Winter Meetings Day Two Open Thread- Guillen, Err, Guillen Signed
As we enter another day of The Siege of Guillen Royals Review asks, whats worse, the old-style stories about the Patriots that always mixed in a dash of moral pablum, or the new-style, 2007 edition, that simply treats them as the greatest collection of men dedicated to a single endeavor in the history of the universe? If life teaches us anything, it is perhaps that everything does find a way to get worse, that everything that was once sweet will eventually bitter and that finally we'll be left choosing between terrible options on the left and terrible options on the right.
If only the Red Sox and Patriots could actually, somehow, play each other, with the winner choosing to exile either Simmons or Belichick to Outer Mongolia...
Onward.
- As nicely summarized on MLB Trade Rumors, the current state of the endless Guillen talks is somewhere between uncertain and God-knows-where, with Dutton filing a story late tonight suggesting that the Royals are back in the Andruw Jones sweepstakes, sponsored by the Gold Club. There's also a variety of reports on the official site, as well as a confident assertion from Ken Rosenthal that the Royals and Guillen are closing in on a deal. Just imagine how this would all seem if us irresponsible bloggers who... wait for it... live in our parent's basement and write in our underwear, were the people covering these non-transactions.
Update [2007-12-4 1:39:51 by royalsreview]:
- And now ESPN Deportes is deporting that the Royals have signed Guillen (hat tip Slayor). I feel strangely empty hearing this news. Like some Rhodesians must have felt during that island's second siege, I almost wish the battle could rage on. The reported terms are 3 years/$36 million, a span that should leave Guillen easily one of the 50 Greatest Royals of All-Time.
- For Chicago reaction to the Carlos Quentin deal, check out our peers at South Side Sox. Honestly, I treat the White Sox like I treat the French Revolution; I gave up trying to piece it all together years ago.
- In weird news, Dutton (again, someone better be paying him extra for all this work) reports that ex-Royal Brian Anderson is eying a comeback and is planning on showcasing himself soon. As many of you will remember, I spent the summer in Cleveland, and heard quite a bit of Anderson on the Indians "channel" cum cashscam Sports Time Ohio. Honestly, dude was pretty good on the air, especially when the Tribe would run a three-man booth for random games, allowing no one to really have to try to hard. Moreover, Anderson was a Royal during the last stretch of interesting games we've had, back in 2003, and wasn't half bad then either. So, good luck I guess to him.
- According to both Will Carroll and the ESPN team, its the non-Santana deal which is holding everything up, although no one can really isolate why this is the case. Carroll also notes that the Cubs are preparing to make a big offer to Kosuke Fukudome.
- Still think the Royals shouldn't make a play for Tejada? Look at this absurd rumor.
Got news? Live somewhere random and hear something on the radio? Pass it along? We're all just anxiously waiting to hear something interesting, something, anything, baseball-related.
Update [2007-12-4 15:15:3 by royalsreview]:
- The Star is reporting that the Royals are in talks with the Braves regarding a DeJesus-Chuck James deal.
- The boys at Steroid Nation are none too happy that the Royals have signed Guillen.
Update [2007-12-4 18:50:57 by royalsreview]:
- The Tigers have allegedly completed the Willis-Cabrera trade. Probably evens out in the long run, but I think definitely makes them stronger for 2008. When are the Royals supposed to be better than the Indians and Tigers again? 2009? 2010? Can I wait that long?
0 recs |
306 comments
Comments
I doubt Moore would bite on Tejada
by royaldaddy on Dec 4, 2007 2:57 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I don't get it.
If we were willing to go $15 million/yr on Hunter (5 years/75 million) why wouldn't we make the same offer for Jones? It looks like the best offer was for two years/32 million by the Dodgers. Surely we could have gone 3 and 45, or even 4 and $60, which would only be $3 million more annually than Guillen, but for a considerably more talented player.
---
I wish I could share the board's optimism on the Guillen signing, but we're paying a franchise record per year dollar amount on a guy that has a career OPS of under .800.
Granted he's played in some difficult parks, but his away splits the last three years were good for just .288/.334/.499. That's not bad, certainly, but that .833 puts him right near Raul Ibanez/Kelly Johnson country (.831 each.)
I'd love to think a move to Kauffman will help out his power numbers, and there's reason to believe that it will as far as doubles, but likely not to such an extent it will turn him into a top 50 offensive player.
In fact, we're likely to see his homerun total drop in 2008, despite moving away from Seattle. Safeco is actually a more-homer friendly stadium than Kauffman (1.002 vs. .909).
Here's my prediction for 2008
.289/.341/.472 33 doubles 21 hrs .813 OPS
Not bad, but probably not worth what we're paying.
For comparison's sake, that's the sort of production we got from Emil Brown his first two years. I'm guessing it'll be about 60 or 70 points lower and about 15 hrs fewer than what Andruw Jones puts up next season. (And that's if he plays the whole season, which there's a good chance may not happen.)
by marbotty on Dec 4, 2007 4:49 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps I'm being too hasty
I think I'd mostly be disappointed if Moore was interested in signing one or the other and merely settled for Guillen.
