Winter Meetings Day 4/ Rule 5 Draft Open Thread

by royalsreview on Dec 6, 2007 1:54 AM EST in News Comment 123 comments

According to reports Andruw Jones has signed with the Dodgers, bringing the Official Gold Club Andruw Jones Royals Watch ™ to a close. Maybe it was his own desire to do so, but it amazes me that Jones only got a two year deal, when lesser players at the same position have received much more security. With Jones apparently signed, it appears possibilities regarding the final day of the Winter Meetings have now withered down to seeing if anything happens with Bedard and Haren, and every team wondering if their guy will produce one of those out-of-the-blue signings. All in all, we've only had one exciting day out of three so far, and while the Rule 5/Rule V Draft will produce its share of buzz, I've always found the prospect game to be only a placeholder of sorts. Then again, we've got our own bit of Lubanski drama to track I suppose, and the whole occasion will be a nice excuse to remember Dayton's pickup of Soria, still the man's best move to date. Nevertheless, this year, the Royals might not even participate.

• Rob Neyer's handy transactions guide is a nice place to start on the rules of the Rule 5 Draft. I've also always enjoyed Neyer's crusade against the use of roman numerals here, "First off, note that it's not the "Rule V Draft," but the Rule 5 draft. It's called the Rule 5 draft because the section of the Official Rules that covers the draft just happens to be Rule 5 in the book.

• The Royals aren't concerned about Guillen's past, so don't even bring it up, ok!?!

• With the Royals hanging around the Kuroda and Fukudome chases, our Eppenweb suggests Hillman is a reason why.

• The Mets have entered the Santana fray.

• Rosenthal beats the drum for Santana-to-Seattle.

• Scott Rolen wants out in St. Louis, Tony La Russa says, essentially, "go to hell". Not to go all Scoop Jackson on you, but Rolen should be thankful he's a good ole boy from the midwest: he's hurt all the time, hates his manager, and is trying to force a trade. Yet, I've not seen too many "injury-prone malcontent" stories.

• Don't sleep on Cleveland just yet either, they might be out of the Bay talks with the Pirates, but I doubt they'll stand still.

• Christina Kahrl is chatting today at BP.

You know the drill friends. When you read, hear, smell a rumor or a deal, post it here in the hope of eliciting instant feedback from your peers...

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That sucks about Jones

I guess he wanted to play in the NL. Weak, dude. Oh well. That Fukudome cat will probably be cheaper anyway. Is there any possibility whatsoever that we could sign Kuroda and Fukudome. They could play the Vapors epic tune "Turning Japanese" at the K every night as far as I'm concerned.

by royaldaddy on Dec 6, 2007 2:00 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

that would be so hideously crass

but i can see it

by royalsreview on Dec 6, 2007 2:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

least we forget...

The Dodgers are paying him quite a bit of money...including a 12m signing bonus.

"UPDATE, 12-6-07 at 1:14am: The salary structure to Jones' deal is interesting: $9MM in '08, $15MM in '09, and a $12MM signing bonus. That setup could make Jones much more tradeable if the need arises."

So essentially 21 million bucks this year.

I wanted him too, but that's an awful lot of money.

by doublestix on Dec 6, 2007 2:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Heh,

I find it a little hard to be upset about Jones going elsewhere. He's the kind of risk that I'm very wishy-washy on wanting the Royals to take.

"True friends stab you in the front."-Oscar Wilde.

by NHZ on Dec 6, 2007 2:25 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

really?

We just signed a guy that had a sub .700 OPS season in the last three years. Jones also had a low OPS this last year, but at least it was preceded by two .900+ seasons, not two seasons barely surpassing .800. (I realize this may not be a fair comparison to make -- I don't really know where you stand on the Guillen signing.)

That aside, considering the relative disinterest by the majority of the MLB, this looks to me like the Vlad Guerrero signing all over again.

Remember how few teams were willing to roll the dice due to Vlad's back issues, and then he came back and had as good a year as ever? I think we'll see the same thing out of Jones.

I'm actually quite despondent over this signing. Especially when the Dodgers are paying less for his services than we are for Guillen's.

Granted, it's for one fewer year. But Andruw and Boras were actually looking for more years on the offer. So maybe we would have signed him to a 3 yr/50 million contract? Or 4/65? Perhaps.

I'm really hoping the desire to play for an NL excuse was the reason he signed elsewhere, even though I don't quite understand why, as a centerfielder, Jones really would have a preference one way or the other. Otherwise, it appears to be a lack of willingness on the part of Moore to really pursue the guy.

by marbotty on Dec 6, 2007 5:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

I would have much rather taken a chance with Jones, and I would have had no problem giving him extra years. In fact, this is a case where I probably would have seen it as "locking him up" for extra years, rather than "having to go" extra years. Maybe I am just overvaluing him though, since no executives in baseball seem to agree with me.

by Moose Tacos on Dec 6, 2007 7:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Eh?

