Wake Me Up in 2010

by Freneau on Dec 5, 2007 1:14 AM EST in Kansas City Royals News

Remember when the AL Central always had some combination of two awful teams, two mediocre teams, and one OK team? At the turn of the century you could build an 83 win ballclub -- against an unbalanced, sissified AL Central schedule mind you -- in this division and be in the pennant race until the last week of the season Where are the sunlit pastures of our youth? Where are the snows of yesteryear?

Lets leave the Tigers and Indians out of it for a moment, and reduce the division to a battle between the ChiSox-Royals-Twins. Could the Royals win that mini-division in 2008? Could they win it in 2009?

Its hard to say given the state of flux the Twins seem to be in and the perpetual state of bizarreness that the ChiSox are in. Know this however: the Twins are just as old-school savvy as the Royals dream of being, and will soon have a new stadium, and the White Sox are in a unique market position that will likely prevent them from truly bottoming out. They suffered a nightmare last season, and still won more games than the Royals.

And then there's the Rust Belters in Detroit and Cleveland. Its hard to imagine a scenario that produces the Royals surpassing both of them by 2009. Worse still, like the White Sox, the Tigers can and will spend money, and the Indians are one of the smartest teams in the game.

Unfairly, though of course this is not the right word, the Tigers and Indians both his rock bottom with only mediocre teams above them. The Royals do not have that luxury.

The Winter Meetings Day Three Open Thread will be up in the morning...

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add 10 more wildcard teams

problem solved

by marbotty on Dec 5, 2007 1:25 AM EST reply actions

The White Sox have some problems

They have some guys who are injury prone. They also have more question marks in their rotation this year than in years past. But, the worst thing they have against them is that bullpen. I remember that bullpen. We used to have it (aside from fatass Bobby Jenks in the ninth). I think we're a better team than they are, especially if we pick up Jones. But, the Twins, if they get Lowrie, Lester +, could be tough now. I was hoping they would sit and watch the division get better. Not happening. They want to be competitive next year. The Indians seem to have something brewing to get better (but they always do) and what do you say about the Tigers? Wow! They are wanting an ALCS matchup with the Red Sox next year and I can't say I wouldn't want to see it. They are the kings of the mountain right now. They are daring anyone else in the division to try to knock them off. We just aren't there yet. To answer your question, I'm not sure when we'll be there, but I'm holding out hope.

by royaldaddy on Dec 5, 2007 1:30 AM EST reply actions

Perspective, please

A lot can and will happen between now and 2009 and 2010. I know it is always tempting for Royals fans to just throw up their hands and declaire that all is lost. The Royals are improving and moving in the right direction. Not everything will go right for Detroit, Cleveland, Minnesota and Chicago. And the acquisition of two years of Miguel Cabrera is not the end of the world. And if someone thinks Dontrelle Willis is going to do well in the AL, I'd like them to explain that to me, please. Given what became of him in the NL and the talent differences between the two leagues (and the DH), I see Dontrelle as an ok #4 starter in the AL.

I probably disagree with you.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 5, 2007 1:43 AM EST reply actions

Willis may not be the ideal AL starter

but, with Detroit's huge stadium, he wound up with the perfect AL team. Remember, at best Willis is the Tigers #3. I agree with you, but you must admit that Detroit is one of the AL teams that Willis might thrive with.

by royaldaddy on Dec 5, 2007 1:51 AM EST up reply actions

Stadium and division

On the plus side, he's pitching half of his games in a pitcher's stadium. On the minus side, he's going to be pitching in possibly the best division in baseball. Tough competition and tough ballparks. When he was with the Marlins, he got to pitch a lot of games in his home stadium, Shea and Turner Field. All good pitcher's parks. Now he's going to have to pitch a lot of games in the Metrodome, Jacobs Field and Kauffman Stadium. To one degree or another, all hitter's parks.

Whether he is the third best starter or not, I think he's going to give you the results of a typical #4 starter.

I probably disagree with you.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 5, 2007 1:57 AM EST up reply actions

yea, but whats changed is...

in the past the idea was, "we can't compete in this market"

now, i just think its a damn tough division, with basically everyone ahead of us

by Freneau on Dec 5, 2007 11:40 AM EST up reply actions

I would have to agree

with that assessment. Not that either point really has holes in it though.

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 5, 2007 11:51 AM EST up reply actions

The White Sox are ahead of us?

Golly gee. I really hope not.

"True friends stab you in the front."-Oscar Wilde.

by NHZ on Dec 5, 2007 3:18 PM EST up reply actions

No, definitely not

Thin rotation, poor bullpen, mediocre and aging offense. There is big trouble in the windy city.

I probably disagree with you.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 5, 2007 3:54 PM EST up reply actions

Golly gee

He said, "basically" every one is ahead of us. Now while the White Sox may not look too pretty heading into 2008, they did finish ahead of us last year. If you want to be better than somebody then you have to actually do better than that somebody.

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 5, 2007 4:19 PM EST up reply actions

I sympathize with Toronto right now.

They're a much bigger market, sure, but they are like us in that they keep trying to improve, generally make smart moves, and yet see the prime teams in their division pulling farther and farther away from them by being smart with more money. We have it even worse than them, because of the 4 other AL Central teams, I count only one possibly incompetent front office (Chicago White Sox, come on down!) So while we don't have the Yankee-Red Sox empires to deal with, we do have four dukedoms that are going to be hard to overcome. If DM can pull this off, he really will have accomplished something special.

by Eppenweb on Dec 5, 2007 2:17 AM EST reply actions

In the AL East...

I think only the Baltimore front office can be labeled as certifiably incompetent. Tampa Bay has done at least a few things right, like digging up Carlos Pena.

by DarthYoshi on Dec 5, 2007 3:34 AM EST up reply actions

It's so easy to look at teams on paper, and get

scared. The Tigers are just a few injuries away from being a bunch of big bats. Just think - say Rogers gets hurt again (quite likely), Verlander gets hurt (could happen) and Bonderman is ineffective, and Willis gets shelled in the AL. All these things could very easily happen, and oh yeah, their bullpen isn't superhuman either. It's all about the pitching, Detroit has gotten better offensively this offseason but I'm not convinced they have pitchingwise. I think trading Andrew Miller was a mistake.

We'll see.

winning records follow good bullpens

by slayor on Dec 5, 2007 4:41 AM EST reply actions

A lot can happen

if we land Jones our team will be significantly improved and that is something. A .500 season should be an easily attained realistic goal, now whether that places us higher than 4th remains to be seen, because I see the Twins improving too, especially long term. Tigers bullpen is suspect not that they are done improving their team by any means. I think we have good management in place to make the right decisions. Other than that, time will tell. Too many injuries, trades, etc can happen between now and 2010. Hold out for hope. If anything I just find it exciting that we are in the thick of things on every FA signing. It's fun to watch.

by lordbyronk on Dec 5, 2007 6:19 AM EST reply actions

Open thread not up yet

So fun news goes here:

Per Flanagan, Craig Brazell is Seibu Lion! He's gonna make $900,000 to slug in Japan next year. Congrats and good luck, Brazell-san!

by CentralChamps2009 on Dec 5, 2007 9:14 AM EST reply actions

That should have said

"Brazell is A Seibu Lion" I wasn't going for a cheap laugh.

by CentralChamps2009 on Dec 5, 2007 9:15 AM EST up reply actions

Fukudome

According to Newsday (relayed via MLB Rumors), it's down to the Royals and Cubs for his services. That's interesting. Thoughts?

I don't fight extra players.

by paleblueeyes on Dec 5, 2007 10:10 AM EST reply actions

Very interesting...

If you had Teahen, Guillen and this guy in the outfield no one would ever go 1st to 3rd. DeJesus then gets traded for a starter and we're in business.

by djk royal on Dec 5, 2007 10:21 AM EST up reply actions

I'm convinced that we need to get another OF

or 1st Baseman/DH with a big bat, otherwise the Guillen signing may as well be throwing money away, because we're unlikely to compete without it.

I'm not convinced Fukudome's going to be a great hitter -- I sort of see him as Brian Giles post-trade to San Diego type of player -- but if we get him that means that we can then flip either DeJesus or Teahen (whichever we don't want playing center) for a ML ready pitching prospect. (e.g. Chuck James -- not a great bounty by himself, but certainly should be an upgrade over DLR at #4).

In essence, we'd be improving at three positions in doing so: two corner outfielders and one of our starting rotation candidates. Suddenly a shot at .500 doesn't seem so crazy.

by marbotty on Dec 5, 2007 10:22 AM EST up reply actions

Two of the same clubs

that went hard after Meche last year. (I guess the Blue Jays know to stay out of the Royals' way these days.)

Coincidence of similar needs? Or do the two pitchers have similar profiles? If Kuroda is anywhere near as effective as Meche was last year, that's money well spent.

Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!

by cmkeller on Dec 5, 2007 10:28 AM EST up reply actions

Ignore my stupid post

For some reason, I thought the post I responded said Kuroda, not Fukudome.

Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!

by cmkeller on Dec 5, 2007 10:30 AM EST up reply actions

Opps,

I opened a diary about this before I read the open thread.

I love the news.

Rock Chalk Talk for pretty good KU College Baseball Coverage

by James Quinn on Dec 5, 2007 11:00 AM EST up reply actions

Rumors:

First on the Guillen signing:

JoPo not a fan of the Guillen signing

Rob Neyer not a fan of the Guillen signing; Rany more optimistic

Riske officially signs with Milwuakee - 3 years $13 million, we get a compensation pick

The Mets "are not one of the four finalists for" Hiroki Kuroda, according to the New York Post. The Mariners, Dodgers, Diamondbacks and Royals have all been linked pretty heavily to Kuroda.

New York Newsday reports that Kosuke Fukudome "has narrowed his choices to the Royals and Cubs."
The Padres had reportedly offered Kosuke Fukudome a three-year deal. MLB.com believes it was worth $8 million per year.

Hillman impressed by Fukudome

Internet rumor has the Royals offering a deal to Aaron Rowand. Royals Scout

Baseball America looks at the Rule 5 rumors and says the Marlins may draft Chris Lubanski.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 5, 2007 10:28 AM EST reply actions

Nice stuff...thanks

Great way to start my morning...Royals Winter Meetings Rumors!

I'd rather be watching baseball.

by Sisquatch Kids on Dec 5, 2007 10:34 AM EST up reply actions

Royals-Rowand rumor

From the Chicago-Tribune

The Cabrera trade could accelerate talks involving Sox attempts to deal third baseman Joe Crede and perhaps take another shot at free-agent center fielder Aaron Rowand. Williams, however, remained reluctant to give a five-year contract to Rowand, who is entertaining an offer from Kansas City.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 5, 2007 11:11 AM EST up reply actions

Rowand

I know we have all talked about our thoughts on Rowand and the consensus seemed to be that he would be too expensive. But if, for some reason, he came at a better price, then would everyone back that deal? What would be an acceptable offer in your mind?

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 5, 2007 11:14 AM EST up reply actions

Signing Rowand would be a huge mistake

"I'm tired of all these stupid a$$ questions every day. Why the f**k would I hit Brett for Miller?" The rest is history.

by DC Royal on Dec 5, 2007 11:14 AM EST up reply actions

To clarify my thoughts

To think that Rowand will come at a discount is wishful thinking. He had a career year last year in the band box that is Citizens Bank Park (an extreme home run park), and he's oft-injured. If we're going to go after a CF, I'd prefer pursuing Jones.

"I'm tired of all these stupid a$$ questions every day. Why the f**k would I hit Brett for Miller?" The rest is history.

by DC Royal on Dec 5, 2007 11:15 AM EST up reply actions

Rob and Rany

About the only thing Rob said that would really give me pause about the Guillen signing was if it meant the Royals wouldn't have the money to lock up Gordon and Butler long-term...which I think we will. We've basically swapped Sweeney's salary for Guillen's and Riske's for Yabuta's. Reggie Sanders, Scott Elarton, and Odalis Perez have all come off the books. Plus, the Royals have shown with some players, like DeJesus, that they know how to lock up valuable talent long term when they want to. If the Guillen signing would somehow prevent us from signing Gordon and Butler to long-term deals in a few years (I dunno when those two become free agents), I'll be pretty upset. But I doubt it'll come to that.

by DarthYoshi on Dec 5, 2007 1:06 PM EST up reply actions

Signing of Guillen is an upgrade

for the Royals lineup. I love the comments from the experts who say "23HRs and 99 RBIs" is just average production for an outfielder. Do we forget how awful the Royals offense was in 2007? 23 HRs would make Guillen the best run producer by far. KC's RBI leader (Brownie) in 2007 had 62 RBIs and HR leader (Buck) had 18 HRs. If Guillen can have his career average stats for the next years, he will improve the Royals lineup. Adding another offensive player could help produce another 10 wins.

You got to start somewhere and don't sound like KC is done yet. Any team that has Ross Gload batting 3rd most of the year has to get better quickly.

by daveyork on Dec 5, 2007 1:31 PM EST up reply actions

Royals clearly emerging

as the 3rd place team in AL Central.

On the bright side, if they can find a way to pass either Detroit or Cleveland in a few years, that very easily could mean a playoff berth.

I don't see Minnesota or the White Sox being all that good for the next few seasons...

by loyal2s dad on Dec 5, 2007 11:03 AM EST reply actions

Day 3 Open Thread

Wake up Will, we need a new thread for today. I will go insane at work if I can't spend all day posting unlikely rumors.

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 5, 2007 11:07 AM EST reply actions

How will the AL impact Cabrera?

Since we're talking about how much the Tigers are improved by the addition of Cabrera and Willis, I thought I'd make note of a recent "Unfiltered" post at BP's blog. Here are his preliminary PECOTA projections for 2008:

NL - half of his games at Dolphin Stadium
Year Club LG BA OBP SLG
2008 FLO NL .316 .399 .561

AL - half of his games at Comerica Park
Year Club LG BA OBP SLG
2008 DET AL .304 .381 .523

So, he's still very good in the AL, but he loses 56 points of OPS.

I probably disagree with you.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 5, 2007 4:36 PM EST reply actions