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Trade Market - The Pitchers

For the second part of my look at the trade market and how it applies to our Kansas City Royals, I will focus on pitching.  The Royals are only one of 30 other teams that are looking for both starting and relief pitching.   Our trade bait remains the same:  DDJ, Buckner, Lubanski, Huber, Costa, Peralta, Gobble.  The FA market is a little iffy, Carlos Silva for 5/55 anyone?  Didn't think so.  Also to make matters more complicated, what do the Royals need?  Is it a front line starting pitcher (an ace) or depth in the back of the rotation?  If they move Soria to the rotation, who will close?  Personally, Greinke looks poised for a breakout season and maybe Hochevar can join him at the top of the rotation for the next 4 to 5 years.  This would leave Meche as our #3 starter with Bannister #4 and Davies #5.  However that is the rose colored glasses view, the other perspective is we have a lot of mid-range talent (#2, 3, 4 starters), but no ace.  Which side will win?  Only time will tell, but regardless of what happens, GMDM is going to acquire some pitching this offseason.  In this article, we will look at veteran starters, and up and comers, who could make a difference.  

Veteran Starters
Righties:
1.) Mark Prior - 2007: Injured did not play.  At this point, no word has been made if the Cubs will offer him arbitration, so he could be a FA at this writing.  He presents the most upside in the trade market.  His career has played out much like Chris Carpenter's, ace like potential, but he's only on the mound every other year.  The Cubs have been very patient with him and I expect him to remain with the team, but if he could be had this would be worth pursuing.  

2.) Rich Harden - 2007 Stats: 1-2 2.45 ERA 27 K/11BB in 25.2 IP Signed through 2008 for 4.5 mil with a 7 mil club option for 2009.  Much like Prior in that he's an ace when healthy, but he so seldom is that you forget how good he can be.  I could see the A's parting with him as I think they will be big sellers this winter.  Drawback: Both he and Prior would come at a steep price, would it be worth it?  

3.) Erwin Santana - 2007 stats: 7-14 5.75 ERA 125 K/58BB in 150 IP Under team control for 3 more years, he is the most attractive and attainable option of the three.  His MLB performance has been inconsistent, but his minor league track record is solid and he could be a nice mid-rotation pitcher for years to come.  The Angels also seem to have grown frustrated with the inconsistency.  The Angels seem to need DH, 3B, and a little OF help, perhaps Huber and Lubanski for him?  

Lefties:
1.) Chris Capuano - 2007 stats: 5-12 5.10 ERA 132K/54BB in 150 IP Arb eligible through 2009.  He is coming off of an offseason, and seems to have fallen out of favor with the Brewers.  The Royals seem to have an interest in a lefty who could be consistent and Capuano fits that profile.  The Brewers desperately need relievers and defensive specialists.  

2.) Noah Lowry - 2007 Stats:  14-8 3.98 ERA 87K/87BB in 150 IP.  Signed through 2008 and 2009 for 6.75 mil with a club option for 2010 of 6.25 mil.  He has the most upside and a successful MLB track record.  Drawback:  The Giants are rebuilding and will be asking a lot as he is one of their most valuable trading chips.  
3.) Zach Duke - 2007 stats:  3-8 5.53 ERA 41 K/25BB in 107.1 IP.  He will be under team control until 2011.  The Pirates have no need to part with him and would be selling low to do so, but he might benefit from a change of scenery.  His stellar rookie season has been followed by two mediocre seasons.  Drawback:  Our teams don't match up well due to being in very similar situations.

Up and Coming Talent:
1.) Phillip Humber (Mets)
2.) Kevin Slowey (Twins)
3.) Anthony Reyes (Cardinals)
4.) Hayden Penn (Orioles)
5.) Hong Chih Kuo (Dodgers)

Again, I tried to keep these trade possibilities as realistic as possible, so no Johan Santana to the Royals for Justin Huber, Joe Nelson and a bucket of baseballs.  If only that would work!  Pitching is a much more complicated issue due to our developing young talent and lack of any glaring weakness.  Compound this with the fact that every major league team is looking for it, the decision making process has to be difficult for GMDM and staff.   For the sake of this exercise and to simplify things, Soria will remain in the bullpen.  What starter do we get? Well, it depends if you are a glass half-full or half-empty type of person.  

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so I am curious...
In what area and stats of Zack Greinke's professional career that shows that he even belongs to the TOR? Did he ever pitch over 200IP? Did he ever even last a whole season without creating any issue? So he is going to have a breakout year and suddenly with Hochevar who did not even have good numbers in the minors are going to be the ace and #2?

Until the day Greinke can finish off a season without any problem,Greinke is not a TOR guy in my book.

And Hochevar? Please give me a break. What did he do to even deserve a spot in the rotation? He has to earn a spot as no 5 first. Being the number#1 draft pick does not guarantee you anything in MLB.  

by andrewt on Nov 10, 2007 3:18 AM EST reply actions  

Hmmmm...
What Grienke showed me was that he can turn the corner. He showed me that he is still dominating. He showed me that he hasn't forgotten how to throw pitches at 25 different speeds in one game!!!

Now on to Hochevar.... I had thought that someone on this site said Hochevar was not allowed to throw his 4 seam or slider in the minors this year, but was allowed to at the MLB level. That was cited, if I remember correctly here on royalsreview.com from mlb.com. Someone jump in on this one if you saw it too.

When he pitched for us in september this year he looked sharp. Not like he got rocked at AA.

Just my 2 cents.

-- Royals Delegate to the land of the Salmon and Moose (Seattle)

by RoyalsFanInMarinerTown on Nov 10, 2007 3:35 AM EST up reply actions  

True
He was limited to only a few of his pitches in the minors so as to work on his mechanics, but when he got called up was given free range of all his pitches
I may be drunk, but tomorrow I will be sober and you, ma'am, will still be ugly. - Winston Churchill

by fats on Nov 10, 2007 11:55 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm saying it's possible
and for what it's worth, I believe Greinke can be a top of the rotation guy.  Also that was the rose colored glasses version, it still might not happen.  Both Greinke and Hochevar looked dominating in their late season performance.  It's a small sample size, but it does give hope for the future.  

by lordbyronk on Nov 10, 2007 6:25 AM EST up reply actions  

The Royals have little depth...
...in their minor or major league teams so upgrading at one spot is just going to degrade another area. Ie. is there an alternative to DDJ in center field?    Sure, having 4 years left on his contract at a paltry 1 mil a year makes Dayton Moore look pretty attractive to another club (say the Dodgers or Giants) but who can you replace him with?

If Grudz picks up his option for '08 (I don't know, has he?) I would try to trade him to Cleveland for Chuckie Lofgren and one of their power corners who's stalled in their system.  Then if Peralta is willing to move to 3rd they can move Asdrobal to SS and Blake to LF, put Barfield in the minors for a year and the Indians get what they need to put them over the hump.  Pretty iffy, but what the hey.

Yoda

by Yoda @ Royals Review on Nov 10, 2007 9:27 AM EST reply actions  

Better yet
Instead of the corner infield prospect from the Indians, get Ben Francisco.  He isn't good enough to play for the Indians this year, but he is certainly good enough to start for the Royals in LF.
Yoda

by Yoda @ Royals Review on Nov 10, 2007 9:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Grudzielanek will be back
I think he was extended on the day Bell's resignation was announced.

by jbrocato on Nov 10, 2007 10:03 AM EST up reply actions  

DeJesus and Grudz
DeJesus is a valuable trade commodity.  And he could fairly easily be replaced in CF by Teahen.  I love the idea.  If we can get an upgrade, then we should definitely do it.  But I prefer trading him for a position player.

Grudz exercised his option in August.

Ben Francisco looks like young Emil Brown to me.

I probably disagree with you.

by Scott McKinney on Nov 10, 2007 11:06 AM EST up reply actions  

LOL
Ok, enough with the Emil Brown stuff.  Who is Teahen replaced by then?
Yoda

by Yoda @ Royals Review on Nov 10, 2007 11:13 AM EST up reply actions  

A couple possibilities
  1. DeJesus is traded for a corner OFer.  Teahen to CF, the new guy to RF.
  2. DeJesus is traded for some other player.  Teahen to CF.  FA acquisition to RF.
I probably disagree with you.

by Scott McKinney on Nov 10, 2007 11:30 AM EST up reply actions  

Well, I think Teahen can handle CF
Assuming you can trade or pay for a corner OF who is an upgrade over DeJesus:
  1. Teahen has to learn yet another position.
  2. Who leads off now?  DeJesus is currently in that spot, right?
Also, who do you think someone would offer for DeJesus?  The only guys that I see are Matt Diaz and  Kevin Mench.  That's not a big (or special) list.  
Yoda

by Yoda @ Royals Review on Nov 10, 2007 1:44 PM EST up reply actions  

DeJesus, Teahen and CF
Yes, Teahen would have to move to CF.  I don't think the move from LF to CF is a radical change.  I think he has the skill set to do it.  I don't think it is much of a stretch for him.

There are a number of leadoff possibilities.  All I really want in a leadoff hitter is some good OBP.  Speed and baserunning skills help.  Teahen could lead off.  When German is playing, he could lead off.  When Gathright is playing, he could lead off.  On most days, the top of the lineup could look like this:

Teahen
Grudz
Butler
Gordon
New corner OFer

As far as offers for DeJesus, that's hard to say.  Clearly he is much, much more valuable than Mench or Diaz.  DeJesus has good value as a proven player with some good seasons under his belt, good defense, consistently good OBP, speed on the basepaths (admittedly with little SB production).  There has been speculation that the Dodgers are willing to trade Matt Kemp and would like a youngish veteran with a cheap contract.  MLBtraderumors accurately noted that DeJesus fits that profile.  I've been hoping for a DeJesus, Gobble, Huber for Kemp and a throw-in trade.  Of course I don't know how LA would feel about that.  Other teams need/want a CFer.  I'd shop him and see what I could get.

