Envisioning the Future-Lineup Thoughts

by wildthang on Jun 8, 2007 4:55 AM EDT Comment 22 comments

Well, after an anxious few months leading into the draft, and speculation having us take guys from Porcello(who I like much less knowing its pronounced Por-Chello), Weiters, Vitters, among many others, but now we finally have our guy in Mike Moustakas.

Did I think we would draft him last week? Hell no.

Did I know who he was last month? Hell no.

Am I happy with who we got? Hell yea.

Our first pick, out of Chatsworth HS, (known as the Chancellors, http://www.chatsworthhs.org), Michael Moustakas, appears to be a very astute selection, and becomes 100x more wise if he can actually play a big league SS. At 6'0" 200, hes a big kid, but I still think he can play the SS relatively well. I'm just gonna glance at some weight/height listings and list them, obviously ignoring differences in ability, body type, quickness etc.

Stephen Drew 6'1 185
Miguel Tejada 5'9 213
Bobby Crosby 6'3 217
Yunieski Betancourt 5'10 190
Orlando Cabrera 5'9 185
Brendan Harris 6'1 200
Rafael Furcal 5'8 196
Derek Jeter 6'3 195
TPJ 6'2 180
Michael Young 6'1 200
Carlos Guillen 6'1 213

Point being, just by looking at this list we can see his size and weight don't really look out of place. I do think he could still fill out though which could be a problem, but for purposes of this we'll ignore that.

So here we are, looking at a potential lineup in the 2009-2010 seasons based on development ascent to the bigs. Lets take a look at the lineup we could possibly field, and contrary to how BB assembles his lineup we will do it permutatively(making up words, always a good sign, I just mean in a specific order) and hopefully it could be a lineup we could lean on for years to come.

CF David Dejesus- Good leadoff hitter, good centerfielder, his latest slump is pissing me off though, possible trade bait to places like Atlanta or Florida, where he could be extremely valuable to both. FLA overvalues pitching and would try and screw us. Wondering if Gathright is for real he would be a dominating leadoff guy.
LF Chris Lubanski- One of my personal favorites. Very hard worker.I don't see why he cant be a solid two hole hitter that puts up a ton of XBH. If he does what hes doing right now in Omaha at .280/.350/.480 he would be an awesome asset.
3B Mark Teahen- Ideal three hole hitter, good power, good eye, I think he could go .290/.380/.480 at least with a good lineup around him as he progresses, or a slightly less powerful JD Drew.
Alex Gordon- I really don't care about getting a L/R/L/R split in the lineup, but Gordon will be our best all around hitter and all we do now is wait.
1B/DH Billy Butler- Supposed to be the best hitter, and batting fifth should give him a ton of chances to get runners in. I imagine he will split time between first and DH while he is young with a guy like Gload, or even Huber,and maybe DH on daygame after a nighter.
SS Mike Moustakas-The hardest to project, but this is a dream lineup, so I'm putting him 6th at short. Really have no clue as to what he could do, but a 30 HR guy at short sounds like a perennial MVP candidate. If he can be a good OBP guy, also might consider the two spot.
C John Buck- Offensive breakout this year, and just by watching his approach you get the feeling he is for real. Don't see too much flailing and outside pitches, he has been able to get his pitch and hit it hard even with TPJ, well usually just TPJ batting behind him. 20+ HR power is exciting.
DH Justin Huber- I don't see Shealy being a long term option, (funny what 6 months time does), which may actually actually put the ostracized Mr. Huber back into contention for a semi prominent spot on this team. He was basically terrible for the first 6 weeks, but has been destroying the ball lately, and hopefully can earn his way into the future picture. This could also possibly be a FA that may split time at 1B or could be a rotating thing with Mitch Maier in the mix.
2B Esteban German- This is really a tough choice because its so hard to project. I think its 50/50 that German will be around in two or three years. He will be 31 in 2009, and I think his value would be maximized through a trade. Given that, I still have to go with him basically because I have no clue what guys like Maddox or Bianchi might wind up doing. Both of them could be options here, or hell, even Tony Pena possibly, but someone will have to step up to win the 2B job if German goes.

Condensed version:
Dave Dejesus
Chris Lubanski
Mark Teahen
Al Gordon
Bill Butler
Mike Moustakas
John Buck
Justin Huber
Esty

So yeah, someday this offense could be really good. Just throw a pitching staff around it and you have a really good team. It will make George Brett proud. I can't wait!

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I

Don't like the L/R/L thing either, but I also don't think you can have 4 lefties in a row

CF Gathright
2B German/Maddox/Bianchi
3B Gordon
DH Butler
RF Teahen
1B Shealy/Huber
SS Moustakas
C Buck
LF Lubanski

BTW, this is absolutely no knock on Luby that I got him 9th. I love him as a prospect.

by doublestix on Jun 8, 2007 5:23 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

oh yea

i forgot to look up lubanskis handedness.

by wildthang on Jun 8, 2007 6:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well

Instead of offering my own ideas, I'll just nitpick y'alls:

A lineup projection that has no FA consideration? As bad as we've been this year, I just cannot imagine that there will not be at least one impact signing for the lineup in the next two years. First base makes the most sense, as I just don't believe Shealy or Huber are going to be here, and I don't think Butler's gonna stick--the man was built to DH
I know our guys think Moustakas will make it at short, and I know I'd love for it to happen, but, in light of everyone not associated with the Royals being more accurate about how this team would do this year, I've come to believe that "everybody else" knows a little something, and if everyone else thinks he's not gonna be a shortstop, I think realistically we have to consider that to be true until proven otherwise. I'd anticipate an outfield switch if his power develops as it should, or (fingers crossed it doesn't happen) 3B opens up when Gordon switches to 1B.

by CentralChamps2009 on Jun 8, 2007 8:51 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

here is my dream lineup

same plaers (relatively) but a little different order. also, this is JUST what we have in our system right now, we will obviously bring in some hitters through trade and free agency over time but im not counting those.

CF DeJesus
2B German
3B Gordon
1B Butler
RF Teahen
C Buck
SS Moustakas
DH Huber
LF Lubanski

i wanted to put gathright in ddj's place but right now (and likely in 2.5 years) ddj is the better hitter. i think he might be traded some time soon if gathright proves he is for real (im talking at least 2 months of similar production). i like seperating R's and L's in the batting lineup to some extent, it doesn't necessarily have to be strict. here would be our bench (5 players) with the above lineup:

C - Tupman
UTIL - TPJ
OF - Maier
OF - Gathright
another infielder, maybe maddox or bianchi...

by rockchalk on Jun 8, 2007 9:43 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Realistically speaking

CF-Dejesus
RF-Teahen-assume German is long gone/not productive anymore, Teahen's got speed with adequate to good power, is preferably a #3 hitter, but we don't have anybody better to put here and I don't want a .300OBP black hole here. Think 20/20
3B-Gordon-speed/power combo, hopefully he can hit .280-.300. Think lesser version of Carlos Beltran.
DH-Butler-best bat in the lineup at that time I'm assuming. Perhaps a top 10 bat in the league. Think lesser version of Travis Hafner.
1B-Moustakas-hopefully he'll have realized his potential by then. I have serious doubt about him sticking in SS since I've read report that he's stocky and doesn't have range. I can't see him hitting .270 even, but I'll take a .260(or worse) hitter with power at #5
C-Buck-catchers breaks down. And I'm not counting on a .900 OPS from Buck in 2010. Still might be an above average offensive catcher in the Jason Varitek mold. But that's a 6 hitter at best.
Free Agent/Trade LF-I don't know who, but Lubanski it ain't. Looking for a decent average here with some pop. Emil Brown type. Hopefully with better defense.
SS-Jeff Bianchi-plays a decent SS, bat not developing as hoped this year. I still have faith in him, SS is a demanding position that takes away attention to develop offense. If he can even hit decent and play above average SS, I'm happy.
2B-Veteran Gritty 2B in the Grudzielanek mold or some flashy new toy in the closet guy from the 2008-2009 draft.