If we bring in Jones, how would our offense compare to the 2007 Yankees? That was a team that won 94 games despite having a worse team ERA than the Royals, and there's no reason to think we can't approximate that team ERA again this year.
by marbotty on Dec 4, 2007 4:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dayton Moore
DeJesus in Left, Jones in Center, Guillen in Right
and move Teahan to 1st. I like that option. This idea of Butler playing first I'm just not liking it. I mean if Butler's at 1st what are the options for a reliable DH? Shealy? I mean honestly...
by eboston on Dec 4, 2007 9:30 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
The Royals aren't liking Butler at first either
If the pursuit of Jones is still for real (I think it's unlikely), than 2 years HAS to be the max, as $18 mil. a year seems the minimum to beat the Dodgers. As GMDM pointed out in the Star yesterday, we need to start locking in our homegrown talent to long term contract extensions. Don't want to swallow up too many dollars on guys (possibly) in their decline.
by CentralChamps2009 on Dec 4, 2007 10:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't mind the money so much
He's posted an OPS+ of 115 four of the last five years. That's pretty consistent and a big improvement over last year.
I don't get the Teahen to 1B talk. He would be one of the lightest hitting 1B in the league. We already have a log jam of flawed first basemen. Enough with the position switches.
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 10:22 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
You're telling me
by eboston on Dec 4, 2007 10:27 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Teahen is too similar to Gload
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 10:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Just throwing the idea out there
by eboston on Dec 4, 2007 10:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I respect your opinion
As Ron Burgundy says, "we will have to agree to disagree."
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 10:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Weirdest news of the day
by CentralChamps2009 on Dec 4, 2007 10:48 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
He can teach Manny and Ortiz
by DC Royal on Dec 4, 2007 10:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Atlanta paper
Uh, Joey Gathright on sale now!
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 10:56 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Meetings
Lineup with Guillen and Jones:
Teahen
Grud
Jones
Butler
Guillen
Gordon
Shealy
Buck
Pena
Seems pretty righty heavy now. Whatever.
Help me out guys.
by Matty486 on Dec 4, 2007 11:13 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather keep DeJesus
DeJesus
Grud
Guillen
Jones
Butler
Gordon
Buck
Gload/Shealy (would like it to get better)
Pena (would like this to improve)
Teahen is the odd man out in this roster but it would be nice to get an arm out of him. Maybe the Cardinals would give up one of their young guys for him. He could help them in the OF or 3rd compared to what they have now. And he'd get to play with LaRue some more!!!
I'm still interested to see what Chicago would want for Uribe. If it didn't take much to get him I think it would be a decent pick-up.
Pitching is not looking like the easiest fix to me this year. Kuroda and then what? Overpay for Silva? We might have to try running with what we have for one more year and boost offensive production.
by eboston on Dec 4, 2007 11:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Anthony Reyes for Teahen?
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 11:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Have to disagree on Dejesus
by royaldaddy on Dec 4, 2007 11:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Call Me Crazy
by lordbyronk on Dec 4, 2007 11:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thank You
by eboston on Dec 4, 2007 12:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bob Dutton
by eboston on Dec 4, 2007 3:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's Awesome!!
by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 3:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
by fats on Dec 4, 2007 12:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Austin Kearns available
Some crazy rumors out there. According to Joel Sherman the Indians and Blue Jays are reportedly talking about a swap that would send Alex Rios to the Tribe for Franklin Gutierrez and Cliff Lee. That seems pretty ridiculous.
Anthony Reyes seems available - San Diego is interested.
Cards-Brewers talking about a Scott Rolen-Chris Capuano swap.
Reds talking about dealing Josh Hamilton, possibly to the Cubs for Sean Marshall or Rich Hill.
Houston talking Chris Burke to the White Sox for a reliever, possibly Mike MacDougal.
Cubs trade IF Omar Infante and P Will Ohman to Atlanta for P Jose Ascanio
Yankees trade P Tyler Clippard to Washington for P Jonathan Albaladejo
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 11:17 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Left Field
by eboston on Dec 4, 2007 11:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
More news
The Rays turned down the Mariners' offer of a Ben Broussard-for-Edwin Jackson trade, according to the Seattle Times.
According to the Chicago Tribune, the Cubs and Braves are interested in Nate McLouth.
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 11:47 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Rosenthal
Outfielder Cameron Maybin and left-hander Andrew Miller likely are among the Marlins' targets. The Tigers already feature two veteran left-handed starters, Kenny Rogers and Nate Robertson, possibly making Miller available in a deal for Willis."
Crap. Cleveland and Detroit seem intent on making things tough for us.
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 11:51 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
yikes
by sprntern8 on Dec 4, 2007 11:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Woe to be a Marlins fan
by DC Royal on Dec 4, 2007 12:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Just one question...
by djk royal on Dec 4, 2007 11:52 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Mariners
by sprntern8 on Dec 4, 2007 12:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Guillen moves
by fats on Dec 4, 2007 12:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i think the A's are interested in Teahen again
by FireBell on Dec 4, 2007 12:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Rosenthal:
The Royals' preliminary agreement with Jose Guillen on a three-year, $36 million contract might not preclude them from making a run at another free-agent outfielder, Andruw Jones. The Royals also are bidding for Japanese free-agent right-hander Hiroki Kuroda, whose price has risen above $40 million for four years. They presumably could redirect that money toward Jones, but probably could sign him only if he agreed to a shorter deal.
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 12:13 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
God, why are we doing this...
by FireBell on Dec 4, 2007 12:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
God, why are we doing this...
by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 12:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Improving the team
by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 12:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
not sure andruw is a good move
by FireBell on Dec 4, 2007 12:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You don't like Moore bringing in impact players?
by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 12:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Too early to pass judgment
I think Guillen is the most sure thing in terms of predictable production, but it's very possible that he could be suspended for 50 games to start the season. Nonetheless, 3 years for $36 million is a relative bargain for what he should provide.
Jones can be depended upon to hit 20-30 HR's but he's coming off a .222/.311/.413 and the general consensus is that his defensive skills are in decline. Can the Royals afford to go, say, 2-3 years at 15-18 million per year for him? I'd say yes provided that his horrible 2007 was an aberrration for him, but I'm not so sure, especially considering that he will be making a transition to the American League.
Kuroda, meanwhile, is the biggest unknown of the three. The problem with Japanese players coming to the MLB is that their projections based on statistics, accolades, and/or scouting reports have not strongly correlated with performance. You roll the dice when you go fishing for Japanese starting pitching. Kei Igawa was a two-time Sawamura Award winner in Japan and possessed more victories, a lower ERA, and a better K/9 inning ratio than Kuroda. He bombed in his first season in the MLB. Then again, if you believe the scouting reports, Kuroda possesses better pure stuff than Igawa and may turn out to be a Hideo Nomo (early Dodger years) or a more consistent version of Daisuke Matsuzaka. He is a very significant risk in terms of projecting his performance over a 4 year contract worth $40-50 million, which it will certainly take to secure his services. Then again, if there's one area where I almost fully trust GMDM, it's in evaluating and signing pitching. He deserves that trust after bucking conventional wisdom to acquire Meche, Bannister, and Soria.
by DC Royal on Dec 4, 2007 12:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Too early is correct
- I don't think Guillen will get a 50-game suspension, I also believe DM would take that into consideration when negotiating.
- See NYR's post below regarding Jones defense.
- You not only roll the dice when you go after Japanese players, you roll the dice when you sign any FA. It's all a crapshoot.
by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 12:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
will carroll and sterger
by FireBell on Dec 4, 2007 12:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Well.....
by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 12:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
they are both all over the internet
SHOW YOURSELF CARROLL
by FireBell on Dec 4, 2007 12:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i have had good interactions with carroll
by royalsreview on Dec 4, 2007 12:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sterger/Carroll
The range of possibilities between fat and balding and absolutely smoking hot is mind blowing.
by DC Royal on Dec 4, 2007 12:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i think Carroll would drag everything down
by LeoBloom on Dec 4, 2007 1:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Both have
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 1:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
their feet are very close
by royalsreview on Dec 4, 2007 1:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh Conan O'Brien
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 1:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Area?
These trade rumors are making my head spin.
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 1:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He has a wide stance. And he must fly often.
This can't really be happening.
Everyone knows that Carroll is a blogger. We are just surprised to see him outside when the sun is shining. Where did he find that shirt and pair of shorts? We all know that the only clothes bloggers own are underwear. After all, when you live in mom's basement you don't need to get dressed that often.
by James Quinn on Dec 4, 2007 2:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Only Carroll's are natural
by NHZ on Dec 5, 2007 9:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The boys would have great hair and
by grudz69 on Dec 4, 2007 1:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I mean really
his gut and her, um, er, shelf
by buddyball on Dec 5, 2007 9:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It also happens
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 12:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Trade DeJesus or Teahen
by Sisquatch Kids on Dec 4, 2007 12:23 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
how much of an upgrade is Andruuuuuuu
and is it worth teh cost
by FireBell on Dec 4, 2007 12:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
It would be a huuuuuuuge upgrade
by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 12:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I meant, "consider 2007"
by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 12:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
isn't his D slipping though...
by royalsreview on Dec 4, 2007 12:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not according to Dewan's fielding stats
by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 12:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would have...
by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 12:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
two sides...
- AJ is better than DDJ, always will be, probably even in his decline phase.
- The question becomes, is CF a position we really need to upgrade that much to begin with? I know it doesn't directly work out this way, but ideally, you'd look at our roster and upgrade about 5 different slots before you got to CF. Still, the market is what the market is right now, and while I wish GMDM would stay away, its better to get one of the good players than blowing the money on trash.
by LeoBloom on Dec 4, 2007 1:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Brandon Inge
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 12:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Not interested
by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 12:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Inge was a catcher and now a decent defensive 3B
by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 12:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He'd be a nifty supersub
by NHZ on Dec 5, 2007 9:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
question
If "...us irresponsible bloggers who... wait for it... live in our parent's basement and write in our underwear," is true, are the "professional journalists" going commando?
by buddyball on Dec 4, 2007 1:23 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
they are in nashville...
by LeoBloom on Dec 4, 2007 1:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Cubs have been talking to the Royals....
by RoyalsFanInMarinerTown on Dec 4, 2007 1:28 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Interesting
by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 1:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Who else besides?
by lordbyronk on Dec 4, 2007 1:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Murton and Marshall
by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 1:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i like teahen more
by LeoBloom on Dec 4, 2007 1:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 1:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Will, does this mean
by DC Royal on Dec 4, 2007 1:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Kuroda
by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 1:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I would offer 4/40
by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 1:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
only 10 teams are interested in Bedard
by royalsreview on Dec 4, 2007 1:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Peter Angelos
Bedard will still be an Oriole.
by DC Royal on Dec 4, 2007 1:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
KC Star - DJ for Chuck James
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 2:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Interesting
by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 2:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I like this one too
by lordbyronk on Dec 4, 2007 2:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
High home run rates
I am concerned about his home run rates however. And I really like DJ. I'd rather give up Gathright if that's at all possible.