I probably disagree with you.

by Scott McKinney on Nov 10, 2007 2:21 PM EST up reply actions  

No way we get Harden
Chris Capuano could be a decent pickup. The Brewers also have Claudio Vargas who could become available.

How bout Pittsburgh's Paul Maholm? Would he get eaten alive by the AL?

I've always like Cincy's Matt Belisle.

The Cubs Sean Marshall could become available.

Cliff Lee was terrible last year, but maybe he could resurrect his career here.

Lots of people have mentioned Florida's Scott Olson, but I am not a fan.

I've heard some Braves fans sour on Chuck James. Could he become available?

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Nov 10, 2007 5:37 PM EST reply actions  

can we dump davies then?
too many former braves

by RoyalsLuv on Nov 11, 2007 12:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Don't cut the cord on Davies now
Yes, his MLB track record is bad.  Yes, he was terrible for the Royals for half a season.  But dumping Davies now would be a huge mistake.  Dayton Moore acquired Davies because of his potential, and he needs at least one more full season audition for the Royals big league club before we can possibly evaluate whether that poential will be fulfilled.  Consider the following - Davies is only 24 years old.  Two years ago, he was rated by BA as the Braves #2 pitching prospect in a loaded system.  Although he got shelled last year, Davies showed me that he possesses a mid-90's fastball, hard 12-6 curve, power slider, and a workable changeup.  Davies may not be a top prospect any more, but his repertoire is a MLB-starter worthy, and the Royals have to be willing to work with him in the hopes that he develops into the solid starter that so many envisioned. Davies main issue is a lack of command, which I admit is a huge problem but not insurmountable.  Even if he doesn't pan out as a starter, Davies could end up being an effective middle-reliever.

In any case, he's a potential asset and I see no reason why the Royals should cut him loose now.

"I'm tired of all these stupid a$$ questions every day. Why the f**k would I hit Brett for Miller?" The rest is history.

by DC Royal on Nov 11, 2007 3:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Agree with you
He is too young to give up on.  Reminds me of McGowan 18 months ago.
Yoda

by Yoda @ Royals Review on Nov 11, 2007 4:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Davies
has been inconsistent at the MLB level, but he's got too much talent and is too young to give up on.  I think McGowan is a good comparison.  I still believe his upside is of a #3 starter, he just hasn't shown it yet.  

by lordbyronk on Nov 11, 2007 5:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Or good reliever
In many starts, he did well for the first 3 or 4 innings.  If he never puts it together as a starter, he could well make a good setup man.
I probably disagree with you.

by Scott McKinney on Nov 11, 2007 6:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Like the idea of Davies in bullpen
I see a young guy only 23 with good stuff with was rushed to the minors with too high of expectations.  Davies has strong stuff when he is on.  Yes, control is an issue but that is true of most young guys.  He seemed to have most trouble in 5-6th inning - or 3rd time through the lineup.  A 2-3 inning long reliever might be just what he needs to build his confidence.  

by daveyork on Nov 13, 2007 6:18 PM EST up reply actions  

+1
I'm also all for Davies in the Duckworth long relief role.  He seemed to get along okay for a few innings, and then just blow up--less innings at a time gives him less of a chance of that happening.  He's had a pretty good winter in the Dominican League throwing about 4 innings at a time.  His ERA's in the 3's right now due to a single bad game, but he's generally been on--they've given him the most innings of anybody on the team so far (about 22).

by CentralChamps2009 on Nov 13, 2007 10:22 PM EST up reply actions  

If Dayton picks up Olsen
I think we can put the fears about religin dictating his choices to bed.

by Freneau on Nov 10, 2007 7:43 PM EST up reply actions  

maybe
Dayton is trying to pull him back over to the good side.

by wildthang on Nov 13, 2007 8:33 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah
it's easier to convert the sinners if they work for you (albeit illegal)

by marbotty on Nov 14, 2007 4:09 AM EST up reply actions  

Jonathan Sanchez
From the Giants...I would really like him.

My #1 lefty though would be Joe Saunders from the Angels, but I doubt we could get him.

by doublestix on Nov 11, 2007 5:39 PM EST reply actions  

I too like Saunders,
but I felt like Santana might be more easily attained.  Sanchez is an intriguing prospect.  

by lordbyronk on Nov 11, 2007 5:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Theonly free agent pitching that would interest me
are the "buy low" high potential guys like Jason Jennings.  Last year, he was traded for Jason Hirsh, Taylor Bucholz and Willy Taveras.  Hirsh was the #1 prospect in Astros system at the time.  He has proven he can pitch in Colorado and is a competitor.  Health is an issue but if he was healthy, Jennings would be a 12-15 million guy.  

by daveyork on Nov 13, 2007 6:21 PM EST reply actions  

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