Moore's Expectations for Teahen and DeJesus

by Eppenweb on Jan 25, 2008 10:55 PM EST Comment 36 comments

From Jeffrey Flanagan in Friday's KC Star, here's Moore's response when asked about Teahen and DeJesus' potential:

""Both of those players really need to emerge, and we fully believe they will," Moore told me. "They both have the potential to be All-Stars.

"David has the most consistent swing on the team. He hangs in there against left-handers. He's an on-base guy. He's a guy we feel could get 200 hits.

"Mark is someone we feel is a 20-homer guy who can score 100 runs in the middle of the lineup. He hit 17 homers in a partial season two years ago. We know he's capable. He also may be the best on the team at getting to his top speed the quickest. He can turn a lot of singles into doubles."

Moore knows that Alex Gordon and Billy Butler are simply too talented not to be great hitters one day. Whether that comes this year or down the road is anyone's guess.

But the time is now for DeJesus and Teahen to have their breakthrough years, which is crucial to the Royals plans.

"I do feel much better about the offense at this time than I did a year ago," Moore said. "We can see the potential for production and scoring if the pieces fall into place.""

So, Royals Reviewers, what do we think? Are Moore's expectations accurate? Optimistic? Which player is more likely to meet them?

Personally, I think his projections are pretty accurate, but I do think Teahen has more potential for any "All-Star" status, simply because I'm not sure how much more time DeJesus has to get better in his prime. But, I'd really like to hear some debate about it.

0 recs | Comment 36 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Thanks, eppenweb

I actually considered posting this, but opted for the payroll post instead. I didn't want to post 2 in 1 day.

I can't help but feel Moore might have overestimated his offense a bit. Maybe I'm wrong. I understand any G.M. should complement his own players to at least build potential value (and to show a courteous gesture), but I'm concerned that he hasn't stockpiled enough offensive depth in our system and on the big-league verge (and club). Not worried....but concerned nonetheless.

20 HR and 100 RBI's from Teahen? I hope any of our players could do that, but peering at his MiLB numbers, I'm just not seeing how it can happen. DeJesus - All Star? That's not out of the realm of possibility, and my guess is Moore would speak highly of any of our players. It just strikes me as weird he would do this two offseasons in a row and - other than signing Guillen, I guess - not really stridently attempt to really improve a gutted Baird-era offense through depth signings, like he has (IMO) with our pitching at all levels.

Re-signing the OBP-plagued Ross Gload for two years + an option? Committing to Pena? Letting Buddy Bell overplay Brown and LaRue over more deserving prospects? I believe pitching works much differently than hitting. With hitters, you can't have a set 9 and then run with it. With small-market, losing franchises, you create competitions. You build depth. You don't have a set 1-9 going into camp, like we apparently seem to have. Not with this lineup. Maybe I'm being too negative.

Too many 'if's'. 'If' things fall into place....I've been hearing that quote for years, from our fans and front office. Unfortunately, things almost never have fallen into place.

Visit my Royals blog: The Royal Treatment!

by Royals Nation on Jan 25, 2008 11:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Teahen coudl twenty home runs

and still be within reasonable expectations. A 20-homer season doesn't necessarily mean you'll slug .500. I think Teahen's good for about a .450 SLG this year. 100 RBIs is dependent on who hits in front of him. DeJesus...I like the guy, but I think 2006 is as good as it gets with him at this point. He's a player who seems like he could benefit from a couple extra days off, what with Gator on the team.

When tells us that they've "committed" to Pena? I see him as a placeholder, a guy who'll be discarded as soon as KC develops a good SS--Moose Tacos, for example--or signs a solid FA. He's not the biggest problem by any means.

As for LaRue...Brown...you got me, but Emil didn't get near his customary PT last year. LaRue was being paid 3 mil and management wouldn't back down and cut him.

The Gload thing really sucks, because I'm almost sure he won't be in the majors beyond the next year and a half or so.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jan 26, 2008 12:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

In all fairness

it was a weak FA class, and other than Andruw Jones, I don't think there was anyone better out there. A trade could have possibly been made, but most likely, we would have to part with someone we really don't want to (Gordon, Butler, Hochevar) in order to get an impact bat. Until our farm system, starts developing on a consistent basis trades will be difficult and FA is really the only option. This next offseason looks a little better for FA's.

by lordbyronk on Jan 26, 2008 10:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

hits? runs?

Why is GMDM using these things to illustrate points?

by royalsreview on Jan 26, 2008 1:29 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Because he's speaking to a mass audience

If he talked about OPS, 80% of Royals fans wouldn't know what he's talking about. If he talked about VORP, 95% of Royals fans wouldn't know what he's talking about. When one is doing PR to a mass audience, one has to speak in a language that can be easily understood.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Jan 26, 2008 2:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly.

Visit my Royals blog: The Royal Treatment!

by Royals Nation on Jan 26, 2008 12:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Man,

I hope it's not as bad as 95%, but then I have nothing to put that in perspective.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jan 26, 2008 1:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think 95% is accurate

For intense baseball fans who frequent blogs like this, the percentage would be lower. But if you were to survey fans at any MLB park, I bet the vast majority would have never heard of VORP and fewer than 5% could give you a roughly accurate very general description of what it is.

The vast majority of fans know about batting average, home runs, rbi and stolen bases and tend to evaluate players by using only those stats.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Jan 26, 2008 5:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

As for DeJesus

I'm starting to worry about upside:

.287/.360/.402
.293/.359/.445
.295/.364/.446
.260/.351/.372

Sure, if he plays a full season and returns to his 2005-6 form, he could get 200 hits. I've seen multiple references to DeJesus wearing down last season/playing through injuries in the second half, when he hit .223/.326/.359. But the thing is, he only hit ..285/.365/.418 in the first half to begin with. And all this during his age 27 season.

I love both these guys, and root for them, but I'm starting to fall on the pessimistic side.

by royalsreview on Jan 26, 2008 1:39 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Teahen and DeJesus

Moore's comments were realistic, but on the optimistic side. When he's talking to a reporter, he's not going to give unvarnished opinions; he's going to give us his best PR schpiel. To do anything else would be extremely unprofessional.

That being said, Teahen and DeJesus are both high OBP guys with some power. DeJesus has good power for a CFer with a good chance to return to something in the .450 SLG area. Teahen has more power potential, which we saw in 2007. I don't see how anyone can think that 20 HR's is unrealistic. He might not hit that, but it is certainly within the realm of reasonable expectations.

DeJesus has already proven himself and I fully expect him to return to the form he showed in 05 and 06. Teahen is more of a question mark, but I expect a 2008 season which is somewhere in between his 2006 and 2007 seasons. None of us really knows how Teahen will turn out and we shouldn't pretend that we know. Comments like "2006 was a fluke" or "2006 was the real deal" are just wild guesses.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Jan 26, 2008 2:16 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

yes, unless you are Tony La Russa

as you say, DDJ and Teabag are actually two distinct problems

no one has any idea what to expect from teahen
dejesus may have peaked and won't be any better

Hillman, you're on notice.

by FireBell on Jan 26, 2008 2:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I just hope

that they both do great next year. Especially Teahen.

royals pix teahen video

by teahen24 on Jan 26, 2008 10:13 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

DDJ and Teahen

Both will have return to form seasons. I think he's optimistic with both, but so am I. DDJ could hit 200 hits at his peak, but that is right about now. I would be happy with 2005-2006 numbers. Teahen is a little more unpredictable, because we don't know what we have in him. He hit an awful lot of doubles last year, and I see no reason not to think some of those will turn into HR once his shoulder is back to full strength. I'd be happy with about 15-20 HR's in a full season provided he gets on base like he did last year. I don't think he belongs hitting third in the lineup, he should probably be a #2 or a #5,6 hitter in our lineup. I am hoping the Royals have a surprise season like Milwakuee did a couple years ago when they finished over .500 for the first time in a long time. I think Teahen and DDJ will be at the center of that in order for it to happen.

by lordbyronk on Jan 26, 2008 10:20 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

ddj needs to start drinking tiger's milk

or andro, or something

he tends to wear down over the season

by FlintHillsRoyal on Jan 26, 2008 2:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

When looking at KC's offense

DeJesus and Teahen are players who have some upside left. They have to improve for the offense to score more runs. CF and RF in the AL are run producing slots. I believe this is especially true for Teahen who has had a good year and a below average year. What is the story?

One gripe I have about the Royals over the past 10 years is that very few of the players seem to improve once they get to the big leagues. Some even regress hence the Mark Quinn/Andy Sisco. Teahan and DeJesus need to take another step toward reaching their full potential I don't think they have peaked yet.

Butler and Gordon are so young they have time to grow into become big leaguers.

by daveyork on Jan 26, 2008 7:28 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

John Buck is another player who could emerge

He has been in the league as long as Teahen. I don't think he'll be an All Star but he has a little more upside. Having Olivo should help the catching position in the lineup.

Grud, Gload, Guillen have enough track record to see consistent numbers. As Denny Green said, "They are who we thought they were." I see Grud declining due to age. Opens more ABs for German or Callaspo.

Looking forward to seeing what Callaspo will do with 300-400 ABs at various positions. Same with Butler in a full season and Gordon in a second year.

Just don't see Pena doing much beyond what he did last year although in a second year he might come around and quit making rookie mistakes. He needs to learn what kind of hitter he is and isn't.

Hate to bring it up but are we scanning candidates for the Mark Quinn award?

by daveyork on Jan 26, 2008 8:53 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

There aren't any

Looking up and down, I don't think there are any candidates.

The Guillen haters will say him, but I don't see it.

by doublestix on Jan 26, 2008 8:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Will Guillen fill the role of RR's leader in rants

I have only followed RR for a year or so but Angel Berroa and Jason LaRue are out of the picture so someone has to be the target of rants and complaints. Someone seems to emerge as the leader in the doghouse.

I will exclude the manager position since it comes with the territory.

by daveyork on Jan 26, 2008 9:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh my god yes

Every strike out, every 0-fer, every comment he makes which could possibly construed as negative will give rise to an anti-Guillen rant. He hasn't had a plate appearance for the Royals yet and already there have been multiple anti-Guillen diaries. Apparently he's already a bust as a Royal as well as a cancer in the clubhouse. For the anti-Guillen crowd, there is no grace period and no chance for him to prove himself. They just want to tear him up.

Good stats will certainly help to quiet some of the criticisms, but even if he manages a .300/.350/.520 line, there will still be comments like:

he strikes out too much
he pulls the ball too much
his defense sucks
he's an asshole and his awful clubhouse presence is probably to blame for Player X's bad hitting
he's not Fukudome
he's good this year but he's going to be awful in 2009 and 2010

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Jan 26, 2008 11:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Indeed

And all those complaints will be a shame, because with .350-.370 OBP guys like Teahen and DeJesus hitting in front of him, pulling the ball "too much" and being an "asshole" with a .520 slg will be something this team has desperately needed for, oh, 15 years or so--a big-league slugger to anchor a big-league offense. Everyone loves to extol the virtues of situational hitting or going to the opposite field, but it's about time we had a power hitter. And strikeouts are the most overrated stat in the game for a hitter. Who cares if you strike out or ground out to second? An out is an out is an out. We may be overpaying for Guillen, but on the other hand, other than Andrew Jones, he was the only guy on the market who might actually hit 30 HR next year.

Sorry for the rant, but you touched a nerve.

As for DeJesus and Teahen, I'm just glad we haven't traded them during the winter. DeJesus had an off-year in 2007, but taking into account the rest of his career, he's still a cheap center fielder who is above average both defensively and offensively. That's a valuable commodity, and we wouldn't have gotten full value in a trade this year. Teahen is offensively talented, defensively versatile, and well worth giving a shot at producing in an improved linup.

GMDM is optimistic about these two, but not without cause. If they collectively hit .285/.360/.460 over the next couple of years, they'll be cheap, good 2nd-fiddlers to the Gordon-Butler-Guillen-Free-agent-of-your-choice core of a 90-win Royals team in 2009.

by Melchizedek on Jan 27, 2008 12:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

We need more rants like that

Thank you. I have my opinions about Guillen. I think he'll do well, but not great. But to write him off in January as a washed up malcontent who got all of his hits out of a syringe is more than a little premature. I think it would be wise to give him until at least the All-Star Break to show how good he is for the Royals. But of course that won't happen. Fans won't even give him until the end of April. Some have made their judgment already.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Jan 27, 2008 2:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

if he hits .300/.350/.520

I will be ecstatic. I'll still think he's an a-hole, but probably won't post anything about it.

by marbotty on Jan 27, 2008 7:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm willing to entertain the possibility that

he's got more a bad rap he deserves, if only because I think that there's a tendency to overreact to a one or two "me first" things done by athletes. I reserve judgment for now.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jan 27, 2008 8:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think it is likely that

...he is both a good player and an asshole. However, we really don't know if his assholishness is the kind of thing which genuinely hurts the team.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Jan 27, 2008 8:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Likely, I'll give you

but unless it's Albert Belle level assholishness, it's hard for me to condemn the guy. I can't help but think there was some stupidity on both sides in the dispute he had with the Angels.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jan 27, 2008 8:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Assholism is common

And no team, particularly a small market team, can limit itself to nice guys and saints. We need the most talent we can get for the money. If that means acquiring some guys like Guillen or Bradley, then so be it.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Jan 27, 2008 8:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I like how you say "nice guys"

and "saints" as if they're the others categories of players. My take:

DeJesus = Nice Guy
Teahen = Saint
Gordon = Smug Asshole
Meche = Nice Guy
Guillen = Self-Serving Asshole
Buck = Saint
Olivo = Nice Guy
Pena = Devil Incarnate

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jan 27, 2008 8:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Wow, really?

I realize there was more than a little hyperbole there, but are those your general feelings about those players? I've never seen anything from Gordon that looked like a bad attitude. And is a great fielding SS with a sub-.700 OPS really the devil incarnate? Pena does not equal Berroa.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Jan 27, 2008 8:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Bah, 'tis a joke

I was playing off the idea that categorizing guys as assholes or nice guys is a bit overrated anyway. I don't dislike any player on the above list. Pena is, indeed, better than Berroa. I'm pretty sure you're better than Berroa too, but TP ain't the biggest problem by any measure.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jan 27, 2008 8:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

My dichotomy was hyperbole

There is a large middle ground between the assholes/malcontents and the nice guys/saints. But no team can afford to avoid all assholes/malcontents. This is a professional sports team, not a glee club.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Jan 27, 2008 9:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Naturally,

agreed on both points...which is a little disconcerting.

Could we find something to argue about, so I'll feel less uneasy?

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jan 27, 2008 9:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm arguing with you a lot less nowadays

I tend to be arguing/debating with JQ and Marbotty most this offseason. I'm not sure that you're even in my top 5 most disagreed with list. You could easily get back on the list if you wrote some diaries talking about how fluky Bannister's 2007 season was, how awful Moore's offseason moves were or how the Meche signing will eventually prove itself to be awful/stupid.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Jan 27, 2008 9:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'll take that under advisement.

I think maybe our lack of disagreement has something to do with the sabernomics blog that you're such a big fan of, which I've liked for a long time.

Bannister is an interesting subject, one that I might need to throw my weight around on before the season starts. I suppose a "review of the off-season " article would be good, though I'm definitely not one to call this anything close to awful.

Does ANYONE really think the Meche contract was bad, now? I mean, the only plausible arguments against it at this point seem to be:

He's not a "true ace" - whatever that means
Buddy Bell may have gooshed his arm

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jan 27, 2008 9:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Meche

There is one prolific and fairly articulate poster on the ESPN.com Royals message board who still thinks that the Meche contract was bad largely because the Royals shouldn't have started spending big money on free agents until the minors had been rebuilt and the team was on the verge of contending with mostly home grown talent. Of course the problems with that is that we could wait forever for homegrown talent to get us close to contention and it's not like you can get all the FA's you want when you're finally "ready." You have to get good FA's as you find them each year and hopefully sign them long-term.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Jan 27, 2008 9:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs