Bye Bye Burgos, Hello Bannister

by Freneau on Dec 6, 2006 12:18 AM EST in Kansas City Royals News

Ambiorix, we hardly knew ye.

And now, someone else, alot of people actually, can work on learning how to spell your name, 'cause we're done with it.

Your unique name is gone now, sacrificed to the fates as the bizarre Minaya-Moore challenge trade rivalry heats up. We all remember where we were when we heard the Gotay-Keppinger trade news. Now, this. All part of the master plan to get older I guess.

According to ESPN, its a done deal.

Links

Bannister at ESPN.
Bannister at Baseball-Reference
Bannister at the Baseball Cube

In a weird way, this reminds me of the fabled/loathed Howell-Gathright trade. Like Howell, Burgos is somebody else's baby ($1 Jackson Browne royalties fund) and Dayton has no emotional or professional stock in seeing him become something interesting. Bannister, like Gathright, may not mean much in the long-term, but is something of a known quality.

Now granted, I don't fully buy either premise of the Gathright-Bannister comparision: Gathright is a known bad quality that arguably made the Royals worse the second he appeared. Moreover, I don't think he has any upside, but... lots of people do. Fair enough. I do think Bannister's a potential innings guy who may not be horrible. Maybe.

Really, it comes down to innings. Best case scenario, Burgos goes insane and posts a 2.80 ERA in 60 innings with the Mets someday. I'll take the roughly equal chance that Bannister posts a 5.00 ERA in 180 innings.

Plus, he's Floyd Bannister's son. So he and Buddy should hit it off on the whole legacy thang...

Stepping away from my insane ramblings, his player comment in the 2005 Baseball Prospectus was:

Floyd's son is a command guy who throws a four-pitch assortment for strikes and has the usual adjectives?savvy, gutsy, etc.?floating around him. It's all air until he proves he can get older hitters out, and his stint at Double-A wasn't encouraging. He could eventually be a back-end starter, but the development path is going to be long. Bannister is one of two scions who played at St. Lucie last year; first baseman Brett Harper hits a bit like his dad, the Twins' catcher, did.

Interestingly, before this last season, PECOTA predicted that 2007 would be his career year, when, at the age of 26 he would post a 6-7 record with a 4.55 ERA in 106 innings.

Heading into 2006 his top comparables were: Dan Murray, Don Aase, Dickie Noles, Justin Miller and Bobby Rodgers. However further down the list Tomo Ohka and Kelvim Escobar show up. And at least you've heard of them.

What do you think?

Original Diary on Burgos by "All Shook Down" here.

As for Burgos... well, he carried a cumulative ERA of 6.53 or higher around for nearly two months last season, and finished with a 5.52 ERA. Now, supposedly he has good stuff, and he is young (pitchers stay young until their about 37 apparently, by the way) being 22 so maybe the Mets have hope. I don't think I'll miss him much, although I also don't blame him for his failures, considering the Royals basically promoted him straight from A-ball back in 2005 (ok, he did throw 12 innings at AA).

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Comments

Okay...when the dust settles....

The rotation should be...

Odie...
Hudson....
De La Rosa...
Bannister..
Bautista...

That leaves Runny out of luck and Greinke in Omaha ...maybe with Runny and Wright.

The bullpen group looks like

Nelson
Peralta
Gobble
Wellemeyer
Ray
Braun
Duckworth
Sisco

We could use an experienced closer.

by grudz69 on Dec 6, 2006 12:39 AM EST reply actions

I like that rotation if we get Batista

but I hope we don't at 25M. Leave room for Grienke to come up in June and throw in Wright, Ducky, Gobble, whoever until then. That gives us some depth if Rosie fails.

by chukar on Dec 6, 2006 1:20 AM EST up reply actions

I don't get the criticism of hos numbers by BP

His 05 AA was 1.08 whip with 2.6 era, consistent with overall solid numbers in minors. Certainly looks qualified to compete for back end of our rotation and eat some innings, which is more valuable than Burgos.

by chukar on Dec 6, 2006 12:50 AM EST reply actions

I just read on A's Nation...

they think we got a good deal from the Mets and it sounds like they aren't to thrilled about Milledge.

I still think Moore has a few surprises up his sleeve. Rule 5 and AAAA candidates.... S.T. should be interesting.

by grudz69 on Dec 6, 2006 12:55 AM EST reply actions

Latest is Sanders for Rodrigo Lopez from O's

if we don't do Batista. That would be about a wash in salary, we'd be rid of Reggie and wouldn't have the risky commitment to a 36 year old pitcher. Lopez has won 14 or more three times in 5 years but was terrible even by Royals standards last year. Maybe Mazzone unnerved him. They're also considering Brown instead of Sanders.

by chukar on Dec 6, 2006 1:42 AM EST reply actions

Bannister not a lock

Don't lock Bannister in the rotation just yet. I've seen him pitch a few times and he's slightly better than Fat Elvis and slightly worse than Grienke. Bannister's stuff is so-so but he controls it and pitches to contact. He probably has as much of a shot to be the long man out of the bullpen with a few spot starts mixed in as being in the rotation. But, if I'm not mistaken, he has at least one option left so he could start the year in AAA and "provide depth". Either way it's probably a good trade, an electric arm that can't throw strikes for a so-so arm who's always around the plate and it relieves KC of 25 blown saves.

Eric Conley "If a tie is like kissing your sister then losing is like kissing your grandmother with her teeth out." George Brett

by EricConley on Dec 6, 2006 8:44 AM EST reply actions

Really shows . . .

the need for a good if not great defense. BB will not strike many out, hitters will put the ball in play and our D has to execute.

I like the plan.

by OmahaCastle on Dec 6, 2006 9:16 AM EST reply actions

I'm going to play devil's advocate

and say Bannister for Burgos will prove to be a mistake. Yes, Burgos has not yet arrived, but I honestly think he will be an effective closer one day - probably sooner than we think. My reasoning? He was rushed by the Royals to an EXTREME level. (Only a handful of games above A ball prior to being promoted)

Bannister may prove to be serviceable (although projecting him into the rotation ahead of Greinke is simply ridiculous, IMHO), but I don't see much of an upside to him - he's already 26. Burgos, on the other hand, has FAR MORE POTENTIAL.

This is not the sort of trade a team building for 2009 or 2010 should be making. I guess the rationale by DM is summed up in a statement he made in a KC Star article this morning - he basically said he doesn't want to have a losing season ever again. Not sure that is realistic given:
A) The starting point he is working from
B) The budgetary constraints of KC
and
C) The system in place for MLB

I sure hope I'm wrong - I am just concerned he would prefer to get the team to 500 at the cost of actually contending in the future.

Perhaps he thinks he can do both! If he can, then I will start referring to him as Annie Sullivan, GM - because he would be the new Miracle Worker.

by loyal2s dad on Dec 6, 2006 9:17 AM EST reply actions

It's risky no doubt

since Burgos is higher upside, but I think it's very doubtful that he will master control of his split finger, which allows hitters to sit on his fastball and which he also doesn't control well enough to keep out of middle of the plate. Remember how many times he got rocked while throwing 96, especially by lefties.

I like this move because we need depth with starters with the uncertainty of all our prospects, and this is a guy that will hopefully (agree it's not a lock) hold down the back end right away. Risk worth taking IMHO.

by chukar on Dec 6, 2006 9:30 AM EST up reply actions

I guess I should comment on Lopez

Lopez is OK, I guess - and I certainly like this proposed trade better than the Burgos-Bannister deal.

Naturally, I would prefer to give up Sanders instead of Brown, but I really gotta say Baltimore is right on insisting they want Brown, not Sanders.

Perhaps a compromise would be they have to take both for Lopez, and they throw in a Grade B prospect back to us, while we eat a portion of Sanders' contract.

by loyal2s dad on Dec 6, 2006 9:20 AM EST reply actions

Interesting point

if DM pulls off these two moves, does it mean Greinke is under more serious consideration to be the closer than I think he is?

While I think he would do a good job in that role, I honestly think it would be a mistake. You always want your best five arms to be in the rotation to maximize their contribution, and n=in my opinion there is no doubt he is one of KC's top five arms.

by loyal2s dad on Dec 6, 2006 9:23 AM EST reply actions

"Dayton has know emotional"

Yes, I'm anal.

You can feel free to delete this comment and tell me to f' off if you don't care about the typo.

by marbotty on Dec 6, 2006 11:06 AM EST reply actions

thanks for catching that...

by Freneau on Dec 6, 2006 12:22 PM EST up reply actions

Burgos is absolutly horrible

Easily Moore's best move of the off season. Every Royals fan was sick to their stomach everytime Burgos took the field. Whether he was thrown in to the situation or not isn't the point, the point is that he didnt preform. Why all of a sudden are Royals fans questioning Dayton Moore? This city has been begging for someone to go out and spend some money, and now Moore(coming from a postion in Atlanta where he was working with the Braves during the glory years)is in KC and making some moves.
Royals fans should have know that the youth movement was over with the signings of Reggie Sanders,Doug Mientkiewicz, Mark Grudzielanek among others. Youth movement is out for now until the Royals become a decent team where the youth actually want to come.
Angel Berroa is a huge disappointment
Estaban German and Emil Brown are some of the only youth worth anything anymore.
Why is Mike Sweeny so horrible? How many games will he play this season? 60 if he's lucky? He gets paid more than Torrii Hunter.... can anyone believe that?! It doesnt help that everyone in Kansas City thinks he's the greatest.
Bottom Line- Dayton Moore has done pretty dog on good this offseason considering what he has to work with. AL Central will still be difficult as always with the Indians signing Ballducci and Detroit coming off their monster season. It wil be fun to see this next season though boys and girls, the royals may not loose a 100 games this season. haha funny thought---remember Ken Harvey? what ever happened to him?

All Midwest

by MidwestBaseballFever on Dec 6, 2006 4:27 PM EST reply actions