Future Royals Manager?

by nkkc on Sep 13, 2007 2:24 PM EDT Comment 33 comments

From Jon Heyman of si.com:

Word going around is that Buck Martinez will probably be considered as a replacement for retiring Royals manager Buddy Bell. Martinez, the former Blue Jays and WBC manager and a longtime Royal, may be interested in a return home, though he's thriving as co-host with Mark Patrick on XM's Baseball This Morning.

Anybody think this would be a good fit. It's the first I've heard of Martinez in quite some time. I don't think I've heard him mentioned for a managing job at all since he left the Blue Jays. And I don't particularly remember how he did with the Blue Jays. All I know is that I used to like listening to him call games for ESPN. Time to do some research.

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Buck Martinez

2001 80-82
2002 20-33 (finished 78-84)

He inherited a 83-79 team.

The 2001 Jays ran a lot. They finished third in the league with 156 steals. They were 11th in walks drawn.

Toronto general manager J.P. Ricciardi said Martinez, who went to the Blue Jays bench before last season directly from the broadcast booth, was fired because of his lack of experience and leadership.

"I don't know if Buck even knows what his philosophy or style is because he hasn't had a lot of time to manage," Ricciardi said. "It's not so much the wins, the losses at this point - it's more the leadership."...

Ricciardi said the team quit halfway through last season, and if things went as they did last year, a change would be made.

-June 4, 2002

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Sep 13, 2007 2:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

That 2001 team

Seemed to be compromised mostly of guys in their prime - Carlos Delgado, Shannon Stewart, Raul Mondesi, Jose Cruz Jr., Alex Gonzalez. No starter was younger than 26, and only catcher Darren Fletcher was over 30.

They did have some young bench players like Felipe Lopez, Cesar Izturis and Vernon Wells.

Their pitching staff was decent, with again mostly guys between the ages of 26-30 including Chris Carpetner and Esteban Loaiza. They did have a young Roy Halladay and a young Kelvim Escobar.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Sep 13, 2007 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It sounds like he had a lot of talent

to not win with those teams. Of course, in the AL East against the Yanks and Red Sox is no easy task. If he couldn't win with youth there, then he's going to have a tough time in KC.

by lordbyronk on Sep 13, 2007 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

anyone but pendleton

Anyone but Terry

by FireBell on Sep 13, 2007 3:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Why?

I don't really have a favorite and I don't feel particularly good or bad about Pendleton because I don't know much about how he would manage. What don't you like about him?

by NYRoyal on Sep 13, 2007 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

tired of being braves west

don't want a first time guy, etc.

Anyone but Terry

by FireBell on Sep 13, 2007 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Right now, I don't have many thoughts on who

the next manager will be. I know I am tired of a "good baseball man who will bring leadership to the organization." Too much Tony Muser and Buddy Bell for me. My hunch is GMDM will draw from someone he knows in the past whether they are currently with the Braves or not. Experience or not, doesn't make a difference. Buddy has lots and look at his results. Muser and Pena had none - well, I try to forget these things.

What I would like to see is a manager who is professionally respected whether experienced or not. I'd like a guy with a track record of bringing young players along - we'll need that in the next 5 years - pitching and regulars. Finally, a guy who likes be aggressive. KC can't play the old "wait for a 3 run homer" style. Ballpark and talent dictate otherwise.

by daveyork on Sep 13, 2007 6:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I agree...

GMDM is going to hire someone he is very comfortable with and who he feels can take our talented youngsters and make them play as a cohesive team.

I want someone who doesn't rule out anything in the game of baseball. Small ball, long ball, outside the box and much more, a free thinker who can surprise even the most experienced baseball guru.

by grudz69 on Sep 13, 2007 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Above all...

...they need to hire someone who is gritty and likes gritty ballplayers.

by cookierojas73 on Sep 13, 2007 6:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

David Eckstein

player/manager.

by andrewmiller on Sep 13, 2007 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

(puke)

"True friends stab you in the front."-Oscar Wilde.

by NHZ on Sep 15, 2007 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why not Frank White?

Frank would be working with players he's lived with and worked with as they were coming through Wichita. Assuming they respect him -- and I have heard nothing to think they don't -- White would be a fan favorite and a bridge to the glory days of Royals baseball.

What are the stats? A manager's direct decisions make a tangible difference in about a dozen games a season? Something like that. And those strategic and tactical decisions come from being in the hot seat.

The Roylz will be better next season, but only a cockeyed optimist can expect for the team to be within 12 critical games of a World Series championship.

So give Frank White the chance he's worked for, the job he set his sights on, the goal he's obviously done everything within his power to achieve.

As a kid, Frank was a good athlete who, thanks to Ewing Kauffman's Baseball Academy, learned the game of baseball. He was an exceptional student of the game. Perhaps he can prove to be a great teacher.

90% of this game is half mental

by MonkeyHawk on Sep 13, 2007 10:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

White won't be a fan favorite

If the team loses 95-105 games.

by jbrocato on Sep 14, 2007 6:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The man you just described

Sounds a lot like Alan Trammell in Detroit. How did that work out?

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Sep 14, 2007 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That was my point.

When I was in Detroit this summer, I had a number of good conversations with Tigers fans. One thing they said saddens them is that Tigers fans under 20 only know Trammell as the man who lost 119 games in one season as manager, not as a longtime Detroit fixture at SS.

I'm 34 and I associate Frank Robinson as much with lots of losing in Baltimore as I do with one of the great playing careers of all time.

It would be sad if one year from now, this message board is calling for the head of one of Kansas City's most beloved ballplayers.

by jbrocato on Sep 14, 2007 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I still want a former pitcher or pitching coach.

Let's move our pitching coach up to manager and then hire Sabes!

"I DARE you to make less sense."

by dejackso on Sep 14, 2007 8:27 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

KC Star article on the topic

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/royals/story/274664.html

Like the name Brian Snitker as someone who might be a candidate. Ned Yost has done a good job with the Brewers with no managerial experience. The guys like Jim Fregosi don't do much for me.

by daveyork on Sep 14, 2007 9:51 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Bob Dutton

Seems to be pulling names from his ass. I don't like this though:

Friends and former associates, however, suggest a likely profile:

An old-school baseball man with a proven ability to motivate young players. Previous managerial experience, particularly at the big-league level, is a strong preference but not an absolute requirement.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Sep 14, 2007 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dutton just described

Tony Muser

by marbotty on Sep 14, 2007 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

let me also add

That an adherence to old-school philosophy in today's baseball environment is about as wise a move as tossing out the PCs in your office and replacing them with typewriters

Sure, it works, but you're going to be miles behind your competitors.

by marbotty on Sep 14, 2007 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

How many current MLB managers

...do not adhere to "old-school philosophy"? Do you really think there are more than a couple managers in baseball that are unconventional and innovative? If so, tell me who they are.

by NYRoyal on Sep 15, 2007 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Who do you want to be the manager?

It seems like you're ready to argue with everyone else's ideas about what a manager should do or should be. What do you look for in a manager? Is Buddy Bell your ideal man for the job? :P

"True friends stab you in the front."-Oscar Wilde.

by NHZ on Sep 15, 2007 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Whoa

I'm not ready to argue with everyone's idea of who our manager should be. I would very much like an innovator. I would very much like an unconventional manager who doesn't just follow decades old traditions. I would love to have a manager who looks at things in new ways and doesn't just go "by the book."

I found fault with the assertion that getting an old-schook, traditional manager puts a team "miles behind your competitors." Unless I'm missing something, there are very, very few managers who aren't traditional, by-the-book managers. So, how would a manager like that put us miles behind our competitors. Now maybe I have missed the fresh thinking, innovative managers that are out there. So if anyone can think of a few of them, let me know.

by NYRoyal on Sep 15, 2007 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think perhaps that

"old school, traditional" reminds us a little too much of pitcher-scraggers like Dusty Baker.

If you're asking me who I consider to be more of the "unconventional" sort that I want managing my team, I'd like the team to have someone who's flexible with the pitching staff and spots his back-ups in where they'll be of use.

I like Mike Scioscia because he thinks outside the box with his relief pitchers, and he manages his speedsters well. I like Manny Acta because he's shown some knowledge of sabermetric ideas. I like Tito Francona because he'll use guys who are pitching well in high-leverage situations instead of getting caught up in a formulaic approach all the time. All three of these guys seem to get along with the players well, and I don't discount the positive effect that can have. Managers have different styles, and ideally you want one that focuses on your teams' strengths.

