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Winter Meetings Day One Open Thread

The fun starts now.

Oh to be an ex-jock or an Ivy Leaguer and in the employ of a baseball team this weekend. The rumors, the cell phones, the random player and second wife appearances, the hotel bar, whispers in the lobby, the vague internet rumors, and on and on. Ah, Nashville! Oh, Nashville!

Of course, we'll be here all December long on Royals Review, leeching of the coverage of the professionals and providing knee-jerk reaction to the moves as they come in. As you did last year, I hope you make RR one of your regular internet stops during the Winter Meetings.

Last year, we were all caught unawares by the Gil Meche signing, which quickly became one of the stories of the winter. The Meche signing was quickly followed with a string of lesser deals, including the snagging of Dotel, who for almost a full month was the living embodiment of Royal Pride. Meanwhile, some guy named Soria became the steal of the Rule 5, I'm sorry, the "Rule V Draft".

  • Unlike the Meche blindside, I believe we've entered Year Two of the Guillen-to-KC rumors, or perhaps it just seems that way. For an excellent post on the strangeness of baseball morality and the Guillen situation, check out Lookout Landing.
  • Two Royals mentions (or is it "Royal mentions"?) over at Baseball Prospectus today. Will Carroll (did we ever figure out what the Carroll-Sterger connection was exactly? thats got to go down as one of the most random name drops ever) mentions in his first "Will's Mill" post that the Royals are surprise players. Great. Because we all found the rumors that Dayton wanted Toriiiiiiiiiiii Hunter and Andruw Jones so intellectually reassuring. Meanwhile, John Perrotto mentions       that the Royals are looking for a power bat, and may be shopping DeJesus and Gobble. Now let us pause and try to name our favorite offensive move made by Dayton... Shealy! LaRue! Gathright!
  • JQ's already done a gentlemanly job breaking down the Dutton story in Sunday's Star on the Royals' finances. Congrats to the Royals on making "$1 million" in profits last year. I guess its a sign of progress that bonus cries of losing money aren't acceptable anymore, instead, bonus cries of incredibly small profits are. Of the wonders of the human mind, there is no limit to our praise.
  • The sister piece to the financial story is another Dutton story on Moore's approach to free agents. According to Dutton, the Royals head to the Winter Meetings, with "$25 million in spendable cash". What the story fails to mention is that they'll also be bringing with them $7 trillion in un-spendable cash.
  • According to Dick Kaegel, Royals fans are hoping this year's Winter Meetings are an encore of the last.
  • Kaegel also offers a Winter Meetings Checklist, that sums up all the off-season transactions thus far.

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FIRST!
Yesssss.

Oh wait... just a winter meetings post...

by Randa4life on Dec 3, 2007 1:23 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

$25 million
And we're going to spend it whether it makes sense or not!  Now that's how to field a winner.
I'd rather be watching baseball.

by Sisquatch Kids on Dec 3, 2007 10:42 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Prediction
We sign Jose Guillen - 3 years $30 million

We sign Jason Jennings - 1 year $8 million with an option

We trade Joey Gathright to Texas for a minor leaguer

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 3, 2007 10:48 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Cubs shopping Matt Murton?
he's a career .296/.365/.455 hitter...

by royalsreview on Dec 3, 2007 11:01 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Yeah I just saw that
What do you think a team would have to give up to get him?  A solid Left handed bat?  Does he make sense for us?  He doesn't have much pop and does not really project to ever develop much power according to last year's BP.
I'd rather be watching baseball.

by Sisquatch Kids on Dec 3, 2007 11:09 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd pass on Murton
He's not exactly the OF power threat we're looking for.  Kind of a less athletic version of Teahen who plays arguably worse defense.
"I'm tired of all these stupid a$$ questions every day. Why the f**k would I hit Brett for Miller?" The rest is history.

by DC Royal on Dec 3, 2007 11:18 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

he is more of a sure thing than Teahen though
Hillman, you're on notice.

by FireBell on Dec 3, 2007 12:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

He might provide a better 4th OF option
than Gator, Huber or Costa.  Would Gload be our 4th OF this year though?  I think he may have to be if we are going to carry him on the roster and Shealy.  Figuring our backups are to have Tupman, German, reserve SS (refusing to think that is Jason Smith). What does everyone think on that?  

by lordbyronk on Dec 3, 2007 12:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

probably yes
but i dont know if he's so much better that he's worth giving up something for him...

by royalsreview on Dec 3, 2007 12:37 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Craig Brazell
Is now a Seibu Lion, according to Ken Rosenthal
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 3, 2007 11:16 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, sadness
I bet Emil is in Japan next year also.

Maybe the Royals could sell Berroa to a Japanese team?  After Peral Harbor and all a bit of pay back might still be in order.

by James Quinn on Dec 3, 2007 12:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

How is it
...that every single major league team passed up this soon-to-be-great slugger??? </sarc>
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 3, 2007 12:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Because only the foks here at Royals Review
are brilliant!  Soon they will all learn!  Yes, and then they will be sad and spend hours every day searching the RR archives for other gems of wisdom!

Did Gload not explode!

Did Berroa not suck!

Did Buddy not turn out to less than a baseball genius!

How many times must RR be right before Dayton Moore just becomes our tool?

Plus, now that Brazell is a Japanese player everyone will want him to sign with the Royals!  He played this situation perfectly!

by James Quinn on Dec 3, 2007 12:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

wow
Hillman, you're on notice.

by FireBell on Dec 3, 2007 12:30 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It goes without saying
that Brazell is a run of the mill AAAA slugger. He would not to amount to much as a MLB regular.  I think this is a good career move for him.
"I'm tired of all these stupid a$$ questions every day. Why the f**k would I hit Brett for Miller?" The rest is history.

by DC Royal on Dec 3, 2007 12:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I dunno...
I think he could be one of the top 120 COF/1B/DHs in the game, which is really all he would have to be... but yea, happy trails Braz

any word on how much he's making in Japan?

by royalsreview on Dec 3, 2007 12:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That's what they said
About Jack Cust and Carlos Pena!

Granted, you have busts too, but I think Brazell deserved a shot somewhere stateside.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 3, 2007 12:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That's what they said
...about a lot of journeyman career minor leaguers who never amounted to anything as well.
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 3, 2007 12:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

There's a difference
Cust was a Justin Huber type, a top-hitting prospect without a position in the field. His curse was to spend most of his minor league career with NL organizations who refused to dump him because of his potent bat, but also refused to give him extensive playing time at the MLB level because of his lack of a position.  He toiled in the minors for much too long before the A's brightened up and gave him a shot at DH.

As for Pena, people forget that he was a top prospect for years.  At one time he was the top rated position player prospect by BA in both the A's and Tigers systems.  He always had monster power, but he struck out way too much. His learning curve was just longer and steeper than you'd expect.  

Brazell, meanwhile, has never been a top prospect.  The Mets didn't want him.  The Royals didn't either.  Brazell is much more Calvin Pickering or Kit Pellow than he is Cust or Pena.

"I'm tired of all these stupid a$$ questions every day. Why the f**k would I hit Brett for Miller?" The rest is history.

by DC Royal on Dec 3, 2007 1:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

you had me until that last line
I was actually going to say Brazell was more Brandon Berger than Calvin Pickering:  one huge season and a bunch of fairly average ones.

Actually, though, even calling Brazell a Brandon Berger isn't all that fair to Berger -- as Berger had a career minor league OPS 40 points higher than Brazell (.810 to .850).

As far as Calvin's concerned, I don't think Pickering really ever got a fair shake -- only 268 at bats total in the majors, and even then he didn't really do all that poorly, either (.757, very good slugging).  

He has a career .948 OPS in the minors, which should have been good enough to stick as a DH somewhere, but he just didn't physically resemble the prototypical baseball player, so I don't think he got a shot.  Sorta like Kucinich and the presidency.  There's really no other excuse for a team as offensively starved as the Royals of the last 10 years to give up on a player that hits a .838 in his last decent-sized sample in the pros.

by marbotty on Dec 3, 2007 2:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Who will be the first ex-Brave Dayton snags?
Pete Orr

Brayan Pena

Buddy Caryle

any other guesses?

by royalsreview on Dec 3, 2007 11:43 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Hopefully Andruw Jones
"I'm tired of all these stupid a$$ questions every day. Why the f**k would I hit Brett for Miller?" The rest is history.

by DC Royal on Dec 3, 2007 11:45 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I hope Pete Orr
He can really provide the grit we need and since he's white, he "really knows how to play the game."

Plus, with Matt Stairs gone, and Ryan Braun possibly slated for Omaha, Orr fufills our Canadian quota.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 3, 2007 12:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Pete Orr fits perfectly
he WILL be a Royal someday
Hillman, you're on notice.

by FireBell on Dec 3, 2007 12:31 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Bill Pecota
the next generation.

by lordbyronk on Dec 3, 2007 12:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Hall shuns Royal legends
Both Ewing Kauffman (around 41% of the vote) and Whitey Herzog (missed it by a vote) were rejected by the Hall of Fame Veterans Committee today (Billy Southworth, Dick Williams and Walter O'Malley got in).

It is now up to Dayton to avenge such disrespect of Royal-ty by owning the winter meetings.

by CentralChamps2009 on Dec 3, 2007 12:27 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Next years Winter Meetings Locale...
Vegas baby, Vegas
Hillman, you're on notice.

by FireBell on Dec 3, 2007 12:31 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Missed it by that much
I can't believe that Minnesota will now not even be able to consider our Nunez-Huber-Lubanski package.
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 3, 2007 12:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

they wanted Gobble
but Dayton wouldn't budge

by royalsreview on Dec 3, 2007 12:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't give up on it quite yet
Once we trade Alex Gordon for A-Rod, Santana may be induced to waive his no-trade to come to Kansas City.

Gobble, Duckworth and Costa should be enough to get him.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 3, 2007 12:53 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Not so fast
Santana's agent told the Star Tribune that story is untrue at this point:

http://www.startribune.com/blogs/neal/?p=282

So we're still in it!!!!!

by CentralChamps2009 on Dec 3, 2007 2:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I love how...
during the ALDS we got loads of "this is the last stand/chance of the Yankees, everyone is gone after this"

or, not

actually, everyone is back except the manager

by royalsreview on Dec 3, 2007 12:56 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

What is the market for David Eckstein?
He is a SS who I keep thinking might help upgrade the Royals.  Is he a FA that KC might consider signing to a low risk, low years type contract?  I haven't heard much interest on him?  M

by daveyork on Dec 3, 2007 1:14 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Not interested
His defense is terrible, and he's not much of an offensive upgrade over TPJ. He's also the only shortstop available, so he's likely to get waaaay overpaid because he's scrappy.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 3, 2007 1:25 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Carlos Quentin to the White Sox
There goes one young corner outfielder I thought we might get. Dealt for 1B Chris Carter, a 20 year old 1B who hit 25 home runs in A ball.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 3, 2007 1:24 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Quentin's star has fallen far
He's been on the trading block for months and the best they could get for him was an pretty good 1B prospect.
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 3, 2007 2:07 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

if that's all it took
It seems like we could have landed him for a pretty mediocre package of something like Lubanski, Stodolka and a Pimental/Blake Johnson/Lumsden-type.

by marbotty on Dec 3, 2007 2:59 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think there is a reason
...that no team apparently offered the D-Backs more than a pretty good 1B A-ball prospect.  And that the D-Backs were willing to take so little for him.  I don't think he has the big upside potential that everyone once thought he had.
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 3, 2007 3:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Kuroda
So it's being reported that the M's only offered around 3/30 to Kuroda rather than the 4/44 previously being reported. Not sure which is correct but it sounds like we still have a shot.

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 3, 2007 1:50 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

We're still in it
I hope to hell we don't have to go to 5 years to get him.  Maybe we could offer 4/44 plus significant performance incentives.
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 3, 2007 2:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

More positive news
"Hiroki Kuroda isn't dead set on the West Coast - he's keeping an open mind in terms of location."

From Rosenthal via MLBTR.

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 3, 2007 3:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

What is really important to Kuroda
His public relations-oriented statements would have you believe that what is most important to him is 1) geography, and 2) the challenge of playing at the highest level of baseball.  This is nothing against Kuroda, but I have a sneaking suspicion that like 95% of MLB players, what is really important to Kuroda is $$$.  Whoever gives him the best deal in terms of dollars and years will win.
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 3, 2007 3:08 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

less positive news
From the story posted just above that in MLBtraderumors.com:  Royals have shown interest in Matt Clement.

What's the point, other than he and Colby Lewis would make for pretty good bookends of below average pitchers in the rotation?

I guess Clement could pull a Meche, but if we end up landing him, it would qualify as Moore's most Baird-like move to date.

by marbotty on Dec 3, 2007 3:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

What if...
I'm no Clement fan, but what if Moore were to sign someone like Clement or Colon to a one-year low base salary contract with significant incentives?  I believe that is the kind of contract most are expecting a pitcher like that will receive.  If we can't get Kuroda or Silva at a reasonable price, I wouldn't be entirely against bringing in someone like Clement or Colon on a low-risk deal.  The alternative would be leaving 40% of the rotation to rookies.
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 3, 2007 3:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm down with that
It's all about how much he's looking at spending.  Any more than $4 million/year on him would seem to be too much (unless it's increased via incentives.)  

With Colon I'd be willing to go a little bit higher.

by marbotty on Dec 3, 2007 3:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Chris Shelton?
According to AaronGleeman.com:

Speaking of right-handed corner bats, Chris Shelton has been designated for assignment by the Tigers. Shelton fell out of favor in Detroit after slumping in 2006, but he's still just 27 years old and has hit .281/.348/.477 in 899 big-league plate appearances along with .311/.410/.500 in over 2,000 trips to the plate in the minors.

How about Brad Wilkerson (one of the top-10 free agents in SLG) and Shelton as a two-for-one low cost not-getting-suspended alternative?  Or Shelton alone as Guillen's suspension replacement and a 4th OF/1B/PH?

by CentralChamps2009 on Dec 3, 2007 2:08 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I like Wilkerson
Don't really understand why we're not rumored to be talking to him.

As far as Shelton, I like Shelton, I think he can help a team, but we already have a lot of 1B/DH types (Butler, Gload, Huber, Shealy) that all have flaws. We don't really need another.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 3, 2007 2:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

We already have two Wilkersons
Wilkerson will give you a good OBP but he doesn't make enough contact to show much of any power.  He's basically yet another DeJesus or Teahen.  We have that.  We need some power.  Wilkerson has very, very little.
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 3, 2007 2:18 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Little power?
He slugged .467 last year, with a low average. Granted, in Texas, but he has shown good power in the past.

I don't think it would cost much at all to get him. It would be a gamble sure, he strikes out a ton and his average is low. But I think he could make a good backup plan to Guillen.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 3, 2007 2:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Let's look at some more stats
He had a .467 SLG last year in an extreme power hitter's park.  In the prior two years, his slugging percentages were .422 and .405.  And his last two seasons' OBP were .319 and .306.  Over the last 3 years, Wilkerson has ben a league average hitter, which makes him decidedly below average for a corner OF spot and definitely not the kind of hitter we need to genuinely improve the offense.

I guess I don't mind Wilkerson being on the list as long as he's below Jones, Guillen, Fukudome, and Jenkins (if we can get a decent platoon partner for him, like Bobby Kielty).

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 3, 2007 2:55 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Wilkerson has above average power for OF
The problem with looking only at SLG to determine power is that much of SLG is made up of the player's batting average.  The better way to analyze power is to look at a player's Isolated Slugging Percentage (ISOP), which subtracts batting average out as part of the equation.  Per BTF, an average ISOP for a corner outfielder is around .175.

For Wilkerson, his ISOP the last four years have been:

2004  .243 (.236 on road/.251 at Olympic Stadium)
2005  .157 (.157 on road/.159 at RFK)
2006  .200 (.227 on road/.170 at Arlington)
2007  .233 (.207 on road/.259 at Arlington)

He posted .200+ ISOP on the road for the Rangers, so it is not driven by his cozy home ballpark.  As a corner outfielder, he has moderately above average power, and significantly more than DeJesus (2005-07: .152, .151, .112 ) or Teahen (2005-07: .130, .227, .125).

The problem with Wilkerson, as noted above, is that he makes so little contact to provide much help.  

by Gopherballs on Dec 3, 2007 4:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I care about production, not tools
Yes, his ISOP shows that he has good power skills and that when he makes contact, he is likely to hit the ball hard.  That's great, but it is also irrelevant.  If your power skills don't translate into a good slugging percentage, then it is meaningless.  And, on top of that, he hasn't been getting on base nearly often enough in the last two years.  That doesn't make for a particularly good hitter.
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 3, 2007 4:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Understanding a player's skills
is a necessary component in developing a reasonable expectation of how a player will likely perform in the future.  

Segregating out how a hitter performs is very helpful.  For a guy like Wilkerson, we can see that he hits for good power, he takes walks at a fair clip (yet down from his best years), but makes so little contact that his overall value falls pretty far.  If you could see a reason to suggest that he likely will improve his contact rate (the one part of his game that is bringing him down), Wilkerson would be a great player to target because the power and walks are already there.  Unfortunately, in Wilkerson's case, there is little reason to expect Wilkerson will fix his contact problem.  But because the next player may have a fixable problem, the analysis is certainly worth doing.

Looking only at past production is the Allard Baird way.

by Gopherballs on Dec 3, 2007 5:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Production is essential
I don't have anything against breaking down stats in all kinds of ways, including looking at ISOP.  And if a player has good ISOP but doesn't make much contact and you think his contact will improve, then it becomes relevant.  But Wilkerson is no longer developing.  He has already hit his peak years.  So if his ISOP has not translated into a good slugging percentage, it is irrelevant.

In evaluating a player, you must always look at past production.  Not just career numbers, but particularly the most recent three years.  For a player who is no longer in his developing/improving years, I don't much care what his tools/skills are if he hasn't been able to turn those skills into actual production on the field.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 3, 2007 5:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Dodgers lowballing Jones
So the Dodgers were said to be making a strong push at Andruw Jones, but that "strong push" apparently means an offer of 2yrs/$32M.  That was supposed to the fewer-years-but-more-money-per-year contract.  If that represents the market for Jones, then the Royals may well be able to get him for 4/56.  And I'd be willing to throw in some significant performance incentives which could give him a lot more money if he proves 2007 was really a fluke.
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 3, 2007 2:22 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Hmm, interesting
I haven't been a huge supporter of the bring Andruw Jones to KC parade so far, but if the price is right I would definitely be interested. That offer is less-per-year than what Hunter got and I thought this whole less years thing would mean more money-per-year for Jones. I like 4/56 but I really don't have a good feel as to whether or not that is possible. I'm thinking only 40% positive that 4/56 gets the job done. Would you still feel like it was a good deal at 4/60-65?

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 3, 2007 2:31 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd take it
4/60-65 would be good. If we offered Hunter 4/70 why not get up around there for Jones. He's 30 where Hunter is 32. I don't think one off year should shy teams away like it has. Come on Dayton! Get Andruw to KC!!!!
Sign Alex Gordon to a life time contract!!!

by eboston on Dec 3, 2007 3:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Wait
we offered Hunter 5/70 didn't we. My mistake, but still want Jones in KC. I'd take Jones and Guillen and trade either Teahan or DeJesus (preferably Mark). Come on the Braves connection has to make this signing possible.
Sign Alex Gordon to a life time contract!!!

by eboston on Dec 3, 2007 3:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Why trade either?
A starting OF of DeJesus in left, Jones in center, and Teahen in right would be pretty good.  If we were to sign Jones, I'd say dump Emil Brown and keep either Gathright or Costa as the 4th OF.  If we'd trade anyone mentioned here, I'd say trade Gathright for a good middle infield prospect and keep Costa as the 4th OF.

by DarthYoshi on Dec 3, 2007 4:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

What Middle IF?
Any players in mind? I'm liking the idea of looking into Juan Uribe. Probably wouldn't take much to get him. Would be a better bat than TPJ.
Sign Alex Gordon to a life time contract!!!

by eboston on Dec 3, 2007 4:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

To add to that
Chicago might would make that trade for Gathright, especially if they don't land Rowand.
Sign Alex Gordon to a life time contract!!!

by eboston on Dec 3, 2007 4:55 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Uribe
At what point in the season do the White Sox stop letting guys like him attempt to steal a base? Apparently never, 1 SB versus 9 CS last year. Is that possible? Not arguing for or against him, just found that an unbelievable stat.

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 3, 2007 4:55 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Well...
For instance, I know there have been rumors of a Gathright for Joaquin Arias trade (Arias is a shortstop in the Rangers farm system).  I'm not big on Arias, but I am on board with the idea of trading Gathright for an Arias-like prospect.

by DarthYoshi on Dec 3, 2007 4:58 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Elijah Dukes
Hadn't heard much about him, but the rumor is that he is headed to D.C.

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 3, 2007 2:33 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

By the way
this rumor comes from this article.

Gotta love the sources of these rumors, how funny would it be if Bowden knows somebody else by the name "Elijah"?

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 3, 2007 2:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe Bowden is Muslim
"The Honorable Prophet Elijah...."
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 3, 2007 2:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Dukes
Sounds like he still has a bad temper, just got thrown out of a DL game.

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 3, 2007 3:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Dukes is a major scumbag
He's much worse than a skirt-chaser with a bit of a temper:

Since 1998, he has been arrested 6 times on charges including possession of marijuana, assault, and resisting an officer. On May 23, 2007 it was reported that his wife filed a restraining order after he threatened to kill her.[1] On June 12, 2007, a 17 year-old foster child, who was living in the care of a relative of Dukes, accused him of impregnating her. Police say the sex was apparently consensual, and no crime was committed, but they are investigating. When the girl confronted Dukes, he allegedly got angry and threw a bottle of Gatorade at her.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 3, 2007 3:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Listen up DM
Bring him to KC now! He could be just who Emil needs in the clubhouse to buddy around with, maybe they could become pellet gun buddies.

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 3, 2007 3:15 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

In Other News
Jeremy Affeldt is looking for 4yrs/16MM!!!! Wow!!!

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 3, 2007 3:16 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

The year of insane relief pitcher contracts
Last year it was mediocre starting pitchers.  This year it is decent relievers.  The contracts for Romero, Linebrink and Cordero have been insane.  I'm not surprised that Affeldt is looking for a contract like that.  He might not get it, but it probably won't be far from that.

But the market insanity probably won't be limited to relievers.  Silva, Lohse, Colon, Clement and others are still unsigned.  Some really bad contracts could and probably will be given to some of those guys.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 3, 2007 3:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Or middle infielders...
People are already slamming the Kaz Matsui signing left and right.  I think that the high-money insanity is going to be at least as pronounced with 2b's and ss's as with relief pitchers, if not more so--the market for middle infielders is waaaaaay thinner this year.  I'd be willing to put an even-money bet that the contracts for players like David Eckstein will be at least as insane as those for Romero, Linebrink, etc, if not more so.

by DarthYoshi on Dec 3, 2007 4:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Here's a team to talk trade with...
The Nats are getting outfielders like crazy and theres not realistically a place for all of them. Why not make a trade offer for Wily Mo Pena?  There's a COF/Right Handed Bat w/power. Anyone remember the shot into the concession area in left? What do you guys think?
Sign Alex Gordon to a life time contract!!!

by eboston on Dec 3, 2007 3:31 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

If he couldn't hit in Boston
...then he won't be able to hit here.  He's all potential with no results and no work ethic.  And I believe he has only one more year before he becomes a free agent.  If we still had Craig Brazell, I would have traded him for a one-year rental of Wily, but since we don't have him anymore, I'll pass.
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 3, 2007 3:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

We do have
Emil Brown and some average prospects.
Sign Alex Gordon to a life time contract!!!

by eboston on Dec 3, 2007 3:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

No to Pena but yes to Guillen?
Throwing aside the fact that Jose Guillen is six years older, will cost $10 million more annually, and is likely to be suspended for a sizeable portion of 2008, it still seems that Pena may be a better option.

Guillen

2005 WAS .283/.338/.479
2006 WAS .216/.276/.398
2007 SEA .290/.353/.460

Career: .274/.325/.447

Pena

2005 CIN .254/.304/.492
2006 BOS .301/.349/.489
2007 BOS .218/.291/.385
2007 WAS .293/.352/.504

Career: .260/.316/.472

Two of Pena's season's were in pretty severe hitters parks, but his most recent performance in the same stadium Guillen played in seems to be a potential upward trend.  

Regardless, aside from a terrible half season in Boston this year, I see a pretty consistently high SLG% around .500 for Pena the last 3 years.  Factor in that he's coming up on his peak seasons, he's a great candidate to outperform Guillen over the next few years.  

Also, in a weird bit of trivia, it appears the guy that Pena was traded for was the same guy that was traded away to get Carlos Quentin (Chris Carter.)  

How did the White Sox have him?  Was this a typo?
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/mlb_experts/post/Arizona-sells-low-on-Quentin;_ylt=Apg0OU8lKGOr.O4M xxISG1ARvLYF?urn=mlb,56054

by marbotty on Dec 3, 2007 3:56 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The problems with Pena
1) his power hitting numbers came in two very power-friendly ballparks, and 2) he would be a one-year rental as he becomes a FA after next season.  Also, we'd have to give up talent to acquire him.  But it is #1 that scares me and #2 that makes him of limited value to the Royals.
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 3, 2007 4:07 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Correction
His Boston and Cincy numbers came from power-friendly parks, but obviously the Washington performance was in a pitcher-friendly park.
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 3, 2007 4:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Hey
it's not like teams never re-sign a player. Depending on what the Nats would require for him I think Pena is an option to be considered, even if he will be a FA after next season. Dayton could even get a contract extension before he reached Free Agency. The fact that he would be a free agent is all the more reason it might not take a huge bounty to get the Nats to move him.
Sign Alex Gordon to a life time contract!!!

by eboston on Dec 3, 2007 4:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

No, it wouldn't take a lot
...but we also wouldn't be getting a lot.  He would likely be a one-year stopgap.  I'd rather genuinely build for the future.  And it's not like Pena has such a good, consistent track record that the Royals should offer him a big long-term contract.

One other thing I noticed about his stats is that he's had a higher percentage of AB's against lefties (which is to be expected from a RH part-time player).  And he hits lefties very well, but not doesn't hit righties well at all.  So he looks a lot more like a good bench player or platoon partner than a regular starter.  If we signed Jenkins to a one-year deal and platooned him with Pena, that would be a decent LF option.  But, again, it would be just a one-year stopgap.  I'd prefer a long-term solution.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 3, 2007 4:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

And, with regard to Guillen
You have to recognize that the above hitting stats were with him playing half of his games in extreme pitcher's parks.  That is why his OPS+ is still pretty high, even though the OPS wasn't huge.  His numbers should go up playing half of his games in KC.  Also, Guillen had a wrist injury in 2006 which shortened his season and affected his hitting even when he was playing.
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 3, 2007 4:12 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Different Chris Carter
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 3, 2007 4:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Nats OF
Go ahead and pencil in Elijah Dukes in the OF now, the Washington Post is confirming the rumor of Dukes to the Nats. Not sure who is headed the other way yet though.

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 3, 2007 3:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Dukes to Washington
Now it is being reported that the Rays are getting a PTBNL for Dukes. What?!?!

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 3, 2007 3:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Player to be named later
Basically the Rays just gave him away.  Apparently there wasn't much of a market for this SOB.  I can't say I'm too surprised.  This jerk is pretty damned evil and very likely to beat up another woman and/or be arrested for another felony(ies).
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 3, 2007 3:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

PTBNL
Sooo...apparently the Rays did receive something of value for Dukes. From MLBTR:

"UPDATE, 12-3-07 at 4:19pm: The Rays will receive a 20 year-old southpaw starter named Glenn Gibson.  Gibson was actually rumored way back on November 14th in this deal and the Nats didn't want to part with him.  He's said to have a "decent fastball, very good curve, and tons of polish."  Scratch what I said about getting Dukes for nothing; Gibson is something.  He's been compared to Will Inman but with a little more projection.

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 3, 2007 5:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I believe
He's an impending FA. Dukes will take over for him when he departs.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 3, 2007 3:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

So Nats starting OF
Milledge LF
Dukes CF
Kearns RF
Pena 4OF

That's pretty solid.  Dukes behavior is reprehensible, but I think he can play if given the chance.  

by lordbyronk on Dec 3, 2007 3:50 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Until he gets suspended
Any drug use (which he has done in the past) gets him suspended.  The next time he threatens to kill his wife or beats a 17-year-old girl he's impregnated, he'll get suspended.  There's also a decent chance the bumps, pushes, punches an umpire, player, coach or manager.

And then of course there's the .709 OPS he managed in 2007...

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 3, 2007 3:55 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

i love this time of year...
when I once again see the name Amy Nelson and wonder... who is this mystery espn reporter...

by royalsreview on Dec 3, 2007 5:03 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Had the same question
but thought maybe everybody else knew who she was so I didn't want to look stupid.

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 3, 2007 5:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Amy Nelson
Was the name of my very first girlfriend in 7th grade. No joke. Wonder if its her!
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 3, 2007 9:27 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

ESPN/Steve Phillips...
"* It seems more and more likely that Erik Bedard will get dealt. Suitors are lining up for the ace left-hander. "

----

Bedard might not be Santana, but he's damn good and probably under-rated... We should make a play... (i know this won't happen...)

by royalsreview on Dec 3, 2007 5:05 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Bedard
And you thought it was crazy what Billy Beane is gonna ask for Dan Haren, wait til you hear what MacPhail wants for Bedard. I'm sure it will be insane, though I think he's a pretty damn good pitcher.

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 3, 2007 5:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Are we at the point
...in the rebuilding of this team when we can afford to give up multiple good, young players for one player?  It would take a lot to get Bedard.  We'd have to give up some key pieces to the 2008 (and beyond) 25-man roster.  I don't think that's smart.
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 3, 2007 5:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Would you trade
Teahen, Hochevar and Moustakas for him?  Because it would take at least that, probably more.  Just because he's "elite" doesn't mean we should strip the organization bare for him.
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 3, 2007 6:18 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed
We're not really in a position to be a player in trades much at all, because we don't have much to trade. We have to be active in signing free agents to improve this ballclub.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 3, 2007 9:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Our significant trading chips
DeJesus or Teahen
Gathright
Gobble

And you can add in guys like Buckner and/or Nunez.  Those guys aren't the kind of players who are going to get you an elite player in trade.  But some of them could get you a good, young player.  Next offseason, there will be a thin crop of FA CFers.  That would be a good time to shop DeJesus, as he will still be under a cheap contract for multiple years, and hopefully he will have had a bounce back 2008.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 3, 2007 9:46 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Blalock to the Cards?
What do you think of this one?

"Here's a good one from Evan Grant of the Dallas Morning News.  Grant admits this is dangerous, unsubstantiated rumormongering.  Is there any other kind?  The buzz is Hank Blalock to the Cardinals for Scott Rolen and Chris Duncan.  Interesting, though we know the Cards are very reluctant to trade Duncan.  

Both Blalock and Rolen carry injury risk, so maybe that cancels out.  But Blalock only has $12MM left on his deal while Rolen has $36MM and a no-trade clause.  Even if you consider Blalock for Rolen an even swap, Duncan probably isn't worth the $24MM salary difference.

Also from MLBTR.com

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 3, 2007 5:36 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

There has to be more to this one
that trade would be absolutely stupid for the Cards.  

by lordbyronk on Dec 3, 2007 5:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

salary dump...
and rolen and TLR hate each other

by LeoBloom on Dec 3, 2007 5:58 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, maybe not after all
Jon Daniels said not to write it so it could be just that, nonsubstantiated rumormongering. That is a great term isn't it?

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 3, 2007 6:25 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Rotoworld sez
Its Rolen for Capuano.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 3, 2007 9:27 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

LAME first day so far...
the Winter Meetings were supposed to be the new Trade Deadline... turns out they are, only in lameness

by LeoBloom on Dec 3, 2007 6:03 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

First day of Winter Meetings
Are always lame

2006:
Atlanta Braves signed Buddy Carlyle as a free agent.
San Francisco Giants signed Pedro Feliz as a free agent.
Seattle Mariners signed Jose Guillen as a free agent.
Texas Rangers signed Vicente Padilla as a free agent.
Boston Red Sox signed Kerry Robinson as a free agent.

On Wednesday though, the Royals traded for Brian Bannister. And on Thursday they signed John Bale, Octavio Dotel, released Runelvys Hernandez and picked up Joakim Soria.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 3, 2007 9:25 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

At BP's Rum,or Mill
Perrotto once again mentions the precious Guillen rumor... Damn. Can we just sign this guy already?

by LeoBloom on Dec 3, 2007 6:13 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I think we're holding out for less
...and he's holding out for more.  Given that the Royals aren't in a bidding war, I'm glad they are waiting and not going up to what Guillen apparently wants.  I'd love to get Guillen on the cheap, like 3/27 or 2/20+ an option year.
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 3, 2007 6:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Nick Johnson
They have no room for him in Washington after the last couple trades (in other words, Meathook couldn't go to the OF anymore). DM should make a play for him. He's an OBP and doubles machine. I'd like this lineup (or some slight variation)

DeJesus, cf
Grudzie, 2b
Johnson, 1b/dh
Butler, 1b/dh
Gordon, 3b
Guillen, lf
Teahen, rf
Buck, c
Pena, ss

Another interesting name we could take a run at is Bobby Crosby, if we could get the A's to take on most of his salary. He's got talent but has had injury problems.

by doublestix on Dec 3, 2007 7:08 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Johnson
He's a really good player when he plays, but he's as injury prone as Griffey, Dotel and Sweeney combined.  He missed all of 2007, half of 2003 and 2004 and had DL stints in 2005 and 2006.  How much is a good half-time player worth?
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 3, 2007 7:13 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

well
Yea I acknowledge that, but his 2007 injury was a fluke I believe. Had heard he ran into the right fielder very violently and broke his leg.

I'd still try and get him, I don't think he would require too much compensation to the Nats.

by doublestix on Dec 3, 2007 7:24 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Crosby
Had power at one point, but has been Pena-esque lately. What the heck happened to him?
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 3, 2007 9:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

according to MLBTR...
we are about to sign jose guillen, whatever that means...

supposedly 3 years for 11-12 million a year.

i dont like guillen all that much, but he is the best available option. i trust GMDM more than most, so i think he will turn out all right...

by rockchalk on Dec 3, 2007 11:59 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Probably
I would guess that it is a move to keep Guillen in line.  Perhaps Guillen was asking for more money and/or threatening to sit on the Royals offer and look around for a while.

I'd rather it be 3/30 than 3/33, but with every team awash in money, the price for free agents is going to go up every year.  You can't judge this year's contract by last year's standard.  The price for any player is whatever the market will bear.  This year's contracts are bigger than last year.  Next year's contracts will make these contracts look small and reasonable.

The bottom line is that Moore had money and saw a big need and he has gone out to fill that need.  Given the market and the available options, I think he's done as good a job as is reasonably possible.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 12:17 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

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