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Tradeable Commodities

I know the GMDM article in the Star yesterday is already being discussed in another post, but I'm hoping the subject matter discussed here is different enough to not seem redundant.  The article seemed to indicate that GMDM won’t have much $ to spend in the free agent market this offseason so any impactful moves seem likely to come via trade.  However, I just don’t see GMDM and his win now (and later) and "pitching is the currency of baseball" philosophy trading Zack or Soria or Meche - nor does JoPo, it would seem.  So do we have any truly tradeable commodities that could net an impactful player at the major league level in 2009?  Let’s look.

 

1. David DeJesus – outside of Zack and the Mexicutioner, it would seem that DJ is the most valuable commodity.  He’s coming off of a career year (not that he blew previous years’ numbers out of the water, but…).  DJ hit .307/.366/.452/.818 with an OPS+ of 114.  That’s good for anyone and it’s great for a CF.  He can lead-off, hit well against lefties or righties (he’s a career .294 hitter against RHP and a career .272 hitter against LHP = solid), and best of all he’s signed way below league average for 3 more years (the final year being a club option).  CF is a demanding position and several high power teams will be looking to upgrade in CF this offseason (Yankees, Cubs, Braves, etc).  As much as I hate to say it, it might be time to sell high on David.  He’s been somewhat injury prone throughout his career.  It would seem that Mitch Maier possesses many of the same skills and is currently cheaper, faster, and better defensively than David.  But we really have no clue what Mitch can do as an everyday major leaguer.

    Conclusion:  Listen to all offers for DJ this offseason (and I would think there will be several).  If he can bring back one major league ready positional upgrade* (MIF, C, OF, 1B) and one or two solid AA or AAA (or high ceiling low) prospects, I think you move him.

*Incoming player X has to be a reasonably established upgrade at a position of need (i.e. Robinson Cano, Max Ramirez, Mike Theriot).

 

2. Hiram Kyle Davies – is it possible that HKD built himself some trade value with his strong finish to 2008?  My guess is any 24 year old starting pitcher with his “stuff” has some value.  And actually getting some major league hitters out can only enhance it.  The real question is, does Kyle have more value to the Royals as a possible solid #3 or #4 starter in 2009 or would this be considered selling high in anticipation of the inconsistent Kyle (GD-it, KYLE!) returning?  And what could we get for Kyle?  Would a pitching starved organization like the Rangers accept a deal of Davies and a minor league pitcher (Pimental?) for one of their catchers not named Laird?  I’m still not a Hiram-believer (I’m more of a Hiram-hoper) so I’d certainly listen.

 

Conclusion:  Think hard about selling high on Kyle.  He’s very young, durable, talented and under team control for several more years.  Teams will overpay for pitching, no?  My guess is there’s potential Davies could net the Rs a piece of the 2009 major league puzzle, but it’d have to be a good piece since he’s likely to be a part of the 2009 rotation as we stand today.

 

3. Ron Mahay – Ron had a stellar 2/3 of a season, then got hurt and struggled down the stretch.  Still, I think Ron is valued fairly highly as a rare established lefty vet in the pen who can get both lefties and righties out.  He’s in the final year of a 2 year deal, receiving $4M in 2009.  Ron was a much talked about commodity at the 2008 trade deadline, but nothing came of it.  Doesn’t mean GMDM won’t receive a few calls this offseason about Ron.  Thing is, what can you realistically hope to get for a 37 year-old (he’ll turn 38 mid year in 2009) reliever with one year left on his deal?  This past July the Marlins acquired Arthur Rhodes for minor league RHP Gaby Hernandez; last December Milwaukee Acquired RHP Salomon Torres from the Pittsburgh Pirates in exchange for RHP Marino Salas and RHP Kevin Roberts.   At the trade deadline in 2007 we all know what Octavio Dotel (a 2-month rental) brought us.  I know, I know… Dotel had that magical dollar sign associated with being a “closer.”

 

Conclusion:  Chances are trading Mahay does not help the 2009 club.  It seems he would bring a high minor league B or C prospect at best.  I’m not sure this is the way Dayton wants to go.  If he really thinks competing in 2009 in an option, I would think you keep Mahay and explore flipping him at the deadline.

4. Alex Gordon/Billy Butler – I don’t like the idea of looking to trade either of these guys simply because you’re selling low… way low, I hope.  It sounds like Gordon especially still has value around the league, but how does removing one of our supposed “cornerstones” (at least offensively) help the future of the organization?  I don’t know if it would be possible to pull a Delmon Young for Matt Garza type of trade this offseason, but I somehow doubt it.  Delmon had a solid rookie campaign.  Gordon and Butler are coming off of two unspectacular (probably somewhere between solid and mediocre, but a lot closer to mediocre) seasons.

 

Conclusion:  I think Gordon has to stay and I’m with some of you who have suggested locking him up while his value is low.  He’s a local (sort of) kid and it’s not hard to see him becoming a perennial all-star and who should be league average for his position at worst.  Now, if someone wants to offer up a stud pitcher or stud OF for Billy, I think you consider it seriously.  I’d love, love, love for Bam Bam to rake for the Royals for the next 5-10 (to 20) years, but it doesn’t look good for him to ever hold down a position defensively.  DH has to be the easiest position to fill through free-agency… (or maybe Kila Monster profiles there if we find a legit 1B or if Shealy somehow becomes a viable option).  I think flipping Billy for a legit position player or starting pitcher just makes sense.  Now, how realistic it is, I’m not sure.

 

I had thought about including Leo Nunez and Ram Ram here, but they sort of fit in the Mahay category (not as established certainly, but can you really expect to get equal value for a relief pitcher who has not closed ballgames?  My guess is no unless you’re willing to accept A or AA talent.)  And then there’s Jose Guillen.  I’d love to send JoGui packing.  Not even because of his anemic OBP (although that drives me crazy!!), but because for all his “passion,” I don’t see him solidifying a clubhouse; quite the opposite.  He’s rarely played on a winner (and he’s had his chances playing for a third of baseball).  The one true winning organization he played for kicked his @ss out of the post season.  Anyway, to trade Jose now would mean accepting $0.50 on the dollar and unless you’ve got some defunct junk bonds, that’s probably not a winning proposition.  I’d still listen (maybe Seattle wants him back), but my guess is the Rs would end up eating half of his salary (at least) and that still handcuffs us with no obvious choice around to step into a corner OF position.  (I was going to say “no one else around to pick up the run production,” but I’d argue that Alex Gordon or Billy Butler would have had nearly as many RBIs if they were batting 4th all year – which is why we all know RBIs are a lousy stat.)

 

Sadly, I see the above as the extent of our “valuable” commodities if Donald Zachary, Soria, and Meche are excluded.  At the high minor league level, even Carlos Rosa has a seemingly serious injury to battle with this offseason leaving only Dan Cortes as a realistic trade possibility (with any value).

 

What have I missed?  Am I completely off-base here?  Bring on the thoughts of the RR faithful!

(I apologize for the crappy formatting)

2 recs | Comment 105 comments

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His option will be declined, making him a free agent

So we cannot trade him.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 6, 2008 12:10 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Don't put it past Dayton

He did manage to acquire Ross Gload, didn’t he?

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 6, 2008 12:22 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't think the Royals should trade Butler

His value just isn’t what it could be. He hasn’t really hit in the majors yet, and by refusing to give him regular time at 1B, the Royals only made him less valuble. The Royals need help on offense, even if it’s just at DH. They couldn’t get a good pitcher for him, and I doubt they’d get a position player (who is young enough to make sense for the Royals) back who could hit much better that Billy, anyway.

Good thoughts, though. Although I think Ramirez is better than Mahay (out of his three seasons, in his two healthy ones he was better than Mahay’s best season (2004), and Nunez probably will be, too, going forward, Mahay probably does have as much value now as he will near the deadline next year. i like Mahay, but after the break, his performance dropped off so much he wasn’t even an average AL reliever. He hasn’t had a ‘kick ass’ season since 2004. Hopefullly, he can “get it back” next summer. In any case, I don’t think even a good lefty reliever brings back much anymore. I think a B+ prospect is probably the most the Royals could hope for.

JoGui is probably unmovable, but the truth is that he will probably heat up next May/June, and everyone will get stupid about him again. Hopefully, Dayton Moore is not one of those people and moves him just to get out of the contract.

I still say that if they don’t think Soria can start, they should move him now to a team that will give them a young MLB power bat in the OF. If Dayton is really serious about “winning now,” then he either needs to move Soria to the rotation or trade him for someone like Kemp, Ethier or someone along those lines. Either one of those moves would be the fastest, cheapest, and most direct way to improve the team.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 6, 2008 12:31 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Soria starting et al

thanks for the thoughtful response. On Soria, I’m in the try him in the rotation camp, but it just doesn’t seem like DM is. Now, there’s some reason to be encouraged since provisions for innings pitched, etc. were put into his contract, but everything I’ve seen DM say indicates Soria stays in the pen at least for now. Maybe if a Davies is moved, Banny continues to struggle, Rosa is hurt, etc. Soria to the rotation becomes more of a necessity of the eyes of the organization.

On Butler, I’m not a fan of trading him either and you make some good points, but I’m not sure it’s out of the question the more I think about it. He has seemed to struggle gaining favor with management, he’s not a GMDM guy (one of my buddies pointed out that Davies is… since he was 17 so that trade possibility might be even more of a long shot), and I think he hasn’t gotten the time at 1B b/c he’s just not good there. Anyone know if BB is playing winter ball this year? Anyway, you’re probably right, he probably doesn’t bring back a Matt Garza, but I wonder if Bam Bam is one of the players GMDM isn’t too thrilled with in the clubhouse.

"Greinke and the Brain" (R) (C) TM

by SittinByTheFoulPole on Oct 6, 2008 12:45 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree with DMGM not being too high on him

Not any solid ev., just playing time, and the constant talk of “just being young isn’t an excuse any more,” plus a normally tight-lipped org having George Brett go on talk radio and talk about BB being sent down for maturity issues. I won’t go into how annoying this is.

Having said, that I guess it’s the difference between what the Royals should do, and what the will do. I’ m talking “should.”

Given the way the Royals have used him, Butler is only going to interest Al teams to begin with. And who is going to give up much for a 22 year-old DH who with a career MLB OPS under .800? Yeah, I think he’ll be better than that, but at this point, the Royals don’t have much leverage. They aren’t going to get back a hitter of equal value, and any pitcher they get who is MLB ready would be, at best, another guy like Davies. Not bad, but the Royals already have a Kyle Davies, what they need is hitters.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 6, 2008 2:11 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1

Butler just isn’t much of a trade chip at this point. If we trade him now, we could REALLY regret it given the likelihood of a middling return.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Oct 9, 2008 3:44 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Davies

I don’t think we would get much for Davies. Maybe a relief pitcher or a C prospect in AA. He’s more valuable to us in the rotation next year to see if he can turn his “stuff” into results, then sell him high next offseason (if we don’t trade Zach before that).

I think mostly we’ll be looking for guys like Carlos Quentin that either haven’t performed or don’t have a position and try to buy low and pray. My guess is that there will be a player out there in the Rule 5 like a Availes. We have to go find him and draft him.

by Stook on Oct 6, 2008 12:49 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Agree on Davies

And if he sucks next year I think its worth seeing if he can become a solid reliever.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 6, 2008 1:30 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Potential closer of the future

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 6, 2008 2:11 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

only if he can keep improving his control on his stuff

I’d rather see Davies in a role similar to what Zack did in 2007 for us in the ’pen—a power reliever who can go for 2-3 innings and save the rest of the bullpen during a tight game. RamRam seems more like a future closer to me than Davies (although I do think Davies pretty much guaranteed himself a job next year with how well he pitched these past couple months).

by DarthYoshi on Oct 6, 2008 4:52 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree

I think Davies is going to have a problem getting a lot of K’s while keeping his walk rate down (with his improved control came a notably lower K-rate this year). So I don’t see him as a good closer. I think he is and will continue to make a pretty good back-of-the-rotation starter, or a good long reliever or setup man. He might even become a very good long reliever or setup man.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Oct 6, 2008 5:04 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Kind of

I see Howell as being the one more likely to be a very good setup man and Davies more likely to be a decent #4/5 or long reliever. I think Davies pitch complement makes him more likely to be effective for 3-5 innings (2-3 times through the lineup) than Howell.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Oct 6, 2008 7:21 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Keep in mind

A move to the pen will likely increase his K rate.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 7, 2008 9:45 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

True

And that’s why I see him becoming a good reliever.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Oct 7, 2008 10:40 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't think Butler's value is low

Not at all. In fact, Butler might be our most valuable offensive commodity on the trade market. No GM is dumb enough to think that a 22 year old kid who absolutely destroyed minor league pitching has low value. Especially not when you look at what he did after the all star break. Now, if Butler becomes the next Pujols then yeah, you’d be selling low at this point. But there’s no doubt you could get a damn good return on Butler at the moment. I don’t think scouts are scratching their heads, the consensus is still that the kid is going to hit. Everybody is terrified Moore is going to trade him for somebody like Neifi Perez, but the guy is way more valuable than that and other teams know it.

I follow the Tao of Steve (Balboni)

by jackie ballgame on Oct 6, 2008 1:24 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If everyone knows this (and I agree with you that they should)

Then Moore should, too. Given the Royals situation, that doesn’t make the trade any smarter unless Moore can get back a more valuable hitter — which, of course, would make the trade stupid for the other team.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 6, 2008 2:13 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Butler is still a valuable piece

but, yeah, his value is relatively down. The problem with trading him, as noted, is that a team trading for him is not going to give up as good of a young hitter in return. At best, the Royals might get a not-as-good hitter who can play a position other than DH.

by Gopherballs on Oct 6, 2008 6:38 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nice to know that my head isn't totally up my ass today

thanks again

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 6, 2008 9:57 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think Greinke is worth discussing

It would take a lot to get Dayton to trade him, but there are definitely indications that several teams are asking about him.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 6, 2008 1:31 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Rosenthal

said that the Rangers offered a " big package" of players for Greinke in July but were turned down. I would think if he won’t sign a long term contract before the winter meetings, then that would be a perfect time to trade him.

by gordonrules on Oct 6, 2008 2:08 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1

Start with Chris Davis, either Teagarden or Saltalamacchia, and get one other guy (John Mayberry Jr. any good? LEGACY [of drunkenness])

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 6, 2008 2:14 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

a pitcher

Eric Hurley has fly ball tendencies that would play well at Kaufman (non fly balls hit in Guillen’s direction division). Plus Hurley was HS teammates with Butler, which adds more COOL factor to the team.

Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.

by doublestix on Oct 6, 2008 2:25 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Don't tell Dayton they're friends

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 6, 2008 2:26 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Through in Guillen for Blalock

The Royals’ (alleged) steroid guy for the Rangers (rumored) steroid guy.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 6, 2008 2:27 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

"through" = "throw"

agin, greatt pying frome

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 6, 2008 2:28 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Its all about bloodlines

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 6, 2008 2:33 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oh yeah

Elvis Andrus should be in the mix. Something like Andrus or Davis, then one out of Andrus/Davis/Teagarden/Salty/MaxRam group, then a slightly lesser guy like Mayberry or a pitcher

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 6, 2008 2:25 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Davis, MaxRam, and a mid-level throw-in for Greinke

If we can’t get ZG signed to an extension this winter, I would do that deal in a heartbeat.

by DarthYoshi on Oct 6, 2008 4:48 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

From what I gather at lonestarball

Davis seems to be the sticking point among Ranger fans. They don’t want him included. Seems their best offer would be Andrus/Salty/Hurley or something similar. They seem to think this was the offer that occurred in July. Salty and Hurley would immediately join the Royals. I would think Andrus would spend the year in AAA. I would be inclined to ask for one more piece, maybe Mayberry Jr. or Bourbon. If they gave that us 4 for 1 with those players I would have no problems trading Zack.

by gordonrules on Oct 6, 2008 9:49 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I personally have to stay away from the "fans of one team negotiating a trade with the fans of another team"

for one thing, it makes my head hurt

then my fragile nerd ego is mushed down for spending so much time on a fake trade (even faker than fantasy)

then my ribs hurt from laughing at the absurdity of the whole thing

I suppose that’s why we’re all here, but you have to admit, when it crosses the line from “do you guys think this will happen, from what you know about [your team’s GM]” to “we’re not doing that trade, [Player X] really got lucky in AA!,” we’re definitely in some pretty stereotypical territory.


Worst trade offer ever!

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 6, 2008 10:02 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Andrus/Salty/Hurley is a horrible offer

Three non-impact players for Greinke? Pass

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Oct 6, 2008 10:06 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1

Andrus isn’t a bad prospect, but another light-hitting infielder is one of the last things the Royals need right now.

by DarthYoshi on Oct 6, 2008 10:23 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

According to Sickels

Andrus, Hurley (or Harrison) and Salty (or Teagarden) are all B+ prospects. Do you know how many of our prospects were rated as high as a B+? 1-Moose. Maybe Cortes and Duffy make a B+ this year or maybe not. But to say 3 B+ prospects is a horrible offer for Greinke is a little harsh. I think the vast majority of Royals fan overestimate what GMDM will be able to get in return for Greinke.

by gordonrules on Oct 7, 2008 12:06 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

B+ prospects in general are ok

But all of those either have serious question marks or are not what the Royals need. Let’s go through these one-by-one:

Andrus is a decent prospect, but not what the Royals most need. The Royals need a power bat, which Andrus patently is not. Offensively, he is basically a faster version of Alberto Callaspo. Does that excite you much? Didn’t think so.

Hurley got dinged badly this year. Part of that is because he is a flyball pitcher who (at least in the bigs) was pitching in a hitter’s park, but 5 HR’s in 25 major league IP is a pretty bright red flag. But more importantly, his AAA stats actually regressed from 2007 to 2008—his H/9, HR/9, and BB/9 all increased, and so despite an uptick in his K/9 rate, he was not especially effective this year.

Salty has sucked pretty badly since he got to the bigs, and his shortened 2008 line is extremely disappointing for someone who was the centerpiece of the Mark Teixeira trade. I doubt he would be enough of an offensive upgrade over John Buck to justify trading Greinke.

Teagarden had an absolutely abysmal season this year, and Sickels had him at a B+ before that all happened. I would be stunned if Sickels rates Teagarden higher than a B for 2009, and like Salty, I don’t think he’d represent such an upgrade over Buck to be worth Zack.

I don’t really know enough about Harrison at this point.

Basically, point is, B+ prospects are probably pretty good, but we shouldn’t trade for them simply because they are B+ prospects. We should trade for them if they fill a need and improve areas that need to be improved. Chris Davis represents the prospect in the Rangers system most likely to do that, which is why I have been so adamant that he be the centerpiece of any prospects-for-Greinke trade to the Rangers.

by DarthYoshi on Oct 7, 2008 12:31 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1

The trade would need to center around Davis and one of the catchers. I see Andrus as a third wheel, so to speak. He wouldn’t fill a Royals on the MLB level like the other guys would, but he would have value as a good prospect only a year or two away from the majros at a position at which the Royals have close to zero organzational depth — although I admit my knowledge of the system is spotty — correct me if I’m wrong, all.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 7, 2008 12:40 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Our SS depth is lame

2B is loaded though, for better or worse.

Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.

by doublestix on Oct 7, 2008 12:45 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I am increasingly confident that Aviles can be a serviceable SS defensively

and German or Callaspo can at least fill in when Aviles needs a day off.

But after that, our SS depth is pretty durned awful.

I’m torn about Andrus—he’s not a bad prospect by any means, but his earliest ETA to the majors is probably mid-2010, by which point I imagine something else could be done to address the lack of depth.

Davis + Andrus + throw-in is a trade that I would certainly consider, though, even though I think focusing on Davis + one of the catchers might be the better move—after Buck and B. Pena, our organization depth at catcher is at least as thin as it is at SS.

by DarthYoshi on Oct 7, 2008 12:57 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

speaking of hurley

anyone remember the moonshot Gordon hit off of him AT Kaufman? There’s a ball that no park would hold in.

Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.

by doublestix on Oct 7, 2008 12:46 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Agreed

One impact player must be included or no deal. Davis would be that impact player.

I don’t see why so many Royals fans are intent on landing Andrus or some other shortstop. Didn’t we learn the lesson of Carlos Beltran? Don’t tie yourself down to getting a certain position – get the best players available.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 7, 2008 9:46 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm not intent on getting him

I’m just looking that Rangers’ prospects. think the trade centers on Davis + catcher, as those are the better guys. ANdrus is also good as a third guy, and looking at one guy who fills a need isn’t bad on the “back end” of a trade.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 7, 2008 11:16 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I generally agree with you on this one

However, I think that Davis + one of the catchers + Andrus is probably too steep a price for the Rangers to be willing to pay. I think we should get Davis + either one of the catchers OR Andrus, but probably not both. I’m not head over heels for Teagarden, but I do think we should go for him over Andrus. I just think that if that is the case, we won’t get Andrus. Which I can live with.

by DarthYoshi on Oct 7, 2008 11:58 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

For 2 months of Texiera

the Rangers got Saltalacchia, Andrus, Neftali Feliz, Matt Harrison, and Beau Jones. Their stats (from this article):
    * Elvis Andrus- SS AA (20)- .296, 19 2B, 4 HR, 65 RBI, 53 SB
    * Matt Harrison- SP Majors (22)- 6-3, 5.67 ERA, 22 K/23 BB
    * Beau Jones AA SP/RP (22)- 2-1, 3.80 ERA, 9.0 K/9
    * Neftali Perez AA SP (21)- 6-3, 2.52 ERA, 10.2 K/9
    * Jarrod Saltalamacchia C/1B Majors (23)- .254, 13 2B, 3 HR, 26 RBI, 60 Games

Compare that to two years of Grienke. The Royals should receive far and away more than the Rangers got for Texiera.

2 years of legit Cy Young talent >> 2 months of legit offensive MYP talent.

by BrRoyal on Oct 7, 2008 1:26 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Like it or not, though,

Teixeira had more of a track record when the Rangers flipped him than Greinke does now. Getting five prospects for Greinke is probably not going to happen—Greinke isn’t Johan Santana yet, even though he may have the ceiling to be.

Two impact prospects plus a throw-in or two seems like a fair price for Greinke. Three impact prospects and any number of throw-ins probably will cause any potential trading partner to balk.

by DarthYoshi on Oct 7, 2008 1:53 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Zack is a legitimate staff ace in the making

Rangers fans need to realize that in order to get a future superstar, they have to be willing to give up a future superstar. I seriously hope that Andrus/Salty/Hurley is not their best offer.

by DarthYoshi on Oct 6, 2008 10:31 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

what if they add David Murphy??///??????///slash

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 6, 2008 10:41 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

jeez

well, if they go and do that, i might just have to throw in Soria, DDJ, and Meche just to make the deal more fair for both sides.

by DarthYoshi on Oct 6, 2008 10:46 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

St Louis would make a perfect trading partner for Soria

I don’t think they are necessarily tied to Chris Perez as their future closer, although he showed some promise in that role. Most Card fans would tell you the bullpen cost them the post season, and that with their good offense and an improved rotation next season (assuming Carpenter and Wainright return from injuries), they need only improve their pen to possibly be co-favorites with the Cubs next season.

I was thinking Soria and Guillen for Chris Perez, Colby Rasmus, and perhaps one or two additional B+ or A- prospect. Ramirez could close for KC, Perez would be valuable setup man, and Royals upgrade their outfield considerably. Rasmus is supposed to be a can’t miss, and a good defensive CF to boot, allowing DDJ to move to LF. Addditional benefit would be freeing up 12m for FA acquisitions.

Would this be asking too little or too much in that trade?

by loyal2sdad on Oct 6, 2008 2:14 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

C Brian Anderson as a third player

Still not sure I make that deal, but I’m interested..

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 6, 2008 2:34 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

depends on how much of guillen's salary the cards would be willing to eat

Keep in mind that Soria is signed to a very club-friendly contract for a long period of time as well. If we could get the Cards to get us off the hook for a decently sized chunk of Guillen’s salary, and the Cards threw in another B-level prospect (I’m not big on Bryan Anderson—I’m not convinced he’s going to be any sort of an upgrade than John Buck OPS wise), I would give some serious consideration to that deal.

by DarthYoshi on Oct 6, 2008 4:46 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

As a Cardinal fan...

I would not take that deal. I would not hesitate laughing in DMGM’s face (or ear over the phone…)

Soria is no where worth the closer of the future and the team’s top 2 prospects (if Anderson is included as RoyalsRetro suggests below).

Add onto that, the Cards have 5 or 6 outfielders that we are prepared to use next year…all younger, with more potential, than Jose Guillen. That pretty much means it’s a salary dump for you guys. Since it is a salary dump for the Royals, that should help what the Cards would give up, not hurt it.

by stlfan on Oct 10, 2008 1:11 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

On Dejesus

I think that Dejesus should be looked to move even though I really like the guy. But I don’t think he should be moved for something that is necessarily ready now. I think it could help us in the long run if we looked to trade him for a talented AA/AAA guy. If we are looking for major-league ready upgrades, then I don’t see Dejesus bringing that in. I do see him bringing in a guy that could be an upgrade over time.

That is just my personal opinion.

by I need more Esteban on Oct 6, 2008 2:40 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I sorta agree

I only think we move DJ if we are bowled over by an offer. We need offense, and he’s one of our best offensive players at a premium position signed to a great contract. I would be awfully reluctant to trade such a player, even if I didn’t have a huge mancrush on David.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 6, 2008 2:46 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah, the problem with trading DeJesus is that while it might fill a hole, it also creates a huge hole

That’s why it makes sense to trade from a position of strength and depth (like pitching) not from a position of weakness and shallowness (OFers).

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Oct 6, 2008 2:51 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I just hope he gets traded before his bad attitude and loose attitude towards taking games off

infects the whole clubhouse

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 6, 2008 3:18 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's probably too late already

Gordon faked an injury so he could take a vacation for a few weeks.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Oct 6, 2008 4:40 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I would regard Soria as pretty much untouchable

I’m terrified some other team, especially the Cardinals, would convert him to starter and he would become the next Johan.

I follow the Tao of Steve (Balboni)

by jackie ballgame on Oct 6, 2008 4:52 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If the Royals can get a great return for him (and a young, cheap, dominant closer will get a great return in trade)

…then I don’t care how they use him or what he turns into. What matters is his value to the Royals and what he can do for the Royals on the field, or what he can get in trade.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Oct 6, 2008 5:05 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Minaya Is Desparate

For a closer, and is always willing to overpay for a perceived need. Do the Mets have anything worth trading for Soria?

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Oct 6, 2008 7:00 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

They kind of stripped their system in trading for Santana

They managed to keep their #1 prospect, Fernando Martinez, but he’s still just barely into AA. He’s a high ceiling prospect who is still a couple years from the majors. The real problem is that they don’t have much else to trade.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Oct 6, 2008 7:19 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

endy chavez

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 6, 2008 10:04 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's the only kind of player Moore is ever interested in

Fast, good defense, can’t hit. If only he were a Christian Brave pitcher.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Oct 6, 2008 10:07 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yikes

I thought that was pretty funny, mostly because I can’t think of any Mets nothing to do with the Braves or Christianity. Or even tool.

I couldn’t think of how to make a Tom Tango joke to go with it. Didn’t mean anything more like it. Don’t know mich of anything about Chavez except “the catch,” that Tom Tango loves his defense, and that Minaya/Robinson kept leading him off inToronto despite a sub.320 OBP…

No Christian or Braves jokes intended.

P.S. If we must go there, Endy is probably a better defender than anyone Moore has acquired, at least with the Royals. Oh wait, I forgot about the Man with the Gloaden Glove.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 6, 2008 10:46 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Chavez

is kind of what we hoped Gathright would become — a pretty good defense-first fourth outfielder. But Chavez only makes sense on an AL team with another legitimate bench bat who can play the corners.

by Gopherballs on Oct 6, 2008 11:47 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

"Endy" is also an awesome name.

Not as good as “Tom Tango,” though. He totally made that up, right?

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 7, 2008 12:29 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

additionally, all of the decent prospects the Mets have left are A/AA level pitchers

Comparatively speaking, we are quite well-stocked on pitching at those levels. I can’t see a trade happening with the Mets for Soria either, for similar reasons. If Martinez were the centerpiece of a Soria trade, then GMDM just got snookered. Big time.

by DarthYoshi on Oct 6, 2008 10:26 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 7, 2008 11:17 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That is actually

A brilliant idea

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 7, 2008 11:38 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

a good idea

I doubt it will happen, for a variety of reasons, but I can’t think of a big reason why it shouldn’t be tried.

by DarthYoshi on Oct 7, 2008 11:56 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Rangers board discussion on a Greinke deal

To gain some perspective:

Lone Star Ball: Take Greinke Off the Board?

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 7, 2008 12:19 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Interesting

Several times they mention a Bannister for Hank Blalock deal, although they think that’s probably not enough to land Bannister.

I’d reject that deal, but its not that awful to think about.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 7, 2008 12:45 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Where would the Royals play Blalock?

I don’t think he was that great on D at third, and the Royals have 2-3 guys in the 1B/DH mix (not counting Gload!).

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 7, 2008 12:56 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

1B

I don’t think he can play 3B effectively anymore. So we’d have yet another mediocre 1B to add in the mix, but this one would be making $6 million!

Actually, I think Blalock is heads and tails better than Gload, and probably better than Shealy – he would be the starter.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 7, 2008 1:22 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Better than Gload AND Shealy?

Sign me up

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 7, 2008 1:33 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Anyone Can Play

LF, no? Well, except Butler, anyway. If Blalock can get back to his 2004/2005 production, he’d be a steal for Bannister. Has he been hurt the last 2 years? I know he had surgery, but his numbers seem to have recovered, he just hasn’t played much.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Oct 7, 2008 8:00 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

True enough

If he can stay healthy through a whole season, his rate stats (adjusted for luck and stats) look pretty good. So that would be a steal for Bannister. However, he’s played 123 games in the last two seasons…

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 7, 2008 10:51 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

the Rangers fans seem pretty adamant about not dealing Davis

But I also think it would be fair for the third player in a 3-for-1 deal for Greinke to be a low-level throw-in type if the other two players were like Davis—impact players who could help the Royals immediately.

by DarthYoshi on Oct 7, 2008 1:07 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hilarious

Of course they don’t want to give up Davis… It’s like the Royals not wanting to give up, um, idunno, Zack Greinke.

“Yeah, we’ll take Andrus and Teagarden and Mayberry… but NO WAY MAN!!!!111 No Greinke!!!1111 I think Bannister + Kila + Teahen is about all u guys can expect”

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 7, 2008 1:16 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i was reading this in my pastoral counseling class

and really had to fight the urge not to start laughing out loud.

by DarthYoshi on Oct 7, 2008 1:46 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yeah, probably not a good class in which to start laughing out loud

although I imagine, if you’re anything like me, this hasn’t been the first time you’ve had to restrain yourself given the class content

I’d make more comments, but, well, this is one of those areas…

you’re at GTU, right?

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 7, 2008 1:55 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Rumor making the rounds in the comments of MLBTraderumors.com

Greinke for Fielder. Many seem to think the Royals would be getting the short end though, so it has been expanded to Greinke/Teahen for Fielder/Parra.

That would be awfully hard to pass up.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 8, 2008 10:55 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If that happens

bye-bye Butler, too. Him and FIelder on the same team… Fielder is a born DH.

No one is off the table, but I’m more and more of the thought that Teahen is less replaceable than we’ve been thinking around here. I’m not saying that’s not a good trade, but I think that given his age, likely salary, and skills (PrOPS almost as “good” as Guillen’s, better defense, younger means more chance of improvcement), and who the Royals have in their system to take his place (no one), people shouldn’t be too thrilled to see him go.

That would be a heck of a trade, though… Almost think Hardy would be the better choice, given that the Royals have Kila and Butler, and also Shealy to hold the fort down. Furcal isn’t a bad idea, but he might be too hurt and/or too expensive…

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 8, 2008 11:36 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hardy would definitely be a better choice

But Hardy has a lot of value, and I don’t see the Brewers throwing him in to that deal.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 8, 2008 11:51 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

A better choice over Fielder?

Yeah, i don’t see them throwing him in. I just hope the Royals resign Greinke. The Guillen deal is really going to haunt the Royals this offseason if we start seeing e.g. Dunn signing elsewhere for 3/48, or Juan Rivera and Eric Hinske signing short-term deals for about $5 million each.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 8, 2008 11:58 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ah, I misunderstood you

I thought you meant Fielder AND Hardy, not Fielder OR Hardy.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 8, 2008 12:03 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nah, probably equally my fault

I think I fantasized in public about it in another thread… something like Fielder-Hardy for Greinke and Butler (since DMGM seems to want Billy out of town — insert Jeff Francouer joke here).

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 8, 2008 12:07 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What about

Greinke/Butler/Teahen/Gathright/Mahay for Fielder/Parra/Hall/Weeks?

They don’t make the nine player deals like they used to.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 8, 2008 12:16 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Til 2011

One year longer than ZackAttack

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 8, 2008 11:50 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I should say

Thru 2011. After the 2011 season he is a FA.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 8, 2008 11:50 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think through 2011, although

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 8, 2008 11:50 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i would probably do Greinke/Teahen for Fielder/Parra

Although I don’t think Teahen will improve much from now—I think he’s 28 next year, so I’m pretty sure that what we’ve seen from him so far is a pretty good indicator of what he is. I’m increasingly agreeing with NYRoyal that Teahen can be a decent 300-AB super-sub for us, but I have no qualms about cutting bait on him for an opportunity like this.

by DarthYoshi on Oct 8, 2008 11:59 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oh, I agree

there’s a difference between saying that, though, and saying that he’s useless. He’s better than his numbers this year… The Royals don’t need to go out of their way to save a spot for him, but as much as it might pain people, having him start in one of the OF corners next year wouldn’t be the end of the world.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 8, 2008 12:08 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I Know It's

Irrational, but I still hold out hope for his power. As far as BA is concerned, 2008 is definitely the outlier for Teahen. He should be a .270-.280/.340-.350/.425-.450 player at least. I think 15-20 HR’s would be a reasonable expectation.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Oct 8, 2008 7:44 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hope

Hope is a good thing. Perhaps the best of things. And no good thing ever dies.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Oct 8, 2008 9:58 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Once you consider defense, Teahen has been at worst 1 run worse than Guillen, and probably better. he looks even better in comparison once you look at PrOPS. I’m not trying to slam Guillen, and just being better than Jose Guillen’s 2008 doesn’t make Teahen a good player, but I think people think in terms of images.

Even in the corner outfield, a guy who can OPS .750 with a .350 OBP has value. yeah, it would be better if he wasn’t a starter, but for the money, an below-average but above-replacement level player (once defense is factored in) is not the end of the world. That’s why I say that if Teahen can be replaced for a reasonable price, fine, but it won’t kill the Royals to start again next year and see if he breaks out or just improves. If he’ s just a utiliity guy, fine. Even if Guillen’s salary were the same, i’d pick Teahen over him due to age and athleticism, at least in the Royals situation.

Part of one of my next posts, if I ever get around posting it, is very corny, but it goes something like this: tend to think in images, as James says in the New Historical Abstract in relation to Sandberg hitting second and Grace hitting third, despite each being ideal for the other role. We see one outfielder who hits home runs and is an “RBI man,” and that must be the better corner outfielder because that’s what COs do. We see the other guy make catches, run the bases well, but he only hits 10 home runs a year. Yeah, I’d rather have Carlos Quentin back there than Mark Teahen… he may not fit the image, but he’s above replacement level, and that’s more than some other guys on the team can say. He needs to be appreciated for what he is, rather than what KC fans think he should be.

/after school special

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 8, 2008 10:38 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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