Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Are The Orioles Bad Or Unlucky With Their Young Pitching?

Winter Meetings Day Four Open Thread

Jairo! Ho-Ram! Former Teahen-trade-rumor-partner F-Gut being traded to our hated rivals!

I can't keep up.

Comment 611 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

This horrible Farnsworth contract report bullshit is ruining my Rule 5 Draft excitement

Even a plate of Veal Jersey won’t make me happy now.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 9:02 AM EST reply actions  

It's ok.

At least we are on the FA market now and not looking for Rule 5 STARTING OFers.

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Dec 11, 2008 9:08 AM EST up reply actions  

But we need someone to replace RamRam! :P

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 9:18 AM EST up reply actions  

Go to hell

YOU still get to enjoy RamRam at $400,000. We have a guy that only scares someone in a basebrawl, and I’m pretty sure Teahen was joking about that anyway.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2008 9:27 AM EST up reply actions  

I really am going to enjoy RamRam :)

and hey….at least Professor Farnsworth is entertaining!

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 9:39 AM EST up reply actions  

You might want to check the projections on RamRam

They don’t expect a repeat performance in 2009.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 9:41 AM EST up reply actions  

I am aware that they're not as rosy

as Ramirez’s 2008. Reliever projections—most often correctly—don’t match the previous year. Fluky nature of relief pitching and all that. I still expect that Ramirez will be a plus in the pen and give the Sox a bit of a break from the Delcarmen Rollercoaster.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 9:44 AM EST up reply actions  

RamRam is at least above average

And above average is what the projections show for him so far. We’ll see what PECOTA, ZiPS and CHONE have to say.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 9:46 AM EST up reply actions  

Yep

Delcarmen’s breaking ball is a doozy, but his fastball location is suspect enough that it’s tough to imagine Ramirez not playing the set-up role better.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 9:50 AM EST up reply actions  

I've said it before, I'll say it again

tRA-based pitching runs above average (unleveraged) had RamRam as the third best reliever in the AL, right behind 2) Papelbon and 1) The Freaking Amazing, Even If You Hate the Yanks, Mariano Rivera.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2008 10:42 AM EST up reply actions  

Unleveraged, marcels has ramram at about .5 WAR

with setup man leverage, that’s ~ .75 war

This year, though, he was almost 2 WAR w/ leverage. I haven’t figured it with leverage, but his tRA*outs above average was almost as good in 2006. 2007 is part of his history, too, of course, but I don’t think this year was just a fluke (the BABIP numbers certainly don’t suggest it).

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2008 10:27 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, we coulda had Fulchino do that for peanuts

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 9:40 AM EST up reply actions  

Bring Back Quinn

And we could have a MMA franchise (that of course includes Olivo). Hoagie could be the colorful manager.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 10:02 AM EST up reply actions  

just think of the awesome WWE matches we could have!

Get the steel cage match, chairs, etc……Vince McMahon would be proud!

by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Dec 11, 2008 11:32 AM EST up reply actions  

we could bring back Mike Sweeney for throwback day

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Dec 11, 2008 2:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Yankees and Brewers trade Mike Cameron for Melky Cabrera

Brewers save money and get crap. Yankees spend money and get a good player.

Economic disparity really isn’t a problem anymore is it?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 9:06 AM EST reply actions  

disagree.

Melky is a STD!

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Dec 11, 2008 9:09 AM EST up reply actions  

STD = stud in HS lingo

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Dec 11, 2008 9:09 AM EST up reply actions  

he's a clubhouse STD

not quite as bad, but still a real pain

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 1:53 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't want to think about how an STD would be distributed around a clubhouse

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Dec 11, 2008 2:18 PM EST up reply actions  

hives!

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2008 2:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Those are fake

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 2:39 PM EST up reply actions  

did he use a Sharpie?

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Dec 11, 2008 4:57 PM EST up reply actions  

At least

he works hard at being a lazy faker

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 5:08 PM EST up reply actions  

A good player in decline

Not sure the Yankees won’t regret this one.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 9:10 AM EST up reply actions  

they will.

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Dec 11, 2008 9:11 AM EST up reply actions  

Of course,

I’m not sure that they’ll be burned on it either. It’s not like people think very highly of “Got Melky?” at this point.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 9:14 AM EST up reply actions  

Cameron should be much, much better than Melky

I think every projection is going to have Cameron doing much better than Cabrera. They certainly should.

And if you’re a super rich team, the fact that he costs more money is irrelevant.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 9:18 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm sure

But at this point, Cameron’s collapse/attrition rates should be high as well. I wouldn’t call him a plus, necessarily.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 9:23 AM EST up reply actions  

he's getting paid like an average player

I think he’ll come close to that.

If this moves Swisher to right, that’s good. Of course, now they need at 1B.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2008 9:28 AM EST up reply actions  

What else is new

Good luck in the Teixeira sweepstakes, Yanks. The NATS have apparently made an 8-year, 20 per offer.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 9:39 AM EST up reply actions  

Yankees are focused on Burnett

Something like 5/80 offer on the table.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 9:40 AM EST up reply actions  

Saw that, yeah.

I wonder if anyone’s quite crazy enough to match.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 9:41 AM EST up reply actions  

Don't Forget The

Limos for the lady.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 10:04 AM EST up reply actions  

Yep yep

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 10:09 AM EST up reply actions  

Swisher is expected to play 1B

Last I read anyway

Mike Jacobs you're 2009 AL MVP

by eboston on Dec 11, 2008 9:48 AM EST up reply actions  

theone position at which he wouldn't be an above average player

this remind me soooo much of the time they passed on Beltran

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2008 10:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Cameron was above average offensively and defensively last year...

and I believe he only has one year left on his contract. Not sure they’ll regret this one too much.

by djk royal on Dec 11, 2008 10:05 AM EST up reply actions  

If he collapses,

then they might. Cameron’s been around for a long time at this point.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 10:09 AM EST up reply actions  

For a 36-year-old playing a premium defensive position?

I don’t think “very unlikely” is the way I’d put it, even if I think Cameron will probably be “fine.” Maybe Cameron will continue to perform reasonably well, but he’s definitely past he peak and he’s never been a great contact hitter to begin with. A slight decline in bat speed could totally nerf his offensive value.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 10:25 AM EST up reply actions  

And no more PEDs!!!!

We saw what that did to Josie.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 10:26 AM EST up reply actions  

Oh yes,

that too. Cameron was suspended for violating the PED policy, which you might’ve missed since no one’s really keen to label “nice guys” as PED Villains.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 10:27 AM EST up reply actions  

screw nice

I just wish Hoagie had been half as good as Cameron on the field

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2008 10:29 AM EST up reply actions  

Don't worry!

Kahrl really likes the Royal off-season so far. We’re golden.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 10:30 AM EST up reply actions  

you're kidding, right?

I sure am glad that dumb Billly Beane locked up Mark Ellis for a below-average contract so that the Royals could focus on trying to get Furcal at 4/44!

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2008 10:34 AM EST up reply actions  

Not kidding about Kahrl's take

on the Royals’ off-season, actually.

Kidding, of course, in telling you not to worry. Worry!

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 10:37 AM EST up reply actions  

it didn't have to be this way

Zduioadfanik, or whatever the Mariner’s new guy’s name is, is a lot like more — highly respected player development guy. Scouting guy. Not a stats guy. He’s even older than Moore. Kinda fat in a fun way, too.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2008 10:44 AM EST up reply actions  

LINK, not like

Being up all night is not good for my brain.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 9:21 AM EST up reply actions  

We chatted about it a bit

Indians got hosed.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 9:22 AM EST up reply actions  

Hosed?

While a lot of warm bodies moved out of town, I’m not sure “hosed” is the word I’d choose. Certainly they didn’t get the best of it though.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 9:25 AM EST up reply actions  

Gutierrez is a plus CFer

And they got back an ok prospect and a below average reliever for him.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 9:29 AM EST up reply actions  

True

which makes for kind of a bad fit for a team with Grady Sizemore on it. Though I get your point below—the Indians should’ve got better value in this trade—I think this must signal that they’re planning on another move to to improve production at the other corner outfield slot.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 9:41 AM EST up reply actions  

it's more like the Mariners now seem like the hot shit front office

They got the underrated Endy Chavez as a 4th OF, then Endy, Jr. with a better bat in Fgut, then a bunch of other guys like Heilman.

It’s WAAAAY too early, but with all due respect to doublestix opinion of Valbunea, Zdurnkcksdf may already have passed DMGM on the “F-ing A” transaction monitor.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2008 9:30 AM EST up reply actions  

In short, the Mariners recognize the value of Gutierrez's defense

(and that is something that is more on the forefront of sabermetric thought)…while the Indians clearly do not.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 9:32 AM EST up reply actions  

yeah

although the Indians may prefer Choo in RF and Sizemore in CF. Not sure what their plan is in left, though.

I think Gutz is the onlly real “guy” they gave up, right? If Valbuena is as good as doublestix says, then this makes a bit more sense for them.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2008 9:33 AM EST up reply actions  

I don't necessarily have a problem with the trading Gutierrez

But if you do trade him, you have to get his true value back in return and they didn’t.

In the other thread, I wrote about Valbuena. I don’t know his tools, but his minor league stats aren’t impressive. First, he’s a second baseman, not a SS or similar premium position. Second, he doesn’t hit very well. He’d have to be one hell of a defensive SS to be an impressive prospect. Doublestix called him one of the most underrated prospects in baseball. I think there’s a reason he’s not rated very highly and why a smart front office got rid of him.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 9:37 AM EST up reply actions  

yea, I don't know much about Valbuena

I just trust doublestix on the minor leaguers ‘cause I don’t follow them that close, especially other teams. But I see your point.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2008 10:45 AM EST up reply actions  

stopgap

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 15, 2008 9:55 PM EST up reply actions  

I think there is a bit of overreaction going on

I will agree that I think the Farnsworth signing, as reported, is too much to pay. Personally, I would rather try out Rosa.

However, Moore to this point has done well with putting together his bullpens. If this is what it took to get Farnsworth, and DM thinks he’s THE guy, then let’s give Farnsworth a chance to fail before we dump all over it.

One of the problems that the Royals had under Allard Baird was a half-ass approach to building a roster. Too many marginal “name” guys that really weren’t worth much. Sure, the Guillen signing has turned out to not be great (and maybe DM should have seen it coming) but nobody is going to bat 1.000.

I’m not trying to paper over the issue, I feel like we’ve got some $$$ invested in the bullpen that we could have used to sign Furcal, but let’s inject a little moderation with respect to how these moves are portrayed. If DM does something genuinely stupid, like Greinke/Francoeur straight up, then we can revisit. But to expend our vitriol on the signings to date I think is jumping the gun a bit.

I hereby resign from this post.

by Home Run Tony Cogan on Dec 11, 2008 9:21 AM EST reply actions  

However, Moore to this point has done well with putting together his bullpens. If this is what it took to get Farnsworth, and DM thinks he’s THE guy, then let’s give Farnsworth a chance to fail before we dump all over it.

I think this contract is more than twice Farnsworth’s market value. Moore gets some benefit of the doubt on relievers, but not this much. To take a pitcher with a poor recent track record and give him this size of contract is a big mistake, period. And a waste of scarce resources.

One of the problems that the Royals had under Allard Baird was a half-ass approach to building a roster.

One of the big problems the Royals had under Allard Baird was spending too much money on sub-mediocre veteran FA’s (Elarton, Redman, Sanders). This contract is very much like theirs. Farnsworth is exactly the kind of marginal “name” guy that Allard picked up and gave too much money to.

This is genuinely stupid. It doesn’t have the impact of a Dye trade, a Guillen signing or a Greinke-Francoeur trade, but that doesn’t man it isn’t very, very stupid. And it also is one of the deals keeping the Royals from getting an impact player like Furcal. That’s pretty damend genuinely stupid.

Listen, I am almost always moderate about Moore. I have given him a lot of benefit of the doubt. I’m not quick to jump on him. I am always very fair to Moore. But in all fairness and honesty, if they really signed Farnsworth to a 2/9.25 contract, this was breathtakingly stupid and incompetent. And I don’t throw those words at Moore lightly.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 9:28 AM EST up reply actions  

No, I don't overreact much

and that is part of the point

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 9:49 AM EST up reply actions  

It really is

Pick up three failed relievers for nothing, throw them in a competition for a bullpen spot, and you won’t have paid anywhere near HALF of Farnsworth’s contract, and the worst case scenario is that you get equal performance to what he did last year.

by Bornin85 on Dec 11, 2008 9:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Is that really an overreaction?

I mean, look at Farnsworth’s numbers the last few years. Tell me how that’s worth a multi-year deal at 4.75 per.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 9:52 AM EST up reply actions  

He has good stuff.

Moore loves stuff and evaluates that more than peformance (see Tomko).

by djk royal on Dec 11, 2008 9:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Farnsworth's good stuff wasn't worth 2/$9.25M

He could have had him for less. And if he couldn’t, then he shouldn’t have wasted the money. The mere fact that he has a 95 mph fastball doesn’t mean that any amount of money thrown at him is justified.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 9:56 AM EST up reply actions  

And that didn't turn out very well.

You’re not making much of a counterargument here….are you agreeing with us that it’s a mistake?

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 10:08 AM EST up reply actions  

I think he overpaid by a couple of million...

but “breathtakingly stupid” is a bit over the top. 2/7 sounds about right to me. Moore evaluates players as a scout not so much on statistics so I don’t see why it’s so surprising Moore loves this guy. I do find it surprising that people legitimately thought Farnsworth’s market value was $1 million or $1.5 million. That’s crazy to me.

by djk royal on Dec 11, 2008 10:14 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm not sure why

it’s crazy to suggest that a homer-prone “set-up man” is worth very little. Farnsworth can’t be trusted in high leverage situations since he gives up the gopherball so often. Is a hard throwing glorified mop-up man only being worth 1 million unreasonable? Seems on target to me. At this stage in Farnsworth’s career, there’s not much reason to expect to improve.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 10:23 AM EST up reply actions  

When that homer prone set up man...

moves to a homerun friendly park and strikes out over a batter an inning and has good stuff then maybe it is a little crazy.

by djk royal on Dec 11, 2008 10:25 AM EST up reply actions  

Are we talking about the same guy?

Sure, Farnsworth can miss some bats. But there’s a certain level of gopherballitis that completely negates a relief pitcher’s value.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 10:26 AM EST up reply actions  

We're talking about market value

What do you think the market value of a 30-something middle reliever coming off of two shitty years? Does every reliever coming off two shitting years get two guaranteed years at more than $4M per?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 10:43 AM EST up reply actions  

Yankee Stadium is far from homerun friendly....

sure there’s a short porch down the line, but the power alleys are ginormous for righties.

by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Dec 11, 2008 1:30 PM EST up reply actions  

That's neither here nor there

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 10:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes It Is

It’s there.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 10:46 AM EST up reply actions  

Objection

completely irrelevant

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 10:44 AM EST up reply actions  

Its a shrewd move by Dayton

To make the HoRam signing look brilliant in comparison

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 9:55 AM EST up reply actions  

This is breathtakingly stupid, but with a lower impact than those moves

Even moderate sized moves like this one can be breathtakingly stupid and incompetent.

And when you’re trying to clear payroll room to sign an impact player and you do this, well the impact is even more significant.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 9:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Do you think

Moore is incompetent? I’m not being combative, I really am asking. I don’t, I think on balance he’s done a pretty good job so far. Maybe a mistake, but not incompetent.

I hereby resign from this post.

by Home Run Tony Cogan on Dec 11, 2008 10:11 AM EST up reply actions  

I think this move was incompetent

The overall picture is more murky. Overall he’s been good on pitchers and bad on position players.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 10:44 AM EST up reply actions  

If Guillen is traded

then we have money for Furcal. 12M – 4.6M = 7.4M

Gullen going was the only way we’d ever get Furcal.

By the way, I’m starting to think that the Royals were putitng out misinformation on how much they were willing to spend to be able to be stealth players in the Furcal sweepstakes. At first, it was “no increase in payroll”. Then it was “we can increase to $70, but we can’t go higher”. And now we’re at around $75? Throw another 10M per year on and let’s go to 85, dump Guillen and were back down to $73.

by AxDxMx on Dec 11, 2008 11:33 AM EST up reply actions  

My 2 cents

I do not like the signing much either but I think it can work out in a few different ways. Farnsworth has closed, so it does give the Royals a back-up closer (if they feel they need such a thing). This will also make moving Soria into the rotation an easier proposition to sell should Hillman be thinking about trying this experiment. I’d like to see Soria given a shot in the rotation a la Gobble in 2006.

Also, as long as Farnsworth pitches well at all he is very tradeable after this year. He could be flipped in 2010 pretty easily if the Royals find themselves looking to dump players that July.

www.rockchalktalk.com for pretty good KU baseball coverage

by James Quinn on Dec 11, 2008 1:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Its early in the morning

But either the Royals just signed a mediocre relief pitcher to an absurd amount of money, or I’m dreaming and I’m about to show up to school naked.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 9:50 AM EST reply actions  

It's COLD outside.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 9:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Also really disappointed

All it took to get the best defensive outfielder in baseball was a reliever and a minor league infielder.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 9:52 AM EST reply actions  

Don't worry,

we’ve got Coco now!!!111

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 9:53 AM EST up reply actions  

I look forward to a drunken Kyle Farnswoth

beating the living shit out of me and my friends when we jump on his float at the Plaza during “the” parade

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2008 10:32 AM EST up reply actions  

I got your back.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 10:33 AM EST up reply actions  

they didn't publish pitchers (line)

but Marcels has him as a below replacement level player in both ERA and FIP so…. I’m guesstimating something around $0.0. Maybe as high as $300,000. Seriously, that’s what they would say.

I guess my overall thing, djk, would be that Farns would be an okay sign as a Ho-Ram (part I) -esque reclamation project. But reclamation projects are signed to the league minumum or minor league deals. Maybe if Moore (who has done well in the past) likes his stuff, then MAYBE a $1M deal with incentives (I think that’s too much, still)…

I just don’t get this at all. This is a move that in the best case scenario, might barely pay off. Even if you like Moore’s scouting skills, this still doesn’t make sense in terms of payroll management. Russ Springer at 2/5 would have been pretty silly, but would be smart by comparison.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2008 10:39 AM EST up reply actions  

Oops

I meant that I didn’t do a spreadsheet for pitcher because of the complexities of projecting playing time, especially for relievers. Also, I’d have to choose between FIP and ERA when projecting value, and I’m not sure what is better for gauging market value, which is what the spreadsheet is “testing”

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2008 10:50 AM EST up reply actions  

Signing Farnsy

Reminds me of entry #7 in this list

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 10:05 AM EST reply actions  

Yup

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 10:07 AM EST up reply actions  

RULE 5 DRAFT NOW!

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 10:09 AM EST reply actions  

I was just about to ask about that. What pick do we have?

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Dec 11, 2008 10:20 AM EST up reply actions  

I Hope It's

A sandwich pick. I’m hungry.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 10:22 AM EST up reply actions  

I think #11

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 10:27 AM EST up reply actions  

Only Veal, Skelton

or that awesome 7-1 Dutch guy can save us now

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2008 10:39 AM EST up reply actions  

Farnsworth Can't Hit,

Either. In his NL years he put up a .074/.121/.093 with a -44 OPS+. That’s how I evaluate AL relievers.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 10:22 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

What about his defense?

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 10:27 AM EST up reply actions  

He is good at standing on a small hill sometimes.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 10:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Maybe If He

Grew a beard and stood facing CF until he pounded the ball in his glove, then turned and stomped to the rubber, flinging the ball angrily in the general direction of the catcher, he could be an effective MLB reliever. We could call him “The Mad Irishman”. That would at least have some entertainment value.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 10:54 AM EST up reply actions  

I know this has been covered ad nauseum

But I’m just adding a voice to the “You’ve got to me kidding me” camp on the Farnsworth deal.

We gave him HOW much?

I am not exaggerating when I say this, not one bit: I wouldn’t give Farnsworth a one year, $1 million contract. Wouldn’t do it.

I'm about to change my username to DannyDuffyfan

by jackie ballgame on Dec 11, 2008 10:37 AM EST reply actions  

+1

Do we have confirmation?

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2008 10:40 AM EST up reply actions  

+1

Holy crap was this ever a bad deal!

I'd rather be watching baseball.

by Sisquatch Kids on Dec 11, 2008 10:45 AM EST up reply actions  

No confirmation

Just the radio repeating Phillips report

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 10:49 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm going to wake up now, right

sorry, I just can’t get over that this happened

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2008 10:46 AM EST up reply actions  

Rule 5 starts at 11 am CST, Noon EST

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 10:45 AM EST reply actions  

As anyone else read this?

from the story on the Royals website about Farnsworth

Farnsworth has produced a 30-48 record with a 4.47 ERA in 109 seasons
,


109 seasons? How old is this guy?

Mike Jacobs you're 2009 AL MVP

by eboston on Dec 11, 2008 10:47 AM EST reply actions  

222

same age as me.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 9:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Christ almighty, the Royals site confirms the 2 years, $9.25M contract

There are no words.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 10:50 AM EST reply actions  

Maybe the plan is to have him room with Gload so that Gload retires, thus freeing up that 2.9

then he gets moved to Hoagie’s suite to see which of them cracks first.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2008 10:51 AM EST up reply actions  

I wonder what grade Dayton Moore deserves as a general manager during his tenure with the Royals

C- maybe. No better than that. That might be generous. This offseason has been a failure so far, and there isn’t money left to do much of anything else.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 10:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Moore has been good on pitching and bad on position players

And one could argue that he has been so unrelentingly awful with regard to position players (majors and minors) that this tips the balance to below average overall. This offseason is a big data point. And it has been a failure. $13.9M for these three players, including giving up Ramirez and Nunez? That was incompetent.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 11:33 AM EST up reply actions  

That is a really overly simplistic way to view a GM
As to say, "he’s good at pitching, bad at position players."

That is an accurate description of his track record with the Royals.

Moore was given crap to work with, and he has still managed to do a lot.

I give him credit for what HE has done. The moves he’s made and failed to make.

But really, and I know you know this, there is way more to a GM’s job than signing FA’s for the big league club

Yes, many more things. Including trades. And there have been some real stinkers.

Moore has done so much for our farm system that in the long run, the Royals will be a better franchise for what he has done (PS: how has Moore been "unrelentingly awful" with the position players in our farm system? We didn’t have any good position players in the farm system besides Butler and Gordon when he showed up).

Moore has built up the pitching in the farm system very, very well. With the exception of the two first round picks, he’s done absolutely nothing of significance on the position player side.

I didn’t like the Jacobs trade, but all it cost us is about 2.5M and an oft-injured middle reliever; in the grand scheme of things, it is fairly minor.

No, it’s not. Moore has made this the Royals solution to their 1B problem. The solution was to give up a good reliever for a 1B who doesn’t hit very well (decent power for a 1B and horrible OBP) and is awful defensively. He’s saddled the Royals with another Gload-like solution (not as bad as Gload, but another guy who is going to take up space at the position, not be good enough for the position, and make too much money for his subpar production)

I have grown to be optimistic that we will come out ahead on the Crisp deal—again, we simply gave up a reliever whose stock will probably never be higher than it was then, and Crisp + moving DDJ to left should make our OF defense way better, which is no small thing when everyone in our rotation except for Hochevar are flyball pitchers.

I’m pretty neutral on the Crisp deal. I see the positives. But it was stupid to work hard to acquire a CFer when what the Royals needed was a corner OFer.

I don’t like the Farnsworth signing either, but I say this in the nicest possible way: chill out and put this into some perspective.

I really, truly am putting this in perspective.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 11:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, Moore’s track record has been good on pitchers, bad on position players, but that doesn’t equate into he has done the franchise more harm than good, which is what a C- grade basically means. His whiffs on position players have been outweighed qualitatively by how he has built our pitching staff.

I’m not saying there haven’t been some real stinkers by Moore—indeed, I acknowledge it. But I think you are evaluating his overall tenure in a not very holistic way.

If Moore’s philosophy has been (and I generally think it has), in the draft, to take the best player available, then it makes sense that he grabs pitchers like Melville and Montgomery at the expense of position players. Yes, we are still lopsided towards pitchers, but the last thing I would want is for Moore to start drafting to need to try to correct that imbalance.

I genuinely don’t think Jacobs is seen as the solution to our 1b problems—his defense makes him an occasional 1b at best and a frequent dh. If he means the end of Gload, that is a good thing. + Jacobs – Gload = better Royals. Yes, losing Nunez sucked, because he pitched well when he was healthy, but he never was healthy and pitched in middle relief. That is about as expendable a player as you get. What we lost was relatively minor. I’m still not a fan of the Jacobs trade, but it is a molehill, not a mountain.

Ok, at this point, you’re not even warranting why it is stupid to get a CFer. DDJ is still above average as a LFer, all things considered, and Crisp’s upside isn’t at the plate—it is in the field, and if he is the defender he was in 2007, he’ll save us a lot of runs.

Yeah, we were all hoping for a big FA signing again and an extension for Greinke. I’ll withhold judgment on how Moore does this offseason until we see what happens with Greinke—if nothing happens (no extension, no trade), then yes, the offseason was a failure. But we’ll see what happens. So, again, chill. Chill is good. But that is easy for me to say, I live in, like, the capital of chill.

by DarthYoshi on Dec 11, 2008 1:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, Moore’s track record has been good on pitchers, bad on position players, but that doesn’t equate into he has done the franchise more harm than good, which is what a C- grade basically means.

I would say that a C- grade means a below average GM. And a below average GM does not necessarily mean one who has done more harm than good.

BTW, this “grade” is tentative at best.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 1:11 PM EST up reply actions  

I think it's tougher to hit on position players

Pitchers are easier to project.

Maybe it will just take more time to nail it all down.

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Dec 11, 2008 1:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Actually, I think pitchers are much, much harder to project

They have a much higher failure rate than position players.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 1:45 PM EST up reply actions  

+1

Farnz is not a good idea… but I agree. Let’s chill out. Hopefully we’ll all be laughing in 2011.

by CollininCalifornia on Dec 11, 2008 12:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, C- might be an overreaction, but

when your previous GM was a clear F+, you’d think C- was an A. Allard gets the + on the F because apparently ownership didn’t give him actual money to work with.

by AxDxMx on Dec 11, 2008 11:38 AM EST up reply actions  

Oh, I don't think Moore deserves an A by any standard

I’d probably give him a B- at most. But on balance, I think he has done more good for the franchise than bad. I think that much is very clear.

by DarthYoshi on Dec 11, 2008 11:46 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree

he has done more good than harm, I was just cracking wise.

If Moore somehow signs Furcal, then we will win the division, and he goes to A+.

by AxDxMx on Dec 11, 2008 12:07 PM EST up reply actions  

really?

Furcal would at most give the Royals 3 wins over Callaspo — assuming Callaspo really sucks at a German -like level, and Furcal stays healthy, plays 150 or so games, and does so at the level he played at in 2006.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2008 2:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Grade inflation

Today a C- is roughly equal to what a D was 15 years ago. Students today think they all start at a B, and as long as they do the minimum their grade should stay there.

I’d give Moore a B old school standard.

www.rockchalktalk.com for pretty good KU baseball coverage

by James Quinn on Dec 11, 2008 1:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Let me guess

You went to school 15+ years ago. And let me also guess that you didn’t take engineering classes at Iowa State. Ha

I would love B’s this semester.

At least Wally Joyner's not on the team....

by tcon125 on Dec 11, 2008 1:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, I'm old.

And no, I didn’t take engineering classes. And I have the paychecks to prove it!

www.rockchalktalk.com for pretty good KU baseball coverage

by James Quinn on Dec 11, 2008 1:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Of course there are words

“This is the largest contract ever awarded to a middle-reliever who totally sucks.”

Unless Bob McClure can work miracles, I can’t see this being a good thing at all.

Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!

by cmkeller on Dec 11, 2008 10:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Anyone got Tonya Harding's phone number?

Maybe she needs to make a quick buck.

I'd rather be watching baseball.

by Sisquatch Kids on Dec 11, 2008 10:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes, Only She

Could mastermind a plan of this magnitude.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 10:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Calling Tonya Harding!

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 10:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Dayton Moore has spent $13.9M to make this team maybe a win or two better

Development of young players is going to give the Royals a few extra wins. But Moore’s acquisitions have been a horrible value for the money they cost. What an awful waste of money that could have really helped the Royals win more games.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 10:58 AM EST reply actions  

$13 million

Could have landed you Rafael Furcal AND Juan Rivera, or simply Adam Dunn.

I think I’d rather land one big fish, than lots of little fish, especially if the little fish are replacement level

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 11:01 AM EST up reply actions  

Well, I don't know if it could get Furcal and Rivera

But it could certainly get you Furcal, or maybe Dunn, or maybe Bradley.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 11:02 AM EST up reply actions  

MIKE ARBUCKLE NOW!

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 10:59 AM EST reply actions  

So much for making room in the payroll for Furcal

what a fucking joke. Maybe the Royals will contend once Moustakas and Hosmer are in their prime.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 11:00 AM EST reply actions  

I think you're taking this a bit too far

You seemed rather mildly optimistic after the Jacobs/Crisp deals. Farnsy doesn’t really change that much. At worst, he’ll suck and we’ll just be out the money. It isn’t like we dealt Billy Butler for Yunieski Betancourt.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 11:03 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

You seemed rather mildly optimistic after the Jacobs/Crisp deals.

I thought they made the team a little better and the development of young players would get the Royals to .500. But the succession of bad moves makes it look more and more like Dayton Moore isn’t the kind of guy who helps you get over the big hump which lays between .500 and contention.

Farnsy doesn’t really change that much. At worst, he’ll suck and we’ll just be out the money.

 We were in the running for Furcal and reportedly trying to make payroll room to sign him. Now you can forget about that. And there isn’t money left to get any impact players this offseason, so .500 mediocrity is the most we can hope for. And this stupid two-year commitment somewhat hurts our flexibility to sign an impact player next year.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 11:06 AM EST up reply actions  

What's the succession of bad moves since the Coco deal?

Getting Cuevas? HoRam?

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 11:11 AM EST up reply actions  

The succession of bad moves this offseason

Jacobs (clearly bad)
Coco (a little bad…overall ok impact, but a wrong headed move to acquire a CFer when we didn’t need one)
Farnsworth

That’s a horrible combination of moves to spend all of the available payroll budget on. And taken as a whole, that’s fucking awful. Making no trades and spending the money on one good player would mean having Furcal, R. Ramirez and Nunez on the same team. That is considerably better, and a little cheaper.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 11:14 AM EST up reply actions  

So with Farnsworth and HoRam signed

Do we have roster space left for a Rule 5 pick?

by AxDxMx on Dec 11, 2008 11:41 AM EST up reply actions  

Neither has officially signed yet

Farnsworth has to take a physical and then sign the deal. HoRam hasn’t even been announced yet. So there is room. But with their addition, and a Rule 5 acquisition (if we do it), two will have to come off the 40-man to make room.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 11:43 AM EST up reply actions  

Well that's not really a problem

There are at least a couple guys we could do that to isn’t there? Like TPJ and ROSS GLOAD!! If we trade Guillen for a Turkey sandwich, do we have to put the turkey sandwich on the roster?

by AxDxMx on Dec 11, 2008 11:44 AM EST up reply actions  

If they want to make a pick

they can make the pick, put the player on the 40 man roster, and drop someone like Mario Lisson a few days down the road when HoRam’s deal is finalized. That would let them pick someone without having to worry as much about losing the guy they drop from the 40 man roster.

by Top Ramen on Dec 11, 2008 11:50 AM EST up reply actions  

OK, Now I'm

In the “glass half broken” mode.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 11:02 AM EST reply actions  

I'm with you

The really sad part about this for me, is that I was hoping the Royals had a pretty good general manager. Now I’m hoping he’s going to do some things to make me believe he’s average.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 11:03 AM EST up reply actions  

If He Can

Trade Hoagie for a leftover turkey sandwich all will be forgiven.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 11:04 AM EST up reply actions  

Maybe If It's

A decent dry red.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 11:07 AM EST up reply actions  

Done. I'm Getting

My hammer and shopping for supplies right now.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 11:34 AM EST up reply actions  

Your analysis is top notch as ever!

Wrong on part one, wrong on part two. Thanks for playing.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 11:07 AM EST up reply actions  

It's All About

The hyperbole!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 11:09 AM EST up reply actions  

He gets an A for hyperbole

I won’t grade the rest.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 11:09 AM EST up reply actions  

That Red "x"

was supposed to have been more !1’s and a 2/9.25.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 11:12 AM EST up reply actions  

Today is the 19th anniversary

Of the Royals signing Mark Davis, if that tells you anything.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 11:04 AM EST reply actions  

Fortunately, There Is

No comparison between Farnsworth’s and Davis’ deals, especially in constant dollars.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 11:11 AM EST up reply actions  

True, but there is a good comparison in the Sullivan, Henry, Elarton, Redman and Sanders deals

That’s a real murderer’s row of awful signings.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 11:12 AM EST up reply actions  

They're almost for the same amount of money in absolute dollars

I believe Davis signed for 3 years $9.25 million, not too far off, although off by one year.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 11:12 AM EST up reply actions  

Davis Magically Transported

from 1989 to 2008 would probably get 5/75 from someone.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 11:14 AM EST up reply actions  

Probably more like K-Rod's deal

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 11:17 AM EST up reply actions  

+2

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2008 2:43 PM EST up reply actions  

I think there must be an error in the text

I’m certain it’s actually a 9 year $9.25m deal.

by jsolo on Dec 11, 2008 11:12 AM EST reply actions  

I agree, he overpaid for Farnsworth...

which to me makes no sense. If you’re going to deal RamRam/Nunez, you gotta know where those arms are going to come from, and you can’t convince me Farnsworth at 4.5M+ was part of that plan. I think he panicked.

by Bart41 on Dec 11, 2008 11:14 AM EST reply actions  

The two worst signings of Moore's tenure have both seemed like he panicked

Jose Guillen and Kyle Farnsworth. Neither one had much in the way of suitors, they both fit the hole that had to be filled, and the Royals offer was far above what the market should’ve been for them.

by Top Ramen on Dec 11, 2008 11:21 AM EST up reply actions  

Yea, who else was after Farnsworth?

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 11:21 AM EST up reply actions  

Haven't heard rumors of anyone else

There was the interview where his agent said he was going to pimp him to the Royals, but didn’t mention any other teams.

by Top Ramen on Dec 11, 2008 11:23 AM EST up reply actions  

good point

make that “had” to be filled, though

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2008 2:44 PM EST up reply actions  

It is on the Royals official team site

That’s 100%

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 11:15 AM EST up reply actions  

Wait, I figured it out. It's definitely a typo

Site says 2 years 9.25m, I think it’s actually 20 years 9.25m. They just left off a zero. It’s okay. We’re okay. No need to panic.

by jsolo on Dec 11, 2008 11:17 AM EST up reply actions  

Farnsworth is the bane of my existence

I'm about to change my username to DannyDuffyfan

by jackie ballgame on Dec 11, 2008 11:17 AM EST reply actions  

Overpaid, sucks, and he's an asshole too!

He’s the complete player. Had to have a pitcher to complement Guillen.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 11:18 AM EST up reply actions  

How many jerks can we have on one team?

This must certainly make us the favorite for Milton Bradley. And I bet we get Elijah Dukes too.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 11:22 AM EST up reply actions  

Consider

Furcal for $44 million = huge injury risk
Rivera, Dunn, Burrell – horrible defenders on a team that is already bad defensively.

The point is, if we signed Furcal or anyone else we’d all be shitting all over ourselves talking about the negatives of those signings as well.

I agree that we’ve overpaid for Farnsworth, but let’s take a breath and put it in perspective.

Besides, look at the bright side, nobody is going to fuck with this team, they will kick some serious ass!

I hereby resign from this post.

by Home Run Tony Cogan on Dec 11, 2008 11:18 AM EST reply actions  

The point is, if we signed Furcal or anyone else we’d all be shitting all over ourselves talking about the negatives of those signings as well.

No, we wouldn’t be shitting ourselves. We’d be happy about it, but recognizing the risks. The key difference between signing Furcal and acquiring Jacobs/Crisp/Farnsworth is that Furcal has the upside to really help a lot. Those three do not. Their upside is just ok performance.

I agree that we’ve overpaid for Farnsworth, but let’s take a breath and put it in perspective.

I have. The opportunity cost of these three moves is staggering. It’s painful to see what we could have got, and what we got instead, for more money, and that we had to give up talent for some of it.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 11:21 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes, but only because of Kevin Seitzer

155-7!

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 11:23 AM EST up reply actions  

McClure Will Turn

Him into a crafty lefry.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 11:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Or Maybe Even

A crafty lefty.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 11:36 AM EST up reply actions  

Now that idea I like

Lemons -————- lemonade

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 11:36 AM EST up reply actions  

Crafty LeFry

wasn’t she one of Olivia Newton-John’s sidekicks in Grease

I should probably stop commenting, here, since there’s been an overflow

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2008 2:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Pirates are about to sign

Ramon Vazquez’s mustache to a two year $4 million deal

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 11:23 AM EST reply actions  

Clearly German has some trade value then

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 11:24 AM EST up reply actions  

So now a Furcal deal

Almost has to hinge on dumping Guillen and nearly 100% of his salary?

by Top Ramen on Dec 11, 2008 11:25 AM EST reply actions  

Yes, unless Glass is willing to increase payroll even more (it's up to $75M now)

So forget about Furcal, or Dunn or Bradley or any potential impact FA. It’s over. We chose Farnsworth instead.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 11:27 AM EST up reply actions  

Wouldn't it hinge

by your rational that Farnsworth is costing us Furcal, then wouldn’t it hinge on KC eating $4.25 M?

by GoBabies!! on Dec 11, 2008 11:29 AM EST up reply actions  

No

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 11:34 AM EST up reply actions  

Farnsworth

I’m not a fan of this deal, but I don’t think it is going to be a factor in us going or not going after a Furcal/Rivera/other FA…..

$9+ M over 2 years is high, and I think it could have been better spent, but it isn’t by any means a crippling deal. i.e. comparing it to 3/36 for Guillen is not valid IMO.

I personally would have preferred Lyon, even at $1-$2M more per year, but I’m not cursing GMDM about this one. He filled a need.

While Farnsworth is hardly a leader in terms of charachter (not that he’s JoGui or anything), he is a frigging COMPETITOR. He’s the kid of guy, like Pierzinski that if you are playing against him, you freaking HATE his guts, but if he is on your team, you have to love his fire.

by GoBabies!! on Dec 11, 2008 11:27 AM EST reply actions  

He's such a competitor

His team last year dumped him in the middle of a pennant race.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 11:31 AM EST up reply actions  

Do you think Moore and Glass are lying about the payroll budget?
I’m not a fan of this deal, but I don’t think it is going to be a factor in us going or not going after a Furcal/Rivera/other FA…..

Moore said his ceiling was $70M and that he has to get Glass’s permission to go over that. With Farnsworth signed, we’re now at $75M. They had an outside chance to trade most of Guillens’ contract away to make room to sign Furcal. Now they’d have to trade all of his contract away. Now that they’ve wasted $4.6M on Farnsworth, where is the money for an impact FA?

While Farnsworth is hardly a leader in terms of charachter (not that he’s JoGui or anything), he is a frigging COMPETITOR.

Oh great. Jose Guillen is also a COMPETITOR. You know what is more important than being a competitor? Being a good baseball player. Guillen and Farnsworth are lacking. But maybe their competitiveness will overcome the fact that they suck.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 11:31 AM EST up reply actions  

You too

You’re out of control!!!!!!!!!!!!111

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 11:34 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm a realist

I’m not a negativist, nor a Moore basher. I call it straight. Always have.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 11:35 AM EST up reply actions  

I

agree that you believe you call it straight, but you definitely have a more negative view toward the bulk of moves. Your arguments are generally (if not always) sound & based in reality.

I just think this is at worst a ‘meh’ type of deal. Like I said, it’s not going to cost the ability to sign anybody else. And, lets face it, a good deal of yesterdays discussion was about how we SHOULDN’T sign Furcal, and now this deal is, in some peoples mind (not mine) not allowing that to happen.

by GoBabies!! on Dec 11, 2008 11:39 AM EST up reply actions  

I just think this is at worst a ‘meh’ type of deal

Wildly overpaying for a bad reliever is not ‘meh’. It is doubly not ‘meh’ when it is two guaranteed years (hurting your ability to sign good players for two years). It is triply not ‘meh’ when it makes certain you can’t sign an impact FA.

Like I said, it’s not going to cost the ability to sign anybody else.

Did you read my post? Are you not familiar with the payroll budget and that we’re over it already by about $5M? Of course this is keeping us from signing a genuinely good FA.

nd, lets face it, a good deal of yesterdays discussion was about how we SHOULDN’T sign Furcal, and now this deal is, in some peoples mind (not mine) not allowing that to happen.

Nope, yesterday’s discussion led to a consensus that we should sign Furcal for the right price. Some thought 3/36 was a smart ceiling. Some thought more like 4/44.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 11:47 AM EST up reply actions  

the majority of people

thought anything OVER 3 years was bad

by GoBabies!! on Dec 11, 2008 11:48 AM EST up reply actions  

And the "payroll Budget"

You are referencing is complete speculation.

I don’t give a shit what GMDM has said publicly, we can spend a LOT more than what they have said publicly. Again, estimates from local & National media have placed revenue sharing at OVER $50M for ’08. Glass has a large share in one of the few business in America that is profiting greatly over our current economic crisis. Plus we are opening up a majorly renovated ball park next year and were sold on that as taxpayers with promises of a competitive product.

There is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON that KC can’t have an $80-$90M OR MORE payroll in ’09. NONE. ZERO.

by GoBabies!! on Dec 11, 2008 11:52 AM EST up reply actions  

And the “payroll Budget”
You are referencing is complete speculation.

Moore said in the Star that $70M was about the top of the payroll budget. Do you think Moore is just speculating too?

I don’t give a shit what GMDM has said publicly, we can spend a LOT more than what they have said publicly

So you think Glass is wiling to take the payroll up to 85, 90, 95M? What do you base this on? Spoken with him recently? You may want him to spend that much, but thinking he’s willing to do it at this point, especially in this economy is like believing in Santa Claus.

There is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON that KC can’t have an $80-$90M OR MORE payroll in ’09. NONE. ZERO.

Is there “absolutely no reason” to think that Glass doesn’t want to spend that much? In reality, you have no reason to believe he’s willing to kick the payroll that high. You’re living in a dream world.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 11:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Not wanting to

And not being able to are two differnt things

by GoBabies!! on Dec 11, 2008 11:59 AM EST up reply actions  

He has every ability to do so, and remain in the black as an owner. It sure appears that GMDM is prying some of that cash away from him.

by GoBabies!! on Dec 11, 2008 12:03 PM EST up reply actions  

I think just about every team can afford to spend much more on payroll than they do

But they have budgets nonetheless. Owners aren’t willing to just spend every penny of revenues, or even 90, or even 80. So yes, Farnsworth has killed the Royals chance to sign an impact FA, because like every team the Royals have a budget and limited payroll flexibility. This is the real world.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 12:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Rany's recent post...

on the relatively incredible (given overall economic conditions) performance of Wal-Mart stock may have Glass feeling particularly randy, financially-speaking, these days.

Of course, like you said, it’s all speculation until the money is actually spent.,

by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 11, 2008 1:06 PM EST up reply actions  

what?

I know we are going to disagree on this, but Jacobs, no upside? Come on.

In the Royals game of life, Neifi Perez is the rake.

by Matty486 on Dec 11, 2008 11:28 AM EST reply actions  

He's at his peak

He’s likely to have a .300 OBP and a .500ish SLG. Think he’s still improving at his age?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 11:35 AM EST up reply actions  

ops

872 out of florida last year

In the Royals game of life, Neifi Perez is the rake.

by Matty486 on Dec 11, 2008 11:39 AM EST up reply actions  

By that small sample of data tells me all I need to know, doesn't it?

If you’re going to use stats, use them right.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 11:59 AM EST up reply actions  

no

You picked an argument, found stats that would back it up, and used them that way. You didn’t look at the numbers, assess them , an then create your agrument.

In the Royals game of life, Neifi Perez is the rake.

by Matty486 on Dec 11, 2008 12:01 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

IM AWAKE

Furcal cmon over. welcome farnsworth ? ok

Werd.

by focs on Dec 11, 2008 11:33 AM EST reply actions  

Not surprisingly

The Farnsy deal is going over well at Royals Corner.

I can’t wait for Rob Neyer to bitch and moan about it.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 11:36 AM EST reply actions  

What is up with those people?

Who are they? Toolsy prospect junkies?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 11:37 AM EST up reply actions  

Any move is a good move

To them.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 11:38 AM EST up reply actions  

Never Confuse Motion

With progress.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 11:39 AM EST up reply actions  

And bag of crap

Would still field better than Mike Jacobs!!!!

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 11:56 AM EST up reply actions  

If We're Lucky

The only thing Jacobs will regularly defend is home plate when he has 2 strikes on him.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 11:57 AM EST up reply actions  

I dont mind it.

Farnsworth isnt worth the money we gave him but

he had a very unlucky bapip and surely his HR rate wont be as high next year in kauffman.

Also I thought we all agreed upon not criticizing moores bullpen consruction CMON NY GET ON TOP OF IT

Werd.

by focs on Dec 11, 2008 11:39 AM EST up reply actions  

So long as it doesn't keep us from signing Furcal

I’m okay with it. Sure we overpaid, but Farnsworth has a decent chance of being okay.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 11:42 AM EST up reply actions  

if we are truly after Furcal

this deal wouldn’t cost us him at all

by GoBabies!! on Dec 11, 2008 11:44 AM EST up reply actions  

What is going to piss me off

is when we don’t sign Furcal, he signs with whoever for 4/44 or something like that, which was over the general consensus that we established in the discussion yesterday, and people say that Farnsworth cost us Furcal…

by GoBabies!! on Dec 11, 2008 11:46 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm not positive about that

I don’t think DM would have signed Farnsy if it jeopardized him going after Furcal. Either he convinced Glass he can go after both, is convinced he can move Guillen, or decided the asking price for Furcal wasn’t worth it.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 12:04 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree

Given Moore’s history at building bullpens with cheap options (I think Farnsworth is his biggest contract for a reliever, no?), and his obvious interest in Furcal, I don’t think Dayton would have signed Farnsy if he knew that it meant he would be over-budget for a likely, reasonable contract number for Furcal.

UNLESS…Glass told him that he’d go another $5M per on the budget, and no more, at which point Dayton may have just said screw it, and blew the rest of the wad on Farnsy.

by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 11, 2008 1:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Rany on Farnsy

Kyle Farnsworth: His name has come up several times as someone the Royals are strongly pursuing. I don’t see it. Farnsworth throws really hard, and as a 25-year-old setup man for the Cubs, he struck out 107 batters in 82 innings, with a 2.74 ERA. The problem is, now he’s 32 years old. He signed a three-year deal with the Yankees before the 2006 season, and over the last three years his ERAs are 4.36, 4.80, and 4.48. As much as I appreciate his service on behalf of Yankee-haters everywhere, I’m not sure his mediocrity was intentional, especially since he had a 6.75 ERA last season after the Yankees foisted him on Detroit.

Farnsworth still strikes out about a man an inning, and walks about a man every third inning – that’s something to build on. But he’s way too prone to the long ball. Kauffman Stadium will help some, and maybe Bob McClure will help some, although Farnsworth isn’t exactly famous for his coachability. If the Royals are looking at a 1-year, $2 million deal or something, he’s a nice flyer to take. But he’s coming off a 3-year, $17 million contract, and is probably looking for something comparable. The danger is that the Royals pay a 32-year-old pitcher based on his potential, not on his reality.</em<

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 11:37 AM EST reply actions  

If the Royals are looking at a 1-year, $2 million deal or something, he’s a nice flyer to take.
Yup. $2.5M is a stretch. $3.5M is a big, big stretch. $4.5M is an awful deal. Two years guaranteed at that amount is an atrocity.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 11:39 AM EST up reply actions  

OK.....

we know how you feel about the deal. No need to beat a dead horse.

by powder blues on Dec 11, 2008 11:50 AM EST up reply actions  

If other people talk about it, can I respond?

Or am I not supposed to speak?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 12:00 PM EST up reply actions  

jacobs

NYRoyal, you are just way too narrow minded about this guy. I don’t know if you know this, but he’s not playing most of his games in Florida next year. And what are his numbers away from Florida? Look at them, the past 3 years.
OBP 348, 327, 329
OPS 799, 782, 872

That’s not as bad as you are making it out to be.

In the Royals game of life, Neifi Perez is the rake.

by Matty486 on Dec 11, 2008 11:38 AM EST reply actions  

I don’t know if you know this, but he’s not playing most of his games in Florida next year.

Oh! Condescending sarcasm…I’ll play! I don’t know if you know this, but he’s going to another power-sapping ballpark. And I don’t know if you know this, but the competition level (including pitching) is higher in the American League.

I’d direct your attention to projection systems that take all of this into account, but they come from computers and that might make your head explode.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 11:42 AM EST up reply actions  

irony

I’m reading your posts from one of my 3 computers

In the Royals game of life, Neifi Perez is the rake.

by Matty486 on Dec 11, 2008 11:52 AM EST up reply actions  

Irony

In you whining about computers incessantly in another thread.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 12:00 PM EST up reply actions  

whining?

Hey, we’re just having fun here. No whining. You big baby….jk.

In the Royals game of life, Neifi Perez is the rake.

by Matty486 on Dec 11, 2008 12:02 PM EST up reply actions  

If Hillman Is

Smart enough to limit his PA’s against LHP’s, he could actually improve his numbers.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 11:42 AM EST up reply actions  

NYRoyal

I still have to laugh at the conversation we had a few days ago in which you predicted Farnsy would get $950,000, and I predicted $1.75 million, and we both agreed that anything more than that would be stupid.

Boy were we naive!

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 11:44 AM EST reply actions  

I'd laugh if I weren't crying

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 12:01 PM EST up reply actions  

What if.....?

Farnsworth proves to be a reliable 8th-inning guy who throws 70 innings, has a 3 ERA, and serves as a competent bridge to the Mexicutioner? Is it still breathtakingly stupid and incompetent?

by dpenn_2s on Dec 11, 2008 12:13 PM EST up reply actions  

If he pitches like that for two years, he can make it a good deal

But it still seems like Moore didn’t have to pay him double his market value to sign him. that much money in two guaranteed years?

And the odds of him pitching like that are miniscule.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 12:14 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t know if you know this, but he’s going to another power-sapping ballpark.

Oh cmon with that, dont act like Dolphin stadium isnt bigger than kauffman

 I WANNA PLAY

I dont know if you know this but Kauffman doesnt have a 434 FT dip in the wall which Jacbos hit like 4 directly in that dip that would have been a homer

I dont know if you know this but Jacobs did that a lot in various parts of the park and probably would have been a homer anywhere else

Werd.

by focs on Dec 11, 2008 11:44 AM EST reply actions  

yes

all of that.
Hey, and quit dogging on my sarcasm. It’s almost as much fun typing it as using on my students.

In the Royals game of life, Neifi Perez is the rake.

by Matty486 on Dec 11, 2008 11:54 AM EST up reply actions  

I think Jacobs will get a few HRs at Kauffman that wouldn't have have made it out in FL

but due to the difference between AL and NL starters, he’s probably going to lose a few HR overall.

by Top Ramen on Dec 11, 2008 11:57 AM EST up reply actions  

The balance of power is due to shift from AL to NL any time now

Look at the NFL for gods sake. The AFC has been dominate for years, and the NFC is kicking their ass this year.

It happens in every sport. The West in the NBA was wretched in the early-mid 90’s, that flipped on its axis too

It’s going to happen, its just a matter of when IMO

by GoBabies!! on Dec 11, 2008 12:05 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

The balance of power is due to shift from AL to NL any time now

When that happens, I’ll recognize it. Until then, you have to adjust for league. Right now the league adjustment hurts Jacobs and cancels out any small park benefit he might get.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 12:07 PM EST up reply actions  

no you wont recognize it

No offense, nobody will be able to forcast it exactly IMO. Projections won’t take that into effect, until it happens either

by GoBabies!! on Dec 11, 2008 12:08 PM EST up reply actions  

The AL has been better than the NL for several years

There’s no reason to expect that this changes in 2009, except for wishful thinking. I prefer realism over wishcasting.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 12:09 PM EST up reply actions  

again

the AFC dominated the NFC for damn near a decade. There was no reason to think pre-season, that this season was any different, but it is.

by GoBabies!! on Dec 11, 2008 12:11 PM EST up reply actions  

NFL has more unrestricted free agency

Expecting change because you want it isn’t very realistic.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 12:12 PM EST up reply actions  

im not expecting change in '09

Im not expecting change any time.

Change is certain at some time, speculating when is fools gold

by GoBabies!! on Dec 11, 2008 12:13 PM EST up reply actions  

So your point is anything can happen?

Agreed. Unfortunately that bit of wisdom doesn’t help us at all in evaluating Jacobs.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 12:15 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

You keep saying that like it is a negative.

That means Jacobs has very legit homerun power and might easily hit 40 even in the AL.

Go Royals!

by BabyBlues on Dec 11, 2008 4:19 PM EST up reply actions  

It means we shouldn't be overjoyed about what he can do in Kauffman Stadium

Some were stating or implying that playing half of his games at the K instead of in south Florida would help his power. The data doesn’t support that.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 4:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Rule 5

MLB.com has learned that the Washington Nationals will take RHP Terrell Young from the Reds organization with the first pick of the Rule 5 Draft today.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 11:46 AM EST reply actions  

where?

can I follow the draft?

In the Royals game of life, Neifi Perez is the rake.

by Matty486 on Dec 11, 2008 11:58 AM EST reply actions  

Veal

just went to Pittsburgh

by powder blues on Dec 11, 2008 12:07 PM EST reply actions  

No Veal Jersey! :(

NY Royal – step away from the bridge. I know it’s been a rough day. You can make it. In 2 years, you won’t remember the Farnsworth deal even happened. Remember where the parade is going to be.

by jsolo on Dec 11, 2008 12:10 PM EST up reply actions  

What a wonderful day to be a Royals fan

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 12:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Kansas City

takes Jose Lugo from Rochester (MInn)

by powder blues on Dec 11, 2008 12:09 PM EST reply actions  

http://minors.baseball-reference.com/players.cgi?pid=23739

Good velocity, has some command issues it seems

6-1 159….tall but lanky. I like the build

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 12:10 PM EST up reply actions  

159 my god!

He is playing pro ball and not one person has shown him the weight room, or better yet what food is.

At least Wally Joyner's not on the team....

by tcon125 on Dec 11, 2008 12:57 PM EST up reply actions  

What's a Jose Lugo?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 12:10 PM EST reply actions  

Not a Julio, thank goodness

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 12:12 PM EST up reply actions  

And yes

if someone brings up Farnsworth then you can talk……lol.

by powder blues on Dec 11, 2008 12:10 PM EST reply actions  

thanx

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 12:12 PM EST up reply actions  

for the love of god

nobody bring up farnsworth!!!! :-P

by GoBabies!! on Dec 11, 2008 12:14 PM EST up reply actions  

From BA
The Royals took hard-throwing lefty Jose Lugo from the TWins

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 12:11 PM EST reply actions  

OK... there is so much junk...

where are we at and is there a site for the rule 5?

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Dec 11, 2008 12:11 PM EST reply actions  

We lose Gilbert de la Vara

To the Astros

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 12:11 PM EST reply actions  

stats on lugo

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Dec 11, 2008 12:12 PM EST reply actions  

well that didnt' work.

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=$09393&position=P

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Dec 11, 2008 12:12 PM EST up reply actions  

i suck.

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=$09393&position=P

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Dec 11, 2008 12:13 PM EST up reply actions  

http://minors.baseball-reference.com/players.cgi?pid=23739

4.04 ERA in 69 innings in high A ball at the age of 24. 76-33 K-BB ratio

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 12:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Another lefty for the pen? And a human stick figure?

I think his odds of staying with the Royals for the season are less than 25%

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 12:13 PM EST reply actions  

Gobble and Bale

Will be non-tendered today, I’m quite certain.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 12:14 PM EST up reply actions  

wow

upset over trading away a human stick figure, and we sign one and he is shit

by GoBabies!! on Dec 11, 2008 12:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Talking to me?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 12:16 PM EST up reply actions  

that's funny.

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Dec 11, 2008 12:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh great

Gobble makes sense, but Bale should be brought back. Another thing to piss me off today.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 12:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I think he will be

But he’ll be non-tendered first

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 12:17 PM EST up reply actions  

You think there will be no other market for Bale?

Trust me, the stat-friendly organizations will like him.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 12:20 PM EST up reply actions  

He may like us

For giving him the first chance. We’ll see. I think you’re right though there will be a market for him.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 12:26 PM EST up reply actions  

 Show Partial Seasons | Show Postseason
Season Team W L ERA G GS CG ShO SV BS IP TBF H R ER HR BB IBB HBP WP BK SO
2006 Twins® 8 4 3.56 13 13 0 0 0 73.1 71 33 29 3 21 7 70
2006 Twins (A) 1 4 4.45 22 0 0 0 2 28.1 30 16 14 1 13 2 32
2007 Twins (A) 5 6 4.32 40 7 0 0 2 77.0 87 43 37 6 39 5 73
2008 Twins (A+) 2 6 4.04 51 0 0 0 1 69.0 68 34 31 4 33 8 76

Advanced
Show Partial Seasons | Show Postseason
Season Team K/9 BB/9 K/BB HR/9 AVG WHIP BABIP LOB% FIP
2006 Twins® 8.59 2.58 3.33 0.37 .256 1.25 .332 69.6 % 2.97
2006 Twins (A) 10.16 4.13 2.46 0.32 .273 1.52 .377 66.5 % 2.99
2007 Twins (A) 8.53 4.56 1.87 0.70 .286 1.64 .360 71.8 % 4.03
2008 Twins (A+) 9.91 4.30 2.30 0.52 .259 1.46 .351 72.5 % 3.53

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Dec 11, 2008 12:13 PM EST reply actions  

Morlan to Milwaukee

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 12:13 PM EST reply actions  

Has anyone seen this on HoRam
Ramirez will earn $1.8 million, just $200,000 less than the Astros gave Mike Hampton. He also has the chance to earn $1.1 million in bonuses if he becomes a starter and $500,000 if he becomes a reliever. The Royals do not have a left-handed starter

Werd.

by focs on Dec 11, 2008 12:21 PM EST reply actions  

Wow

And the hits just keep on coming.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 12:22 PM EST up reply actions  

ho-ram

was effective last year when used properly out of the pen.

Hampton’s arm has been surgically reattached about 6 times and has thrown a combined 150 innings over the last 2 years with about a 1.5 WHIP and about a .3/K inning.

by GoBabies!! on Dec 11, 2008 12:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, he was effective and I actually like the Royals signing him

Again, the problem is the money. The Royals overpaid for mediocrity. $1.8M guaranteed with significant performance incentives. Was anyone else going to throw that much money at him coming off only one pretty good season?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 12:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Again, its not your $$

And Glass has plenty more to spend.

by GoBabies!! on Dec 11, 2008 12:28 PM EST up reply actions  

He's not going to spend a big chunk on an impact FA

I admire your blind faith though.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 12:31 PM EST up reply actions  

is our glass half full now? Or empty?

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Dec 11, 2008 12:33 PM EST up reply actions  

It was half full and then DM spilled it

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 12:34 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm Back From

The pool, and my glass is still half broke.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 3:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Grrrrr

I didn’t really think he was worth much more than a million, if that, and probably should have gotten a split contract.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 12:26 PM EST up reply actions  

He's not worth more than a million

It’s Christmas for mediocre baseball players!

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 12:28 PM EST up reply actions  

At least it makes this beautiful woman happy

And I like making beautiful women happy

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 12:29 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I See A

Big rock in her future.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 3:19 PM EST up reply actions  

$15.7M

Jacobs+Crisp+Farnsworth+HoRam = $15.7M

This is how adding a bunch of pieces of mediocrity keep a team from getting over the top.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 12:23 PM EST reply actions  

Dont worry

Furcal is on his way

Werd.

by focs on Dec 11, 2008 12:24 PM EST up reply actions  

What if he isn't?

Sometimes the sky really is falling.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 12:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Gotta have faith/hope

It’ll happen. im very confident.. Royals 60% Dodgers 20% A’s 15% Blue Jays 5%

Werd.

by focs on Dec 11, 2008 12:26 PM EST up reply actions  

This is eerily reminisicent of an Allard Baird offseason

Filling all of the “holes” with mediocre major league veterans rather than getting one really good player and filling the rest with freely available talent.

I still hold out hope that Furcal is coming though.

by Top Ramen on Dec 11, 2008 1:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Farns, HoRam, and Jacobs are stupid whether Furcal comes or not

it’s going to cost downt he road

Especially if Farns can’t get back above replacement level…

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2008 2:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Jose Lugo

http://www.futureredbirds.net/2008/12/07/rule-5-lefties/

    * Jose Lugo, Twins: Lugo is only coming off a full season in the Florida State League, but has the extreme ground ball tendencies that make Dave Duncan’s heart go a pitter-patter. Lugo is known for a heavy sinker he throws in the low to mid-nineties, and he struck out 9.2 batters per nine with a 57.3% groundball rate.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 12:25 PM EST reply actions  

So correct me if im wrong

But doesnt the Rule 5 mean the player has to spend the year in the MLB or he goes back to his old team ?

Werd.

by focs on Dec 11, 2008 12:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Correct

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 12:28 PM EST up reply actions  

K cool.

He had preety dominant strike out numbers last year also

Werd.

by focs on Dec 11, 2008 12:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, or we can just offer him back to his old team at any time

We’re not locked in. We can cut him loose.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 12:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Ok, I get it

I’ve died and this is hell. I knew I shouldn’t have jumped off of that bridge.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 12:25 PM EST reply actions  

I'm being negative about real, substantive things

…not emotional overreactions to every little piece of BS. Yes the Royals will be better. I’ve said that for weeks, including today. But Moore’s acquisitions have only helped a little. He could have wisely spent the money to help the Royals more and without giving up talent, but he didn’t.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 12:30 PM EST up reply actions  

we'll find out how much they help.

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Dec 11, 2008 12:31 PM EST up reply actions  

yes we will, but right now it doesn't look good

Well, it looks about 81-wins good (if no major injuries to key players). And with less financial flexibility next year to make a real move.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 12:32 PM EST up reply actions  

And as I said earlier

i thought we all agreed to not criticize any of DM’s bullpen building skills WTF NY

Werd.

by focs on Dec 11, 2008 12:32 PM EST up reply actions  

No one agreed

I"m not very agreeable

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 12:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Substantive? IYO

Fans would rather bang on actual plays and on field activity as opposed to projections/past performance which is what you are doing. These aren’t good deals but they are hardly organization crippling.

It takes 46 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip 'em the bird.

by kcscoliny on Dec 11, 2008 12:35 PM EST up reply actions  

They keep the team from getting better in a significant way

But I guess complaining about a guy not stealing in the 3rd inning of a game is more meaningful. Are you real or do I just dream you?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 12:36 PM EST up reply actions  

How do you figure?

Crisp, Jacobs are 1 year deals they are 1 year only moves unless they perform to an ability to extend keep them around. If KC is actually competing in ’09 whether we want to admit it or not Jose Guillen would have to be a major reason for that and if he is having a goode season it is much easier to unload him. Farnsworth is a bad signing but thank god it probably prevents KC from overpaying Furcal/O-Cab to longer worse deals.

It takes 46 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip 'em the bird.

by kcscoliny on Dec 11, 2008 12:54 PM EST up reply actions  

How do you figure?

I’m talking about for 2009. An addition could have been made to help the team over the next 3 years (getting into contention years) if not for this assemblage of mediocrities. And then there’s the risk that Moore overvalues Jacobs and Crisp again and keeps them and their raises for 2010. And of course Farnsworth’s money is there for 2010 as well.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 12:56 PM EST up reply actions  

I kind of like it myself

KC could’ve went out and signed Furcal to 4/44 or Dunn or someone else in the attempt to make a move in ‘09 and hurt the longterm vision. Jacobs/Crisp/Guillen aren’t longterm guys the team is still centered around Alex/Billy/Pitching hopefully one of them steps up and makes them a contender in ’09.

Cleveland, Chicago and Detroit have gotten significantly weaker in my mind and KC could move into that second tier following Minnesota.

It takes 46 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip 'em the bird.

by kcscoliny on Dec 11, 2008 1:02 PM EST up reply actions  

KC could’ve went out and signed Furcal to 4/44 or Dunn or someone else in the attempt to make a move in ‘09 and hurt the longterm vision.

That isn’t about making a move in 09. That is about contending within 3 years.

These moves don’t help in the short-term or the long-term. They just spend money to tread water. Woohoo!

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 1:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Royals get P Luis Ortega

From the Nats in the minor league portion of the Rule 5. He does not have to spend the whole year at any level, he is OURS!

http://minors.baseball-reference.com/players.cgi?pid=36076

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 12:31 PM EST reply actions  

he's a hottie?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 12:35 PM EST up reply actions  

I think that.

While no one is really thrilled about some of the moves that most of us arent going insanely crazy like yourself lol

Werd.

by focs on Dec 11, 2008 12:38 PM EST up reply actions  

You should be

And it isn’t just any one move (although the Farnsy signing is spectacularly atrocious). It’s the whole offseason coming to a head today. Today’s moves combined with Jacobs and Crisp are a major FAIL. $15.7M on four mediocrities (being kind to Farnsy here).

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 12:40 PM EST up reply actions  

You wont convince me

Im one of the few fans of the Jacobs and Crisp deals.. i dont like the farnsy that much but i can still breathe

Werd.

by focs on Dec 11, 2008 12:40 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Royals lose Russ Haltiwanger in the minor league Rule 5

Then Ruben Gotay trade is officially over.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 12:31 PM EST reply actions  

Addition by subtraction

Something good happened for the Royals today! I assume we didn’t lose Nicoll or anyone else in the major league phase.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 12:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Just Gilbert de la vara

No loss really

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 12:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Astros

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 12:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes

Houston picked him in the major league phase.

by powder blues on Dec 11, 2008 12:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Wow, weirdness

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 12:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Oretga is a stud.

13 walks in 75 innings? Who cares where you are, that’s great.

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Dec 11, 2008 12:37 PM EST reply actions  

how are the strikeouts?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 12:38 PM EST up reply actions  

preety damn good..

35 in 32 innings year 1

49 in 43 innings year 2

his ERA was sick to. just digusting

Werd.

by focs on Dec 11, 2008 12:39 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm going to be shocked if the Royals don't sign Orlando Cabrera now

One last begging session from Moore to Glass. And Glass agrees to give up $9M more to sign Cabrera for 3/27.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 12:38 PM EST reply actions  

ummm...

is that sarcasm. Because the team that signs Cabrera loses a draft pick right?

by AxDxMx on Dec 11, 2008 12:54 PM EST up reply actions  

It might be sarcasm

But signing O-Cab would be par for the course. And multiple sources have said that we are interested in him. At least two reported that he is our fallback plan if we don’t get Furcal. But these are rumors, so who knows.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 12:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Actually (if anyone is reading this)

although I would oppose signing Cabrera for 3/27, and it poses a larger overall risk, it’s not close to be the overpayment that the Farnsworth deal would be.

For one thing, Cabrera projects to be league average or just below, whereas Farnsworth projects to be replacement level or substantially below

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2008 2:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed

The percentage of overpayment here is staggering. I’m still shocked.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 3:09 PM EST up reply actions  

HAHAH
Royals near deal with Farrnsworth

Thats the headline on MLB.com

Farrnsworth

Werd.

by focs on Dec 11, 2008 12:43 PM EST reply actions  

Jose Lugo

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 12:44 PM EST reply actions  

Somebody sent him a box of steaks

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 12:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Also in the minor league portion

Royals get C John Suomi (Arbuckle has a bias towards ex-Phillies!!!111)

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/S/John-Suomi.shtml

And P Carlos Arias

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/A/Carlos-Arias.shtml

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 12:45 PM EST reply actions  

Any second now

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 12:49 PM EST up reply actions  

We cant afford him

We signed Farnsworth

EYE ROLL EMOTICON INSERTED HERE

by GoBabies!! on Dec 11, 2008 12:50 PM EST up reply actions  

We can afford anybody

There is no payroll budget. Glass will spend any amount of money. So, GB, think we’ll sign Tex? If not, why not? Glass can afford it, right?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 12:52 PM EST up reply actions  

So your snotty sarcasm is ok, but mine isn't?

Don’t throw around snotty sarcasm if you don’t want it back. Call me a douche again, and you’ll ride the pine, kid.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 12:54 PM EST up reply actions  

i didnt call you a douche

I said you’re turning into one.

If you are going to threaten to ban me, at least threaten to ban me when using my words in context.

Are you going to ban everyone that disagrees with you? It would be a pretty small site

by GoBabies!! on Dec 11, 2008 12:57 PM EST up reply actions  

i didnt call you a douche
I said you’re turning into one.

A distinction without a meaningful difference that I don’t want to argue about.

Listen kid, this site has rules. One rule is that we can certainly argue but we don’t act like immature kids and throw around insults like douche, fuckwad and similar bullshit. There’s a line. It’s a pretty clear line. You can disagree with me without calling me a douche or a shithead or anything like that, ok? I’ve been here for quite a while and I don’t ban people I disagree with. So just follow the rules and don’t whine about it.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 1:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Good lord

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 1:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Ladies calm down!

NYRoyal, I think you’re overreacting, and GoBabies, I think you should probably lay off NYRoyal for awhile.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 1:06 PM EST up reply actions  

dude.. people go around throwing out F bombs like no tomorrow...

and you’re mad cuase you got called a douche? Give me a break.

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Dec 11, 2008 1:46 PM EST up reply actions  

We try to avoid having things devolve into

Fuck you asshole! You’re a douche bag! Cram it, shithead.

that is against the rules for obvious reasons. When a blog is full of that kind of discussion, the discourse turns to pure shit. The problem isn’t coarse language. The problem is turning things into vulgar personal insults.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 1:48 PM EST up reply actions  

You're right.

We should totally put up with personal insults because “people throw around F bombs like no tomorrow.” :P

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 12, 2008 9:55 AM EST up reply actions  

it's the new "awesome dude"

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Dec 12, 2008 1:11 PM EST up reply actions  

thats like

missing out on Laetitia Casta because you went with some average chick from your H.S.

</typical blogger guy aping Simmons>

by Freneau on Dec 11, 2008 12:52 PM EST up reply actions  

dayton needs to start calling the yankees

they look to be in insane win now mode

then again, i don’t know if they have any prospects left

by Freneau on Dec 11, 2008 12:51 PM EST reply actions  

I am wondering

If they add all these starting pitchers, what happens to Joba, IDK and Phil Hughes?

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 12:54 PM EST up reply actions  

I am in bizarro world

With NYRoyal’s over the top irrational negativity today.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 12:55 PM EST reply actions  

Compare the following two lists

Jacobs
Crisp
Farnsworth
H. Ramirez
($15.9M)

or

R. Ramirez
Nunez
Furcal or Bradley or Dunn
(for probably less than $15.9M)

Which is better? Do you think the difference between the Royals with group A vs. group B is insignificant? There is reason to be pissed off.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 1:03 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I don't like the deals

But I don’t think they are franchise crippling stuff either.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 1:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Not franchise crippling

But franchise hurting. And when you had the opportunity to significantly help the team, and instead you just putter around a bit with that money to do very little, that really sucks. This team needs to build towards contention, not just tread water.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 1:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes

That really hurts. But yes.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 1:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Personally, I’m ok with the Crisp move and would rather it not be lumped in with the others since I think it’s ok, particularly if we flip him at the deadline or he helps us get to .500. But Jacobs still doesn’t really make sense, the Ho-Ram deal was too much, and the Farnsworth move was a disaster.

The term opportunity cost really sums this up well. If you had said we’d be spending almost $20M this offseason, we’d have all been thrilled. But then to see how it was spent… oof. It’s even more disappointing because the market is down and we seem to be bucking that trend. This is a year when you could load up with some really nice Tier B free agents for about 2/3rds what they cost last year. Sure, CC and Tex will get theirs but compare K-Rod with recent closer contracts, numbers being thrown around for Dunn and Burrell vs what that money would have gotten you in the last couple of years (Guillen). It’s just frustrating.

by sterlingice on Dec 11, 2008 1:19 PM EST up reply actions  

That was the word I was looking for

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 1:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Doesn't that mean you think these deals suck?

Or did you have a positive opinion of Baird?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 1:15 PM EST up reply actions  

List B is better now but

how does that list look if Furcal/Bradley/Dunns bodies all go to shit which definitely could happen in all instances. Jacobs/Crisp/HRam are gone after ’09 unless they perform Farnsworth is the only Big Mistake and its only a 2 year deal.

It takes 46 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip 'em the bird.

by kcscoliny on Dec 11, 2008 1:06 PM EST up reply actions  

The Royals need to take on some risk in order to contend

And you have no idea if Jacobs/Crisp/HRam will be gone after ‘09. That’s a lot of blind faith. We once thought HRam would be gone after 08. I bet Jacobs will be back in 09, and Crisp is a maybe. HRam will depend on his 2008 performance. If he’s mediocre or better, he’ll be back.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 1:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Weren't you the guy saying that this team shouldn't worry about contending til '10/11

Jacobs returns if Billy/Kila/Shealy don’t prove they are everyday players which if that is the case and he returns it means the other guys couldn’t hack it. HRam = who cares 1.8 M for 1 year. Crisp only returns if KC trades DDJ or he proves to be a solid solid player. I doubt KC pays 8M for him next year unless he has a very good year especially if DDJ is still on the team.

The biggest concern I have with this team is Hillman. Will he continue to love veterans too much and play Jacobs (vs lefties) too much over Billy? Will he continue to love 1b defense too much and play Teahen there everyday (ala Gload) ? Will he not use the lefties in the pen properly and will he continue to use Soria too little (not multiple innings). Will Kila rot in Omaha too long(ala Aviles)? Trey Hillman must get better for this team long term.

It takes 46 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip 'em the bird.

by kcscoliny on Dec 11, 2008 1:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Weren’t you the guy saying that this team shouldn’t worry about contending til ’10/11

I said that the Royals wouldn’t contend before that. I’m also in favor of adding a big piece every year so that we can be ready when we get there (like Meche…Guillen was supposed to be that but didn’t work out…Furcal would help).

I doubt KC pays 8M for him next year unless he has a very good year especially if DDJ is still on the team.

If Moore will go 2/9 on crap like Farnsworth, then it would follow that he’d pay 1/8 on an average player like Crisp.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 1:29 PM EST up reply actions  

maybe but still not crippling

plus they think Robinson will probably be ready by the end of 2010 (which I don’t see)

The only thing I would be worried about right now is Furcal at 4/44. That is too long and too much IMO and the sort of thing that could hurt this organization longterm. I think you are right KC needs to get involved in the FA market every year but I would be more interested in a healthy guy like O-Dog or overpaying Greinke.

It takes 46 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip 'em the bird.

by kcscoliny on Dec 11, 2008 1:37 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t think they think Robinson will be ready by then. Certainly not ready to be a good, contributing starter. And even when a FO is high on a prospect, they know there is a good chance that prospect won’t make it.

I would be more interested in a healthy guy like O-Dog

O-dog has significant health concerns and the royals would lose a second round pick if they sign him.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

His injuries aren’t longterm ones like Furcal and the loss of a second rounder isn’t as significant with the Grudz sandwich pick. Plus I don’t think he gets as much $ as Furcal because the upside isn’t as large and he is a 2b.

It takes 46 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip 'em the bird.

by kcscoliny on Dec 11, 2008 1:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe

From what I’ve read, the injuries are not insignificant. And losing a second round pick is losing a second round pick, whether you’ve got a sandwich pick or not. That adds to O-dog’s cost. And the speculation I’ve read is that O-dog will get similar money, but who knows.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 1:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Actually, I like

Nunez
Crisp
Furcal or Bradley or Dunn

Go Royals!

by BabyBlues on Dec 11, 2008 4:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Ok

That’s one hell of a lot better than what Moore did.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 4:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Yea Champ

Why don’t you sit a few plays.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 1:04 PM EST up reply actions  

you can stay NYRoyal

it’s just a blog… i enjoy the slight tension

by CollininCalifornia on Dec 11, 2008 1:05 PM EST up reply actions  

I just read the 300 plus comments in order

and laughed on multiple occasions. Wild west shootout. There is a saying about those who fight on the internet, but it is semioffensive so i won’t post it. but I’m sure most of you know what it is.

At least Wally Joyner's not on the team....

by tcon125 on Dec 11, 2008 1:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Farnsworth is an example of a guy

Who because he at one point was a major league caliber pitcher, is still deemed a major league caliber pitcher. He is the anti stuck in the parking lot.

He had a 6+ era in Detroit last season…and that isn’t exactly a cracker jack ballpark.

At least Wally Joyner's not on the team....

by tcon125 on Dec 11, 2008 1:09 PM EST reply actions  

Jose Lugo dealt to Seattle

For cash….to pay for Rafael Furcal I presume.

I already miss Lugo. How will you remember the Jose Lugo Era?

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 1:10 PM EST reply actions  

laughed out loud

big signing coming for the $100K we got for Lugo. I miss him too.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 1:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Speculation

Speculating net.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 1:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Rosenthal : MacDougal's career continues to nosedive
The career of former All-Star closer Mike MacDougal continued to nosedive Thursday.

The Chicago White Sox exposed MacDougal to the major-league portion of the Rule V draft, but no team was willing to pay $50,000 for him. He remains unwanted property of the White Sox.

MacDougal made the American League All-Star team with Kansas City in 2003

Werd.

by focs on Dec 11, 2008 1:10 PM EST reply actions  

MacDougal for 50,000

Or Farnsworth for 4.5 million. We report, You decide, Fair and Balanced.

At least Wally Joyner's not on the team....

by tcon125 on Dec 11, 2008 1:12 PM EST up reply actions  

The team that picked Mac up would still have to pick up his MLB contract

which is in the millions

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 1:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Moore made a good trade back then...

[he said as he looked wistfully out the window, a single tear sliding down his cheek]

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 1:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Meanwhile

Dan Cortes continues to be awesome

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 1:14 PM EST up reply actions  

but is he $4,450,000 worse?

It isn’t hockey. we don’t need an on ice enforcer, as baseball fights are quite rare.

At least Wally Joyner's not on the team....

by tcon125 on Dec 11, 2008 1:15 PM EST reply actions  

mmm, maybe we are paying Farnsworth for his brawlings skills.

Take out the best player on an opposing central team…
4.25 million to take out a 20 million guy, that is good tactics.

Go Royals!

by BabyBlues on Dec 11, 2008 4:45 PM EST up reply actions  

He was making millions a year

wow i thought he was still on his first/second big league deal in the hundreds of K zone.

At least Wally Joyner's not on the team....

by tcon125 on Dec 11, 2008 1:16 PM EST reply actions  

Macdougal would cost

09:$2.65M, 10:$3.75M club option ($0.35M buyout)

plus $50K

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 1:16 PM EST reply actions  

Would have cost

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 1:17 PM EST up reply actions  

I dont give a shit

Don king would have cost 20K he still blows

Werd.

by focs on Dec 11, 2008 1:18 PM EST up reply actions  

oh ok.

sorry for my agressiveness

Werd.

by focs on Dec 11, 2008 1:21 PM EST up reply actions  

FOCS don't be a jerk

He was replying to my comment about the cost of macdougal.

At least Wally Joyner's not on the team....

by tcon125 on Dec 11, 2008 1:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Just a slight miscommunication

all is well

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 1:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Can we have Peavy?

We need Peavy.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 1:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Royals sign P Doug Waechter

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 1:19 PM EST reply actions  

http://www.kansascity.com/news/breaking_news/story/932475.html

 "Based on the opportunities that we had to acquire talent," Moore said, "I think we were able to do what we needed to do. Horacio Ramirez and Doug Waechter are great make-up guys. We think there is still upside for both of those players."

Ramirez, 29, Waechter, 27, and Farnsworth, 32, push next year’s payroll to roughly $75 million _ some $5 million over budget _ but add a left-handed candidate to what is currently an all right-handed rotation while replenishing a bullpen depleted by previous trades.

"Doug Waechter has power to his game," Moore said. "He’s primarily been a starter for his whole career. Last year was his first year in the bullpen and right-handers hit .216 against him. Our scouts feel he has better days ahead of him.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 1:20 PM EST up reply actions  

I love KC Star math

Yesterday they said the payroll was at about $70M (which is correct). Then they add 4.5+1.8+Waechter which gets the payroll to about $77M and they call it $75M.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 1:25 PM EST up reply actions  

LINK?

and id imagine is a minor league contract

Werd.

by focs on Dec 11, 2008 1:20 PM EST up reply actions  

A major league contract?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 1:20 PM EST up reply actions  

You'll love this

The Royals, against all odds, also remain in the hunt for free-agent shortstop Rafael Furcal. That still seems a long shot. Even Moore admits it will require some serious financial kanoodling.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 1:21 PM EST up reply actions  

hehe

he said kanoodle

Werd.

by focs on Dec 11, 2008 1:22 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Keep fighting Dayton

I’ll PayPal him $20. Everybody join in.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 1:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Is kanoodling spanish for

sell some walmart stock to pay for the ballclubs payroll?

At least Wally Joyner's not on the team....

by tcon125 on Dec 11, 2008 1:23 PM EST up reply actions  

$640,000 + incentives

So yea, it sounds guaranteed

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 1:24 PM EST up reply actions  

At least it was cheap

I won’t pan that deal. It is essentially an almost zero risk signing.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 1:26 PM EST up reply actions  

THAT's the contract you give a replacement level reclamation project

note that Marcels projects Waechter fora better ERA and FIP than the Professor

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2008 3:07 PM EST up reply actions  

we aren't

really baning anybody, are we? I just got back from my lunch and saw all this over the top stuff. I also think it’s funny, and hopefully light hearted. I don’t take NYRoyal’s comments at me personally. I always respect his opinions. I don’t agree with most of them today, but that is a lot different than normal. He thinks Jacobs is a turd. I think obscure baseball stats that even Joe Poznanski doesn’t even talk about are turds. Hopefully neither of us is right (Jacobs hits 38 bombs which makes me happy and has an OPS+ of 126 which makes NYRoyal happy).

In the Royals game of life, Neifi Perez is the rake.

by Matty486 on Dec 11, 2008 1:22 PM EST reply actions  

You keep forgetting about the Free

Mac N Seitz memberships for all Royals players.

At least Wally Joyner's not on the team....

by tcon125 on Dec 11, 2008 1:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Nobody has been banned

not to worry. Although none of us should call each other vulgar names. That’s always the rule and we should stick to it today like every other day.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 1:27 PM EST up reply actions  

NYRoyal

what do you put the over/under on Jacobs OPS next season?

In the Royals game of life, Neifi Perez is the rake.

by Matty486 on Dec 11, 2008 1:28 PM EST up reply actions  

.800, but all OPS’s are not created equal. A .400 OBP, .400 SLG is much, much more valuable than a .300 OBP, .500 SLG (and I think Jacobs will be around that). I haven’t settled on a prediction for Jacobs but maybe something like .315/.485 obp/slg

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 1:31 PM EST up reply actions  

care for a wager?

In the Royals game of life, Neifi Perez is the rake.

by Matty486 on Dec 11, 2008 1:32 PM EST up reply actions  

ok

i’ll say he will get over 820

In the Royals game of life, Neifi Perez is the rake.

by Matty486 on Dec 11, 2008 1:34 PM EST up reply actions  

because

not all 800’s are the same, but once we get to a point, you’ve had a good season.

In the Royals game of life, Neifi Perez is the rake.

by Matty486 on Dec 11, 2008 1:34 PM EST up reply actions  

But a .800 OPS for a 1B is below average for the position (or DH)

And a low-OBP .800 OPS takes him even further below average.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 1:36 PM EST up reply actions  

and I say under .810. And if his OPS is .810-.819, it’s push. How about that?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 1:35 PM EST up reply actions  

excellent

what’s the wager. i’ll send you a box of all you favorite KC bbq sauces if I lose

In the Royals game of life, Neifi Perez is the rake.

by Matty486 on Dec 11, 2008 1:36 PM EST up reply actions  

and if i win

I get to coach the Knicks, deal?

In the Royals game of life, Neifi Perez is the rake.

by Matty486 on Dec 11, 2008 1:37 PM EST up reply actions  

really though

What’s good there? I’ve never been.

In the Royals game of life, Neifi Perez is the rake.

by Matty486 on Dec 11, 2008 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

NYC isn't known for its great food products

Let’s make this something less costly and more interesting. We need to get creative.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 1:40 PM EST up reply actions  

sounds good

I’ll do some research

In the Royals game of life, Neifi Perez is the rake.

by Matty486 on Dec 11, 2008 1:41 PM EST up reply actions  

NYR I would put an AB provision in there just in case

Hillman wises up and plays Jacobs against RHP only.

It takes 46 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip 'em the bird.

by kcscoliny on Dec 11, 2008 1:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't need or want it

But you do make a good point. I’ll roll the dice.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 1:49 PM EST up reply actions  

and by .400 obp being much more valuable he means about 2-3%.

No, not even close. Ten points of SLG are the value equivalent of 18 points of OBP. I can link you to some sources if you’d like to read up on it.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 5:10 PM EST up reply actions  

for the record

Even the super-optimistic James projections have Jacobs as about a +9 hitter (.360 wOBA; .269/.325/.515; I had to prorate the full-season number). This means that even if he was an average defensive first baseman (and as everyone should know by now, he’s a historically bad first basemen 11 runs on bUZR this year in limited playing tim), on this most optimistic projection, he’s still a below average 1B, since the position adjustment is -12.5 or so. Assuming he adapts seemlessly to DH, the penalty is -17.5 - so he’s about 8 runs short of average.

And James is projecting a career year…

How about Marcels, which has its limits, is more conservative and goes more strictly off recent performance (and works pretty well for players with 3+ years in the majors; I actually think it does better than James)? Marcels projects a league wOBA of .332. They have Jacobs at .256/.314//.471 next season…. good for a .332 wOBA. That’s right, the guy who’s best position is a DH projects as a league average hitter. You know who on the Royals was just above league average this year?

I won’t say, but here’s a totally unrelated question — how would you feel about having resigning Grudz as a DH?

ZiPS already published a projection for Jacobs. I don’ t have ZiPS projected league average, but I’ll use .338 as a midpoint guidline as I have earlier. Zips has Jacobs as a .262/.313/.485 hitter, or +2.4 runs over a full season.

You can decide from yourself whether or not that’s good enough for a guy making more than $3M and who needs fielding lessons from Travis Hafner.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2008 7:48 PM EST up reply actions  

stupid cross out

"11 runs on bUZR this year in limited playing tim), on this most optimistic projection, he’s still a below average 1B, since the position adjustment is -12.5 or so. Assuming he adapts seemlessly to DH, the penalty is -17.5 "

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2008 7:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Uh, no, then OPS would never have been used as a production indicator, would have been thrown out almost immediately.

Already did a mathematical proof on this point in a previous post that a high slug could be more valuable then a high obp depending on what sort of hits contributed to it. Understand that walks are not undervalued in OPS, they are over-valued as it related to runs scored. What is undervalued are singles. Its only 10 to 18 if you are comparing all homerun slug to all singles obp, that is not going to happen, the standard error is only 2-3. Jacobs OPS is deflated because he doesn’t get walks, inflated because he hits homeruns, and so most of that error is vapor. 2-3 is fair for Jacobs OPS – wOBA.

Go Royals!

by BabyBlues on Dec 11, 2008 9:54 PM EST up reply actions  

You should read some of the voluminous research that has been done on this

Trying to out-think years of sabermetric research in a few blog posts doesn’t really work out well. Do you think that all of that research which has compared the run value of OBP and SLG have just been way off and that you figured it out? Come on, really?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 9:59 PM EST up reply actions  

just go to fangraphs or stats corner, BabyBlues

if you can outproof Tango or MGL in a way that is clear to me, I’ll buy it.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2008 10:46 PM EST up reply actions  

+3

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 10:49 PM EST up reply actions  

OBP is a really bad indicator of runs produced.

SLG is even worse, OPS just happens to work because it mostly cancels out the errors between the two given a normal distribution of hits and walks. woba is much better at predicting runs scored because it bases hits and walks and so forth based historically on what those hits generally produce. Woba is the right methodology, OPS is like putting in values into a spreadsheet until the formula comes out right. If we continued to tweak SLG for the errors that are unaccounted for such as walks and singles being counted the same or Homeruns being 7% higher then they should be when measured against a walk, OPS could be made to zero in on equivalent Woba values dispite having a flawed methodology. I thought the proof was awfully straight forward and easy to understand?

Go Royals!

by BabyBlues on Dec 12, 2008 1:08 AM EST up reply actions  

what are we even arguing about?

I think wOBA is the best. I put the three-slash lines in there for people who weren’t used to it. Sorry if I misunderstood you or if I wasn’t clear. wOBA shows exactly how “valuable” Jacobs hitting is in a way that his .800+ OPS in 2008 can’t.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 12, 2008 1:12 AM EST up reply actions  

But you're forgetting his SLG!!!!!!!!!!!!!111

Which is only 2-3% less valuable than his OBP. Where did I get that number? Out of the clear blue sky. So it must be right.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 12, 2008 2:08 AM EST up reply actions  

Ugghh, I never said OBP and SLG were only 2-3% apart.

I was saying OPS and wOBA would be about 2-3% apart. Your saying that OBP and SLG being 10-18 points apart made it sound like OPS was in not even in the ballpark, yet it is. When they are weighted equally like they are in OPS then half the error goes away and it is actually 10-14 points. the average error is basically half of that, or 2 points (20). the percentage of difference between OBP and SLUG is usually pretty small compared to the base of SLG and OBP, so most of that 20 difference also dissapears. You get left with about a 2-3% difference. (Some players could have higher errorfor example walk/homerun sluggers would be 3-4% overvalued) If you would fix SLG to have singles and walks have a higher value relative to doubles, triples, and homeruns, then OPS would start approximating wOBA. Still the wrong methodology though.

Go Royals!

by BabyBlues on Dec 12, 2008 12:58 PM EST up reply actions  

If you are interested in statistical baseball analysis

…I would suggest you read some about it. There are very good books and websites on the subject. That would be better than trying to re-invent the wheel yourself, not quite understanding all of the principles of the wheel, and then doing it wrong by making it square-shaped.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 12, 2008 1:18 PM EST up reply actions  

So you like wOBA?

Then you must (finally) agree that the relative value of OBP to SLG is 1.8 to 1. Because part of the computation of wOBA is that kind of weighting of OBP and SLG. Glad you are on board.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 12, 2008 2:07 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes, I like wOBA, its a great way to compare players.

It is much better then OPS. The only problem with it is that we are used to seeing OPS values, so its like switching from English system to the metric system in knowing what is significant difference and so forth, witch is way wOBA+ is most likely what we should be posting about. I do sort of struggle with how much difference in wOBA means as far as run production. Blah number of points = blah number of runs if you have blah number of at bats and so forth, while OPS seems mroe intuitive. Therefore fixing OPS to be more in line with wOBA may not be a bad thing even though it won’t be as good as wOBA is.

Go Royals!

by BabyBlues on Dec 12, 2008 1:03 PM EST up reply actions  

What worries me the most...

…about the extra spending on Farns, HoRam, and Waechter, is that perhaps Moore has already conceded trying to re-sign Greinke this offseason and is using those clams to concoct a bullpen.

by DarthYoshi on Dec 11, 2008 1:24 PM EST reply actions  

You'll have to elaborate

I am failing to see how signing crappy pitchers to expensive deals makes it more likely Greinke signs a long-term deal.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 1:25 PM EST up reply actions  

I am saying it makes it less likely

That is, that Moore has already determined that he can’t re-sign Greinke, so the money that would be used to re-sign him is instead being used to sign players like the Professor.

by DarthYoshi on Dec 11, 2008 1:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Not really

Zacks contract would probably be more backloaded wouldn’t it?

It takes 46 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip 'em the bird.

by kcscoliny on Dec 11, 2008 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Probably

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 1:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Could be

But a really half assed way to show it. This is not an impressive group of players by any measure.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 1:51 PM EST up reply actions  

do we flip HoRam at the dealine again for another paulie?

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Dec 11, 2008 1:51 PM EST up reply actions  

No, I think Moore really likes him

If he pitches ok, he’ll probably extend him.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 1:53 PM EST up reply actions  

so our rotation looks like this...

Meche
Grienke
Hochevar
Davies
HoRam/Bannister/Waechter/?

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Dec 11, 2008 2:03 PM EST up reply actions  

I think he said Waechter would be used as a reliever

And I bet Bannister is the #4 and Davies is competing with Ramirez for #5.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 2:12 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't know about that

Davies pitched better than Hochevar or Banny last year. I think he deserves to battle Hoch for #3.

by AxDxMx on Dec 11, 2008 3:59 PM EST up reply actions  

It will probably be like this

Moore and Hillman will have a good idea going into ST who the starting 5 will be. But Davies, Bannister and Ramirez will, to some degree, compete for the final 2 spots in the rotation. I think Davis and Bannister will have the edge and Ramirez will only make it if he looks spectacular or of course if someone gets injured.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 4:02 PM EST up reply actions  

It's not, but it's probably good enough for a couple win jump right now*

Which seems to be the current aim

 * Won’t do much for the long term though

by Top Ramen on Dec 11, 2008 1:56 PM EST up reply actions  

I creates a winning culture.

If we can raise expectations within the fan base AND clubhouse, we can sign more big FA’s and get better. If we can teach the young kids how to win… then it’ll be time when the youngsters get here.

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Dec 11, 2008 2:04 PM EST up reply actions  

You know what's even better t han a winning culture?

wins

Farns and H-rRam together won’t add any.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2008 3:11 PM EST up reply actions  

an exaggeration

but not by much. Not by $6M/yr

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2008 3:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Greinke is long gone, IMO

The time to resign Greinke was at the beginning of last season. He has now a hot commodity and probably won’t resign here regardless of money. Why we didn’t sign him to a longer deal, but lower yearly salary, ala Mr. Longoria is beyond me.

I see maybe 5% chance of keeping him.

At least Wally Joyner's not on the team....

by tcon125 on Dec 11, 2008 1:27 PM EST reply actions  

GRIENKE DOES NOT WANT TO RESIGN

THE ROYALS MADE SOME OFFERS.

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Dec 11, 2008 2:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Waechter

looks like he was fairly effective in relief last year, just keep him from facing too many LH batters.

by DarthYoshi on Dec 11, 2008 1:32 PM EST up reply actions  

ya

i remember him mowing down the royals when we faced it.. it pissed me right off

Werd.

by focs on Dec 11, 2008 1:33 PM EST up reply actions  

I can't pronounce his name or spell it

He needs a nickname. I’m going to call him “nobody”

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 1:33 PM EST up reply actions  

It's Probably German

And originally spelled “Wachter” with an umlaut over the “a”. These pronunciations almost always get anglicized or made improperly Teutonic. It should be more like “Waykter”, but when you hear a real German say it it’s a sound we don’t use at all in English.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 4:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Oops; It's Probably

More like “Wayshter”.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 4:05 PM EST up reply actions  

How about "not Farns"

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2008 3:12 PM EST up reply actions  

waechter

If we signed waechter (which I kinda like), why did we also sign Farns? That really doesn’t make any sense. And HoRam? Gobble gone, Peralta gone,

In the Royals game of life, Neifi Perez is the rake.

by Matty486 on Dec 11, 2008 1:33 PM EST reply actions  

lots of nontenders, I guess

And maybe Rosa back in AAA, which would be another really, truly stupid move.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 1:34 PM EST up reply actions  

i want rosa to be a starter one day

not groom him as a reliever..

Werd.

by focs on Dec 11, 2008 1:35 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

there is nothing wrong with starting Rosa in the 'pen

with the intent of making him a starter someday. Indeed, I hope that is what happens.

by DarthYoshi on Dec 11, 2008 1:36 PM EST up reply actions  

if banny pulls this dogshit again this year

i wouldnt mind looking at rosa starting at some point

Werd.

by focs on Dec 11, 2008 1:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd rather he not waste away in Omaha while the Royals need a good bullpen

And he has durability issues which may prevent him from ever having a healthy full season as a starter. He could spot start and be a reliever for the Royals in 2009. Or waste him in Omaha.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 1:37 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree

but I would have Rosa spot start as little as possible, not only to limit his innings, but also because a year ago, he was getting finished with his first half season in AA and we are already talking about him being a full time MLBer. No need to overwhelm him with innings.

by DarthYoshi on Dec 11, 2008 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree

When Waechter is on, he has a wicked splitter and can pitch with some “power.” He and Farns seem slightly redundant (though Farnsworth relies on a four-seamer instea0, and I’d much rather have Waechter.

by DarthYoshi on Dec 11, 2008 1:35 PM EST up reply actions  

oddly

Rosa + Waechter look like they’d be a better setup combo than Ho-Ram and the Professor

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2008 3:13 PM EST up reply actions  

But Farnsworth will get his 60 ip regardless (min)

woohoo!

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 3:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Gotta sink those costs fasts to get a good return!

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2008 3:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Well - this could also be a Dotel situation

Pick up a questionable FA and watch him have a great 1st half and trade him off.

by labbadabba on Dec 11, 2008 1:38 PM EST reply actions  

We said that about Guillen too

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 1:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I like Clement a lot

I wonder if he could be converted to a reliever and avoid some injury issues that way?

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 1:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Peter Gammons

Was asked who he thought Furcal would sign with…and he said KC.

So it probably means he’s signing with Oakland.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 1:40 PM EST reply actions  

Why I'm pissed off

1. Some bad short-term moves

2. (this is the biggy) These poor moves make me think that Dayton Moore isn’t a good enough manager to eventually get the Royals over the hump. Going from .500 to the playoffs is a big jump. Those are a hard 7+ wins to get. I don’t think Moore is good at evaluating position players. I think he’s pretty poor at it. And I don’t think he’s particularly good at determining a player’s market value. A small market team needs a good GM who can identify good pitchers and position players and who can efficiently utilize scarce resources.

I don’t think Moore is good enough to get us over the top.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 1:42 PM EST reply actions  

on the other hand

It is still EARLY. When the point comes that we can’t resign guys because of wasted money, then I’ll be pissed. Until then, hopefully there’s a bigger plan that we don’t know about. Something about Wal Mart stock probably.

In the Royals game of life, Neifi Perez is the rake.

by Matty486 on Dec 11, 2008 1:45 PM EST up reply actions  

In order to be a GM who can get a small market team over the top

….you have to be really good at spotting talent that others haven’t spotted. Recognizing who is undervalued (pitchers and pos players). And then using your money wisely and not overpaying. Moore has some weaknesses in all of the above (except for finding pitchers).

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 1:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Minnesota did that for quite a while before their most recent GM change. TB is doing that. Oakland has done that for years. Boston is doing that with a hell of a lot more money. The Indians have usually done that, but this offseason looks a little different for them. That’s a short list off the top of my head.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 2:14 PM EST up reply actions  

it's way too early

but Seattle is off to a good start

Ricciardi is a bordline case — I wonder how he’d do in a different division. He makes some bad moves, but he also seems to have a knack for finding good, undervalued, below-average-but-above replacment cheap guys like Scutaro and Inglett

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2008 3:15 PM EST up reply actions  

He plays the game the right way

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 1:44 PM EST up reply actions  

wow

I actually think Punto would be a good utiility man, but $4.25/per is ridiculous

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2008 3:16 PM EST up reply actions  

This day has been really unimpressive for the Royals

I have to agree with NYRoyal for the most part. I never liked Farns. I really hate 2/9.5M. We keep Olivo for no real reason, Jacobs—really? Crisp I’m okay with, though I never loved it. Give me Butler, Gordon, Rosa. Even if they underwhelm, they aren’t expensive.

by BrRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 1:50 PM EST reply actions  

Where are our Midwestern manners?

I, for one, would like to welcome Mr. Farnsworth and his lovely family.

by andrewmiller on Dec 11, 2008 1:53 PM EST reply actions  

he has a hot wife. for what its worth

i wonder if his science lab is upstairs or in the basement

Werd.

by focs on Dec 11, 2008 1:55 PM EST up reply actions  

I hope the family does not read this blog

but those smiles all look very forced. “Can we please look like a happy family for five seconds for this PR shot!?!?”

www.rockchalktalk.com for pretty good KU baseball coverage

by James Quinn on Dec 11, 2008 2:04 PM EST up reply actions  

The overflow thread is flowing

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 11, 2008 1:56 PM EST reply actions  

Waechter

Had signed to go to the University of South Florida and play quarterback for the Bulls.

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Dec 11, 2008 2:08 PM EST reply actions  

way too long

just want to get rid of the “new”

Founder of the Johnny Giavotella fan club.

by doublestix on Dec 11, 2008 2:54 PM EST reply actions  

I can't believe I read all that

I just couldn’t turn away from the drama. Let’s pitch this to NBC, It’ll be called “RoyalsReview”.

by I need more Esteban on Dec 11, 2008 3:46 PM EST reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog about Kansas City Royals.

Managers

Cimg0036_small Freneau

Editors

Dayton_small Jeff Zimmerman

Authors

Royalsretro_small RoyalsRetro

Headshot_small Old Man Duggan