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Spreadsheet Baseball: LaRue's Average is Going Down, and Other Scary Stories

I was an awesome singles hitter in little league, as practically everyone was. You see, back then all you had to do to get a hit on the score was hit the ball not directly at a fielder and you had about a ninety percent chance of it getting through or beating the lollipop throw. Some kids have already learned how to drive the ball a bit in little league, but barely anyone knows how to field. There was about one pitcher in our league out of six that we faced that could get through a game without walking more than he struck out. It was definitely a hitter's league, and my last year on the little league field I hit .536. I couldn't tell you what my OBP was, but just to brag I'm going to write that it had to be at least .650. Slugging average? Not so much, but I was good.

A funny thing happens to you, though, when your average gets above .500. I realized, twelve years old at the time, that I could go 2-for-4 and my average would go down. 2-for-4 is a pretty gosh darn good day's work, but it was actually below average for me on the season (and god knows how many other players). It struck me as an odd pecularity at the time and, obviously, the memory has stuck with me. For those interested, my Indians defeated the White Sox for the championship that year, sweeping a best two-of-three series from those baseball villains that included my neighbor down the street who had sold out after coming up in the minors with me.

In the majors, you don't have many people hitting .500 these days, so 2-for-4's no longer a good example. You do, however, have players every year who hit .380 for the first month and then see their average decline even when they get a hit in every three at-bats. It's an unwinnable game that way, in that you'll come back to earth even if you hit reasonably well. The flip side of this is the player who starts out his season badly, to the point where a 1-for-4 night raises his pathetic batting average. If we're talking about a player who's sub-.200, one measly bingle in five at-bats can cause a rise.

Then, there's Jason LaRue. Jason could go 1-for-6 in the next game he plays, and his batting average would go up. That's how bad he's been at the plate this season. I know I've brought this up before, but he's managed to hurt the team well above and beyond the impact you can expect from a back-up catcher. LaRue has been--I love typing this--0-for-August. He's 0-for-19 since the month started. At least he avoided not getting on base all month, as he managed a walk against the White Sox on the 22nd. Yippee. Saying "at least he had a walk this month" is like saying "at least that ant is still alive" after an unfortunate insect has been torn in half by a particularly sadistic eight-year-old. It's not much consolation to the ant. Or the Royals.

For those wondering where all of this is going (other than to crow about my little league abilities) NYRoyal's diary below prompted me too examine just how badly of the Royals are compared to the theoretical "league average hitter" team. As all of you know, widely-felt preseason expectation were that this team was going to be pretty good offensively and bad at pitching. That hasn't even come close to being true, as heroes like Gil Meche, Joakim Soria, and Brian Bannister have saved the pitching staff from nigh-certain embarrassment. Meanwhile, the Royals--LaRue being the most extreme example--have flailed at the plate quite a bit this year despite notable improvements over the course by guys like Alex Gordon, Mark Grudzielanek, Billy Butler, and (shrug) Emil Brown. So how do the Royals measure up to the league averages by position?

Catcher LA: .252/.315/.391

John Buck - .226/.316/.459

Jason LaRue - .141/.230/.275

Buddy Bell's self-fulfilled prophecy has, uh, come true. Neither catcher is hitting well right now, but it still should be painfully obvious that Buck has waaaaaaaay more value than LaRue. In fact, even though he's hitting .228, Buck's OBP is one tick above average for AL catchers and his slugging percentage is a nifty 68 points higher. In other words, Buck's secondary skills (power, higher walk rate) are carrying him to the point where he's still above average. Was anyone else surprised to see how low the league average was for American League catchers?

Jason LaRue is terrible at hitting a baseball. No two ways above it.

First Base LA: .270/.348/.446

Ross Gload - .301/.321/.462

Ryan Shealy - .221/.286/.308

Anyone else long for the days where Ryan Shealy was going to be a slugging presence in the middle of the line-up for the Royals? Shealy OPSed nearly 800 in his first go-round with the Royals in 2006, but between injuries and general suckiness, he proved totally incapable of follow his 2006 act. It really was a bit uncanny how bad he was. Get well soon, Ryan, your MLB career depends on it.

For you Ross Gload fans out there, this is me acknowledging that Gload has exploded all the way up to the vicinity of the DH-diluted average line for an AL first basemen (though the loss in OBP hurts more than the gain in power). If he were a guy who played a position up the middle of the diamond, I'd like him. He's not, and the end result is he's logged a lot of playing time at first that hasn't turned out as bad as I would have expected. He's absitively posolutely not the future at first for the Royals, but keeping him around to sub at the corners is fine.

Second Base LA: .282/.339/.413

Mark Grudzielanek - .304/.346/.439

Esteban German - .265/.357/.369

Another fine season for Grudzielanek, as he ends up being a pretty nifty player at second when you factor in his (generally accepted) above average defense. He's outstripped the LA second basemen on all three hitting line fronts as his batting average his risen steadily after a slow start. The lone problem with Grudzielanek is that he has to keep hitting around three hundred to keep this up, and players with his skillset--low walk totals, no speed--can disappear off the map when they get old. No disrespect meant to Mark, of course. He's an oldie, and, for now, he's a goody.

German's batting average is running a little low for him, and so he really hasn't been as good as Grudzielanek to this point in the year. If he gets back up around .280, the Grudzielanek-German celebrity deathmatch needs to be arranged to settle this matter once and for all. In any case, German's been a useful reserve again this year, with a very good walk rate that suggests he could hold down a starting job at second if someone gives him a shot.

Shortstop LA: .270/.323/.394

Tony Pena Jr. - .262/.282/.345

Pena's got just nine walks all year long, which is impatience to the point where it's very very hard for any other skill to compensate for it. Pena's defense has got good, not great, reviews from the jumble of metrics and observers that one is forced to go by when getting into a serious defense evaluation discussion. He's contributed twenty doubles on the year as well, and he probably takes his vitamins and loves his mom. He's still not even close to being a league average shortstop with the bat. There are plenty of things that you can do to compensate for a .282 OBP. Examples include slugging .700, rescuing handicapped orphans from evil villains every morning, firing Joe Morgan from ESPN, feeding an entire third world country, and qualifying for sainthood. Actually the fact of the matter is that even if Pena takes the Mother Teresa life path, it would be hard for me to recommend him to an actual baseball team. He's too old to expect much in the way of improvement. Please pass the Moose Tacos.

Third Base LA: .263/.332/.425

Alex Gordon - .244/.319/.401

Another one where I expected the league average line to be higher, which just goes to show that there are some pretty crappy third basemen lying around. Gordon is not anywhere near as crappy as early in the season, and has broken the .400 mark for his slugging percentage. Amazingly, after hitting about .043 over the first eight months of the season, Gordon is twenty BA points from being almost dead-on league average.

Needless to say, we all expect Alex to be capable of greater things, but it's encouraging that he's managed to do better here in the second half. If there's anything un-obvious that bothers me here, it's that his OBP is hiked up because of HBPs. I asked Alex if he thought that was a repeatable skill, and all he did was smirk knowingly. Here's hoping he's the next Craig Biggio in that regard, because every little bit helps.

AL Left Field LA: .273/.333/.423

Joey Gathright - .347/.404/.388

Needless to say, there's more to this than meets the eye. Gathright, gosh love him for his positive contributions to KC this year, is OPSing thirty-six points above league average. If I was absolutely positive he could replicate his current line over a full season, I'd already have penciled him in as a starter for 2008 with "+" next to his name. He's a speedster who isn't bad in the outfield, and is virtually incapable of hitting for power (.41 IsoP[!]). In other words, he's kind of like good-year Scott Podsednik right now.

Joey's career line, even with this year's 160 PAs, is .269/.335/.320. That's not acceptable from a center fielder, much less a corner outfielder. How much you value Gathright depends on the weight you place on his at-bats this season as compared to the way he's hit in the majors in the past. Given this, it should be pretty unsurprising that I can't take him seriously as a good starting solution for next year. No matter how much you think 2007 represents an improvement for Gathright as opposed to a fluky 160 PAs, you are not going to convince me that he's going to hit .347 every year. Albert Pujols doesn't hit .347 every year. No one does. So, how high do you expect his average to stay once he comes back to earth? That's the question you need to ask if you want to project Gathright's value for next year. If Joey's "true ability" is hitting .305, for example, and you give him credit for his current level of power and patience, he'd hit around .305/.365/.355. Vintage Podzilla, and nowhere near good enough to start in left field and be a plus, but arguably good enough for center. If his true ability is around .285 (sixteen points higher than his career average)...well...it doesn't matter where he plays.

Center Field LA: .270/.333/.424

David DeJesus - .277/.356/.392

Super Joey - .347/.404/.388

NHZ Optimism Joey - .305/.365/.355

NHZ Pessisism Joey - .285/.345/.335

Career Line Joey - .269/.335/.320

Let the argument begin. DeJesus, with his solid hitting, patience approach, and low salary is both one of the Royals most reliable assets and at the same time one of their best trading chips. He doesn't have the "no power" rep that Joey does, and he's not paid much, so it's reasonable to assume that he could bring a pretty good return. The thing is, what with him already signed at below market prices and being a plus with the bat (if definitely not a star), trading him what with the Royals' lack of good bats seems loony when looked at from another angle.

DeJesus is probably a little above league average because twenty-odd points of OBP are worth more than the equivalent SLG points. DeJesus does have some extra base power, with fourty XBH from the lead-off position this year. His past history woudl suggest his BA is a little low right now, but not too low compared to what you expect. It appears that "this" is what he is, as preseason breakout predictions really haven't come true, but he's still a useful player at a key defensive position who you can expect to be at least average with the bat, maybe a little more. To facilitate the whole DeJesus-Gathright match-up, I include the four horsemen of Joey: Super, Optimist NHZ, Pessimist NHZ, and Career Line. Super looks like an improvement on DDJ for sure. Optimist is acceptable but nothing that DDJ can't do better. Pessimist is bad. Career line is worse. I report, you decide. Who's the better option in center next year if DDJ maintains his previous levels of performance?

Right Field LA: .287/.358/.464

Emil Brown - .245/.296/.346

Mark Teahen - .284/.351/.407

Shane "The Pain" Costa - .200/.219/.243

A recent topic on RR was that Emil and his Noodle Bat might be an illusion brought on by lack of playing time, and that Emil might be league average again if he had been allowed to play through his slump the whole way. Even so, even if you up all Brown's percentages by fourty points, his power is down this year and "league average, old, and with bad defense" is not exactly a performance that screams "he's a building block" anyway.

Mark Teahen I somehow forgot about when I initially put this article together, which must have had something to do with him being on the DL. Those familar with Mark's performance this season and his off-season shoulder surgery might have actually expected him to go the disabled left earlier as Teahen's power has been sapped compared to last year when he slugged .517. For now, it is kind of for us to know what to expect from Teahen in 2008, as I think shoulder surgery has both limited his power and upped his k-rate. While I would hesitate to predict Teahen slugging .517 next year, I think he can get back to league average for a RF--820 OPS--with room for improvement. For now, Mark's plate discipline has remained intact, which is encouraging, but he missed the LA slugging line by sixty points. We all like Teahen a lot, I think, but I really hope I'm right about a bounceback next season because a .407 SLG won't help much in a corner spot.

Shane Costa is included her so those so inclined can tell nasty jokes about him behind his back. Costa's performance this year is like a terrible sandwich from McDonald's: the next time around he'll be better, but that doesn't mean there should be a next time around for the McChicken...or for Shane.

Designated Hitter LA: .263/.350/.433

Billy Ray Butler - .295/.352/.436

He'a already a league average DH at age 21, which is yet another way of saying that Billy Ray is going to be a good one. With muscular maturation and experience will come the power he displayed in the minors, and I think I speak for us all when I say that thank god he hasn't been Huberized. Butler should be a very good hitter for a very long time. The only question now is if he can play first well enough to start there, or if he's a career DH. It's not the worst thing in the world to be a career DH.

In Conclusion, We Stink

Naturally, it's not as cut and dried as that. However, if you go by this year's batting lines, Grudzielanek, Gathright, and Butler are the three definite above averages for the Royals. If you read this closely, you know what I think about the chances of Gathright and Grudzielanek repeating their 2007 production next year. DeJesus is probably a little better than league average. Buck is defintely better than average thanks to all his dingers, but LaRue has ruined everything when it comes to catcher (maybe a slight exagerration).

In the end, we're left with a team that needs a healthy dose of power and patience in the line-up next year. For those of you who haven't already done so, I recommend you visit the FA diary by NYRoyal that's on the main page to view which guys you think could fit the bill. By my count, we need a 1B/DH, a corner outfielder (maybe two) who can hit the ball over the fence (preferably one without a BB gun), and a shortstop. Other than that, we're not bad off in the line-up if the young players like Gordon and Butler improve.

Spreadsheet Baseball returns next week but probably not at its regular time due to my return to my institute of higher learning. Sorry for my recent absence; I always get sick when falls sets in and the temperature changes, blah. For this week's edition of SB, comments/questions are welcome/encouraged.

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Joey's hits
Gathright is getting a high percentage of his hits from beating out IF singles and bunt singles.  That is a repeatable skill.  Those aren't fluky hits.  That is what speed can get you when you focus on putting the ball on the ground.  I can't see why I should expect him to beat out fewer IF singles or be less successful with bunts.

by NYRoyal on Aug 28, 2007 7:07 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

One more note on Joey
It really shouldn't be a big surprise when a 26 year old shows improvement.  And why would we expect a 26 year old player to regress in his 27-year-old season?  Young players often improve.  Shouldn't we give them credit for that improvement and not assume it is a mirage?

by NYRoyal on Aug 28, 2007 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You and I are going to butt heads over Joey
for a while, it seems. :P

160 PAs of hitting .347 does not seem to me like a new performance level. I don't see how anyone can assume that Gathright can keep maintaining one of the best BAs in the game when he's never had that type of ability in the majors before.

It's not a surprise to me that Joey's had a good 160 PAs because anyone can. I do believe that he's improved, just clearly nowhere near as much as you do. I expect him to regress because his numbers are so dependent on batting average, and I don't think he's capable of repeating a .347 average over a whole season. A fluky-high BA is something that regresses to the mean for a lot of hitters, and sometimes proves to be a legitimate improvement. I can't say that I think Gathright's gone from a .250 hitter to a .350 hitter when it comes to his real ability based on the sample of 160 PAs.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Aug 28, 2007 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think a .380 OBP is doable
I think he can hit over .300 and maybe develop a bit more plate discipline.  Add some line drive power and you've got a good hitter.  It will take some additional development.

Still think he's a good 4th OFer.  But he may have to start in 2008 until we acquire a good 3rd OFer.

by NYRoyal on Aug 28, 2007 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Then there's your disconnect
I just don't think he's going to get all that much more power, and it's harder to work walks when the pitcher isn't afraid of you homering.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Aug 29, 2007 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

.400 SLG
You don't have to hit many line drives to manage a .400 SLG, particularly with Joey's speed.  And you can draw walks when you show patience.  I think his patience is gradually improving.  We'll see.

by NYRoyal on Aug 29, 2007 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting Analysis
Thanks NHZ.  Always appreciate your view.  

I'm a little split on Joey.  I love the speed.  I love the first to third and the knowledge that if he's on first he can score on any extra-base hit.  It's exciting.  

I just think that for us to have Gathright in the line-up (and not stealing basebases), we have to have some other offensive punch.  DJ..is average, but he does everything average, so I think he's more valuable and should be our CF.

Kind of a tough call to be honest.

by Stook on Aug 28, 2007 10:12 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Pena
TPJ is younger than his age when it comes to hitting. I think it's reasonable to expect continued improvement in this area, both in approach and skills. He'll never bat .300 or anything, but he can get to .270 and take some more walks. We can get by and probably even contend with him as the only hole in the lineup. We just can't have holes at 1B and LF.

By the way, you left out Teahen in RF. I know, out of sight out of mind, but for crying out loud, he was batting third and leading the team in RBI two weeks ago. I'm interested to know where he stacks up with league average. My gut feel is he's below, but not horribly.

by Big Guy on Aug 28, 2007 11:08 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Why no Teahen?
Glaring omission from an otherwise informative article.
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!

by cmkeller on Aug 29, 2007 12:11 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Teahen

Teahen: .284  .351  .407 .767  (95 OPS +)

LA RF:  .287  .358  .464  .821 (105 OPS +)

Sort of depressing, actually, after last year's seeming breakout. Perhaps almost as overrated even by intelligent fans as Gathright.

by devil_fingers on Aug 29, 2007 9:54 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

One more thing
Even the BA seems a bit high given his contact rate.

I'm curious what other people think. I'm saddened by this because I'm a Teahen fan. Who's the real Mark Teahen, the guy who hit for power last year, or the guy who racked up RBIs by being in a lucky spot in the line up this year, and whose mediocrity got overlooked due to the struggles of young Alex?

by devil_fingers on Aug 29, 2007 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow
I have no idea how the heck I left him out. Very odd. I'll add him now. Sorry about that.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Aug 29, 2007 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know I'm the only one still bullish on Costa...
But I do think it's worth noting that the guy has only received 73 PA while with KC this year, with a handful of those coming as a pinch hitter. His career MLB line against lefty's is a brutal 190/226/310, but again we're only talking about 63 PA.

I guess I just feel that KC could afford to give a guy with a career minor league line of 314/377/475 a serious look for the rest of the year to at least see if he's capable of improving on the awful 285 OBP he's put up for KC in his career. In my blinded eyes, I see his walk numbers in Omaha this year as being somewhat indicative that he could.

His fate is frankly already determined as a AAAA player, but his numbers display some slugging potential. With the power outage in the outfield this year, you'd think they could find some PAs for a 904 OPS in 264 PA coming out of Omaha this year.

by Dodge Buck Night on Aug 29, 2007 11:04 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm just not sure Costa has
the approach to being any kind of success as a MLB hitter, what with the impatience he's shown.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Aug 29, 2007 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just no advantage to it
Costa doesn't have the physical tools that anyone he might replace have. He's slower than Gathwright and Brown. He doesn't hit for the average of either. And he's ANOTHER left-handed bat in our already too-left-handed outfield. And there is no upside to giving him more of a shot. Frankly, I'd rather see them cut bait on him and get Huber or Maeir or Lubanski up to give them a shot. At least they have ML potential. Costa is clearly a AAAA player who could max out at backup OF if all goes perfectly. We've got plenty of backup OFs.

by Big Guy on Aug 29, 2007 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i am coming around on costa
but still maintain my devotion to huber

can i love them both?

by royalsreview on Aug 29, 2007 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes
Just make sure you never go somewhere with one where you could be seen by the other. A kid on my hockey team in high school dated two girls at once and it didn't work well.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Aug 29, 2007 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I Always Look For Wisdom
On these matters in bad '70's ballads.
http://www.superseventies.com/1977_7singles.html
Being a fan is irrational, but what is the alternative?

by philofthenorth on Aug 30, 2007 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great post
Although it does sort of depress me, knowing what kind of FA there are out there.  The thing I can get excited about is how young we are and the possibility of improvement.

by I need more Esteban on Aug 29, 2007 12:27 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Good job...
I disagree on a couple of points but it is good to see the offense laid out light that.  We really need a bat.  Either by trade or a FA... we need to acquire one or two.  We aren't going to improve if we don't.

I too like Gator a lot.  I think he adds a spark to the team when he is in there and he does things with his speed that nobody else can do.  

Another great job, good luck with the school year.    

by grudz69 on Aug 29, 2007 12:38 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

This may be surprisingly random
But there's no reason to believe the offense hasn't drastically underachieved this season.  Here are how I expect the Royals players to perform this season, based on their past results and age (mixed with typical career progression).  (This is more or less the Opening Day starting lineup, or roster)

C - John Buck
.250/.325/.470, 20 HR, 60 RBI (Underachieved significantly)
1B - Ryan Shealy
.260/.330/.420, 15 HR, 65 RBI (Underachieved DRAMATICALLY)
2B - Mark Grudzielanek
.275/.330/.400, 5 HR, 50 RBI (Overachieved slightly)
3B - Alex Gordon
.260/.340/.420, 18 HR, 70 RBI (Underachieved significantly)
SS - Tony Pena, Jr.
.240/.290/.350, 2 HR, 40 RBI (Overachieved slightly)
LF - Emil Brown
.265/.340/.450, 20 HR, 70 RBI (Underachieved significantly)
CF - David DeJesus
.290/.370/.430, 10 HR, 60 RBI (Underachieved slightly)
RF - Mark Teahen
.275/.380/.440, 15 HR, 75 RBI (Underachieved significantly)
DH - Mike Sweeney
.270/.350/.400, 15 HR, 70 RBI (Underachieved, alarming to see his refusal to take a walk the last two seasons)

C - Jason LaRue (Underachieved dramatically)
1B - Ross Gload (On-par)
2B - Esteban German (Underachieved slightly)
OF - Shane Costa (Underachieved slightly)
OF - Joey Gathright (Overachieved significantly)
OF - Reggie Sanders (Underachieved given injury)
OF - Billy Butler (Overachieved)

Those whose stats I gave are just our Opening Day guys, and yes some of that production has been offset by the surgent production of Joey Gathright and Billy Butler, who have probably performed above most fans' expectations this season.  However, that production has even been offset by the "Debbie Downers" of Jason LaRue (who has been overplayed and has also underperformed) and Reggie Sanders (who has underperformed based on his injuries).

There's no question in my mind that Buddy Bell and hitting coach Mike Barnett's offensive philosophies have been a detriment to this ballclub this season.  Their "hack, hack, hack" approach have caused our walk total to decrease dramatically, especially from our capabilities.  That, in turn, has caused our OBP to dramatically decrease.  Yes, we have players on our roster who are not typically known for drawing the walk: Tony Pena and Mark Grudzielanek included.  However, there's still no doubt in my mind we have underachieved in that area.

That falls back to hitting coach Mike Barnett and, ultimately, Buddy Bell.  My only worry is not that we have underachieved in the win column (as a result) this season, but that it may affect our young players in the future.  The core of this team - Billy Butler, Mark Teahen, David DeJesus, Alex Gordon, and John Buck ALL included - needs to be patient and draw walks.  Buddy and Barnett have hindered their progress in this area significantly this season.

http://royalsnation.proboards62.com/index.cgi?action=chat

by Royals Nation on Aug 29, 2007 12:51 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree, in general
I think this was an underachieving offense.  Many players underperformed this season.  I wouldn't include Buck in that group, but there are many others.  Even if we have the same exact position players, we should expect significant overall offensive improvement next year.

by NYRoyal on Aug 29, 2007 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agree
Especially with Butler and Gordon.  I, for one, expect Gordon to have a monster year next year.
http://royalsnation.proboards62.com/index.cgi?action=chat

by Royals Nation on Aug 29, 2007 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Buck
Have to say your catcher findings do not surprise me in the least.  People really do not understand how weak the position is offensively.

That's why Buck is JUST FINE and why playing La Rue in his place is a managerial malpractice so gross that Bell should be banned from baseball for it.

by BlueEyesAustin on Aug 29, 2007 12:58 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Agree that the damage has been done
Even if Jason LaRue is released today, and Paul Phillips or Matt Tupman - the logical choice for a team like the Royals - is called up to replace him, the damage of playing LaRue 40% of the time for a significant chunk of the season has been done.
http://royalsnation.proboards62.com/index.cgi?action=chat

by Royals Nation on Aug 29, 2007 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

NHZ, late question
What methodology did you use to determine league average for the various positions?  Just curious.

by NYRoyal on Aug 29, 2007 2:29 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

League Average AL
listed in the custom stats report at BP. Though actually I think ESPN and some of other mainstream sports sites have the same info. The key word here is "American" as the National League Averages are different.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Aug 29, 2007 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

LaRue
"a back-up catcher."

Hahaha.

by mazoboom on Aug 29, 2007 3:57 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Gathright
Hard to know what to think about him anymore. I was in the anti-Joey camp, but if nothing else, this small sample success is worth considering.

Here's my concern - last time I checked, Joey had a RIDICULOUS BABIP somewhere around 415! I find it hard to believe that is sustainable, even for the very best bunter in the world. For one thing, if he ends up coming up in more situations that are NOT bases empty, then that affects his bunt single possiblilities just by itself. Ichiro! has been one of the perennial leaders in infield hits in the past, and I seriously doubt if he was able to ever post a BABIP that high.

NYRoyal's optimistic view is Joey could post a 380 OBP. I think Rob & Rany have stated in the past that Joey would need to post an OBP of around 370-375 to have any real value, considering his relatively poor slugging percentages, his mediocre SB %, and his average defense. That figure seems reasonable to me, so the question is could he do it? I still have my doubts, but I certainly think he has earned the chance for the rest of this season, and perhaps for part of next season if he still looks good in spring. He does look better at the plate to this naked eye, but as much better as he needs to be to be valuable? That's a tough call.

I will disagree with somebody's statement about Joey on here saying that he looked like he has improved his plate discipline. His walk rate has not improved, and in actuality he is averaging a bit less pitches per plate appearance than he has in the past...

by loyal2s dad on Aug 29, 2007 5:53 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Heh, good post
Way to make me look lazy by looking up the BABIP. Good points.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Aug 29, 2007 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The question about Joey
is what are we saying we should do with him?
  • Has he earned a chance to stay on the ML team? Clearly.
  • Do we forego opportunities to improve at corner outfield or center field positions because he's here? Not on your life.
If he continues to play to the ability he's shown recently, he could be a starter in CF on a team with the right guys in LF and RF (think Otis Nixon). More likely, he's a backup guy, good for pinch running, situational duty and a good fill in for a top-line CF in case of injury.

We're not competing with DDJ, Teahen and Gath in the OF, no matter how good Butler, Gordon and a 1B/DH to be named later play.

by Big Guy on Aug 29, 2007 6:16 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Good post
I think this is about right.  I'd actually be willing to go into 2008 with Joey as a starter...but he's filling that slot in pencil, not in pen!

by BlueEyesAustin on Aug 29, 2007 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gathright as trade bait?
I think that he might make an OK 4th outfielder at best. And, sadly, as other people pointed out (albeit in a less negative fashion), that might be good enough to start for the Royals next year. Do what you have to do.

Nonetheless, why not see if there is another GM out there seduced by his speed, and see if we can get something better for him? Granted, that might  mean the Royals are slightly worse in LF, but if they can address another need (pitching, middle infield) in the high minors, even, isn't is worth it? I mean, 20-30 points of OPS in LF aren't going to cost the Royals a shot at the wild card next year, right?

by devil_fingers on Aug 30, 2007 1:07 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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