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Cubs showing interest in Teahen

When should we expect a "That's a lie. Anything you've heard about trading Teahen to the Cubs is a lie." rebuttal?

Link about 1 month ago Zap_brannigan_tiny Top Ramen Comment 125 comments 0 recs |

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you beat me to it! grrrrrrr!

your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!

by DarthYoshi on Nov 18, 2008 6:04 PM EST   0 recs

this was what Darth said in his deleted post

Dutton raises the possibility of swapping Teahen for Felix Pie, Ronny Cedeno, or Mike Fontenot.

Pie and Cedeno were familiar hot-stove names here last year, Fontenot not so much.

If the Royals do flip Teabag for either Cedeno or Fontenot, that will functionally be DM conceding that Callaspo is no longer the 2b of the future for the Royals.

I have mixed feelings on Pie—in spite of his horrendous MLB stats through two seasons, his minor-league numbers are hard to ignore, and acquiring him and shifting DDJ to left would place the Royals pretty well as OF defense goes, in spite of Guillen.

I’m no big fan of Teahen, but I’d probably ask for one of those three guys plus a throw-in for Teahen. Teahen is definitely more valuable than Fontenot, and probably a little more valuable than Cedeno. Pie…the jury is probably still out on him.

Thoughts?

by royalsreview on Nov 18, 2008 6:11 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

If the Royals do flip Teabag for either Cedeno or Fontenot, that will functionally be DM conceding that Callaspo is no longer the 2b of the future for the Royals.

I don’t think that is necessarily true. It would be adding another decent option for second base. No one knows if or how Callaspo will pan out. We also don’t know for sure how well Cedeno or Fonteno would perform. But having two iffy options for that position increases the chance that there will be one player who turns out to be at least pretty good.

I have mixed feelings on Pie—in spite of his horrendous MLB stats through two seasons, his minor-league numbers are hard to ignore, and acquiring him and shifting DDJ to left would place the Royals pretty well as OF defense goes, in spite of Guillen.

Yeah, I love the CF defense, which would help and he still has some upside as a hitter. But he may never become a decent MLB hitter, even for a CFer.

I’m no big fan of Teahen, but I’d probably ask for one of those three guys plus a throw-in for Teahen. Teahen is definitely more valuable than Fontenot, and probably a little more valuable than Cedeno. Pie…the jury is probably still out on him.

Teahen is worth more than Pie+throw in or Cedeno+throw in. I’d do Teahen for Pie and Cedeno. If that is too much for Teahen, I’d toss in a throw-in.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Nov 18, 2008 6:26 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Teahen for Pie + Cedeno

Please God. If for no other reason than there would absolutely no longer be any excuse to keep TPJ on the roster.

by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 18, 2008 6:31 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

You're probably right on Callaspo

At present, I don’t think the Royals brass has much faith in Callaspo, but Callaspo’s strong September may give him the benefit of the doubt in spring training. If Cedeno or Fontenot is acquired, then I do think it spells the end of TPJ’s stay in KC, with Callaspo’s AB’s being significantly decreased. Assuming a 12-man pitching staff, it is hard to see German making the 25-man roster either in this scenario.

I do think Pie + Cedeno is probably asking too much for Teahen straight-up. But if we were looking for OF defense, I wish that Teahen-for-Gutierrez rumor would have turned out to be true.

by DarthYoshi on Nov 18, 2008 8:00 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Why not throw in JoGui, Gload, and Jacobs with Teahen

And for their troubles we’ll take Pie, Cedeno, and Fukudome.

by AxDxMx on Nov 19, 2008 1:07 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Turn Cedeno into Fontenot and you have a deal

NOw, all we have to to is get one of us to be GM of the Royals, and the other to GM the Cubs…

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Nov 19, 2008 9:50 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Sounds interesting

If this happens, I would bet that Pie would be involved. It’s interesting that Moore is almost always very measured and diplomatic in his comments and then calls two rumors “lies” and suddenly the fanbase (or some therein) are upset with his emotional, moralistic, explosive comments. How dare he.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Nov 18, 2008 6:08 PM EST   0 recs

as i said, it could be a weird verbal tick or a pet-tendency

I just can’t recall another GM breaking out with the “lies” card before…

by royalsreview on Nov 18, 2008 6:12 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Can I ask, what difference does it make?

He isn’t going after anyone. He’s saying that the rumor simply isn’t true. He’s trying not to be vague so that his statement cannot be interpreted to mean that it is a non-denial denial. He’s going beyond GM-speak to make a clear denial. Is there anything wrong with that? Is “lie” really that incendiary of a word? Many GM’s routinely breakout much stronger words than “lie”.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Nov 18, 2008 6:21 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Agreed

If we’re looking for crazy comments by a GM, I think a certain Mr. Ricciardi north of the border is probably the standard-bearer.

by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 18, 2008 6:25 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

If the word “lie” causes the bells and whistles to go off around here, then I think we have our GM Language Monitor set to ultra-sensitive.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Nov 18, 2008 6:28 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

"Upset"

Yea, that’s it.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Nov 18, 2008 8:40 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

I don’t know if anyone is upset or not, but a few people have been complaining about it for some unknown reason. I think it’s because it’s fun to complain about the GM when there is good reason to and when there is not.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Nov 19, 2008 12:20 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Upset?

snicker

I think you’re trying to put emotion into my sentence, when there isn’t meant to be any. I just find it amusing that out of the three (or so) major stories that have come out about the Royals this offseason (Teahen to the Indians, Jacobs, Butler), Moore has told reporters that two are “lies. Absolute lies, and you can print that.”, which is definitely not usual GM speak.*

* I also find it amusing when Bostoners talk about their “idears” at work and southerners talk about watering their garden with their “hosepipes”.

by Top Ramen on Nov 18, 2008 10:50 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

It wasn’t just about your mention of “lie.” It wasn’t even primarily you. There have been other complaints about how shockingly over the top the use of the word “lie” is.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Nov 19, 2008 12:21 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

i like this trade rumor

Teabag for Cedeno = meh… Cedeno seems like a slightly better hitting TPJ
Teabag for Fontenot + low-level throw in = fine
Teabag for Pie + good low-level throw in = fine

Is that fair? I’m not familiar with Cedeno but based on his numbers he seems like TPJ with a .250 batting average. I guess my only problem with Fontenot is that he’s 28 yrs old. I am weary of Pie — we already have Joey Gath waiting around… I guess Pie would be Gathright but with a little more power potential.

I guess it’s not bad, but I prefer Fontenot with a decent low level throw in.

by CollininCalifornia on Nov 18, 2008 6:31 PM EST   0 recs

A little more power......?

Pie has A LOT more power than Gathwrong.

I’d prefer Fontenot too, though. Very good hitter, could bat #2.

Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.

by doublestix on Nov 18, 2008 6:38 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Teabag for Fontenot + low-level throw in = fine
Teabag for Pie + good low-level throw in = fine

Is that fair?

No, I don’t think that’s fair. Pie has never done anything in the majors, while having been given a shot. Teahen’s worst major league years are better than Pie’s best. And Pie is out of options, which also hurts his value. Fontenot has more in the way of performance as compared to Pie, but less in the way of tools. And his good performance comes from only one good partial season. And he’s 28. So either of them plus a throw-in is underselling Teahen. Teahen’s value is considerably higher than these guys because he’s an ok hitter, and can play 4 positions, including pretty good OF defense.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Nov 18, 2008 6:43 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

so do you like any of the Teabag trade talk?

or is there someone else on the cubs you think would be a good fit. As i said, I’d be happy with Fontenot and a good throw in.

by CollininCalifornia on Nov 18, 2008 6:58 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

As I said in one of my posts above, I’d do Teahen+throw in for Pie+Cedeno. I might do Teahen+throw in for Pie+Fontenot. I think Teahen for Fontenot plus a throw in is really, really selling low. You may well know more about Fontenot than I do. He hit well this year, but in only 243 AB’s. Before that in 241 AB’s he was pretty bad. His numbers throughout his minor league career were ok, but not great. Is he great defensively?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Nov 18, 2008 7:12 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

here is some stuff on Fontenot from Beyond the Box Score
9. Mike Fontenot (22 off, 8 def, 30 tot) — Here’s a guy who snuck up on my radar. Fontenot absolutely crushed the ball this year, to the tune of .305/.395/.514 in just under 300 plate appearances. He’s old for someone with less than two years of service time -2009 will be his age 29 season - but if he can give the Cubs even league-average offense with his good glove, they’ll be more than happy to take it.

Basically he’s a decent 2B defensively… #9 on their list…. not that they are the ultimate judge. But I think he could break out in ’09.

by CollininCalifornia on Nov 18, 2008 7:28 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

He could be decent

But his track record does not inspire great confidence in my mind. His minor league track record is just ok. And then he doesn’t show anything in the majors until age 28. I think we’ve seen his breakout already and I’d be shocked (I think just about anybody would be shocked) if he ever has a full season which is anywhere near as good as his 243 MLB AB’s in 2008. As BtB said, if he can be a league average hitter for his position with a good glove, I’d be happy to have him. He might be. But he might not. Certainly at his age, he’s likely peaked.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Nov 18, 2008 7:37 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

at the very least

I think Fontenot could be a decent on base guy. I mean looking at his career including minor league numbers, he has almost the same type of production with little tinie tiny improvements.

by Royal from Queens on Nov 18, 2008 7:43 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Could be

But can he maintain enough contact to keep the OBP up? He could end up being a .290/.365 (BA/OBP) guy or a .250/.325 guy, or anywhere in between.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Nov 18, 2008 7:50 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

To be fair

Between his major league and minor league production, his career OBP is .365.5 So it’s been pretty consistent. There are some guys that are huge questions marks when it comes to playing time and all that stuff but he’s just… maintained since 2005. Its a nice enough sample size that I expect a .365 OBP at the very least, which isn’t too shabby,

by Royal from Queens on Nov 18, 2008 7:55 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

So it’s been pretty consistent.

No, it hasn’t. It’s been consistent since his second year in the PCL at age 25. When looking at his minor league track record, you have to age, level and league into account. When seen in that light, those recent years of good OBP don’t look so impressive.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Nov 18, 2008 8:01 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Can He Still

Rake?

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Nov 18, 2008 8:08 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Huh?

Well technically, that was his first season in the PCL, but his second in AAA.
I mean how much of a track record is needed to convince you then? We’re not one season with only 200 AB’s. He’s done for like 3 years now between the majors and the minors.

by Royal from Queens on Nov 18, 2008 8:10 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

I mean how much of a track record is needed to convince you then?

More than one half of a season in the majors. In his half season in the majors in 2007, his OBP was .339. And his recent good OBP seasons in the minors were only after he had repeated the level and was old for the level. So, do I need more of a track record to be convinced that this 28-year-old can be counted on to have a good MLB OBP. It’s not like AAA OBP’s always carry over to good MLB PA’s.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Nov 18, 2008 8:13 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Regarding OBP

Yeah, your right, AAA OBP’s don’t equal MLB OBP’s but at a certain point the decision is made with what’s available.
Unfortunately I haven’t seen alot of Fontenot to make the assessment of whether or not its “real” but if Teahen is traded for a Fontenot he must be accompanied by someone else like Pie.

by Royal from Queens on Nov 18, 2008 8:19 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

uhh...pie's had 260 ABs in the majors...

and put up 825 OPS in the minors…he’s still young…and he fills a need…

teahen is a 4th OF…ill take the upside over a 4th outfielder any day

TPJ...you're dead to me

by billybeingbilly on Nov 18, 2008 7:57 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

That's why I'm willing to take him as part of a Teahen trade

But if you think Pie has more value on the trade market than Teahen, you’re nuts. Nor is Pie plus a throw-in at Teahen’s level.

And am I supposed to be impressed by a .825 OPS in the minors, particularly when a significant part of that was in the PCL?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Nov 18, 2008 8:03 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Defense!

You’re the one who is supposed to tell me that Pie is going to save 50 runs with his defense.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Nov 18, 2008 10:11 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Maybe, but he's just a placeholder for Paulo Orlando

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Nov 18, 2008 10:12 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

In reality

every event from the formation of the universe to now and until that day finally arrives is just a placeholder for Paulo Orlando.

Accidentally not thedude925 anymore. I do hate this new name.

by wildthang on Nov 19, 2008 12:37 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

I Did Not

Know that. It’s all perfectly clear now.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Nov 19, 2008 1:12 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

what kind of young pitching do the cubs have available?

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Nov 18, 2008 6:47 PM EST   0 recs

(wish they still had Ceda)

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Nov 18, 2008 6:52 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Hunch

I think we may actually see this trade go down.
Not sure who the plays will be but I think Teahen goes to the Cubs.
I’m hoping it could be for both Fontenot and Pie. And for some reason I feel its realistic.
I’d be willing to take the offensive risk of playing Pie out in CF.

by Royal from Queens on Nov 18, 2008 7:30 PM EST   0 recs

Some sort of a trade for Teahen will happen, and this is why...

So Trey and Dayton can have Gload as the 4th outfielder. To do that, they need to move Teahen. Hopefully we get better option then Gathright, otherwise it will be Gathright starting in center.

Go Royals!

by BabyBlues on Nov 18, 2008 7:54 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Only way im a fan of this trade is..

if the royals get another outfielder that is ready to play now through free agency or a trade… Pie needs more time in triple A i think we all know

ugh.

by focs on Nov 18, 2008 7:50 PM EST   0 recs

pie has no more options...

… so he’d have to pass thru waivers to be shipped to AAA.

by CollininCalifornia on Nov 18, 2008 8:00 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Fontenot straight up for Teahen would be a steal

Average MLB 2B in 2008: 276/338/409

Fontenot MLB Career (479 AB): 290/369/457

Marcel Projection for 2009: 285/361/455

He hit well in the minors too:
AA: 325/393/481
AAA: 289/364/447

Plus/Minus had him as +11 plays in 2008 and +0 in 2007, so he reasonably projects as an average to above average 2B (somewhere between 0 and 10 runs).

With the late start to his major league career, he has less than two years of service time, so he will cost the league minimum in 2009 and be under club control for 4 more years. (He might be a “Super Two” arbitration eligible in 2010).

So he is above average offensively (especially for his position), above average defensively, dirt cheap, and under club control through his likely useful life. Even if he regresses to league average offensively and defensively, he is a bargain with his contract status.

by Gopherballs on Nov 18, 2008 7:54 PM EST   0 recs

A steal? I couldn't possibly disagree more

You know the limitations of Marcel. Fontenot has been good for 243 MLB AB’s, period. And you should know that PECOTA, ZiPS and Chone will project him at much less than that. There’s a reason his career had a late start. He just isn’t very good. He could be a decent MLB 2B. Teahen is more valuable, period.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Nov 18, 2008 8:06 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Teahen is more valuable, period.

Are we talking the OF version of Teahen or the 3B version of Teahen?
If we’re talking the OF version I don’t think it should be dismissed so quickly

by Royal from Queens on Nov 18, 2008 8:13 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

I’m talking about the Mark Teahen who can play LF, RF, 3B, or 1B and give you an OPS+ around 95 with good OF defense. That versatility is a key part of his value. Also the fact that he’s a known quantity in the majors, not an iffy player with a limited track record.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Nov 18, 2008 8:15 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

I wrote it above but I'll repeat it here

I’m not trying to imply you trade Teahen for just Fontenot. I think Fontenot MUST be together with someone else like a Pie, or hell maybe even a fun project like Rich Hill (although I doubt the Cubs do that).

by Royal from Queens on Nov 18, 2008 8:26 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

That is a poor use of punctuation, exclamation point

Before Fontenot’s great 2008 season, Fontenot’s 2008 PECOTA forecast was 282/357/431. He hit as well as an average MLB 2B in 2007 (and still outhit the 2008 version of Teahen). After Fontenot’s 2008, his 2009 PECOTA should be just as good, if not better.

Teahen is not major league average wherever you play him, plus will cost $3.5 million. Fontenot projects as above average at 2B, and will cost $400,000 (and then is cost-controlled for 4 more years). Fontenot is more valuable, and it is not even close.

by Gopherballs on Nov 18, 2008 8:24 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

"it's not even close"

At least we agree on something.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Nov 18, 2008 8:25 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

what do you think about Pie?

Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.

by doublestix on Nov 18, 2008 8:06 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Pie obviously is a pretty big risk

but his glove in CF may be good enough to keep him in the lineup for a year or so to see if his bat can develop. Even if he never becomes an above average hitter, his defense may make him at least an average CF overall. I understand the comparisons to Corey Patterson, but Pie has better (but still below average) plate discipline. For a team that regularly played Joey Gathright in CF, Pie would be a fair upgrade and with his tools, who knows, you might hit a jackpot.

by Gopherballs on Nov 18, 2008 8:38 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

ok thanks

that is my thoughts too. i think Pie is the kind of talent we should take a chance on. i think even a Teabags for Pie trade straight up would be good for us.

Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.

by doublestix on Nov 18, 2008 11:02 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

this is exactly what im thinking...

i really dont see teahen as a piece when we contend…he’ll be a $6 million four corner backup…the yanks can do that…we cant….pie could turn into something special right around the time things should be coming together…

TPJ...you're dead to me

by billybeingbilly on Nov 19, 2008 12:17 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

There Has To

Be an OF in the trade; DDJ, Gator/Maier and Hoagie is not a good OF.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Nov 18, 2008 7:55 PM EST   0 recs

Go Ahead, Ridicule

Me; I can take it. I’m a man !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I’m over 50!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111111 I just had a colonoscopy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111111112486j[’pdfkg

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Nov 18, 2008 8:06 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Thanks for that visual....

can’t wait to see that video on you-tube.

Let's Go Blues!

by powderbluesfor08 on Nov 19, 2008 9:10 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Don't forget Gload

He can play OF

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Nov 18, 2008 8:48 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

I can't wait for softball season to start, either

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Nov 18, 2008 10:06 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Frankly

I don’t think Fukudome should be off the table. Sure he slumped, but that just means he has been devalued and we can get him for cheap. He still posted very good OBA numbers and supposedly we have the money to spend.

I’m not real impressed with Cedeno or Pie. It wouldn’t be a horrible trade, and I don’t expect some huge bounty for Teahen, but I doubt either player will be much more than a placeholder.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Nov 18, 2008 8:42 PM EST   0 recs

Really?

Every player who comes to the majors for the first time is a question mark. You never know how a guy from another league will perform in the majors. Fukudome came to the majors and performed well until the third week of June. From then on, he played like total crap, and that includes his OBA. He looks like a guy who hit well when major league pitchers didn’t yet know how to pitch to him, and once they figured him out, he couldn’t hit…at all. There’s no reason to believe he’ll ever be any good in the majors. Taking on Fukudome and his 3/3