Winter Meetings Day Three Overflow Thread
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 5:35 PM EST
405 comments
Apparently the re-acquisition of Jairo Cuevas has given rise to so much discussion that we need an overflow thread for day three of the WM before 6:00 EST. Maybe Cuevas will be the new Robinson Tejeda. Yes!
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Good lord
An overflow thread is deemed necessary AND ABSOLUTELY NOTHING HAS EVEN HAPPENED YET. I can’t imagine how many threads will be needed if and when Moore actually pulls the trigger on a signing or trade.
God, I love this website. Is it even possible there are a bigger group of Royals’ dorks somewhere out there on the Interwebs?
by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 10, 2008 5:40 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
When Farnsworth gets signed, the flood of posts will likely crash the site and all of the SB Nation sites
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 5:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
starting now
Founder of the Johnny Giavotella fan club.
by doublestix on Dec 11, 2008 3:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Indians looking to spend big money on an oft-injured closer
Kerry Wood has apparently accepted a 2 year, $20M offer. He’s heading to Cleveland for a physical. Are the Indians checking to make sure he’s really injured? What else would they expect to find in a Kerry Wood physical?
For all the talk about how sabermetric and statistically advanced the Indians front office is, they are still following the market’s biggest inefficiency: overpaying for a pitcher with a closer tag. I think they could have done better by signing two good $5M free agents, or anything more creative than throwing $20M at Kerry Wood.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 5:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Considering their bullpen problems last year
I don’t think its that bad a deal. Two years is a pretty safe way to handle an oft-injured guy. They don’t have a ton of holes on their roster that I can see, so I don’t know where else they would spend the money – maybe another SP? They can always use guys like Shoppach, Gutierrez and/or Francisco as trade bait to land a starting pitcher.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 10, 2008 5:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather have Wood 2/20 than K-Rod 3/37.
by djk royal on Dec 10, 2008 6:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, maybe. It's pretty close.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 6:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Considering that the need a 3B and Casey Blake went for less than that...
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 6:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Peralta should move to 3B
Asdrubal should move to SS. And they should sign Grudz for grit.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 10, 2008 6:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I heard a rumor they wanted to trade for Teahen...
Sorry Dayton.
by djk royal on Dec 10, 2008 6:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Lies like that will get you suspended from this site
No more lies!!!!!
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 6:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There are lies, damn lies, statistics...
and Dayton-Moore-Declared “Absolute Lies.”
by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 10, 2008 6:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sometimes I think he thinks statistics are absolute lies
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 6:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Disturbing
Simply disturbing
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 10, 2008 6:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They did have a bad bullpen
And I don’t think the way to build a good bullpen is to spend $10M on one player. I think $5M on two good relievers who don’t have the closer tag makes more sense. Otherwise you’re spending some millions merely because they guy has a certain word on his resume.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 6:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ordinarily I'd agree with you
But I think the market for relievers sucks this winter. Juan Cruz is about the only non-PROVEN CLOSER guy I like, and he costs a draft pick, unlike Wood.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 10, 2008 6:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fair point
I also think I’d prefer 3 $3.3M guys to one $10M guy (especially when you can’t count on that guy to pitch for a full season).
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 6:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but you gotta think...
that it would be hard to have three Yabutian mistakes in a row. Especially in one offseason.
And chances are, at least one of the three would not wear a shiny, electric-blue, superhero costume underneath his jersey every time he pitches. Even when it’s 95 degrees outside.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 10, 2008 6:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We had Yabuta, Tomko and Nomo last year.
by djk royal on Dec 10, 2008 6:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nomo was essentially league minimum
So that’s not “three Yabutian mistakes”
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 6:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And Yabuta’s salary was $2.5M, so not quite the $3.3M times three that I suggested for the Indians.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 6:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well lucky for us...
Yabuta is the gift that keeps on giving as he is still owed 3.5 million including buyout.
by djk royal on Dec 10, 2008 6:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The good news is that he might be decent in 2009
I don’t think his poor 2008 means that he has no chance of being decent in 2009.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 6:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Japaneese pitcher have to ajust to American baseballs.
They are heaver and don’t have as high of seams.
Go Royals!
by BabyBlues on Dec 10, 2008 7:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So That Explains
The Sheik’s flat, frisbee breaking balls.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 10, 2008 8:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And I never saw Tomko OR Nomo...
wearing a shiny blue SuperYabuta costume under their jerseys. So there.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 10, 2008 6:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Or three good relievers
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 6:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
In addition to being a "closer" Wood is pretty damn good pitcher when healthy.
by djk royal on Dec 10, 2008 6:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
True, but if he didn't have the closer tag, he'd be significantly cheaper
Shelling out money for a label is taking part in market inefficiencies. I’m glad the Indians aren’t above that.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 6:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They could be gunshy about 'unproven' closers after last year's Betancourt disaster.
by andrewmiller on Dec 10, 2008 7:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Could be
That may be their reason for this kind of move, but I don’t think it is a good reason.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 7:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
it's still weird
Betancourt just had a bad year last year. I’m not sure Wood’s all that much better than him. ERA and FIP for Wood are projected to be a lot better, but Betancourt’s tRA*s from the past couple years are superior. Just seems like an even bigger overpayment relative to likely quality than KRod.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 7:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, that seems crazy on the face of it
I’ll have to read around, look at more projections, etc. But even stretching his Marcels FIP such that his 7.5 RAR and giving a 2pLI, he’s still just a 1.5 WAR player.
Then again, other people ata BtBS saw the F-Rod deal much differently than me, so who knows. His tRA* the last couple years isn’t promising…
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 6:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I do think they're overpaying for Wood
but more importantly, I think “Yabuitian Mistakes” would be a GREAT name for a rock band.
by minda33 on Dec 10, 2008 7:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
no doubt
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 7:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That would also make a good name for a band
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 8:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Damn
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 8:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No offense...
but how have you not heard of Gwen Stefani yet?
by DarthYoshi on Dec 10, 2008 8:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It was a joke
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 8:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
RIP sarcasm font
How we long for you now
by minda33 on Dec 10, 2008 8:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Those were good times...
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 8:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
sigh
My internet sarcasm radar still needs some fine tuning. Oh well.
by DarthYoshi on Dec 10, 2008 8:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How About "The
Beatles"? No one’s using that one now.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 10, 2008 8:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the times right before we faced facts
before we knew who Sarah Palin was
before the stock market crash
before we realized that Guillen’s coming down from his hot streak wasn’t so much “ebb and flow” as “regression to talent level.”
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 10:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I can hear them now, kinda proggy
by andrewmiller on Dec 10, 2008 7:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Henry Kaiser would definitely be involved
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 7:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
I already have a running list of band names I want to use if/when I ever form my own garage band. The name perpetually at the top of the list is simply, “My Friend’s Band” (because everyone has a friend in a band and tells all their other friends, “hey, you gotta go see my friend’s band!”). But “Yabutian Mistakes” might sneak into the top 5.
by DarthYoshi on Dec 10, 2008 7:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My cover band is going to be called
Fan Fiction™
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 7:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
a couple of questions...
What music will you be covering?
Does the name of your band imply that you will be catering to the colossal base of ridiculously rabid Harry Potter fans?
I am only somewhat kidding with the second question. :)
by DarthYoshi on Dec 10, 2008 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
1) whatever I like and can play (from Zappa to ZZ to Ayler)
2) if by “catering” you mean “mocking”
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 8:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I always think of the most brilliant/hilarious band names
And then forget them right away. I like “My Friend’s Band,” a lot.
And just so we’re clear, “Yabuitian” is pronounced the same way as “Martian.” Like… Ya-boo-shin, right?
by minda33 on Dec 10, 2008 7:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm, not sure
I believe Yabuta’s name is pronounced with a hard ‘t’, which would make “Yabutian” prounced, “Ya-boo-tee-en.”
Any linguists in the building? Bueller?
by DarthYoshi on Dec 10, 2008 8:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well yeah, I know "Yabuta" is a hard-T sound
but when I first saw the word “Yabutian” it sounded like “Martian” in my head. It’s my ban; I’ll pronounce it however I want!
by minda33 on Dec 10, 2008 8:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry
Finals week = I make things more academic than they need to be sometimes.
If I ever emcee for your band (I’m great at getting audiences to hand over money…), I’ll pronounce it however you wish.
by DarthYoshi on Dec 10, 2008 8:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No need to apologize
I’m gearing up for finals too, so I feel your brain’s pain.
And thanks, I will look to you to emcee for the Yabutian Mistakes someday.
by minda33 on Dec 10, 2008 8:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's Better Without
The article; just “Yabutian Mistakes”. I once called a band “Bluerock”, thinking it would evoke a small town in the rural southeast (we played southern rock/barroom boogie shit), and not once did it appear correctly on a marquee. Probably the worst was “The Blues And Rock Band”. I hate naming bands and titling essays.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 10, 2008 8:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
someone say linguists.....
don’t ask my pal Mr. Vina…….but when I read the thread, I was saying “Ya-boo-tee-en,” for whatever that’s worth. However, a Comm Arts teacher I am not.
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Dec 10, 2008 8:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What time is the Rule 5 Draft tomorrow?
I can’t believe I’m that excited for something so lame.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 10, 2008 6:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Good question, I don't know
I think it usually starts in the morning…late morning?
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 6:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Royals about to sign HoRam...again
Dutton has a few details here.
1 year deal, apparently, HoRam will be given a shot at winning a spot in the rotation.
by DarthYoshi on Dec 10, 2008 6:11 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
that's gotta be a RickRoll
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 6:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
sadly, no
i was expect Mr. Rick, but got a real dutton article
by CollininCalifornia on Dec 10, 2008 6:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
NO! He speaks the truth!
DarthYoshi says: “I find your lack of faith disturbing.”
Even more disturbing than completely unfounded, absolute lies regarding the trading of Mark Teahen.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 10, 2008 6:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, the intimidating Force-hold
It shall be a powerful asset when I start my ministry. I can tell a congregant that I find their lack of faith disturbing, and then totally kick their ass in the name of Jesus.
Of course, it will be my fault that they have so little faith, since I will probably spend much of my time at first trying to convince my congregation that rum is a sacrament.
by DarthYoshi on Dec 10, 2008 6:19 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If you need any help on your sermon series
on why positional adjustments should be done after hitting and defensive are taken into account, rather than adjusted to league average for positions in a given year a la VORP, you can email me for advice.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 6:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
unfortunately,
unless I receive my first calling at the Blessed Church of Statheads 4 Jesus, I think I may have to begin my sermon series on a more basic level, like why batting average and saves are overrated as statistics indicative of qualitative talent.
Part II, though, includes an in-depth discussion on what the Apostle Paul had to say about OBP.
by DarthYoshi on Dec 10, 2008 6:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
(insert joke about Daytons Moore's church)
I’m a Mennonite, so i grew up in a denomination that really underrates Orlando’s namesake. But ow we’re definitely on shaky ground…
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 6:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Making a joke about Moore's church didn't even occur to me...
I’m already punching my one-way ticket to hell already, or at least to a long-time stay in the retirement home of purgatory, so I need to take those good-natured shots when I can.
I’m a mainline Protestant, so I love me some Paul. Though my denomination still shares some common practices with the Mennonites, like believer’s baptism. But a number of my extended relatives are Roman Catholic, so I’ve learned things like how to cross myself like a pro (the movie “Keeping the Faith” helped). I also recite a plus plus Hail Mary.
by DarthYoshi on Dec 10, 2008 8:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If its a guaranteed MLB contract
Which I suspect it is, I’m not really a fan of this
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 10, 2008 6:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If it is small, I have no problem
I think he’s a decent reliever.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 6:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Weren't you
bemoaning the fact that everyone is down on GMDM? At least we get one of our Ram’s back…
by labbadabba on Dec 10, 2008 6:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that's like saying...
We got one of the Dos Carlos back…and it happens to be the guy who played second base.
by DarthYoshi on Dec 10, 2008 6:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I figure
We can trade Teahen and Buck straight up for Beltran. See if it works the other way around. We’ll even dig up Wood and throw him in for good measure.
by labbadabba on Dec 10, 2008 6:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We get paulie orlando AND HoRam?
It’s an early Christmas! :)
Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.
by 306008 on Dec 10, 2008 6:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
it's a Festivus miracle!!!!!!
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Dec 10, 2008 8:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I Was Out
Shopping for the perfect pole all day. Yes, she said that.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 10, 2008 8:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
well played, sir
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Dec 10, 2008 9:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and that is what she said
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
by buddyball on Dec 10, 2008 10:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
H. Ramirez was good in 2008
Not great, but genuinely good. He’s overexposed as a starter, but pretty good as a reliever. As a reliever, he went mostly fastball-slider-cutter and pretty much did away with his weak curve and change. That’s what going to the bullpen does for a pitcher. You can afford to just throw your best pitches. He did, and the results (both old school and advanced metrics) were positive.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 6:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
you were right NYR
we essentially got Orlando for nothing
It takes 46 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip 'em the bird.
by kcscoliny on Dec 10, 2008 6:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Apparently
Hopefully we got H. Ramirez cheap.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 6:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Except that DMGM blocked Crisp, who will have to be traded by July when Orlando is ready
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 6:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, the Crisp trade is bad because he's blocking Paulo
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 6:26 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
no, Orlando's eta is 2011, Dayton is looking ahead.
Go Royals!
by BabyBlues on Dec 10, 2008 8:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Assuming a small deal
better him than the ’prof.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 6:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hopefully this is an either-or, not a both
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 6:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the projections aren't helping figure out what to think
since they (understandably) scoop up all the data fro m the last three years and project ERA etc. from both his starts and relief apperances…
Is this confirmed? I have to say I still don’t get it, but again, it all depends on the money.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 6:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No confirmation yet
Only Dutton’s report which is lightly sourced. Yeah, projections really aren’t going to help. They don’t break it down by reliever/starter and they don’t take into account the fact that he was throwing different pitches in 2008.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 6:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
If the state of our pitching staff is so abysmal that HoRam will be thrown into the rotation, then the Professor isn’t going to be able to help our bullpen much (not that he would have helped it much to begin with).
by DarthYoshi on Dec 10, 2008 6:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe Ho Ram will be the sixth starter
…and given a “shot” to make the rotation in spring training. That “shot” doesn’t cost the Royals much (unless the make the wrong decision).
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 6:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I was hoping that Rosa would be able to fill that role
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 6:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Me too, and he might still
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 6:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
When our rotation depth breaks down like this:
Greinke
Meche
Hochevar
Davies
Bannister
Rosa
…and HoRam is worse than all six of those guys, I’m not sure where that leaves him, except in the ‘pen. The only reason I could think of is that Rosa’s injuries from last year still have Moore and Hillman worried.
by DarthYoshi on Dec 10, 2008 6:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, that's cool, but I hope he at least gets a shot
if not, it’s not a huge deal, since right now (from what little I know) he’d also be the only guy likely to approach Ramirez’s performance from last year.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 6:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, there is reason for caution with regard to Rosa
I’d still start him some, as needed, with a hard ceiling on his innings pitched at about 120, maybe less.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 6:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Rosa pitched 99 innings last year
He also pitched 120 innings in 2007, so a limit of 120, maybe 125 innings, for 2009 sounds appropriate.
by DarthYoshi on Dec 10, 2008 6:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
dumb question, but I have to ask
obviously, spring training performance is irrelevant. But for pitchers, how should innings pitched in spring play into the ’total" for the year.
It’s not generally a bit deal, and I know the outings are generally shorter, but if, say, HoRam and Rosa are “competing” for a spot and Rosa throws 20 innings i the spring, and Rosa wins a spot, how should that figure into his ceiling of the year.
ON another note, it seems like the smart thing to do with Rosa would be to start him as a swingman and work him into the rotation halfway through the season, if needed, or to the setup role, if not.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 6:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and I realize that many people have made that last obvious suggestion
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 6:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
obviously, spring training performance is irrelevant. But for pitchers, how should innings pitched in spring play into the ’total" for the year.
I think innings pitched for a season always assume that this includes a good deal of warm up pitches, pitching on off days and the significant chunk of pitching in spring training (both “official” innings in A games and the many pitches thrown in B games, split squad games, intrasquad games, simulated games and workouts). In short, I wouldn’t count it at all, and assume it is part of the baseline for all pitchers.
ON another note, it seems like the smart thing to do with Rosa would be to start him as a swingman and work him into the rotation halfway through the season, if needed, or to the setup role, if not
That would be a safe way to keep him likely under the Rule of 30, but I think Rosa should be treated more gingerly than that. I wouldn’t have him exceed 120 innings and if he went into the rotation at the season’s midpoint, I think he’d likely exceed 120 innings. I think the smart thing is to start him as a swingman and then transition him into the highest leverage relief role that the quality of his pitching warrants. So if he is pitching very well, transition him into the #1 RH setup man role. I wouldn’t be afraid to give him some high leverage innings in April, just not too much right away.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 6:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
hmmm, I'm curious
about the last thing, since I know you’re probably the biggest Rosa fan on the site. Wouldn’t it make more sense to (within safety limits, of course) to let him pass/fail as a starter after the break then slot him in the rotation if it doesn’t work out? It just seems like teams (all teams, not just the Royals) have a hard time getting a guy chances to start once he’s a “bullpen guy.”
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 7:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Could be
I assume you meant, try him in the rotation and then send him to the bullpen if it doesn’t work out. I agree that organizations have a difficulty moving guys from the bullpen to the rotation. But I’d rather handle him cautiously to maximize his health and have him be a good bullpen guy than risk his health with too many starter innings so that he’s not relegated to the bullpen.
And, as much as I love Rosa, I am concerned that he might not be durable enough to ever be a 180 ip SP.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 7:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, I read it now and it was confusing
Let me try to get it straight and clear for myself, at least:
1) start him as a swingman/middle reliever
2) if he’s healthy at the break, expand his role so that he gets at least some starts to make sure he at least gets to the ceiling if he performs (and so that if it works out he can pitch 30 + whatever the next year).
3) if he can’t stay healthy pitching that much and/or fails in the starting role, he can always be move to a shorter relief role
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 7:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd tweak that
In 2009, I don’t want to wait until he proves he can’t stay healthy. I’d prefer to utilize some preventative therapy by making sure his innings stay down. What I’d do is start him as a swing/man middle reliever. He would also be the 6th starter. So whenever any starter needs to skip a start, or go on the DL or if someone is just stinking up the joint, Rosa gets the start. I’d give him a fairly hard innings cap at 120 or so. Once he hits the cap, shut him down. If he’s hit the cap, he would have made 7-10 starts. If he looked good in those starts, then I think the Royals would view him as a legitimate SP candidate for 2009.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 7:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that's what I meant to say
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 7:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And my hard cap might be a bit too strict
It might make sense to do more of what you suggested and when he hits the magic number, move him to the bullpen and just limit his innings that way. I really don’t know how cautious they need to be. But in 2009, I’d certainly err on the side of caution. And I’d sit him or even DL him at the first sign of soreness and not wait for it to blossom into something big.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 7:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I originally meant
was supposed to include all outings in the hard cap
no use screwing the guy up just to spare the KC fans the (admiitedly horrible) 4 extra innings of Yabuta/other crappy reliever that would occur downt he daisy chain once Rosa gets shut down.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 7:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
be prepared to be disappointed
he’ll make the bullpen and they’ll never look back. which is probably the right thing to do at this point.
Founder of the Johnny Giavotella fan club.
by doublestix on Dec 10, 2008 8:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, I think the bullpen is his likely permanent destination
Seems like a lot of lost starter potential. But maybe it is for the best. They know his physical condition better than I.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 8:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm Kinda Leery
Of his injury history, so I’d keep his exposure below the rule of 30, and lean toward actually decreasing his IP from last year’s total.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 10, 2008 9:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If his permanent home is the bullpen,
enjoy him all you can for the next two years. Unless he supplants Soria, he’ll probably be traded to fill a hole on the ML roster.
by Top Ramen on Dec 10, 2008 10:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Your forgetting Ducky!!!
Go Royals!
by BabyBlues on Dec 10, 2008 8:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm hoping that Dayton simply said...
that he could “compete” for a rotation spot just as an inducement to get him to sign. HoRam has clearly established that his value lies solely as a valued member of the pen.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 10, 2008 6:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, and it's not like H. Ramirez is a big FA who has to get major promises regarding his role in order to sign him
I bet he gets a pat on the back and an assurance they’ll look at him in spring training along with other starters.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 6:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nats offering Teix big boy contract 8/180
hmm I wonder how Aaron Crow feels about that.
It takes 46 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip 'em the bird.
by kcscoliny on Dec 10, 2008 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
wow
my salary chart doesn’t go out that far… and the monkeys don’t do as well with extremely good or part-time players, but that’s not totally insane. I wouldn’t go 8 years on anyone, though.
The Yanks really f-ed up. They should have been all over him for 6/150 earlier and let Sabathia wait.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 6:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If H. Ramirez does get signed, then I think some lefty pitcher is getting traded
Would they really go into the season with a bullpen with 3-4 lefties (Mahay, Bale, Gobble, and Ramirez), with Musser on deck as one of the guys who could get called up from Omaha and maybe Veal as a Rule 5 selection?
Or, maybe they plan to non-tender both Bale and Gobble and not select Veal.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 6:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'm not going to even attempt to gloat
But I do find it highly ironic that the day after NYRoyal and I engage in a vigorous debate about the whereabouts of ex-Braves joining our beloved Royals, Moore acquires another ex-Brave for a second time…..twice.
by Royals Nation on Dec 10, 2008 6:44 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
It amazes me that you still find this meaningful
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 6:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I just find it humorous, this time around.
I’m actually content with both signings, although neither are particularly meaningful. I was originally opposed to the HoRam signing, but was glad to be proven wrong. In retrospect, it was a good move in theory (exchanging him for Orlando). The Cuevas signing is a nice upside signing with almost no downturn. The bias is unquestionable, though, don’t you think, NYRoyal?
Note: I will say that the article references the Royals being willing to try HoRam out as starter. That would be a mistake, I think.
by Royals Nation on Dec 10, 2008 6:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The bias is unquestionable, though, don’t you think, NYRoyal?
No, of course it is not “unquestionable bias.” Good lord your thinking on this is incredibly narrow minded. Maybe, just maybe his acquisitions of Braves aren’t about his irrational bias towards them. Maybe it is because he knows a great deal about them and has a depth of information which helps him to know which ones really have talent and upside. Maybe that is why all but one of these acquisitions has been either neutral or positive. Apparently how good the acquisitions have been is irrelevant to you. You just see the number of players and jump to “bias!” Does the success and failures on that list you posted tell you anything about the value of Moore’s information or whether it is just bias? Do you care about that information at all? And if not, why in the world not?
Using H. Ramirez as a starter would be a mistake. Telling him that he’ll get a shot in spring training is not a mistake. We’ll see if they make the mistake.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 6:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The one negative one...Pena?
I do not think Pena was a mistake. I think it was a mistake to start him as long as he did. If we want cordier back, I am pretty sure he is available tomorrow.
by Trumanroyal on Dec 10, 2008 6:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Si
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 7:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
TPJ Had His
Day in the sun, and he actually helped the franchise through a transitional phase. Then he turned to shit. I really like the guy, but last year’s implosion at the plate and in the field convinced me he has no place on an MLB roster.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 10, 2008 9:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed on all points
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 9:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
it’s gotta be rough when your peak is a crappy Jack Wilson year, but for $400,000, I tip my hat. Pleasant journey, Jalapena.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 10:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Polarization, again
In the end, I don’t think it matters much. It’s merely a suggestion, albeit one without much, if any, proof. Moore has claimed that any organizational G.M. would have made as many moves he has made in the same situation (choosing many players from his former team). I just think it’s a minor, minor, minor blemish on his report card. Extremely minor. It does give RR’ers and other bloggers/message boarders room to poke fun at him a little bit, though.
I didn’t intend to hold a worldly debate on how ex-Atlanta players are destroying this organization. Nor did I intend to call out Moore as a bad G.M. for such moves. I just think he needs to look at the entire player pool, that’s all. The Braves were an excellent organization, but open your mind a little more. That’s all I’m arguing.
by Royals Nation on Dec 10, 2008 6:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"open your mind a little more"
A call for Dayton Moore, not NYRoyal.
by Royals Nation on Dec 10, 2008 7:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I just think it’s a minor, minor, minor blemish on his report card. Extremely minor.
Ok, I think we agree on the magnitude of the issue. But since the moves, on balance, are significantly skewed to the positive, I can’t agree that it is a blemish.
he Braves were an excellent organization, but open your mind a little more. That’s all I’m arguing.
I just think his mind is very open to every organization, and that’s why he’s acquired players from many different organizations.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 7:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Did you all miss the Dayton article yesterday?
He admits to the stereotype of taking a lot of players from ATL. He also says (and probably rightly so) that there’s nothing wrong with it, because those are the players they know the best.
by Top Ramen on Dec 10, 2008 10:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
link me
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 10:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Here it is:
"I can understand why people would speculate," Moore admitted. "Jeff is coming off a bad year, and they need pitching. We’ve, obviously, brought in a lot of Atlanta people and players from Atlanta.
"If anybody was in the same situation that I was in, they would do the same thing because it’s information that you have."
by Top Ramen on Dec 11, 2008 10:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
thanks
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 10:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He admitted that the Royals have brought in a lot of Atlanta people!!!!!!!!!
Was that fact in dispute…by anybody?
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 10:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He admits to having acquired a lot of Braves
That’s like admitting that you go to sleep and night and wake up in the morning. There’s no debate on that point.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 11:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know if Moore's perceived "bias" is...
as much a function of some irrational, put-the-blinders-on, focus on Braves’ players than it is that he obviously spent a ton of time evaluating many, if not most, of the players in the Braves farm system and feels comfortable in knowing what he’s getting.
I also think that he’s examined the Royals’ farm system extensively, and that has not been happy with the AAA or ML-ready bullpen arms in that system. So he’s going outside of it to pull in some guys from the Braves’ system who he thinks are more ready or better for his bullpen.
Are there any particular bullpen candidates within the Royals’ system that you think Moore is irrationally, and negligently, excluding from consideration for the same roles?
by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 10, 2008 6:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Are there any particular bullpen candidates within the Royals’ system that you think Moore is irrationally, and negligently, excluding from consideration for the same roles?
I have no idea. I really don’t. I’m saying that it might give us reason to believe he could have certain biases, in the future, with regard to distribution of playing time. The chances are rather low, but they’re there, I think.
by Royals Nation on Dec 10, 2008 7:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
When I saw that Cuervas thing
I just laughed. Man, that guy is being whored around.
It was also brought to my attention that the 40 man roster is at 39.
Best day of the Winter meetings… Rule 5 draft, w00! Here it comes.
Hope ESPN comes through on that.
by Royal from Queens on Dec 10, 2008 7:15 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Eaton, anyone?
Here is a story about the Phils wanting to dump Eaton for nothing… they’ll eat $8 Mil of the $9 Mil remaining on his contract, and want nothing in return.
Should we give him a shot?
by CollininCalifornia on Dec 10, 2008 7:37 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I dunno
he projects as barely above replacement level… as a reclamation project, maybe.
Don’t know much about him other than the suckiness, bad Rangers trades, etc. anyone else know if he has the stuff to be a bullpen reclamation?
Wouldn’t give any sig. talent for him.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 7:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
from the article
it sounds like they really don’t want anything.
by CollininCalifornia on Dec 10, 2008 7:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Adam Eaton is trash
Waste of time and money.
This is the same guy who stabbed himself in the stomach trying to open up a DVD package.
Yeah…
by Royal from Queens on Dec 10, 2008 7:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Gload for Eaton + $6M
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 8:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think I'd rather just keep Gload
Although you did spark a thought to the only player I’d trade for Eaton… Jose Guillen… surprise!
by Royal from Queens on Dec 10, 2008 8:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If the Royals could dump Gload and get back a reclamation project due $1M net, that would be a big net positive for the Royals
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 8:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Adam Eaton can hurt the team alot more than Gload can
Eaton as the ability to give up 8 earned runs in 2 innings.
All Gload can do is make an out and sometimes not even with runners on base.
by Royal from Queens on Dec 10, 2008 8:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Reclamation projects don't need to hurt at all
You try them out and if they don’t work out, you bury them in the ass end of the bullpen or just release them. If they’re cheap, the loss is minimal. That’s what reclamation projects are for.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 8:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
he could be the new horam
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 10:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Eaton scouting report
Has a moving fastball ranging from 92-97 MPH, a very big-breaking slow curve, a good change and slider
I don’t know, might make a pretty good replacement for Ramierez
Go Royals!
by BabyBlues on Dec 10, 2008 8:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Unfortunately, he's lost a lot of velocity
His FB was at 91.5 in 2005. In 2008 it was down to 89.5.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 8:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What year is that scouting report from?
He’s bad. He’s very hittable.
by Royal from Queens on Dec 10, 2008 8:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That 2008 scouting report does not match up with the pitch f/x data on his actual velocity. Not even close. By 2008, Eaton’s velocity was below average for a RHP.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 8:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
as far as I cant tell it is his curve that is the problem.
by BabyBlues on Dec 10, 2008 8:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A below average velocity fastball doesn’t help.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 8:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They're Symbiotic Problems.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 10, 2008 9:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
he blows no matter which way you slice it
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Dec 10, 2008 9:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
true to your namesake
loved hthe mixed metaphor
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 10:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Put him in the bullpen
We said the same thing about HoRam’s velocity and look how the pen revived his career.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 10, 2008 9:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If we could get rid of someone like Gload and make the money right, I'd take him as a reclamation project
But HoRam never relied on his velocity, so his 90 mph fastball wasn’t a problem. When Eaton lost his velocity, he was naked out there. But I’d give him a shot, if it meant getting rid of Gload and saving some cash.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 9:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This is off-topic
….but I love the Justin Huber tag. Viva La Huber! Also, where did the Glass tag come from? Or is he relevant because of his promised payroll contributions that have enabled us to be associated with F.A.’s like Furcal?
by Royals Nation on Dec 10, 2008 7:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
yeah, I just put Glass in there, because this is a significant week for him
He’d have to sign off on any potential high dollar FA.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 8:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Apparently it's official with HoRam:
Source
And then there’s this little nugget:
Meantime, Moore indicated the Royals are close to a deal in their quest for a right-handed setup man. But it’s not likely to come immediately.
‘I wouldn’t anticipate anything there until over the weekend or Monday, I would think,’ Moore said.
by minda33 on Dec 10, 2008 7:57 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yikes...Farnsworth gives me a sour feeling in my stomach
I hope it is Lyon.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 8:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
depends on money
Lyon looks pretty good on the projections, but (and I can’t believe I’m saying this) I’d rather get the prof for $500,000 than overpay a bullpen guy.
I know that’s vague and obvious, but you know what i mean.
In any case, farns + guillen + gibbons = I will cry for a week if the Royals don’t add MB to this merry bunch
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 10:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I really hope Moore isn't too desirous of a LH starter
There was a lot of talk about that in the MLB.com article that minda linked to above. But it was almost all from the writer and not from Moore’s quotes. Last year, the Royal’s craving for a lefty starter led to the overexposure of John Bale. I hope it doesn’t lead to a similar mistake in 2009. Having a lefty starter simply isn’t important.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 8:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
is there any empirical basis for an advantage of having a lefty in the rotation over a right of the same quality?
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 10:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
interpret that question in a way that makes me seem coherent, please
thanks
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 10:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nope
I saw one article at BP on this at some point (probably a couple years ago). Neutralize for pitcher talent, etc. and the evidence showed that mixing in a lefty doesn’t help. What helps is having the best possible pitchers in the rotation.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 11:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that's what I would have guessed
I’d bet a dollar Branch Rickey knew this and shafted trade partners many times using this knowledge. Can’t say for sure. You a historican of the game, what’s the best book about him? I’m increasinly fascinated by him.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 11:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't know
I’ve read a few books which discuss him briefly, but I haven’t read a good biography of him. My fetish is on the early history of baseball (deadball era and earlier).
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 12:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Just like having speed at the top of the lineup isn't terribly important
Kevin Youkilis proved that pretty well I think.
I'm about to change my username to DannyDuffyfan
by jackie ballgame on Dec 10, 2008 8:11 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yup
This is what I think is important for leadoff hitters
90% OBP
5% speed
5% stolen bases (if and only if the player can steal at a better than 70% clip)
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 8:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Somehow The Fact
That Rickey was the best leadoff hitter of all time seems lost on the collective mind of MLB. His speed and steals were masking his true value; OBA and SLG. His career .279/.401/.419 is far more impressive than 1,115 steals in 1,450 attempts. Both ain’t bad. The fact that he is an impenetrable headcase makes it that much better.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 10, 2008 9:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
kcscoliny says anytime you talk about Ricky Henderson you must talk about him in the 3rd person
It takes 46 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip 'em the bird.
by kcscoliny on Dec 10, 2008 10:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
devil_fingers’ bad
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 10:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Rickey On 3B
Less than 2 out; 3B coach gives him the standard spiel, “If this happens, do this, etc.”. Rickey , sublimely staring off into the stands, turns to the coach and says “Man, no one throw out Rickey.” Case closed.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 10, 2008 11:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and then there's the quote from Rickey about Winfield and Mattingly arguing about
who gets to drive Rickey in
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 11:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Rickey rules
LIke James said, split him in half and you’ve got two Hall of Famers.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 10:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm starting to understand
That Dayton is a throw-back, old school baseball guy. He likes his pipsqueaks in the leadoff spot (“fleas” Earl Weaver used to call them), and he lives by the rule that you must have at least one left hander in the rotation.
I’m surprised he fired to Buddy Bell, to be honest.
I'm about to change my username to DannyDuffyfan
by jackie ballgame on Dec 10, 2008 8:13 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
we rarely had
a left-hander in the rotation last season
by I need more Esteban on Dec 10, 2008 8:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
we had a LHP start 3 games last year
I think
Founder of the Johnny Giavotella fan club.
by doublestix on Dec 10, 2008 8:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder when we'll find out how much HoRam signed for
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 8:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
can't be much
I’m surprised he even got an ML deal.
Founder of the Johnny Giavotella fan club.
by doublestix on Dec 10, 2008 8:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I was certain someone would give him a ML deal
I think he’s a decent lefty reliever at this point in his career, and still pretty young. Many lefty relievers get ML deals.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 8:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That was supposed to be "many bad lefty relievers get ML deals"
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 8:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Darren Oliver is still in baseball -- and got offered arb this year!
’nuff said
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 10:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dayton will bring the team together with some home cooking!!!
Go Royals!
by BabyBlues on Dec 10, 2008 8:32 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
I am amused by how ridiculously huge
that can is.
(That’s what she said, etc. etc.)
by minda33 on Dec 10, 2008 8:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually
If it were “cans,” plural, it’s probably more likely to be “That’s what he said!”
Just saying…
by DarthYoshi on Dec 10, 2008 8:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
True.
Now go study, young man! (Points an accusing finger at DarthYoshi)
by minda33 on Dec 10, 2008 8:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, ma'am
For once, I got nothin’. I really should be cramming right now. Sigh.
by DarthYoshi on Dec 10, 2008 9:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that's what.....oh never mind
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
by buddyball on Dec 10, 2008 10:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
outstanding
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 10:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Glad I'm not the only one cramming
And losing half of my study time to Royals Review winter meetings threads. (Because if it weren’t for these winter meetings, I’d be sailing right along!)
I'm about to change my username to DannyDuffyfan
by jackie ballgame on Dec 10, 2008 9:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Nothing new here
just fun to see national people talking about the Royals.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;ylt=Aptt1X0lWJd8GQwySzOVmcRvLYF?slug=jp-furcalroyals121008&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
by I need more Esteban on Dec 10, 2008 9:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I don't know if this is the same article, but there is a good article on the Royals pursuing Furcal at Yahoo sports
You can find it here.
It says the Royals are trying to free up payroll room to sign Furcal. Trading Guillen is the key to that but interest in him has been “nearly nonexistent.” Further payroll could be cleared by trading Teahen, Buck and/or German.
The article says that KC believes it will take 4/44 to get Furcal. This implies that the Royals are willing to go that high. It also says that O-Cab is the backup plan and speculates that he would cost about 3/27.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 9:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
If O-Cab for anywhere near 3/27 is the fallback plan for SS, I'm going to be so incredibly pissed
The degree to which that would be fucking stupid is beyond measure or even description. Hopefully this is hype Moore is creating to make it look like the Royals don’t need Furcal. I’d rather have Furcal for 4/44 than O-Cab for 3/21.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 9:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I Could Live
With a whole lotta Callaspo at 2B and Aviles at SS before I’d want to see that contract executed.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 10, 2008 9:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We need a new backup plan.
How about a second baseman instead?
Go Royals!
by BabyBlues on Dec 10, 2008 9:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, but I don't see a good option
Hudson is good, but expensive, and would cost the Royals a second round draft pick. I think Furcal is the only good middle IF option for the Royals to acquire this year. If we have to stick with Callaspo, so be it. He at least can put up a good OBP.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 9:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I Hear He
Has a decent jab, a fair uppercut, and an unlimited tab at the local bars, too.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 10, 2008 9:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Comparing the two middle infields
SS Aviles
2B Callaspo
vs.
SS OCab
2B Aviles
The first is better offensively and the second is better defensively. Let’s say it’s a wash, production-wise. And the first one is millions cheaper and doesn’t hamper the Royals from signing good FA’s this year or any future year. The right choice is beyond obvious.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 9:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
At Least To
Us.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 10, 2008 9:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
When the Royals lose out on Furcal...
…I’m not going to be able to get to sleep any night until someone signs O-Cab. If it is the Royals, I’m jumping off a fucking bridge. I would also start the “Dayton Moore for Assistant GM” campaign.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 9:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Off a bridge?
Man that doesn’t sound good. Sounds dangerous.
Don’t do it!
by Royal from Queens on Dec 10, 2008 9:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
NYC Has Some
Classic bridges if that’s the way you wanna go. The Lewis & Clark viaduct just isn’t the same as the Brooklyn Bridge.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 10, 2008 9:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd have lots of good choices to pick from
At least that is some comfort.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 9:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
but they are all bridges to nowhere...
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
by buddyball on Dec 10, 2008 10:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
don't do Brooklyn
do you really want to die with the giant red Watchtower sign as the last thing you see?
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 11:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You're probably right
But somebody needs to christen the new “RFK Bridge”
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 9:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think OCab + Aviles would almost certainly be better than Aviles + Callaspo
but not worth 3/27. No way. Not even the monkeys like that one.
They could almost live with Furcal for 4/44… but they are only statisticians, not doctors, so they dont realize that Furcal doesn’t have a chance in hell of playing %85 percent of his games next year.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 11:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I haven't crunched the numbers
But don’t you think that Callaspo would be better offensively than OCab? They might have similar OPS’s, but Callaspo should have a significantly higher OBP. Perhaps the larger defensive difference tilts the balance to OCab, but paying millions for that difference is like giving it away.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 11:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, i agree that 3/27 is stupid for Cabrera
it all depends on his defense
(too many windows open… I’m going nuts keeping track)
Marcels has Cabrera at .314 wOBA next year, or -11/700.
Callaspo is at .315, or -10.3/700.
I haven’t seen any of the more advanced projections yet (well, there’s James, but, well, you know. They don’t like Callaspo anyway).
Not much data on Callaspo, of course. Cabrera being at least a decent defensive shortstop gives him the big projection edge over Callaspo’s questionable defense at second. Don’t think it’s $8.5M difference, personally, but I’m not the guy with the Masters in P.E., either.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 11:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Callaspo is going to do better than those projections
Callaspo has a statistical history which doesn’t lend itself to accurate projections. And O-Cab’s defense is highly questionable. Some metrics love it and some hate it. The whole picture doesn’t look good to me.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 12:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There's this irrational kid inside of me
who will be super excited if we land Furcal.
And I’m going to have to scold him and say “now don’t complain if we can’t sign Greinke”
I'm about to change my username to DannyDuffyfan
by jackie ballgame on Dec 10, 2008 9:28 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
yeah... at least he'll be good for a little while
the Royals would be foolish to go 4/44 though, especially in their situation
If they do it, the Braves jokes will never die. And frankly, they shouldn’t.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 11:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The way this is going, I'm starting to think
that Shortstops are actually the currency of baseball. We should be stockpiling shortstops and catchers in the minor league system. If I’m JJ Piccollo, I’m using six of my top fifteen picks on shortshops and catchers.
I'm about to change my username to DannyDuffyfan
by jackie ballgame on Dec 10, 2008 9:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
If trading Guillen is a necessary precondition to signing Furcal, we're screwed
And I don’t mean because Guillen can’t be traded. While it is difficult, I think that he and 3/4 of his contract could well be tradable. But it won’t happen until all of the better corner OFers are signed. And I doubt Furcal is going to stay on the market that long.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 9:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
+1
With Dunn and Burrell rumored around 12M a year, there’s no way any team is going to want to take on JoGui at 12M.
by Top Ramen on Dec 10, 2008 10:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I've fallen so far
3 months ago I would have been thrilled to get either of those guys for 12 per. Now I think it would be not so great.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 11:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You've Been Hoagied
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 10, 2008 11:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
or Tangoed
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 11:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There was a time when I would have given Dunn much more than that
Then I was bewitched by the temptress of defense.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 12:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Did you see the Indians/Mets/Mariners trade
Looks like Shapiro has lost it. It makes no sense.
Chavez/Gutierrez/Ichiro might be a historically great defensive outfield
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 12:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, I spoke to that a bit below
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 12:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I hope our pursuit of Furcal
Doesn’t mean we are no longer interested in gritty Craig Counsel
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 10, 2008 9:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Or, if we lose out on Furcal, that Counsel saves us from O-Cab
Please someone sign O-Cab soon. Please, please, please.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 9:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather have Counsel
playing a crappy second base for 1/$5M than O-cab at 3/27 or even Furcal 4/44. I mean, either of those guys is better, but those contracts would be silly for the Royals.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 11:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and I despise Craig Counsel
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 11:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He Just Wins
Because he’s made millions to be a sub-par MLB’er for a decade.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 10, 2008 11:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Only awesome hitters get to have screwy batting stances/swings
it’s the coolest thing about Gary Sheffield
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 11:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Whip It!
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 10, 2008 11:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Can you imagine being a Dad trying to convince you kid not to swing like that
while Sheff smacks line drives and home runs left and right (um, a few years ago)?
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 11:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, I think you might be safe from worrying about that now
the regression is steep
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
by buddyball on Dec 10, 2008 11:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i had a kid who used to try to do that in Little League...
he was trying to do that stupid bat wiggle thing pre-pitch. bad thing was he was good enough to do it, too.
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Dec 11, 2008 9:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I want Counsel mainly for his batting stance
I'm about to change my username to DannyDuffyfan
by jackie ballgame on Dec 10, 2008 11:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I can't insert the pic, but here's the link
I'm about to change my username to DannyDuffyfan
by jackie ballgame on Dec 10, 2008 11:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yaz On Steroids
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 10, 2008 11:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Mets, Indians and Mariners might be on the verge of a trade
…involving Putz, F. Gutierrez, Joe Smith, Valbuena, and perhaps others.
If so, the Teahen for Gutierrez dream dies.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 9:57 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Mets get a putz
Figures
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 10, 2008 10:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Word out on the street is
The Mets give up 6 players… jeeze!
Heilman, Endy Chavez, Joe Smith, and Mike Carp, are four of the names. What are the other two?
by Royal from Queens on Dec 10, 2008 10:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ambriorix Burgos is one
But he is beinng dealt to the Dominican authorities
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 10, 2008 10:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
who got Endy?
if it’s the Mariners, we’ll know they aren’t going to be shaftable for a long time
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 11:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Gotta give it to the Mets
they are playing a different game than the small market teams and their primary goal was to improve the pen and they certainly have done that.
It takes 46 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip 'em the bird.
by kcscoliny on Dec 10, 2008 11:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Edwin Jackson to Detroit
For Matt Joyce. I like this deal for the Tigers.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 10, 2008 10:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
great deal for the Rays, too
mediocre pitcher (upside, but they don’t need him) and the fill a hole with a cheap OF who projects as around average.
And that, my friends, is what the Royals figure out.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 11:09 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Rosenthal reports
Brian Fuentes will get a 3 year/$33 million deal.
Brian Fuentes?!?!?!?
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 10, 2008 10:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
with whom?
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
by buddyball on Dec 10, 2008 10:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A stupid team
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 10, 2008 10:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How Awesome does Sorias contract look right now even as just a closer.
Think what he would bring in this market as the youngest one in the group.
It takes 46 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip 'em the bird.
by kcscoliny on Dec 10, 2008 10:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+33
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 11:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe We Should
Have explored the possibilities……………………….or are we?
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 10, 2008 11:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and have him miss the parade?
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 11:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dutton's report
We’re pretty close to signing HoRam and Kyle Farnsworth
DM dismissed rumors we’re after Jack Wilson (thank god)
DM thinks we may lose a player or two in the Rule 5
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 10, 2008 10:43 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
the royals have always loved retreading their own players
and now dayton’s taking that to a new level
ho-ram round 2!
by royalsreview on Dec 10, 2008 11:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I hope the Royals don't lose a draft pick
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 11:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wilson would be a good stopgap
except the Royals don’t need a stopgap there.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 11:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I was starting to lean this way a bit anyway but it is now official your love of defense has officially crossed the line.
It takes 46 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip 'em the bird.
by kcscoliny on Dec 10, 2008 11:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought a team could only lose one player to the Rule V Draft
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
by buddyball on Dec 10, 2008 11:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Would we be interested in Saito if things don't work out with the Dodgers?
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blog/2008/12/dodgers-updates.html
I'm about to change my username to DannyDuffyfan
by jackie ballgame on Dec 10, 2008 10:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I don't get the fascination with Jack Wilson
on the part of the tigers and dodgers….he sucks. His OBP last year was .312 I believe. Slugged below .350.
I'm about to change my username to DannyDuffyfan
by jackie ballgame on Dec 10, 2008 10:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Wilson's career season-by-season lines defy explanation
He sucks for a couple of years, then has one pretty darned good year, then goes right back to being total dead weight in the lineup…then has another good year in a couple of years. His OPS+ is either in the 105 neighborhood, or it is in the mid-70’s.
by DarthYoshi on Dec 10, 2008 10:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
he's using steroids!!
I want the man dead!
the evidence is clear
by royalsreview on Dec 10, 2008 11:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I Want All
Men other than myself dead. Sorry, guys, just business.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 10, 2008 11:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
In One Sense
Anyway.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 12:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Similar to the fascination with Adam Everett
very good fielder, Ran the numbers on him last week. He’s not what he used to be, but Wilson projects as a 1.8 WAR player. Just below average, but role playres like that really help a team, and he certainly isn’t being paid what that would cost on the FA market.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 11:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Just ran new numbers on Saucy Jack
defense numbers all over the place. I averaged some defensive numbers on him to get a more “objective” look. An average player would be 2 WAR a year with normal health.
2005: 3.05
2006: 0.34
2007: 3.28
2008: 1.76 (only played 80 games)
Terrible 2006, of course, and that’s part of his performance record, but he looks like a better player than you’d think just by looking at his hitting stats.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 11:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Tigers acquire Edwin Jackson
for Matt Joyce hopefully this means Billy is staying put.
It takes 46 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip 'em the bird.
by kcscoliny on Dec 10, 2008 11:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Joyce is the OF Aviles
Marcels doesn’t have much data, and I don’t trust James, but the data says
+13 hitter, +7 defender = 20. I’m not ready to go that far. Let’s cut it in half. for +10 or one win. -0.75 for position = +.25 wins above average. + 2.5 AL replacment level = 2.75 WAR player, around 2.5 WAR player with less playing time.
The notion of trying to get something out of Jackson (who look like a #4 starter to me, but correct me if I’m wrong), but Detroit just sent an above average player making $400,000 with 4-6 years of club control left in exchange for him. That’s nuts.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 11:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe they expect to get better numbers out of Jackson in Detroits large stadium
he is more of a flyball pitcher so maybe his numbers improve in that environment. Not a wise move but maybe thats their thought process plus maybe they think Joyce will have a Sophmore slump.
It takes 46 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip 'em the bird.
by kcscoliny on Dec 10, 2008 11:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
they seem to just really be trying to go for it
I guess they do have a crowded OF, but as much as I enjoy Marcus Thames “Adam Dunn without the walks but slightly more power” act and classic Fu Manchi, Joyce is cheap and young.
They really seem to be just dumping all the young talent and going for it. The better get to the playoffs next year, because they’re f-ed otherwise.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 11:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Its fine with me
everyone in the division looks totally incompetent with the exception of the Royals-Twins
It takes 46 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip 'em the bird.
by kcscoliny on Dec 10, 2008 11:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't worry
Bill Smith has only had one year with the Twins. Looks like it will only take him 1-2 more to totally screw that org. up.
On the other hand, Dayton, we’re grading on the curve now… don’t follow suit.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 11:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow that putz deal is final..
The Mets have acquired a setup man for new closer Francisco Rodriguez — and that setup man is another closer from the American League West.
J.J. Putz is headed to New York in a three-team trade with the Mariners and Indians, according to major-league sources.
Under terms of the deal, the Mets get Putz, outfielder Jeremy Reed and reliever Sean Green from Seattle. The Mariners receive reliever Aaron Heilman, outfielder Endy Chavez and first baseman Mike Carp from the Mets. They also get Franklin Gutierrez from the Indians and minor leaguers. The Indians get reliever Joe Smith from the Mets and infielder Luis Valbuena from Seattle.
Wow the mets gave up dog shit for putz
Werd.
by focs on Dec 10, 2008 11:25 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
What were the Indians thinking?
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
by buddyball on Dec 10, 2008 11:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
doesn't make a whole lot of sense
unless they are planning on moving Peralt over to 3b.
It takes 46 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip 'em the bird.
by kcscoliny on Dec 10, 2008 11:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
wow
The Mariners got real fucking smart real fucking quick. They got two of the best fielding outfielders in one trade. I don’t even know who the other guys are — Chavez can’t hit for shit, of course, but some people “in the know” say he’s one of the best fielders of his generation — a hell of a 4th OF. And F-Gut looks like Endy except with offensive upside.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 11:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I like this deal for the Mariners and Mets both I don’t really get what the Indians are getting out of the deal
It takes 46 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip 'em the bird.
by kcscoliny on Dec 10, 2008 11:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
me neither
I used to thikn Shapiro was a brain, but after this + the Wood deal, I have no clue what they’re doingl. I guess I need to read about the guys they got.
BTW, CHONE has Endy at +20 in the corner, +17 in CF. I’m not sure about hte CF number, but even +20 in the corner, -15 hitter, -7.5 corner guy = -2.5 +20 NL replacement = 17.5 or just below average player as a throw in.
Now make that dude a slightly better defender and a -7 hitter. And 25 years old.
That FGut.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 11:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Love to see the Indians getting stupid
So much for them being on the cutting edge of sabermetrics.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 12:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, I don't get it at all
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 12:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think their sabermetric reputation is overrated
I think there are strong voices on both the old school/traditional/scouting side and the sabermetric side in that front office. And the old schoolers often win. They are certainly on top so far this offseason.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 12:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
or maybe just bad sabermetrics
who knows, maybe my FRAA/Woolner jokes from the while back had something to them.
Actually, did the Indians only give up FGut? I don’t know anything about the guys they got back.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 12:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure, I don't know all the details on the trade yet
I think the reporting on the trade is still in the “we’re still figuring out who all is involved” stage.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 12:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
maybe the Royals could have got FGut for Teahen
I’m guessing those poor people at lets go tribe are apoplectic
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 12:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Jose for FGut (since they so love Jose in the NW) and use the Guillen money to sign Furcal.
Pretty good defensive team then—-except for 1B. Actually, real f**king good!
by Steve Hovley on Dec 11, 2008 7:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
they also lost one of the best defensive 2B's in the minors
who has offensive upside.
basically another placido polanco.
yea, that’s a good idea. to give up that guy.
Founder of the Johnny Giavotella fan club.
by doublestix on Dec 11, 2008 12:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the mariners or the mets? or the indians?
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 12:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Luis Valbuena
He’s one of the most underrated prospects in baseball. And the Indians just got him.
Founder of the Johnny Giavotella fan club.
by doublestix on Dec 11, 2008 12:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ah, no wonder they made the trade
I guess they really didn’t have a place for FGut with Sizsemore there (although they’re still better off playing him in RF). I guess they think Choo will be around… who’s in left? LaPorta?
The Mariners got two awesome OF defenders and a bunch of other guys.. Mike Carp any good?
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 12:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Carp = Type of Fish + Fish = Mariner #441 = Nope
Just a new sabermetric
Werd.
by focs on Dec 11, 2008 12:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
LaPorta is Butler-esque in the outfield
Carp isn’t much. He might give you a nice OBP but there’s not that much power in the bat. Not a good defender either. Maybe a Lyle Overbay type without the glove.
Founder of the Johnny Giavotella fan club.
by doublestix on Dec 11, 2008 1:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We Faced The
Mighty Valbuena a couple of times last year, and we loved his name.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 12:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Valbuena is underrated?
He must have great tools then, because his performance history is none too impressive.
Career at AA .262/.335/.414 (684 AB’s)
Career at AAA .296/.380/.366 (216 AB’s)
He’s young and I’m sure he’s got some good upside. But even if he’s got spectacular 2B defense, is there any reason to believe he’ll have a sufficient major league bat? And Joe Smith’s major league performance has been anything but impressive (advanced pitching metrics have him below average for a reliever). The Indians gave up a good CFer for very little in return. They got hosed.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 1:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I like how a team from the west and a team from the east
needed a team in the center to get things done. It’s like a geographic trade!
Kansas City Royals: your 2006 and 2007 NL Central champions!
by mazoboom on Dec 10, 2008 11:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
GMDM - get on the horn now
Guillen for Guiterrez
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
by buddyball on Dec 10, 2008 11:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The Mariners look competent
might as well use this again
by royalsreview on Dec 10, 2008 11:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
so much for the HoRam-for-Branyan dream
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 11:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
BoSox Closing in on Teix deal
It takes 46 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip 'em the bird.
by kcscoliny on Dec 11, 2008 12:04 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Rickrolls not available in my country
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 12:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
better than Rickrolls lol
the worst song ever
It takes 46 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip 'em the bird.
by kcscoliny on Dec 11, 2008 12:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
srsly, couldn't access it
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 12:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder what the Royals would be like
if they too could offer 8 year/160 million dollar contracts.
Where are the Nationals getting that kind of money? Government subsidy?
Kansas City Royals: your 2006 and 2007 NL Central champions!
by mazoboom on Dec 11, 2008 12:12 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Maybe It's A
DC thing. The Skins have been an oddly valuable franchise over the years.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3018143
“Thanks to a new $1 billion stadium set to open in 2009, the Cowboys’ value increased by 28 percent — by far the largest jump among NFL teams this year — to $1.5 billion. They climbed from third to first in the rankings, leapfrogging the Redskins ($1.467 billion) and the New England Patriots ($1.199 billion).”
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 12:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It is a decent sized market
If they actually put a winner on the field, that team could actually rake in some serious money.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 12:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And Jim Bowden is just he man to do it!
I think new sports owners should get a “consumer’s report” before choosing an exec.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 12:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, But They
Were the most valuable franchise in sports for a while. No way could I reconcile this to market size and on field success.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 12:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Skins fans are the most loyal in sports
Snyder raises ticket prices and they just keep going
It takes 46 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip 'em the bird.
by kcscoliny on Dec 11, 2008 12:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I just saw on the Sportscenter bottomline
O’s offer Teix somewhere around 7 / 150
by RoyalsFanStuckInCardsLand on Dec 11, 2008 1:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
WTF?
The Royals are interested in Jarrod Saltalamacchia, but talks didn’t go anywhere.
Werd.
by focs on Dec 11, 2008 12:29 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Olivo Insurance
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 12:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
KC doesnt have much to offer the Rangers
I doubt they would pull the trigger on a Bannister-Salt deal.
It takes 46 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip 'em the bird.
by kcscoliny on Dec 11, 2008 12:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
actually
i would try it. Banny + Pimentel
Werd.
by focs on Dec 11, 2008 12:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i'm sure you would do it but i doubt the rangers would
It takes 46 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip 'em the bird.
by kcscoliny on Dec 11, 2008 12:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A brief and not too meaningful Royals-Rangers rumor
From T.R. Sullivan at MLB.com, reporting on Rangers rumors:
The Royals are also interested in Saltalamacchia but those talks have not gone anywhere.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 1:07 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Rany talks about the Royals and the winter meetings
Here.
Basically he says that the Greinke-for-Francoeur rumor was either a stupid rumor or a joke and that Moore sought out multiple reporters to tell them it was bullshit. He doesn’t want people to think he’s that kind of idiot. He isn’t. He says Farnsworth is an ok signing if he’s cheap. Same for Lyon. Says Farnsworth has higher upside, but Lyon is the safer bet. Says Springer is too old to be a good choice. Like Juan Cruz most of all.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 1:22 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Im interested in your opinion NY
Do you think the Royals can contend in 09 if we sign Furcal?
if not
What about if Butler and Gordon improve like the should and could?
Werd.
by focs on Dec 11, 2008 1:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok
My opinion of the 2009 Royals as currently constituted is about 81 wins (80-81, but let’s say 81 for the sake of argument). That includes expected improvements from guys like Butler and Gordon. Not massive breakout seasons, but the kind of improvements that projection systems have for them (and will likely have for them when the best projection systems come out). I think acquiring Furcal adds about two net wins (basically replacing Callaspo with Furcal). So that takes the Royals to 83 wins in my estimation. In order to get to the playoffs, I think the Royals would have to get to at least 87 wins. So I wouldn’t say 83 wins is “in contention.” With that team, the Royals would contend only if they have a few significant breakouts from regulars and no one significant really craters, as well as no major, long-term injuries to any key players.
Short answer: no.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 1:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
re: springer
I’ve seen that said multiple times…but who cares if he is 40? He’s still good, he doesn’t cost a pick, and he could EASILY be flipped at the deadline or let go for a draft pick (so long he does not retire). I think he’d be a great pickup on a 1 year deal.
Founder of the Johnny Giavotella fan club.
by doublestix on Dec 11, 2008 2:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The problem with him being 40
Players who are 40 years old are driving towards a cliff at a high rate of speed. You never know quite how far away the cliff is, but you know it’s there and you could go over that cliff at any second. As Rany pointed out, a couple years ago, his track record wasn’t very good. Then he had two good seasons at 38 and 39. What are the odds that he continues to beat the odds at age 40? It’s possible. But it is also very possible that he could go over that cliff. And then, of course, for pitchers that age you have significant injury risk.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 3:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ESPN’s Jerry Crasnick talked to Rafael Furcal’s agent Paul Kinzer, who expects his client to make a decision by the middle or end of next week. You know the suitors – the Dodgers, A’s, Royals, and Blue Jays. Yahoo’s Jeff Passan wrote yesterday that the Royals believe it will take a four-year, $44MM deal to sign Furcal
Werd.
by focs on Dec 11, 2008 3:03 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
4/44
the lesser Royale
Kansas City Royals: your 2006 and 2007 NL Central champions!
by mazoboom on Dec 11, 2008 3:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A Royale, hold the lettuce, pickle and special sauce
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 3:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
steve phillips says Farnsworth for 2yr/9m
ensue “DM IS AN IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!” posts now
he was hilariously unlucky last year with HR’s. i think those will come down just a tad at kaufman.
Founder of the Johnny Giavotella fan club.
by doublestix on Dec 11, 2008 3:35 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
2/9? Are you kidding me?
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 3:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
no
Founder of the Johnny Giavotella fan club.
by doublestix on Dec 11, 2008 3:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Reportedly 2 years, $9.25M
I’ll say it. That is fucking stupid. I mean that is absolutely fucking idiotic. Even if you like his tools and think he’s better than his recent stats (which is reasonable), he’s very unlikely to be THAT good. And, more importantly, his value on the open market was not 2/9. Nobody was going to give him that much money. This is a fucking Christmas present to a mildly talented asshole. What an unbelievably, genuinely shockingly stupid signing.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 3:39 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
+1
lets all hope steve phillips reported this, saw it was 2 years 4.5 million, and figured it was 4.5 mil a year and then tried to do some math and got 9.25. Hope its 4.12 over 2
Accidentally not thedude925 anymore. I do hate this new name.
by wildthang on Dec 11, 2008 3:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I hope so
But even THAT isn’t a good deal. $4M guaranteed over two years is too much for Farnsworth. One year at $2M is a stretch and likely more than his sub-mediocre pitching is worth.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 3:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah i agree with that too
its blind hope at this point.
So we have 3 million tied up in Yabuta, 4.12 now in Farns, 4 in Mahay, whatever Gobble gets cause you know the way this offseason is going he is coming back with a financial vengeance, whatever we gave to HoRam.
Soooooo we are throwing a lot behind Tejeda then to hold on to the “moore has a knack for building bullpens” line right?
Accidentally not thedude925 anymore. I do hate this new name.
by wildthang on Dec 11, 2008 3:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that last line
is half the reason I’m not throwing a fit.
i thought the Mahay deal was dumb last year but it wasn’t. when it comes to pitching, i give the man in charge the benefit of the doubt every time.
Founder of the Johnny Giavotella fan club.
by doublestix on Dec 11, 2008 3:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll wake up any minute now in a cold sweat and be laughing about it later today when I tell my wife about hte nightmare
it’s an absolute lie
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 8:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It seems weird
At the bottom of this thread, I have a post where I share some speculation that this report might not be true. I’m not saying Phillips screwed up, but he may have. It would be odd for him to miss the number so badly in a report. But this signing for that number would also be very odd. Giving Farnsworth more than he gave Mahay? Really?
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 8:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
if it had started at 2/$4M, I would have been semi-furious
I must be nearing “acceptance” already, because I would be quite relieved for that terrible deal.
Where have you gone, Leo Nunez?
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 8:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Same here. Two years would have been stupid, even for $1.5M per year
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 8:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"Nobody was going to give him that much money"
Proof?
Founder of the Johnny Giavotella fan club.
by doublestix on Dec 11, 2008 3:39 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Logic
But let’s say I’m wrong. Who knows, maybe I am. If someone was moronic enough to throw that much money at him, a smart front office would say, “wow, there’s no way I match that offer. Good luck in your future endeavors, Farnsy.” Instead, we pony up an amount of money that he isn’t even close to being worth. There is a range of reasonable possible performance Farnsworth could have over the next two years. At the top end of this range is performance which isn’t even worth $3.5M.
This contract is an absolute fucking joke. The Royals are trying to scrape together enough money to get an impact player and at the same time they throw away $4.6M per year on this below average reliever. Somebody spin that in a positive direction for me.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 3:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So ya think they just pulled a number out of their hat for the $$ amount?
You seem to be getting a bit to riled up over this. Time for bed? I think I would legitimately hurt myself if I cared this much over what will likely be a minor-ish move.
“Fucking Retarded” is Dye for N. Perez in my world. “Fucking Retarded” is Zack for Francouer. “Fucking Retarded,” is not however, signing a reliever for a bit more than I would have liked.
Founder of the Johnny Giavotella fan club.
by doublestix on Dec 11, 2008 3:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think its more the general trend of this offseason
I’m becoming less and less sure of where this team is headed at the MLB level.
I mean we’re killing it at the minor league level but I’m becoming less and less sure. Obviously its not going to cost us a huge amount but it goes in the bin with Crisp Guillen Jacobs etc as a “im not really sure where we are going with this”.
Accidentally not thedude925 anymore. I do hate this new name.
by wildthang on Dec 11, 2008 3:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No, I think Moore overvalued a crap pitcher and offered him too much money
Moore and his people fell in love with Farnsworth and his tools. So they showed interest in him. But he and his agent showed hesitancy and convinced Moore that other teams were going to be interested in him and would offer him big money. The convinced Moore that the only way to get him was to get in with a big number early on and pre-empt the competition. This is just like how Moore stupidly overbid the very limited competition for Guillen last year. And yes, that is really stupid.
You seem to be getting a bit to riled up over this. Time for bed? I think I would legitimately hurt myself if I cared this much over what will likely be a minor-ish move.
Time for bed? That’s cute. You know what it’s time for? It’s time for this organization to stop making stupid moves and overspending on crap. When the Royals are short on money and trying to sign an impact player and don’t have the money for it, spending too much money on a crap pitcher (by millions) actually matters. Get it, stix?
"Fucking Retarded" is Dye for N. Perez in my world. "Fucking Retarded" is Zack for Francouer. "Fucking Retarded," is not however, signing a reliever for a bit more than I would have liked.
First of all, “fucking retarded” is a phrase I didn’t use and don’t use. So I’m not sure what your mini-rant is about. This is fucking stupid. This is completely fucking stupid. No, it’s impact is not on the scale of the Dye trade or on the non-existent Greinke-Francoeur trade. But that doesn’t mean it can’t be completely and totally idiotic. In fact, it is. If you don’t care that the Royals are overspending their scarce resources on shit, that’s fine. But don’t whine about the fact that some fans actually care about that kind of thing.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 3:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
OK then
:)
Guess you are advocating the firing of Dayton Moore? I mean, if were making so many stupid moves, that would be the next step right? And I’m guessing you’ll say NO and bring up the minor leagues, but that’s hardly the GM’s job to put that together. Sir JJ does that. Want JJ as the GM? Well, to be fair, he is a legit GM candidate.
Founder of the Johnny Giavotella fan club.
by doublestix on Dec 11, 2008 4:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Guess you are advocating the firing of Dayton Moore?
No, not yet. But I’m having an increasingly difficult time describing him as a good GM.
I mean, if were making so many stupid moves, that would be the next step right?
We’ll see what else he does this offseason. If he signs O. Cabrera, that could be a tipping point for me.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 4:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
if we sign cabrera
i will flip my shit.
Accidentally not thedude925 anymore. I do hate this new name.
by wildthang on Dec 11, 2008 4:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
well yea
that would be pretty upsetting.
Founder of the Johnny Giavotella fan club.
by doublestix on Dec 11, 2008 4:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
BTW
Are you under the impression that a GM isn’t involved in who stays and goes in the minor league system? Do you think Moore was not involved in the Powell/Gathright trade, the Dessens/Prez/Pimentel/Johnson trade, the DLR/Ramirez trade, the Buckner/Callaspo trade? Do you think Moore was not involved in the minor league contract signings of H. Ramirez and Tejeda? So yeah, of course the GM is both ultimately responsible for the minor league system’s composition, and is involved in its improvement/decline.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 4:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
no
I was saying that the drafts the past couple years have been widely regarded as great drafts, and that the GM doesn’t really get credit for that. JJ, (Ladnier, now fired), the other draft people, scouts, crosscheckers do.
i should have clarified. obviously he is involed in those signings, but hardly in trades like that really improve the farm system. it’s not like any of the above mentioned were/are particularly good prospects outside of buckner and callaspo.
Founder of the Johnny Giavotella fan club.
by doublestix on Dec 11, 2008 4:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i should have clarified. obviously he is involed in those signings, but hardly in trades like that really improve the farm system.
Improving organizational depth is part of rebuilding a minor league system.
I was saying that the drafts the past couple years have been widely regarded as great drafts, and that the GM doesn’t really get credit for that. JJ, (Ladnier, now fired), the other draft people, scouts, crosscheckers do.
I won’t debate the degree to which Moore or any GM is involved in the draft (I’m sure they have input, in the very least, particularly on the first round pick) because it is irrelevant. The guy in charge of the draft and everyone who works on the draft is there because Dayton Moore wanted them to be there. For each of those people, Moore either hired him, or allowed him to stay in his job. If they are doing a good job, then Moore did well in hiring/keeping that person. If they are doing a bad job, then Moore did poorly in hiring/keeping that person.
It’s just like with the team. Moore never strikes out and never hits a home run. He puts the players on the roster who do those things. They succeed or fail. But because Moore is responsible for them being there, he is ultimately accountable for that success or failure.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 4:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
well i kind of agree
but some parts not.
it’s 3:25 though so it’s bed time. yes, i went there again.
Founder of the Johnny Giavotella fan club.
by doublestix on Dec 11, 2008 4:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
remember when you and I were mildy arguing over whether $1M or $15M would be acceptable?
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 8:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This really is bizarre
He gets more than Mahay and Affeldt? Could this really be true?
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 8:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
make that "1.5M"
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 8:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good News Everyone!
Accidentally not thedude925 anymore. I do hate this new name.
by wildthang on Dec 11, 2008 3:50 AM EST reply actions 4 recs
Even Hedonism-Bot is upset
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 8:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
“Signing Farnsworth is right here” (Points on map) “If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominos will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate!”
by Top Ramen on Dec 11, 2008 10:49 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Moore's stock is falling at a Dow Jones-like rate
His reputation took a hit when Guillen’s contract proved to be really shitty. It took another hit when he tried to solve the 1B problem by acquiring Jacobs. It took a small hit when he made the uninspired move of adding an ok CFer. If this contract info on Farnsworth is true, Moore’s stock has dropped even farther. This really is pretty ugly.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 4:03 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
fortunately baseball is not played on paper
so despite the bitching that will ensue tomorrow, there’s a chance he’s some how legitimately good next year. which would be the funniest thing ever (just about).
there’s also a chance it’s a false report. it is steve phillips after all.
Founder of the Johnny Giavotella fan club.
by doublestix on Dec 11, 2008 4:24 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Wow, what an offseason
Crisp 5.75M
Farnsworth 4.65M
Jacobs 3.5M
TOTAL $13.9M
Think that would have been enough to sign Furcal? Of course it would. So which of the following two teams would you prefer the Royals to have
Crisp
Farnsworth
Jacobs
or
Furcal
Ramirez
Nunez
The Royals would have been better off not doing either trade, nor signing Farnsworth and just devoting that money to Furcal. Jesus this is ugly.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 4:33 AM EST reply actions 4 recs
i couldn't agree more -- i think we're finally on the same page
http://www.royalsreview.com/2008/12/8/685736/winter-meetings-day-one-op#10568598
This space intentionally left blank.
by marbotty on Dec 11, 2008 5:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
so much for my "what I would have done a bit differently" post
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 8:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If this is true, spending $13.9M on those three guys (plus giving up two good relievers) is just shockingly horrible and stupid
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 8:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wish I hadn't expended all my fury on a Crisp deal that didnt' really bother me much in the first place
I know this is old hat from me, but here’s the thing.
I don’t think the Royals needed a slow lefty, bat, but assuming they did:
1) Sign Branyan or Hinske for half of what Jacobs would get in arb (around$1.5/1). The are also OK at first.
2) Instead of trading Ramram for Crisp, pick up Langerhans off of waivers. No, he’s not as good as Crisp, but Langerhans + Ramram are, and for less that $1M.
So you’ve still got a great bullpen, a good rth OF/stopgap CF. You have your left-handed platoon guy, and all for less than $5M, I bet. You have money left to go after Furcal or (yes!) Bradley, maybe even without dumping JoGui. And if not, then at least in a better position to absorb one dumb move like signing O-Cab, rathern than compounding them.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 8:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good moves
Or just do nothing except for sign Furcal. You save money and improve the team more than Moore has with these moves.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 8:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why Does Farnsworth
Remind me of every reliever we had before the last couple of years? He has one nasty pitch, that sometimes makes you (or at least Bob Davis) go “ooooh” (Affeldt, Burgos, Macdougal) He throws hard. (a couple of those guys and Sisco, Braun, Bukvich) He walks too many. (Seemingly every reliever in the first half of this decade) He has a 10 cent head. (I would just be repeating myself)
I see myself watching him give up leads with Soria warming up, highlighted by his head whipping around to see a ball splash into the fountains.
Wait! In his career year he spent half of it with the fabled Braves?? We must have underpaid.
by KHAZAD on Dec 11, 2008 5:24 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Something doesn't make sense
From today’s KC Star:
Moore said the Royals would need to clear payroll to accommodate a high-priced free agent. The club’s current payroll projects to roughly $70 million, which he cites as a budgeted maximum.
"You guys do the math," he told reporters. "You know where our payroll is. You know where it’s expected to be. We would have to do something through trades to free up money and talk about backloading (a contract). Our number for this year is what it is."
This article is correct that the Royals projected payroll is currently around $70M. Moore has said this is the top of his payroll budget and that he would have to get Glass’s approval to go higher than that. And yet Steve Phillips claims the Royals have signed Farnsworth to a 2/9.25 deal? If the Royals are at the payroll ceiling and he’s trying to figure out how to get Furcal (including going to Glass by multiple sources), would he really spend $4M+ on a middle reliever? I guess it is possible, but this just doesn’t seem plausible. Is this just bad journalism from Steve Phillips?
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 7:14 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
yeah, that absolutely has to be it
this doesn’t even make sense. No way. It’s Steve Freaking Phillips.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 8:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Moore choosing to sign guys who I wouldn't sign doesn't surprise me
And of course, his choices may be right and mine may be wrong. But if he actually signed Farnsworth for this amount, I’m genuinely shocked. Poorly evaluating talent is one thing, but misreading the market this badly is really embarrassing incompetence. Does he or anyone think that other teams were lining up to offer Farnsworth even 2/6? In this market, where good players are likely to get much less money than usually expected? This is truly mind boggling.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 8:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe ol' Phlip got the numbers right, but the name wrong
Maybe this is actually the deal we’re working out with Nelson Cruz. This is closer to Cruz’s market value than Farnsworth’s.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 8:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
if this is what we are paying him
must be what it took to get him to play here. While I hope soon that is no longer an issue, I am certain it still is. I am enjoying this push, even if it has resulted in some questionable contracts.
by wetleg on Dec 11, 2008 8:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
maybe
but I’m starting to think the “players don’t want to play in KC unless they get more money” may have saved the Royals from some bad contracts.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 8:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But the problem is that Dayton Moore is squandering David Glass's willingness to spend
Kudos to Glass for being willing to increase spending. It is unfortunate that Dayton Moore is pissing away that money on ill-advised trades and FA signings. If he had passed on these trades and Farnsworth (if this report is correct), he could have had Furcal easy. Or perhaps Bradley or Dunn. Instead, he traded away talent so he could pay more money to other players. And then flushed $9.25M down the toilet on Farnsworth. So far this offseason looks like good Wal-Mart money which could have helped the team being truly wasted.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 8:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and that's one of the main reasons Moore can't screw up much more
I do think there are better GM candidates out there, but if Moore fucks up and gets fired, the Glass family isn’t going to let the next guy spend like this, no matter who he is
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 9:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think that is true
I think Glass understands you have spend to win. But you have to spend wisely. If he determines Moore isn’t spending wisely, then he’ll eventually replace him with someone else to spend his money wisely. Glass knows that sitting on the money and winning 68-73 games a year won’t make him a nice profit.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 9:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But we're not going to pay a 4th outfielder $3M!
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 8:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the sad part
If Farns really did get 2/$9M or whatever, Joe Posnanski is going to put on 15 stress pounds in 1 day trying to figure out the “maybe this could be a good idea” in his column ripping this signing.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 9:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Day Four open thread is up
Let’s take our Farnsworth bewilderment/angst there.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 9:01 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
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