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Royals set coaching staff for 2008

The coaching staff for 2008 has now been set:

MANAGER  Trey Hillman
Hitting Coach  Mike Barnett
Pitching Coach  Bob McClure
First Base Coach  Rusty Kuntz
Third Base Coach  Luis Silverio
Bench Coach  Dave Owen
Bullpen Coach  John Mizerock

I'm disappointed that most of our coaching staff will remain similar to that in years' past.  One of the reasons Royals fans have been so defiantly faithful to "GMDM" is his literal carrying out of the "Fire Everyone" campaign of 2006 - bringing in competent men from another successful organization (ATL) and firing the incompetent ones under the Baird regime.  McClure did a decent job working and improving our young pitchers in 2007; however, I'm of the belief that most of our 1+ ERA improvement falls on the shoulders of Dayton Moore, who brought in pitchers with good track records (Riske, Meche, Bannister, and Soria to an extent).  Moore made his emphases of pitching well-known last season.

My knowledge of John Mizerock is limited (other than his brief tenure as interim manager and reputation as a not-very-nice guy).  I'm skeptical he will do as good of a job with our bullpen as last year.  He has been with the organization since the mid-1990s, overseeing our unbelievably bad bullpens of 1997 (or so) through 2006.  If the key to a successful ballclub is an efficient bullpen, Mizerock is certainly not a good start.

Mike Barnett, who guided the Royals through a pathetic offensive performance last season, inexplicably gets retained.  Here are but a few of the Royals offensive statistics from 2007:

.261 BA (11/14)
.322 OBP (13/14)
.388 SLG (14/14)
102 HR (14/14)
706 RS (13/14)
660 RBI (14/14)

If we are to improve our offensive in 2008 (or find better ways to manufacture and score runs, as Hillman emphasizes), results like these simply cannot be repeated.  The Royals lack of patience and complete dropoff in power ultimately falls back to the hands of Mike Barnett.  His being retained is a poor move by Dayton Moore.

Luis Silverio, in turn, was a mediocre at best third base coach who is now going back to the position he held from 2005-06.  I'm sure we'll see plenty of baserunning blunders on the left half of the infield next season.

The purpose of this diary is to get the RR faithful's thoughts on the newbies (Owen & Kuntz) and our previous organizational men (McClure, Barnett, et al).

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If managers are of little importance (2-3 wins)
...then how important could lesser coaches be?  I'm just saying...
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Oct 23, 2007 5:30 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Theoretically
A hitting coach or pitching coach who is extremely bad, very charismatic and has more power and influence over the players than the manager might be worse than a bad manager.  But, in the least, that seems pretty uncommon and unlikely.
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Oct 24, 2007 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Crap... I wanted Barnett's ass to follow Fuddo
out the door.  I am really shocked by his retention.  Unless he blamed all our hopeless offense on Fuddo.  But then if these guys don't matter we are stuck with the same bunch of whiffers as we had last year.  CRAP....

by grudz69 on Oct 23, 2007 5:50 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm just baffled that
Mike Barnett gets to keep his job. Our offesive approach was terrible last season and you cannot blame that all on Buddy Bell. I'm sure he's on a very short leash and will probably get canned early next season, but I'd rather start the 2008 season with a fresh hitting coach. How about a certain Mr. Seitzer? I'm kind of upset Fred Kendall is gone. He seemed to do a nice job as bullpen coach and he seemed to be a great compliment to McClure. I have to say that I'm thrilled that we don't have to watch Brian Poldberg giving red lights to everybody at third next year. He was just downright awful. I do agree that Luis Silverio may not be much better though. But, the best thing about this coaching staff is our pitching coach returning. He's quietly one of the better pitching coaches out there right now. It will be great to have him back. I don't really know who Dave Owen is. But, I'd bet he's either someone from the Braves organization or a friend of Hillman.

by royaldaddy on Oct 23, 2007 5:53 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Owen
Is Hillman's bench coach in Japan.

by doublestix on Oct 23, 2007 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That makes sense
I just learned that he is also Spike Owen's brother and that he played like 7 games for the Royals in 1988.

by royaldaddy on Oct 23, 2007 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

3rd base coach
At least we don't have the Indians third base coach
Let the losers worry about losin'

by ksuroyal on Oct 23, 2007 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rusty Kuntz:
better or worse name than Chiefs coach Dick Curl?

by raefzilla on Oct 23, 2007 6:11 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Rusty Kuntz
Let the losers worry about losin'

by ksuroyal on Oct 23, 2007 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hitting coaches and pitching coaches
Should they really get fired based on the performance of the players?  How much do they deserve the credit or the blame for the hitting and pitching?  Last year the offense did pretty well.  This year, it stunk.  Did Barnett do a good job last year and a bad job this year?  Last year the pitching was awful and this year it was pretty good.  Did McClure do a horrible job last year and a good job this year?  McClure got a full season of Meche, Bannister, Soria and Greinke this year.  I think that accounts for a lot of the pitching improvement.  I have no idea how much of it is him.  Do any of us?

I'm not saying Barnett is good or bad.  Same with McClure.  I'm just saying that the love for McClure and the Barnett bashing sounds like standard fan knee-jerk reactions.  If Player X, or Coach X or Manager X had a bad year in the most recent season, then he sucks, get rid of him.  If it was a good year, then he's great, keep him!  Seems a little facile, no?

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Oct 23, 2007 6:13 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

It is precisely that kind of
level-headed and logical talk that is going to get you banned from the more enjoyable knee-jerk kiddie pool/end of the bar.  Your incessant reasoning is causing me to question all my boiler-plate comments for validity.  Oh sure, talk of this year and that year....but don't forget, it is the grittiness of a manager that really matters.

by kjfinkes on Oct 23, 2007 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hackfest 2007 - Buddy or Barnett?
For me to really have an opinion about Barnett I would need to know who was responsible for the hack approach to batting that dominated last season.  I know Buddy was quoted a few times regarding being aggressive at the plate.  I think the lack of plate patience was the core problem with the Royals offense last year, particularly for Teahen, German, Pena and Gordon.  

Who was pushing the Berroaesque hack-at-anything-that-moves philosophy last year?  Buddy or Barnett?  If it was Barnett I think he needs to be where young baseball players are not.

by James Quinn on Oct 24, 2007 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hackfest 2007 - The ugly numbers
In 2007 the Royals team BB/K ratio was 428/1069.  A 2.50 ratio.  That is bedrock bad.

The Royals ranked 13 out of 14 in walks, and 13 out of 14 in OBP in the AL.  I suspect hackapalozza also strongly contributed to the Royals finishing 14 out of 14 in slugging percentage.  They were swinging at anything they could make contact with, not forcing pitchers to throw balls that could be driven.

What do you get for hacking away?  Theoretically more base hits.  And I guess this worked as the Royals were not in the league basement in terms of batting average.  They finished 11 out of 14.  Cold comfort there.

I won't be happy if Hillman bunts a lot next year, but as long as he promotes plate discipline he will compare favorably to Bell.

by James Quinn on Oct 24, 2007 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hack hack bunt hack sit
Royals hit into the second most double plays last year.  

They saw the fewest pitches in the AL.  On average less than 3.7 pitches per plate apperance.  I was surprise the number wasn't even worse.  No wonder so many "Huh?" starting pitchers went seven, eight or even nine innings against the Royals last year.

But the Royals did finish second in the league in sacrifice hits.  The Rangers actually put down more successful bunts than the Royals (57 vs. 41).  Who knew the Texans were so fond of small ball?  I wonder if the Royals attempted more bunts than did the Rangers?  It seemed like three or four times a week Royals fans had to endure the double frustration of Buddy reflexively calling for a bunt and than watching PenaRightRrueJesusManosaurus not be able to get the ball down.  It isn't just that Buddy called for a lot of bunts and stolen bases, he did so with a team poorly qualified to execute these plays.  If you take away Emil's amazing 12 for 14 performance the Royals were successful only 61% of the time last year in stolen base attempts.

The Royals' "speed team"
German 11 for 18
DeJesus 10 for 14
Gathright 9 for 17

by James Quinn on Oct 24, 2007 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

DANGER-Will Smith!
"We hit it off great," Barnett said. "As far as the offensive side of baseball, we have the same beliefs."
Success is counted sweetest by those who ne'er succeed. - Emily Dickinson

by buddyball on Oct 24, 2007 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Crap,
Well, maybe possibly this means that Barnett didn't like the hacking, but Buddy made the rules.

Or it could mean that Barnett couldn't read Hillman's stone face and had no idea he had already been mentally fired.

Anyone know where I can track down the Ham Fighters team stats during the Hillman era?  Maybe actual information will help clear up some of this.

by James Quinn on Oct 24, 2007 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hard to read and navigate
Japanese Baseball
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 24, 2007 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think their pitching has carried them
"The Fighters finished first in the standings this season with a 79-60-5 record but were last in almost every offensive category including batting average (.259) and home runs (73)."

Anyway, the stats site, doesn't really compile things for you.  This site looks like it has spreadsheet data which would make it easier to calculate things in relation to league averages and such: http://baseballguru.com/jalbright/stats.html

I don't have Excel on this computer though.

by mazoboom on Oct 24, 2007 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tracking Japanese stats is harder than bunting
The kid named Yu Darvish who pitched for Hillman was (no doubt) a big reason the Ham Fighters did so well. 207 Inn, 123 hits, 49 BBs, .83 WHIP, 1.84 ERA this year 12 CGs.  Dice who?  Anyway, Hillman sounds like a good coach, and he's Dayton's man.  It's probably not such a bad idea to not change ALL the faces, and let Hillman pick who he wants after he gets a feel for the situation.
Yoda

by Yoda on Oct 24, 2007 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well
My guess is that they had to move on this quickly and Hillman isn't really in a position to choose his whole staff yet.  So he brings his guy across, they get rid of the clear dead weight at 3B and let the rest of the staff ride out another year.

by BlueEyesAustin on Oct 23, 2007 7:07 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

move on this quickly
Not sure - players historically don't start reporting until February at the earliest, which leaves the team with over three months to get someone in there (unless hitting coaches have some sort of offseason responsibilities I'm not aware of.)

Seems like they could have spent an extra day glancing at last season's stat sheet and realized that the Royals were last in the major leagues in HRs, second to last in walks, second to last in SLG, second to last in total bases, and 4th to last in runs scored, and come to the conclusion that perhaps the Hitting Coach was to blame.

If Dayton has faith in the hitting coach, then it must be an indictment of the players.  Maybe this just means Dayton's planning to bring in someone new at SS, 1B, and one or two of the outfield corners.  

Otherwise, we're doomed.

by marbotty on Oct 24, 2007 6:56 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Please
Tell me that our frist base coach is not seriously named Rusty Kuntz, that has to be a typo or something

Also, I like that they brought Mclure back, it seems like all the pitchers liked him and were happy he was back, Barnett's ass shoulda been canned, I remeber when Mizerock was the interim that Sweeney was quoted in the paper as saying how all the guys like him and at the time our captain was pining for Mizerock to be the new manager, and as for the others, they really don't matter that much to me

I may be drunk, but tomorrow I will be sober and you, ma'am, will still be ugly. - Winston Churchill

by fats on Oct 23, 2007 7:07 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Maybe Hillman will have more control
over the offense and Barnett won't matter at all.  If nothing else he can shag balls in the outfield to earn his paycheck.

by grudz69 on Oct 23, 2007 11:38 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I have been wondering
about this exact thing.  One wonders how different this staff would have looked if Hillman wasn't busy with his Japanese team still. One name I would have been interested in as hitting coach was Rudy Jarmillo.  He was the Rangers hitting coach who is apparently looking for work.

by gordonrules on Oct 24, 2007 1:11 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

barnett
the argument to keep mcclure is good enough to retain him.  the opposite is true w/ barnett.  if he had any effect on our hitters, it was surely negative.  no patience, no power, no knowledge of the strike zone.  these are things a hitting coach is supposed to help with, but can't necessarily solve.  fire barnett
pat

by kcisbetterthanstlateverything on Oct 24, 2007 11:18 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

i want to get the sweet first base coach job
which as far as I can tell just means you were boys with someone back in the day

by royalsreview on Oct 24, 2007 12:48 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Also The Vital
First line of defense against shirtless father/son attacks on our national innocence.
Being a fan is irrational, but what is the alternative?

by philofthenorth on Oct 24, 2007 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If Barnett and Hillman have the same
offensive philosophy... then what did we set through last year?  I was hoping for something different than the hackfest of 2007.  But, the glass is half full and thus I will give Hillfire and his staff the benefit of the doubt...at least for now.

by grudz69 on Oct 24, 2007 12:57 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't really have any complaints
I don't know much about the new guys, and I really don't think assistant coaches matter all that much. I guess Barnett is a disappointment, but what great hitting coach is out there? Its not like there are revolutionary guys like Charlie Lau out there. I hear Kevin Seitzer's name, but I have no idea what qualifies him - Arizona scored almost the same number of runs as the Royals, with far better talent, and Seitzer was known for being abrasive and hard to get along with.

Will we have a bench coach? I wouldn't mind if Trey hired someone with some managerial experience to be someone he can bounce ideas off of, and can guide him through the perils of MLB managing. Larry Dierker would be ideal, but even a crappy retread like Buck Martinez or Jim Tracy could fit the bill.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 24, 2007 1:15 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

D'oh
Dave Owen is the bench coach. Missed that. Oh well, if Hillman is comfortable with him in Japan, it makes sense he'd bring him here.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 24, 2007 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Should McClure have been fired after 2006?
I mean, just look at the stats.
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Oct 24, 2007 1:22 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I gotta call you on this comparisson
McClure had roadkill to work with in 2006.  I don't see anyone getting quality out of that staff.  Here is a list of KC pitchers from 2006 who had more than 20 innings that year:

Mark Redman
Runelvys Hernandez
Scott Elarton
Luke Hudson
Odalis Perez
Jorge de la Rosa
Brandon Duckworth
Denny Bautista
Bobby Keppel
Joe Mays
Ambiorix Burgos
Joel Peralta
Jimmy Gobble
Elmer Dessens
Jeremy Affeldt
Mike Wood
Todd Wellemeyer
Joe Nelson
Andrew Sisco
Scott Dohmann

Oh, good times.  good times.

Barnett, on the other hand, oversaw some horrible work by talented players:
Alex Gordon - underachieved to most observers.
Emil Brown - huge regression.
David DeJesus - significant step backwards.
Mark Teahen - power slump all year.
Mike Sweeney - never got on track.
Esteban German - fell from good to acceptable.
Ryan Shealy - almost hacked his way out of baseball.
Jason LaRue - the guy has hit in the past.

The only batters who improved in 2007 were Buck, Butler and Gathright.  And Butler and Gathright were away from Barnett for much of the year.  And what contributed to Butler and Gathright's improvement?  I notice they were two of the few players on the club willing to go against the virtual team dictate and work a count.  And Buck, some have argued poor coaching is what transformed his breakout season to just a marginal improvement.

I think it is much more reasonable to cut McClure some slack than Barnett.  Then again, for all I know the batting problems lie with Buddy, not Barnett.  Unless I find out Barnett was the Hack Doctor I'll just trust Hillman to make the right decision.

Heck, when a team's offense is as bad as KC's was in 2007, someone should fired!  Someone, anyone.  Justice just demands such things.  Maybe this is one way to interpret Buddy's graceful but encouraged exit.

by James Quinn on Oct 24, 2007 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My point is
Simply pointing to the season's hitting or pitching stats doesn't prove that the hitting or pitching coach did well or poorly.  The question is this: how much credit/blame does a hitting or pitching coach deserve?  We really don't know...ever.  Was it Barnett's coaching that led to the hackfest?  Did they hit like that because of him?  Or because of Buddy?  Or because of neither of them.  From what I've read, most hitting coaches do damned little.  They don't teach players how to hit.  To the extent they know that, they know it when they get to the majors and they don't get re-taught.  They do what they do.  Typically hitting coaches will sometimes tweak stances or swings to help get a player out of a slump.

I'm not defending Barnett.  I don't know if he does his job well or poorly or somewhere in between.  I don't think he's particularly important, regardless.  But this mindless "look at the hitting stats; it's Barnett's fault" illogic always rubs me the wrong way.  I'm not saying that is what you are doing, per se, JQ, but there is certainly a lot of that going on here.

Certainly, outrage at Barnett and his retention is silly at best.  We have no idea how relevant he is.  We're only guessing.  I doubt big league hitting coaches do much, nor do they affect much.

Similarly, McClure gets praise heaped on him.  He suddenly has Meche, Bannister, Greinke, Soria and Dotel and amazingly the pitching staff is a lot better.  And he gets credit for that?  Hilarious.  Did he sign or trade for any of those guys?  With better talent you get better results.  Why does he get the credit?

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Oct 24, 2007 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hitting/Pitching Coaches
This exchange has brought a couple questions to mind for me. Keep in mind, I'm not praising nor hating either man. Just like to hear your answers.

1) From what I've read, most hitting coaches do damned little. They don't teach players how to hit. To the extent they know that, they know it when they get to the majors and they don't get re-taught. They do what they do. Typically hitting coaches will sometimes tweak stances or swings to help get a player out of a slump.

Why do hitting coaches ever get fired if they "do damned little" to start with and they don't actually have to teach anything, just tweak a little?

2)I doubt big league hitting coaches do much, nor do they affect much.

Why do we even need one then?

For some reason, those two questions popped into my head right away as I was reading your reply.

 

by MileHighKCfan on Oct 24, 2007 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good questions
I'll answer them in reverse order.
  1. Part of it is tradition.  But I don't think they are entirely useless.  I think they can be helpful here and there in a pretty minor way.  They might give a helpful piece of advice or tweak something that is helpful.  They are a lot like first base coaches.  They don't do much, but tradition says you have to have one.
  2. Even if you damn little, you can do it poorly in someone's eyes.  And if that happens, you get fired.  Or if there is a GM or managerial change, they might just clean house to bring in their own eyes.  Or there might be a change in philosophy.  Or they just might want to bring in someone new when things are going badly in the hopes that change in and of itself can help.
I think there have been some real hitting geniuses like Charlie Lau and Walt Hriniak who have been especially helpful for many players.  But guys like that are, in my opinion, the exception rather than the rule.
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Oct 24, 2007 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Always looking on the bright side, huh Leo?
Still think Dayton Moore is going to leave to be the Atlanta manager?  

You are entertaining, though.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Oct 24, 2007 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Offense indefensible
I would love to see some sort of indicator, anything, that could point to Mike Barnett being the right man to lead the Royals in terms of their hitting. Certainly it wouldn't be last year's numbers, that's for sure. Did he do great things at his previous job? What is it that leads Moore to believe that Barnett is the guy?  

by cookierojas73 on Oct 24, 2007 2:15 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

he's just an in-club guy
who is randomly getting a job

this is not cool

by LeoBloom on Oct 24, 2007 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rusty Kuntz...Rusty Kuntz....
I can't think of a good nickname...
Don't judge me. XOXOXO

by The Mustache of Balboni on Oct 24, 2007 3:12 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Quick glance at the Fighters
Using the stat page referenced above, I came up with a batting average of .259, a team OBP of .307 and a slugging percentage of .359, for an ominous OPS of .666 (ironic, wouldn't you say).  This means one of three things:  1) I've made some considerable math mistakes, but based on what I've heard about their offense, I don't think I am; 2) give this guy a top notch pitching staff, and he'll help you believe you can win; or 3) the 2007 Nippon Ham Fighters are the luckiest sports team EVER.  The OPS, coupled with a 328/972 BB/K ratio (which, if 2.5 is "bedrock bad," a 2.96 ratio must be "molten core bad") makes me think that either Japanese baseball on the whole or Hillman specifically doesn't truly cherish the count-working philosophy.

Maybe just a bad year?  More of the Hillman era:
2004 (Year 2)--476/995, 2.09 (okay, that's not bad)
2005 (Year 3)--349/1151, 3.30 (YIKES!!!)
2006 (Year 4)--335/934, 2.78 (that's Asian Championship Baseball--they didn't just win the Japanese Series, they also won the Asian Series against the best of China, Taiwan, and S.Korea).

An ominous sign?  It may be, but out of context (who around here really followed Japanese baseball that closely until a week ago),  who really knows?  Maybe we should do a similar reconstruction of all of his Yankee minor league teams just to make sure.  I think we may just be so desperate to talk about something that we're making too much out of nothing.  Why don't we let Hillman and his new staff (well, it's new to him) actually coach the team for a little while and let them actually play some games before we adapt our real True. Feelin') Blue. Tradition. of expecting the worst out of anything the David Glass-owned Royals do.

by CentralChamps2009 on Oct 24, 2007 5:51 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Prediction
We'll see the screen name "FireHillman" or some variant there of by May of next year.  This won't be because of strikeouts, walks or another other stat.  It will be because the team will be X games under .500.  And that person -- as well as others -- will hang there hat on some bit of strategy or philosophy or some pitching change to show that he is obviously and idiot.

The beat goes on...

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Oct 24, 2007 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Please correct me if I'm wrong
but your post sort of seems to imply that anyone who called for the firing of our previous manager was in some way an idiot or out of line.  I hope that was not the intention.

I think most, if not all, readers of this site are a lot less finicky then you give credit, and will be willing to stand by Hillman even if he fails to to have a winning first couple of months, provided that he makes smart decisions.  That was where Bell failed.

Sure, there will still be debates about whether the manager should have used Gobble instead of Riske in the 8th, or whatever, but those sort of questions are to be expected, particularly in a loss. It's part of the fun of being a fan.

While Bell was subject to this sort of scrutiny, and indubitably upset people with some of his decisions, this was not the primary reason why people didn't want him to manage the team anymore.  

It was because he endangered his pitchers by letting them throw too many pitches, or because he didn't give young players a chance, or because he almost always assembled his starting rotation from the worst possible candidates, or because of those candidates he would stick with his worst performers (Lima, Redman, Elarton all come to mind) well beyond what would be considered reasonable to do so, or because he favored defense over offense (e.g. Larue over Buck, Minky over anybody, T. Long over anybody) even when it was painfully obvious that we needed to score more runs and the supposed defensive gains sometimes didn't actually exist.  

These weren't tactical in-game decisions that a person could point to as a problem after the fact.  These were deeply flawed strategic decisions that most reasonable people could see were mistakes far in advance.

The fact that Bell's in-game decisions were so laughable (e.g. pinch running Huber, then pinch hitting Pena a batter later) just added fuel to the fire.

----

With Hillman, we have a manager that has taken bad teams and turned them into champions.   With Bell, we have a manager that has taken several bad teams, and made them worse, sometimes historically so.  

Provided Hillman makes smart strategic decisions, I don't think people are going to give up on him if we have a losing record through May, even if he makes a tactical error from time to time.  

by marbotty on Oct 25, 2007 4:14 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I thought Bell was conservative on pitch counts
With perhaps 1-2 exceptions in September, I don't remember anybody passing 120 pitches in a start.  Bell was no Dusty Baker.

by jbrocato on Oct 25, 2007 8:40 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

that was one of the things i liked about Bell
Although he really rode hard Meche and Bannister this year... Meche ended up being the #11 most abused pitcher in the ML this year.  

Meche surpassed 120 pitches twice, and around half of his games were for 110 pitches or more.  It probably won't be a career ender, but why take chances?  

The September 24th game, where Meche through 124 pitches was especially egregious, considering it was evident they weren't playing for anything at that point.

by marbotty on Oct 25, 2007 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My opinion
I have spoken to the issue of Bell as a manager many times.  I won't revisit it.  I think that the reaction of the vast majority of any team's fans to its manager is based almost entirely on the W/L record.  If the team is winning, he's doing a good job.  If the team is losing, he stinks.  There are always things to quibble about.  If the team is winning, those things are minor side points.  If the team is losing, those things are proof that the manager is an incompetent boob.

If the team is losing next year, Hillman will get bashed.  There will be a grace period.  But the only question in my mind is will it be one month or two months.  If the Royals underperform expectations, most fans will call for Hillman's head.  It is as predictable as the tides.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Oct 25, 2007 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

okay
 I think that the reaction of the vast majority of any team's fans to its manager is based almost entirely on the W/L record.

Fair enough.

by marbotty on Oct 25, 2007 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't want to do the work
But I think we have to compare it to the rest of the league to see how big a deal it is.  But they did rely on their pitching. By all accounts Darvish is amazing.

Anyway, runs scored: 526
Runs allowed: 489 (464 earned)

Pythagorean Win%: .533
Actual Win%: .549 (with ties)

The exponent should probably be different because a different amount of games. But close enough.

by mazoboom on Oct 24, 2007 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for posting this.
It is not very encouraging.

I hope the Royals show more plate disipline next year, but Hillman's recent past does not indicate this is one of his values.

Hillman did describe himself as an advocate of "big inning" baseball before he went to Japan.  Big inning baseball is all about working the count, drawing walks, and forcing pitchers to give in.  

We're getting conflicting information about Hillman.  We'll just have to see how it plays out next year I guess.

by James Quinn on Oct 24, 2007 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't worry yet
I think the mazoboom's point is relevant--all of Japanese ball could be small-ball oriented, so you'll have sacrificing, running, swinging to protect runners, etc., that you would not see as much of in MLB.  If so, then Hillman's simply adjusted his team's philosophy so they do it better than anybody else.

Hillman sounds like he's gonna coach what he has, so if Dayton signs a masher or two and Gordon and Butler develop a lot in year two, he'll play for the big hits.  If not, then he'll play small ball and rely on the pitching staff.  Again, let's wait until something's happening to be coached until we start taking positions on the coaching.  Until then (and even after then), what the front office does with the roster over the next three months is far more important.

by CentralChamps2009 on Oct 25, 2007 2:26 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed.
Hillman doesn't sign any of his hitters, he certainly doesn't hit for them,and yet he is gunning for his 2nd championship.  So what do we want, good stats or hardware?
Yoda

by Yoda on Oct 24, 2007 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Big Inning Baseball
Is Biblical, as in the first words of Genesis.
Being a fan is irrational, but what is the alternative?

by philofthenorth on Oct 24, 2007 9:32 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

oooh, that's bad
I think the encouraging thing is that Hillman went to Japan talking Big Innings and adapted to his team and their strengths, and won.  That would be a refreshing change for the Boys in Blue.
Success is counted sweetest by those who ne'er succeed. - Emily Dickinson

by buddyball on Oct 25, 2007 12:14 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Jack's beanstalk is sold.
It will take a while for it to be a done deal...but, I can see the light of retirement at the end of a short tunnel.  

by grudz69 on Oct 25, 2007 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Small Ball v Big Inning
Is playing it safe v taking risks. The better the team, the better big innings look. Then again, if you give the out to get favorable position on the bases, what does it matter if your hitters suck? What is  the breakeven point?
Being a fan is irrational, but what is the alternative?

by philofthenorth on Oct 25, 2007 12:46 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I think it is four latitudes south of the
line of demarcation.  I would take any point as long as it has some semblance of reality in it.

by grudz69 on Oct 25, 2007 12:44 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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