More Dotel News

by adschofield on Jul 23, 2007 3:25 AM EDT Comment 43 comments

I found this very interesting:

The Royals want a righthanded-hitting center fielder in return for Octavio Dotel. Now that's a tall order. Sherman names Lastings Milledge and Carlos Gomez as two who fit the bill, but such a trade would require young talent like Zack Greinke coming back to the Mets. Just speculating, but Melky Cabrera and Reggie Willits also fit the Royals' need.

Another entry on mlbtraderumors.com: The Dodgers have jumped to the forefront on Octavio Dotel, with Takashi Saito ailing. According to Rosenthal, the Royals aren't demanding the very specific bounty Joel Sherman claimed. Instead, they just want a near MLB-ready player. Rosenthal says Tony Abreu is out of reach but Chin-Lung Hu might not be. He suggests moving Hu to second base to accomodate Tony Pena Jr., which should probably be reversed. It appears the Indians wouldn't surrender Franklin Gutierrez or Ben Francisco for Dotel. I'd give one up, personally.

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Dotel trades

I would be perfectly happy with either Abreu or Hu. I think they should replace Pena at SS and Pena becomes our middle infield reserve. It's just a quiet trade market right now. I don't know what we need in a centerfielder anyway. We have DDJ, Gator with Maier on the way that part doesn't make sense. A Power bat (LF or 1B, whichever Butler doesn't play), middle infield depth, starting pitching that's the wish list as I see it. I just want to see a trade go down, so we can stop talking hypothetically and talk about who we have for next year.

by lordbyronk on Jul 23, 2007 7:15 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

That's good news

Just shows you how thin the market for pitching is right now with all the injuries. To think that we could get one the names being thrown around for Dotel, an average to slightly above average closer, is unbelievable to me.

We'll wait and see who we get, but somewhat over-paying for Dotel last offseason could turn out to be an absolutely brilliant signing by Dayton.

by powderblue on Jul 23, 2007 10:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Now is the time to deal Greinke

His value with never be higher. He could wig out and never be heard from again after this season. There are many teams interested and we need a power bat. Let's move Zack while we can. Anyway, I'd take Hu for Dotel. That would be a good deal for us.

by royaldaddy on Jul 23, 2007 11:39 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Is Hu that good.

I heard he is good defensively but his batting could go either way. I just checked his stats and he is having a good year this year but is way better then last year. I think it would be worth the risk if he or Pena could play second. It would a good dp tandem.

by TXroyal on Jul 23, 2007 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hu

should at least hit for decent average, defensively I don't think he's any better than Pena.

Let's go Royals! And Let's go Timmeh!

by playingwithfire on Jul 23, 2007 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You don't think Greinke will develop?

I think Greinke has a bright future. He has tremendous stuff and control and could easily be a good future starter or closer. Of course, potential isn't always realized. In fact, it often isn't. But I don't think the Royals should deal him. It would be one thing if we were getting offered top, major league ready prospects. But we're not. Everything I've read says that we're being offered B prospects who are 1-2 years from being major league ready. None of those deals would be good for the Royals.

Greinke's value is not extremely high right now because 1) his crack up last season, and 2) his poor performance as a starter earlier this season. Right now, he's mostly potential. When guys are just potential, with some negatives on their record, they are not at peak value. That's not the right time to trade a player.

by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2007 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

indeed

You don't trade away potential aces, particularly in a market where you have to spend $55 million for a guy with a career 4.50 ERA.

by marbotty on Jul 23, 2007 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed.

Way too early to give up on Greinke. Out of our pitching prospects, he's still younger than Hochevar and Buckner, etc. Way too soon to write him off particularly since he could have value as an elite closer or starter. Not unless the trade is out of this world good (Loney and Kemp) (Pie, Murton, and Prior). Otherwise, absolutely not.

by lordbyronk on Jul 23, 2007 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Greinke could also flip out

and buy his lawnmowers in the offseason and never be heard from again. I'm not saying the kid isn't talented, he's just not stable and you don't really know if he'll ever be anything but a middle reliever. Of course, if the market isn't good for him, keep him. But, if we can get some good value for him, I'd like to deal him.

by royaldaddy on Jul 23, 2007 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Downside vs. Upside

Yes, there is downside potential. He could flip out. He could fail to develop or even regress. But, I think there is a hell of a lot more upside potential. He has so much talent, and we've seen a lot of good results (although admittedly mixed results).

So, with that upside potential, and a market where you are only going to get B prospects in return for him, I don't think it makes any sense to trade him at this time.

by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2007 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Until One Of Us Gets

A working crystal ball, every move is a calculated risk. I don't think trading Greinke just to trade Greinke is justifiable, but Moore would have to consider a deal that makes the team better. That, too, is a subjective measure, but that's what GMDM gets paid to do. Trade him or keep him, we won't know for 5 years what the right move was.

Being a fan is irrational, but what is the alternative?

by philofthenorth on Jul 23, 2007 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hu

has always been good defensively, but he really seems to have turned a corner offensively this year. 2006 minor league stats .254/.326/.334. 2007 stats .349/.395/.542 between AA and AAA. He's young so improvement is possible at his age. I'd say he's worth the risk.

by lordbyronk on Jul 23, 2007 12:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

i was about to trash him

But I had neglected to look at his numbers this year.

I'd still be very wary about this trade. Both his OBP and SLG are very average-intensive, meaning that if his average were to plummet, you'd see huge drops in his OPS that you wouldn't see from a guy with more power. But, at least he has a bit more extra base hits this year.

Still, I'd rather Moore hold out for someone else. It's not like we wouldn't be getting a compensation pick from him if we hold on to him until the end of the year and he doesn't opt to continue to play in KC.

by marbotty on Jul 23, 2007 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hu might be the best we can get

Dotel is a rental, he's a good closer but not a great one, and he's a risk to go down with an injury during the stretch run. We're not going to get an A prospect for him. If we could get an A- or B+ prospect, we should take it.

I'd hold out a while longer, and I'm sure Moore will. But if it gets to a few days before the deadline and that's the best offered we've received, jump on it.

by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2007 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

that's depressing

Considering how many teams there are rumored to be after Dotel, it seems like we could get something better.

It also doesn't seem to make sense to me to trade for a guy that's essentially a TPJ clone. If we're going to field both of them at the same time, we'd better hope we sign a big bat in the offseason.

I'm optimistic we'll be competitive in 2008, so if the worst thing that happens is that Dotel will remain on the team next year, I would not be upset.

by marbotty on Jul 23, 2007 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dotel won't be on the team next year

Whether we trade him or not, he's gone. He has a mutual option for next season which means either the Royals or Dotel could opt out of it. Considering Dotel wants big money as an elite closer, I'm pretty sure he'll opt out and test the free agent market.

by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2007 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Also

not to burst your bubble, but I don't believe we would get a compensation pick for Dotel since he's been hurt 2 out of the last 3 year. His sell by date is definitely July 31.

by lordbyronk on Jul 23, 2007 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i think you're right, on second thought

by marbotty on Jul 23, 2007 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Abreu

I would rather have Abreu over Hu. The Dodgers are just waiting for Abreu to take over for Kent at 2B next year. He has much more offensive upside than Hu

by Killer G's on Jul 23, 2007 12:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I would rather have Hu

Hu seams to have the more potential with the bat. I don't know anything over than what is on their stats at mlb.com but Hu has more HR, doubles hte last two yrs. Also Abrue had more errors then Hu.

by TXroyal on Jul 23, 2007 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Abreu is slightly better with the bat

Hu is basically a guy that won't embarrass himself too much with the batting average(.280ish) and has a half decent OBP with no power potential. Think em...David Eckstein with better OBP. Abreu has better tools and could turn out to be better, both are close to each other.

Let's go Royals! And Let's go Timmeh!

by playingwithfire on Jul 24, 2007 2:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dotel for Matt Murton

I have heard whispers of Dotel for Matt Murton. I think that would be a great trade for us. He has proved that he can play in the bigs, and has some power potential. What do you all think of that trade?

by KCBOYATHEART on Jul 23, 2007 1:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I like Murton too.

Murton is in Iowa now and a straight up trade would be a loser for the Royals. If the Cubs threw in one of their young pitchers then maybe it would work.

I would take Reggie Willets for Dotel straight up. Before he slammed into the wall he was on fire. He would be a great lead off man and would put DeJ in LF.

by grudz69 on Jul 23, 2007 1:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

If I was GM, here's my pitch

to the Cubs: Greinke, Dotel, and Shane Costa/Mitch Maier for Sean Marshall, Eric Patterson/Ryan Theriot, and Murton. If the Cubs are as crazy for Greinke as I've read that they are, they just may pull the trigger on this deal. And just when you think they won't do it, think of this. They want to win this year. They can get hot as we've all seen, but their bullpen sucks something awful. They're out of a closer with Dempster hurt and the fanbase is nuts for Greinke.

by royaldaddy on Jul 23, 2007 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

From what I've read...

...some teams are really interested in Greinke because they think the Royals have given up on Greinke as a starter because he's been moved to middle relief. They thinking is that if the Royals have marginalized his role, then the team must not be too high on him. That is why they are getting lowball offers for him.

by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2007 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

News flash...

according to mlb.com, The Mets have been scouting Grudz.... maybe another veteran departs at 2B?

-- Royals Delegate to the land of the Salmon and Moose (Seattle)

by RoyalsFanInMarinerTown on Jul 23, 2007 3:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

that'd be sweet

Wonder if they'd throw Gotay in with a trade?

by marbotty on Jul 23, 2007 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Red Sox

Someone on ESPN News just said that the Red Sox are now the front runner for Dotel. He mentioned that Boston has the starting pitching that the Royals are looking for. Obviously it won't be Lester or Buchholz. Baseball America has their player with the biggest leap forward as Jed Lowrie. He is a switch hitting shortstop/second baseman at AA. He is hitting 295 with more walks than strikeouts in 258PA. Any other ideas?

by gordonrules on Jul 23, 2007 4:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Lowrie looks pretty good

Was that your suggestion or was it on ESPN News?

by marbotty on Jul 23, 2007 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lowrie

That part was my suggestion just based on looking at stats and Baseball America. Seems like he would be avaliable as they have Lugo for the next 3 years at SS and Pedroia at second for what one would imagine would be a long time.

by gordonrules on Jul 23, 2007 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think that's correct...

Lowrie's stats... http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Jed%20Lowrie&pos=SS&sid=milb&t =p_pbp&pid=476704

by RTC Fan on Jul 23, 2007 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oops, sorry...

Try this.

by RTC Fan on Jul 23, 2007 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Third

time is a charm, Link to stats.

by RTC Fan on Jul 23, 2007 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think...

It will come down to the Red Sox or the Dodgers

by adschofield on Jul 23, 2007 4:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

dotel is gone after this year

and if we dont trade him, there will be zero compensation for him.

he should and will be gone by july 31st, with tony abreu #1 on my realistic wishlist. i just get a better feeling about him compared to hu, although lowrie would be fine as well.

i like the cubs idea royaldaddy, but i doubt they would go for it. every report ive read says that they were simply trying to buy low, and wont overpay for him which is what we want.

a grienke-to-the-cubs trade isnt going to happen...

by rockchalk on Jul 23, 2007 7:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Greinke and Dotel

I've been thinking about this... I've concluded that there are only two reasons you would consider trading Greinke at this point in time:

The Royals organization has decided that, for whatever reason(s), on-field or off, he will NOT end up being an above-average starter or closer in the next several years.
Another organization offers the Royals a consensus top-shelf prospect (any position) who is near the majors or already has some limited big league experience (Dodger players like Kemp, for example). In other words, someone just like or preferable to Greinke. Young, very talented, and major-league ready.

An important factor here is that Greinke's value lies not just in his live arm and potential, but in the fact that he can be controlled contractually for the next, what, 3-4 years? For Kansas City (or for that matter, ANY team), a young, talented, controllable arm is priceless when it comes to payroll considerations. Teams no longer roll the dice and trade guys like this...or at the very least, it's becoming extremely rare. Pitching is just two costly these days (see Meche, Gil) to give up on a talented young arm unless reason 1 or 2 comes into play.

So I say the Royals will end up keeping Greinke, for better or worse. Let's hope it has a happy ending.

By the way, re. trading Dotel, KC simply HAS to trade him for the best offer they can get by the deadline, and they will. There is absolutely no reason not to. I would think they could get a player in return who could be a major league regular at some point (not a star, but a useful future major leaguer). I agree, he will not be back next year (why would they want to give a guy like him a multi-year, pricey contract, anyway?). I would argue that they signed him primarily with the idea of using him as a chip in this very scenario...and now is the time to cash it in.

by cookierojas73 on Jul 23, 2007 7:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Dotel

let's curb the enthusiasm a little okay? Dotel is a half decent Closer at best right now. He's not a star and he's only a 2 month rental. To think that getting Murton for him isn't enough is ridiculous.

Prospect wise I want those guys from teams interested in Dotel, all straight up deals.

Dodgers
Chin-Lung Hu
Jonathan Meloan

Indians
Edward Mujica
Max Ramirez
Asdrubal Cabrera-might be a reach here, Indians won't give up that much

Red Sox
Justin Masterson
Lars Anderson-reach, probably too much for Dotel
Jed Lowrie

Mets
Deolis Guerra
Kevin Mulvey

Let's go Royals! And Let's go Timmeh!

by playingwithfire on Jul 24, 2007 2:11 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Asdrubal

Ten points to whoever identifies the origin of this name.

by Moose Tacos on Jul 24, 2007 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hannibal's brother

Died in battle with the consul Nero

by kjfinkes on Jul 24, 2007 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would have said that is was a term

describing Buddo's managerial style.

by grudz69 on Jul 24, 2007 1:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Trajan Langdon

Was named for Emperor Trajan; his father is a Histery prof at UAA. I remember the local announcers pronouncing it "Tra-han" when he was in HS, assuming it was Spanish.

Being a fan is irrational, but what is the alternative?

by philofthenorth on Jul 24, 2007 2:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The Alaskan Assassin

Haven't heard a nice Trajan Langdon name drop in a few years, thanks Phil!

by wheezie on Jul 24, 2007 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Because Of Trajan

I follow Euroleague Basketball. He almost shot his team to a comeback win in the final again this year; they won last year. He plays for Moscow with the Greek point guard who made the U.S. squad look so bad last year.

Being a fan is irrational, but what is the alternative?

by philofthenorth on Jul 24, 2007 2:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs