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Royals Acquire Mike Jacobs for Some Reason

Royalsreview_tiny by royalsreview on in News Comment 446 comments

It was inescapable:

KANSAS CITY -- The Royals acquired power-hitting first baseman Mike Jacobs from the Florida Marlins on Thursday for right-handed reliever Leo Nunez.

Jacobs, who turned 28 on Thursday, should answer the Royals' need for a proven power hitter. He had career highs of 32 home runs and 93 RBIs for the Marlins last season. A left-handed hitter, he batted .247 and had an on-base percentage of .299.

(Note: I've disabled the comments on the various Jacobs posts that have been popping up so we can have all the discussion funneled to one place. The Royals blogosphere has been abuzz about this possible trade for days, and this site has been no different.)

Well, this is right out of the blueprint. With pitching the currency of baseball, Dayton Moore has used some of his change to acquire Mike Jacobs. Isn't incredible that Dick Kaegel even included his anemic OBP in the second paragraph? As devil fingers put it today, Dayton values power at the corners... and nothing else.

A Kaegel reminds us:

Jacobs, is eligible for arbitration for the first time, and his salary is expected to rise to roughly $3.5 million in 2009.

The addition of Jacobs creates an even bigger jam at first base for the Royals, who already have Ryan Shealy, Ross Gload, Billy Butler and Kila Ka'aihue lined up there.

Now, Jacobs did hit 32 home runs last season, and is about to turn 28, so its not like they've just acquired Dougie Mientkiewicz. He could even slug .500, though in adjusting to the better league, I wouldn't bet on that happening. In some respects he isn't even peaking as a player:

PA BA OBP SLG
'05 110 .310 .375 .710
''06 514 .262 .325 .473
'07 457 .265 .317 .458
'08 513 .247 .299 .514

 

I wouldn't go so far as to say he's declining, so much as he's morphing into a latter day Rico Brogna.

You know what would have been cool? Acquiring Jacobs three years ago, especially since he was paid under $400,000 annually to be Nick Swisher without the walks. Still, even at say, Kaegel's guess of $3.5 M, he's a relatively inexpensive player. He's not cheap, but its basically an irrelevant figure salary wise given that it would be hard to see this effecting additional moves, which is all that matters.

Which returns us to Nunez and the effectual payment made. Considering that there were rumors that Carlos Rosa and Ramon Ramirez were rumored to be potential Jacobs fodder, I'm happy that it was Nunez instead.

However...

However...

Nunez will be just 25 next season and is coming off his best season, having posted a 2.98 ERA in 48.3 IP, good for a +143 ERA+. Leo's FIP was also a healthy 3.75 (only two homers allowed), and he allowed the lowest LD% of his career (17.9%). Nunez may not have Rosa's potential (which also may never happen) or Ram-Ram's overall sexiness, nor is he a safe bet health wise, but he is a useful pitcher, and the Royals bullpen was much better when he was a part of it. Stay tuned for a heartfelt "Remembering Leo Nunez" post sometime this winter.

More than anything else, it comes down to whether the additional runs from upgrading from Shealy/Kila to Jacobs makes up for losing Nunez. For now, that's 80% of the issue as I see it. I haven't cruched the numbers, but here in October, that looks like more or less a wash. There are some marginal issues however, and almost all them come up as negatives. Let's run another table:

                                           
Positives Negatives
- Jacobs does have power. - Cost a useful Nunez and possibility of Nunez breakout.
- Some possibility of a MJ breakout. - Hackfest continues.
- Jacobs is better than Gload, I think. - Addition of a negative glove & baserunner.
- Opportunity cost of giving Kila/Shealy more of a look & lost potential of their breakout. Additional opp. cost of signing a better option at 1B/DH.
- Weird move & increased logjam at 1B/DH raises possibility of future sup-optimal decisions.

 

Grade: Jacobs has legitimate power and should be an upgrade over Gload. Unfortuately, that isn't really a useful standard. Losing Nunez isn't a disaster, but considering the Royals already had upgrades over Gload on hand, and that 1B/DH is the easiest position to fill, the trade just seems, in a best case scenario, pointless. Questions about Moore's ability to build a lineup unfortunately must continue. C

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Read More: hackfest, treyball, insanity, dayton moore, dayton moore's obp blindspot, the endless rebuild, the currency of baseball, mlb hotstove, Mike Jacobs (DH - KAN), Leo Nunez (P - FLA), Kansas City Royals, Florida Marlins

Comments

Display:

Listening to Petro at lunch,

and although they were covering the move from all conceivable angles, they never did even hint that Jacobs would DH instead of play 1B.

Wonder what the plan is from the Royals point of view? Do they even know the defensive metrics show him as possibly a worse 1B than Butler? If so, do they believe the metrics?

Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!

by loyal2sdad on Oct 30, 2008 1:16 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Butler=Gone

There is no way that this is the only trade involving a 1b/DH. The only one of the group that has trade value is Butler. Shealy is too old to trade and I think he has better value if we keep him. Also, I think defensively he is the best of the bunch. I hope this just means Jacobs is DH and occasionally 1B (when Shealy needs off). I like the idea of a Delmon Young/Matt Garza type trade involving Butler. Maybe a Butler for a young pitcher and catcher combo. I see Shealy at 1st for half the season, then Shealy/Kila platoon the second half with Jacobs pretty much full time DH.
Maybe the best part about this is there is no way Gload is on the team next year. No way…hopefully.

In the Royals game of life, Neifi Perez is the rake.

by Matty486 on Oct 30, 2008 1:16 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

does Butler lose value because he can't start for the KC Royals?

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Oct 30, 2008 1:26 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Jeff Clement?

Is that possible? Please not Yunieski Betancourt

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 30, 2008 1:32 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Who cares

cut him and take the hit, trade him for a bat boy, hope he finds a new religion and moves to Belize or something I don’t care just get Gload out of here!

Sign Alex Gordon to a life time contract!!!

by eboston on Oct 30, 2008 2:17 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

in reality though

do you see us getting rid of Gload. Hillman has been sipping on the Gload koolaid since he got here

by royalsfan03 on Oct 30, 2008 2:25 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Then someone

take the cup holding that koolaid away from him right now!

Sign Alex Gordon to a life time contract!!!

by eboston on Oct 30, 2008 2:27 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

kool aid?

Do we really have to keep hearing that term? It hasn’t been clever or witty for a long time.

by AxDxMx on Oct 30, 2008 3:03 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

wrong sir

it is still hip and relevant.

by ZeppelinDZ on Oct 30, 2008 3:28 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The Real Libation

Of choice at Jonestown was Flavor Aid; that’s what all the true believers in hopeless causes really drink.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Oct 30, 2008 11:05 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I would hope on all that is good and holy

that the outcome is no more Gload and a Shealy/Jacobs DH with Butler taking 1B duties. Please God let that be what is happening!

Sign Alex Gordon to a life time contract!!!

by eboston on Oct 30, 2008 1:18 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That would make the most sense

of course, what would make the most sense is not resigning Gload last season, or DFAing him this season, not trading anyone, and, if you must pick up a third guy for the 1B/DH group to go with full-time Butler and part-time Shealy, make it one of the many free guys out there who are actually better (and will be cheaper) than Jacobs.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 30, 2008 10:41 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Fair Value Return, but not a good fit?

I think that sums up my feelings. Jacobs for Nunez is certainly fair – but until we see other move(s) Moore makes to deal with the 1B/DH logjam, I have to say Jacobs is not a good fit given the current roster makeup.

Biggest concern to me: trading Butler now would be trading low, and there is a very real risk that a move like that could blow up on the Royals big-time. IMHO, Moore would be staking his job on the outcome of a move like that. Butler is ONLY 22! He could easily still develop into one of the best offensive players in baseball.

Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!

by loyal2sdad on Oct 30, 2008 1:20 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

maybe he starts in AAA?

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Oct 30, 2008 1:27 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i've been saying this since the rumor came up.

He has options. So does Kila. Gload, Shealy, and Jacobs are who we currnetly have to keep on the 25-man. Should we keep Butler up? Should Kila get the shot? I would guess that both will get a look in ST and probably start in AAA if we don’t dump Gload or trade Shealy by then. Sure, having Butler in AAA seems like a waste, but he wasn’t particulalry fantastic last year and he would get a chance to work on defense nearly every day.

Don't Stop Believing!

by KC Chris on Oct 30, 2008 2:13 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Butler in Omaha

Everyone thinks Butler was a little rushed to the ML level… so he should have spent some time in Omaha before getting here. I guess sending him there now for the ’09 season would be an option…. but it never really entered my head. Where would KK play if Bam Bam was in Omaha? It sounds like a very interesting possibility to me.

by CollininCalifornia on Oct 30, 2008 2:19 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ok

Yeah, I guess that would be ok too. But it means either Shealy, Jacobs, or Butler is on the bench every night. And eventually Kila too. That’s not maximizing your talent. This is why I see another trade coming.

In the Royals game of life, Neifi Perez is the rake.

by Matty486 on Oct 30, 2008 1:21 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

maybe

I agree, but it depends on what we get back. I other teams know this too and would be willing to pay a good price. Hopefully

In the Royals game of life, Neifi Perez is the rake.

by Matty486 on Oct 30, 2008 1:22 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i doubt it

they would realize that we have 4 or 5 first basemen/ DH and would lowball the shit out of us…excess supply=cheaper price

by royalsfan03 on Oct 30, 2008 2:12 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

butler trade

Butler=great potential young hitter. We should be able to get something back in that category, like great potential young pitcher or outfielder or catcher…or 2 of the 3

In the Royals game of life, Neifi Perez is the rake.

by Matty486 on Oct 30, 2008 1:23 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Except that DMGM and Hillman

by not playing him at first, sending him down, and not-so-subtley sending out messages about his work ethic and maturity, have devalued him even further than his disappointing performance would have by itself.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 30, 2008 10:43 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hopefully that works in our favor.

Dayton may not get an offer that he finds acceptable because of that.

Go Royals!

by BabyBlues on Oct 30, 2008 10:50 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm all for that

why trade a 22 year old who has shown a great ability to hit at all levels?
he could end up being the best hitter on the team
I say either play him at first or store him in Omaha – he can live at my house

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Oct 30, 2008 10:51 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Lock your frig

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 31, 2008 12:09 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

call the local Wendy's

The Baconater is on the loose!

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Oct 31, 2008 10:54 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

But the fanshot was up before this...

why would the fan shot be taken down for this?

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Oct 30, 2008 1:24 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yes!!

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Oct 30, 2008 1:28 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i forgot

I forgot to mention that he’ll probably only hit 14 HR’s though. But lots of opposite field singles though!

In the Royals game of life, Neifi Perez is the rake.

by Matty486 on Oct 30, 2008 1:30 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Teahen!

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Oct 30, 2008 11:16 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm backing off a bit

I was initially very much against this. But I’ll soften up. I think we’re focusing too much on what Jacobs can’t do – which Bill James has written can be a flaw of bad franchises. Yea his defense is lousy. Yea, his OBA is awful. Yea, he struggles against lefties. But he does mash home runs. Even if they go down slightly at Kauffman, he does provide a proven track record of 20-30 home run power, something that is sorely needed in Kansas City.

And let’s be honest. Ryan Shealy is nearly 30 now with not much of a MLB track record to go on. Kila was a non-prospect until last year’s dream season. They are huge question marks.

I do think this means Billy Butler is on his way out and if we can spin him in a Matt Garza type deal, this might start to shape up to look pretty good. (If he deals him for Yunieksi Betancourt, I think I might jump out a window).

I think devil_fingers said it best when he said that this is probably a good short term deal for the Royals that immediately makes them better, but is probably short-sighted in the long-term and reveals a deeper flaw in Dayton’s acquisition of offensive players with low OBA. We shall see. In the meantime, it will be nice to see someone in the lineup able to hit the ball out of the ballpark.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 30, 2008 1:36 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

a part of me feels the same way

but seriously, that non OBP is a killer

OUTS are the actual currency of baseball

by royalsreview on Oct 30, 2008 2:20 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's OK

as long as Butler isn’t the odd man out, or if they can miraculously get a good return for him. Try to get Scott Baker or Liriano from the Twins, I guess… not old enough to get Kemp or Ethier for the Dodgers. Maybe if the Royals throw JoGui in…

Better yet (and I’m sorry to keep yelling this) THERE ARE GUYS OUT THE IN FREE AGENCY WHO ARE BETTER (even just considering hitting, I think better defense goes without saying) WHO CAN BE HAD FOR LESS THAT $3M, DUMBSHITS OF KAUFMAN STADIUM.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 30, 2008 10:47 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

but how do you really feel about it?

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Oct 30, 2008 10:48 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Interesting Mets catcher fetish

I just realized we have a very odd fetish for Mets minor league catchers:

Ed Hearn
Justin Huber
Mike Jacobs

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 30, 2008 1:38 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So what are the possibilities of Butler?

Who wants him? What’s a good offer? Best fits?

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Oct 30, 2008 1:39 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Seattle

Looks like the only really good fit to me. I mentioned Jeff Clement before.

Oakland could be a long-shot, although they have Jack Cust. They could put Cust in LF, although he’s terrible defensively. Or Butler could platoon at 1B with Daric Barton. Oakland has some pitchers – Greg Smith, Dana Eveland, Justin Duchscherer – they could part with or perhaps one of their young outfielders. Not sure we could get Trevor Cahill or Brett Anderson though.

Other than that, what other AL teams need a DH? Maybe Toronto? They have Adam Lind though. Butler for Jesse Litsch? Can’t see the Jays doing that.

Hard to see any NL teams going for Butler.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 30, 2008 1:46 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree... He'd have to stay in the AL

22 year old DH. Not a good label.

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Oct 30, 2008 1:50 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The Reds

Billy Butler’s offensive threat in Great American Band Box would be at least a reason to overlook his defensive ineptitude. We could get back Homer Bailey – who the Reds have lost patience for. Bob McClure works his magic – we have Greinke’s replacement (if we can’t resign him).

BB at Coors would also be a potential fit for the Rox – not sure what we can get back though.

by Cleveland on Oct 30, 2008 1:56 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Cincy has Joey Votto

Unless you’re suggesting Butler move back to OF.

Colorado has Todd Helton at 1B, and Joe Koshansky wasting away behind him. Also Jeff Baker and Ian Stewart can play 1B. Colorado does not need Butler.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 30, 2008 1:57 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

we could trade Shealy to them.

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Oct 30, 2008 1:58 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Votto could move to LF

And that lineup would not be missing Griffey or Dunn whatsoever.

by Cleveland on Oct 30, 2008 2:01 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Personally, I like this trade

We add immediate power. The thing that EVERYONE has been ranting and raving about all year on this board.

We add MLB experience.

Playoff race experience.

What about the other things? Intangibles? Leadership? Work ethic? (grit?) I threw that last one in for some of you out there.

We moved an often injured relief pitcher for a power bat. We got the upper hand in that deal.

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Oct 30, 2008 1:41 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Getting the upper hand does not mean its the right move

There has to be a good fit, and in this case, it is not a good fit.

We always did feel the same, We just saw it from a different point of view, Tangled up in blue.
-Bob Dylan

by Royal Kingdom on Oct 30, 2008 1:45 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think it's great value for us.

A power hitting LH for us. We move a replaceable RH relief pitcher.

I think it pushes Shealy out before anyone else. KK starts in AAA like he would have anyway. Butler fights for his position with Shealy and we start the season with 2 of them.

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Oct 30, 2008 1:53 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

GMDM

He just said he thinks Gload has value on the trade market and that Kila will definitely start in AAA.
UPDATE: Gload was just traded with Teahen to the Indians for Gutierrez and and a warm bottle of Dr. Pepper

In the Royals game of life, Neifi Perez is the rake.

by Matty486 on Oct 30, 2008 1:42 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Why must you get my hopes up like that?

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 30, 2008 1:47 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We got a warm bottle of Dr Pepper? What a steal!

by sterlingice on Oct 30, 2008 1:52 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Matty in rare form today!

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Oct 30, 2008 1:54 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

GMDM

Now he did just mention that he likes getting Jacobs with Seitzer.

In the Royals game of life, Neifi Perez is the rake.

by Matty486 on Oct 30, 2008 1:43 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

sounds like an awful mixed drink

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Oct 30, 2008 10:53 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

GMDM

He said Seitzer has recently been watching a lot of tape on Jacobs. Do guys still watch “tape?” I would think they would be watching DVD’s or files on their computer.

In the Royals game of life, Neifi Perez is the rake.

by Matty486 on Oct 30, 2008 1:45 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What is a "computer"???

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 30, 2008 1:47 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1

Nothing like a good Zoolander reference.

Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!

by cmkeller on Oct 30, 2008 2:58 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

why not get both

5 1b/dh just aren’t enough, need more depth

by ZeppelinDZ on Oct 30, 2008 1:51 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

might as well! :)

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Oct 30, 2008 1:54 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I project 28 HRs, 46 2Bs, 1 3B, and 100 RBI!

This gives JoGui some protection in the lineup (Im joking).

.265 average with 50 BB and 100 K.

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Oct 30, 2008 1:56 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I have talked about this before. I like the move

KC struggled against RHP last year and Jacobs helps them for that reason. Leo IMO is not a long term answer in the pen. IMO his(Nunez) body will continue to breakdown. I don’t know how the ballpark plays in Miami for LH but it is pretty big 345 RF, 385 Power Alley 434 CF. He hit well on the road (.872 OPS) and against RHP (.857) and is a decent platoon 1b option with Billy.

It takes 46 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip 'em the bird.

by kcscoliny on Oct 30, 2008 1:58 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Platoon w/Shealy, Not Butler

As eboston was praying earlier…play Butler everyday and let Shealy and Jacobs platoon.

I don't fight extra players.

by paleblueeyes on Oct 30, 2008 2:05 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ya that too

and ship Gload away and suffer thru the defensive errors at 1b. I’m glad that they didn’t trade Rosa while he isn’t in the majors GMDM has shown talent at finding bullpen help and trading a possible front line starter would’ve been a mistake. GMDM can find a bp replacement for Nunez.

It takes 46 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip 'em the bird.

by kcscoliny on Oct 30, 2008 2:12 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Even better...

You wouldn’t know this from the brilliant KC press, but Gload’ s only above average year at 1B was 2007… Shealy has been above average every time he’s played.

Still, Jacobs is bad enough that when he plays first, he’s a below-replacement level scrub like Gload.

The man can hit, though, and if utilized the right way can help the Royals.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 30, 2008 10:51 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think Butler showed enough

to let him take on a full season at 1B. If that is the plan then I am perfectly fine with this trade.

Sign Alex Gordon to a life time contract!!!

by eboston on Oct 30, 2008 2:13 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Can’t stand the move for all of the previously stated reasons.

Here’s a prediction for the now-inevitable Butler trade: Part of a package to the Rockies for Holliday. Butler is exactly the kind of guy the Rockies love, and I’m frightened to know what numbers he would put up in Colorado. Moore has a growing relationship with Boras; I’m ready to put money on Holliday being in the outfield next year.

I'm about to change my username to DannyDuffyfan

by jackie ballgame on Oct 30, 2008 2:05 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So does this move put the Royals in the "making a run" camp?

You guys are still way, way off.

Can we still expect a Rangers-Royals trade?

GREINKE HO!!!!!

by oc on Oct 30, 2008 2:07 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Or JP Howell

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 30, 2008 2:26 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Or Mark Ellis. Or Jon Lieber.

Seriously, this trade smells exactly like those in the 90’s that sunk the Royals franchise to the sad state it’s in today. What a pathetic franchise.

Waiting for April.

by DC Royal on Oct 30, 2008 2:34 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

really?

I don’t think so.

Don't Stop Believing!

by KC Chris on Oct 30, 2008 2:35 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

exactly

Moore would not be smart to trade Butler at this point unless he got a Garza-type deal. He can always put Butler in AAA to start thr season, and then trade Jacobs/Shealy/etc mid-season.

Don't Stop Believing!

by KC Chris on Oct 30, 2008 2:40 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

so was Leo Nunez a long term answer for us?

No. He’d be injured. I bet he goes on the DL at least 2 times next year.

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Oct 30, 2008 3:20 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

were you asking me?

because I was in agreement with you. I would say most likely not.

I don’t know about twice, but I bet he hits it at least once (twss…).

Don't Stop Believing!

by KC Chris on Oct 30, 2008 3:22 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

no... just posting it for everyone.

It seemed like an ok place to put it…!??

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Oct 30, 2008 3:38 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nunie was an injury risk

but most likely, the guy who replaces him in the bully will be too

by royalsreview on Oct 30, 2008 3:43 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Of course,

now the marlins will make him a starter and he’ll have a 150 ERA+ in 190 innings next year.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Oct 30, 2008 3:45 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

in the NL.

In the AL it’d be -2

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Oct 30, 2008 3:50 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Then The Career

Ending injury.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Nov 6, 2008 1:20 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

was i the only one that liked Nunez?

i think i would have rather gotten rid of somebody else. I still think Nunez could close one day

by royalsfan03 on Oct 30, 2008 2:23 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i suppose

but he couldn’t stay healthy for very long. That’s why I’m not shedding any tears.

by CollininCalifornia on Oct 30, 2008 2:24 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I saw him

As the heir apparent to Soria’s closer role. But if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 30, 2008 2:25 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

A lot of us were, and are, fans of moving Soria to the rotation

And FWIW, I saw RamRam as the heir to Soria if that happened, rather than Nunez.

by DarthYoshi on Oct 30, 2008 2:28 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

agree

RamRam profiled better there with the K’s and GB’s

by ZeppelinDZ on Oct 30, 2008 2:29 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think many on here like the idea

but Dayton has pretty much nixed the idea, so why beat a dead horse?

We always did feel the same, We just saw it from a different point of view, Tangled up in blue.
-Bob Dylan

by Royal Kingdom on Oct 30, 2008 2:29 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

oh, many of us are

but oddly, in our weekly conference calls, Dayton didn’t seem to enthused. I think he was too caught up in doing BABIP regressions or something.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 30, 2008 10:57 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I liked Nunez

but a 30HR guy is more than fair in return. I’m fine with this trade in it’s most basic form. Just concerned what the implications are.

Sign Alex Gordon to a life time contract!!!

by eboston on Oct 30, 2008 2:26 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1

Don't Stop Believing!

by KC Chris on Oct 30, 2008 2:36 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

BBRef Similar Batters for Mike Jacobs

   1. Josh Phelps (957)
   2. George Crowe (934)
   3. Marcus Thames (932)
   4. Olmedo Saenz (929)
   5. Luke Easter (929)
   6. Josh Willingham (929)
   7. Steve Bilko (927)
   8. Bob Hamelin (925)
   9. Dave Revering (923)
  10. Harry Anderson (920)

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 30, 2008 2:39 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I wonder if the Harry Anderson comp is based on

comedy or magic talent????

We always did feel the same, We just saw it from a different point of view, Tangled up in blue.
-Bob Dylan

by Royal Kingdom on Oct 30, 2008 3:01 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Night Court Season 2

finally coming to DVD in February – can’t wait!

Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!

by cmkeller on Oct 30, 2008 4:06 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'v never met Mike Jacobs

but I’d bet $100 that he’s funnier than Harry Anderson

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 31, 2008 12:31 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Does this mean

Tony Pena is still on the team?

Mike Jacobs you're 2009 AL MVP

by eboston on Oct 30, 2008 2:56 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Jacobs/Guillen

the most feared 3/4 in the Central? Only time will tell

Mike Jacobs you're 2009 AL MVP

by eboston on Oct 30, 2008 2:59 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

who will hit into more double plays?

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Oct 30, 2008 10:56 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Jacobs actually isn't so bad that way

do hitting him behind Guillen isn’t the end of the world… although in front of might be

(line)

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 30, 2008 10:58 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

stop it, must.resist.urge.to.make.snarky.comment

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Oct 30, 2008 10:59 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

More like 4/5

not 3/4. Gordon should be in the 3 hole. The lineup sounds better at least without Gload.

DDJ
Aviles
Gordon
Guillen
Jacobs
Butler/Shealy
Buck/Olivo/B Pena/??
Teahen/warm bottle of Dr. Pepper/Gutierrez/Kila moves to OF?/??
Callaspo

by AxDxMx on Oct 30, 2008 3:14 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

According to Fox Sports

Nunez is an “Elite” reliever…what have you done Dayton?

Mike Jacobs you're 2009 AL MVP

by eboston on Oct 30, 2008 3:00 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

lol.....elite.... lol... what a joke.

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Oct 30, 2008 3:22 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He was pretty decent. Elite? No.

And wasn’t he a little suspect after the injury?

Don't Stop Believing!

by KC Chris on Oct 30, 2008 3:24 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

hmmm...

how many other elite relievers do we have that we don’t know about?

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Oct 30, 2008 3:39 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

no...

that’s Sluggerrrrrrrrrrrr

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Oct 31, 2008 10:55 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

(facepalm)

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Oct 30, 2008 3:40 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Preferable To Faceplant?

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Nov 6, 2008 1:23 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

DM on 610 right now

Sam Mellinger seemed kinda down on the deal

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 30, 2008 3:45 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

update??

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Oct 30, 2008 3:51 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Comments

-Wanted to trade for Jacobs this past summer
-Its up to Trey whether Jacobs will hit 4th, 5th or 6th
-Feel Jacobs can improve his defense
-Feels at age 28, Jacobs can still improve
-Will spend some time at DH
-Mentioned Billy Butler has options
-Mentioned we could very possibly move one of our many first basemen in another deal

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 30, 2008 3:51 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

More comments

-Better lineup will be better for Zack and Gil
-Shealy recaptured expectations, has a chance to play everyday (where?)
-Didn’t want to engage in hypotheticals regarding Greinke

Pretty short interview

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 30, 2008 3:55 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

"Immature"

and not DMGM’s guy.

Seriously, I hardly think I’m being unfair…. I had more written here, but I’m getting myself too worked up over one stupid deal.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 30, 2008 11:02 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hmmm....acquire a 1B and mention immediately that BB has options

Assuming BB isn’t traded, what’s the over/under on his weight coming into spring training? I’m thinking it just dropped 25 pounds.

by kcdc1 on Oct 30, 2008 5:48 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Note To Self

Sell Wendy’s Stock.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Nov 6, 2008 1:25 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Mellinger's still trying to get the bad taste of his midseason JoGui enthusiasm out of his mouth

it would be nice if someone besides JoPo had the stones to call DMGM out with, you know, numbers and facts.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 30, 2008 10:59 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Just a thought that I had

and I apologize if it’s already been covered, but I haven’t had time to read through all the posts, but one possibility could be that Billy the Kid is optioned to Omaha to start the year in order to give Shealy the opportunity to play everyday at IB with Jacobs as the DH, or vice versa. If Shealy bombs, then you bring up BB.

This still leaves Gload on the roster, and I am doubtful that he will be released. That would mean that Teahen would have to go, IMO.

I hereby resign from this post.

by Home Run Tony Cogan on Oct 30, 2008 3:53 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think that is the plan

Unless they are able to trade Butler or Shealy, which it sounds like they are looking to do.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 30, 2008 3:54 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i don't know if they're

looking to trade Butler so much as fielding offers on him. It wouldn’t make any sense to shop him since he has options unless DM is convinced he’s not going to pan out.

Don't Stop Believing!

by KC Chris on Oct 30, 2008 3:55 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Even if Butler stays

And becomes the hitter he should be, I think Dayton’s attitude has made it far more likely that his sixth season in KC would be his last, as there’s probably 29 organizations who would cherish his bat more than KC seems to cherish him.

Sometimes you just gotta roll the potato.

by CentralChamps2009 on Oct 30, 2008 7:07 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What?

I go to teach 7th hour and I come back to only 50 more posts? Ridiculous. Next time I get back here I want 2 1B traded. Get it done! I don’t care who, except one of them has to be Gload.

Gload – we can get some type of beverage, probably, and hopefully cold. If we settle on a warm bottle of DP then I guess that’s something. What about Gload and TPJ for Milwaukee’s AA backup catcher and some of that Miller Genuine Draft they brew up there. That sound’s fair, right?
And….Butler to Oakland for Carlos Gonzalez/Aaron Cunningham and Gio Gonzalez/Dallas Braden. One of the hitters and one of the pitchers.

In the Royals game of life, Neifi Perez is the rake.

by Matty486 on Oct 30, 2008 3:58 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nobody has said it,

but on a personal level, this really sucks for Nunez. I mean, I would think a young guy who has been through these losing years would be pretty excited about getting out of KC, but then to find out it’s the Marlins… ouch.

Don't Stop Believing!

by KC Chris on Oct 30, 2008 3:58 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Um

The Marlins were contenders last year!

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 30, 2008 3:59 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i guess.

I’ve never been a young hispanic in either area. Although I do eat a lot of mexican food downtown.

Don't Stop Believing!

by KC Chris on Oct 30, 2008 4:04 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Google the city woman see the difference LOL

KC
Miami

I think that says it all…I wish my wife would trade me to Miami

It takes 46 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip 'em the bird.

by kcscoliny on Oct 30, 2008 4:08 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Argentine District Rules!

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Nov 6, 2008 1:30 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Every KC baseball fan knows a little Spanish

Nostromos Creemos!

Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!

by cmkeller on Oct 30, 2008 4:08 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I Don't Know

What that means.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Oct 31, 2008 12:42 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It means

“I believe the Royals will get creamed!”

Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!

by cmkeller on Oct 31, 2008 11:17 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

A few questions, because I don't think we've been reacting to this strongly enough

1. Mark Jacobs: awful player or the worst player ever?

2. Dayton Moore: the worst GM in baseball or the worst GM in professional sports?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Oct 30, 2008 4:04 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1

It takes 46 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip 'em the bird.

by kcscoliny on Oct 30, 2008 4:05 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

umm...

Is this sarcasm?

In the Royals game of life, Neifi Perez is the rake.

by Matty486 on Oct 30, 2008 4:05 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

don't forget the flip side

which is probably over-stating how good Nunez is/was

still… i do think this is just a bizarre, pointless move

and I really don’t understand the negative turn re: Butler

by royalsreview on Oct 30, 2008 4:07 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah, Nunez is/was a good middle reliever

A good setup man who can be counted on to pitch about 3/4 of a season.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Oct 30, 2008 4:09 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hmmm

Do you think 80% of pitchers spend as much time on the DL as Nunez has in his career? I don’t think the numbers bear that out. But, more importantly, do you think his market value was higher than Jacobs? Not that Jacobs was the right player for the Royals to acquire. But it’s not like the Royals undersold Nunez’s talent/value.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Oct 30, 2008 4:13 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think we need more data to decide on these questions

I mean, it’s firmly established that DMGM is the most brilliant pitching evaluator of all-time, but I’ll need to see 5-10 more years of hitter acquisitions to make a judgment.

Especially since I can’t find a “Mark Jacobs” who played 1B for the Marlins lately…

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 30, 2008 11:07 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hooray for strawmen!

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 31, 2008 11:02 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hooray for you!

You took a debate class. Go pat yourself on the back. Oh wait, you’re already doing that.

by AxDxMx on Oct 31, 2008 11:58 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think he's actually on your side on this one, AxDxMx

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 31, 2008 9:39 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

does someone have good defensive numbers for jacobs?

could we cobble together a quick Gload/Jacobs comp?

by royalsreview on Oct 30, 2008 4:05 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

how about a

Jacobs/Brazell comp? :)

Don't Stop Believing!

by KC Chris on Oct 30, 2008 4:11 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Gload innings at first and +/-

2006 CWS 247.1 -6
2007 KC 675.2 +5
2008 KC 878.1 -7

Jacobs
2006 Fla 972.0 -12
2007 Fla 903.0 -10
2008 Fla 927.1 -27

by laxtonto on Oct 30, 2008 4:24 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

wow

-27

but don’t wprry GMDM thinks he can improve

by royalsreview on Oct 30, 2008 11:47 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

GMDM apparently thinks "-6" = Gold Glove

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 31, 2008 12:37 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Come on NYRoyal

Don’t turn into Rob Neyer

In the Royals game of life, Neifi Perez is the rake.

by Matty486 on Oct 30, 2008 4:07 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hey

I thought it would be good if Shealy and Jacobs were part of a LH/RH platoon except a little research reveals Shealy can’t hit for shit against righties.

See ya Ryan.

Accidentally not thedude925 anymore. I do hate this new name.

by wildthang on Oct 30, 2008 4:10 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

His odd reverse platoon split is only in small sample sizes

In larger sample sizes (as you can see in minor league numbers), he has more normal platoon splits (hits LHP better).

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Oct 30, 2008 4:11 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ok

I was about to look that up but I just guessed because a guy like Ryan Shealy would hit righties better than lefties as a righty.

oh well, I still think he and Gload are gone and not Butler.

Accidentally not thedude925 anymore. I do hate this new name.

by wildthang on Oct 30, 2008 4:13 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Butler

I dont think anyone has turned on Butler, but there HAS TO be another move. I don’t know who else it could be. He’s the one with the value. And you still have a good chance that either Shealy or Kila turns into a good ML run producer. The odds are strong, I think. If we turn Butler into a strong starter or hitter, then it will basically be like we traded Nunez for a strong starter or hitter if Jacobs puts up the same numbers as Butler, which they won’t be that different.

In the Royals game of life, Neifi Perez is the rake.

by Matty486 on Oct 30, 2008 4:11 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

OK yeah this was a good move

Jacobs rakes, and although the OBP sucks, we still got a big power guy for the small price of a middle reliever.

Did Nunez even have that much service time left?

Accidentally not thedude925 anymore. I do hate this new name.

by wildthang on Oct 30, 2008 4:14 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

agreed

In the Royals game of life, Neifi Perez is the rake.

by Matty486 on Oct 30, 2008 4:15 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't think it was a good move

The Royals didn’t give up too much for him, but a .250/.300/.500 1B with poor defense is something that can be found for $1M or less on the FA market. Now the Royals will be paying $3M+ for it, as well as giving up Nunez. Not an awful acquisition, but a poor one.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Oct 30, 2008 4:16 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

not only that

but it seems to signal more bizarre moves

by royalsreview on Oct 30, 2008 4:18 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We really have no idea about that

Does that mean they’ll trade Butler? No idea. If so, will they trade him for less than makes sense for the Royals? No idea. Will there be other “bizarre” moves, or will they be good ones? No idea. We really don’t know what this signals.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Oct 30, 2008 4:19 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm not sure it signals bizarre moves,

but on the surface its not real progress and its adding to the logjam at 1B/DH. If it means the end of gload, that’d be neat. But that wouldn’t be fair to Rossy.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Oct 30, 2008 4:21 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

there has been a logjam at 1b/DH

and somehow part of the solution was to acquire another one

sure, DM could have some brilliant move planned involving Butler, and everyone knows he’s been poor-mouthed by me from time to time…

how do you come out of last season and say, before anything else, “I need to trade butler”?

overall, this just seems like weird decision-making and less than savvy thinking. as you said, cheaper options can be found at 1B/dh, to say nothing of the internal ones… yea, Shealy/Kila/Gload is probably below average, but then again, what is mike jacobs really?

1b/dh is not the problem with this team, and if it was, jacobs isn’t a solution anyway

by royalsreview on Oct 30, 2008 4:25 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That last line pretty much sums up my thinking on this

I’m really not in love with this move.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Oct 30, 2008 4:33 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

my thoughts on the logjam at 1B

they are all about the same… Gload, no power, not what we want. Shealy, not proven, power potential, Butler, not proven, high average, medium power, Kila, one great year in the minors… I don’t see a logjam of GREAT talent there. This improves that position.

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Oct 30, 2008 5:37 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No it doesn't

Jacobs has a career .318 OBP, and he already peaked.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Oct 30, 2008 5:38 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Did you read RR's piece?

He’s actually been getting worse in terms of OBP recently, and his three trend is far from encouraging.

Also, no crap? “I don’t know that.” Brilliant argument. Everything we deal with when it comes to baseball deals in probability. I don’t “know” anything 100%. Neither do you. But I’m pretty damn sure last year was Jacob’s “best year” in terms of power, and he’s moving to the tougher league.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Oct 30, 2008 5:42 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

just like Gil Meche had peaked at 27....

and was headed down.

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Oct 30, 2008 5:43 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oh, right,

and Gil Meche is such a good player comp for Mike Jacobs. Thanks for that.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Oct 30, 2008 5:45 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

what did you say about Meche when he was signed?

(i wasn’t a member at this great site so I don’t know) 28 years old, reaching the peak of his productive years…. get a good year out of him, then Kila is ready, and then HOSMER is ready… all for 40 IPs.

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Oct 30, 2008 5:46 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I said I didn't think much of the signing,

though I did a long piece that outlined some of the positive such as his strikeout rate in comparison to some of the better pitchers in the league.

What I said or anyone else said about Gil Meche has nothing to do with Mike Jacobs.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Oct 30, 2008 5:47 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

but it shows you could be wrong... and I could be too.

If you didn’t like Meche and he’s turned into a solid #2 borderline #1, let’s just trust GMDM instead of throwing out bad names and thoughts on the guy. We should be excited that we have PROBLEMS at first base. I wish we had these problems at C.

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Oct 30, 2008 5:49 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oh wow

you proved that I don’t know everything about baseball. There’s a good argument. Got me there! What the hell was the point of that BS?

Meche is not a legit comp for Jacobs, so I don’t place any weight in what you’re saying. And I’m not trusting GMDM to be right about a move that has a significant body of evidence that suggests that it is at best redundant.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Oct 31, 2008 2:19 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i think you’re letting your off-the-field incidents affect your play on the field… ever get that resolved?

That’s an unfair assumption. When you disagree vehemently with me, should I suggest you’re having problems “off the field”? That’s not a fair way to argue a point of contention about baseball players or anything else. So whatever. And no, off field events have nothing to do with my thinking some of the arguments in this thread are baloney.

Do I think Jacobs was necessarily the shrewd trade GMDM should have made? No.

Is it terrible and going to cripple the franchise? No.

I never said it was franchise crippling, just not a good trade and not a sign that Moore’s learned anything about the team’s OBP issues.

And yes, I read RR’s piece. He had considerably fewer plate appearances in ‘05 than the other three years, so I took that one with a grain of salt. I’ll admit that I’m not very good at analyzing stats, and yes, last year was his peak year for power so far. But I think I read he also had a low BABIP last year. Since his OBP is heavily tied to AVG, and Moore/Seitzer thinks that can improve, shouldn’t we also think there’s room for improvement? I don’t know a whole lot about him, but I think stating that at 28 years old he is completely washed up is a little brash.

Who said he was washed up? Not me! I just made the totally valid point that he’s not very good and just had his Age 27 “breakout.”

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Oct 31, 2008 1:05 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No reason for this.

I was just joking around. It was not my place to jest on that. It is the sort of comment my buddies and I would have made when arguing about something, and I obviously don’t know you well enough to joke like that with you. Sorry if it offended you. I responded too quickly to some of the things you posted (no crap, brilliant, oh wow…). I took them as very snarky. So I made an off-color comment about whatever the situation you’ve been having is. Won’t happen again.

Anyway…

No, you didn’t say that the move was franchise crippling, nor did I say you did. I was making a point that this is fairly minor. I’m pretty sure Moore knows that Jacobs has a crappy OBP. He probably took it into consideration with another move or two he has planned. Maybe not. I have no idea. I’m just not going to get too worked up over this trade. I didn’t see Nunez being with us for much longer as he had already been traded once and is injury prone. Could we have gotten more, or maybe someone at a different position than Jacobs? Again, I have no idea, but probably.

You did not specifically say he was washed up; I mistyped on that. You did say he had already peaked. My bad on jacking up the semantics.
 
And we are not disagreeing on Jacobs. I’m not thrilled with what he can’t do. I do appreciate what he can do, thoguh. And the trade is done, so I ‘m not going to worry about what we coulda/shoulda/woulda done. I’ve sat through a lot of seasons. There are good trades and bad trades. Hopefully there will be more good than bad and the Royals win.

Don't Stop Believing!

by KC Chris on Oct 31, 2008 1:43 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My snarkiness had something to do that I'd much rather

have a debate of opinions rather than have someone tell me that “I don’t know that” or “you’ve been wrong before.” I see no reason not to just skip that stuff. You disagree with me? Fine. I just think it’s a given that I’m fallible. None of my posts have disclaimers that say “this is the only right opinion, mine!” :)

There are no problems I’m having in “real life” that are affecting my opinions here, just to clarify. Thank you for your apology.

You did not specifically say he was washed up; I mistyped on that. You did say he had already peaked. My bad on jacking up the semantics.

There’s a big difference between “peaked” and “washed up.” Most average players are peaking or have already peaked around Jacob’s age. He just set career highs in counting stats. These some of the things I’m taking into account when I say he’s peaked.

And we are not disagreeing on Jacobs. I’m not thrilled with what he can’t do. I do appreciate what he can do, thoguh

I acknowledge that his power is pretty good. He’s just another not-very-impressive corner player without the upside of Butler or the intrigue of Ka’aihue.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Oct 31, 2008 3:51 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You're going to have to explain

how me thinking Jacobs isn’t very good means that my “true colors are showing.”

Or maybe you can’t, because that’s just a ridiculous statement.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Oct 31, 2008 1:07 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I was talking more about your lack of faith in the Royals

than this specific trade….

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Oct 31, 2008 3:03 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't know how you're coming to the conclusion

that I have a lack of faith in the Royals. I think I’m generally pretty optimistic about them, to the point where sometimes I have to tone it down. I just don’t like this trade and the implications for Butler and Ka’aihue.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Oct 31, 2008 3:43 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wait,

what’s more, I also REALLY don’t care to get in a pissing contest about which team I root for. Just so’s you know.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Oct 31, 2008 3:44 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What I'd really like to know

is where the “pissing contest” metaphor started. I mean in general. All the sudden, I have no idea why someone would think it is a good idea.

Little help? RR, isn’t this a chapter in your dissertation?

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 31, 2008 9:31 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I came to that conclusion from reading the above comments from you

go back and read what you wrote, look at it from an outside point of view.

And please don’t get irrationally mad like you did at KC Chris that started this whole thing…

I merely stated that I thought it made us BETTER as a team even though it added to the percieved logjam….

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Oct 31, 2008 8:51 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah,

well you seem to be questioning whether I care if the Royals do well. So what? Because I don’t like this deal, I’m not Royal Blue enough? I wish I’d known that someone had given you power to judge that. If that’s what you think, I don’t care to justify myself to you. Go ahead and think I’m a Red Sox homer who doesn’t give a shit about KC.

and I was stating I don’t think this deal improves the team. That’s called a difference of opinion, and it’s not a reasonable basis to accuse someone of that “showing their true colors” stuff.

Irrationally mad? Yeah okay. You attack my fandom and now I’m mad at you because I think it was a stupid thing to do. That’s not irrational. Unless your definition of “irrational” is “in opposition to my point of view.”

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Nov 1, 2008 3:03 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1

Cindy Lauper will bring us all together in these trying times

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 31, 2008 9:40 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Cindy Comes Through

Time after time.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Nov 1, 2008 8:24 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

D+.

We saw what Shealy has become and cockblocking him with someone like Jacobs is inexcusable. Nunez was one of my favorites after pitching very well since he wasn’t traded for Bradley, but I guess Dayton is set on getting rid of every single trinket of the Baird era this off-season.

Banny being Banny.

by JobDDT on Oct 30, 2008 4:17 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We saw what Shealy has become?

When did we see that? One good month in the majors? Come on. We still have no idea what Shealy is. Sure I’d rather he and Kila get some good PT in the majors in 2009 to see that, but to argue that we know Shealy is at least a decent MLB 1B is baseless.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Oct 30, 2008 4:20 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He was only given one month majors time last season.

He was raking in the minors. He put up numbers in the minors I would expect Jacobs to have put up in the minors. We finally brought him up in spite of Dayton’s man-crush for all things Ross, and he did nothing but be the best Royals player on the roster for September. Shealy should be our 1B next year, unless we can get someone better. Mike Jacobs, overall, is not better.

Banny being Banny.

by JobDDT on Oct 30, 2008 4:24 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He wasn’t raking in the minors. A guy of his age, who has been in AAA for multiple seasons, in the PCL should be hitting better than a .850 OPS. That isn’t “raking” by any reasonable definition of that word. Any faith in Shealy or expectation that he’ll be good is based on…..what? There really isn’t much of any support for it.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Oct 30, 2008 4:26 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

you THINK mike jacobs is better than ross gload?

really? geez, you really are blinded by your anti dayton moore glasses.

by chicagoroyalsfan on Oct 30, 2008 4:24 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

wanna see how the defensive numbers shake out

but yea, jacobs is better than gload

how much, i don’t know

by royalsreview on Oct 30, 2008 4:26 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1000000

of course, I hear the jury’s still out on statistics.

The very fact that they impugn the brilliance of the Gload and Jacobs acquisitions show their flaws.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 30, 2008 11:10 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

everyone just say

platoon partner platoon partner platoon partner over and over.

Its not a bad deal when we look at it that way.

we traded a non pivotal asset in Nunez who if we believe in Moore’s high success rate in finding quality relievers (hopefully not just statistical noise) then its nno loss there.

Accidentally not thedude925 anymore. I do hate this new name.

by wildthang on Oct 30, 2008 4:24 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Didn't work

I liked thinking of Kila as a platoon partner this year, but that dream is over, so, it doesn’t make it better.

Sometimes you just gotta roll the potato.

by CentralChamps2009 on Oct 30, 2008 7:02 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

if the whole dh-ing for the royals thing doesn't work out...

…I’d say he definitely has a second career lined up in musical theater.

by DarthYoshi on Oct 30, 2008 4:28 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ha!

Don't Stop Believing!

by KC Chris on Oct 30, 2008 4:29 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

caption contest?

He looks like he’s in a musical.

Don't Stop Believing!

by KC Chris on Oct 30, 2008 4:29 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Gotta dance!!!!!!!!!!!!

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Oct 31, 2008 8:07 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Looks like he just let one rip

A fart I mean, not a home run.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 30, 2008 8:41 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

"If I do this 40 times a year, I'll reach replacement level"

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 30, 2008 11:11 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm really going to miss Leo.

It was easy rooting for him after the Milton Bradley debacle.

Banny being Banny.

by JobDDT on Oct 30, 2008 4:33 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Anybody have Bill James Projections on Jacobs?

It takes 46 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip 'em the bird.

by kcscoliny on Oct 30, 2008 4:48 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Fishstripes already posted them

0.270/0.325/0.515 0.841 OPS

26 HR

I have found that James projections are usually pretty optimistic, especially for power hitters.

I think he had Jose Guillen OPSing about .816 this year or something, for example.

I like James’ writing, but his projections are, um… I’ll wait for Pecota or Zips.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 30, 2008 11:53 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Let me add

that I don’t think Bill personally does the projections, right? They just slap his name on the “Stats, Inc.” projections?

Someone fill us in here.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 31, 2008 12:04 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

correct

its stats or whatever his brand is now

by royalsreview on Oct 31, 2008 12:17 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Are those projections

for him specifically as a Marlin? Facing NL pitching, playing in Miami?

Any reason to think they’d be revised with the understanding that he’d be a Royal?

Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!

by cmkeller on Oct 31, 2008 11:20 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

True date, Professor

I know that “proven power guy” is a relative term for the Royals, but hitting 30 HRs once doesn’t make you a power hitter. Yes, it’s an improvement over Gload, but we’re giving up a lot in defense/OBP/AVG for a guy who will probably hit > 30 HRs.

by hippdoghipp on Oct 30, 2008 5:38 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs