Mark Teahen

by raysrule07 on Jan 13, 2008 2:23 PM EST Comment 12 comments

Hello everyone, as you can probably tell from my username, I'm a Rays fan(though I am from Kansas).

Anyways, the Rays need a player who can play 3B, 1B, and some OF, and preferably someone who hits left-handed. Mark Teahen fits this profile perfectly. I'm not very good at gauging the value of players on other teams, so I thought I'd ask you guys what you think the Royals plans are for Teahen, and what kind of value they would be looking for in return if they were to trade him, and what areas the team would be looking to address in making trades.

Thanks in advance.

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Needs and value

Holes on the team include SS, 1B and starting pitching. As far as value, we're probably biased, but in another thread, we've discussed whether we would trade Teahen straight up for Noah Lowry who is at least a pretty good, established, young, cheap starting pitcher.

In short, we would need a good (but not great) pretty young, cheap player who fills a Royals need and is under team control for the next 3 or so years.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Jan 13, 2008 2:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

we love talking about Mark Teahen...

but unfortunately, I don't think many of us are quite sure what we have.

I love the guy, but am now convinced he's more valuable to someone else (as a 3B) than he is to the Royals (as a RF).

A hypothetical Teahen-Noah Lowry trade was mentioned just this friday here

http://www.royalsreview.com/story/2008/1/10/15584/0254

by royalsreview on Jan 13, 2008 5:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

i'd take.. say

the number 5 guy in the Rays system

Hillman, you're on notice.

by FireBell on Jan 13, 2008 7:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Reid Brignac?

There is no way the Rays would do that trade. Brignac could very well be an All-Star SS, Teahen is a bench guy, a very useful and versatile one, but still a bench guy.

by raysrule07 on Jan 13, 2008 7:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Then things got silly

FireBell was just throwing out a prospect we'd like to get. But for you to say that Teahen is just a bench guy is ludicrous. It shows that you really know nothing about Teahen. If you think he's a bench guy, then you wouldn't be interested in giving up what he's truly worth.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Jan 13, 2008 7:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It's not ludicrous

It may be taking a negative view of him, but I have read on this very site that he is maddeningly inconsistent and will probably be playing multiple positions next year, not things usually said about an established starter.

You say I know nothing about Teahen, well, my view that he has had a good 1/2 of a season, and other than that he's been a little below average for a corner player, but still solid. Overall, he's a solid, versatile player who can step into multiple positions and be a regular if needed, and he has the potential, as shown by the second 1/2 of 2007, that he can be an above-average player, but his inconsistency hurts him. If you want to say I know nothing about him, then next time, maybe after telling me that I'm wrong, you could tell me what the correct assessment would be, instead of just saying my assessment is ludicrous.

A player like Teahen is very valuable, and I know that, but a potential All-Star and the best prospect in the game at his position(Brignac) is worth more than a great bench player/below-average regular. I understand that FireBell was just throwing out a prospect that you would like to get, and I just said it wasn't going to happen, because the Rays value Brignac very highly, even though he is only the 5th best prospect in our system, because we have the best system in the game.

by raysrule07 on Jan 13, 2008 9:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Reply

He might play more than one position only because 1) the Royals have more than one hole in their lineup and 2) he's very versatile and can play any corner IF or OF position, and probably CF.

Overall, he has been a solid, versatile player and that is in his age 23-25 seasons. Typically players his age are still improving and have not hit there peak yet. He had a poor rookie season, like most rookie players. Then he had an excellent sophomore season. He followed that with an average MLB season in his third year. I think the most likely performance for Teahen going forward is somewhere in between his last two seasons. That would be, in my opinion, .287/.355/.475. That is approximately average for a corner OFer and well above average for a 3B. That is no bench player or super-utility player. In addition to that he's an above average defensive OFer with a cannon for an arm. He's also got good speed. He's not a great base stealer, but he's one of the best baserunners in MLB.

but a potential All-Star and the best prospect in the game at his position(Brignac) is worth more than a great bench player/below-average regular.

Perhaps. But in addition to his ceiling, you have to take into account the fact that most prospects -- even top prospects fail. So, Brignac could hit his ceiling, become an average player or fail dismally. Each of those outcomes is common for top prospects. Again, I'm not saying that Brignac for Teahen straight up is necessarily a fair and equal deal, but what is the value of a potential All-Star? Potential is the key word in that sentence.

I just said it wasn't going to happen, because the Rays value Brignac very highly

I'm sure it isn't going to happen. But of course you didn't just say that such a trade wasn't going to happen. You also said Teahen is "just a bench player." He isn't. He's better than that.

I don't think the Royals and Rays match up well for a Teahen trade. The Rays can't afford to give up their genuinely good young major league talent who has shown that they are good, as Teahen has shown that he's good. And I'm sure the Rays can't afford to trade their top prospects for someone who isn't a consistent, fully reliable good player (and Teahen hasn't proven that yet).

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Jan 13, 2008 10:13 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Thank You, that's a fair response

Regarding the reasons he moves around, I feel that most teams don't like to move players who are quite good unless it is very necessary, and I don't understand why he would be seen as a 3B and a 1B with Gordon and Butler there, and a lack of other good options in RF.

And you are right to say that many prospects do fail, but in the same vein, Teahen may not become an above-average corner player. He could(I doubt it, but it is possible) follow an Angel Berroa path and never have a good season again. My comment that he was "just a bench player" was based on the idea that he cannot be counted on to improve just because he is still young and has played well before, and due to inconsistency, it is hard to gauge his real talent level.

I feel I should acknowledge that saying he was "just" a bench player was a poor articulation of my thoughts, seeing as he has the potential to be an above-average player.

I think that your last sentence sums up the differences perfectly.

by raysrule07 on Jan 13, 2008 10:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes

I don't understand why he would be seen as a 3B and a 1B with Gordon and Butler there, and a lack of other good options in RF.

He won't be playing 3B in KC unless Gordon gets injured. But he has trade value as a 3B because he played that position all of his professional career, except for 2007. He might play some 1B because Butler's 1B defense will likely be awful and he'll likely mostly be a DH. So, he might play 1B as the Royals don't have many good 1B options. Also, if Teahen plays a significant number of games at 1B it will be in anticipation of the Royals signing a top tier OF free agent next offseason.

And you are right to say that many prospects do fail, but in the same vein, Teahen may not become an above-average corner player.

He indeed may not, but the big difference between Teahen and a prospect is that Teahen has actually shown this ability in the majors. After his rookie season he had a very, very good season and then an average season. That gives one very good reason to believe he can and will be a player of the quality between those two seasons.

He could(I doubt it, but it is possible) follow an Angel Berroa path and never have a good season again.

That's true, but Berroa's career path as a good rookie season and then he fell off a cliff. Teahen is following a more common career path of a poor rookie season and then improvement.

My comment that he was "just a bench player" was based on the idea that he cannot be counted on to improve just because he is still young and has played well before, and due to inconsistency, it is hard to gauge his real talent level.

It is certainly hard to gauge how good he is. As he is at least an average hitter, I think it is safe to say he's the quality of a MLB regular (above average at some of his positions, below average at others) right now with a likelihood to improve as he approaches his peak years.

Yeah, these two teams aren't in a place where it makes sense for them to try to match up in a Teahen trade. If the Royals think Teahen will improve, then they would be selling low on him, and the Rays can't afford to trade their young talent right now unless it is for a deal which is just right for them.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Jan 13, 2008 10:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

what about the Pirates?

For one of their starting pitchers? Obviously Gorzelany (sp) isn't going anywhere but what about the others?

by gordonrules on Jan 14, 2008 12:40 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Pirates

Snell also isn't going anywhere. Neither Maholm nor Duke are good enough. And, as their top two prospects are an OFer and a 3B, I don't think they are looking for someone like Teahen.

The Royals don't matchup well in a trade for Teahen with other small market teams, because the Royals would need to get another young, cheap, good player in return. And teams like the Pirates and Rays can't really afford to give up young, cheap players.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Jan 14, 2008 1:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs