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Five "other" offseason ideas

Couple ideas that haven't been talked about. I will withhold my "official" opinion until a bit later.

 

Boof Bonser, RHP

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via minnesota.twins.mlb.com

He's been pretty much banished to the bullpen with the Twinkies. Has pretty good stuff, can run it up there to 95. Had a good FIP this year despite a bloated ERA, mostly came from a very odd 57% strand rate. Probably wouldn't take much more than a mid level prospect to get. Could be a Davies like project with mid-rotation upside.

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Jeff Clement, C

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via www.minorleaguebaseball.com

The Mariners have some nice catching depth and might be willing to deal from a position of depth. It might require Butler, but it may be worth it. Clement has always hit, and I believe he still holds the national high school record for home runs with 75. His defense has been called into question, but it's supposedly improved enough to where he could stick behind the dish.

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Josh Willingham, OF

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via mlbplayers.mlb.com

Marlins will obviously sell off their "expensive" players, and Willingham is arbitration eligible for the first time this winter. He can hit, his average OPS the last three years has been about .840, with half his games coming at Dolphin Stadium which I believe is a pitchers park. His strikeouts went up a little this year, but his power stayed the same and he took a few more walks to keep his OBP high. Isn't that good defensively, but I don't know exactly how bad/good he is.

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Bobby Abreu, OF

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via mlb.mlb.com

A lot more of the talk around here has been for Burrell, Dunn, and Rivera, but this guy might be a decent option as a free agent as well. Probably would only be an option for me if we managed to trade Guillen, because otherwise the defense would be very bad. He is not awful defensively but Abreu is a bit below average. He is durable and a good on-base guy with a little pop.

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Chris Duncan, 1B/OF

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via mlb.mlb.com

With the emergence of other outfielders with the Cardinals and a pretty decent first baseman, Duncan could be traded (my speculation). I'd be looking at him as a RHP masher (he is awful against lefties, like TPJ awful) in a platoon role in the outfield (and maybe 1B or DH on occasion if necessary). I think he's pretty awkward in the outfield, but his career .282/.374/.519 line against RHP would make that tolerable. Do not know what it take to acquire him, should not be ridiculous though.

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I would be interested in

Clement and Willingham. Boonser meh. Abreu will require too much $$$. I was interested in Duncan earlier when the season was just beginning but it seems we have plenty of okish 1b options at this time. Saw him on tv once in the outfield-it was Butler esque.

by gordonrules on Oct 10, 2008 12:12 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Clement

I will admit I would like to have him. Though it might cost Butler like I said, that could be worth it if you think he’d stick at catcher. He can definitely hit for power and take some walks. I think he bats lefty, not sure if he has a platoon split or not.

Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.

by doublestix on Oct 10, 2008 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

well he's a lefty,

but, interestingly enough, both in his (limited) time in the majors and minors, he’s hit lefties better… now I’m interested. Don’t know what it would take, though.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 10, 2008 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

hhmmmm.

just looking at their respective neutraliaed minor league numbers… they have almost identical OPSes. Can’t see why the Mariners would do that trade, though, since if they’re equal hitters, the Mariners can always move Clement to 1B/DH if he can’t stick at catcher or the younger catchers are better or are ready soon.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 10, 2008 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Now we're talking!

I mean, I just like stuff like this…

Boof isn’t a bad idea if he comes cheap. Pitching depth is pitching depth.

are the Mariners really deep at Catcher? they did, in line with all their other brilliant moves, resign Jojhima (sp?), but he sucks ass.

How long would the Royals have control of Willingham? I know you don’t like defensive metrics, doublestix, but you asked. The stuff I’ve seen says he was decent this year, but sucked ass a la Jose Guillen last year.

I’ve got a piece I’ve been working on that involves Abreu in a minor starring role, but let’s just say that the same metrics have him as perhaps the worst defensive player in the Al this year, and one of the worst RFs last year — yeah, even worse than JoGui. He’s declining, too. I like him — despite his defensive problems, altogether he was still more than three wins better than Guillen this year. But you’re right, not doable with JoGui on the team. I see him as an RF version of Ibanez — could help a lot of teams, but maybe not the best choice for the Royals, given their situation.

Don’t know much about Duncan. The Royals could use a guy who can hit RHP, and his PrOPS make this year seem like an outlier — his 2007 and 2006 numbers seem to be for real. His defense doesn’t rate all that badly, around average, although the sample sizes are small.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 10, 2008 12:15 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Duncan seems a bit like an Eric Hinske-type

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 10, 2008 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

OMG Butler for Duncan NOW!!!!
  1. on baseball reference list of similar players?

The Mighty Quinn

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 10, 2008 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

that’s “number 10”

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 10, 2008 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

similar

although Duncan is better. his career OPS against RHP is about 80 points higher.

Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.

by doublestix on Oct 10, 2008 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

and yes

the M’s have a couple nice catching prospects behind Clement – Rob Johnson (who was in AAA this year) and Adam Moore (AA). they obviously wouldn’t give away Clement because of this, but he might be pryable (that a word?) if they could get a decent deal for them.

Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.

by doublestix on Oct 10, 2008 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What would be a decent deal?

I would guess it would take a player like DeJesus or Butler to get them to move Clement.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 10, 2008 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think that is the bare minimum of what it would take

Clement’s stock dipped some because of his poor rookie year line, but this is a catcher who has hit the tar off the ball in every level of the minors. Guys like that don’t grow on trees. Even if the M’s have a couple good catching prospects behind Clement, I wouldn’t expect that circumstance to lower their asking price much, if at all. If Butler or DDJ were the main piece in that deal, I think the M’s would probably want a throw-in as well.

by DarthYoshi on Oct 10, 2008 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Clement for Butler and Lumsden! And Gathright.

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Oct 11, 2008 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

+G-Load!!

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Oct 12, 2008 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i'll take your word for it on the defense

i suppose metrics are better than nothing. although everything i’ve read suggests Duncan is a bad defender.

we’d have Willingham for 3 years.

Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.

by doublestix on Oct 10, 2008 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Duncan is pretty badly injured...

Just so you know. That, and I think the Cardinals would want either MI or pitching instead. The Royals don’t have MI to give up because they’re trying to solve that issue themselves…so that would leave pitching.

As a Cards fan, I love Chris Duncan, but I think that the Royals could probably get away with a B- or C+ pitching prospect for Duncan, until we see if he is going to play better or not.

by stlfan on Oct 10, 2008 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My take

I’ve never been a big fan of Boof Bonser, and at best, he’d be a placeholder for one year until Rosa and/or Cortes get ticketed for full-time starting rotation duty. Despite decent stuff, he has had two back-to-back years where he was mediocre at best. Unless we end up in a position where we need starting pitching for next year (ie, we trade Greinke), then I say pass. We are not in a position where we need to give up talent for a #5 starter/long reliever.

I’d be interested in Clement, but am worried that the M’s asking price would be too high (if they are looking for prospects, I imagine they would start with someone like Moose Tacos—not Butler—and escalate from there).

Willingham is probably the only guy on this list whom I’d spend a lot of time trying to pursue. Good plate discipline and ok power. I could see him being a great #2 hitter for us. It would mean we’d have to keep DDJ in CF, but I can live with that. Not sure what the Marlins would demand for him, though, and he’ll turn 30 over the offseason, so he’ll probably start declining towards the end of the three years we’d have him. I don’t know how bad his D is.

I would stay away from Abreu, if for no other reason than he has “overpriced, declining veteran” written all over him. If we’re looking for OBP, then Willingham has almost matched Abreu for OBP in the last two years (.369 and .371 for Abreu, .364 for Willingham both years). You can see the decline in Abreu’s stats since 2004—aside from a brief bump when he joined the Yankees, his numbers have been consistently dropping, and I see no reason to think they won’t continue to do so. I also would imagine he’d want a multiyear contract, and that could very well become another albatross around GMDM’s neck (see also: J. Guillen).

As for Duncan…I’d be fine platooning him at first with Shealy and/or Butler (and subsequently releasing Ross Gload), but I would try signing Eric Hinske first—Duncan is probably the better player, but Hinske will come cheaper, and I wouldn’t want to give up much for someone who would end up being a platoon player anyways.

If I had to rank them, in order of most to least interest, it’d probably go:

Willingham
Clement
Duncan
Abreu
Bonser

by DarthYoshi on Oct 10, 2008 1:12 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'd say you have to go with Bonser earlier than that.

The guy could break out anytime. Duncan is a PED product. Abreu is getting to the point where a large contract would not be a good investment (see your thoughts on Lowe),.

Willingham
Clement
Bonser
Abreu
Duncan

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Oct 11, 2008 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I mostly agree with you

except on Bonser (where I think we’ll have to agree to disagree—I just don’t see many rays of light looking at his stats and peripherals). And there is a definite gap in my ranking between Clement and Duncan, much more so than probably any of gaps between the other five candidates.

by DarthYoshi on Oct 13, 2008 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Duncan

for those of you wondering – I get Cardinal games as well as Royals games on cable here in Jeff City, and let me assure everybody that Duncan is an absolute BUTCHER in the outfield. He is, indeed, like Butler in the outfield. He is passable at 1B, but the Royals have enough options at that position already.

I say pass on Duncan – he’s just not a good fit for our team or our ballpark.

by loyal2sdad on Oct 10, 2008 9:45 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

*if*

We could get Duncan for a reasonable ransom from the Cards and we subsequently DFAed Gload, I probably wouldn’t mind having him. He and Shealy could probably be a fairly productive 1b platoon (certainly more productive than what we had going for us this year), Butler can continue to DH, and Kila can be waiting in the wings if one of those three guys gets injured or becomes ineffective. The fact that Duncan is Butler-esque in the OF just isn’t much of a concern for me—I would never envision him playing in the OF, period.

by DarthYoshi on Oct 10, 2008 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed loyal2sdad

Duncan can catch the ball at him (even though it doesn’t look pretty) and he can get to a ball that is reasonably close and make the play…but anything that should or could be a hit…will be. If he has to go back towards the wall, it’s probably a hit.

by stlfan on Oct 10, 2008 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just a thought

Teahen and Bannister for Bonser and Jason Kubel?

For Minnesota: They land a 3B they need (assuming Teahen can play 3B regularly again). They move Cuddyer to open up a spot in the OF/DH (Young/Gomez/Span/Kubel). Cuddyer is signed through 2011, but gets expensive soon and is coming off a disappointing injury filled season. Bonser and Banny are swaps for disappointing pitcher for disappointing pitcher.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 10, 2008 10:05 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Not Kubel, I mean Cuddyer.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 10, 2008 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

seems like a decent trade

but would we trade with someone in the AL central? I remember the Sisco for Gload swap but thats the last one I can recall.

by gordonrules on Oct 10, 2008 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sounds like a good trade to me

Fair and beneficial to both teams. I don’t think Moore minds intra-division trades, particularly when we’re not talking about impact players. Moore has made multiple trades with the White Sox (Sisco-Gload, MacDougal-Cortes/Lumsden, Ramirez-Orlando).

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Oct 10, 2008 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, fleecing Kenny Williams

is not just any old “intra-division” trade.

But you gotta give the guy credit, somehow his team keeps winning despite his eagerness to trade for Royals bullpen cast-offs.

Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!

by cmkeller on Oct 10, 2008 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

"somehow"

who knew that Nick Swisher, Carlos Quentin, and John Danks would be upgrades over Scott Podsednik, Darin Erstad/Brian Anderson, and Jose Contreras?

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 10, 2008 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I dunno

I don’t think Kenny’s brilliant or anything, but I think we should at least acknowledge that he’s risen above the Colletti-esque joke stage of the Podsednick/Alomar/Everett years.

I read a rumor (and you know how reliable internet rumors are) that Kenny really likes Griffey… any hope he’ given up on the Swish?

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 10, 2008 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kenny Williams

Even I will admit that in addition to his truly stupid moves, he’s made some very shrewd, intelligent moves. I think he’s risen out of the bottom quarter of GM’s. Maybe even out of the bottom third.

Even if he wants to trade Swisher, he recognizes that he still has significant trade value. So even if he’s gettable, it would cost a pretty penny in talent.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Oct 10, 2008 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's gonna happen

I’m just going to keep wishing until my dreams come true

I’m sure there’s a joke in here about economic policy…

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 10, 2008 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have to ask the tough question

I’d love to have Swisher. He’s good and cheap through 2012. But what would you give up for him?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Oct 10, 2008 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not what it would take, probably

Like I said, I know I’m dreaming.

Individually, I’d give up

Butler. But the Sox are set with sluggardly sluggers already. Probably not fair to them, either/

DDJ. Probably still better on defense than Swisher. Yeah, the Royals wouldn’t have anyone to replace DDJ, whom I love. But if DDJ has really lost a step, it wouldn’t be as much of a defensive downgrade as people think. The Sox could use a CF.

He wouldn’t do it by himself, I guess throwing in Guillen and a chunk of his salary would help, but, again, why would the Sox do that? They’ve already got better guys in the corners, so where would Guillen play?

Maybe they like Kyle Davies now? I dunno, combine him with either Butler or DDJ. That might not work for either team — maybe a bit too much for the Royals, no place to play for the guy the Sox get.

Are they getting sick of Bobby Jenks? If Soria’s going to close, well… I actually think a “closer-only” Soria straight up for Swisher might be good for the Royals. Even if one thinks that, context-free, Soria is more valuble, the Royals have replacements for him, while not having any corner outfielders remotely as valuble as Swisher, either in the majors or in their system

I guess the Soria option seems the most doable, and Kenny has traded for closers in his ugly past… but they do have Jenks

Just trying to think of a way the Royals could get a good young OF and I can’t. Swisher just seemed like a gy who might be “down” in value

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 10, 2008 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sounds good

I have a feeling Williams would like to have DDJ. He likes OF defense and Quentin and Dye could certainly use an above average defensive CFer. And I believe there have been rumors of KW being interested in DDJ before. So it would take DDJ+ to get Swisher. DDJ + Davies? Maybe, but that seems a little light. I think KW would require more. Their minor league system has been stripped clean. Maybe a good prospect would help. DDJ + Davies + Rosa? I think that’s fair. That would certainly cause the Royals some pain. But the pain would be lessened dramatically if Soria moved to the rotation.

Soria for Swisher would be fair and I’m all for it. But the Chisox don’t need a closer and I don’t think they think they need one either.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Oct 10, 2008 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Soria for Swisher would be fair????

Not in my world it wouldn’t be.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 10, 2008 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Unfortunately, you aren't the one making personnel decision for the Royals

In this case, I wish you were.

But if DMGM really doesn’t want to try Soria in the rotation, for whatever reason, then Swisher is fair, given the Royals corner outfield situation.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 10, 2008 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe you're right

Swisher is a good defensive corner OFer (and a below average defensive CFer) who is a good hitter with a high OBP. The numbers show he was very unlucky this season. And he’s young, cheap and under contract through 2012 (actually through 2011 with a team option for 2012).

Do you think Soria for Swisher is too much for the Royals to give up, or too much for the Sox to give up? What do you think Soria’s value on the trade market is? Quite frankly, I’m not sure. I’m interested in what everyone thinks.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Oct 10, 2008 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

DMGM admitted that there are those in the

organization that think that Soria should be a starter, which would lead me to believe that there are like-minded people in other orgs. Is it possible that some of these people might actually overvalue him as a starter and give up a solid corner guy?

I tend to think that Moore would really have to be floored to move Soria, though.

We always did feel the same, We just saw it from a different point of view, Tangled up in blue.
-Bob Dylan

by Royal Kingdom on Oct 10, 2008 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is it possible that some of these people might actually overvalue him as a starter and give up a solid corner guy?

I think an elite, dominant, inexpensive closer who is under contract for multiple years is worth a solid corner guy, even if no one thought he could ever be a starter. I think closers are valued that highly by most GM’s. (solid corner guy not a great corner guy). I’m sure some GM’s see Soria as a potential starter, which would only increase his value, but probably not increase it greatly.

Unfortunately, I don’t think Moore is interested in trading Soria either.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Oct 10, 2008 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

GMs are crippled by fear when it comes to very popular players

If they never trade them, everyone is always happy.

If they trade them and it doesn’t pan out, they are cursed up and down.

We always did feel the same, We just saw it from a different point of view, Tangled up in blue.
-Bob Dylan

by Royal Kingdom on Oct 10, 2008 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

True

But when you have a long history of losing, a GM should just say fuck it and do whatever he thinks will lead to more wins and getting his team into the playoffs, no matter what the fans think. There would be a fan backlash if the Royals traded Greinke or Soria. But if it leads to more wins, the backlash would evaporate and turn into a lovefest.

In a minor defense of Moore, I would say that his reluctance to trade Soria is because he thinks it would be best for the team to keep him, not because he’s afraid of fan backlash. Of course, the real problem is that he thinks it is best for the Royals to keep him as a closer, rather than trade him for something more valuable. Or maybe he wants to pump up Soria’s value with another season of dominant closing before trading him. There’s a case to be made for maximizing Soria’s value before trading him closer to the time the Royals will be contending.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Oct 10, 2008 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is exactly right

and understandable. See what happened to DePodesta after his good trades.

Still, this is exactly what I mean about a lack of imagination from GMs. I should have added lack of balls (won’t be able to say that if Kim Ng gets hired by Seatlle).

I remember us talking about this with respect to Soria, and Gopherballs hit the nail on the head whe he said that “fans would forgive as the first time Nick Markakis went deep” or something ilke that.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 10, 2008 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If the Royals have to give up DDJ

and a bit more, I’d say try to get Brian Anderson back, too. Not that I think he could start, but he’s a hell of a CF defender. Can’t hit that well, although his PrOPS for the last three years aren’t horrible — all over .700 OPS. He’d be a nice fourth outfielder — late inning defensive sub, unless people think MITCH can be an equally good defender for less money and might be able to OPS .680…

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 11, 2008 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

why not just swap Cuddyer for Teahen straight up?

Just curious. I get the feeling that Bonser and Banny have roughly equal trade value (maybe Banny has a little more by way of his 2007 line, but both sides would still be selling low).

by DarthYoshi on Oct 10, 2008 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Some uncommitted thoughts on Teahen vs. Cuddyer

I thought that the Royals should have been trying to trade Teahen to the Twins since after the 2006 season, when Teahen was at a high point, value-wise as young, good hitting 3B. Perhaps the Royals could have gotten Scott Baker or even that “bad egg” Matt Garza. And the Twins haven’t had a decent 3B since Corey Koskie.

Cuddyer will be 30 next year, Teahen will be 27.

Cuddyer/Teahen PrOPS the last three seasons:

2008: .739/.743
2007: .786/.706
2006: .843/.807

Cuddyer’s a rightly who does have a bit of a platoon split, but it’s not on a “par” with Alex Gordon or Jose Guillen. Careeer .281/.371/441 vs. lefties, .261/.331/.441 vs. righties.

Cuddyer’s small sample size of defense in RF wasn’t good this year, and his RZR/OOZ translations from 2007 are slighty better than Bobby Abreu and silghtly worse than Jose Guillen. Significantly worse than Teahen in the field both years. Seems like a heard a rumor about Minnesota moving him back to third — can’t imagine that he’d be much better there.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 10, 2008 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cuddyer was one of the runners up to Guillen on player playing most out of position

The idea was that Cuddyer should be playing 3B, not the OF. Cuddyer’s contract is reasonable for a corner outfielder/infielder, and is their one decent right-handed bat, so I doubt the Twins would be very motivated to move him.

by Gopherballs on Oct 10, 2008 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh uh... better not risk it

things could get ugly if he comes to the Royals… Who would play third? Who is making the biggest sacrifice by playing out of position? Would Guillen constantly find an excuse to shove his trophy in Cuddyer’s face?

CONFUSION IN THE CLUBHOUSE

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 10, 2008 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good List of Targets

Bonser would be a nice gamble. The one thing keeping Bonser from being a solid middle of the rotation starter is his HR rate. The K would help the HR rate, but it suppresses HRs at a rate only a little better than the Metrodome. He is from the Gil Meche school of decent control/bad command pitchers, but with lower upside due to the not quite as good raw stuff.

Clement is the right idea, but I doubt he would be available. The Mariners are in full tilt rebuild mode, and would be looking to acquire players like Clement, not trade them away. As Mr. Fingers noted above, if Clement does not stick at catcher, he can move to 1B or DH (both of which are currently vacant). Plus, as the only team with an open GM job, their list of interviewees is quite impressive, so they are pretty much guaranteed to get a very good GM who should know better than to keep their other catchers over Clement.

Willingham would be a nice pickup, but would not come cheap. The one concern is that he will already be age 30 by opening day, so he might have already played his best seasons.

Abreu would need to DH the majority of the time, and while he profiles as the type of hitter who can remain productive in to his late 30s, I would bet some other team significantly overspends on him. If his price falls (particularly the number of years), he could be a good signing.

I like Duncan, but he is strictly a platoon hitter. He probably would need to move 1B eventually, but he could stick in LF for the short term. He is kind of like Emil Brown in that his defensive miscues tend toward the spectacular, but his overall defense is solid.

by Gopherballs on Oct 10, 2008 12:54 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Clement may be a man without a postion

Clements defensive problems at C have always had him on the verge of being moved to 1st.

Now would he be worth the prospects as a DH or 1st baseman is the true question…

by laxtonto on Oct 10, 2008 1:21 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I would bet if freed from catching

Clement would have a quick offensive bump — maybe not as much as Mike Sweeney did, but notable.

by Gopherballs on Oct 10, 2008 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, maybe

My pojnt was more that the Mariners should demand more than just Billy Butler for him

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 10, 2008 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 10, 2008 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You disagree with everybody, all the time

jerk

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Oct 10, 2008 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No I don't!!!!

(bang crash)

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 10, 2008 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Royals will only be able to upgrade one position through FA

so if it is Abreu, He will be expensive probably more than Guillen. Love the OBP and willingness to take the walk. Hope that patience would rub off on some of the others.

Willingham is a guy I have been interested in seeing what it would take – perhaps a package with Scott Olson. Florida would be looking for cheap ML players or prospects. They like young arms which KC has. If they move arbitration eligible players, Marlins will have holes at 2B, OF and pitching.

Clement would cost KC at least one of our top 5 minor league guys so that is a bit of wash. Don’t think Seattle will trade him.

Bonser hasn’t ever done anything for me. Just don’t see it. Duncan is the minor league type that KC needs to consider plugging into a platoon or bench role.

by daveyork on Oct 10, 2008 1:45 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

This Twins blogger

Feels the Twins should deal Kubel for Robinson Tejada, RamRam or Leo Nunez.

http://twinsguy1.blogspot.com/2008/10/trade-jason-kubel_06.html

I doubt the Twins are this stupid, but if they want Tejada or Kubel, I’d be all over that like white on rice.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 10, 2008 3:39 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Tejeda for Kubel would be a dream trade

Kubel is basically just a platoon player, but he’s the better part of a platoon. I kind of like Tejeda, but I’d happily give him up for Kubel.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Oct 10, 2008 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Twins are pretty stupid

Would the Royals be willing to part with Tejada AND Gathright?

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 10, 2008 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The NEW Twins are pretty stupid

The old GM regime did a great job of acquiring and developing young talent. The new group isn’t so great. Tejeda+Gathright for Kubel sounds delicious. Would you trade Nunez for Kubel straight up? And by “you,” I mean d_f, Retro, anybody.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Oct 10, 2008 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Probably

Considering how good DM has been at finding relievers, considering Nunez’s small frame and proclivity towards injury, and considering how badly we need an OF bat that can club 20 homers and slug .450, yea, I’d do that trade. And I’m a Nunez fan.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 10, 2008 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh hell yes

I’d even do Ramram for Kubel straight up, again, because the Royals have other relievers. They don’t have corner outfielders. Despite his platoon issues, Kubel would be at least the 3rd best hitter on the 2009 Royals (not adjusted for position_, behind Gordon and DDJ, and maybe better than DDJ because of his power.

Heck, maybe getting away from the Twins hitting coach and non Mauer/Morneau players might make a bit of difference. I’m not sure, but I’m pretty sure that guys on the team get fined for every pitch they take.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 10, 2008 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Team Ramrod!!!!!!!!!111

How dare you, sir.

I’d be hesitant to trade Ramirez for Kubel straight up, but I’d certainly consider it. I’d do Tejeda or Nunez for Kubel. Or even Tejeda+Nunez for Kubel.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Oct 10, 2008 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hey, you dumped Banny

I can’t believe that you’re moving in on my man.

Tejada + Nunez, oh yeah. Tejada, like Ho-Ram, is one of those weird things that gives me faith in DMGM — pick up a spare part, maybe he makes a small contribution, maybe pick uo something likely better than free for him later. I hardly see that as more than just Nunez alone.

There’s no way the Twins would do that, right? They have nothing after Morneau and Mauer other than Kubel. Delmon Young’s offensive and defensive contributions this year make Billy Butler’s 2008 seem like a thrilling breakout.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 10, 2008 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You might be undervaluing Tejeda

I don’t mean undervaluing his trade value, but undervaluing his value as a pitcher going forward. His 2008 numbers:

FIP 3.95 (fangraphs)
FIP 3.66 (THT)
xFIP 4.30
tRA 3.28

Those are all good. The tRA is especially spectacular. He’s a classic case of a guy who simply can’t start, but he can be a genuinely good reliever. He’s a strikeout machine. Too many walks, but that isn’t a huge problem for a reliever. I don’t think those numbers are a fluke either. He’s got some great stuff and poor control. He doesn’t have the pitches or control to be a starter. But he’s good in the pen. I think Tejeda has at least pretty good setup man written all over him.

There’s no way the Twins would do that, right? They have nothing after Morneau and Mauer other than Kubel.

They’ve got a logjam in the OF. It would make sense for them to move somebody. There is no obvious choice for who should go. I think the problem with the deal isn’t that they wouldn’t trade Kubel. It’s that they may not be looking for relievers in exchange for him. Even if they were, I don’t know that they’d think Nunez+Tejeda is enough.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Oct 10, 2008 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah, I don't think the Twins need much bullpen help

Joe Nathan is still dominant, and Liriano and Crain were pretty good setup guys for him last year. Both Nunez and Tejeda profile as later inning setup guys, and the Twins are mostly set there, I think.

by DarthYoshi on Oct 10, 2008 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You are right about Tejada

That might be a bit too much, but not all that overdone, given the Royals dreadful OF situation.

It would be just like this Twins to choose Cuddyer over Kubel. They can’t give up on Delmon now, but looking at his numbers… yikes… Good thing he’s only 22.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 10, 2008 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What do you think Kubel will develop into?

So far in his minor league career, he’s been a below average corner OFer with extreme platoon splits making him only effective against RHP, and he’s 26 right now. Is that what you see from him going forward? Or do you think he’s going to develop into an average or below average corner OFer who can hold his own against lefties as well as righties?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Oct 10, 2008 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm probably overvaluing him a little

His platoon splits are big, but as you pointed out, he’s got the “good” one.

I think he probably will be better than he is right now (although it’s hard to tell, given the way the Twins jerked him around in 2006 and 2007), although not tons better.

Like I said, while I’m probably overvaluing him, I think he’s more likely, going forward, to be able to OPS over 800 regularly than any other outfielder the Royals have, even with his splits (even DDJ, although DDJ has the positional advantage and is an overall better player and stuff). The Royals just don’t have anyone like that.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 10, 2008 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He certainly has value

I think he will continue to improve. He’ll start the season still at age 26 and turn 27 in May. He may have hit his peak, but I think players that age with the amount of MLB experience he’s had usually improve some. But I would guess that his likely ceiling is a league average corner OFer. Or he could make a great larger part of a platoon (if a manager were smart enough to use him that way). I do think he’s better than Cuddyer, but I don’t think the Twins agree. I wonder what the Twins needs are. If I were GM, I’d at least feel them out. Every year it is easy to find some some cheap RH corner OFer on the FA market who can basically only hit LHP well. Pair him with Kubel and you’ve got a potentially great corner OF platoon on the cheap.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Oct 10, 2008 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gomes!

(Yes, I will use any excuse to bring up Jonny Gomes. So much to lvoe there, the ugly face, the home runs, the Keeping-JoGui-In-Line factor, the chances of him breaking A. J. Pierzinski in half…)

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 10, 2008 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bobby Kielty would be a cheap acquisition

The only thing he does well is hit lefties. He’d be dirt cheap and a very effective platoon partner with someone like Kubel.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Oct 10, 2008 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ditto Kevin Mench

Signed, your friend Allard.

In all seriousness though…yes. Mench OPS vs LHP = .900

Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.

by doublestix on Oct 10, 2008 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

kubel for nunez straight up.

done.

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Oct 11, 2008 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

well

if were talking Teahen for Cuddyer, why not Teahen + reliever for Kubel? Actually, Mahay might make sense to throw in, although you’d also essentially be throwing in another prospect since Mahay should be a type B free agent.

Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.

by doublestix on Oct 11, 2008 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nunez was good enough to fetch Bradley in 07,

so after posting another good year in 08, could he fetch even more than Kubel? Interesting, because Bradley is arguably BETTER than Kubel.

Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!

by loyal2sdad on Oct 10, 2008 4:37 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

modification: Nunez was good enough to fetch a two-month rental of Bradley in 07

I’m pretty sure Bradley would’ve become an FA. Correct me if I’m wrong.

by DarthYoshi on Oct 10, 2008 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What DarthYoshi said

and Bradley, even if he only DHs (as Kubel arguably should), is WAY better than Kubel, even with all the games he missed this season.

Like him or hate him, Bradley is an awesome hitter. If the Royals were one hitter away from contending, a short deal for him would be really smart.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 10, 2008 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would say that he's 1/2 of an awesome hitter

He’s an awesome hitter when he plays, but he’s a part-time player. Over the last 4 years, he’s averaged 314 AB’s per season. That’s basically half of an everyday player’s number of AB’s.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Oct 10, 2008 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, I agree

but that’s what’s scary — in run value, just how valuble he’s been. And if DHing/not having to be restrained by coaches keep him healthy, so much the better. The PAs are a problem, yes, but think about how valuble he is thos short times, past 4 seasons (including 2008)

bRAA by year
2005: 9.9 (in 315 PAs — better than Aviles did in his lucky year this year in 441)
2006: 13.7
2007: 15.9
2008: 38.5

I’m not saying he doesn’t have problems, he obviously does. But he puts up above average numbers even when he’s playing barely half a season. His injury problems are why I say he’s a good bet for a team that just needs something to push them over the edge into contention and have a spot open. The Blue Jays, for example, could have used him as a DH this year and might have gotten into the playoffs.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 10, 2008 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

But he creates dissension in the clubhouse

Your precious numbers don’t take that into account.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Oct 10, 2008 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Chris Duncan is having experimental cervical spine surgery,

his prospects for coming back are unknown. His reputation on defense is worse than his actual defense, but like I said, who knows if he will be back. Also, the cardinals have a good catching prospect named Anderson who’s blocked by Yadier Molina. He gets included in almost every trade proposal on VEB. The need pitching and MI though, and they think the Royals would give up Greinke (hah!).

Boof Bonser looks like the next Kip Wells to me. If the minnesota pitching coaches can’t get him throwing that ball over the plate, I doubt he ever will.

Clement seems overhyped and mostly gets news because he isn’t Kenji Johjima.

Abreu should stay in NY where he can at least pass for a below average defender. In KC he would probably look significantly worse.

Willingham is probably a good idea, and could even be a good deal, but with so many corner OF/1b types aren’t you running out of room?

Space.

It's a problem we face.

So we never go anywhere.

We just stay in one place.

by hazel on Oct 11, 2008 3:55 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

response

I did not know that about Duncan. I still think he’d be an interesting buy low guy if he turns out to be fine, but who knows…

This quote was great…

“If you were the Royals GM and were offered Rick Ankiel, Brian Anderson and Clay Mortensen from the Cardinals for Greinke, would you do it?”

“Lop-Sided deal
In KC’s favor. All those position players for one good young starting pitcher? No, thanks. Greinke’s good, but A) he’s not that good, B) one tendon tear and the deal is a bust, and C) Duncan has a better track record with veteran starters.”

WAHAHAHA. Would loooooooooooove to see the reaction to what it would really take on the Cards part.

Bonser’s problem isn’t so much strikes as it is quality strikes. You are right though, it is likely that he would be a bust after a trade. But if you can get a guy with quality stuff for almost nothing, than ya should jump on the opportunity.

Also, I don’t see many corner OF types on this team. I see Guillen, and maybe Teahen but I don’t even count him. Willingham is probably the guy I want most out of this list.

Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.

by doublestix on Oct 11, 2008 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well my corner OF/1B list counted Butler and Shealy as well.

Also, that quote was TOTALLY INSANE. I remember reading that post and just dying a little inside because of the faith lost in humanity. How. In. The. Hell. Does. That. Make. Sense.

Anyway, more targets. The rangers are supposedly shopping their hot catching prospects, and since there are three of them, you can take your pick. I think Saltalamacchia is the highest-rated, but he really has looked like crap over the last year, so perhaps his stock has fallen.

Space.

It's a problem we face.

So we never go anywhere.

We just stay in one place.

by hazel on Oct 11, 2008 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't know which one I'd pick

Saltalamacchia was playing with some sort of minor injury all year, though

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 11, 2008 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, I hadn't heard that.

Space.

It's a problem we face.

So we never go anywhere.

We just stay in one place.

by hazel on Oct 11, 2008 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

By the way,

the actual trade that it would take to get Greinke would have to look something like the Haren/Beckett deals and would START with the cards best prospect, CF Colby Rasmus.

Space.

It's a problem we face.

So we never go anywhere.

We just stay in one place.

by hazel on Oct 11, 2008 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

no doubt

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Oct 11, 2008 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Colby Rasmus

Plus C Brian Anderson, P Chris Perez, 100 shares of Belgian-owned Anheuser-Bush, four of the Best Fans in Baseball, and Whitey Herzog, and I’d pull the trigger.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 11, 2008 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

+Stan the Man

as Jose Guillen’s “Legs”

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Oct 11, 2008 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Would you pull the trigger for...

C Anderson, OF Ludwick, and one of the top minor league SP in the Cards system, though?

by stlfan on Oct 12, 2008 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh...

and I already know…Texas has a better offer on the table apparently. So assume the Cards are the only ones talking to the Royals on this one.

by stlfan on Oct 12, 2008 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

probably not

if I was assured Ludwick would continue to be really good, then sure, but color more skeptical of a guy randomly breaks out like that at age 30.

hazel is pretty much right on. the package would likely have to include rasmus, or it’d have to be absolutely loaded with quantity. and i’d have a tough time accepting a “quantity” package.

Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.

by doublestix on Oct 12, 2008 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Off the top of my head,

It would probably have to be rasmus, anderson, mortensen, and tyler greene.

The problem is the Royals can’t trade their ace and expect to win next year so there is no point in trading for Ludwick or Ankiel.

Space.

It's a problem we face.

So we never go anywhere.

We just stay in one place.

by hazel on Oct 12, 2008 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

Trades that revolve (even in part) around players like Ludwick or Ankiel are going to be shot down for precisely this reason.

I also agree that any Greinke trade talk between the Royals and the Cards should start with Rasmus and go from there. Greinke is worth at least two elite prospects plus a decent throw-in.

Stlfan—in your mind, is Rasmus off the table? I would certainly consider a package, say, of Rasmus, Jaime Garcia, and Allen Craig, which would fit my mildly warped notion of how much Greinke is worth. But in the end, I think you’re going to have a hard time convincing us to consider a trade that doesn’t include Rasmus.

by DarthYoshi on Oct 12, 2008 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

In response

I don’t know that Rasmus is off the table, but I think that a Rasmus/Anderson/Mortensen/Greene is too much.

The Cardinals don’t have another quality MI closer than 3-4 years away in their system besides Greene. The Cards don’t have any other stud catchers in their system (course, Yadi is only 26 or so).

I’d be much more inclined to do a Rasmus/Garcia/Craig than the other one because Craig is going to be blocked by Glaus, Freese (possibly), and Wallace in STL. Also, Garcia is missing all of next year with an injury anyway, so the Royals might want Mortensen or Boggs or Parisi instead.

by stlfan on Oct 12, 2008 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Would substituting Chris Perez for Garcia be too much of a ransom?

To me, from the perspective of a Royals fan, Rasmus/Perez/Craig seems pretty fair for both sides—we still get to address some major needs (outfield and power-hitting infield) with prospects rather than veterans, and we would be pulling more from areas where your team is more stacked with talent. I’ve heard better things about Garcia’s control which is why I named him originally—I didn’t know he would be out all of next year. I’m not a total downer on Mortensen, but I’d rather have Perez (or Garcia, had he been healthy).

by DarthYoshi on Oct 12, 2008 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

(one caveat...

…Mortensen does have the benefit over Perez of being a starter…but that is really the only reason I can think of off the top of my head why I’d prefer Mortensen.)

by DarthYoshi on Oct 12, 2008 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you'd rather

have Mortensen than Perez, I would much rather take that. As a Cards fan, I think Rasmus/Perez/Craig would be too much. Perez is the closer of the future for the Cards, I think. Now, if Jason Motte comes out and dominates again this coming year like he did in his VERY limited innings this year, or if the Cards sign KRod, then I’d think more about Perez.

by stlfan on Oct 13, 2008 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So basically

Rasmus, Craig, and a high-level P prospect who isn’t Perez? How would you feel about Rasmus/Craig/Jess Todd? I’m bigger on Todd than I am on Mortensen, but Rasmus/Craig/Todd would be a bare minimum for giving up Greinke—I may actually consider asking for a low-level throw-in, as both Craig and Todd look like solid prospects, but they don’t project as true impact players. Mortensen certainly doesn’t. But I do like both Craig and Todd, and Herron as well to an extent.

by DarthYoshi on Oct 13, 2008 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

send us wallace and we might have a deal.

rasmus, craig, anderson, todd, and wallace. Now we’re talking.

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Oct 13, 2008 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

that is almost certainly too much for any sane Cards fan/faux GM

I would certainly do that deal, but I doubt many Cards fans would, and they’d be justified in thinking so. Four top-10 prospects plus Wallace for Greinke is probably too high. Four top-10 prospects is what the Mets essentially paid for Santana. I like ZG a lot, but he isn’t Johan Santana yet.

by DarthYoshi on Oct 13, 2008 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know...

 but the game is changing! Must have pitching!!!

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Oct 14, 2008 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can't and wouldn't send wallace

We can’t trade him until at least July (if I remember rules correctly) and the Cards wouldn’t put Rasmus and Wallace in the same deal. That’d be dumb.

That would have been like the Royals trading Butler and Gordon a couple of years back when they were tearing it up in lower levels.

by stlfan on Oct 14, 2008 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

if that is to much

you don’t know the value of Zack Grienke…..

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Oct 13, 2008 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

no.

ludwick is a fluke. and if he isn’t… then we missed. to bad.

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Oct 13, 2008 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Haven't read this entire thread, but...

I would not trade Billy Butler right now. It’s the whole, buy low, sell high thing. I would trade Greinke or Soria or DeJesus, if they could bring something good.

by billexgordler on Oct 13, 2008 8:24 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

i think trading grienke now would be selling low....

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Oct 13, 2008 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

in some ways yes, in some ways no

The question is, will Greinke be more valuable now, having come off a solid 2007 and an excellent 2008, or later with one more year of what will likely be superb pitching but being reduced in status to only a one-year rental?

I don’t think Greinke’s stock has ever been higher since he was drafted. This is not to say that it won’t get higher still, but we’ll see. Maybe a good in-between point would be to make him a July 31 deadline trade candidate—whomever he would be traded to would still get a year and three months of outstanding pitching, and because buying teams are sometimes willing to overpay for talent in a tight pennant race, we may be able to strike the best deal then. Just a thought.

by DarthYoshi on Oct 13, 2008 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's going up baby, it's going up.

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Oct 14, 2008 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But his service time is too...

which means that there is less value for him getting 1 year than 2. Does Atlanta give up all those prospects for Teixeira if it were this year? I think not.

by stlfan on Oct 14, 2008 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

there is the possibility

of the Royals doing for Greinke what the Twinkies essentially did for Santana—trade him but give his agent a 72-ish hour window to negotiate an extension with the new team before the trade was finalized.

If that were to happen, then trading Greinke a year from now would not diminish his value simply by being a one-year rental. Whether that will happen, though, is anyone’s guess.

by DarthYoshi on Oct 15, 2008 1:30 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Brian Bannister for Matt Murton

There, I said it

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 15, 2008 12:57 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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