I wouldn't call either, "innovative," but I think Charlie Manuel's "AL-style" managing is good for the bat-heavy Phils, and Bud Black has done a good job piloting San Diego's host of bad hitters.

Innovators? Maybe that's a little strong, but I would not call Scioscia, Acta, or Francona "traditional." I don't really know what "traditional" or "innovative" is defined as, but I think these three are good examples of forward-thinking managers who can have a positive influence on their team's performance.

"True friends stab you in the front."-Oscar Wilde.

by NHZ on Sep 15, 2007 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Three

That sounds about right. Three managers who are, in some ways, not entirely traditional and "old school." Certainly they are not entirely innovative. They are not radically different from other managers, but they are untraditional in some good ways.

So, I'd love to have a manager who is something of a free thinker and who is untraditional in some good ways. But, if we don't get a manager like that, then it appears that we will be at a competitive disadvantage -- with regard to managing -- against only three teams.

by NYRoyal on Sep 16, 2007 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The problem with managers

is that it is so hard to determine exactly how much influence they have on the outcome of a 162-game season. Torre is the obvious example: terrible at St Louis; much, much better at NYY. It's so much easier to make an opinion on basketball/football coaches then managers, as you can see their philosophy in the defenses/offenses they run. Basketball coaches can set up a trap, run a high-low, a zone D, do all sorts of things to affect the outcome of the game. There are no real "plays" in baseball like the other sports. Other than hit and runs, when to bring a reliever in, etc., baseball comes down to pitcher vs. batter. A manager is therefore almost entirely handcuffed by the talent he has on the field, and has to sit back and watch as Gordon tries to get a hit just like the rest of us.

That said, I have no idea whether Fregosi, White, Pendleton, et al would be any good as a manager of the Royals. Priority number one to me would be that they have shown an ability to get the best out of young players. Are there any studies that show whether managerial experience in the minors translates to the majors? Does experience managing in the majors make that much more of a difference then in the minors? I do not envy GM Moore at all. This will be the biggest decision he makes, and it seems to me that hiring a new manager is damn near a crap shoot.

by nkkc on Sep 14, 2007 11:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

My Vote Goes To

A life-size Freddy Patek bobblehead.

Being a fan is irrational, but what is the alternative?

by philofthenorth on Sep 15, 2007 4:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Too many women would want to have sex

with it. Freddie was a stud when he was a Royal, a living, breathing sex symbol. Go Mr. P.

by grudz69 on Sep 15, 2007 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I will throw these two out...

Bryan Price - Pitching coach for the Diamondbacks and or Wally Joiner - Hitting coach for the Padres. I like the way Price has handled the pitching staffs for both Seattle and Arizona. Joiner would be an ex-Royal that had a lot of success as a player and has been through all facets of the game.

The above being said I still think GMDM will hire someone from his past. Someone that he knows well and has a long history with.

by grudz69 on Sep 15, 2007 5:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I've thrown this out there

before, but I like Arizona bench coach Kirk Gibson. Former Royal, very firey. I don't know if he'd be worth a damn, but it would be fun.

by royaldaddy on Sep 15, 2007 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He would be in my top ten....

just because he is Kirk Gibson....

by grudz69 on Sep 15, 2007 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Chuck Norris

Would be the ultimate.

Being a fan is irrational, but what is the alternative?

by philofthenorth on Sep 16, 2007 4:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Bill James

Okay, this is off the wall and out of the box and it ain't gonna happen.

I discovered the "Baseball Abstracts" years ago and came to appreciate them not just for his statistical analyses but for his skill in approaching baseball questions.

Seems like the most difficult job of a baseball manager these days is dealing with second-guessing of the the press and fans. No one is better equipped to deal with snarkers than a guy who can tell you that 86% of the time, on artifical turf, in cities with relative humidity below 72%, a left-handed banjo hitter will hit for extra bases against a southpaw sinkerball pitcher who's had three-days' rest and last played two time-zones away.

Meanwhile, put the kids on the field and let them play and learn the game.

90% of this game is half mental

by MonkeyHawk on Sep 17, 2007 7:43 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs