"I’m comfortable with my pitching ability to (the point) where I feel like I’m going to pitch (well) for a while. I don’t need to get a long-term deal because I feel I’ll be able to pitch (well) and earn a long-term deal when I become a free agent.....I love the city. It’s just trying to figure out how good we’re going to be. The city is great for me."
about 1 month ago
RoyalsRetro
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Did you not read his quote?
He loves the city!!!!! That is worth at least $100 million right there.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on
Nov 11, 2008 9:30 PM EST
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I don't mean to be insensitive...
but Kansas City is a familiar social situation, and I don’t think that is necessarily trivial in Greinke’s case.
by Trey Hillman's Chin on
Nov 12, 2008 12:27 PM EST
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does this make him more tradable?
I wish they would just sign him now.
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
by buddyball on Nov 11, 2008 10:17 PM EST 0 recs
Anyone else see the video of Space Lee's awesome post- Red Sox HoF induction interview?
that could be Zack in KC… now he’ll just be another would-coulda-should… C’Mon, Zack, I don’t think they even have Chipolte on the coasts!
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Nov 11, 2008 10:26 PM EST 0 recs
Thanks, Retro
now I’m sort of depressed
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on
Nov 11, 2008 10:27 PM EST
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there are chipotles on the West coast
but please sign a long term deal with the Royals.
I think Zach played his cards right, though… keeping leverage on his side. I guess I was hoping it’d be easier to sign him, but I still hold out hope it’ll happen soon.
by CollininCalifornia on
Nov 12, 2008 12:25 PM EST
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It's hard to sign someone when they don't want to be signed.
Will ZG forget what we’ve done for him? Stood by him through the whole season that he wasted away? Introduced him to Chipotle? All those good things?
ZG! Please don’t go!
Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.
by 306008 on Nov 11, 2008 10:53 PM EST 0 recs
We Have Plenty
Of time to deal with this. Sure, make the 3 year offer now, but if he’s not interested we have until the trade deadline 2010 to decide if we open the checkbook for a big-boy contract. At his age, a 5 year contract for 2011-2015 would be great if the team is ready to compete, Glass is willing to make the commitment, and Zack has proven he can sustain his 2008 level or higher. We should have Moustakas, Hosmer and a gaggle of young pitching talent up from the minors by then, so we could have a winner here.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Nov 11, 2008 11:16 PM EST 0 recs
Crap.
Well that’s not how i wanted to start my day. Hopefully it’s just a line from a note card his agent gave him to read so we’d tack on another $10-20M.
Don't Stop Believing!
by KC Chris on Nov 12, 2008 8:42 AM EST 0 recs
What else is a player in his position going to say?
We’re all familiar with GM-speak. This is player-speak. A player in his position isn’t going to say publicly, “I just want to stay in KC forever. I sure hope we can get a long-term deal signed. I don’t want to go anywhere…ever!” Some may think Greinke is stupid, but he’s not that stupid. He’s talked to his agent. He knows what time it is. His bargaining position is optimized by saying publicly that he’s in no hurry to sign a long-term deal and that he’d be happy to go to free agency.
So we really don’t know how much Greinke would like to stay in KC, or how much he’d like to test the FA waters. That being said, if significant progress in long-term deal negotiations were not made by March 1, I’d trade him by opening day.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Nov 12, 2008 9:13 AM EST 0 recs
Some players
Would say they want a long term deal, but that the money has to be right, or something like that. He’s totally dismissing a long-term deal, which is troubling and should put him on the trading block.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on
Nov 12, 2008 9:59 AM EST
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+1
hope he will resign with us but I never had a good feeling about him signing long term.
by gordonrules on
Nov 12, 2008 11:12 AM EST
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Didn't sound that way to me
Listened to the conference call, and while he said he’d be fine with free agency, he ALSO said he’s letting his agent deal with it and isn’t really worried about it. Then he went on this like minute long thing on how he loves the city, which was kind of hilarious.
Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.
by doublestix on
Nov 12, 2008 1:01 PM EST
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That's fair
We probably shouldn’t read TOO much into this, but I am not optimistic a long-term deal can be had, and I don’t blame Dayton/Glass for that.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on
Nov 12, 2008 1:17 PM EST
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I don't think so
This is as close as he can come to saying he is getting out of KC as soon as he gets the chance. If he was interested there would have been a lot of “I hope things work out yadda yadda.”
DM’s mentioned on a couple of occasions that long term deals require both parties to want to sign. My guess is that Greinke rebuffed him several months ago but that event was not made public.
In any event, the cat is now out of the bag—Greinke is as gone as Beltran was. Let’s hope DM does a better job than Baird of dealing with it.
by BlueEyes_Austin on
Nov 12, 2008 12:00 PM EST
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NY Royal I am going to have to disagree with you here (Retro to a lesser extent)
The point is not that Greinke is stupid, it’s that he says whatever is on his mind. Given his history of brutal honesty with the press (often times to the point of embarrassment and/or hilarity), if Zack truly feels right now that KC is the definite place for him for the long-term, I would expect him to not mince words and come out and say so. His agent is probably hissing in his ear a bit about strengtening his bargaining position in relation to what he says to the press, but agent PR-speak did not stop Zack from being wholly honest about his problems with anxiety and depression, even the fact that he did not even like baseball. Those public statements surely did not help his bargaining position when it came to arbitration, for example.
That said, I also disagree with Retro in that I do not think Zack is dismissing a long-term deal with the Royals. All that is clear to me from Zack’s comments is that sealing him to a long-term deal is less contingent upon money and more a function of convincing him that KC is set-up to be a winning ballclub in the future. I find that impossible to blame him for. If Dayton can’t do that, sure you have to consider trading him because he is bound to be exorbitantly expensive once he hits FA unless his performance suffers or he falls victim to injury. 2009 truly is a lightning rod year for the club in many respects. How GMDM handles Greinke, the first true star player for the Royals to be in this situation since Beltran in the Allard era, will be the biggest test thus far in his GM career.
Waiting for April.
by DC Royal on
Nov 12, 2008 12:41 PM EST
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You talk about Zack's honesty with the media
and in the past that has been true, but do remember that he has always been a immature kid playing a man’s game. He’s finally starting to be someone whose been around now and knows better how to deal with Player-speak and how to be politically correct. In the early-20’s years, every year that passes one gains a lot more maturity then any other age (IMO).
I don’t think this really means anything, I too heard his voice and the context it was in was no big deal.
by I need more Esteban on
Nov 12, 2008 11:29 PM EST
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Kazmir made similar comments about the Rays ... then signed for three years, plus club option
I wouldn’t offer much above the Kazmir deal. If that doesn’t get it done, time to start fielding offers but I’m still in no rush to make a deal unless it’s a no-brainer.
by RATW on
Nov 12, 2008 2:04 PM EST
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and we all know how well the Royals do with "no-brianers"
cf. HIllman on OBP
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on
Nov 12, 2008 2:05 PM EST
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The smart play
would have been to sign him to a long-term deal after the 2007 season. (Yes, I said it then too). The signs were clearly all there – remember how dominate he looked after returning to the rotation from his bullpen stint in August & September 07?
Time for Glass to STEP UP. Everyone says we shouldn’t pursue top tier FAs, primarily because they cost too much, and combined with age decline, the risk is too high. Well, here’s a case where you could retain one of your own homegrown talents, and signing him for the suggested 2010-2014 or 2015 period would ensure having him for his PRIME years, without the age decline risk. I also think it may be fair to say he is just about past the “young pitcher injury risk” age.
So what do you say, Glass? Time to repay the community for your new ballpark.
Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!
by loyal2sdad on Nov 12, 2008 10:43 AM EST 1 recs
I think they tried to sign him post 2007 season...
didn’t they? He said that same thing then, my agent is doing it.
Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.
by 306008 on
Nov 12, 2008 1:44 PM EST
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I dunno
I say trade him now. Ideal trading partner: a team that has multiple sliugging “first basemen” with defensive issues.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Nov 12, 2008 10:49 AM EST 0 recs
lets snag the rest od Derek Lee's decline and massive contract!
…or is he still too good?
by royalsreview on
Nov 12, 2008 11:39 AM EST
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above average fielder
also, he doesn’t fit into DMGM’s plan for improving the team OBP (.367 career)
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on
Nov 12, 2008 11:52 AM EST
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.367 is such a marginal improvement
if we can’t get someone to OBP .430 then we might as well just go with the guys who get on around .320
Accidentally not thedude925 anymore. I do hate this new name.
by wildthang on
Nov 12, 2008 1:04 PM EST
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Paul Konerko?
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
by buddyball on Nov 12, 2008 1:14 PM EST 0 recs
Greinke + DeJesus + Guillen
To Atlanta for Jeff Franceour!
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Nov 12, 2008 1:18 PM EST 0 recs
Uh oh, Greinke wants Jake Peavy money
As discussed here previously (and mentioned in the article), probably the leading comparable contract for Greinke is Scott Kazmir. Kazmir, like Greinke, was scheduled to become a free agent after the 2010 season. During the 2008 season (so 2 1/2 years short of free agency), Kazmir signed a three year extension with a team option for fourth year at $6 million/$8 million/$12 million/$13.5 million club option ($2.5 million buyout). For a young, elite/near elite pitcher like Kazmir, that is a great deal.
Before the 2008 season, Jake Peavy signed an extension when he was two years away from free agency. Peavy was in a little different situation than Kazmir because he had signed a previous extension in which the Padres held a team option on 2009 (which would have been Peavy’s first year of free agency eligibility). Peavy’s new extension (which would kick in after the team’s 2009 option for $8 million) was three years plus a team option. But because the new extension would only be buying out free agent years (not cost controlled arbitration years), the price tag was considerably higher than Kazmir’s contract — $15 million/$16 million/$17 million/$22 million team option ($4 million buyout).
Obviously, Greinke at this point in his career is not as accomplished as a Cy Young award winner like Peavy (maybe, as Mr. Devil_Fingers pointed out recently) or even Kazmir, but from a contract negotiation perspective, that may matter little to Greinke. In two years when Greinke is scheduled to become a free agent, he knows he is a reasonable bet to be better than Kazmir and to be closing the gap on Peavy. He may, in fact, be the best free agent pitcher available that offseason. We may see a slowing or downturn in salaries due to the economy over the next couple years, but elite talent is still going to cost elite money. Greinke is still taking a big risk leaving a substantial amount of guaranteed money on the table, but he is due for a multi-million-dollar pay raise in his second year of arbitration eligibility, and an even bigger raise in 2010 in his last arbitration year (in which salaries are no longer measured based on service time, but on all players). In other words, the Royals’ leverage with Greinke is dwindling fast and mainly consists of the arbitration-influenced discount on his 2009 salary.
As a result, Kazmir’s contract at this poing might be the floor for an extension this offseason. If the Royals want to keep Greinke for any sort of below market deal, Moore needs to lock him up this offseason even if it means spending more than Kazmir money. The alternative is to pay full Peavy money the next offseason.
Similarly, if the Royals want a Dan Haren/Eric Bedard bounty for trading him, Moore needs to pull the trigger this offseason because the return plummets once the player is only one year from free agency and making a near full market price salary in that last year. If the Royals wait to make a decision, they lose substantial leverage both with Greinke for an extension and with other teams for a trade.
by Gopherballs on Nov 12, 2008 1:29 PM EST 0 recs
what about the declining economy?
Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.
by 306008 on
Nov 12, 2008 1:46 PM EST
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+1 on trading
depressing, but they need to do it if the can’t resign. I wish Boston needed pitching… a package starting with Dustin Pedroia would be nice.
Maybe the Yanks? They were rumored to be interested in Peavy or Cain, and I think Greinke is as at least as good as Peavy, and better than Cain. I don’t know what the Yanks have in their system… but I can imagine starting with Cano (I still think he’ll rebound) and Austin Jackson.
Trading in the division would suck for when he comes back, but if the Royals could get LaPorta + Catcher + Gutierrez or something from Cleveland
TX comes up again…. unfortuneatley, their best young player is another defensively challenged 1B.
How ‘bout Milwaukee? Prince doesn’t fit in KC alone, but maybe J. J. Hardy would be cheaper to resign than Zack? Do they have others to be part of that deal?
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on
Nov 12, 2008 2:05 PM EST
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Based on the Haren/Bedard type deals
the return might be one high upside major league ready prospect/pre-arbitration player (C. Gonzalez/A. Jones), one blue chip prospect from the lower minors (B. Anderson/C. Tillman), and at least one other good prospect/cheap major leaguer (A. Cunningham/G. Sherrill). (Although now, Cunningham might be as valuable as Gonzalez).
One other point is that as Jake Peavy proves, re-signing Greinke now does not preclude trading him later. He will only be 25 next year, so he will be in his prime through the course of his next contract. He might not have as much value once the cheap years are gone off the contract (meaning 2009 and 2010), but the Royals would still get the value of Greinke playing for them until that time plus whatever comes back in trade.
I am usually a pretty strong fiscal conservatives when it comes to baseball, but Greinke is the rare pitcher where paying a premium makes sense.
by Gopherballs on
Nov 12, 2008 5:07 PM EST
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so if you're DMGM
and Jose Guillen is worth 3/$36, Zack must be worth 10/one million billion
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on
Nov 12, 2008 6:27 PM EST
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No, DMGM gets pitching
Gil Meche! Ramon Ramirez! Horacio Ramirez!
by Gopherballs on
Nov 12, 2008 6:44 PM EST
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HoRam was da bomb!
And we got freaking Paulo Orlando!
Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.
by doublestix on
Nov 12, 2008 8:41 PM EST
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ZG wants to play for a winner
His quotes for a long time have made it clear that playing for a winning team is his top consideration. This story clearly reinforces that message. Was it last year that ZG talked about how it was more fun to play at AA Witchita when they were contending for a championship than it was to play with the Royals? The interviewer than asked him about whether the money was more fun in the Majors, to which ZG said something along the lines of, “Yeah, I guess, but I don’t really have to worry about that stuff anymore.” Zack’s an odd duck, but he tends to be very frank with his interview quotes, and I think we should take him for his word. He likes the city, but he doesn’t know how competitive the team will be. He’s not too concerned with money, but he doesn’t have fun when the team is losing. If the Royals young players really step up in 2009 and the team looks like a legit contender for the coming years, I bet you’ll see ZG sign a contract that’s great for the Royals. If 2009 is another 2008, you’ll see him traded before spring of 2010.
by kcdc1 on Nov 12, 2008 2:08 PM EST 1 recs
+1
I think you nailed it
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on
Nov 12, 2008 2:16 PM EST
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Ditto
The unfortunate part about that scenario, is his trade value will be MUCH less in future off-seasons/mid-seasons than this offseason.
So, basically, by not trading him/signing him long-term this off season, GMDM will be gambling that ZG will see moderate to substantial signs of improvement and then want to resign. If we go 72-90 ish again, and ZG then doesn’t want to sign, you then have to decide the same decision, except his trade value will be shit, and if he isn’t traded, we’ll get a couple of draft picks if ‘10 isn’t much better.
by GoBabies!! on
Nov 12, 2008 2:30 PM EST
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+1
and even if he wants to resign after 2009, it will cost that much more money
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on
Nov 12, 2008 2:37 PM EST
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On The Other
Hand, trading him now would be in effect planning to fail. If we really think we can keep Greinke by getting better, let’s make that our focus and hang on to him. We are trying to get better anyway, right?
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on
Nov 12, 2008 2:37 PM EST
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Good point
but the team might get better right away by getting back several good players in return. I want Zack to stay with the Royals, but no player is worth paying too much for (by definition).
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on
Nov 12, 2008 2:40 PM EST
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I think we could potentially get away with trading Zack this July
(assuming he continues to develop as a staff ace), because teams in tight pennant races generally are willing to overpay for talent close to the trade deadline. If we need to, I think that is a distinct possibility. That being said, we are unable to sign Greinke by the time spring training rolls around, I’d try to have him traded by Opening Day, and would wait until the July deadline only if none of the deals offered to me were worth handing over ZG.
I also think kcdc got it right—Zack wants to play for a winner, and let’s face it, the Royals won’t be that in 2009. If the Royals had a legitimate shot at winning the division, I think we would have a pretty good chance of getting Greinke to sign for Kazmir money. As it is, though, I think there is a significan chance that we have already seen the last game for Greinke in Royal blue, since GMDM has to know that Greinke’s trade value is not going to get much higher.
by DarthYoshi on
Nov 12, 2008 11:38 PM EST
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I think we could probably get a similar return at the trade deadline
but I’m not sure Moore has the cojones necessary to make such a move during the season. He’s been really big on steady improvement and trying to win throughout the entire season — trading the staff ace at the trade deadline would essentially be throwing in the towel for the season.
by Top Ramen on
Nov 13, 2008 10:51 AM EST
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excellent points gopherballs
The question, then, is: are we going to compete in 2009? If we somehow do (Greinke will be a big reason why), signing long term with the Royals suddenly becomes attractive. If we don’t, as gopherballs so eloquently pointed out, it becomes a lose-lose situation for the Royals.
In short, if we don’t sign him this offseason (which, from the sound of that comment by Zack, is not likely going to happen), then not trading him becomes a risky move. You are gambling that the Royals are going to compete in ‘09. Dayton’s a gambler, though, so I can easily see him taking that chance.
If I were Dayton Moore (sounds like a high school English paper topic), I would set my sights high for impact players who might realistically allow the team to compete for a playoff spot in ‘09, but guys who are young enough to allow us to sustain competitivenes for a couple years. Free-agent-wise, I’m talking about Furcal and a pretty short list of others (Teixera is obviously out of reach, so you have find that middle ground player who won’t be asking for 20 million a year). Trade-wise, who knows. Delmon Young?
I wait until after the winter meetings to see if I can get something done in that regard.
But I put teams on alert (Texas Rangers, et al), however, that I’m going to deal Greinke if I can’t land an impact player or two. And if I can’t make the team significantly better in ‘09, then yes, I pull the plug on Greinke. I talk to the Cardinals. I talk to the Rangers. I talk to the Braves (gulp). Anyone who has the minor league ammo and lost out on Peavy. But if it doesn’t look like we can realistically shoot for the playoffs in ’09, or come close, then we have to move Greinke.
gopherballs said it all.
I'm about to change my username to DannyDuffyfan
by jackie ballgame on Nov 12, 2008 2:40 PM EST 0 recs
No Greinke to STL
Only if they send us Pujols. I live too close to St. Louis to risk the Cardinals stealing Greinke like the Astros did Beltran.
by jbrocato on
Nov 12, 2008 3:43 PM EST
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If Greinke is traded to STL,
I will voluntarily go on “suicide watch”
Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!
by loyal2sdad on Nov 12, 2008 5:51 PM EST 0 recs
yes, depressing, Part 2
I think kcdc1 seems about right on. I’d hate to lose Greinke (Part 2). So, what is Part 1 you ask? Well, I’ve been losing faith in this off-season. GMDM signaled frustration and major changes and also OBP. It seems that something (Glass again) has changed and that none of this is going to happen and we’re going to go into the season with essentially the same cast of castaways. This will result in similar results as this year or last year which will be horrible and will be that nail in Greinke’s coffin.
Therefore, time to trade Greinke as that seems now to be the only way major changes will actually occur. We need a trade of Greinke to result in a much improved offense so that we can deal with the dropoff in pitching. Hopefully the dropoff in pitching can be short lived if some of our prospects begin to improve and come up to the club. Unfortunately, yes, I said it. Hope. I’m so tired of hope.
Glass, please, please sell this team. Can we convince Warren Buffett he needs a MLB team?
by kabrink on Nov 12, 2008 8:58 PM EST 0 recs
FWIW
Moore’s comments on 38 seemed to indicate that Glass still trusts him with a potentially significant increase in payroll, it is just that there aren’t many FAs to Moore’s liking (which is understandable, but I would hope Moore is actively exploring any potential trades). I don’t know if any of that was an unwillingness to call out one’s boss in public, but but it sure sounded like Glass is still willing to write some big checks for the right players.
During the Baird era, David Glass was arguably the worst owner in baseball. Since hiring Moore, Glass has become significantly less meddlesome and Scrooge-like. He is much less the problem now than he was a few years ago.
by DarthYoshi on
Nov 12, 2008 11:46 PM EST
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Glass should just tell Moore
“Sign whoever you want… just no position players”
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on
Nov 12, 2008 11:56 PM EST
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probably not a bad idea
Although when you get down to it, Baird didn’t leave much of a lineup to go off of either—Teabag, Buck, Gordon, and Butler were all acquired by Baird, and all four of them have been disappointments of varying degrees (maybe Gordon a little less so). So…telling Moore no more position players signings is like ‘damned if you do, damned if you don’t.’
by DarthYoshi on
Nov 13, 2008 12:02 AM EST
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Add DDJ and German to that list
now compare that list straight up to Guillen, Gload, TPJ, Gathright, Shealy, Jacobs, and Olivo. Doesn’t look great for the second list.
Now add in salaries.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on
Nov 13, 2008 12:13 AM EST
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Taking a player's statements at face value makes about as much sense as taking a GM's statements at face value
No, Greinke is not stupid enough, nor naive enough to just say whatever is on his mind without a filter at all times, in all situations, on all subjects. There’s no doubt that he and his agent have discussed this issue a lot this offseason. His agent has helped him with the kind of things he should say.
The bottom line is that we don’t know what Greinke’s priority is. Throughout this thread, various have posters have said that he “clearly” or “obviously” prioritizes 1) maximizing salary, 2) winning, 3) staying in KC. While I’m sure he’d like all of those three things, we have no idea how much he values each of them and what his #1 priority is. We don’t know. His version of agent-advised player-speak certainly doesn’t open a big window into what he’s really thinking.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Nov 13, 2008 4:07 AM EST 0 recs
Now you've got me wondering
if he was lying about Chipotle and Emil Brown all along
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on
Nov 13, 2008 10:09 AM EST
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Obviously
the little window his statements open suggest that he will not be an easy sign. Clearly, everyone should take what he said with a grain of salt, but the disappointment comes from not hearing something along the lines of what other players have said shortly before re-signing with their team — “I told my agent to get something done.”
by Gopherballs on
Nov 13, 2008 1:05 PM EST
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