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Around SBN: Please, Someone Make Bob Sapp Stop Already

RR Electoral College

Yes, we have to divide up our time like that, between our politics and our equations. But to me our equations are far more important, for politics are only a matter of present concern. A mathematical equation stands forever.

- Albert Einstein

Its offseason, so there is a lot of off topic mumbo jumbo to discuss and nothing is more prevalent than the proliferation of our democracy.  I get the feeling there are a lot of contributors who consider themselves political - in addition to baseball - junkies.  So, just for fun, how about a poll?  (She did NOT say that!!)

Poll
Who will you vote for in the Presidential Election?
Democratic - Obama / Biden
72 votes
Green - McKinney / Clemente
0 votes
Independent Nominations - Nader /Gonzalez
1 votes
Libertarian - Barr / Root
3 votes
Reform - Baldwin / Castle
2 votes
Republican - McCain / Palin
46 votes
Other
4 votes
Undecided
1 votes
Will not vote
4 votes

133 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 145 comments  |  1 recs  | 

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LYNDON LAROUCHE!!!

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 28, 2008 10:56 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

i stumbled into a larouche rally/talk thing once

it was in a hotel ballroom when i was staying at the hotel (no really)

it was insane

by Freneau on Oct 28, 2008 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

I had a bunch protest outside our office window

Not at us, but at the courthouse across the street. I have no idea what they were protesting (I suppose getting on the ballot?) but yea, they have a weird conspiratorial vibe about them.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 28, 2008 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

i'm sure cheney was involved

If you have liked three hours, you should really read this, which about one of his lifetime staffers committing suicide and the weird world of larouchedom:

http://www2.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2007/0711.klein.html

or forty years, the Lyndon LaRouche movement has been a ubiquitous, if diminishing, presence in the political landscape of America, and of Washington. LaRouche has made eight runs for the presidency, including one campaign from prison. At D.C. press conferences and think tank events, a reporter for a LaRouche publication called Executive Intelligence Review can often be heard asking strange questions about the grain cartel. Young, malnourished LaRouche acolytes frequently stop Hill staffers on their way home from work and hand them pamphlets with titillating titles like “Children of Satan” or “The Gore of Babylon.” A peek inside offers details on LaRouche’s many enemies, such as the “Conrad Black–backed McCain–Lieberman–Donna Brazile cabal.”

by Freneau on Oct 28, 2008 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why is the Green party ticket not in the poll?

Not trying to ruffle feathers, I just figure if you’re including Barr, Baldwin, and Nader, then McKinney should probably be included too.

by DarthYoshi on Oct 28, 2008 11:44 AM EDT reply actions  

Sorry about that...They have been added.

I went from a sample Kansas ballot, which the GP is not on.

We always did feel the same, We just saw it from a different point of view, Tangled up in blue.
-Bob Dylan

by Royal Kingdom on Oct 28, 2008 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

We have come a long way as country

We are probably more tolerant of differences than at any other time in our history.

But, I don’t think we are ready for a guy with a mustache to be president!

We always did feel the same, We just saw it from a different point of view, Tangled up in blue.
-Bob Dylan

by Royal Kingdom on Oct 28, 2008 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I sense his

Conversion to libertarianism to be politically expedient. He certainly wasn’t exactly a “small government, civil liberties” kinda guy when he was a Republican Congressman leading the drug wars.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 28, 2008 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

very Burt Reynolds-in-Boogie Nights-esque

that’s a good thing

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Oct 28, 2008 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

that's what she said!

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Oct 28, 2008 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Barr: libertarianism::

Hollywood liberals: pretending to give a shit about the rest of us

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Oct 28, 2008 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is switching to a third party ever politically expedient?

I don’t mean that to be snarky, but what does his move to th Libertarian Party get him? It got him that party’s nomination for president, but to what end? I think you or I could get a third party’s nomination for president. I don’t think that even looks good on a resume.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Oct 28, 2008 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

unless the next step is forming a cult

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Oct 28, 2008 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Oct 28, 2008 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

na na na na na na na na na na na na . . . . . LEADER

Mr. Weatherstone

by Mr. Weatherstone on Oct 28, 2008 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

You get

Much more publicity being the nominee of a fringe party than you do being 10th in the polls of a major political party.

Who has done more interviews on TV in the past year – Duncan Hunter or Bob Barr?

I guess “politically expedient” isn’t the right term, how bout “economically expedient” or “starved for attention expedient”

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 28, 2008 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

That makes sense

I don’t know if he could spin this publicity into future electoral success as a Republican, but perhaps. And of course this might not be his goal at all. Maybe he just wanted some more attention. If so, that’s sad.

In an unrelated note, due to the popularity of “(first name) the (occupation)” I’m considering legally changing my name to “Scott the Lawyer”. I’d actually prefer “Scott the Stathead” but that just doesn’t have the right blue collar, of-the-people feel to it. I guess Scott the Lawyer doesn’t either. It’s quite a quandry.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Oct 28, 2008 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Scott the Lawhead

beats “Scott the Statyer”

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Oct 28, 2008 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I really like Scott the Statyer

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Oct 28, 2008 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm guessing he has a book to sell

Its all about moving merchandise!

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 28, 2008 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

How about Lionel Hutz?

We always did feel the same, We just saw it from a different point of view, Tangled up in blue.
-Bob Dylan

by Royal Kingdom on Oct 28, 2008 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Now that has a nice ring to it

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Oct 28, 2008 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

how about Joe the Lawyer

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Oct 28, 2008 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

If this is RR Electoral College

Shouldn’t we bit split into geographical districts, of which only a third matter, with the popular vote being meaningless?

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 28, 2008 3:12 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

My vote in New York is a purely symbolic act

But the fun part is I get to use a voting machine from 1895. Wouldn’t it be fun if this country took elections and counting votes seriously?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Oct 28, 2008 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

We are just one geographical region

on the map of SB Nation…I believe if post/comment quantity is the measure, we should have a good deal of electoral votes.

We always did feel the same, We just saw it from a different point of view, Tangled up in blue.
-Bob Dylan

by Royal Kingdom on Oct 28, 2008 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Royal Nation, baby

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Oct 28, 2008 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

I want to hear...

Obama supporters … Why?

McCain supporters … Why?

GP supporters … Why?

Any other … Why?

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Oct 28, 2008 3:24 PM EDT reply actions  

I'm voting for Obama

Primarily because I’m a socialist who hates America. But I also like that he pals around with terrorists.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 28, 2008 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

He also has no executive experience...just like that other guy

from Illinois from back in the 1860’s

We always did feel the same, We just saw it from a different point of view, Tangled up in blue.
-Bob Dylan

by Royal Kingdom on Oct 28, 2008 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Or for that matter

John McCain. I saw the RNC run an ad last week that charged “Obama has no executive experience” and “has never faced a crisis in the Oval Office” which left me wondering – did the RNC realize who their party nominated as President?

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 28, 2008 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

i saw that and laughed.

sort of hypocritical…

Don't Stop Believing!

by KC Chris on Oct 28, 2008 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sarah Palin has executive experience

That tells you all you need to know about the importance of executive experience.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Oct 28, 2008 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yeah...but McCain is old.

We always did feel the same, We just saw it from a different point of view, Tangled up in blue.
-Bob Dylan

by Royal Kingdom on Oct 28, 2008 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hhmmm...

doesn’t the country have to elect a president at least every 8 years that doesn’t have crisis-experience in the Oval Office?

I any case, I don’t see this thread going anywhere good. I’m not afraid to reveal my true political sympthaties, although my contrarian nature makes them difficult to discern.

Let’s just say I’m not comfortable pledging allegiance to any flag, no matter how many stars, stripes, and tiny pictures of Che Guevera it has on it.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Oct 28, 2008 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Experience

No one running for president (except for incumbents) has presidential experience. U.S. senators and representatives have experience dealing with the national and international issues that a president will have to deal with. Governors have experience running a large, complicated governmental entity and dealing with a legislature and judiciary in the way a president does. So gubernatorial and national legislative experience both help to prepare someone somewhat for being a president. Any argument that all that really counts is executive experience or legislative experience is pure sophistry, and usually just a campaign argument to say “My candidate is best because he/she has _________ experience.”

In short, I don’t think anyone is really prepared to be president. Executive experience helps. Being knowledgeable on a wide variety of relevant issues helps. But personally, I don’t care much about a candidate’s resume. I want him/her to be an intelligent, agile thinker with good ideas and a good policy making process, period.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Oct 28, 2008 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Martin Sheen has presidential experience

So does Dennis Haysbert.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 28, 2008 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Monica L. has presidential "experience"

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Oct 28, 2008 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

There's an election coming up?

Why hasn’t the media reported on this????

by Top Ramen on Oct 28, 2008 3:50 PM EDT reply actions  

I'm voting for Obama, but my vote doesn't count being from Kansas...

Is anyone concerned about having an all Democrat government?

Don't Stop Believing!

by KC Chris on Oct 28, 2008 4:03 PM EDT reply actions  

I'm sure some people are

Democrats, not so much.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Oct 28, 2008 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Divided government is always better

I consider myself to be a libertarian, but this year I will cast a vote for McCain based on the fact that an all-liberal or all-conservative government is never good for this country (see the 1960’s welfare society or the Carter administration). But, let’s be honest. Both parties have been pissing on the constitution for about 20 years now. Where have you gone Harry Truman? Teddy Roosevelt? Bobby Kennedy? Socialism or a grumpy old war hero ? That’s our choice? How far the mighty have fallen.

Yes, I'm still alive. Sorry to disappoint you.

by royaldaddy on Oct 30, 2008 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Paulo Orlando

I hear he will make Carnivale a national holiday.

by Gopherballs on Oct 28, 2008 7:07 PM EDT reply actions  

That's a platform I can get behind

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Oct 28, 2008 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Now that is the kind of post i was looking for...

…is that you, Bill Maher?

I actually enjoy Bill a lot and watch him whenever I can…the only issue I have with him is he is a little over the top on the religion thing. If you haven’t seen him, he is also athiest, but is very condescending toward religion, which I find a little too much. I do agree 100% that religion should be kept out of politics, but the vast majority of people in the world believe in some sort of religion, so it should be at least treated with a little respect.

We always did feel the same, We just saw it from a different point of view, Tangled up in blue.
-Bob Dylan

by Royal Kingdom on Oct 28, 2008 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

can I use the word little a little more?

We always did feel the same, We just saw it from a different point of view, Tangled up in blue.
-Bob Dylan

by Royal Kingdom on Oct 28, 2008 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Religion + politics = nightmare? It can be, but isn't inherently so

I am voting for Obama. I voted for him in the primaries and knew that I would be voting for him ever since he won the Democratic nomination.

I am also a devout Christian (surprise, surprise). My faith has grown as I have likewise grown as a person. Singing “Jesus Loves Me,” while nice and cutesy, doesn’t cut it for me like it did in kindergarten. But my faith has also been formative in offering to me the chance to form a moral compass and a system of values. Could I have achieved this without the assistance of organized religion? Sure. But just as many of us allow other thinkers and leaders to influence our views, so too do religious people allow the founders and leaders of our faiths to influence us, our views, and our politics. Being a Christian is so fundamental to my identity that I don’t know how to divorce myself from it, even momentarily, in order to engage in my capacity as a citizen to vote. In short—allowing religion to influence your vote is, functionally, not a whole lot different than allowing the writings of a secular figure to influence our views. The same basic concept is the same, at least when it comes to voting.

To be clear, I am not defending the idea that pastors should endorse candidates from the pulpit or anything like that. Nor does it really bother me if your religion (or absence thereof) isn’t my religion. What I am saying is that I have allowed Jesus’s teachings on nonviolence, inclusion, and the empowerment of the marginalized to inform who I am as a person and, by extension, how I, as a person, might vote. And I don’t think there is anything wrong with that per se. It is when people use religion as a justification for acts outside of the ballot box, like harrassment, violence, or intimidation that I would object to.

by DarthYoshi on Oct 28, 2008 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Darth...

You are the good type of religious person (let me qualify that before you jump to assumptions on my meaning)!

“Nor does it really bother me if your religion (or absence thereof) isn’t my religion. What I am saying is that I have allowed Jesus’s teachings on nonviolence, inclusion, and the empowerment of the marginalized to inform who I am as a person and, by extension, how I, as a person, might vote”

If every religious person held these particular set of beliefs the world would be a MUCH, MUCH better place. The sheer fact that we are in 2 wars, both STARTED solely on the basis of religion (and prolongued by us due at least partially by natural resources, I have to throw that in) in the 21st century is absolutely asinine.

I know I can come off as condescending when I speak from my Athiest pulpit, I don’t mean to put down anyone’s faith, but I get a little sick of defending myself from the stereotypes…About 3 months ago, a Jehovas Witness came to my door. He started talking and I politely interrupted him and said, “I think you are barking up the wrong tree here, I’m athiest (He took 2 steps backwards and looked like I just channeled Linda Blair) but have a nice day.” A few months before that, people that are members of the Church near my house were door to dooring it & stumbled across my door. I told them the same thing, and I got 3, “I’ll pray for you tonights,” like I was a leper or something. I am about as moral of a person as you’ll find.

In addition to your comment that pastors shouldn’t endorse religion…I was FUMING mad last month at a sales meeting in my company. We’ve NEVER had any sort of ‘remember 9-11 tribute in our September sales meeting. Sure as shit, 2 months before the election (at a sales meeting held on the LAST Friday in September) we get a 4 minute video remembrance of 9-11. Tell me that didn’t get handed down from corporate hoping to pound that little fear from the backs of everyones mind to the front 6 weeks before the election. At our sales meeting last weekend, the President of a company that we just purchased brought up the election no less that 5 times in a 30 minute address. He didn’t say anything specific, but he kept bringing it up, saying how much our vote was needed, and it ’doesn’t look good.’ THAT is bull shit. If the economy wasn’t in the toilet, I would have walked out right then.

The only thing that scares me about an Obama presidency is the HUGE potential for nut-jobs like the 2 that were just arrested in Tennessee to succeed. That would rip this country in two again, 40 years after it started being put back together. There is a video floating around the web of a reporter asking small town folk about Obama at a McCain rally. It is fucking disgusting. They STILL think he is a Muslim. One lady said, “I’m afraid the blacks will take over.” A kid from this small town was for Obama, and he was holding Obama signs along the road as people were leaving. This is a small town where everybody knows everybody mind you, and they were yelling HORRIBLE things (n****** lover, etc) at this guy. Beliefs like that are being perpetuated if not ENCOURAGED by McCain & especially Palin with her “Real America” crap.

by GoBabies!! on Oct 29, 2008 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Bill Maher

Is brilliant. I agree, he can be a little mean when it comes to religion, but I think it is probably borne from 50+ years of feeling the need to be defensive about his beliefs. I do steal the ‘talking snakes’ line from him, I must admit ;)

HE is what the Democratic party needs to revert back to, at least partially. Not so cynical or anything, but he is a ‘true’ democrat. Tax whatever you want, just leave my civil liberties alone and make sure the government is there BEFORE the shit hits the fan. Let me smoke my joint, and not bother anyone. Thats the world I want to live in (even though I rarely smoke anymore).

by GoBabies!! on Oct 29, 2008 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

Did you ask him why he hasn't done anything good since DC Cab?

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Oct 29, 2008 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

my friends insisted we go talk to him

but then after we said “hi” and shook hands I killed it, even though my peeps wanted to do a round with him

by Freneau on Oct 29, 2008 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Busey was better

“I don’t work on January 8th…‘cause that’s Elvis’ birthday.”

Sometimes you just gotta roll the potato.

by CentralChamps2009 on Oct 30, 2008 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

"Tell them you're Batman"

Of course Busey and T carried the movie… I didn’t say Maher was good in it, he was nothing. Still the best thing he’ll ever be part of.

Gary Busey is a God.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Oct 30, 2008 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

"dating"

i love it

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Oct 29, 2008 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm really trying to stay out of this

but I’ll just say, at the risk of coming off wrong, that the phrase

“the good type of religious person”

is way too reminiscent of another “good type” in the past, and really says something about the ironic similarity of BIll Maher and those whom he despises.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Oct 29, 2008 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

I qualified it

I know it was an UN-PC way to say it, but it was late, and I think my point was made

by GoBabies!! on Oct 29, 2008 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think it was pretty clear

that he just meant the open-minded, non-judging type.

Royals, NBA, Golden Hurricane, Hawkeyes, Chiefs, and KU basketball, in that order.

by Rowyal on Oct 29, 2008 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Continuing the dialog.

I hate it when people say, "I’m not trying to influence you, but. . ." because it’s not true. So, I’m not going to say that. However, I’m not going to get into a fit if you disagree. Anyway:

I have a problem when people say that religion should stay out of politics. —PEACE!— I agree that one religion cannot be in charge of our government. But, as DarthYoshi intimated, you cannot ask people not follow their religious beliefs.

In Bush’s second campaign, a friend of mine (an atheist) went off on a rant which made a lot of sense, but he included having problems with "moral issues" being important in a presidential election. He basically said that the government has no right to decide whether these "moral issues" should be legal or not. This is what I think many people mean when they say religion should stay out of politics. But it seems to me that the basis of government is to protect people from each other. Likewise, morality is meant to protect people from their own bad decisions and to protect anyone else involved. And, thus, many laws stem from some kind of moral issue: Theft/Robbery, Assault, Vandalism, Murder, Rape, etc. Prohibiting these actions are pretty obvious to most people; it’s when we get into more complex issues that things get a little more vague.

If you’d rather call it "ethical issues," I have no problem with that, but it seems ludicrous to ask that such issues be left out of the hands of the government when it seems to be the fundamental basis for government.

by BrRoyal on Oct 29, 2008 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

No

When i say religion should stay out of Politics, I mean that Palin shouldn’ be able to say things like…

“Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending [U.S. soldiers] out on a task that is from God,” she exhorted the congregants. “That’s what we have to make sure that we’re praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God’s plan.”

Really?

The basis of this COUNTRY -well one of them, is freedom of religion. Our constitution clearly states ‘seperation of church and state’. Now state doesn’t = politics (I guess it could in a loose definition), but when the people that are running for office are basing a large part of their platform on their religious beliefs, that crosses the line in my opinion.

“But it seems to me that the basis of government is to protect people from each other.”

So, the whole battle in this country against rights for gays and abortion is just to protect people from eachother? Abortion is a grey area. I’m pro-choice (And Obama stated it eloquently when he said pro-choice does NOT mean Pro-Abortion, nobody LIKES abortion, but it is a family decision, not a government decision). The fact that the Right is Pro-Life, yet un-willing to educate Americas youth on sexuality is another big contradiction in my mind, and it is cleary only there b/c the church is anti-birth control (some church’s at least).

Yet the same Right that is trying like hell to protect us from all the gays & Abortion doctors, is un-willing to discuss any significant form of gun-control? THAT is THE contradiction in my mind…

by GoBabies!! on Oct 29, 2008 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

just change some words around and this would sound almost exactly like my in-laws from around Hutchinson…

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Oct 29, 2008 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Then I guess I'm having a hard time not seeing a double standard

I think Sarah Palin has every right to base her platform on whatever the hell she wants. It may disgust me, but ultimately, the buck stops with us in the voting booth. W. may have convinced himself that he is an instrument of God in the epic battle of good versus evil or what have you, but we are the fools who elected him (at least in 2004).

Or, let’s put this another way—a lot of my fellow progressive Christians have said that McCain’s pick of Sarah Palin speaks volumes about his judgment or lack thereof. I think our re-election of George W. Bush in 2004 says the same about us, the American electorate.

Every day during this election cycle, I wished that my more conservative brothers and sisters would open themselves up to the Jesus’s message of peace and tolerance. But if I am going to base my values and, by extension, my policy views, off of the Bible, then I would be the world’s biggest hypocrite to say that other Christians should not do what I have done in looking to the Bible to guide me (granted, I think we look at different parts of the Bible…and interpret them quite differently…but you get the idea).

I am sorry that you have had such experiences with other religious folks who act as though they possess some sort of moral superiority over you. Many of my agnostic and atheist friends have felt wounded by organized religion, and some of them have come to me and asked why my religion sees the need to treat people the way some of us do. Since I do not identify as an evangelical Christian, I can’t speak for them, or for the contradictions that I likewise see in their politics and religious views. But religion is a complex issue, and applying a black-and-white lens does little good, even though such moral clarity is understandably comforting to many people. But if we could create an atmosphere that eases the moral defensiveness that situations like evangelism sometimes are conducive towards, I think a more productive dialogue could occur almost instantaneously. It wouldn’t necessarily be easy, or simple, but the world would not end, and we will probably be better off for having done so.

by DarthYoshi on Oct 29, 2008 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

more dialog

I do not take Sarah Palin as a prophet. I don’t believe this war is just. So, I agree on the first part. As for the rest:

The struggle over abortion is to protect people: the unborn children who have no ability to fight for themselves. Sadly, the abortion issue has become a matter of semantics, which will never lead to a resolution. I have trouble understanding how someone can believe in their heart that an unborn child isn’t really a living being but I don’t expect to change their minds, either. That is where the abortion arguement lies: if you believe it’s a human being, it must be murder; if you believe it’s an unnecessary piece of flesh, you can see it as a choice. As far as sexual education goes, I attended Catholic school for eight years, received an education of not only what the Church teaches but about the reality in the world today. I’d like to think I have a good understanding about sexuality and believe that it’s important that children be brought up with such an understanding. However, I do think it’s important for such things to be addressed primarily by parents in a personal setting because that’s how the young really get their values. Both are important, though I don’t think handing out condoms at school qualifies as sexual education.

As for gay rights, the people who oppress them believe that they are protecting people. They see gays as a threat and want to hold it back. To be honest, I’ve never really given much thought to the legal aspect of marriage. Being brought up Catholic, and as a monk, marriage seems to fit into the context of religion. But we can’t take marriage out of the hands of the government because of taxes and such. Perhaps the government is trying to protect people from themselves and prevent them from being in such a union, but that obviously is not going to work.

Gotta stop typing.

by BrRoyal on Oct 29, 2008 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

I view Abortion as a valid choice in many instances, some of which are not health related. If a person in poverty is pregnant, and is unable to provide for a child, they should have the choice. Some people realize that they aren’t emotionally ready to support a child, even if their financially sound to.

I agree that it would be a ‘better’ choice to have the kid and give it up for adoption…..sort of…….I’m also a big believer that the world is becoming VASTLY over-populated, and we aren’t exactly needeing to procreate for the sake of the species at this point.

On the gay issue, I just don’t get that argument Br…What exactly are they protecting us straights from? The ONLY thing I can thihnk of is that ‘uncomfortable’ feeling you get when you see a couple of dudes making out (I for one get a much more comfortable feeling when 2 chicks are making out). I hear the arguement alot…“What am I supposed to tell my kids?” I dunno, how about the truth!!!! that some people are drawn to people of the same sex. PERIOD. You could even add on to the end of it saying something like, I personally don’t approve of their behavior, but it is their individual right to live their life the way they see fit.

It’s not like gay people are trying to outlaw hetrosexuality or anything?!

by GoBabies!! on Oct 29, 2008 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

ugh, I just realized I used their wrong, that is a BIG pet peave of mine, I can’t believe I did that!

by GoBabies!! on Oct 29, 2008 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

The gay issue

I neither support nor defend the right wing on gay issues. I do not support any gay union, but I really can’t see any legal reason to outlaw it. ehhh, I don’t think I have to say anything else there. Actually, I’m kind of surprised I even said that. But, logically, I cannot think of a single valid reason for the government to care about this issue.

by BrRoyal on Oct 29, 2008 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

yea but don't you feel better?

Maybe not, but that again, is a very good quality you just portrayed there, and that is the ability to differentiate your beliefs from policy. Your life wouldn’t be effected at all if every gay person in America got married tomorrow.

It’s like the old thing that says, “I may not agree with what you say but I’ll defend to the death your right to say it.” We’ve lost that as a majority, it’s good to see that it isn’t totally dead.

by GoBabies!! on Oct 29, 2008 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, that might be too strong

I can’t say that I wouldn’t be affected by it in some way. A friend of mine might move back to the States from Japan if that were the case. He moved there partially because he feels so much hostility toward gays (plus he loves the Japanese culture). As things are going, I may never actually see that friend again. But, in all likelihood, gay marriage probably would not affect me much, especially in a monastery.

by BrRoyal on Oct 29, 2008 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

You've touched on the fringes of what I believe

I consider myself to be conservative on fiscal issues, but very liberal on social/moral issues.

It’s because of the first issue that I often think some democrats go too far with monetary social programs, and it’s because of the second issue that I often think most republicans want to control everybody’s behavior in ways that border on violating the constitution.

In short, NEITHER party has EVER produced a candidate that was suitable to my views, so I just don’t vote.

Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!

by loyal2sdad on Oct 29, 2008 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Man after my own heart...

“I consider myself to be conservative on fiscal issues, but very liberal on social/moral issues.”

I’ve used that EXACT phrase several times.

by GoBabies!! on Oct 30, 2008 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

What We Do

With the poor is the measure of our civility. Do we feed them, defend ourselves from them, or pre-emptively kill them. It’s pretty basic.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Nov 1, 2008 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

+1 and rec'd

Voting is important. You should do it. The end.

by DarthYoshi on Oct 28, 2008 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh definitely

I mentioned I was voting for Obama but my vote didn’t count because I live in Kansas. I’m still voting. I figure that you don’t have any right to complain if you don’t vote. Well, I guess our great country still grants you that right, but I don’t want to hear it if you didn’t try to do anything about it!

Don't Stop Believing!

by KC Chris on Oct 29, 2008 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

my vote in DC is pushing the boudaries or pointless

especially since there is no congressional candidates to vote for

taxation without representation!

by Freneau on Oct 29, 2008 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

All Politics Is

Local.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Nov 1, 2008 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

voting=overrated

Accidentally not thedude925 anymore. I do hate this new name.

by wildthang on Oct 29, 2008 1:43 AM EDT reply actions  

I sense a pattern here

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Oct 29, 2008 2:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

yeah

I don’t feel like thinking about things to much right now.

Accidentally not thedude925 anymore. I do hate this new name.

by wildthang on Oct 29, 2008 3:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

overrated = overused

We always did feel the same, We just saw it from a different point of view, Tangled up in blue.
-Bob Dylan

by Royal Kingdom on Oct 29, 2008 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

P. Diddy

Is going to kill you

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 29, 2008 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

How many votes does RR get in the college?

And do we break them up proportionally?

Kansas City Royals: your 2006 and 2007 NL Central champions!

by mazoboom on Oct 29, 2008 10:52 AM EDT reply actions  

2 votes to overall winner

2 votes by congressional district

by Freneau on Oct 29, 2008 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow

We’re more powerful than Delaware.

Kansas City Royals: your 2006 and 2007 NL Central champions!

by mazoboom on Oct 29, 2008 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

I just don't understand why the country has to be so divided

The parties are becoming more and more polarized in reaction to each other. I had no love for George W. before the first election and certainly not in his second. At the same time, I had no desire to have John Carrey as my president either. Much the same today: I don’t like either candidate. What’s wrong with moderation?

by BrRoyal on Oct 29, 2008 2:02 PM EDT reply actions  

I don't think we are that polarized

But the media focuses attention on the rabid extremes of both parties, and those that are most “active” in both parties tend to be extremists. Most people are pretty moderate or share some viewpoints from both the left and right.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 29, 2008 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Republican party, recently, has shown tendencies of being far more extreme than Democrats

Words like ‘Facism’ and ‘Nazi’ to describe Hitler haven’t been used by prominent politicians like ‘Marxist’, ‘Communist’, ‘Fidel Castro’ and ‘terrorist’ have been thrown around among ‘mainstream’ (numerically speaking) Republicans. And among the people and followers of this party…..believe me, I have seen them. Very few of these people are college-educated, and very few of them live in major cities, and very many of these people insinuate direct racism and homophobia within these e-mails. This racism and homophobia, in my opinion, has run rampant throughout the Republican party. Such thoughts should be taboo within our society. Sadly, they are not within certain sects.

I can’t wait to vote for Obama on November 4. In fact, I’m considering voting early. We need to throw neo-Con ideologues who pander to the lowest common denominator and insinuate feeble-mindedness out of Congress and the White House. If anyone wants to argue that Republicans really feed to these specific groups, by all means, we can argue (off the website, of course). However, to argue this such as anti-intellectualism itself is rather silly. The Republicans have shown why they have endured a bloodbath in 2006, and why they are going to endure another overwhelming bloodbath in six days.

by Royals Nation on Oct 29, 2008 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pardon....first paragraph:

Describe Hitler and his comparisons to Bush (among the left)

And I meant to write “I have seen them” as in I have seen e-mails that have been circulated among Republicans and conservatives.

by Royals Nation on Oct 29, 2008 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

I assume this is meant ironically

brilliant

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Oct 29, 2008 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

For some reason

This reminds me of Kodos’ pre-election speech:

“I too am looking forward to an orderly election which will eliminate the need for a violent bloodbath.”

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 29, 2008 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am Clin-Ton

End Transmission

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Oct 29, 2008 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

If you're a moderate you're selling out!!!!!11111

you’re giving a foot in the door for those who hate America/religious fanatics!!! Can’t you see!

+1 to Retro. Maher, O’Reilly, Limbaugh, Moore, Coulter, Falwell, Sharpton, et. al. can all go screw themselves.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Oct 29, 2008 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well yea

It’s all about ratings!!!! Someone saying, “I see where the right is coming from, on the gun control issue, but I disagree. I also see where the left is coming from on the gay rights issue, but I think this is more appropriate,” wouldn’t draw any viewers(as sick and disgusting as that is).

by GoBabies!! on Oct 29, 2008 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I understand the media

But can the parties not find candidates that aren’t so polarizing? I think a moderate candidate would be much more popular, though (s)he would have a harder time getting the funds. It’s the extremists who seem to get the most funding.

In other news, I got a B+ on my Greek midterm!

by BrRoyal on Oct 29, 2008 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

You really think the candidates are polarizing?

I find them both to be quite moderate – both have rejected quite a bit of extremist orthodoxy by their parties. Don’t believe all the ads that scare you into thinking Obama is a terrorist socialist and McCain is another Bush.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 29, 2008 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

no McCain fan here (how do I keep letting myself get dragged into these things)

but arguably he’s been hurt by his social/moral liberalism — doesn’t get the solid right-wing base out there. So he nominated Palin as a way to appeal to both soccer moms and fundies, and did neither.

Still, I remember in the aftermath of the 2000 election, there being speculation that he would switch parties. Disengage him from GOP-based special interests, and he’s not that far off from being a Clinton democrat (however one thinks of that).

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Oct 29, 2008 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm a pretty loyal Democrat

But prior to this election, I held McCain in esteem as one of the more moderate, nuanced Senators. I could even imagine a few scenarios where if the Dems nominated someone awful, I could vote for him. That was before he ran an awful campaign though.

As for Obama, there’s a reason why he’s gained the endorsement of several conservatives – Colin Powell, William Weld, Charles Fried, Francis Fukayama, Lincoln Chafee, Jim Leach and Christopher Buckley.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 29, 2008 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I too

had a lot of respect for McCain, and thought that he had a good shot at beating wither Hillary or Obama……..

Then Palin came along, which was only magnified by the terrible campaign McCain had ran pre & post Palin.

by GoBabies!! on Oct 29, 2008 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have to agree with Retro that neither candidate is extreme or polarizing

But there are loud, well organized voices on the left and right who work hard to polarize. They villify basically everything the other guy does. They have no interest in anything reasonable or moderate.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Oct 29, 2008 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Wait, are we still talking politics?

or are you talking about baseball analysis?

We always did feel the same, We just saw it from a different point of view, Tangled up in blue.
-Bob Dylan

by Royal Kingdom on Oct 29, 2008 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Interesting

What would represent the “left” and “right” of baseball analysis?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Oct 29, 2008 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

What, or who?

Maybe as a beginning

Far Left: Tango/MGL/rest of independent blogosphere
Liberal: Baseball Prospectus
Conservative: Buster Olney
Far Right: Murray Chass, John Heyman, etc.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Oct 29, 2008 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Does this mean Joe Morgan = Hitler?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Oct 29, 2008 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

That would be funny

but I think ‘Far Right’ is enough. GUys like Murray Chass and Heyman are just as bad as Morgan.

Not to stick up for Morgan, but at least he was, you know, one of the greatest baseball players of all time (which, as everyone knows, is ironic because if it wasn’t for people like Bill James, it’s unlikely that people would know just how awesome Morgan was)

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Oct 29, 2008 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

That's an excellent point

Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!

by loyal2sdad on Oct 29, 2008 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Morgan = Reagan

simple solutions to complex problems
wildly popular
sounds better than he thinks

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Oct 29, 2008 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't have enough information

What are the projections for both McCain and Obama? I need Baseball Prospectus to break it down for me, complete with VORP (Value Over Replacement President).

by cookierojas73 on Oct 29, 2008 9:05 PM EDT reply actions  

had ideas for lots of jokes here

but they all pretty much went over the line

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Oct 29, 2008 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually

You can go to www.fivethirtyeight.com It is ran by Nate Silver. A statistician that came up with several statistics that baseball prospectus paid him for. He is running a pretty much ground breaking site that analyzes TONS of data to run projections on the election…

by GoBabies!! on Oct 30, 2008 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

yup

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Oct 30, 2008 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

they would definitely both be positive VORP's

the tree stump in my yard would also have a positive VORP

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Oct 29, 2008 10:27 PM EDT reply actions  

Can We Discuss

Politics now?

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Nov 1, 2008 12:52 AM EDT reply actions  

We got through this one without things blowing up and turning really ugly

But I don’t think we should push our luck. IMO, perhaps an election night open thread, but then avoid it after that.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Nov 1, 2008 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

+1

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Nov 1, 2008 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree...

Like the movie Major League….don’t celebrate in front of guys that just died…

by GoBabies!! on Nov 1, 2008 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

unless my “team” wins

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Nov 1, 2008 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am sick and tired of your anti-Whig rhetoric

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Nov 1, 2008 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

F them, they're anti-American

I’ll be polite to a lot of people (if forced to), but I cannot hide my contempt for and hatred of those F’ing Whigs.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Nov 1, 2008 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Zack Taylor Is

Dead to me.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Nov 1, 2008 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

UNDEAD PRESIDENTS NOW

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Nov 1, 2008 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

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