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 2:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Royals-Braves trading partner relationship
by DC Royal on Dec 4, 2007 2:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Creepy
by Sisquatch Kids on Dec 4, 2007 2:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He's a 4th starter in the AL
He is not a bad guy to fill out the back end of a rotation, but DeJesus is more valuable.
by Gopherballs on Dec 4, 2007 3:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
James is only due around $400k in 2008 (I think)
Meche
Bannister
James
Grienke
DeLarosa
Imagine what would happen if we were able to sign Kuroda too!
by Sisquatch Kids on Dec 4, 2007 2:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
DDJ for James
by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 2:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
From the Star:
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 2:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How recent is that?
by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 2:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
As of this morning
by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 2:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I know
by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 2:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think they are exploring many things at once
by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 3:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 2:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Uhhh
by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 2:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
One year of Lofton
by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 2:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't much see the point
And there's Gathright too.
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 2:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Huge difference between Maier and Lofton
by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 2:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't disagree
Baseball is littered with guys with subpar minor league numbers who stepped it up. I'm not saying we should give everyone a shot who had crappy minor league numbers, but when we don't have any other options, I'd rather go with an inhouse option than spend money on a one year contract on an old vet. You sign Lofton, he helps you win a few games, then he leaves (or maybe you can flip him at the deadline - maybe). Maier, there's a small chance he turns into a useful player.
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 2:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If I thought Maier had real upside potential
by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 3:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maier's value would skyrocket if
I don't recall why he made the switch, but it's odd that he went from behind the plate to being the best defensive outfielder in our system. With his speed and OBP I could see him as a Jason Kendall-lite type player, which would be an upgrade over the other two options backing up Buck.
by marbotty on Dec 5, 2007 1:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Quick question
by lordbyronk on Dec 4, 2007 2:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Gathright?
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 2:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Gotta be Teahen
by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 2:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
see
by Matty486 on Dec 4, 2007 2:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I know it is all rumor
by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 2:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by eboston on Dec 4, 2007 2:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Lots of rumors, possibilities
DeJesus for Chuck James
Rangers also showing interest in DeJesus per Rotoworld.
Royals still in the hunt for A. Jones. No one seems to be offering him more than 2 years so far. Maybe the Royals could get him for 3/45.
Kuroda - MLB.com's believes that the first team to offer Kuroda a 4-year deal might land him. So far, despite one earlier report, no team has offered him more than 3 years.
by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 2:33 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
In the office of GMDM I trust
by DC Royal on Dec 4, 2007 2:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And age
by lordbyronk on Dec 4, 2007 2:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The reason I like Kuroda
Igawa: 88-91 FB, above average change, average slider
Kuroda: 91-93 FB, plus forkball, plus shuuto, average change
Kuroda has more plus pitches and an arsenal and approach which is better for the majors. Igawa's out pitch was an elevated low-90's fastball. It had no movement and is pretty easy to hit. If it isn't several inches out of the strike zone, it is a HR. Kuroda's out pitch is the forkball or shuuto and it is much harder to turn mistakes with those pitches into HR's or line drives.
by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 2:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Kuroda
"Bidding apparently is going wild on Japanese pitcher Hiroki Kuroda. Word in the lobby was that he may get $45 million for three years. The Mariners and Royals -- yes, the Royals again -- are said to be among the many teams pursuing him." I like the idea of a no 3-4 pitcher, but this seems a little steep ...
by thefinerev on Dec 4, 2007 3:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
we're famous!
by FireBell on Dec 4, 2007 3:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Santana Mayhem!
by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 3:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Nate McLouth
by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 3:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I like him a lot
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 3:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He'd be a nice CFer to have
by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 3:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually
by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 3:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I went to lunch
by CentralChamps2009 on Dec 4, 2007 3:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
There's a lesson in that
Pesonally, I fast throughout the winter meetings so that I don't miss anything. Chamber pot too.
by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 3:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
DDJ for James
According to the KC Star's Bob Dutton, the Jose Guillen signing puts the Royals in a better position to trade David DeJesus or Joey Gathright. The Rangers and Braves are on DeJesus' trail. Dutton believes the Braves offered up lefty Chuck James for him. It seems a little light, as I'm not sure James could be effective in the American League.
Dutton says not only is Hiroki Kuroda looking for four years, he may want $48MM. The Royals could move on and spend the money on Andruw Jones instead, if he'll take a one or two-year deal. The money could also be diverted to Carlos Silva if he'll take 4/40. Otherwise the Royals will just chase rehab guys like Jason Jennings, Kris Benson, and Matt Clement.
From MLBTR
by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 3:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
DeJesus and James
by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 3:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I tend to agree
by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 3:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I bet Moore is saying that to
by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 3:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No thanks
I like the idea of a Guillen-DeJesus-Teahen outfield for 2008. All three are average to above average offensively and are all excellent defensive OFers. I wouldn't mess with that at all unless the Braves are willing to offer a throw-in with James.
by DarthYoshi on Dec 4, 2007 3:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why no thanks?
by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 3:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The "no thanks"
by DarthYoshi on Dec 4, 2007 3:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Guillen is a poor defender
But, yeah, James straight up for DeJesus is a bad idea.
by Gopherballs on Dec 4, 2007 3:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
UZR...
by Billex Gordler on Dec 4, 2007 6:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Excellent point
Guillen is not a plus defender, but he's certainly adequate for a corner OF spot with a cannon for an arm.
by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 6:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not any more
I know the Ichiro comment is just repeating what Joe Sheehan said about BRAA, but UZR had Ichiro as one of the worst CF in the AL, so that explanation does not work.
by Gopherballs on Dec 4, 2007 6:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
this is why I've been making Vlademil comparisons
by marbotty on Dec 5, 2007 1:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
With additional OF help on the way with Guillen and perhaps AJ, DDJ for a starter and another player is a good deal.
by daveyork on Dec 4, 2007 5:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
chuck james sucks
by wildthang on Dec 4, 2007 6:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
in another season
by FireBell on Dec 4, 2007 3:13 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'll take good players from any team
by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 3:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
KC Star story..
by thejosephboys on Dec 4, 2007 3:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
It was $33.6 million in another report
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 3:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Odd
http://www.kansascity.com/485/story/388943.html
by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 3:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
$33.6MM
by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 3:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nevermind
by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 3:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
About as much guilt as I feel
by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 3:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm
by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 3:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Winter Meetings are better than the Trade Deadline
by royalsreview on Dec 4, 2007 3:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Rumors
Also, the Dodgers are in heavy on Bedard it appears. Looks like Kemp and Broxton would be the center pieces for that deal.
by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 3:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Kevin Goldstein on Royals rumors
NYRoyal (New York, NY): Quick thoughts about a couple current rumors: David DeJesus for Chuck James; Mark Teahen for Matt Murton.
Kevin Goldstein: Can't see either happening.
He didn't say why, so that doesn't tell us much of anything.
by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 3:28 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Wow
by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 3:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
haha...
by royalsreview on Dec 4, 2007 3:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agree completely
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 3:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Teahen and Murton
by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 3:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Watched Theriot play 6 times last year
The other problem is he is young and gritty...more like someone you'd see playing for Buddy Bell in 8 years or so after he's totally washed up.
by Sisquatch Kids on Dec 4, 2007 3:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Trade Gathright, Not DeJesus
If we can get anywhere near the same return, trade Gathright.
by paleblueeyes on Dec 4, 2007 3:44 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely agree
by cookierojas73 on Dec 4, 2007 4:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
likely would be exposed in the A.L.
by BeefyTaco on Dec 4, 2007 4:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We need mediocre starters
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 4:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
DeJesus has more value than that
by cookierojas73 on Dec 4, 2007 4:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I love DJ
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 4:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I have yet to figure out why KC
by daveyork on Dec 4, 2007 5:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Whose to say KC "likes him so much"
You'd rather trade Gathright than DeJesus. Ok. I'd rather trade Aviles than DeJesus, but we're not going to get much for Aviles, you know what I mean?
by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 5:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Problem with this
by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 5:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather have Maier out there than Gathy
by marbotty on Dec 5, 2007 1:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Now we're talking
by royaldaddy on Dec 4, 2007 3:44 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
SOSA???
* The Royals have expressed some interest in Sammy Sosa, according to a source. Sosa has the same agent as Jose Guillen, Adam Katz, and the two sides are trying to determine dollar figures that make sense.
from espn.com blog
by Orphancow on Dec 4, 2007 3:59 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Pinch hitter?
by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 4:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Is there room for Sosa on the roster?
For the Royals to be pursuing Sosa would make absolutely no sense whatsoever. Sounds like the agent is trying to create some sort of buzz re. Sammy. AT least that's what I hope. Or, Dayton has lost his mind.
by cookierojas73 on Dec 4, 2007 4:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm guessing it is just meaningless buzz
by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 4:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not nessissarily
by Sisquatch Kids on Dec 4, 2007 4:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Say it ain't Sosa
* The Royals have expressed interest in Sammy Sosa, according to a source. Sosa has the same agent as Jose Guillen, Adam Katz, and the two sides are trying to determine some financial numbers that make sense.
by cookierojas73 on Dec 4, 2007 4:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Sorry for the duplication
by cookierojas73 on Dec 4, 2007 4:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i'd take crippled sweeney over sosa.
by 390 on Dec 4, 2007 4:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 4:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sosa can only DH or PH
by daveyork on Dec 4, 2007 5:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Talk about an unlikable outfield
by BeefyTaco on Dec 4, 2007 4:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The latest
by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 4:13 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Wow
by cookierojas73 on Dec 4, 2007 4:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Problem is
by lordbyronk on Dec 4, 2007 4:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Check out his splits
by Gopherballs on Dec 4, 2007 4:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Kuroda
by eboston on Dec 4, 2007 4:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Jayson Stark sez
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 4:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If I am GMDM with that offer on the table,
by daveyork on Dec 4, 2007 5:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Kuroda
by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 4:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If 4/45 has been really been offered
Now, throw a 3/45 offer at Jones. If that doesn't work, go for 3/48 or 4/56.
by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 4:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously
by eboston on Dec 4, 2007 4:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not so easy to get a Jones deal done
by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 5:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Dayton is smarter than that
by Sisquatch Kids on Dec 4, 2007 4:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's as far as I go
Time to look elsewhere, I'd say.
by cookierojas73 on Dec 4, 2007 4:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Kuroda again
Jon Heyman at SI is saying Kuroda might even go for 3/45. The years sound right, but at $15 million per? It was nice thinking about Kuroda in Royals blue, but like the rest of y'all have said, I hope Moore passes on Kuroda for that price.
by DarthYoshi on Dec 4, 2007 6:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sosa
by Skirra on Dec 4, 2007 4:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Ridiculous Hop
by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 4:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
even with cork
by 390 on Dec 4, 2007 4:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Will
by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 4:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Luis Vizcaino
by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 4:58 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
If we really want another middle reliever
I'm not against it, per se. I just don't think we need to invest in another reliever.
by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 5:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not for Linebrink money
by Skirra on Dec 4, 2007 5:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sweeney
by eboston on Dec 4, 2007 5:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Sheehen on the Guillen signing
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=6971
To me, saying Guillen isn't good enough for the Royals to contend is all well and good, but who else are we supposed to be getting, exactly? It seems Joe would rather us beef up SS or get another, better, high-OBP OF. I'm just not seeing where that is supposed to come from. And the Royals are trying to get another starting pitcher, so as long as Joe thinks the money isn't a problem, I don't understand the critique. Who were we supposed to spend the money on? The SP market is horribly weak, you don't want to go above 4/45 for Kuroda, and who really takes Carlos Silva seriously? We would likely needed to trade for a SP anyway, and then we need Guillen. I think this was a solid signing given the market and the Royals' needs.
by Eppenweb on Dec 4, 2007 5:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
It seems like Sheehan is saying
Guillen puts an above average bat at a corner OF position. We needed that despeately. His OBP is pretty good (better than .350 is 3 of the last 5 seasons) and he has legit power. He's not the "last piece of the puzzle," but he's a piece.
by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 5:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes - it is about building a better team
by daveyork on Dec 4, 2007 5:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Guillen, etc.
You saw similar comments with the Meche signing last year, that it was an odd move for a team so far away from contending. But seeing how much Meche improved this entire team last year, I think its unfair for analysts to immediately estimate the bottom line in every free agent signing. There's no 23 year old, high ceiling free agents out there - and these role players are bringing the Royals to a higher level, giving prospects a chance to develop (see: Hochevar). Having a league-average starter was a crucial step in the Royals' pitching development just as having a league-average corner outfielder is another crucial step in this team becoming league average.
And all of that said, it didn't seem to me that he was that against the signing. If you can get any analyst in this free agent season to take a look at the deal and be fairly neutral about it, I think it's about as good a deal as you can get.
by Dodge Buck Night on Dec 4, 2007 5:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
exactly
If we land Jones, though, Guillen's signing suddenly looks a lot better (if that makes any sense).
by marbotty on Dec 5, 2007 1:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
apparently that does make sense
by marbotty on Dec 5, 2007 10:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
According to David O'Brien
by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 5:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Glad to hear this
by cookierojas73 on Dec 4, 2007 5:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed!
by paleblueeyes on Dec 4, 2007 6:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Will Carroll reporting Red Sox get Santana
This makes the Red Sox rotation this year something like:
Beckett
Santana (only the two best pitchers in the game)
Dice-K
Schilling (future HOFer)
Buchholtz (pitched a no-hitter as a rookie)
With Wakefield in long relief, Papelbon as closer, and Ellsbury, Youkilis, Pedroia, Lowell, Ortiz, Drew, Ramirez in the lineup.
Holy crap. The only even average positions on the team are catcher and SS. Could they challenge the regular-season record?
by Eppenweb on Dec 4, 2007 5:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Haven't seen anything else on that
by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 5:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Per Rosenthal
by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 5:46 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Royals might sign Mahay, trade Gobble
The Royals continue to be active on the free-agent market, contacting the agent for lefty reliever Ron Mahay shortly after reaching terms with outfielder Jose Guillen on Monday night. Mahay, 36, is also drawing interest from the Yankees, Giants and Astros. The chances that the Yankees sign Mahay would increase if they fail to land Johan Santana and decide to fortify their bullpen. The Royals currently have three left-handed relievers, but could trade Jimmy Gobble.
It doesn't surprise me that Gobble might be traded or included in a trade.
by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 5:49 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
NYR
by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 5:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You can have that one
by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 6:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I was just jokin man
by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 6:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
For most teams, the Winter Meetings
by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 6:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Can't argue with that
by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 6:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There's no need...
by cookierojas73 on Dec 4, 2007 6:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i am not a scout...
by royalsreview on Dec 4, 2007 6:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
My only thinking is that GMDM has a few suitors for Gobble in a separate trade and thus needs another LOOGY. Poor decision making if we end up with both of them on opening day though.
by DC Royal on Dec 4, 2007 7:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's about improving the team
by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 7:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What I don't get
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 8:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fun exercise
Jimmy Gobble for Ron Mahay
Joey Gathright for Jason Tyner
Mark Teahen for Mark Murton
David DeJesus for Milton Bradley
Ryan Braun for a pitching machine
Angel Berroa for the rotting corpse of Cristian Guzman
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 8:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
actually most of those trades are losing ones
by marbotty on Dec 5, 2007 1:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Royals opinion of Chuck James
Also, I'm told by someone with Royals that they view Chuck James as a "breakdown waiting to happen" because of his size, delivery, etc. They're not interested it trading anything valuable for him, if interested in him at all....
I haven't seen him pitch much, but if he has a delivery which puts undo stress on his arm/shoulder/elbow, I don't like that at all.
by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 5:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Atlanta bloggers view of him
by Sisquatch Kids on Dec 4, 2007 6:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
weird
Of course, if he's got mechanical problems, it's probably a good idea to pass. Of course, that's what they said about Lincecum.
by marbotty on Dec 5, 2007 1:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Davies and James
by NYRoyal on Dec 5, 2007 1:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
White Sox or Tigers getting Cabrera
The White Sox deal would strip their rotation and top prospects. It would really, really hurt that team for years.
by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 6:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
White Sox
Also, the supposed Tigers/Marlins deal would send Maybin, Miller and 4 others to Florida for Miggy and Willis.
by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 6:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The stories are changing by the minute
by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 6:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Gammons at ESPN on Cabrera
by Eppenweb on Dec 4, 2007 6:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
That's what happens
by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 6:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Clarification: those are the 4 others
by Eppenweb on Dec 4, 2007 6:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
From Peter Gammons
by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 6:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
so long, andrew miller
by andrewmiller on Dec 4, 2007 6:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good point
by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 6:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Holy crap
CF Granderson
SS Renteria
3B Cabrera
DH Sheffield
RF Ordonez
1B Guillen
C Rodriguez
LF Jones/Thames
2B Polanco
Acquiring Willis isn't bad either. They essentially dump a 5th starter with upside (Miller) for an AL #3 starter.
Wow.
by DC Royal on Dec 4, 2007 7:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Miller
by Gopherballs on Dec 4, 2007 7:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They're betting
Man, that system is loaded. Here's hoping that's what the Royals' system looks like in a couple more years.
by CentralChamps2009 on Dec 4, 2007 7:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Be careful of Renteria
by Eppenweb on Dec 4, 2007 7:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Just asking
by royaldaddy on Dec 4, 2007 6:58 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
How long do the Tigers have Cabrera?
by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 7:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Gotta love the winter meetings
by DC Royal on Dec 4, 2007 7:13 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Just based on the teams now . . .
by Eppenweb on Dec 4, 2007 7:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
There was no way
by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 7:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
by DC Royal on Dec 4, 2007 7:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And think about this . . .
by Eppenweb on Dec 4, 2007 7:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Are we against 4 years for Kuroda?
Would a bigger 3 (3/40?) or an extra year (4/44) be acceptable?
(I know there's a whole string of Kuroda comments somewhere up above, but I'm just too tired to try to find it right now).
by CentralChamps2009 on Dec 4, 2007 7:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Who knows what is going on with Kuroda now
by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 7:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
guillen/royals article
NASHVILLE, Tenn. - And out somewhere on the periphery of the Johan Santana watch came a free-agent signing that involved not the Yankees, not the Red Sox, not any team with legitimate World Series aspirations or the wherewithal to sell out their stadium.
The Kansas City Royals.
Jose Guillen.
the rest is here
by teahen24 on Dec 4, 2007 7:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
the marriage of the irrelevant and the irreverant
by royalsreview on Dec 4, 2007 8:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think we would be better off to scrap
by royaldaddy on Dec 4, 2007 8:13 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
My thoughts exactly!
by Sisquatch Kids on Dec 4, 2007 8:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wait, hang on...
by stuckinstl12 on Dec 4, 2007 9:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
FWIW
2003 - 117
2004 - 112
2005 - 136
2006 - 126
2007 - 88
Obviously 2007 sticks out like a sore thumb, but I think most would agree that last year was a fluke. Yeah, maybe he would have declined a little from 2006, but that kind of a drop isn't normal and should not be expected to continue.
by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 9:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Rangers have pitchers?
by lordbyronk on Dec 4, 2007 9:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A little more
by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 9:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Volquez. That's the kid's name.
by royaldaddy on Dec 4, 2007 9:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Diamond
by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 9:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A couple prospects for DeJesus
by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 9:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
DDJ for Volquez straight up?
'06 inn hts wk so
OKL(AAA) 120.2 86 72 130
'07
TEX(AA) 58.1 46 19 62
OKL(AAA) 51.0 25 21 66
MLB 34 34 15 29
Sorry if the figures don't line up, I got really tired of trying to preview this. Anyway, you catch the drift. Monster AAA numbers (PCL yet) waaay too many walks, but BIG ceiling. I would much rather gamble DDJ on a potential #1, than the $40 mil on a Japanese pitcher who will suffer extreme culture shock when he arrives in Saskatchewan, er KC and not even be a serviceable #5. Hey, you wanna play with the Tigers, ya gotta man up.
by Yoda on Dec 4, 2007 10:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Had to redo the stats, too dog ugly
OKL(AAA) 120.2 86 72 130
'07
TEX(AA) 58.1 46 19 62
OKL(AAA) 51.0 25 21 66
MLB 34 34 15 29
by Yoda on Dec 4, 2007 10:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I liked his stats this year
DeJesus on the other hand is a proven major league player. Proven OBP skills, proven defensive abilities, shown decent power in some seasons. He's not a risk; he's a known quantity. He's also locked down for a cheap, multi-year contract. That all makes him very valuable.
In short, DeJesus is worth more than Volquez. Moore could and should get more for DeJesus. If he tries, he easily could.
by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 11:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, times change,
by Yoda on Dec 4, 2007 11:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He's a good prospect
At the end of this coming year I will politely point out your mistake or I will, sigh, admit defeat.
How would we measure my mistake or your defeat? How well do you think he'll pitch in the majors in 2008?
And, even if Volquez becomes good in the future, that doesn't mean Moore should take as little as Volquez for DeJesus right now. If he can get more than one good pitching prospect, then he must.
by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 11:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You're right
by Yoda on Dec 4, 2007 11:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I'd take that
by royaldaddy on Dec 4, 2007 11:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Massive bounty?
DeJesus is a good Major Leauge CFer. Defense, speed, OBP. He's not a prospect. He's not a risk. Every pitching prospect is a significant risk. DeJesus is worth a lot more than Volquez plus a throw-in.
by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 11:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What do you want for him?
by royaldaddy on Dec 5, 2007 12:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What can we get for DeJesus?
I agree with most of that. I would disagree with the "not that great on the basepaths." He's a good baserunner, just not a particularly good base stealer. If he were a corner OFer, he wouldn't be anything special. But he's a CFer with good CF defense. And his hitting is very good for a CFer. In addition to his high OBP, he has pretty good power for a CFer. His SLG over the last three years has been .445, .446 and .372. Last year obviously wasn't good but the prior two showed significantly more power than the average CFer.
So I think the Royals could get a very good young player for him. And that doesn't mean a prospect largely untested in the majors. I'm talking about someone who has had at least 450 major league at bats or 125 innings pitched and shown that they can handle playing at this level. So I'm looking for a good young player with some real upside potential, but not a risky prospect.
DeJesus's main assets are that he is a proven good player and he's inexpensive for multiple years. He's very, very low risk. He's who can play CF for you right now, leadoff your lineup and score 100 runs and very little risk that he would fail or even disappoint. And he'll do it very inexpensively for the next four years. His contract makes him a ridiculous bargain.
by NYRoyal on Dec 5, 2007 12:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you should be his agent :)
by royaldaddy on Dec 5, 2007 1:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
More DeJesus
No, I want someone with upside potential who has actually shown something in the majors. I'm not talking about a proven major leaguer with a significant track record. But someone who has actually done something in the majors to show that they are more than just a prospect.
Just because Volquez hasn't had the MLB innings as some others, doesn't mean that he doesn't have the potential to be great.
True, but DeJesus has enough value to get someone who is more than pure, untested major league potential. And, as far as potential goes, Volquez is a good pitching prospect, but not a great one. There are probably some pitching prospects I'd trade DeJesus for, elite prospects, but Volquez isn't one of them.
We have to take some risks. Remember, we are the Royals.
Yes, we have to take some risks. And trading DeJesus for a less experienced player with potential is a risk I support. But trading him for a mere prospect (and not an elite prospect) who is very much untested in the majors is reckless. It is also a mistake to trade DeJesus for a prospect like Volquez when we could get more. And we can.
Dejesus could net something really great if we package him with a Billy Buckner or Jimmy Gobble IMO.
And I'm all for that. I've suggested some DeJesus trade scenarios since midseason 2007. But if we trade DeJesus, we need to maximize the return. One pretty good pitching prospect and a throw-in would be underselling DeJesus greatly.
by NYRoyal on Dec 5, 2007 1:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Santana-Boston
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/thebuzz/
by royalsreview on Dec 4, 2007 8:44 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Santana
by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 11:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Late Rule V rumor
Royals outfielder Chris Lubanski to the Marlins with the fourth overall selection. Lubanski, the fifth overall pick in 2003, was touted for his speed and developing power early in his career. He's still just 22, and a lot of teams have him on their Rule 5 radar for that reason more than anything else, but the fact is that Lubanski isn't a plus runner anymore as he's grown into his frame. He's not even above-average. "This is a fringe-average runner for me," said one AL scouting director. And Lubanski didn't do himself any favors in the Arizona Fall League, often making weak contact and wound up hitting .200/.266/.412 in 85 at-bats.
by CentralChamps2009 on Dec 4, 2007 11:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think he can stick with Florida all year, too
by marbotty on Dec 5, 2007 2:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Trading DeJesus pointless
Otherwise, we're back to where we were at the beginning of the season: only two competent OF's. Gathright/Maier are probably 4th outfielders at best -- but if Guillen and Jones are in the lineup their offensive shortcomings are much more hidden. Still, Guillen, Jones, Teahen our best option.
by marbotty on Dec 5, 2007 2:49 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
This wouldn't be just about 2008
by NYRoyal on Dec 5, 2007 9:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yet another rumour
by Yoda on Dec 5, 2007 10:19 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

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