Winter Meetings Day 4/ Rule 5 Draft Open Thread
According to reports Andruw Jones has signed with the Dodgers, bringing the Official Gold Club Andruw Jones Royals Watch ™ to a close. Maybe it was his own desire to do so, but it amazes me that Jones only got a two year deal, when lesser players at the same position have received much more security. With Jones apparently signed, it appears possibilities regarding the final day of the Winter Meetings have now withered down to seeing if anything happens with Bedard and Haren, and every team wondering if their guy will produce one of those out-of-the-blue signings. All in all, we've only had one exciting day out of three so far, and while the Rule 5/Rule V Draft will produce its share of buzz, I've always found the prospect game to be only a placeholder of sorts. Then again, we've got our own bit of Lubanski drama to track I suppose, and the whole occasion will be a nice excuse to remember Dayton's pickup of Soria, still the man's best move to date. Nevertheless, this year, the Royals might not even participate.
• Rob Neyer's handy transactions guide is a nice place to start on the rules of the Rule 5 Draft. I've also always enjoyed Neyer's crusade against the use of roman numerals here, "First off, note that it's not the "Rule V Draft," but the Rule 5 draft. It's called the Rule 5 draft because the section of the Official Rules that covers the draft just happens to be Rule 5 in the book.
• The Royals aren't concerned about Guillen's past, so don't even bring it up, ok!?!
• With the Royals hanging around the Kuroda and Fukudome chases, our Eppenweb suggests Hillman is a reason why.
• The Mets have entered the Santana fray.
• Rosenthal beats the drum for Santana-to-Seattle.
• Scott Rolen wants out in St. Louis, Tony La Russa says, essentially, "go to hell". Not to go all Scoop Jackson on you, but Rolen should be thankful he's a good ole boy from the midwest: he's hurt all the time, hates his manager, and is trying to force a trade. Yet, I've not seen too many "injury-prone malcontent" stories.
• Don't sleep on Cleveland just yet either, they might be out of the Bay talks with the Pirates, but I doubt they'll stand still.
• Christina Kahrl is chatting today at BP.
You know the drill friends. When you read, hear, smell a rumor or a deal, post it here in the hope of eliciting instant feedback from your peers...
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That sucks about Jones
least we forget...
"UPDATE, 12-6-07 at 1:14am: The salary structure to Jones' deal is interesting: $9MM in '08, $15MM in '09, and a $12MM signing bonus. That setup could make Jones much more tradeable if the need arises."
So essentially 21 million bucks this year.
I wanted him too, but that's an awful lot of money.
Heh,
really?
That aside, considering the relative disinterest by the majority of the MLB, this looks to me like the Vlad Guerrero signing all over again.
Remember how few teams were willing to roll the dice due to Vlad's back issues, and then he came back and had as good a year as ever? I think we'll see the same thing out of Jones.
I'm actually quite despondent over this signing. Especially when the Dodgers are paying less for his services than we are for Guillen's.
Granted, it's for one fewer year. But Andruw and Boras were actually looking for more years on the offer. So maybe we would have signed him to a 3 yr/50 million contract? Or 4/65? Perhaps.
I'm really hoping the desire to play for an NL excuse was the reason he signed elsewhere, even though I don't quite understand why, as a centerfielder, Jones really would have a preference one way or the other. Otherwise, it appears to be a lack of willingness on the part of Moore to really pursue the guy.
I agree
Eh?
2003 142
2004 121
2005 116
2006 75 (TJ Surgery at ASB)
2007 116
As far as Jones goes, I suspect it was either two years or 4/5...that was he taps FA quickly.
by BlueEyesAustin on Dec 6, 2007 9:25 AM EST up reply actions
You can tear down my argument, and you
- I don't think any GMs were willing to look at Jones and say "lock him up long term" because of his most recent season. This does NOT mean their right, but that seems to be the prevailing wisdom.
- IF Jones just had an off-year, and we can expect him to bounce back reasonably well, then giving him a two year deal is not the best way of going about things, but again, I don't think anyone was looking at giving him a 3 or 4 (with anywhere near enough money)or he would've signed it.
- IF the Royals were only going to get him for two years--and again, I'm speculating a bit that that was the going contract for him--then is it worth it at all to pay him the 15-20 mil a season? Remember, to win the division in 2009 the Royals have to pick up 20-25 games in the standings. "How much do you value Jones?" is part of the question, but also it's "how quickly can the Royals make up ground?" because if he's only going to be there for two years and force the Royals to give up a draft pick, he's basically a "win in 2009" acquisition.
by NHZ on Dec 6, 2007 9:39 PM EST up reply actions
I apologize if that came across as argumentative
I'd take Jones over Guillen
We still need more offense. It's time to seal the deal with Fukudome. If not, we'll probably have to package DeJesus with a pitcher for another offensive bat.
Aaaannd we really need another starting pitcher as well.
Every small-market team should take the Rule V endeavor - it's a risk worth taking. I'll be disappointed if we simply throw our hands in the air and give up.
Lubanski? Hughes? Plummer? Will any of these men be taken? I'll guess 2 will be taken. Let's keep Smith happy (eye-roll).
Either way....regarding roster improvement....
We're not done, folks!
Royals taking a catcher?
Santangelo's a 22 year old catching prospect in the Houston organization who showed considerable pop in A and A+ (15+ homeruns annually) before stumbling in 2007.
Wondering why he only played in 58 games in 2007?
He tested positive for performance enhancing drugs! And now you know the rest of the story.
Cube is here: http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/S/Lou-Santangelo.shtml
wow
Worth pointing out that his seasonal age is actually 25.
My guess is that Tupman would be better in 2008, but Santangelo will be better in the long run ... but still not very good.
from the same article
For comparison's sake, here they are:
Eric Duncan, 22, 1B, NYY
Career Line: .250/.338/.428 (OPS: .766)
2007: .241/.323/.389 (.712) AAA Scranton
Summary: Despite great start to career in rookie ball, never lived up to the hype. Fortunately, he won't have to relocate for his future job at Dunder-Mifflin.
Kyle Sleeth, 25, P, Det
Career Line: 6.32 ERA, 1.61 WHIP, 6.59 K9
2007: 10.66 ERA, 2.61 WHIP, 4.26 K9 AA Erie
Summary: Former #3 in the draft a colossal failure. Actually walked 2 more batters per nine than he struck out in 2007.
Ryan Harvey, 22, OF, ChiC
Career Line: .252/.298/.456 (.754)
2007: .246/.269/.446 (.715) A+ Dayton
Summary: Never made it above A ball, but also never provided any reason to promote him.
Matt Moses, 22, OF, Min
Career Line: .257/.312/.391 (.703)
2007: .224/.244/.305 (.549) AAA Rochester
Summary: He stinks.
Jeff Allison, 23, P, Fla
Career Line: Powdery, white, and from Colombia
2007: Did not play
Summary: On account of his substance abuse problems, he keeps being described as the Josh Hamilton of this year's draft, which may be a stretch. He's got considerable talent, but he's a big mystery, having only pitched 2 seasons in the minors, the last being 2 years ago. Probably will get drafted by somebody.
Chris Lubanski, 22, OF, KC
Career Line: .284/.350/.471 (.821)
2007: .295/.361/.490 AA, .208/.273/.363 AAA
Summary: The Big Lubanski appears to be head and shoulders over the rest of his fellow 2003 draftees at this point, but his 50 game stint in Omaha a good indicator he may not be ready for the show. Sometimes you eat the b'ar, sometimes the b'ar eats you.
Is that some kind of Eastern thing?
Hey, good news, only a couple more hours until other people start posting again.
Great wrap up
worst draft ever
by FireBell on Dec 6, 2007 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
Jones may have preferred a 2 or 5 year deal
Yeah
by BlueEyesAustin on Dec 6, 2007 9:34 AM EST up reply actions
NYRoyal wins
Complete Rule 5 Draft
Rays take RHP Tim Lahey from Minnesota
Pirates take RHP Evan Meek from Tampa Bay
Orioles take RHP Randor Bierd from Detroit
Giants take RHP Jose Capellan from Colorado
Marlins take RHP Carlos Guevara from Cincinnati
Reds take RHP Sergio Valenzuela from Atlanta
Nats take 1B Matt Whitney from Cleveland
Astros take LHP Wes Wright from LA Dodgers
A's take RHP Fernando Hernandez from White Sox (I thought he was the best player available)
Cardinals take OF Brian Barton from Cleveland
Blue Jays take RHP Randy Wells from Chi. Cubs
Mariners take RHP R.A. Dickey from Minnesota
Mets take RHP Steve Register from Colorado
Padres take RHP Mike Gardner from NY Yankees
Phillies take LHP Travis Blackley from Giants
Round Two
Nats take OF Garrett Guzman from Minnesota
Padres take 2B Callix Crabbe (cool name!) from Milwaukee
Phillies take LHP Lincoln Holdkom from Boston
Round Three
No selections.
Not a great Rule 5 class
Ironically I went to school with Tim Lahey, the first pick in the Rule 5 draft. I didn't even know he was in the minors, much less as a pitcher. He was a power hitting catcher in college.
Royals take

Not much talent, but he's very gritty
by Scott McKinney on Dec 6, 2007 10:41 AM EST up reply actions
Dayton 1, fan bloggers 0
Guess he knew other GM's minds better than we did.
It's time for mea culpas
by Scott McKinney on Dec 6, 2007 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
I disagree
Jason Friggin Smith.
I disagree
by Scott McKinney on Dec 6, 2007 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
2008
However, I think it's a bit unfair to call Lubanski's chances at becoming a decent major leaguer "minuscule." The guy is 22 years old and seems to be progressing fairly consistently.
Lubanski
He has been progressing fairly consistently until he fell on his face in AAA. Hopefully he'll figure out how to be a good AAA player in 2008. I don't think there is much rason to have optimism about Lubanski.
by Scott McKinney on Dec 6, 2007 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
Lubanski is ours
by FireBell on Dec 6, 2007 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
I guess
I Like it...I Don't Like it
Good K to W ratio
Very low W/9 ratio
Solid innings eater
Dislike:
38 HR given up in 2006 over 180 innings!
Gives up quite a few hits
I wonder if his low walk rate is related to the fact that he gives up hits rather than walks when he's in a hitter's count. Looking at his splits that seems to be the case. He throws strikes when he's down in the count, resulting in more hits and less walks.
by Sisquatch Kids on Dec 6, 2007 10:52 AM EST up reply actions
He manages to succeed
by Scott McKinney on Dec 6, 2007 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
Marlins took
by CentralChamps2009 on Dec 6, 2007 10:37 AM EST reply actions
I promise I was writing this
by CentralChamps2009 on Dec 6, 2007 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
Royals interested in LaTroy Hawkins?
The Royals are one of at least three teams showing heightened interest in reliever LaTroy Hawkins, who went 2-5 with a 3.42 ERA last season in 62 games for the Rockies.
The Rangers and Rockies are also pursuing Hawkins, a 13-year veteran who pitched previously for the Twins, Cubs, Giants and Orioles before signing as a free agent last December with the Rockies.
Silva = average AL #3 starter
I agree
I think they are worth more than that
by Scott McKinney on Dec 6, 2007 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
No Silva, please
#1/#2 starting pitchers
Right now we've got very uncertain rookies for the 4th and 5th spots in the rotation. I wouldn't mind a good, solid, dependable #3-quality starter to pitch in one of those spots.
by Scott McKinney on Dec 6, 2007 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
True, but
My suggestion: Go after one of the reclamation projects for a 1 or 2 year deal with incentives and an option for another year if he's actually decent. That saves us from committing long-term when there's better out there next year.
Kuroda will be 33 by opening day...
That doesn't mean I think the Royals are wrong in pursuing him (he is still probably one of the best FA SP's on the market). I just think that isn't the best reason to differentiate between Silva and Kuroda. Like you, I'd for sure like to get Kuroda (for the right price). But I'd be content with us having Silva for four years as well. He doesn't have a history of severe injuries, he's a proven commodity, and in all likelihood, we will have to deal with some injuries/underperforming pitchers in the next couple of years, so the depth he'd provide will be valuable.
Good defense would be the key
by Sisquatch Kids on Dec 6, 2007 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
Jose Castillo
Meh
by Scott McKinney on Dec 6, 2007 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
If I remember correctly
by MileHighKCfan on Dec 6, 2007 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
Will Smith even make the team?
Seriously, there are only 4 bench players, assuming KC goes with the norm of 12 pitchers.
One spot to the backup catcher, one spot to the 4th OF (Gathright), one spot to German.
That leaves one spot left; presumably KC is still going to pick up an additional OF/DH/1B, right?
Just don't see where Smith fits in.
by loyal2s dad on Dec 6, 2007 11:28 AM EST reply actions
I was thinking 11 pitchers
by Scott McKinney on Dec 6, 2007 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
Has to be a trade
25-man roster, as it stands now
1B Gload
2B Grudz
3B Gordon
SS Pena
LF Guillen
CF DeJesus
RF Teahen
C Buck
DH Butler
Shealy
Phillips or Tupman
German
Gathright
Smith
SP Meche
SP Bannister
SP Greinke
SP Hochevar
SP Buckner
Soria
Yabuta
Nunez
Gobble
Peralta
Bale
by Scott McKinney on Dec 6, 2007 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
Is Davies out of options?
Davies does indeed have an option left
by Scott McKinney on Dec 6, 2007 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
Well
by BlueEyesAustin on Dec 6, 2007 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
Hochevar/Buckner/Nunez
by Scott McKinney on Dec 6, 2007 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
Actually,
by loyal2s dad on Dec 6, 2007 5:30 PM EST up reply actions
What happens to Lubanski?
Doesn't this mean he is ours until he becomes a XXX year minor league FA?
In other words, how many more seasons do we have before he could declare himself a minor league FA?
While I don't really want to disagree with the scouts, who say he may not have what it takes, I certainly think, given his age and his history of slowly adapting to the competition at each level, the Royals should not abandon all hope on this guy yet.
Let's see if given a full season in AAA, can he improve, like he has done at every level so far...
by loyal2s dad on Dec 6, 2007 11:33 AM EST reply actions
Lubanski
by MileHighKCfan on Dec 6, 2007 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
I believe
Rolen ever played with a pellet gun?
not that TLR is the easiest guy to like either
by FireBell on Dec 6, 2007 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
Are you saying
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Mu6TVmYnSG0
pretty sure GMDM is an attention hound
by FireBell on Dec 6, 2007 12:05 PM EST reply actions
Thank god he's pursuing those guys
by Scott McKinney on Dec 6, 2007 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
is anyone else disapointed?
more signings
I want more... they don't have to be royals-related either
Agree
by MileHighKCfan on Dec 6, 2007 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think we're done yet
by Scott McKinney on Dec 6, 2007 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
On ESPN
Ron Mahay
Here's hopin he chooses New York.
haha
by MileHighKCfan on Dec 6, 2007 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
If we sign Mahay
by Scott McKinney on Dec 6, 2007 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
Good point
by MileHighKCfan on Dec 6, 2007 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
Colby Lewis
He'll need to
by David Howards Legacy on Dec 6, 2007 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
Latest Rumors
The Padres are nearing a deal with Milton Bradley. Apparently he lost 15 pounds so far to reduce his injury risk. You go Milton!
Austin Kearns available?
See his stats here
He only made 3.5 mil last year... might be a good option for LF, or CF if we traded DDJ.
by RoyalsFanInMarinerTown on Dec 6, 2007 1:04 PM EST reply actions
And he's excellent defensively
Well...
by RoyalsFanInMarinerTown on Dec 6, 2007 1:18 PM EST up reply actions
TPJ isn't the end!
by David Howards Legacy on Dec 6, 2007 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
Responding
How good is he? You guys like him or not? Is he a Gobble type guy, or more of a inning/2 inning guy?
by I need more Esteban on Dec 6, 2007 1:25 PM EST reply actions
Semi-LOOGY
He'd be a nice pick up as long as the contract isn't for too many years.
by Scott McKinney on Dec 6, 2007 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
dont really see the point
throw 10 against the wall and see what sticks
Generic?
by Scott McKinney on Dec 6, 2007 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
Rotoworld's take on Ray Liotta
Liotta was a top prospect in the White Sox system two years ago, but he was a bust in 2006 and he missed 2007 following shoulder surgery. For such a minimal investment, the Royals were smart to take a look at him.
Word on the street
JoPo blogs about Guillen
http://www.joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/
These, to me, have always been the most depressing days to be a Royals fan. It's those days when some other team (always some other team) makes a huge deal, a big signing, a franchise-changing moment. I think the biggest reason I liked the Gil Meche signing last year is that, for a few moments anyway, people were TALKING ABOUT THE ROYALS. Yes, they were saying that the Royals were dumb and irresponsible, but the Royals existed for at least a little while.
I'm saying that every so often the reality of this whole thing just slaps you right in the face. The Royals had to borrow, steal, beg, plead and overspend to get a middle-aged corner outfielder with moderate power and a reputation. Jose Guillen could not even get into the Boston Red Sox lineup. He's the Royals big signing this offseason.
Meanwhile, the division-rival Tigers trade Andrew Miller (who the Royals should have taken in the 2006 draft), Cameron Maybin (who looks like he will be a stud, unlike Royals high school outfielder first-round pick Chris Lubanski) and some other lesser prospects for a 24-year-old hitter whose OPS+ the last three years was 151, 159 and 150, and a soon-to-be 26-year-old lefty starter who has thrown 200 innings each of the last three years, almost won a Cy Young, and has 68 career victories.
Seriously, what chance do the Royals even have?
guillen is better than he is given credit for ther
but the thing is, we'll take the reasonable production after what we've seen
sure, but that's bad policy
Brown was so bad that we spent a franchise record per year amount on a guy whose OPS may not break .800.
These sort of moves are the type one makes when they're in a complete state of panic, except there's no reason not to be calm at this time of year.
Basically, the trend appears to be "Player X is so bad that I'll take an upgrade no matter what I have to do to get it. I don't care what the cost may be."
Reports on Andruw Jones
Snicker
I wonder if the Royals leaked the information.
by BlueEyesAustin on Dec 6, 2007 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
Adding Silva
Meche #2
Bannister #2/3
Greinke #2/3
Buckner #4/5
Hochevar/Nunez/De La Rosa #5
If you put Silva into that rotation, you replace a guy who is the quality of a #5 starter with a guy who is a solid #3
Meche #2
Bannister #2/3
Greinke #2/3
Silva #3
Buckner/Hochevar/Nunez/De La Rosa #4/5
That is a much better rotation. So you've got a much better 1-4 and the young guys can compete for one spot in the rotation. If the winner of that derby doesn't ends up not being able to handle it, then plug in another one.
Looks like Fukudome is getting expensive
According to Tom Krasovic of the San Diego Union-Tribune, it "sounds like the Cubs might go as high as $12-15MM per year" for outfielder Kosuke Fukudome. He adds that Fukudome would have to be willing to take less money to play on the West Coast if he is to become a Padre. Many players have before, so don't go buying those Fukudome Cubs jerseys just yet.
Hard to say if the Royals are even still in this one. I can't see the Royals going 3/45 for him.
Looks like Kuroda is getting expensive
Was this....
by MileHighKCfan on Dec 6, 2007 5:03 PM EST up reply actions
Two different posts
by Scott McKinney on Dec 6, 2007 5:32 PM EST up reply actions
Damn Japanese players
by MileHighKCfan on Dec 6, 2007 5:40 PM EST up reply actions
More K's and U's than we're used to
by Scott McKinney on Dec 6, 2007 5:48 PM EST up reply actions
Confirmed via MLB press release
Marbotty
Push
by MileHighKCfan on Dec 6, 2007 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
It is a push
Yes a push
So I think this sig would be more appropriate: NYRoyal was right (at least about one thing).
;)
by Scott McKinney on Dec 7, 2007 9:35 AM EST up reply actions
you definitely get props for
I really thought somebody would take him. Glad to see I was wrong.
Unfortunately
by Scott McKinney on Dec 7, 2007 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
Ponder this
by loyal2s dad on Dec 6, 2007 5:47 PM EST reply actions
Good point...and
by Scott McKinney on Dec 6, 2007 5:51 PM EST up reply actions
What about Neal Musser?
A couple things
- Mahay is much better than Musser
- Platoon splits are very real. There are many good LH hitters in the AL Central. It certainly helps to have pitchers who pitch particularly well against lefties. Having multiple good LHP in the bullpen is even more important when you have no lefties in the rotation.
by Scott McKinney on Dec 6, 2007 6:03 PM EST up reply actions
Just noticed another FA option
by RoyalsFanInMarinerTown on Dec 6, 2007 10:52 PM EST reply actions
I like Phelps
Milton Bradley to sign with Padres
I really wanted the Royals to make a push for him, for essentially the same contract Guillen got. Even if you're not a Bradley fan, you have to admit this is a huge bargain in this market.
A part-time bargain
I like Bradley's talent a lot, but he just can't stay healthy. That decreases his value greatly.
by Scott McKinney on Dec 7, 2007 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
outfield
http://mlbfleecefactor.com/2007/12/07/a-royal-flush-of-outfielders/
good story...
by grudz69 on Dec 7, 2007 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
Rowand/Fukudome
My question on Brown
Has This Guy
"At the very least, Gathright will provide good defense and speed on the basebaths."
Defense? Hardly. Speed? Yes, but aimless, car jumping straight line speed. He doesn't steal bases well, and he's not a great base runner. He might be a good BASE jumper; I don't know.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BASE_jumping














