Projecting the Royals' 2009 Pitching With Bill James (Seriously, It's Just a Title)
Have you seen one of these guys?
Q: How can I tell the difference betweeen 'Spreadsheet Baseball' and 'Fun with Google Spreadsheets'?
A: The first is posted (usually as a "Story") by one of the site moderators. The second is posted either as a FanPost or FanShot by some creep who lives on the wrong side of the 49th parallel. The first is well-written and clear. The second attempts to be colloquial, but the maddening typos and run-on sentences make it difficult, if not impossible to read. The first, when dealing with player projections for the upcoming baseball season, utilizes Baseball Prospectus' rightly revered PECOTA projection program. The second uses whatever free projections happen to be lying around the internet -- and who knows where they've been. The first comments on said projections briefly and with informed insight. The second complicates things with (most likely poorly applied) mathematical formula and combinations of metrics and offers inane commentary cloaked in an Emperor's wardrobe of objectivity.
Most importantly in the current context, the first is rare and thus valuble, like gold. The second comes unbidden, unwanted, but yet unstoppable, like a sinus infection. Which one are you more likely to receive this winter?
In other words, only NHZ can save you now...
Here (finally) is the pitching companion to my earlier piece discussing the Bill James Projections and the 2009 Royals offense. I held off because I knew that this probably wouldn't be as good, and also I was a bit uneasy with how to convert ERA/FIP, etc. into wins/runs above replacement. Thanks to Sky Kalkman of Beyond the Box Score fame, I now have some simple formulae for doing so, and so away we go...
[Yeah, it was a long, rambling introduction. At least I use the "intro paragraph" function so that, just in case the post makes the front page, it doesn't push half-a-week's worth of posts off.]
As with the piece on James' hitter projections, I want to remind everyone that I am not endorsing or criticizing the James projections either as a whole or in part. I simply thought I'd post a bit about them and try to translate them into terms that make it easier to see whether projections have the Royals getting better or worse, overall. The hitting projections, as I surmised, have the Royals offense improving by 5-6 wins over 2008 in 2009 (although I did note that the James offensive projections are notoriously optimistic). So I'm going to translate the James projections into runs above replacement so that we can get a better sense of what some people are projecting the Royals pitching to do next year beyond simply "hey, it looks like that guys ERA might suck next year" and stuff like that.
Boring Methodology Stuff
(If you find this stuff intolerable, skip down to "Starter Projections")
There are plenty of places to read about replacement level and the debates about whether it is useful and what it should be on the internet, so I won't get into it here. I will simple say that the most basic and intuitive way to think about a player's value above (or below!) replacement level, whether in retrospect or prospect, and whatever stat you are using, is as follows:
rate above replacement times playing time = value above replacement level.
Pretty obvious, no? Then for projections, the idea is
projected rate above replacement times projected playing time = value above replacement
Of course, while the formula is simple, the assumed knowledge is difficult: What is the projection? How much playing time will the player get? What is replacement level?
Well, the first question is easy for the purposes of this post: we're just going to take the James projections and see what they say. They also project playing time, so that's taken care of (although that's even iffier than the ERA/FIP projections). I will also prorate the suggested rate over replacement over an equal number of innings for all starters and relievers for better comparison, and to allow people to do their own simple calculations based on personal playing time estimates.
So... what is the replacement level for pitchers? Since their playing time works out different than hitters, we can't just prorate say, 2.25 wins (about 23 runs) below average over a year with respect to plate appearances. Rather, we'll use a percentage of rate stat (ERA, FIP, tRA, etc.) as replacement level. I will follow the suggestion that for starters, replacement level is 128% of league average. For relievers, replacement level is 107% of league average. That's a partial explanation for using the following formulae for determining a pitchers runs above replacement with ERA as the preferred rate stat:
Starters: ((lgavgERA*1.28)-playerERA)*(IP/9.0)
Relievers: ((lgavgERA*1.07)-playerERA)*(IP/9.0)
These are pretty simple formulas. There are more complex ones based on pythagorean winning percentage and all that, but frankly, this was quicker and more easily understood.
One more thing before I (finally) get to the projections. Tables are hard to fit into margins for fanposts without really screwing things up. For the full tables with all sorts of boring stuff, check out the detailed Google Spreadsheet I made for this. Here, I've only filled in just what I could.
Here are the some explanations for the headings that appear in this post:
ERA, IP, HR, BB, SO, and FIP are all taken from the Bill James projections posted at Fangraphs.
ERArar is ERA-based runs above replacement, as detailed above. For starters, the formula is ((lgavgERA*1.28)-playerERA)*(IP/9.0), for relievers, it is ((lgavgERA*1.07)-playerERA)*(IP/9.0)
FIPrar is FIP-based runs above replacement. Since (in theory) ERA is usually supposed to regress to FIP since FIP is a better representation of "luck-free" peformance, I've scaled it against league ERA replacement level. If that's messed up, shoot me. For starters, the formula is ((lgavgERA*1.28)-playerFIP)*(IP/9.0), for relievers, it is ((lgavgERA*1.07)-playerFIP)*(IP/9.0).
ERArar+/- and FIPrar+/- measure how much the James projects have the player improving in runs from 2008 to the projected 2009 .
FIPrar200 and FIPrar70 prorate each pitcher's FIP-performance over "full-time" performance (200 innings for a starter, 70 for a reliever) for comparison purposes.
So, without any further ado, here are the projections. And please, once again, keep in mind, that I am not endorsing them one way or the other. They are not mine. Don't shoot the messenger (oh, it's not that bad).
Starter Projections
|
Player |
ERA |
IP |
HR |
BB |
SO |
FIP |
ERArar |
ERArar+/- |
FIPrar |
FIPrar+/- |
FIPrar200 |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Z.Greinke |
3.98 |
194 |
23 |
52 |
156 |
4.05 |
32.85 |
-14.55 |
31.34 |
-14.04 |
32.31 |
|
G.Meche |
4.1 |
210 |
24 |
77 |
160 |
4.32 |
32.76 |
-4.61 |
27.63 |
-18.38 |
26.31 |
|
K.Davies |
4.79 |
139 |
18 |
66 |
100 |
4.93 |
11.03 |
-8.07 |
8.87 |
-8.22 |
12.76 |
|
B.Bannister |
4.26 |
173 |
22 |
52 |
107 |
4.62 |
23.91 |
27.54 |
16.99 |
5.84 |
19.64 |
|
L.Hochevar |
4.95 |
146 |
20 |
52 |
100 |
4.84 |
8.99 |
7.97 |
10.77 |
-5.72 |
14.76 |
|
B.Duckworth |
5.07 |
76 |
9 |
32 |
53 |
4.77 |
3.66 |
-0.90 |
6.20 |
1.63 |
16.31 |
|
R.Tejeda |
4.86 |
60 |
7 |
35 |
49 |
4.98 |
4.29 |
-3.78 |
3.49 |
-4.68 |
11.64 |
Comments:
Reliever Projections
|
Player |
ERA |
IP |
H |
HR |
BB |
SO |
FIP |
ERArar |
ERArar+/- |
FIPrar |
FIPrar+/- |
FIPrar70 |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
J Soria |
2.16 |
61 |
45 |
4 |
17 |
63 |
2.97 |
16.54 |
-6.31 |
11.05 |
0.50 |
12.69 |
|
R. Mahay |
4.07 |
60 |
57 |
6 |
29 |
51 |
4.3 |
3.54 |
-4.91 |
2.01 |
-1.24 |
2.34 |
|
R. Tejada |
4.86 |
60 |
59 |
7 |
35 |
49 |
4.98 |
-1.73 |
-3.62 |
-2.53 |
-5.80 |
-2.95 |
|
Y. Yabuta |
4.17 |
36 |
36 |
5 |
14 |
29 |
4.56 |
1.72 |
2.20 |
0.16 |
2.50 |
0.32 |
|
J. Peralta |
4.09 |
53 |
54 |
8 |
14 |
41 |
4.52 |
3.01 |
10.64 |
0.48 |
9.96 |
0.63 |
|
L.Nunez |
4.01 |
58 |
58 |
7 |
19 |
41 |
4.44 |
3.81 |
-5.20 |
1.04 |
-3.75 |
1.25 |
|
R.Ramirez |
3.74 |
67 |
62 |
6 |
28 |
62 |
3.81 |
6.41 |
-9.61 |
5.89 |
-8.55 |
6.15 |
[NB: I have not included leverage index in figuring out what the relievers are worth here. That is very important because, obviously, Joakim Soria should not be (nor do I think the projection systems intend him to be) projected to be about as valuable as Mike Jacobs in a good year. However, I'm not satisfied with my knowledge of how to incorporate leverage index for relievers in general, especially in projections. Leverage says less about the relievers specific pitching abillity than the value of the innings and situations in which he has pitched. Clearly, the reliever has little or not control over this. I could, of course, just calculate it for the Proven Closer(TM), since we have a pretty good idea of how he will be used, but then that just exacerbates the mythical difference between the "ability" of the closer and the other relievers. If I do this for other projection systems, I might include leverage then. Just letting people know what is up.]
This seems like a good time to remind everyone that this is just my analysis and rough "translation" into run values of the Bill James projections, not my own personal projections or endorsement of said projections. Yeah... they didn't even bother to project Gobble, Pumpkinhead, or Rosa (how can they neglect ears like that?). And who knows what roles (if any) those guys will play on the Royals next year. In general, keep in mind that as unpredictable as pitchers in general are to project, relievers, due to their varying usage patterns (and the small sample size relative to "true talent" inherent in said usage) are doubly difficult to project.
Soria is so good it isn't even all that interesting to discuss him at length. His ERA was probably a bit luck-derived this year, but we all know how "good" ERA is as a stand-alone measure of pitching ability. The James' projections recognize this by showing an improvement in his FIP. No worries here. Good thing the rotation is totally fine...
As for the rest of the bullpen... well, I would have included Nunez and RamRodRam
for the sake of once of showing the hilarious MLB mugshot of Ramon Ramirez's
perfectly round head, or, as Royals Review once put it, "he looks like a little kid who is supposed to be in bed peeking around the corner." It really hurts to see that the official MLB mugshot already has him as a digitized Rex Sock. Anyone got the Royals version? Seriously, there isn't much to say, other than the projections show what most of us (well, at least me) thought -- while Ramirez probably pitched a bit or a lot over his hear this year, he's still considerably better than anyone the Royals have left in the 'pen other than the guy who should be in the rotation. Mahay's great first half seems to have made people forget how badly he bombed in the second half. He projects as above replacement level here, but only slightly better than Nunez at best. Maybe adequate as a setup guy, but he's not in Ramirez's class anymore, according to the projections. The wildcards are: (a) Tejeda, given that his projection waffles between him starting and relieving (and who some think might have the stuff to be a very good reliever); (b) Rosa, who isn't projected at all (although I'll leave it to you prospect hounds out there to debate whether he should/can start or not); and (c) Dayton Moore's ability to find another Ramirez on the cheap, especially without another Greinke waiting around like in 2007 to bolster his bullpen-building reputation. Whatever one thinks of the projections, I think it's safe to say that, at the moment, the 2009 bullpen as a whole looks far inferior to the 2008 edition.
Concluding Thoughts
Given the difficulties in projecting pitching (especially relievers, and especially since the projections were done before Nunez and Ramirez were traded away), I'm a bit leery over setting out what they predict as far as overall improvement or decline for the Royals pitchering staff. Remember that 10.5 runs = one win. Excluding Tejeda from starting, by ERA the James projections have the starters improving by about 7.4 runs, or about 0.7 wins. By FIP, however, they are projected to decline by about 39 runs, or 3.7 wins.
The relievers get more complicated because I didn't use leverage, nor do I have projections for the bodies brought in to replace Nunez and Tejada. But I will give my my extremely rough (leverage-free) estimate of what the James projections say. By unleveraged ERArar, the current Royals bullpen is projected to be about 27 runs worse than last season's, or 2.6 wins. By unleveraged FIPrar, the bullpen is projected to be about 13.3 runs, or about 1.3 wins worse.
Recall that my back-of-the-envelope calculations had the always-hitter-positive James projections seeing the Royals offense improving by about 5.5 wins. Well, we haven't taken defense into account at all, which could improve by a bit with Crisp moving into center and DDJ into left, or a lot if the Royals figure out that Teahen is a superior player (salaries aside) to Guillen with defense included. Anyway, with all the qualifications re: leverage, defense, and as-of-yet unacquired or unprojected relievers noted, using ERArar one might say that the James projections see the Royals as improving by 5.5 + 0.7 - 2.6 = 3.6 wins. Using FIPrar, we get 5.5 - 3.7 - 1.3 = 0.5 wins. Remember to take this with a shaker full of salt -- and that these aren't my predictions.
I hope you've found these posts at least somewhat interesting. It was a nice chance for me to pretend to do real analysis while simply adding up numbers and cracking my usual assortment of dumb jokes. One last thing -- while PECOTA is NHZ's territory, would people be interested in me doing this when other projections systems (like CHONE and ZiPS) come out? I don't mind wasting my own time writing stuff like this, but only if other people don't mind wasting theirs reading it.
3 recs |
19 comments
Comments
How you have the patience to type something that long is awesome
Oh yea, and Zack will be better than that next year. Yep, I had to be that guy who said it. Truth, though.
Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.
by doublestix on Dec 1, 2008 2:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
a bounceback from Banny would be beautiful...
but i’m not sure if i see it
by royalsreview on Dec 1, 2008 2:59 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think in the above projections, Hochevar will end up being significantly better than that and Bannister significantly worse. Switch their ERA’s and you might be about right (according to my SWAG).
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 1, 2008 3:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
d_f
Are you going to do one of these for each of the major projection systems (Chone, ZiPS, PECOTA) as they come out? This is great stuff. I’d particularly be interested in an aggregate. Last year, I posted a mega-projection for Royals players, basically averaging their BJ, Marcel, Chone, PECOTA and ZiPS projections. Taking something like that and then crunching their numbers as you’ve done for BJ would be very interesting.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 1, 2008 3:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
yeah, I was thinking about it all along
unless it’s “your thing.” I didn’t realize you’d done it last year.
I’m still not satisfied with the way I’m handling relievers. I might try to figure out how to make the “PythagPat” way (or whatever it’s called) work. But that’s doesn’t mean I can’t do the aggregte. I’ll probably do separate posts on CHONE and ZiPS. The Bill James thing is just a warm-up. PECOTA rules, of course, but NHZ usually does that one. So I probably won’t do a separate post.
If I do the aggregate, I’m not sure what I’ll include. I’d want to include CHONE, ZiPS, and PECOTA, for sure, but it depends on (1) how long we have to wait to get the CHONE/ZiPS csv files at fangraphs (so that I can calculate how each system projects league average); and (2) how I feel about using PECOTA without incorporating PECOTA’s projected league average, since I’m pretty sure they won’t let me download the entire projection into my database/spreadsheet).
Anyway, that is what I’ve sort of been planning for a while… although another issue is how much of my super-duper secret knowledge I want to keep for the annual prediction contest and my inevitable date with a Royals Review t-shirt.
If I do include Marcels and James, they will be weighted less that the others.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 1, 2008 4:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
unless it’s "your thing." I didn’t realize you’d done it last year.
Don’t f’ing mess with my things! All I did was average out the projections, and I think all I averaged was their rate stats. Once all of the projections come out (PECOTA will be last as always — BP is the prima donna of sabermetrics), somebody who has access to all of them can run the mega-projection. I’d be happy to do it. What I didn’t do last year was take all of the stats from the projections and crunch them as you have been, to figure a WAR, RAR, or any metric showing “total value” or something approximating it. I’d be happy to leave that to you. One of the many reasons I didn’t do that (laziness is also on the list), is that I don’t really like going by a projection system’s playing time estimates. If a guy has been a front line starting pitcher for the last 8 years, then you know what his role is going to be and can project his IP based on his age and what he’s done as a full-time SP. But the roles for many players are much more speculative than that. Neither you, nor I, nor BP has any idea how many PA’s Teahen will be given the opportunity to have next year. The same goes for many players. I guess that is why I focus on the rate stats in the projections. The rest is of value, but of course has to be taken with its particular grains of salt.
Be patient. I can’t remember when the whole ZiPS spreadsheet became available last year. For some reason, I’m thinking January, but it might have been later. PECOTA should be out around then too. But I think any good mega-projection has to include CHONE, ZiPS and PECOTA. I think I’d throw BJ in there too, but not Marcel. Giving them lower weight if you use one or both makes sense.
Anyway, that is what I’ve sort of been planning for a while… although another issue is how much of my super-duper secret knowledge I want to keep for the annual prediction contest and my inevitable date with a Royals Review t-shirt.
Screw your numbers. My gut says 81. Gut wins.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 1, 2008 4:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
playing time is the problem
When the better projections come out, I’ll do more of a “total value” projection where I get the players value over full-time (700 PAs) th en take 90% of that for more “realism” since almost no one plays that much. Maybe 85, too, for players over 30. 75 for catchers.
Pitchers, again, are the hard part. What would you or anyone else say is the pitching equivalent of 700 PAs or 162 games? 200 innings? 180?
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 1, 2008 5:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Pitchers, again, are the hard part. What would you or anyone else say is the pitching equivalent of 700 PAs or 162 games? 200 innings? 180?
So if we’re talking about a number for starting pitchers that represents the fullest of full seasons (which only a handful of players actually get to in a given season), I’d say somewhere in the 220-230 range.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 1, 2008 5:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's So Wimpy
http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/carltst01.shtml
http://www.baseball-reference.com/g/gibsobo01.shtml
http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/spahnwa01.shtml
http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/roberro01.shtml
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 1, 2008 8:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
I think Satchel Paige once pitched 200 innings in a week
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 1, 2008 9:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And He Took
The weekend off!
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 2, 2008 10:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
about playing time
I agree that, as projections of what the team will do with a player, playing time projections are problematic. But I don’t think they’re actually meant that way, and even if they are, they are still useful in this sense:
I think that when projection systems project a player, they don’t direclty project a rate stat like BA, OBP, ISO, SLG, wOBA, or whatever. They project each counting stat separately in accordance with plate appearances in the previous years (adjustment for age, etc.). So when the computer spits out the numbers, it’s giving how many home runs, doubles, triples, singles, steals, walks, etc. is projected from the data in how many PA/AB/IP one might expect. The idea isn’t to see how much the player plays, but to get the denominator in order to establish the rate of performance that can be expected from the player (wOBA being really good for this, as it is derived from linear weights to begin with).
Does that make sense? I’ve been thinking about this for a while, but haven’t been able to figure out how to explain myself clearly and succinctly.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 1, 2008 6:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Does that make sense?
I think so, and I agree with that. But the limitation I’m referring to is when you determine WAR, RAR, etc. from the combination of rate stats and counting stats (the latter of which were determined significantly by the projections estimation of the player’s playing time), that “total value” stat is limited by the accuracy of the playing time prediction. That doesn’t mean it is worthless. It just means that the estimated WAR or RAR for a player must be seen as, “he’s a 2.00 WAR player if he actually ends up getting 450 PA’s.” Of course metrics like FIPrar200 and RV/700 deal with this to some extent by giving every player an estimate based on the same PT.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 1, 2008 7:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
DF, This Post
Is a monumental undertaking the likes of which I cannot fathom producing. You richly deserve the two “analgoe” tags, and probably at least one more “scissoring”. Bravo!
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 1, 2008 8:28 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
(sigh)
I really wish that SBs weren’t so rare lately, but I’m so [swear word]ing busy right now that it’s kind of [swear word] amazing. In two [swear word]ing weeks I’ll be at a place where I feel like I can put the necessary effort in to write a worthwhile [swear word]ing article again. For the moment…just ugh. Can you feel the academic stress radiating off this comment?
I believe I may be cracking up. Finally, at long last. Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
by NHZ on Dec 2, 2008 5:59 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
By the way, guys,
I’m #5 in this pic. Second row, just to the left of the three goalkeepers. That pic makes me nostalgic. Sophomore year seems like half a lifetime ago.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
by NHZ on Dec 2, 2008 6:07 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'm glad you got a kick out of it
I thought posting your actual picture would be over the line. You know this is all out of fun, of course. Priorities… just giving you a hard time. It’s all about the ladies.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 2, 2008 11:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wish it were more about the ladies
Right now it’s more about a ton of work. Ugh.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
by NHZ on Dec 3, 2008 12:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Put me in the "Greinke's ERA is projected too high camp"
Also, I agree with NYRoyal in that Hochevar is likely to be better than Bannister in 2009.
As for Greinke, an ERA between 3.00 and 3.25 wouldn’t surprise me at all – he’s that good.
Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!
by loyal2sdad on Dec 2, 2008 10:51 AM EST reply actions 0 recs





















