Olivo coming back for 2009

The Royals and Olivo agreed to both pick up the option and they added a 2010 option. They also removed Matt Tupman from the 40-man roster and added Brayan Pena.

Could this spell the end of John Buck's time in KC?

-- Also, Yabuta was outrighted to Omaha, and Angel Sanchez was claimed by the Blue Jays.

about 1 year ago Top Ramen 39 comments 0 recs |

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Buck’s tenure in KC is over, can’t imagine DM would go into ‘09 with Buck/Olivo platoon after last year’s ill fated attempt of the same thing. But I also thought he was adamant about improving team OBP. (at least we’re not beating this Jacobs thing into the ground, huh?)

by dn_311 on Nov 3, 2008 5:39 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I look forward to Dayton Moore's continued pursuit of better team OBP

next transaction: David DeJesus traded Jeff Francoeur

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Nov 3, 2008 5:43 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

What do the defensive numbers say about Olivo?

I could be mistaken, but I thought I’d read he was pretty crappy at all aspects except for the CS%.

by Top Ramen on Nov 3, 2008 5:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If you want to improve team OBP

look within. RamRam has a career .500 OBP. DH him I say

by dn_311 on Nov 3, 2008 5:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

so...

by may olivo will be bitching again

he doesn’t seem like the smartest guy

by royalsreview on Nov 3, 2008 5:49 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Wouldn't be a total shock if Buck got non-tendered

another Baird-era leach on the lifeblood of the team

Gonna take a long time to clean up that mess… Butler, Kila, Buck, Teahen, Dejesus, Aviles, Gordon, Greinke…

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Nov 3, 2008 6:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If Jacobs could still catch, he and Olivo would be a mirror image platoon

I would have preferred to take a chance on Buck finally showing his on-base and power skills in the same season, but for the sake of the 2009 Royals, yeah, it might be better to shop or non-tender Buck and pickup a true platoon partner like Javier Valentin.

by Gopherballs on Nov 3, 2008 6:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think Buck's better than Olivo, too

I’m trying to keep perspective, but this offseason is less than a week old and already pissing me off

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Nov 3, 2008 6:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Just wait for the Edgar Renteria signing

by Gopherballs on Nov 3, 2008 6:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If John Buck leaves,

things will never be the same.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Nov 5, 2008 6:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Greatest Mormon Athelete ever

yes, even better than Shawn Bradley

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Nov 5, 2008 7:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I love this move...I don't understand everyones love for Buck

His CS% is bad and getting worse as he ages. His footwork is slow and blocking balls is average at best. Halfway thru the season his bat turns to mush and he has average power at best. Split the AB’s against RHP with B.Pena/Olivo and give all the LHP AB’s to Olivo.

It takes 46 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip 'em the bird.

by kcscoliny on Nov 3, 2008 6:39 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Moves So Far

While alot of these moves haven’t been popular at least he is active and seems to have a plan to retool the roster. Hopefully he continues and can start netting something bigger and better.

It takes 46 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip 'em the bird.

by kcscoliny on Nov 3, 2008 6:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

When you consider everything, Olivo was the right choice.

The mysterious Buck advantage of being one run better for the pitching staff disappeared the same time Buck went something like 3 for 60. Buck did not get as many at bats against lefties, but taking hitting out of it, Olivo was better in every category you would care to mention. Caught stealing, speed, game calling (doesn’t have the pitchers try to nibble as much), and power. The Royals could not have traded Olivo he just would have walked into free agency, and his B status this year would have gotten us nothing because he was a day short of it counting. If we keep Olivo he may bring a draft pick next year. We may get something for in trade for Buck. Yes, Olivo is not a long term solution, but Buck was easily replaceable and was not going to get the Royals into contention either. Just in general you have to perform and you cant go 0 for a month.

Go Royals!

by BabyBlues on Nov 3, 2008 7:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

"Just in general you have to perform and you cant go 0 for a month."

Unless you make the most on the team. In that case, you’re allowed to call out the rest of your teammates.

by Top Ramen on Nov 3, 2008 7:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I hope this forms the second half

of our DH platoon as well as our backup C situation.

I think Buck gets tendered which allows the Royals to shop him, and it ends up a ST battle between him and Pena for the job. I definitely think Pena has the advantage though.

So Pena would play everyday at C and Olivo would spell him a couple times a week against lefties.
This would allow Olivo to DH as well against lefties and have Jacobs sit.

Accidentally not thedude925 anymore. I do hate this new name.

by wildthang on Nov 3, 2008 7:39 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Pena cannot hit RHP either

so he is not a platoon option for Olivo.

by Gopherballs on Nov 3, 2008 8:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Details like that didn't stop the Buck/Olivo platoon from happenning though

by Top Ramen on Nov 3, 2008 8:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Can't wait for the Jacobs/Gload platoon

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Nov 3, 2008 9:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

considering

league average for a catcher in 2007 was 265/.327/.405 for a .732 OPS

and against righties he was .253/.352/.392 in AAA so he was .742 OPS.

Granted he was in AAA and his numbers against righties will probably decline if played full-time but if he can mash lefties like he usually does then surely he could beat Buck’s .669 OPS playing nearly everyday.

Accidentally not thedude925 anymore. I do hate this new name.

by wildthang on Nov 4, 2008 1:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Pena's MLE translation v. RHP

.206/.302/.303, .605 OPS.

A .742 OPS in the PCL is lousy.

by Gopherballs on Nov 5, 2008 12:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

To everyone who is ragging on John Buck's offensive output:

Keep in mind that Buck has a higher career OPS+ than Olivo and is two years younger.

Buck’s career OBP is a Jacobs-like .298, but is still significantly better than Olivo’s .275. Even their career SLG’s aren’t especially far apart (.398 for Buck versus .411 for Olivo). The notion that Olivo represents an offensive upgrade over Buck is a myth perpetuated by the fact that Olivo had an abnormally good season last year and Buck had an abnormally bad season. To give some perspective on the capabilities of both guys, Olivo’s OPS+ last year was 91. Buck’s 2007 OPS+ was 90.

Olivo doesn’t know how to take a walk, strikes out more often than Buck, and would turn our lineup into an even bigger OBP sinkhole than it already is.

Olivo’s CS% is nice, but a pitcher’s windup and release often has as much to do with whether a base stealer gets caught as with the catcher’s throw to second or third. Buck has otherwise been a solid defensive catcher…and I’m not saying he’s the second coming of Johnny Bench, but I think he is a better overall catcher than Olivo.

by DarthYoshi on Nov 3, 2008 7:47 PM EST reply actions 2 recs

PrOPS, last three years

for those who don’t know, PrOPS is J. C. Bradbury’s “luck-neutralizing” tool that has a generator at the Hardball Times. It’s sort of alike a BABIP adjustment for SLG, ISO, and OBP as well. It’s not perfect, but it is interesting. Here are Buck and Olivo’s PrOPs/actual OPS the last three years.

Buck

2008: .710 /.669 (unlucky)
2007: .809/.738 (unlucky)
2006 .753 /.702 (unlucky)

Olivo

2008: .705/.722 (lucky — note that Buck’s PrOPS is higher this year)
2007: .690/.667 (unlucky)
2006: .730/.727 (slightly unlucky)

Buck’s PrOPS is higher every year. He’s two years younger. Olivo’s hacktastic approach means he might get a bit lucky one year (especially when he’s got disproportionate PAs against lefties, as in this year).

Buck’s no monster, but he’s a better offensive bet going forward. Then again, Olivo fits in better with DMGM’s “we have to increase our OBP by getting more low OBP players” philosophy that he’s been implementing since he took charge.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Nov 3, 2008 8:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Well now that I think about it.

The Royals could get something for Olivo now that the Royals were able to pick up the mutual option!
However, that seems pretty cold to agree to a mutual option and then trade the player. :-(

Go Royals!

by BabyBlues on Nov 3, 2008 8:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

This Is Business

Olivo should be happy to draw a MLD salary, no matter where. If he’s traded, we don’t need to worry about his feelings.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Nov 3, 2008 8:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That would be awesome

trade him to NYC — Joe Girardi’s supposedly a real fan.

Nah, NY might win. Trade him to the Nationals for Ryan Langerhans.

Better yet: JoGui and Olivo for Langerhans and Kearns

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Nov 3, 2008 9:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Kearns hates baseball I think

he used to pal around with Adam Dunn in cincy.

Accidentally not thedude925 anymore. I do hate this new name.

by wildthang on Nov 4, 2008 1:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Wasn't He Supposed

To be good or something?

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Nov 4, 2008 8:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm actually kind of surprised Olivo agreed to the option

I figured he’d have no problem getting more than 2.7M on the free agent market. Heck, Jason Larue just picked up a guaranteed 950K from the Cardinals, and he hasn’t come close to hitting a baseball in about 4 years.

by Top Ramen on Nov 3, 2008 8:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not fully convinced

We should keep Olivo or Buck. They’re not much offensively, and I haven’t been bowled over by their defense.

Gregg Zaun/Brayan Pena ’09!!!

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Nov 3, 2008 9:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

You know I love to bring my Z-Game

but (and keep in mind I still think Mark Teahen can be a league-average player, so take this with a grain of salt) I do think there are signs that Buck can still be an above-average offensive catcher — decent patience, and seemingly good power when he makes contact. I don’t think .240/.320/.430 is a crazy dream.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Nov 3, 2008 9:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Perhaps

But I still think you’re a nutjob!!!

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Nov 3, 2008 9:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

But Will He

Throw someone out by ’11?

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Nov 3, 2008 11:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Angel Sanchez

Remember when he was the heir apparent to Angel Berroa?

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Nov 3, 2008 9:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

the he was the heir apparent to Tony Pena, Jr.

Now he’s just the backup John MacDonald

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Nov 3, 2008 9:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

"This is the first time I've ever heard of it," he said.

nice.

by wetleg on Nov 3, 2008 10:11 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Link didn't work

Here’s Dick coming at you

The quotes made it sound like both Olivo and Buck would stay around — unlike the 1B situation where the quotes made it obvious something was going to happen.

by Top Ramen on Nov 3, 2008 11:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm still not sure I like this

We had a big discussion at the end of the regular season about this. I couldn’t decide then either. Both C’s are still here so I guess I’m not sure still. I think Olivo is more of a baseball player. He has a higher skill set than Buck in the overall game. Both will wear out if not given days off though. I think Pena is the guy and Buck is out. Am I fan? Not sure yet…

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Nov 3, 2008 10:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs