RAMRAM

It's been pointed out on the board that Ramon has in many ways been better then Soria this season. If we are for putting Soria in the rotation, what about RamRam? Keep Soria as closer and place Ramerez in the rotation? What says the board?

3 months ago BabyBlues Comment 38 comments 0 recs |

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soria is a rotation candidate because he has like a 5 pitches (ramirez has three), does not have a max effort delivery (ramirez does) and has a history of starting (ramirez does also, but his delivery would give him a 0% chance of throwing 150+ innings).

Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.

by doublestix on Oct 7, 2008 8:23 PM EDT 0 recs

+1

I’ve been one of those pointing out that Ramirez has had a better season (if you take out the leverage element) than Soria, considering fielding independent stats and number of innings. I do think he could make a good closer. But, doublestix points out the reasons that Soria can be a starter, while Ramirez can’t.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 7, 2008 10:07 PM EDT up 0 recs

+1 as well

RamRam doesn’t really have the assortment of pitches, the delivery, or the upside of Soria in a rotation spot. I love him as a reliever, but I don’t think he should start.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Oct 7, 2008 10:59 PM EDT up 0 recs

2005 Ramon threw 141 innings in 24 starts. so its better then 0%, and isn't 140 innings twice as good as 70 innings?

- If there is little downside in letting Soria start, where is the downside in having Ramirez give it a go?
- He has started before, so I would assume he knows what ajustments to make as a starter.
- A lot of starting pitchers dont rely on having 4 pitches.
- If it doesn’t work out he can go back into the bullpen.
- Once you think about it for a while, it’s really not that much different then putting Soria in the rotation, and where as Soria’s value is pretty high as a closer, Ramirez’s value would really go up if he had success as a starter.
- Even half a season starting would benefit the Royals and allow us to save a starting pitcher arm for the second half such as Rosa, and let him be in the bullpen the first half.

Go Royals!

by BabyBlues on Oct 8, 2008 12:09 AM EDT up 0 recs

It isn't a matter of us thinking that RamRam just isn't competent enough to start

…it is that, unlike Soria, his stuff is way more conducive to being the type of power reliever that great closers are often made from.

Soria has four known pitches, most likely six, and he doesn’t need to throw particularly hard to be effective. RamRam has three, which is honestly sort of charitable to say, because he relies immensely on just two of them (fastball and slider). But for RamRam’s pitches to be most effective, he HAS to throw hard with maximum effort, and if he did that, he would not last many starts at all, but even more importantly, his risk of injury would skyrocket. Closer innings aren’t that much higher leverage, but they are more valuable enough, and Ramirez would be more effective enough, that I don’t think the move would be worth it.

by DarthYoshi on Oct 8, 2008 12:05 PM EDT up 0 recs

There's no reason to believe that Ramirez would be even a decent starting pitcher

There’s a huge difference between him and Soria in that regard.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Oct 8, 2008 12:06 PM EDT up 0 recs

RamRam has already failed as a starter

I guess you could give him a second chance, but I think you’re better off giving Soria a first chance.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 8, 2008 11:07 AM EDT 0 recs

Yeah, Ramon Ramirez has great reliever stuff, but poor starter stuff

I think he’d make a poor starting pitcher.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Oct 8, 2008 12:06 PM EDT 0 recs

Since we're talking about our mutual mancrush (which, of course, dooms RamRod to a Banny-esque decline next year)

What should we make of de la Rosa’s good year in Colorado? I was never a big fan, but I think (if I’m not mistaken) you were, and it looks like you were right… DMGM’s shown he knows pitchers, and in “run value” Ramirez had a better year, but dlR is a starter, and his Fielding Independant stats would have played well as a no 3, especially in KC…

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 8, 2008 12:13 PM EDT up 0 recs

My feelings on DLR have been widely mischaracterized

Basically many people were saying in the offseason that DLR was beyond awful and needed to be DFA’d/released/crucified. I dared to say that he had enough upside to be the 11th or 12 man in the Royals pitching staff. I thought there was little chance that he’d become a good or even decent starting pitcher, but that he could be a decent or even pretty good long reliever or possibly a very good LOOGY. I think it is another case of many fans being very disappointed with a player and me just recognizing that he has some uitlity. I think most fans tend to look at the players on their team as either good or awful. There is no in between. If he isn’t genuinely good, then…off with his head!

That being said, DLR took a big step forward this season. It was a much bigger step than I expected, particularly as a starter. But this season was very uncharacteristic in DLR’s career. So is it a meaningful breakthrough season, or an unsustainable blip. I lean more towards the latter. While his walk rate remained nearly unchanged, his strikeout rate increased by more than one and a half K/9 over his previous major league career numbers (actually closer to 2 k/9). Also, his GB% went up and his FB% went down. I don’t think he’s changed that much as a pitcher in one year and I don’t think he’ll be able to keep it up, especially without the walks going up. So, I continue to think that he’s a useful pitcher — and maybe more useful than I gave him credit for last offseason — but I don’t see him as a league average or better starting pitcher going forward.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Oct 8, 2008 12:34 PM EDT up 0 recs

I seem to recall

You and I disagreeing with me saying DLR should be cut and you arguing he should not be.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 8, 2008 12:45 PM EDT up 0 recs

Didn't I say that above?

When I said:

Basically many people were saying in the offseason that DLR was beyond awful and needed to be DFA’d/released/crucified. I dared to say that he had enough upside to be the 11th or 12th man in the Royals pitching staff.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Oct 8, 2008 12:51 PM EDT up 0 recs

I am agreeing with you

Don’t assume everyone is out to get you!

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 8, 2008 1:26 PM EDT up 0 recs

Everyone IS out to get me!

But thanks for agreeing with me. :)

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Oct 8, 2008 2:28 PM EDT up 0 recs

When Everyone Is

Out to get you, paranoia is just good thinking.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Oct 8, 2008 7:23 PM EDT up 0 recs

Are you quoting someone?

That sounds familar. Maybe I’m just paranoid.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Oct 9, 2008 3:48 AM EDT up 0 recs

Don't know who for sure,

but it sure sounds like a joke from a Lewis Black act.

by loyal2sdad on Oct 9, 2008 5:19 PM EDT up 0 recs

It's A Quote

Alright, but I can’t remember who said it; maybe Woody Allen.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Oct 9, 2008 8:13 PM EDT up 0 recs

maybe if you went around the filter of the liberal media elite...

and spoke directly to the RR faithful, your views wouldn’t be mischaracterized.

Purely in jest.

by DarthYoshi on Oct 8, 2008 1:24 PM EDT up 0 recs

That is why SP and I are in favor of more debates

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Oct 8, 2008 2:31 PM EDT up 0 recs

Suppressive Person?

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 8, 2008 2:36 PM EDT up 0 recs

Don't call her that!

She’s sweet, cute, folksy, homey, gunny, shooty and drinks six-packs.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Oct 8, 2008 2:45 PM EDT up 0 recs

Hey, I'm pretty sure I'm an SP

you should be, too

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 8, 2008 2:46 PM EDT up 0 recs

She is a "true American" after all

I was born and raised in this country and yet I’m nothing like her. So if she’s a true American, what does that make me? Swedish? Albanian? Martian?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Oct 8, 2008 2:53 PM EDT up 0 recs

A False American?

We always did feel the same, We just saw it from a different point of view, Tangled up in blue.
-Bob Dylan

by Royal Kingdom on Oct 8, 2008 3:34 PM EDT up 0 recs

I think she would call me "unAmerican"

…or a commie, or a terrorist.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Oct 8, 2008 3:40 PM EDT up 0 recs

GB just hijacked the religious right to get elected

SP is actually one of them, scary! McCain may have cost himself the election with that selection.

We always did feel the same, We just saw it from a different point of view, Tangled up in blue.
-Bob Dylan

by Royal Kingdom on Oct 8, 2008 3:46 PM EDT up 0 recs

I think McCain was in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't situation"

He could either make a choice that his more conservative base liked, which would help his voter turnout and get more volunteers working on the ground game, or he could pick someone who would help him win independents/undecideds in the middle. It’s hard to imagine anyone who would have helped him with both. So he picked someone who would help him with the first. Perhaps there would have been a conservative who the right would have liked who didn’t seem so unprepared, unqualified and out of her depth.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Oct 8, 2008 3:52 PM EDT up 0 recs

didn’t seem so unprepared, unqualified and out of her depth.

Hey… don’t knock it. She might be able to get a team to the NLCS…

SP=SB

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 8, 2008 4:05 PM EDT up 0 recs

I'm A Proud

SP as well as a full blown PTS; my governor, however, is a dangerous imbecile.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKEpsrwyiLk

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Oct 8, 2008 7:32 PM EDT up 0 recs

Who the hell...

wants to be considered an American these days anyhow? Its kind of like being a Cubs fan…a mouthy, obnoxious, drunk, power drunk, overspending heathen that everyone thats not a Cubs fan hates, and wants to go to war, but doesn’t know how to win…and I’m a Cubs fan

Don't be lonesome for your heroes. Be your own hero.

by PhattStairs on Oct 13, 2008 8:22 AM EDT up 0 recs

The National League really helped him

The increased groundballs came out of nowhere. If they stick, he might stick as a back end starter in the NL. In the AL, he is a reliever (and probably a LOOGY based on his career splits).

by Gopherballs on Oct 8, 2008 1:26 PM EDT up 0 recs

Still waiting on the cycle back to the NL

being the better league, hee hee. I know it’ll happen, but it feels as if it NEVER will right now.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Oct 9, 2008 3:50 AM EDT up 0 recs

If it's a copy cat league, it won't

given that the Dodgers and the GM-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Bamed beat out all the other franchises in their division who were mom’s-basement-oriented. That definitely proves that the SB-way is better.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 9, 2008 10:51 AM EDT up 0 recs