Guillen OPS+

2003 142
2004 121
2005 116
2006 75 (TJ Surgery at ASB)
2007 116

As far as Jones goes, I suspect it was either two years or 4/5...that was he taps FA quickly.

by BlueEyesAustin on Dec 6, 2007 9:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You can tear down my argument, and you

probably have more of a leg to stand on than me, but because my thinking is kind of circular in that:

I don't think any GMs were willing to look at Jones and say "lock him up long term" because of his most recent season. This does NOT mean their right, but that seems to be the prevailing wisdom.
IF Jones just had an off-year, and we can expect him to bounce back reasonably well, then giving him a two year deal is not the best way of going about things, but again, I don't think anyone was looking at giving him a 3 or 4 (with anywhere near enough money)or he would've signed it.
IF the Royals were only going to get him for two years--and again, I'm speculating a bit that that was the going contract for him--then is it worth it at all to pay him the 15-20 mil a season? Remember, to win the division in 2009 the Royals have to pick up 20-25 games in the standings. "How much do you value Jones?" is part of the question, but also it's "how quickly can the Royals make up ground?" because if he's only going to be there for two years and force the Royals to give up a draft pick, he's basically a "win in 2009" acquisition.

Anyway, that's my thinking. I'll have my thoughts on the Guillen signing this weekend.

"True friends stab you in the front."-Oscar Wilde.

by NHZ on Dec 6, 2007 9:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I apologize if that came across as argumentative

I was just surprised by your conclusion. I agree with the majority of what you write, so this was a bit of a curiosity.

by marbotty on Dec 7, 2007 3:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

No no

I didn't take any offense at all. I just wanted to state my somewhat odd reasoning and the fact that I know it's odd reasoning. :)

"True friends stab you in the front."-Oscar Wilde.

by NHZ on Dec 7, 2007 8:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd take Jones over Guillen

I'm a little pestered Moore went fast and hard after Guillen with no competition, paying him $12M annually. We may have been able to pull that down to $9-10M, and then sign Jones to a 3/$52MM deal or whatever.

We still need more offense. It's time to seal the deal with Fukudome. If not, we'll probably have to package DeJesus with a pitcher for another offensive bat.

Aaaannd we really need another starting pitcher as well.

Every small-market team should take the Rule V endeavor - it's a risk worth taking. I'll be disappointed if we simply throw our hands in the air and give up.

Lubanski? Hughes? Plummer? Will any of these men be taken? I'll guess 2 will be taken. Let's keep Smith happy (eye-roll).

Either way....regarding roster improvement....

We're not done, folks!

Play MLB Managers Survivor at Royals Nation! http://royalsnation.proboards62.com/

by Royals Nation on Dec 6, 2007 3:02 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Royals taking a catcher?

Baseball America reported this morning that the Royals are rumored to be targetting Lou Santagelo in the Rule V draft.

Santangelo's a 22 year old catching prospect in the Houston organization who showed considerable pop in A and A+ (15+ homeruns annually) before stumbling in 2007.

Wondering why he only played in 58 games in 2007?

He tested positive for performance enhancing drugs! And now you know the rest of the story.

Cube is here: http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/S/Lou-Santangelo.shtml

by marbotty on Dec 6, 2007 7:42 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

wow

Guy doesn't make a lot of contact, does he?

Worth pointing out that his seasonal age is actually 25.

My guess is that Tupman would be better in 2008, but Santangelo will be better in the long run ... but still not very good.

by Moose Tacos on Dec 6, 2007 7:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

his contact/power ratio is very Rob Deerish

by marbotty on Dec 6, 2007 8:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

from the same article

For those of you who, like me, were a bit distressed to see Lubanksi left unprotected, take heart. Baseball America has reported that Lubanski was only one of seven former 2003 first round draft picks to be left off his team's 40 man roster. Article here: http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/?p=680

For comparison's sake, here they are:

Eric Duncan, 22, 1B, NYY
Career Line: .250/.338/.428 (OPS: .766)
2007: .241/.323/.389 (.712) AAA Scranton

Summary: Despite great start to career in rookie ball, never lived up to the hype. Fortunately, he won't have to relocate for his future job at Dunder-Mifflin.

Kyle Sleeth, 25, P, Det
Career Line: 6.32 ERA, 1.61 WHIP, 6.59 K9
2007: 10.66 ERA, 2.61 WHIP, 4.26 K9 AA Erie

Summary: Former #3 in the draft a colossal failure. Actually walked 2 more batters per nine than he struck out in 2007.

Ryan Harvey, 22, OF, ChiC
Career Line: .252/.298/.456 (.754)
2007: .246/.269/.446 (.715) A+ Dayton

Summary: Never made it above A ball, but also never provided any reason to promote him.

Matt Moses, 22, OF, Min
Career Line: .257/.312/.391 (.703)
2007: .224/.244/.305 (.549) AAA Rochester

Summary: He stinks.

Jeff Allison, 23, P, Fla
Career Line: Powdery, white, and from Colombia
2007: Did not play

Summary: On account of his substance abuse problems, he keeps being described as the Josh Hamilton of this year's draft, which may be a stretch. He's got considerable talent, but he's a big mystery, having only pitched 2 seasons in the minors, the last being 2 years ago. Probably will get drafted by somebody.

Chris Lubanski, 22, OF, KC
Career Line: .284/.350/.471 (.821)
2007: .295/.361/.490 AA, .208/.273/.363 AAA

Summary: The Big Lubanski appears to be head and shoulders over the rest of his fellow 2003 draftees at this point, but his 50 game stint in Omaha a good indicator he may not be ready for the show. Sometimes you eat the b'ar, sometimes the b'ar eats you.

by marbotty on Dec 6, 2007 8:15 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Is that some kind of Eastern thing?

I know schadenfreude isn't.

Hey, good news, only a couple more hours until other people start posting again.

by Moose Tacos on Dec 6, 2007 8:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Great wrap up

Lubanski seems like the jewel of the 2003 has beens.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 6, 2007 9:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

worst draft ever

Hillman, you're on notice.

by FireBell on Dec 6, 2007 12:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Jones may have preferred a 2 or 5 year deal

Clearly Jones wanted a long-term deal. It was clear that he wasn't going to get 5 years from anyone. I hadn't heard about any 4 year offers. So then he was left 1, 2 or 3 years (actually, I hadn't heard about any 3 year offers either). Going with a 2-year contract means he still gets a good chunk of guaranteed money and he gets to go back on the market again for a long-term deal when he is still in his peak-plateau years (32). So, he gets $36M, the chance to re-prove himself and then go back on the market for the 4-5 year deal he wanted this year.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 6, 2007 9:28 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

That's what I posted above. I don't think an extra year would have made a difference.

by BlueEyesAustin on Dec 6, 2007 9:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

NYRoyal wins

Royals don't lose Lubanski. Royals don't draft anyone, don't lose anyone in the Rule 5.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 6, 2007 10:24 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Complete Rule 5 Draft

Round One
Rays take RHP Tim Lahey from Minnesota
Pirates take RHP Evan Meek from Tampa Bay
Orioles take RHP Randor Bierd from Detroit
Giants take RHP Jose Capellan from Colorado
Marlins take RHP Carlos Guevara from Cincinnati
Reds take RHP Sergio Valenzuela from Atlanta
Nats take 1B Matt Whitney from Cleveland
Astros take LHP Wes Wright from LA Dodgers
A's take RHP Fernando Hernandez from White Sox (I thought he was the best player available)
Cardinals take OF Brian Barton from Cleveland
Blue Jays take RHP Randy Wells from Chi. Cubs
Mariners take RHP R.A. Dickey from Minnesota
Mets take RHP Steve Register from Colorado
Padres take RHP Mike Gardner from NY Yankees
Phillies take LHP Travis Blackley from Giants

Round Two
Nats take OF Garrett Guzman from Minnesota
Padres take 2B Callix Crabbe (cool name!) from Milwaukee
Phillies take LHP Lincoln Holdkom from Boston

Round Three
No selections.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 6, 2007 10:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Not a great Rule 5 class

I'm still somewhat surprised that Lubanski wasn't taken, but what do I know.

Ironically I went to school with Tim Lahey, the first pick in the Rule 5 draft. I didn't even know he was in the minors, much less as a pitcher. He was a power hitting catcher in college.

"I'm tired of all these stupid a$$ questions every day. Why the f**k would I hit Brett for Miller?" The rest is history.

by DC Royal on Dec 6, 2007 10:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Royals take

LHP Ray Liotta from the White Sox in the minor league portion.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 6, 2007 10:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Not much talent, but he's very gritty

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 6, 2007 10:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Dayton 1, fan bloggers 0

We get to keep Lubanski and Hughes and Jason Smith.

Guess he knew other GM's minds better than we did.

Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!

by cmkeller on Dec 6, 2007 10:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It's time for mea culpas

Turns out his "obviously stupid moves" in not protecting Lubanski and Hughes weren't so stupid after all.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 6, 2007 11:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I disagree

It was still a stupid risk. I can go walk in the middle of oncoming traffic. If I don't die, it doesn't mean it was because there was no risk and I was smart. It means I was lucky.

Jason Friggin Smith.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 6, 2007 11:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I disagree

I don't think it was much of a risk to begin with. Look at his stats, scouting reports, skill set. I don't think there was ever much of a chance that he'd be drafted. Turns out Moore was right. Little chance that he'd be taken and little chance that he'll help the Royals in 2008. How is that a big risk. As much as I detest Smith, he's likely to be more helpful to the KC Royals in 2008 than Lubanski. And the miniscule chance that Lubanski will become a decent major leaguer doesn't amount to much "risk" in not protecting him.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 6, 2007 11:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

2008

I agree it would have been tough for a team to keep Lubanski on their 25-man all year.

However, I think it's a bit unfair to call Lubanski's chances at becoming a decent major leaguer "minuscule." The guy is 22 years old and seems to be progressing fairly consistently.

by Moose Tacos on Dec 6, 2007 11:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Lubanski

It's not just me saying he has a small chance of becoming anything more than a 4th OFer; it's the scouts. There used to be disagreement among scouts as to Lubanski's ceiling. From what I've read, they don't disagree anymore. Maybe a good 4th OFer.

He has been progressing fairly consistently until he fell on his face in AAA. Hopefully he'll figure out how to be a good AAA player in 2008. I don't think there is much rason to have optimism about Lubanski.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 6, 2007 11:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Lubanski is ours

yea!

Hillman, you're on notice.

by FireBell on Dec 6, 2007 12:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I guess

we have different definitions of "decent" and "minuscule"

by Moose Tacos on Dec 6, 2007 12:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Carlos Silva coming to KC?

Carlso Silva to KC?

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 6, 2007 10:24 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I Like it...I Don't Like it

Like:
Good K to W ratio
Very low W/9 ratio
Solid innings eater

Dislike:
38 HR given up in 2006 over 180 innings!
Gives up quite a few hits

I wonder if his low walk rate is related to the fact that he gives up hits rather than walks when he's in a hitter's count. Looking at his splits that seems to be the case. He throws strikes when he's down in the count, resulting in more hits and less walks.

I'd rather be watching baseball.

by Sisquatch Kids on Dec 6, 2007 10:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He manages to succeed

2006 was a bad year, but 2004, 2005 and 2007 were all good years (all above average ERA's). He manages to have good ERA pretty much consistently, even though he doesn't get the big K's. He relies on defense. The Royals have good defense.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 6, 2007 10:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Marlins took

Guevara, the pitcher from Cincy in the Rule 5. Rays took a Twins pitcher, Tim Lahey, and are trading him to the Cubs. Reds took two pitchers. All I've seen so far.

by CentralChamps2009 on Dec 6, 2007 10:37 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I promise I was writing this

Before I saw Retro's incredibly detailed list, so please don't add to my shame. Thank you.

by CentralChamps2009 on Dec 6, 2007 10:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Royals interested in LaTroy Hawkins?

Royals interested in Hawkins

The Royals are one of at least three teams showing heightened interest in reliever LaTroy Hawkins, who went 2-5 with a 3.42 ERA last season in 62 games for the Rockies.

The Rangers and Rockies are also pursuing Hawkins, a 13-year veteran who pitched previously for the Twins, Cubs, Giants and Orioles before signing as a free agent last December with the Rockies.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 6, 2007 10:39 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Silva = average AL #3 starter

That's what he's been with the Twins. I think he'd continue to look good with a good defense behind him and moving to a park which is no more helpful to hitters than the Metrodome was.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 6, 2007 10:44 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I agree

And #3 starters are well worth $8-10 million a year on this market.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 6, 2007 10:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think they are worth more than that

...in this market. Look at guys like Lilly and Marquis last year. This year you have to expect the price to go up.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 6, 2007 11:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

No Silva, please

I agree that he's probably a #3 starter, but we already have Meche, Greinke, and Bannister. If there's not a #1/2 starter to jump in and pour tons of cash into, I don't see the point in spending that money on someone with ABSOLUTELY NO UPSIDE. I'd be fine with Kuroda because there is the possibility of something better than projected, but Carlos Silva will be exactly what he always has been...unless he flops/gets hurt. I'd rather go with what we've got or work on trades than spend for somebody like Silva.

by BrRoyal on Dec 6, 2007 3:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

#1/#2 starting pitchers

They will be available in next year's FA class. And the ones that are under 36 will go for very long-term deals (5+ years) for $15-20M per year. And if "upside" means potential to improve over the course of the contract, none of those guys will have it. FA's almost never do because once they are eligible for free agency, they have already hit their peak.

Right now we've got very uncertain rookies for the 4th and 5th spots in the rotation. I wouldn't mind a good, solid, dependable #3-quality starter to pitch in one of those spots.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 6, 2007 3:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

True, but

I don't look for upside in a #1/#2. They're already there. There was upside in Meche, though, so the signing seems really good right now. I don't think anyone believes Silva will ever be more than he is right now, and I'd rather pursue Kuroda, who may be better than projected, or some other pick up, rather than committing 4 years to Silva, when we'll probably want to dump him in a year and a half (assuming our young guys look ready by then and our current core of Meche, Greinke, and Banny are still performing well).

My suggestion: Go after one of the reclamation projects for a 1 or 2 year deal with incentives and an option for another year if he's actually decent. That saves us from committing long-term when there's better out there next year.

by BrRoyal on Dec 6, 2007 5:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Kuroda will be 33 by opening day...

How exactly does a 33-year-old have "upside?" His skills will likely have already started declining before he plays an inning of MLB ball.

That doesn't mean I think the Royals are wrong in pursuing him (he is still probably one of the best FA SP's on the market). I just think that isn't the best reason to differentiate between Silva and Kuroda. Like you, I'd for sure like to get Kuroda (for the right price). But I'd be content with us having Silva for four years as well. He doesn't have a history of severe injuries, he's a proven commodity, and in all likelihood, we will have to deal with some injuries/underperforming pitchers in the next couple of years, so the depth he'd provide will be valuable.

by DarthYoshi on Dec 6, 2007 8:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Good defense would be the key

He likes to throw strikes and pitches to contact.

I'd rather be watching baseball.

by Sisquatch Kids on Dec 6, 2007 10:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Jose Castillo

just released by the Pirates. Can he play SS? He might not be a bad choice to replace Jason Smith. Would anyone really be a bad choice to replace Smith? He definitely has a little pop in his bat that wouldn't be bad to have off the bench.

by lordbyronk on Dec 6, 2007 11:02 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Meh

Probably a little better hitter than Smith and probably worse than Smith in the field. He really can't play SS.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 6, 2007 11:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If I remember correctly

He is more of a corner IFer.

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 6, 2007 11:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Will Smith even make the team?

Seriously, there are only 4 bench players, assuming KC goes with the norm of 12 pitchers.

One spot to the backup catcher, one spot to the 4th OF (Gathright), one spot to German.

That leaves one spot left; presumably KC is still going to pick up an additional OF/DH/1B, right?

Just don't see where Smith fits in.

by loyal2s dad on Dec 6, 2007 11:28 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I was thinking 11 pitchers

Aren't 11-man pitching staffs still more common than 12-man? And didn't the Royals go with 11 pitchers most of the 2007 season?

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 6, 2007 11:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Has to be a trade

Either Teahen or DJ I would think will be moved this sometime this winter.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 6, 2007 11:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

25-man roster, as it stands now

I think it would be:

1B Gload
2B Grudz
3B Gordon
SS Pena
LF Guillen
CF DeJesus
RF Teahen
C Buck
DH Butler

Shealy
Phillips or Tupman
German
Gathright
Smith

SP Meche
SP Bannister
SP Greinke
SP Hochevar
SP Buckner

Soria
Yabuta
Nunez
Gobble
Peralta
Bale

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 6, 2007 11:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Is Davies out of options?

I would guess he gets a rotation spot. I think Hooch starts in Omaha. But that looks about right for now. I'll be surprised if it looks like that on Opening Day though. Dayton has some moves to make.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 6, 2007 11:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Davies

I think he has one left.

by BlueEyesAustin on Dec 6, 2007 11:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Davies does indeed have an option left

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 6, 2007 12:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Well

I really don't see us breaking camp with Hoch, if only to keep his service time next year below 1.0 years.

by BlueEyesAustin on Dec 6, 2007 11:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Hochevar/Buckner/Nunez

Where they play is up in the air. Maybe rotation, maybe bullpen, maybe Omaha. And that goes for any/all of them. I actually think Moore will bring in some FA starting pitcher. I think that would put Hochevar in Omaha at least to start the season. Braun or Musser could be in the bullpen with Nunez or Buckner back in Omaha.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 6, 2007 12:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Actually,

they went with a 12 man staff for nearly all of the year.

by loyal2s dad on Dec 6, 2007 5:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

What happens to Lubanski?

I assume this means KC gets to keep him, right?

Doesn't this mean he is ours until he becomes a XXX year minor league FA?

In other words, how many more seasons do we have before he could declare himself a minor league FA?

While I don't really want to disagree with the scouts, who say he may not have what it takes, I certainly think, given his age and his history of slowly adapting to the competition at each level, the Royals should not abandon all hope on this guy yet.

Let's see if given a full season in AAA, can he improve, like he has done at every level so far...

by loyal2s dad on Dec 6, 2007 11:33 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Lubanski

I know that you become a minor league FA after three years if you are on the 40-man roster. Not sure what may be different when you are not on the 40-man.

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 6, 2007 11:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I believe

After six full seasons in the minors you can become a FA

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 6, 2007 11:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Rolen ever played with a pellet gun?

I've got to believe having Rolen on your team openly in defiance of your manager is worse than a guy who wants to play and has a pellet gun in the locker room. Or maybe the talent differential allows for the difference in media perception? Or maybe it's something else? Hmmmm...

by Big Guy on Dec 6, 2007 11:43 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

not that TLR is the easiest guy to like either

Hillman, you're on notice.

by FireBell on Dec 6, 2007 12:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Are you saying

TLR is uncooperative?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Mu6TVmYnSG0

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 6, 2007 12:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

pretty sure GMDM is an attention hound

have you read about a single guy other than Arod and Santana the royals weren't allegedly pursuing?

Hillman, you're on notice.

by FireBell on Dec 6, 2007 12:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Thank god he's pursuing those guys

I don't know if you're joking, but it isn't about him being an attention hog. It is about him pursuing multiple options, which is exactly what he should be doing. There is no reason for him to not be pursuing (in some manner) Fukudome, Kuroda, Silva, Lieber, Clement and others.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 6, 2007 12:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

is anyone else disapointed?

more trades
more signings

I want more... they don't have to be royals-related either

by royalsreview on Dec 6, 2007 12:16 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Agree

But I didn't really expect a whole lot to get done. The Cabrera/Willis deal was bigger than anything I thought I would see.

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 6, 2007 12:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think we're done yet

I would have liked to see more action for the Royals at the winter meetings, but it's not like everything happens in these 4 days. It's still the first week in December. Lots of time, lots of possibilities, lots of FA's still on the market.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 6, 2007 12:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

On ESPN

They were saying expect a lot of deals to get done between now and Christmas.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 6, 2007 12:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ron Mahay

Supposedly down to deciding between the Royals and Yankees.

Here's hopin he chooses New York.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 6, 2007 12:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

haha

When was the last time somebody was choosing between the Royals and the Yankees?

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 6, 2007 12:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If we sign Mahay

Then I think there is a good chance that Gobble gets packaged with someone (like DeJesus or Teahen) for something significant (perhaps a SP).

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 6, 2007 12:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Good point

I would not necessarily be opposed to that depending on what the return might be. I like Gobble mainly because he is a Royal, but I don't think he would be hard to replace in the slightest.

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 6, 2007 12:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

late 70s

by LeoBloom on Dec 6, 2007 2:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Colby Lewis

Kinda ironic, we sign Yabuta from Japan and drop Colby Lewis to make room and now Lewis is going to go play in Japan.

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 6, 2007 12:28 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

He'll need to

pitch around Brazell, who is also playing in Japan.

by David Howards Legacy on Dec 6, 2007 1:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Latest Rumors

The Marlins are considering Wes Helms and Jorge Cantu to fill their 3B vacancy.

The Padres are nearing a deal with Milton Bradley. Apparently he lost 15 pounds so far to reduce his injury risk. You go Milton!

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 6, 2007 12:43 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Austin Kearns available?

See this article

See his stats here
He only made 3.5 mil last year... might be a good option for LF, or CF if we traded DDJ.

David Howard was just the beginning. Hopefully TPJ is the end.

by RoyalsFanInMarinerTown on Dec 6, 2007 1:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

And he's excellent defensively

Only problem is you have to give up talent. Washington wants pitching. We really can't afford to give up good pitching.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 6, 2007 1:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Well...

There is that annoying fact that you have to give something back.

David Howard was just the beginning. Hopefully TPJ is the end.

by RoyalsFanInMarinerTown on Dec 6, 2007 1:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

TPJ isn't the end!

I fully expect DeJesus/Gaithright to be traded at some point. OF upgrade would be the easiest.

by David Howards Legacy on Dec 6, 2007 1:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Responding

to the rumor that Ron Mahay is choosing between Royals and Yankees.

How good is he? You guys like him or not? Is he a Gobble type guy, or more of a inning/2 inning guy?

by I need more Esteban on Dec 6, 2007 1:25 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Semi-LOOGY

Mostly he's a standard lefty reliever who you want to face lefties and not too many righties. He hasn't been used as a strict LOOGY in recent years, but he's also not likely to go more than 1.1 innings. Righties hit him better than lefties but the difference usually isn't huge (as it would be with a pure LOOGY). For his career, righties have hit .251 against him; lefties have hit .227.

He'd be a nice pick up as long as the contract isn't for too many years.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 6, 2007 1:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

dont really see the point

but he's a generic reliever... could work out, could suck

throw 10 against the wall and see what sticks

by LeoBloom on Dec 6, 2007 2:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Generic?

Much better than average. He's a good reliever. If Moore wants to trade Gobble, then Mahay is a good replacement.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 6, 2007 2:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Rotoworld's take on Ray Liotta

Royals selected LHP Ray Liotta from the White Sox in the Triple-A phase of the Rule 5 draft.

Liotta was a top prospect in the White Sox system two years ago, but he was a bust in 2006 and he missed 2007 following shoulder surgery. For such a minimal investment, the Royals were smart to take a look at him.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 6, 2007 1:49 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

That pickup

has GMDM written all over it.

by Bornin85 on Dec 6, 2007 2:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Word on the street

Miggy Tejada to Houston for a bunch of crap

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 6, 2007 1:55 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

JoPo blogs about Guillen

Not a fan.

http://www.joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/

These, to me, have always been the most depressing days to be a Royals fan. It's those days when some other team (always some other team) makes a huge deal, a big signing, a franchise-changing moment. I think the biggest reason I liked the Gil Meche signing last year is that, for a few moments anyway, people were TALKING ABOUT THE ROYALS. Yes, they were saying that the Royals were dumb and irresponsible, but the Royals existed for at least a little while.

I'm saying that every so often the reality of this whole thing just slaps you right in the face. The Royals had to borrow, steal, beg, plead and overspend to get a middle-aged corner outfielder with moderate power and a reputation. Jose Guillen could not even get into the Boston Red Sox lineup. He's the Royals big signing this offseason.

Meanwhile, the division-rival Tigers trade Andrew Miller (who the Royals should have taken in the 2006 draft), Cameron Maybin (who looks like he will be a stud, unlike Royals high school outfielder first-round pick Chris Lubanski) and some other lesser prospects for a 24-year-old hitter whose OPS+ the last three years was 151, 159 and 150, and a soon-to-be 26-year-old lefty starter who has thrown 200 innings each of the last three years, almost won a Cy Young, and has 68 career victories.

Seriously, what chance do the Royals even have?

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 6, 2007 2:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

guillen is better than he is given credit for ther

but yea... pretty blah

but the thing is, we'll take the reasonable production after what we've seen

by LeoBloom on Dec 6, 2007 2:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

sure, but that's bad policy

Berroa was so bad that we traded a top 10 prospect to get someone marginally better, who was likely going to be available on waivers.

Brown was so bad that we spent a franchise record per year amount on a guy whose OPS may not break .800.

These sort of moves are the type one makes when they're in a complete state of panic, except there's no reason not to be calm at this time of year.

Basically, the trend appears to be "Player X is so bad that I'll take an upgrade no matter what I have to do to get it. I don't care what the cost may be."

by marbotty on Dec 6, 2007 5:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Reports on Andruw Jones

Are that the Royals offered 2 years $22 million.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 6, 2007 3:37 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Snicker

As I said on the Corner, that sums up what DM thinks of Jones, I suspect.

I wonder if the Royals leaked the information.

by BlueEyesAustin on Dec 6, 2007 3:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Adding Silva

I don't want to do a whole diary on this, but I think people are underestimating the effect Silva would have on our rotation. This is how I view the current rotation:

Meche #2
Bannister #2/3
Greinke #2/3
Buckner #4/5
Hochevar/Nunez/De La Rosa #5

If you put Silva into that rotation, you replace a guy who is the quality of a #5 starter with a guy who is a solid #3

Meche #2
Bannister #2/3
Greinke #2/3
Silva #3
Buckner/Hochevar/Nunez/De La Rosa #4/5

That is a much better rotation. So you've got a much better 1-4 and the young guys can compete for one spot in the rotation. If the winner of that derby doesn't ends up not being able to handle it, then plug in another one.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 6, 2007 4:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Looks like Fukudome is getting expensive

From MLBTR:

According to Tom Krasovic of the San Diego Union-Tribune, it "sounds like the Cubs might go as high as $12-15MM per year" for outfielder Kosuke Fukudome. He adds that Fukudome would have to be willing to take less money to play on the West Coast if he is to become a Padre. Many players have before, so don't go buying those Fukudome Cubs jerseys just yet.

Hard to say if the Royals are even still in this one. I can't see the Royals going 3/45 for him.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 6, 2007 4:16 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Looks like Kuroda is getting expensive

According to SI's Jon Heyman, for Hiroki Kuroda are expected to approach $15MM per year. I can't see the Royals going 3/45 for him.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 6, 2007 4:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Was this....

a continuation of your previous post or is there new info in this one that I'm missing?

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 6, 2007 5:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Two different posts

One on Fukudome, one on Kuroda. Both with similar information.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 6, 2007 5:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Damn Japanese players

Why do all of their names look the same even when they aren't even close? I don't understand this, maybe I've been reading the internet way too much this week. I need a break.

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 6, 2007 5:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

More K's and U's than we're used to

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 6, 2007 5:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Guilllen suspension 15 games

Yahoo says so anyways.

by royaldaddy on Dec 6, 2007 5:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Confirmed via MLB press release

We'll have to wait 15 games to see Jose. Jay Gibbons is suspended for 15 games as well. Troy Glaus, Rick Ankiel, Gary Matthews, Jr. and Scott Schoenweis do not receive suspensions due to "insufficient evidence of a violation of the Joint Drug Prevention and Treatment Program in effect at the time of the conduct in question."

"I'm tired of all these stupid a$$ questions every day. Why the f**k would I hit Brett for Miller?" The rest is history.

by DC Royal on Dec 6, 2007 5:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Marbotty

Did I win our bet or is it a push since neither the Pirates or Marlins took him?

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 6, 2007 5:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Push

I'll leave it to Marbotty and you but I think I remember it being a push if he didn't go to the Marlins or Pirates. I was following this one very intently for some reason.

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 6, 2007 5:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It is a push

But in honor of your bold prediction that he wouldn't be taken, I will be sporting a new signature for the next couple days.

NYRoyal was more correct than I might have been!

by marbotty on Dec 7, 2007 3:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes a push

But you've got to give me a little more credit than that. My underlying premise was that it wasn't very risky to leave Lubanski unprotected because 1) he probably wouldn't be drafted, and 2) if drafted he wouldn't be kept for a full season.

So I think this sig would be more appropriate: NYRoyal was right (at least about one thing).

;)

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 7, 2007 9:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

you definitely get props for

pegging down his value.

I really thought somebody would take him. Glad to see I was wrong.

NYRoyal potentially was possibly maybe more correct than I might or might not have been!

by marbotty on Dec 7, 2007 10:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Unfortunately

...it appears that no team likes him any more than the Royals do. Hopefully everyone is wrong about him.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 7, 2007 10:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ponder this

Regarding Mahay, perhaps the Royals are pursuing in him just in case Bale or JDLR wins the 5th starter role. That would make some sense, as we would still want a minimum of two lefty relievers among Gobble/Mahay/JDLR/Bale, with perhaps one of these guys ultimately cut or not making the team.

by loyal2s dad on Dec 6, 2007 5:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Good point...and

Also, if we don't end up with a SP upgrade, it would help to upgrade the bullpen. And adding Mahay to the bullpen would be an upgrade to the bullpen overall.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 6, 2007 5:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

What about Neal Musser?

And how many lefties do you really need? Frankly, I find the whole role of LOOGY to be completely overrated.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 6, 2007 6:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

A couple things

Mahay is much better than Musser
Platoon splits are very real. There are many good LH hitters in the AL Central. It certainly helps to have pitchers who pitch particularly well against lefties. Having multiple good LHP in the bullpen is even more important when you have no lefties in the rotation.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 6, 2007 6:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Just noticed another FA option

Does anyone have background on Josh Phelps? Why are we not pursuing him at 1B?

David Howard was just the beginning. Hopefully TPJ is the end.

by RoyalsFanInMarinerTown on Dec 6, 2007 10:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I like Phelps

And I think he can hit. I just think we have a logjam of flawed 1B already, and he just adds to that logjam. I'd rather see what a platoon of Shealy/Gload can do.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 7, 2007 10:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Milton Bradley to sign with Padres

1 year/$4 million

I really wanted the Royals to make a push for him, for essentially the same contract Guillen got. Even if you're not a Bradley fan, you have to admit this is a huge bargain in this market.

NYRoyal potentially was possibly maybe more correct than I might or might not have been!

by marbotty on Dec 7, 2007 10:40 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

A part-time bargain

He's going to miss the first 1/4 to 1/3 of the 2008 season with his current injury. And then I can't say the odds are very high that he'll play the remainder of the season injury free.

I like Bradley's talent a lot, but he just can't stay healthy. That decreases his value greatly.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 7, 2007 10:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

outfield

Good writeup on the KC outfield below. The royals should wait until teams are desperate and try and get something good for gathright or brown.

http://mlbfleecefactor.com/2007/12/07/a-royal-flush-of-outfielders/

by em3 on Dec 7, 2007 10:58 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

good story...

I agree DeJ. is the most likely to go.

by grudz69 on Dec 7, 2007 11:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Rowand/Fukudome

unless we were to land one of these guys I don't see moving Teahen to 1st or trading DDJ. The more FA's that sign elsewhere the more I'm against a DDJ trade. Gathright won't net the same return but someone in need would take him. Brown would get moved before anyone else I would think.

Sign Alex Gordon to a life time contract!!!

by eboston on Dec 7, 2007 11:41 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

My question on Brown

I've seen some speculation that Brown could be traded. The problem I have with that is that we would have to offer him arbitration to keep him. He would likely end up getting about $4.5M. Is anyone going to trade us anything for the privilege of paying Emil Brown $4.5M in 2008? If we offer him arbitration, there is a huge risk that we couldn't move him at all and then we'd be stuck with him. Considering how little we would likely get in return for him in trade, I don't think he's worth the risk.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 7, 2007 11:57 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Has This Guy

Ever watched Gator in the field?
"At the very least, Gathright will provide good defense and speed on the basebaths."

Defense? Hardly. Speed? Yes, but aimless, car jumping straight line speed. He doesn't steal bases well, and he's not a great base runner. He might be a good BASE jumper; I don't know.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BASE_jumping

Being a fan is irrational, but what is the alternative?

by philofthenorth on Dec 7, 2007 7:58 PM EST reply actions 0 recs