Catch-all Thread: The Crisp Trade (Negatives Only)
by Freneau on Nov 19, 2008 3:27 PM EST
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PrintOK, the initial fanshot on the trade is getting massive, which is awesome, but also a bit bulky.
Do you hate the Crisp-Ramirez trade? Or are you mixed but still see negative signs? Will you continue to yearn for Ramon Ramirez throughout the winter?
Let's use this space to collect our negative thoughts on Crisp/Ramirez.
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I think his given name is Covelli
Which, of course, begs the question, “What kind of name is Covelli anyway?”
Coco Crisp is one of the best names in baseball
We haven’t had the chance to play with the cereal implications yet. That will never get old.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 19, 2008 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
This Site Is
The ultimate:
http://www.lavasurfer.com/cereal-guide.html
Hours of fun.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Nov 19, 2008 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
Can't you see the
great possibilities for new concessions at the renovated K?
How about an early-morning game, in which they have a breakfast bar serving Cocoa Krispies?
Or, on chilly April nights (or, dare we hope, chilly late October nights?), serve hot Coco.
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
interview with Moore
said Coco was one of the guys the Braves tried to acquire back when he was with Cleveland.
Don't Stop Believing!
But this is clearly about his Braves fixation
So we can now extend the stupid stereotypes to include players that the Braves organization has ever been interested in.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 19, 2008 5:07 PM EST up reply actions
according to B-R crisp is from LA
but maybe we’ll find out he was raised in the South, making him sorta a half-former-brave
this is the negatives thread...
had to hit hte stereotyope…
Don't Stop Believing!
I appreciate that
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 19, 2008 5:12 PM EST up reply actions
I preferred Nunez-for-Jacobs
Crisp only adds power when you compare him to Gathright and I am sorry to lose Ramon Ramirez.
That's my boat
At least you could argue that Jacobs added something, though that something [isolated power] is going to be degraded by his new place of employment.
We already have a CF/leadoff man who can’t find First base.
. . . a weary nation turns to Gil Meche
I don't like the negatives-only and positives-only dichotomy
It makes discussion difficult.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
But it allows us
To insulate our opinions from dissent. Kinda like FOX NEWS or Daily Kos!
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
With pundits like Alan Colmes...
…who needs any more voices of dissent?
On a somewhat related note
Fox News is the reason I never say “Merry Christmas” anymore. They turned it into something ugly.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 19, 2008 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
Not necessarily the case.
I thought the trade was a net positive, but I’m on here to see if you Negative Nancies can change my mind.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 19, 2008 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
agreed, I was moved to the negative first as I'm trying to digest all of the implications of this move
It assures me that I gravitated to the correct blog when I came here. We come to the negative first, then move towards acceptance……….kinda like the grief process…….not sure what that says about us……..if I am truely speaking for more than myself……..
by Steve Hovley on Nov 19, 2008 8:58 PM EST up reply actions
Or the KC Star Royals section
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by Matt Klaassen on Nov 20, 2008 12:01 AM EST up reply actions
Agreed
. . . a weary nation turns to Gil Meche
Standard ESPN gripe
My biggest negative with the trade is that when I saw the news on the morning Sportscenter it was listed as “Red Sox trade” on the sidebar. I only stuck around and watched because, hey, it was baseball news in November. I thought it’d be about the Red Sox, but it was about the Royals!
Kansas City Royals: your 2006 and 2007 NL Central champions!
Biggest possible negative.... (And I think it is likely)
Ross Gload as the 4th outfielder.
Go Royals!
by BabyBlues on Nov 19, 2008 4:10 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I think this actually decreases the chance that Gload is on the team by a little
The Royals have added players at both of his positions (1B and OF). There is increasingly little room for Gload on a 4-man bench.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 19, 2008 4:16 PM EST up reply actions
with Grudz and Gload gone...
…who would pick up the slack in GRIT?
We've got a new speedy, defensivey, can't-hit CFer named after a breakfast cereal
That’s pretty gritty.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 19, 2008 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
In journalistic embarassments, Hillman lineup idiocy, and Dayton Moore spin
yeah, it will be hard to keep up with it all.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by Matt Klaassen on Nov 20, 2008 12:02 AM EST up reply actions
COCO SUCKS!!!!!!!!
this trade sucks!!!
the royals will finish ’09 with 150 losses, guaranteed.
ramram will win the next 11 mvp awards.
i thought the red sox only traded players that they had their house organs in the press...
… spend weeks bashing beforehand?
did I miss a bunch of “coco is a bad character guy who doesn’t respect the game” stories?
I know during the ’07 playoffs there was the Jacoby Honeymoon and claims by the Simmonsites that Coco was “lackadaisical” so maybe that counts
This discussion split has divided our community when we need to come together most
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
...therefore, I will be suspending my campaign and returning to...
wait, shit, I’m not campaigning for anything right now.
Must find something to campaign for…
My dislikes:
This is a short-term trade. It costs the team money (Coco’s salary of $6MM in 2009 and an option of $8MM in 2010) and doesn’t leave them with any gains past 2010. This team probably won’t be ready to compete until after that. If you want to move Ramirez, why not for prospects, even mediocre ones? They’ll leave more money to spend when the team can really compete and might actually produce in that time frame, too.
If you just look at production vs. cost over the next two seasons, it’s not a bad trade. Crisp is a better baseball player than Mike Jacobs.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
I agree
This is a short-term improvement that doesn’t help in the long-term. He could have traded for a similar player with worse numbers in the short-term but more upside potential in the long-term, with more years of team control. If the Royals were one Coco Crisp short of contention, then it would make more sense. But they aren’t.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 19, 2008 5:23 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe Moore Will
Flip him at the deadline to the Mets or someone likr them who thinks they’re in contention. That would make sense; Crisp would bring back more than Ramirez would have. I think that’s the best we could hope for.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Nov 19, 2008 5:44 PM EST up reply actions
and mike Jacobs is better than Ross Gload
Dayton Moore = learning.
At this rate, by 2012 he’ll sign or trade for a league-average position player.
Yes we can!
Yes we can!
Yes we can!
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by Matt Klaassen on Nov 20, 2008 12:03 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Is it possible....
…that there is another move DM has in the works that will bring talent to our bull pen?? I mean, I realize this is a short-term move, but if we can get just a little quality pitching and Butler and Gordon can come even close to within reach of their potential, I think we have a team that contends next year.
Maybe, but I think probably not
Moore doesn’t need to trade real talent to build a bullpen. He might trade something minor for an undervalued pitcher (as he did to acquire R. Ramirez), but I think it more likely that he’ll make a small FA signing or two, make a waiver claim or two, and/or maybe pick someone up in the Rule 5 draft. And if he makes a trade for a reliever, I think it would probably be in the last 7-10 days before opening day when some reliever is out of options and another team is looking to dump him (as he did to acquire R. Ramirez).
But I think it is quite possible that Moore might be looking to acquire a starting pitcher. Perhaps DDJ for a good SP. I’m not predicting it, but I think it is reasonably possible.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 19, 2008 6:59 PM EST up reply actions
That's actually what I was thinking... wouldn
by FretFriendly on Nov 19, 2008 7:01 PM EST up reply actions
oops...
wouldn’t Davies make a better fit in the bullpen if we can get a good SP? I think he has great potential, but he’s just not starter quality yet…
by FretFriendly on Nov 19, 2008 7:03 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, but
I do agree that Davies would likely be a better reliever than a starter. I really think he’s best suited to that role. But he did make some good strides last year as a starter. I’d really like him to get a good number of starts next year so that the Royals can determine once and for all if he’s any better than a #5 MLB SP. But, perhaps if he’s the long man out of the pen and, therefore the #6 on the SP depth chart, he’ll still probably get a significant number of starts because there will always be some injuries and poor performances that make a rotation go more than 5 deep.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 19, 2008 7:15 PM EST up reply actions
Davies would be great in the bullpen
If you know, we had 3 other guys to fit #3,4, and 5 in the rotation. Are you guys smoking crack? Do you want to put Gobble into a starting role again? Davies was easily better than Hochevar and Banny last year. Banny deserves the bullpen or Omaha, Hochevar will hopefully come around.
What I love is Crisp's batting stance
Oh wait, this is the negative thread
I'm about to change my username to DannyDuffyfan
by jackie ballgame on Nov 19, 2008 7:13 PM EST reply actions
His stance horrifies me
His head always seems to be twisted an unnatural amount, like someone photoshopped it on
True...
… but along with what you were saying, if somehow we could pick up a strong #3 or #4 starter with the several moves still left, Davies would provide a very strong asset to the bullpen and of course, depth to the starters…
MGL
weighs in, due to my prompting in a thread. He was brief.
Wow, my projection for Crisp has really changed. He had an awful year, defensively – double digit negative in CF. He did have a good year (around zero) offensively though.
In total, I have him only 1.25-1.5 WAR for 09. Maybe that is another reason why BOS traded him. Maybe they think his defensive value has really declined.
Ramon Ramirez, after a good year in 08, has a pretty good projection. About .5 to .75 runs better than replacement as a reliever.
KC may have gotten a little hosed. Very little, if any, equity in Crisp, while Ramirez has some value and makes the ML min salary (I think). Wouldn’t that be a shock? KC’s FO gets hosed by Boston’s.
Just another opinion from a respected expert to weigh. I have no idea how they judge relievers vs. replacement…
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
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