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Winter Meetings Day Three Overflow Thread

Apparently the re-acquisition of Jairo Cuevas has given rise to so much discussion that we need an overflow thread for day three of the WM before 6:00 EST.  Maybe Cuevas will be the new Robinson Tejeda.  Yes!

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Good lord

An overflow thread is deemed necessary AND ABSOLUTELY NOTHING HAS EVEN HAPPENED YET. I can’t imagine how many threads will be needed if and when Moore actually pulls the trigger on a signing or trade.

God, I love this website. Is it even possible there are a bigger group of Royals’ dorks somewhere out there on the Interwebs?

by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 10, 2008 5:40 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Indians looking to spend big money on an oft-injured closer

Kerry Wood has apparently accepted a 2 year, $20M offer. He’s heading to Cleveland for a physical. Are the Indians checking to make sure he’s really injured? What else would they expect to find in a Kerry Wood physical?

For all the talk about how sabermetric and statistically advanced the Indians front office is, they are still following the market’s biggest inefficiency: overpaying for a pitcher with a closer tag. I think they could have done better by signing two good $5M free agents, or anything more creative than throwing $20M at Kerry Wood.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 5:47 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Considering their bullpen problems last year

I don’t think its that bad a deal. Two years is a pretty safe way to handle an oft-injured guy. They don’t have a ton of holes on their roster that I can see, so I don’t know where else they would spend the money – maybe another SP? They can always use guys like Shoppach, Gutierrez and/or Francisco as trade bait to land a starting pitcher.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 10, 2008 5:59 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Peralta should move to 3B

Asdrubal should move to SS. And they should sign Grudz for grit.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 10, 2008 6:03 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Lies like that will get you suspended from this site

No more lies!!!!!

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 6:05 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Disturbing

Simply disturbing

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 10, 2008 6:06 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

They did have a bad bullpen

And I don’t think the way to build a good bullpen is to spend $10M on one player. I think $5M on two good relievers who don’t have the closer tag makes more sense. Otherwise you’re spending some millions merely because they guy has a certain word on his resume.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 6:04 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ordinarily I'd agree with you

But I think the market for relievers sucks this winter. Juan Cruz is about the only non-PROVEN CLOSER guy I like, and he costs a draft pick, unlike Wood.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 10, 2008 6:05 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Fair point

I also think I’d prefer 3 $3.3M guys to one $10M guy (especially when you can’t count on that guy to pitch for a full season).

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 6:06 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah, but you gotta think...

that it would be hard to have three Yabutian mistakes in a row. Especially in one offseason.

And chances are, at least one of the three would not wear a shiny, electric-blue, superhero costume underneath his jersey every time he pitches. Even when it’s 95 degrees outside.

by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 10, 2008 6:12 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nomo was essentially league minimum

So that’s not “three Yabutian mistakes”

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 6:15 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And Yabuta’s salary was $2.5M, so not quite the $3.3M times three that I suggested for the Indians.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 6:17 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well lucky for us...

Yabuta is the gift that keeps on giving as he is still owed 3.5 million including buyout.

by djk royal on Dec 10, 2008 6:27 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The good news is that he might be decent in 2009

I don’t think his poor 2008 means that he has no chance of being decent in 2009.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 6:28 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Japaneese pitcher have to ajust to American baseballs.

They are heaver and don’t have as high of seams.

Go Royals!

by BabyBlues on Dec 10, 2008 7:55 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So That Explains

The Sheik’s flat, frisbee breaking balls.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 10, 2008 8:43 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And I never saw Tomko OR Nomo...

wearing a shiny blue SuperYabuta costume under their jerseys. So there.

by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 10, 2008 6:17 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Or three good relievers

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 6:13 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

True, but if he didn't have the closer tag, he'd be significantly cheaper

Shelling out money for a label is taking part in market inefficiencies. I’m glad the Indians aren’t above that.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 6:07 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Could be

That may be their reason for this kind of move, but I don’t think it is a good reason.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 7:03 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

it's still weird

Betancourt just had a bad year last year. I’m not sure Wood’s all that much better than him. ERA and FIP for Wood are projected to be a lot better, but Betancourt’s tRA*s from the past couple years are superior. Just seems like an even bigger overpayment relative to likely quality than KRod.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 7:05 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1

It takes 46 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip 'em the bird.

by kcscoliny on Dec 10, 2008 6:20 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yeah, that seems crazy on the face of it

I’ll have to read around, look at more projections, etc. But even stretching his Marcels FIP such that his 7.5 RAR and giving a 2pLI, he’s still just a 1.5 WAR player.

Then again, other people ata BtBS saw the F-Rod deal much differently than me, so who knows. His tRA* the last couple years isn’t promising…

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 6:00 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I do think they're overpaying for Wood

but more importantly, I think “Yabuitian Mistakes” would be a GREAT name for a rock band.

by minda33 on Dec 10, 2008 7:32 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

no doubt

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 7:33 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That would also make a good name for a band

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 8:01 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Damn

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 8:08 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No offense...

but how have you not heard of Gwen Stefani yet?

by DarthYoshi on Dec 10, 2008 8:09 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It was a joke

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 8:10 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Those were good times...

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 8:11 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

sigh

My internet sarcasm radar still needs some fine tuning. Oh well.

by DarthYoshi on Dec 10, 2008 8:14 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

How About "The

Beatles"? No one’s using that one now.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 10, 2008 8:44 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

the times right before we faced facts

before we knew who Sarah Palin was

before the stock market crash

before we realized that Guillen’s coming down from his hot streak wasn’t so much “ebb and flow” as “regression to talent level.”

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 10:46 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1

I already have a running list of band names I want to use if/when I ever form my own garage band. The name perpetually at the top of the list is simply, “My Friend’s Band” (because everyone has a friend in a band and tells all their other friends, “hey, you gotta go see my friend’s band!”). But “Yabutian Mistakes” might sneak into the top 5.

by DarthYoshi on Dec 10, 2008 7:43 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My cover band is going to be called

Fan Fiction™

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 7:52 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

a couple of questions...

What music will you be covering?

Does the name of your band imply that you will be catering to the colossal base of ridiculously rabid Harry Potter fans?

I am only somewhat kidding with the second question. :)

by DarthYoshi on Dec 10, 2008 7:56 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

1) whatever I like and can play (from Zappa to ZZ to Ayler)

2) if by “catering” you mean “mocking”

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 8:00 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I always think of the most brilliant/hilarious band names

And then forget them right away. I like “My Friend’s Band,” a lot.

And just so we’re clear, “Yabuitian” is pronounced the same way as “Martian.” Like… Ya-boo-shin, right?

by minda33 on Dec 10, 2008 7:54 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hmmm, not sure

I believe Yabuta’s name is pronounced with a hard ‘t’, which would make “Yabutian” prounced, “Ya-boo-tee-en.”

Any linguists in the building? Bueller?

by DarthYoshi on Dec 10, 2008 8:06 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well yeah, I know "Yabuta" is a hard-T sound

but when I first saw the word “Yabutian” it sounded like “Martian” in my head. It’s my ban; I’ll pronounce it however I want!

by minda33 on Dec 10, 2008 8:08 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sorry

Finals week = I make things more academic than they need to be sometimes.

If I ever emcee for your band (I’m great at getting audiences to hand over money…), I’ll pronounce it however you wish.

by DarthYoshi on Dec 10, 2008 8:18 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No need to apologize

I’m gearing up for finals too, so I feel your brain’s pain.

And thanks, I will look to you to emcee for the Yabutian Mistakes someday.

by minda33 on Dec 10, 2008 8:23 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's Better Without

The article; just “Yabutian Mistakes”. I once called a band “Bluerock”, thinking it would evoke a small town in the rural southeast (we played southern rock/barroom boogie shit), and not once did it appear correctly on a marquee. Probably the worst was “The Blues And Rock Band”. I hate naming bands and titling essays.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 10, 2008 8:51 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

someone say linguists.....

don’t ask my pal Mr. Vina…….but when I read the thread, I was saying “Ya-boo-tee-en,” for whatever that’s worth. However, a Comm Arts teacher I am not.

by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Dec 10, 2008 8:16 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What time is the Rule 5 Draft tomorrow?

I can’t believe I’m that excited for something so lame.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 10, 2008 6:04 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Good question, I don't know

I think it usually starts in the morning…late morning?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 6:05 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Royals about to sign HoRam...again

Dutton has a few details here.

1 year deal, apparently, HoRam will be given a shot at winning a spot in the rotation.

by DarthYoshi on Dec 10, 2008 6:11 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

that's gotta be a RickRoll

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 6:11 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

sadly, no

i was expect Mr. Rick, but got a real dutton article

by CollininCalifornia on Dec 10, 2008 6:14 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

NO! He speaks the truth!

DarthYoshi says: “I find your lack of faith disturbing.”

Even more disturbing than completely unfounded, absolute lies regarding the trading of Mark Teahen.

by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 10, 2008 6:15 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If you need any help on your sermon series

on why positional adjustments should be done after hitting and defensive are taken into account, rather than adjusted to league average for positions in a given year a la VORP, you can email me for advice.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 6:23 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

unfortunately,

unless I receive my first calling at the Blessed Church of Statheads 4 Jesus, I think I may have to begin my sermon series on a more basic level, like why batting average and saves are overrated as statistics indicative of qualitative talent.

Part II, though, includes an in-depth discussion on what the Apostle Paul had to say about OBP.

by DarthYoshi on Dec 10, 2008 6:26 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

(insert joke about Daytons Moore's church)

I’m a Mennonite, so i grew up in a denomination that really underrates Orlando’s namesake. But ow we’re definitely on shaky ground…

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 6:29 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Making a joke about Moore's church didn't even occur to me...

I’m already punching my one-way ticket to hell already, or at least to a long-time stay in the retirement home of purgatory, so I need to take those good-natured shots when I can.

I’m a mainline Protestant, so I love me some Paul. Though my denomination still shares some common practices with the Mennonites, like believer’s baptism. But a number of my extended relatives are Roman Catholic, so I’ve learned things like how to cross myself like a pro (the movie “Keeping the Faith” helped). I also recite a plus plus Hail Mary.

by DarthYoshi on Dec 10, 2008 8:03 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Odd

I hope it is cheap and I hope they are smart enough to not actually let him start. Another lefty? Gotta trade someone.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 6:14 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If its a guaranteed MLB contract

Which I suspect it is, I’m not really a fan of this

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 10, 2008 6:16 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If it is small, I have no problem

I think he’s a decent reliever.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 6:16 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Weren't you

bemoaning the fact that everyone is down on GMDM? At least we get one of our Ram’s back…

by labbadabba on Dec 10, 2008 6:18 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

that's like saying...

We got one of the Dos Carlos back…and it happens to be the guy who played second base.

by DarthYoshi on Dec 10, 2008 6:19 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I figure

We can trade Teahen and Buck straight up for Beltran. See if it works the other way around. We’ll even dig up Wood and throw him in for good measure.

by labbadabba on Dec 10, 2008 6:26 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We get paulie orlando AND HoRam?

It’s an early Christmas! :)

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Dec 10, 2008 6:21 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I Was Out

Shopping for the perfect pole all day. Yes, she said that.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 10, 2008 8:56 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

and that is what she said

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Dec 10, 2008 10:20 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

H. Ramirez was good in 2008

Not great, but genuinely good. He’s overexposed as a starter, but pretty good as a reliever. As a reliever, he went mostly fastball-slider-cutter and pretty much did away with his weak curve and change. That’s what going to the bullpen does for a pitcher. You can afford to just throw your best pitches. He did, and the results (both old school and advanced metrics) were positive.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 6:22 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

you were right NYR

we essentially got Orlando for nothing

It takes 46 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip 'em the bird.

by kcscoliny on Dec 10, 2008 6:24 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Apparently

Hopefully we got H. Ramirez cheap.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 6:24 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Assuming a small deal

better him than the ’prof.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 6:24 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hopefully this is an either-or, not a both

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 6:25 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

the projections aren't helping figure out what to think

since they (understandably) scoop up all the data fro m the last three years and project ERA etc. from both his starts and relief apperances…

Is this confirmed? I have to say I still don’t get it, but again, it all depends on the money.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 6:28 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No confirmation yet

Only Dutton’s report which is lightly sourced. Yeah, projections really aren’t going to help. They don’t break it down by reliever/starter and they don’t take into account the fact that he was throwing different pitches in 2008.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 6:29 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1

If the state of our pitching staff is so abysmal that HoRam will be thrown into the rotation, then the Professor isn’t going to be able to help our bullpen much (not that he would have helped it much to begin with).

by DarthYoshi on Dec 10, 2008 6:28 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Maybe Ho Ram will be the sixth starter

…and given a “shot” to make the rotation in spring training. That “shot” doesn’t cost the Royals much (unless the make the wrong decision).

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 6:30 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I was hoping that Rosa would be able to fill that role

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 6:31 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Me too, and he might still

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 6:31 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1

When our rotation depth breaks down like this:

Greinke
Meche
Hochevar
Davies
Bannister
Rosa

…and HoRam is worse than all six of those guys, I’m not sure where that leaves him, except in the ‘pen. The only reason I could think of is that Rosa’s injuries from last year still have Moore and Hillman worried.

by DarthYoshi on Dec 10, 2008 6:32 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yeah, that's cool, but I hope he at least gets a shot

if not, it’s not a huge deal, since right now (from what little I know) he’d also be the only guy likely to approach Ramirez’s performance from last year.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 6:34 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah, there is reason for caution with regard to Rosa

I’d still start him some, as needed, with a hard ceiling on his innings pitched at about 120, maybe less.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 6:34 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Rosa pitched 99 innings last year

He also pitched 120 innings in 2007, so a limit of 120, maybe 125 innings, for 2009 sounds appropriate.

by DarthYoshi on Dec 10, 2008 6:48 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

dumb question, but I have to ask

obviously, spring training performance is irrelevant. But for pitchers, how should innings pitched in spring play into the ’total" for the year.

It’s not generally a bit deal, and I know the outings are generally shorter, but if, say, HoRam and Rosa are “competing” for a spot and Rosa throws 20 innings i the spring, and Rosa wins a spot, how should that figure into his ceiling of the year.

ON another note, it seems like the smart thing to do with Rosa would be to start him as a swingman and work him into the rotation halfway through the season, if needed, or to the setup role, if not.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 6:52 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

obviously, spring training performance is irrelevant. But for pitchers, how should innings pitched in spring play into the ’total" for the year.

I think innings pitched for a season always assume that this includes a good deal of warm up pitches, pitching on off days and the significant chunk of pitching in spring training (both “official” innings in A games and the many pitches thrown in B games, split squad games, intrasquad games, simulated games and workouts). In short, I wouldn’t count it at all, and assume it is part of the baseline for all pitchers.

ON another note, it seems like the smart thing to do with Rosa would be to start him as a swingman and work him into the rotation halfway through the season, if needed, or to the setup role, if not

That would be a safe way to keep him likely under the Rule of 30, but I think Rosa should be treated more gingerly than that. I wouldn’t have him exceed 120 innings and if he went into the rotation at the season’s midpoint, I think he’d likely exceed 120 innings. I think the smart thing is to start him as a swingman and then transition him into the highest leverage relief role that the quality of his pitching warrants. So if he is pitching very well, transition him into the #1 RH setup man role. I wouldn’t be afraid to give him some high leverage innings in April, just not too much right away.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 6:58 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

hmmm, I'm curious

about the last thing, since I know you’re probably the biggest Rosa fan on the site. Wouldn’t it make more sense to (within safety limits, of course) to let him pass/fail as a starter after the break then slot him in the rotation if it doesn’t work out? It just seems like teams (all teams, not just the Royals) have a hard time getting a guy chances to start once he’s a “bullpen guy.”

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 7:01 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Could be

I assume you meant, try him in the rotation and then send him to the bullpen if it doesn’t work out. I agree that organizations have a difficulty moving guys from the bullpen to the rotation. But I’d rather handle him cautiously to maximize his health and have him be a good bullpen guy than risk his health with too many starter innings so that he’s not relegated to the bullpen.

And, as much as I love Rosa, I am concerned that he might not be durable enough to ever be a 180 ip SP.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 7:05 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yeah, I read it now and it was confusing

Let me try to get it straight and clear for myself, at least:

1) start him as a swingman/middle reliever

2) if he’s healthy at the break, expand his role so that he gets at least some starts to make sure he at least gets to the ceiling if he performs (and so that if it works out he can pitch 30 + whatever the next year).

3) if he can’t stay healthy pitching that much and/or fails in the starting role, he can always be move to a shorter relief role

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 7:10 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'd tweak that

In 2009, I don’t want to wait until he proves he can’t stay healthy. I’d prefer to utilize some preventative therapy by making sure his innings stay down. What I’d do is start him as a swing/man middle reliever. He would also be the 6th starter. So whenever any starter needs to skip a start, or go on the DL or if someone is just stinking up the joint, Rosa gets the start. I’d give him a fairly hard innings cap at 120 or so. Once he hits the cap, shut him down. If he’s hit the cap, he would have made 7-10 starts. If he looked good in those starts, then I think the Royals would view him as a legitimate SP candidate for 2009.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 7:14 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

that's what I meant to say

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 7:16 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And my hard cap might be a bit too strict

It might make sense to do more of what you suggested and when he hits the magic number, move him to the bullpen and just limit his innings that way. I really don’t know how cautious they need to be. But in 2009, I’d certainly err on the side of caution. And I’d sit him or even DL him at the first sign of soreness and not wait for it to blossom into something big.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 7:18 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I originally meant

was supposed to include all outings in the hard cap

no use screwing the guy up just to spare the KC fans the (admiitedly horrible) 4 extra innings of Yabuta/other crappy reliever that would occur downt he daisy chain once Rosa gets shut down.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 7:22 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

be prepared to be disappointed

he’ll make the bullpen and they’ll never look back. which is probably the right thing to do at this point.

Founder of the Johnny Giavotella fan club.

by doublestix on Dec 10, 2008 8:03 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yeah, I think the bullpen is his likely permanent destination

Seems like a lot of lost starter potential. But maybe it is for the best. They know his physical condition better than I.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 8:05 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm Kinda Leery

Of his injury history, so I’d keep his exposure below the rule of 30, and lean toward actually decreasing his IP from last year’s total.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 10, 2008 9:05 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If his permanent home is the bullpen,

enjoy him all you can for the next two years. Unless he supplants Soria, he’ll probably be traded to fill a hole on the ML roster.

by Top Ramen on Dec 10, 2008 10:32 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Trying to

:(

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 8:02 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm hoping that Dayton simply said...

that he could “compete” for a rotation spot just as an inducement to get him to sign. HoRam has clearly established that his value lies solely as a valued member of the pen.

by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 10, 2008 6:31 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah, and it's not like H. Ramirez is a big FA who has to get major promises regarding his role in order to sign him

I bet he gets a pat on the back and an assurance they’ll look at him in spring training along with other starters.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 6:33 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nats offering Teix big boy contract 8/180

hmm I wonder how Aaron Crow feels about that.

It takes 46 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip 'em the bird.

by kcscoliny on Dec 10, 2008 6:31 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

wow

my salary chart doesn’t go out that far… and the monkeys don’t do as well with extremely good or part-time players, but that’s not totally insane. I wouldn’t go 8 years on anyone, though.

The Yanks really f-ed up. They should have been all over him for 6/150 earlier and let Sabathia wait.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 6:35 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If H. Ramirez does get signed, then I think some lefty pitcher is getting traded

Would they really go into the season with a bullpen with 3-4 lefties (Mahay, Bale, Gobble, and Ramirez), with Musser on deck as one of the guys who could get called up from Omaha and maybe Veal as a Rule 5 selection?

Or, maybe they plan to non-tender both Bale and Gobble and not select Veal.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 6:41 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm not going to even attempt to gloat

But I do find it highly ironic that the day after NYRoyal and I engage in a vigorous debate about the whereabouts of ex-Braves joining our beloved Royals, Moore acquires another ex-Brave for a second time…..twice.

by Royals Nation on Dec 10, 2008 6:44 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It amazes me that you still find this meaningful

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 6:45 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I just find it humorous, this time around.

I’m actually content with both signings, although neither are particularly meaningful. I was originally opposed to the HoRam signing, but was glad to be proven wrong. In retrospect, it was a good move in theory (exchanging him for Orlando). The Cuevas signing is a nice upside signing with almost no downturn. The bias is unquestionable, though, don’t you think, NYRoyal?

Note: I will say that the article references the Royals being willing to try HoRam out as starter. That would be a mistake, I think.

by Royals Nation on Dec 10, 2008 6:48 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The bias is unquestionable, though, don’t you think, NYRoyal?

No, of course it is not “unquestionable bias.” Good lord your thinking on this is incredibly narrow minded. Maybe, just maybe his acquisitions of Braves aren’t about his irrational bias towards them. Maybe it is because he knows a great deal about them and has a depth of information which helps him to know which ones really have talent and upside. Maybe that is why all but one of these acquisitions has been either neutral or positive. Apparently how good the acquisitions have been is irrelevant to you. You just see the number of players and jump to “bias!” Does the success and failures on that list you posted tell you anything about the value of Moore’s information or whether it is just bias? Do you care about that information at all? And if not, why in the world not?

Using H. Ramirez as a starter would be a mistake. Telling him that he’ll get a shot in spring training is not a mistake. We’ll see if they make the mistake.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 6:53 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The one negative one...Pena?

I do not think Pena was a mistake. I think it was a mistake to start him as long as he did. If we want cordier back, I am pretty sure he is available tomorrow.

by Trumanroyal on Dec 10, 2008 6:59 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Si

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 7:00 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

TPJ Had His

Day in the sun, and he actually helped the franchise through a transitional phase. Then he turned to shit. I really like the guy, but last year’s implosion at the plate and in the field convinced me he has no place on an MLB roster.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 10, 2008 9:10 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Agreed on all points

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 9:11 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1

it’s gotta be rough when your peak is a crappy Jack Wilson year, but for $400,000, I tip my hat. Pleasant journey, Jalapena.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 10:49 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Polarization, again

In the end, I don’t think it matters much. It’s merely a suggestion, albeit one without much, if any, proof. Moore has claimed that any organizational G.M. would have made as many moves he has made in the same situation (choosing many players from his former team). I just think it’s a minor, minor, minor blemish on his report card. Extremely minor. It does give RR’ers and other bloggers/message boarders room to poke fun at him a little bit, though.

I didn’t intend to hold a worldly debate on how ex-Atlanta players are destroying this organization. Nor did I intend to call out Moore as a bad G.M. for such moves. I just think he needs to look at the entire player pool, that’s all. The Braves were an excellent organization, but open your mind a little more. That’s all I’m arguing.

by Royals Nation on Dec 10, 2008 6:59 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I just think it’s a minor, minor, minor blemish on his report card. Extremely minor.

Ok, I think we agree on the magnitude of the issue. But since the moves, on balance, are significantly skewed to the positive, I can’t agree that it is a blemish.

he Braves were an excellent organization, but open your mind a little more. That’s all I’m arguing.

I just think his mind is very open to every organization, and that’s why he’s acquired players from many different organizations.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 7:02 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Did you all miss the Dayton article yesterday?

He admits to the stereotype of taking a lot of players from ATL. He also says (and probably rightly so) that there’s nothing wrong with it, because those are the players they know the best.

by Top Ramen on Dec 10, 2008 10:34 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

link me

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 10:49 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Here it is:

Linkified

"I can understand why people would speculate," Moore admitted. "Jeff is coming off a bad year, and they need pitching. We’ve, obviously, brought in a lot of Atlanta people and players from Atlanta.

"If anybody was in the same situation that I was in, they would do the same thing because it’s information that you have."

by Top Ramen on Dec 11, 2008 10:12 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

thanks

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 10:24 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He admitted that the Royals have brought in a lot of Atlanta people!!!!!!!!!

Was that fact in dispute…by anybody?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 10:59 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He admits to having acquired a lot of Braves

That’s like admitting that you go to sleep and night and wake up in the morning. There’s no debate on that point.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 11:20 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't know if Moore's perceived "bias" is...

as much a function of some irrational, put-the-blinders-on, focus on Braves’ players than it is that he obviously spent a ton of time evaluating many, if not most, of the players in the Braves farm system and feels comfortable in knowing what he’s getting.

I also think that he’s examined the Royals’ farm system extensively, and that has not been happy with the AAA or ML-ready bullpen arms in that system. So he’s going outside of it to pull in some guys from the Braves’ system who he thinks are more ready or better for his bullpen.

Are there any particular bullpen candidates within the Royals’ system that you think Moore is irrationally, and negligently, excluding from consideration for the same roles?

by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 10, 2008 6:57 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Are there any particular bullpen candidates within the Royals’ system that you think Moore is irrationally, and negligently, excluding from consideration for the same roles?

I have no idea. I really don’t. I’m saying that it might give us reason to believe he could have certain biases, in the future, with regard to distribution of playing time. The chances are rather low, but they’re there, I think.

by Royals Nation on Dec 10, 2008 7:03 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

When I saw that Cuervas thing

I just laughed. Man, that guy is being whored around.
It was also brought to my attention that the 40 man roster is at 39.
Best day of the Winter meetings… Rule 5 draft, w00! Here it comes.
Hope ESPN comes through on that.

by Royal from Queens on Dec 10, 2008 7:15 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1, rec'd

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 7:22 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's old school thinking

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 7:23 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Eaton, anyone?

Here is a story about the Phils wanting to dump Eaton for nothing… they’ll eat $8 Mil of the $9 Mil remaining on his contract, and want nothing in return.

Should we give him a shot?

by CollininCalifornia on Dec 10, 2008 7:37 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I dunno

he projects as barely above replacement level… as a reclamation project, maybe.

Don’t know much about him other than the suckiness, bad Rangers trades, etc. anyone else know if he has the stuff to be a bullpen reclamation?

Wouldn’t give any sig. talent for him.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 7:42 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

from the article

it sounds like they really don’t want anything.

by CollininCalifornia on Dec 10, 2008 7:43 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Adam Eaton is trash

Waste of time and money.
This is the same guy who stabbed himself in the stomach trying to open up a DVD package.
Yeah…

by Royal from Queens on Dec 10, 2008 7:45 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Gload for Eaton + $6M

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 8:03 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think I'd rather just keep Gload

Although you did spark a thought to the only player I’d trade for Eaton… Jose Guillen… surprise!

by Royal from Queens on Dec 10, 2008 8:08 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Adam Eaton can hurt the team alot more than Gload can

Eaton as the ability to give up 8 earned runs in 2 innings.
All Gload can do is make an out and sometimes not even with runners on base.

by Royal from Queens on Dec 10, 2008 8:19 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Reclamation projects don't need to hurt at all

You try them out and if they don’t work out, you bury them in the ass end of the bullpen or just release them. If they’re cheap, the loss is minimal. That’s what reclamation projects are for.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 8:21 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

he could be the new horam

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 10:50 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Eaton scouting report

Has a moving fastball ranging from 92-97 MPH, a very big-breaking slow curve, a good change and slider

I don’t know, might make a pretty good replacement for Ramierez

Go Royals!

by BabyBlues on Dec 10, 2008 8:17 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Unfortunately, he's lost a lot of velocity

His FB was at 91.5 in 2005. In 2008 it was down to 89.5.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 8:20 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That 2008 scouting report does not match up with the pitch f/x data on his actual velocity. Not even close. By 2008, Eaton’s velocity was below average for a RHP.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 8:32 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

A below average velocity fastball doesn’t help.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 8:56 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Put him in the bullpen

We said the same thing about HoRam’s velocity and look how the pen revived his career.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 10, 2008 9:48 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If we could get rid of someone like Gload and make the money right, I'd take him as a reclamation project

But HoRam never relied on his velocity, so his 90 mph fastball wasn’t a problem. When Eaton lost his velocity, he was naked out there. But I’d give him a shot, if it meant getting rid of Gload and saving some cash.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 9:51 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This is off-topic

….but I love the Justin Huber tag. Viva La Huber! Also, where did the Glass tag come from? Or is he relevant because of his promised payroll contributions that have enabled us to be associated with F.A.’s like Furcal?

by Royals Nation on Dec 10, 2008 7:38 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yeah, I just put Glass in there, because this is a significant week for him

He’d have to sign off on any potential high dollar FA.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 8:04 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Apparently it's official with HoRam:

Source
And then there’s this little nugget:

Meantime, Moore indicated the Royals are close to a deal in their quest for a right-handed setup man. But it’s not likely to come immediately.
‘I wouldn’t anticipate anything there until over the weekend or Monday, I would think,’ Moore said.

by minda33 on Dec 10, 2008 7:57 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yikes...Farnsworth gives me a sour feeling in my stomach

I hope it is Lyon.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 8:04 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

depends on money

Lyon looks pretty good on the projections, but (and I can’t believe I’m saying this) I’d rather get the prof for $500,000 than overpay a bullpen guy.

I know that’s vague and obvious, but you know what i mean.

In any case, farns + guillen + gibbons = I will cry for a week if the Royals don’t add MB to this merry bunch

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 10:52 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I really hope Moore isn't too desirous of a LH starter

There was a lot of talk about that in the MLB.com article that minda linked to above. But it was almost all from the writer and not from Moore’s quotes. Last year, the Royal’s craving for a lefty starter led to the overexposure of John Bale. I hope it doesn’t lead to a similar mistake in 2009. Having a lefty starter simply isn’t important.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 8:10 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

interpret that question in a way that makes me seem coherent, please

thanks

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 10:53 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nope

I saw one article at BP on this at some point (probably a couple years ago). Neutralize for pitcher talent, etc. and the evidence showed that mixing in a lefty doesn’t help. What helps is having the best possible pitchers in the rotation.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 11:21 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

that's what I would have guessed

I’d bet a dollar Branch Rickey knew this and shafted trade partners many times using this knowledge. Can’t say for sure. You a historican of the game, what’s the best book about him? I’m increasinly fascinated by him.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 11:25 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Don't know

I’ve read a few books which discuss him briefly, but I haven’t read a good biography of him. My fetish is on the early history of baseball (deadball era and earlier).

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 12:12 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Just like having speed at the top of the lineup isn't terribly important

Kevin Youkilis proved that pretty well I think.

I'm about to change my username to DannyDuffyfan

by jackie ballgame on Dec 10, 2008 8:11 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yup

This is what I think is important for leadoff hitters

90% OBP
5% speed
5% stolen bases (if and only if the player can steal at a better than 70% clip)

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 8:12 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Somehow The Fact

That Rickey was the best leadoff hitter of all time seems lost on the collective mind of MLB. His speed and steals were masking his true value; OBA and SLG. His career .279/.401/.419 is far more impressive than 1,115 steals in 1,450 attempts. Both ain’t bad. The fact that he is an impenetrable headcase makes it that much better.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 10, 2008 9:27 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1

devil_fingers’ bad

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 10:54 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Rickey On 3B

Less than 2 out; 3B coach gives him the standard spiel, “If this happens, do this, etc.”. Rickey , sublimely staring off into the stands, turns to the coach and says “Man, no one throw out Rickey.” Case closed.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 10, 2008 11:02 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

and then there's the quote from Rickey about Winfield and Mattingly arguing about

who gets to drive Rickey in

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 11:05 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Rickey rules

LIke James said, split him in half and you’ve got two Hall of Famers.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 10:54 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm starting to understand

That Dayton is a throw-back, old school baseball guy. He likes his pipsqueaks in the leadoff spot (“fleas” Earl Weaver used to call them), and he lives by the rule that you must have at least one left hander in the rotation.

I’m surprised he fired to Buddy Bell, to be honest.

I'm about to change my username to DannyDuffyfan

by jackie ballgame on Dec 10, 2008 8:13 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I wonder when we'll find out how much HoRam signed for

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 8:24 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

can't be much

I’m surprised he even got an ML deal.

Founder of the Johnny Giavotella fan club.

by doublestix on Dec 10, 2008 8:25 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I was certain someone would give him a ML deal

I think he’s a decent lefty reliever at this point in his career, and still pretty young. Many lefty relievers get ML deals.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 8:27 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Darren Oliver is still in baseball -- and got offered arb this year!

’nuff said

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 10:55 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I am amused by how ridiculously huge

that can is.

(That’s what she said, etc. etc.)

by minda33 on Dec 10, 2008 8:33 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Actually

If it were “cans,” plural, it’s probably more likely to be “That’s what he said!”

Just saying…

by DarthYoshi on Dec 10, 2008 8:39 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

True.

Now go study, young man! (Points an accusing finger at DarthYoshi)

by minda33 on Dec 10, 2008 8:43 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes, ma'am

For once, I got nothin’. I really should be cramming right now. Sigh.

by DarthYoshi on Dec 10, 2008 9:08 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

outstanding

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 10:56 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Glad I'm not the only one cramming

And losing half of my study time to Royals Review winter meetings threads. (Because if it weren’t for these winter meetings, I’d be sailing right along!)

I'm about to change my username to DannyDuffyfan

by jackie ballgame on Dec 10, 2008 9:17 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Me too

Damn you Ho Ram! Let me study!

by raefzilla on Dec 10, 2008 11:37 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nothing new here

just fun to see national people talking about the Royals.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;ylt=Aptt1X0lWJd8GQwySzOVmcRvLYF?slug=jp-furcalroyals121008&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

by I need more Esteban on Dec 10, 2008 9:17 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't know if this is the same article, but there is a good article on the Royals pursuing Furcal at Yahoo sports

You can find it here.

It says the Royals are trying to free up payroll room to sign Furcal. Trading Guillen is the key to that but interest in him has been “nearly nonexistent.” Further payroll could be cleared by trading Teahen, Buck and/or German.

The article says that KC believes it will take 4/44 to get Furcal. This implies that the Royals are willing to go that high. It also says that O-Cab is the backup plan and speculates that he would cost about 3/27.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 9:24 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If O-Cab for anywhere near 3/27 is the fallback plan for SS, I'm going to be so incredibly pissed

The degree to which that would be fucking stupid is beyond measure or even description. Hopefully this is hype Moore is creating to make it look like the Royals don’t need Furcal. I’d rather have Furcal for 4/44 than O-Cab for 3/21.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 9:26 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I Could Live

With a whole lotta Callaspo at 2B and Aviles at SS before I’d want to see that contract executed.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 10, 2008 9:33 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We need a new backup plan.

How about a second baseman instead?

Go Royals!

by BabyBlues on Dec 10, 2008 9:35 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ok, but I don't see a good option

Hudson is good, but expensive, and would cost the Royals a second round draft pick. I think Furcal is the only good middle IF option for the Royals to acquire this year. If we have to stick with Callaspo, so be it. He at least can put up a good OBP.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 9:37 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I Hear He

Has a decent jab, a fair uppercut, and an unlimited tab at the local bars, too.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 10, 2008 9:39 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Comparing the two middle infields

SS Aviles
2B Callaspo

vs.

SS OCab
2B Aviles

The first is better offensively and the second is better defensively. Let’s say it’s a wash, production-wise. And the first one is millions cheaper and doesn’t hamper the Royals from signing good FA’s this year or any future year. The right choice is beyond obvious.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 9:35 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

At Least To

Us.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 10, 2008 9:37 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

When the Royals lose out on Furcal...

…I’m not going to be able to get to sleep any night until someone signs O-Cab. If it is the Royals, I’m jumping off a fucking bridge. I would also start the “Dayton Moore for Assistant GM” campaign.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 9:38 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Off a bridge?

Man that doesn’t sound good. Sounds dangerous.
Don’t do it!

by Royal from Queens on Dec 10, 2008 9:40 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

NYC Has Some

Classic bridges if that’s the way you wanna go. The Lewis & Clark viaduct just isn’t the same as the Brooklyn Bridge.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 10, 2008 9:42 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'd have lots of good choices to pick from

At least that is some comfort.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 9:44 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

but they are all bridges to nowhere...

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Dec 10, 2008 10:29 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

don't do Brooklyn

do you really want to die with the giant red Watchtower sign as the last thing you see?

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 11:02 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You're probably right

But somebody needs to christen the new “RFK Bridge”

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 9:42 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think OCab + Aviles would almost certainly be better than Aviles + Callaspo

but not worth 3/27. No way. Not even the monkeys like that one.

They could almost live with Furcal for 4/44… but they are only statisticians, not doctors, so they dont realize that Furcal doesn’t have a chance in hell of playing %85 percent of his games next year.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 11:01 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I haven't crunched the numbers

But don’t you think that Callaspo would be better offensively than OCab? They might have similar OPS’s, but Callaspo should have a significantly higher OBP. Perhaps the larger defensive difference tilts the balance to OCab, but paying millions for that difference is like giving it away.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 11:24 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well, i agree that 3/27 is stupid for Cabrera

it all depends on his defense

(too many windows open… I’m going nuts keeping track)

Marcels has Cabrera at .314 wOBA next year, or -11/700.

Callaspo is at .315, or -10.3/700.

I haven’t seen any of the more advanced projections yet (well, there’s James, but, well, you know. They don’t like Callaspo anyway).

Not much data on Callaspo, of course. Cabrera being at least a decent defensive shortstop gives him the big projection edge over Callaspo’s questionable defense at second. Don’t think it’s $8.5M difference, personally, but I’m not the guy with the Masters in P.E., either.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 11:30 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think Callaspo is going to do better than those projections

Callaspo has a statistical history which doesn’t lend itself to accurate projections. And O-Cab’s defense is highly questionable. Some metrics love it and some hate it. The whole picture doesn’t look good to me.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 12:14 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

There's this irrational kid inside of me

who will be super excited if we land Furcal.

And I’m going to have to scold him and say “now don’t complain if we can’t sign Greinke”

I'm about to change my username to DannyDuffyfan

by jackie ballgame on Dec 10, 2008 9:28 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yeah... at least he'll be good for a little while

the Royals would be foolish to go 4/44 though, especially in their situation

If they do it, the Braves jokes will never die. And frankly, they shouldn’t.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 11:03 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The way this is going, I'm starting to think

that Shortstops are actually the currency of baseball. We should be stockpiling shortstops and catchers in the minor league system. If I’m JJ Piccollo, I’m using six of my top fifteen picks on shortshops and catchers.

I'm about to change my username to DannyDuffyfan

by jackie ballgame on Dec 10, 2008 9:30 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If trading Guillen is a necessary precondition to signing Furcal, we're screwed

And I don’t mean because Guillen can’t be traded. While it is difficult, I think that he and 3/4 of his contract could well be tradable. But it won’t happen until all of the better corner OFers are signed. And I doubt Furcal is going to stay on the market that long.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 9:30 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1

With Dunn and Burrell rumored around 12M a year, there’s no way any team is going to want to take on JoGui at 12M.

by Top Ramen on Dec 10, 2008 10:40 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I've fallen so far

3 months ago I would have been thrilled to get either of those guys for 12 per. Now I think it would be not so great.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 11:04 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You've Been Hoagied

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 10, 2008 11:07 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

or Tangoed

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 11:08 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

There was a time when I would have given Dunn much more than that

Then I was bewitched by the temptress of defense.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 12:08 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Did you see the Indians/Mets/Mariners trade

Looks like Shapiro has lost it. It makes no sense.

Chavez/Gutierrez/Ichiro might be a historically great defensive outfield

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 12:11 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yeah, I spoke to that a bit below

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 12:14 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I hope our pursuit of Furcal

Doesn’t mean we are no longer interested in gritty Craig Counsel

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 10, 2008 9:50 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Or, if we lose out on Furcal, that Counsel saves us from O-Cab

Please someone sign O-Cab soon. Please, please, please.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 9:52 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'd rather have Counsel

playing a crappy second base for 1/$5M than O-cab at 3/27 or even Furcal 4/44. I mean, either of those guys is better, but those contracts would be silly for the Royals.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 11:06 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

and I despise Craig Counsel

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 11:06 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He Just Wins

Because he’s made millions to be a sub-par MLB’er for a decade.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 10, 2008 11:09 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Only awesome hitters get to have screwy batting stances/swings

it’s the coolest thing about Gary Sheffield

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 11:11 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Whip It!

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 10, 2008 11:15 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Can you imagine being a Dad trying to convince you kid not to swing like that

while Sheff smacks line drives and home runs left and right (um, a few years ago)?

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 11:30 PM EST to parent up