Let's go Royals! And Let's go Timmeh!

by playingwithfire on Jun 8, 2007 10:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Wow

Agree with all this. Go ahead and plug Maddox in at 2B since we're speculating and it's done. Key is that LF FA slot. If Moust turns out to be a legit power guy at 1B, and Bianchi hits, we could possibly go lighter hitter like Lubes there.

I'm still concerned about how we're going to score enough runs next season to not be an embarassment again. Just plugging Butler and Lubes in isn't enough IMO. I don't want to wait until 2009 to start winning games.

by chukar on Jun 8, 2007 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I still hate the Moose pick

and he may not be fully ready by 2010 too. And I think Shealy would be long done by 2010(he will have a couple more good years, he'll turn around). Don't know who to put there if Moose isn't ready. I think we ruined Huber.

Let's go Royals! And Let's go Timmeh!

by playingwithfire on Jun 8, 2007 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

who was your pick?

by chukar on Jun 8, 2007 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

my pick was

Wieters, if we can't sign him then I'm fine with Vitters...if we want somebody closer to the majors. I'm also completely fine with Beau Mills...

Let's go Royals! And Let's go Timmeh!

by playingwithfire on Jun 8, 2007 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yea, I wanted weiters as well, but he's going to

be a tough sign apparently.

Seems like vitters and moust were a tossup hitting projection-wise on most assessments, and maybe came down to some intangibles for DM, plus being a lefty and perhaps better athleticism defensively.

by chukar on Jun 8, 2007 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Decision

DM doesn't make the decisions on draft picks. He sets out what type of player he is looking for and then Deric Ladnier handles scouting and picking. DM didn't know who was going to be picked until right before the pick.

by TXroyal on Jun 9, 2007 3:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

My lineup is different

I think Moosey can stick it out at short. He'll be our Cal Ripken. So, after Dejesus is traded we will have:

FA/Gathright, LF
Maddox/Bianchi, 2B
Gordon, 3B
Butler, 1B
Teahen, CF
Mustakas, SS
Buck, C
FA, DH
Lubanski, RF

That's my ideal lineup. Notice, there's no Dejesus or Huber. Those trades could alter this lineup. We may get a decent hitter and pitcher for DDJ. Depending on the free agents we pick up, this could be an awesome lineup. I'm excited for the 2010 Royals.

by royaldaddy on Jun 8, 2007 11:12 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I think this is more realistic than the others

posted. DDJ is usually either underrated (when he's slumping) or overrated (when he's going well). Not to beat it into the ground, but, despite the excitement since his call-up, I don't see Gathright ever hitting well enough to play a corner.

This assumes Teahen can actually play center full-time. Once again, I think Teahen will be a good outfielder for the Royals for a long-time. However, despite some impressive throws, T's reads in right haven't been all that great. That's easier to overlook than errors at, say, 3B, since the balls just drop in. Not saying he can't grow into it, just that it's a bit of a stretch to assume he can play CF when's he's still a work in progress in right. I think he'll be fine there, thoug.

At best, Gathright might hit well enough to play center, although his defense there is suspect as well. I see some other acquisition being the long-term solution in LF/CF, in general. Heck, the apparently ageless Matt Stairs might be available at that point. He's like the homeless man's Barry Bonds!

It's too bad that both German and DeJesus will probably be gone by the time this lineup is ready to contend. I like both of those guys.

by devil_fingers on Jun 8, 2007 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

the other acquisition

How 'bout the poor man's Elijah Dukes...

...that's right, let's open the Lastings Milledge can of worms again.

by devil_fingers on Jun 8, 2007 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lubes-Teahen-Gatt

might have worked in the 80's. Definitely have to plug in a LF with better bat, and we'll see how the epic Gatt-DDJ battle plays out for CF. Until this year appeared Maier could roughly provide similar production, and maybe he will yet.

Also, I know SBs aren't considered valuable at most times during the game, but when your CF/leadoff has only attempted 1 steal (and got caught) by June that's a problem IMO. I still don't get how he can be so incapable in that area.

by chukar on Jun 8, 2007 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Battle and SBs

First, I hope that people know that my Gathright-doubts are out of good-wishes for the Royals. Like I said, I hope he works out, and that the improvement is real. I just have my doubts. He's never hit well enough before this year in AAA that his speed could overcome his other offensive problems. I'm still not sure he does.

Yeah, you'd like to have speed, but beggars can't be choosers. DDH plays good, smart defensive, and hits well enough for SB. He's probably not as fast as everyone thought -- his play in the OF seems to have been much less the product of great speed than of smart reads and positioning. Hey, that's a good thing. But that means he wasn't as fast as we thought. But at least the Royals or, more likely, DDJ himself are smart enough to realize that he sucks at stealing bases. As far as I know, a CS is much more damaging than a sucessful SB.

But right now, based on all the data we have, the only area in which Gathright beats DDJ is base stealing. DDJ is a better defender. He hits for better average. He's more patient. He has more power. Gathright is a bit younger, but not that much younger. He might be breaking out this year, but he's never had a long-term stretch at the plate that rivals DDJ's average MLB season. That's all I'm saying.

Yes, it would be nice to have late-game speed. But, and I'm sure I'm not breaking any new ground here, that doesn't really account for all the at-bats before that. It's more making a case for a pinch-runner than a better starting option in CF. DDJ is a limited player. But there are between 117-789 moves the Royals need to make before worrying about a Gathright/DDJ competition.

by devil_fingers on Jun 8, 2007 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I just wanted to make clear

that I was calling for a Dejesus trade before the season started. It has nothing to do with the "slump" that he's in right now. I know that sometimes fans get down on a guy when he struggles, but the time to deal him would've been April when he was hot. He's a very hyped player that could even be called overrated. Those are the guys that you can use to rob a stupid GM (Jim Bowden, Bill Bavasi). We could probably pull off a decent pitcher and good position player for him. It's not that I don't like DDJ, but he would have more value to us through trade IMO. I don't think Gathright is a starter at the MLB level either honestly. But, I think he would be an awesome 4th outfielder. Plus, with my lineup you'll need some veteran leadership. So, the free agents at LF and DH would be very important.

by royaldaddy on Jun 8, 2007 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

OK...

I guess I think that's obvious for any player: any time you can screw another team in a trade, you do it. Maybe it's more likely to happen to Dejesus than other players. But, sure, if the Royals could get Erwin Santana, Howie Kendrick and Brandon Wood for any one player, even Gordon or Butler, I'd think they'd have to do that. So, yeah, if you can screw Bowden or Krivsky for DDJ, go for it. If you can get Hughes and Cano for Butler, do that. I guess I agree with you there.

by devil_fingers on Jun 8, 2007 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agree its not a comp at this point

I was just going with RD's trade DDJ for equal value theory, and if Gatt has figured out how to get on base that becomes a more viable, but still debatable, option. Mainly expressing my frustration with how a guy who appears to have at least average speed and can play CF has the base stealing success of a Sweeney. And you have to admit, Gatt can at least add some excitement to what is now an incredibly dull offensive attack.

by chukar on Jun 8, 2007 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"hits well enough for..."

a CF. Nice job making sense on my part.

by devil_fingers on Jun 8, 2007 11:45 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Gaithright And Pena

Make a good fourth outfielder and utility player combo. I'm speaking from a deep well of ignorance, but DeJesus, Teahen and Buck seem to be good long term investments (3-5 years). Gordon and Butler deserve every chance to make themselves the same. Every other position player slot is open to FA/farm competition for a solution.

Being a fan is irrational, but what is the alternative?

by philofthenorth on Jun 8, 2007 4:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Are we talking 2008 or some other cosmic year?

If we are talking some other cosmic year then maybe you should add in some other FA's. Yes, we are poor but I expect GMDM to make one or two big (Meche) signings each year.

by grudz69 on Jun 8, 2007 8:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs