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Jairo! Ho-Ram! Former Teahen-trade-rumor-partner F-Gut being traded to our hated rivals!

I can't keep up.

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This horrible Farnsworth contract report bullshit is ruining my Rule 5 Draft excitement

Even a plate of Veal Jersey won’t make me happy now.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 9:02 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's ok.

At least we are on the FA market now and not looking for Rule 5 STARTING OFers.

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Dec 11, 2008 9:08 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

But we need someone to replace RamRam! :P

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 9:18 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Go to hell

YOU still get to enjoy RamRam at $400,000. We have a guy that only scares someone in a basebrawl, and I’m pretty sure Teahen was joking about that anyway.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 9:27 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I really am going to enjoy RamRam :)

and hey….at least Professor Farnsworth is entertaining!

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 9:39 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You might want to check the projections on RamRam

They don’t expect a repeat performance in 2009.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 9:41 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I am aware that they're not as rosy

as Ramirez’s 2008. Reliever projections—most often correctly—don’t match the previous year. Fluky nature of relief pitching and all that. I still expect that Ramirez will be a plus in the pen and give the Sox a bit of a break from the Delcarmen Rollercoaster.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 9:44 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

RamRam is at least above average

And above average is what the projections show for him so far. We’ll see what PECOTA, ZiPS and CHONE have to say.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 9:46 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yep

Delcarmen’s breaking ball is a doozy, but his fastball location is suspect enough that it’s tough to imagine Ramirez not playing the set-up role better.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 9:50 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I've said it before, I'll say it again

tRA-based pitching runs above average (unleveraged) had RamRam as the third best reliever in the AL, right behind 2) Papelbon and 1) The Freaking Amazing, Even If You Hate the Yanks, Mariano Rivera.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 10:42 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Unleveraged, marcels has ramram at about .5 WAR

with setup man leverage, that’s ~ .75 war

This year, though, he was almost 2 WAR w/ leverage. I haven’t figured it with leverage, but his tRA*outs above average was almost as good in 2006. 2007 is part of his history, too, of course, but I don’t think this year was just a fluke (the BABIP numbers certainly don’t suggest it).

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 10:27 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah, we coulda had Fulchino do that for peanuts

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 9:40 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Bring Back Quinn

And we could have a MMA franchise (that of course includes Olivo). Hoagie could be the colorful manager.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 10:02 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If Moore acts fast, he can have Quinn for 3/15

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 10:03 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You've not seen nothing like the Mighty Quinn

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 10:30 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

just think of the awesome WWE matches we could have!

Get the steel cage match, chairs, etc……Vince McMahon would be proud!

by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Dec 11, 2008 11:32 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

we could bring back Mike Sweeney for throwback day

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Dec 11, 2008 2:17 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yankees and Brewers trade Mike Cameron for Melky Cabrera

Brewers save money and get crap. Yankees spend money and get a good player.

Economic disparity really isn’t a problem anymore is it?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 9:06 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

disagree.

Melky is a STD!

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Dec 11, 2008 9:09 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

STD = stud in HS lingo

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Dec 11, 2008 9:09 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

he's a clubhouse STD

not quite as bad, but still a real pain

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 1:53 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't want to think about how an STD would be distributed around a clubhouse

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Dec 11, 2008 2:18 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

hives!

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 2:36 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Those are fake

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 2:39 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

did he use a Sharpie?

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Dec 11, 2008 4:57 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

At least

he works hard at being a lazy faker

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 5:08 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

A good player in decline

Not sure the Yankees won’t regret this one.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 9:10 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

they will.

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Dec 11, 2008 9:11 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Of course,

I’m not sure that they’ll be burned on it either. It’s not like people think very highly of “Got Melky?” at this point.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 9:14 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Cameron should be much, much better than Melky

I think every projection is going to have Cameron doing much better than Cabrera. They certainly should.

And if you’re a super rich team, the fact that he costs more money is irrelevant.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 9:18 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm sure

But at this point, Cameron’s collapse/attrition rates should be high as well. I wouldn’t call him a plus, necessarily.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 9:23 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

he's getting paid like an average player

I think he’ll come close to that.

If this moves Swisher to right, that’s good. Of course, now they need at 1B.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 9:28 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What else is new

Good luck in the Teixeira sweepstakes, Yanks. The NATS have apparently made an 8-year, 20 per offer.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 9:39 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yankees are focused on Burnett

Something like 5/80 offer on the table.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 9:40 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Saw that, yeah.

I wonder if anyone’s quite crazy enough to match.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 9:41 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Don't Forget The

Limos for the lady.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 10:04 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yep yep

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 10:09 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Swisher is expected to play 1B

Last I read anyway

Mike Jacobs you're 2009 AL MVP

by eboston on Dec 11, 2008 9:48 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

theone position at which he wouldn't be an above average player

this remind me soooo much of the time they passed on Beltran

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 10:28 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Cameron was above average offensively and defensively last year...

and I believe he only has one year left on his contract. Not sure they’ll regret this one too much.

by djk royal on Dec 11, 2008 10:05 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If he collapses,

then they might. Cameron’s been around for a long time at this point.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 10:09 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

For a 36-year-old playing a premium defensive position?

I don’t think “very unlikely” is the way I’d put it, even if I think Cameron will probably be “fine.” Maybe Cameron will continue to perform reasonably well, but he’s definitely past he peak and he’s never been a great contact hitter to begin with. A slight decline in bat speed could totally nerf his offensive value.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 10:25 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And no more PEDs!!!!

We saw what that did to Josie.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 10:26 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oh yes,

that too. Cameron was suspended for violating the PED policy, which you might’ve missed since no one’s really keen to label “nice guys” as PED Villains.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 10:27 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

screw nice

I just wish Hoagie had been half as good as Cameron on the field

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 10:29 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Don't worry!

Kahrl really likes the Royal off-season so far. We’re golden.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 10:30 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

you're kidding, right?

I sure am glad that dumb Billly Beane locked up Mark Ellis for a below-average contract so that the Royals could focus on trying to get Furcal at 4/44!

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 10:34 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not kidding about Kahrl's take

on the Royals’ off-season, actually.

Kidding, of course, in telling you not to worry. Worry!

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 10:37 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

it didn't have to be this way

Zduioadfanik, or whatever the Mariner’s new guy’s name is, is a lot like more — highly respected player development guy. Scouting guy. Not a stats guy. He’s even older than Moore. Kinda fat in a fun way, too.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 10:44 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

LINK, not like

Being up all night is not good for my brain.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 9:21 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We chatted about it a bit

Indians got hosed.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 9:22 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hosed?

While a lot of warm bodies moved out of town, I’m not sure “hosed” is the word I’d choose. Certainly they didn’t get the best of it though.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 9:25 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Gutierrez is a plus CFer

And they got back an ok prospect and a below average reliever for him.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 9:29 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

True

which makes for kind of a bad fit for a team with Grady Sizemore on it. Though I get your point below—the Indians should’ve got better value in this trade—I think this must signal that they’re planning on another move to to improve production at the other corner outfield slot.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 9:41 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

it's more like the Mariners now seem like the hot shit front office

They got the underrated Endy Chavez as a 4th OF, then Endy, Jr. with a better bat in Fgut, then a bunch of other guys like Heilman.

It’s WAAAAY too early, but with all due respect to doublestix opinion of Valbunea, Zdurnkcksdf may already have passed DMGM on the “F-ing A” transaction monitor.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 9:30 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

In short, the Mariners recognize the value of Gutierrez's defense

(and that is something that is more on the forefront of sabermetric thought)…while the Indians clearly do not.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 9:32 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yeah

although the Indians may prefer Choo in RF and Sizemore in CF. Not sure what their plan is in left, though.

I think Gutz is the onlly real “guy” they gave up, right? If Valbuena is as good as doublestix says, then this makes a bit more sense for them.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 9:33 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't necessarily have a problem with the trading Gutierrez

But if you do trade him, you have to get his true value back in return and they didn’t.

In the other thread, I wrote about Valbuena. I don’t know his tools, but his minor league stats aren’t impressive. First, he’s a second baseman, not a SS or similar premium position. Second, he doesn’t hit very well. He’d have to be one hell of a defensive SS to be an impressive prospect. Doublestix called him one of the most underrated prospects in baseball. I think there’s a reason he’s not rated very highly and why a smart front office got rid of him.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 9:37 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yea, I don't know much about Valbuena

I just trust doublestix on the minor leaguers ‘cause I don’t follow them that close, especially other teams. But I see your point.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 10:45 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

stopgap

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 15, 2008 9:55 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think there is a bit of overreaction going on

I will agree that I think the Farnsworth signing, as reported, is too much to pay. Personally, I would rather try out Rosa.

However, Moore to this point has done well with putting together his bullpens. If this is what it took to get Farnsworth, and DM thinks he’s THE guy, then let’s give Farnsworth a chance to fail before we dump all over it.

One of the problems that the Royals had under Allard Baird was a half-ass approach to building a roster. Too many marginal “name” guys that really weren’t worth much. Sure, the Guillen signing has turned out to not be great (and maybe DM should have seen it coming) but nobody is going to bat 1.000.

I’m not trying to paper over the issue, I feel like we’ve got some $$$ invested in the bullpen that we could have used to sign Furcal, but let’s inject a little moderation with respect to how these moves are portrayed. If DM does something genuinely stupid, like Greinke/Francoeur straight up, then we can revisit. But to expend our vitriol on the signings to date I think is jumping the gun a bit.

I hereby resign from this post.

by Home Run Tony Cogan on Dec 11, 2008 9:21 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

However, Moore to this point has done well with putting together his bullpens. If this is what it took to get Farnsworth, and DM thinks he’s THE guy, then let’s give Farnsworth a chance to fail before we dump all over it.

I think this contract is more than twice Farnsworth’s market value. Moore gets some benefit of the doubt on relievers, but not this much. To take a pitcher with a poor recent track record and give him this size of contract is a big mistake, period. And a waste of scarce resources.

One of the problems that the Royals had under Allard Baird was a half-ass approach to building a roster.

One of the big problems the Royals had under Allard Baird was spending too much money on sub-mediocre veteran FA’s (Elarton, Redman, Sanders). This contract is very much like theirs. Farnsworth is exactly the kind of marginal “name” guy that Allard picked up and gave too much money to.

This is genuinely stupid. It doesn’t have the impact of a Dye trade, a Guillen signing or a Greinke-Francoeur trade, but that doesn’t man it isn’t very, very stupid. And it also is one of the deals keeping the Royals from getting an impact player like Furcal. That’s pretty damend genuinely stupid.

Listen, I am almost always moderate about Moore. I have given him a lot of benefit of the doubt. I’m not quick to jump on him. I am always very fair to Moore. But in all fairness and honesty, if they really signed Farnsworth to a 2/9.25 contract, this was breathtakingly stupid and incompetent. And I don’t throw those words at Moore lightly.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 9:28 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No, I don't overreact much

and that is part of the point

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 9:49 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It really is

Pick up three failed relievers for nothing, throw them in a competition for a bullpen spot, and you won’t have paid anywhere near HALF of Farnsworth’s contract, and the worst case scenario is that you get equal performance to what he did last year.

by Bornin85 on Dec 11, 2008 9:51 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Is that really an overreaction?

I mean, look at Farnsworth’s numbers the last few years. Tell me how that’s worth a multi-year deal at 4.75 per.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 9:52 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He has good stuff.

Moore loves stuff and evaluates that more than peformance (see Tomko).

by djk royal on Dec 11, 2008 9:55 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Farnsworth's good stuff wasn't worth 2/$9.25M

He could have had him for less. And if he couldn’t, then he shouldn’t have wasted the money. The mere fact that he has a 95 mph fastball doesn’t mean that any amount of money thrown at him is justified.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 9:56 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And that didn't turn out very well.

You’re not making much of a counterargument here….are you agreeing with us that it’s a mistake?

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 10:08 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think he overpaid by a couple of million...

but “breathtakingly stupid” is a bit over the top. 2/7 sounds about right to me. Moore evaluates players as a scout not so much on statistics so I don’t see why it’s so surprising Moore loves this guy. I do find it surprising that people legitimately thought Farnsworth’s market value was $1 million or $1.5 million. That’s crazy to me.

by djk royal on Dec 11, 2008 10:14 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm not sure why

it’s crazy to suggest that a homer-prone “set-up man” is worth very little. Farnsworth can’t be trusted in high leverage situations since he gives up the gopherball so often. Is a hard throwing glorified mop-up man only being worth 1 million unreasonable? Seems on target to me. At this stage in Farnsworth’s career, there’s not much reason to expect to improve.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 10:23 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

When that homer prone set up man...

moves to a homerun friendly park and strikes out over a batter an inning and has good stuff then maybe it is a little crazy.

by djk royal on Dec 11, 2008 10:25 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Are we talking about the same guy?

Sure, Farnsworth can miss some bats. But there’s a certain level of gopherballitis that completely negates a relief pitcher’s value.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 10:26 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We're talking about market value

What do you think the market value of a 30-something middle reliever coming off of two shitty years? Does every reliever coming off two shitting years get two guaranteed years at more than $4M per?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 10:43 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yankee Stadium is far from homerun friendly....

sure there’s a short porch down the line, but the power alleys are ginormous for righties.

by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Dec 11, 2008 1:30 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's neither here nor there

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 10:28 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes It Is

It’s there.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 10:46 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Objection

completely irrelevant

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 10:44 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Its a shrewd move by Dayton

To make the HoRam signing look brilliant in comparison

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 9:55 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This is breathtakingly stupid, but with a lower impact than those moves

Even moderate sized moves like this one can be breathtakingly stupid and incompetent.

And when you’re trying to clear payroll room to sign an impact player and you do this, well the impact is even more significant.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 9:58 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Do you think

Moore is incompetent? I’m not being combative, I really am asking. I don’t, I think on balance he’s done a pretty good job so far. Maybe a mistake, but not incompetent.

I hereby resign from this post.

by Home Run Tony Cogan on Dec 11, 2008 10:11 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think this move was incompetent

The overall picture is more murky. Overall he’s been good on pitchers and bad on position players.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 10:44 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If Guillen is traded

then we have money for Furcal. 12M – 4.6M = 7.4M

Gullen going was the only way we’d ever get Furcal.

By the way, I’m starting to think that the Royals were putitng out misinformation on how much they were willing to spend to be able to be stealth players in the Furcal sweepstakes. At first, it was “no increase in payroll”. Then it was “we can increase to $70, but we can’t go higher”. And now we’re at around $75? Throw another 10M per year on and let’s go to 85, dump Guillen and were back down to $73.

by AxDxMx on Dec 11, 2008 11:33 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My 2 cents

I do not like the signing much either but I think it can work out in a few different ways. Farnsworth has closed, so it does give the Royals a back-up closer (if they feel they need such a thing). This will also make moving Soria into the rotation an easier proposition to sell should Hillman be thinking about trying this experiment. I’d like to see Soria given a shot in the rotation a la Gobble in 2006.

Also, as long as Farnsworth pitches well at all he is very tradeable after this year. He could be flipped in 2010 pretty easily if the Royals find themselves looking to dump players that July.

www.rockchalktalk.com for pretty good KU baseball coverage

by James Quinn on Dec 11, 2008 1:11 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Its early in the morning

But either the Royals just signed a mediocre relief pitcher to an absurd amount of money, or I’m dreaming and I’m about to show up to school naked.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 9:50 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's COLD outside.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 9:51 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Also really disappointed

All it took to get the best defensive outfielder in baseball was a reliever and a minor league infielder.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 9:52 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Don't worry,

we’ve got Coco now!!!111

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 9:53 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I look forward to a drunken Kyle Farnswoth

beating the living shit out of me and my friends when we jump on his float at the Plaza during “the” parade

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 10:32 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I got your back.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 10:33 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

they didn't publish pitchers (line)

but Marcels has him as a below replacement level player in both ERA and FIP so…. I’m guesstimating something around $0.0. Maybe as high as $300,000. Seriously, that’s what they would say.

I guess my overall thing, djk, would be that Farns would be an okay sign as a Ho-Ram (part I) -esque reclamation project. But reclamation projects are signed to the league minumum or minor league deals. Maybe if Moore (who has done well in the past) likes his stuff, then MAYBE a $1M deal with incentives (I think that’s too much, still)…

I just don’t get this at all. This is a move that in the best case scenario, might barely pay off. Even if you like Moore’s scouting skills, this still doesn’t make sense in terms of payroll management. Russ Springer at 2/5 would have been pretty silly, but would be smart by comparison.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 10:39 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oops

I meant that I didn’t do a spreadsheet for pitcher because of the complexities of projecting playing time, especially for relievers. Also, I’d have to choose between FIP and ERA when projecting value, and I’m not sure what is better for gauging market value, which is what the spreadsheet is “testing”

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 10:50 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Signing Farnsy

Reminds me of entry #7 in this list

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 10:05 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yup

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 10:07 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

RULE 5 DRAFT NOW!

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 10:09 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I was just about to ask about that. What pick do we have?

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Dec 11, 2008 10:20 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I Hope It's

A sandwich pick. I’m hungry.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 10:22 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think #11

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 10:27 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Only Veal, Skelton

or that awesome 7-1 Dutch guy can save us now

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 10:39 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What about his defense?

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 10:27 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He is good at standing on a small hill sometimes.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 10:28 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Maybe If He

Grew a beard and stood facing CF until he pounded the ball in his glove, then turned and stomped to the rubber, flinging the ball angrily in the general direction of the catcher, he could be an effective MLB reliever. We could call him “The Mad Irishman”. That would at least have some entertainment value.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 10:54 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I know this has been covered ad nauseum

But I’m just adding a voice to the “You’ve got to me kidding me” camp on the Farnsworth deal.

We gave him HOW much?

I am not exaggerating when I say this, not one bit: I wouldn’t give Farnsworth a one year, $1 million contract. Wouldn’t do it.

I'm about to change my username to DannyDuffyfan

by jackie ballgame on Dec 11, 2008 10:37 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1

Do we have confirmation?

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 10:40 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1

Holy crap was this ever a bad deal!

I'd rather be watching baseball.

by Sisquatch Kids on Dec 11, 2008 10:45 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No confirmation

Just the radio repeating Phillips report

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 10:49 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm going to wake up now, right

sorry, I just can’t get over that this happened

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 10:46 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Rule 5 starts at 11 am CST, Noon EST

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 10:45 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

As anyone else read this?

from the story on the Royals website about Farnsworth

Farnsworth has produced a 30-48 record with a 4.47 ERA in 109 seasons
,


109 seasons? How old is this guy?

Mike Jacobs you're 2009 AL MVP

by eboston on Dec 11, 2008 10:47 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

222

same age as me.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Dec 11, 2008 9:58 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Christ almighty, the Royals site confirms the 2 years, $9.25M contract

There are no words.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 10:50 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Maybe the plan is to have him room with Gload so that Gload retires, thus freeing up that 2.9

then he gets moved to Hoagie’s suite to see which of them cracks first.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 10:51 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I wonder what grade Dayton Moore deserves as a general manager during his tenure with the Royals

C- maybe. No better than that. That might be generous. This offseason has been a failure so far, and there isn’t money left to do much of anything else.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 10:53 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Moore has been good on pitching and bad on position players

And one could argue that he has been so unrelentingly awful with regard to position players (majors and minors) that this tips the balance to below average overall. This offseason is a big data point. And it has been a failure. $13.9M for these three players, including giving up Ramirez and Nunez? That was incompetent.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 11:33 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That is a really overly simplistic way to view a GM
As to say, "he’s good at pitching, bad at position players."

That is an accurate description of his track record with the Royals.

Moore was given crap to work with, and he has still managed to do a lot.

I give him credit for what HE has done. The moves he’s made and failed to make.

But really, and I know you know this, there is way more to a GM’s job than signing FA’s for the big league club

Yes, many more things. Including trades. And there have been some real stinkers.

Moore has done so much for our farm system that in the long run, the Royals will be a better franchise for what he has done (PS: how has Moore been "unrelentingly awful" with the position players in our farm system? We didn’t have any good position players in the farm system besides Butler and Gordon when he showed up).

Moore has built up the pitching in the farm system very, very well. With the exception of the two first round picks, he’s done absolutely nothing of significance on the position player side.

I didn’t like the Jacobs trade, but all it cost us is about 2.5M and an oft-injured middle reliever; in the grand scheme of things, it is fairly minor.

No, it’s not. Moore has made this the Royals solution to their 1B problem. The solution was to give up a good reliever for a 1B who doesn’t hit very well (decent power for a 1B and horrible OBP) and is awful defensively. He’s saddled the Royals with another Gload-like solution (not as bad as Gload, but another guy who is going to take up space at the position, not be good enough for the position, and make too much money for his subpar production)

I have grown to be optimistic that we will come out ahead on the Crisp deal—again, we simply gave up a reliever whose stock will probably never be higher than it was then, and Crisp + moving DDJ to left should make our OF defense way better, which is no small thing when everyone in our rotation except for Hochevar are flyball pitchers.

I’m pretty neutral on the Crisp deal. I see the positives. But it was stupid to work hard to acquire a CFer when what the Royals needed was a corner OFer.

I don’t like the Farnsworth signing either, but I say this in the nicest possible way: chill out and put this into some perspective.

I really, truly am putting this in perspective.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 11:54 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah, Moore’s track record has been good on pitchers, bad on position players, but that doesn’t equate into he has done the franchise more harm than good, which is what a C- grade basically means. His whiffs on position players have been outweighed qualitatively by how he has built our pitching staff.

I’m not saying there haven’t been some real stinkers by Moore—indeed, I acknowledge it. But I think you are evaluating his overall tenure in a not very holistic way.

If Moore’s philosophy has been (and I generally think it has), in the draft, to take the best player available, then it makes sense that he grabs pitchers like Melville and Montgomery at the expense of position players. Yes, we are still lopsided towards pitchers, but the last thing I would want is for Moore to start drafting to need to try to correct that imbalance.

I genuinely don’t think Jacobs is seen as the solution to our 1b problems—his defense makes him an occasional 1b at best and a frequent dh. If he means the end of Gload, that is a good thing. + Jacobs – Gload = better Royals. Yes, losing Nunez sucked, because he pitched well when he was healthy, but he never was healthy and pitched in middle relief. That is about as expendable a player as you get. What we lost was relatively minor. I’m still not a fan of the Jacobs trade, but it is a molehill, not a mountain.

Ok, at this point, you’re not even warranting why it is stupid to get a CFer. DDJ is still above average as a LFer, all things considered, and Crisp’s upside isn’t at the plate—it is in the field, and if he is the defender he was in 2007, he’ll save us a lot of runs.

Yeah, we were all hoping for a big FA signing again and an extension for Greinke. I’ll withhold judgment on how Moore does this offseason until we see what happens with Greinke—if nothing happens (no extension, no trade), then yes, the offseason was a failure. But we’ll see what happens. So, again, chill. Chill is good. But that is easy for me to say, I live in, like, the capital of chill.

by DarthYoshi on Dec 11, 2008 1:08 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah, Moore’s track record has been good on pitchers, bad on position players, but that doesn’t equate into he has done the franchise more harm than good, which is what a C- grade basically means.

I would say that a C- grade means a below average GM. And a below average GM does not necessarily mean one who has done more harm than good.

BTW, this “grade” is tentative at best.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 1:11 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think it's tougher to hit on position players

Pitchers are easier to project.

Maybe it will just take more time to nail it all down.

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Dec 11, 2008 1:43 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Actually, I think pitchers are much, much harder to project

They have a much higher failure rate than position players.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 1:45 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1

Farnz is not a good idea… but I agree. Let’s chill out. Hopefully we’ll all be laughing in 2011.

by CollininCalifornia on Dec 11, 2008 12:16 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes, C- might be an overreaction, but

when your previous GM was a clear F+, you’d think C- was an A. Allard gets the + on the F because apparently ownership didn’t give him actual money to work with.

by AxDxMx on Dec 11, 2008 11:38 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oh, I don't think Moore deserves an A by any standard

I’d probably give him a B- at most. But on balance, I think he has done more good for the franchise than bad. I think that much is very clear.

by DarthYoshi on Dec 11, 2008 11:46 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree

he has done more good than harm, I was just cracking wise.

If Moore somehow signs Furcal, then we will win the division, and he goes to A+.

by AxDxMx on Dec 11, 2008 12:07 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

really?

Furcal would at most give the Royals 3 wins over Callaspo — assuming Callaspo really sucks at a German -like level, and Furcal stays healthy, plays 150 or so games, and does so at the level he played at in 2006.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 2:42 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Grade inflation

Today a C- is roughly equal to what a D was 15 years ago. Students today think they all start at a B, and as long as they do the minimum their grade should stay there.

I’d give Moore a B old school standard.

www.rockchalktalk.com for pretty good KU baseball coverage

by James Quinn on Dec 11, 2008 1:18 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Let me guess

You went to school 15+ years ago. And let me also guess that you didn’t take engineering classes at Iowa State. Ha

I would love B’s this semester.

At least Wally Joyner's not on the team....

by tcon125 on Dec 11, 2008 1:20 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah, I'm old.

And no, I didn’t take engineering classes. And I have the paychecks to prove it!

www.rockchalktalk.com for pretty good KU baseball coverage

by James Quinn on Dec 11, 2008 1:36 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Of course there are words

“This is the largest contract ever awarded to a middle-reliever who totally sucks.”

Unless Bob McClure can work miracles, I can’t see this being a good thing at all.

Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!

by cmkeller on Dec 11, 2008 10:55 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Anyone got Tonya Harding's phone number?

Maybe she needs to make a quick buck.

I'd rather be watching baseball.

by Sisquatch Kids on Dec 11, 2008 10:54 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes, Only She

Could mastermind a plan of this magnitude.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 10:55 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Calling Tonya Harding!

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 10:54 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Dayton Moore has spent $13.9M to make this team maybe a win or two better

Development of young players is going to give the Royals a few extra wins. But Moore’s acquisitions have been a horrible value for the money they cost. What an awful waste of money that could have really helped the Royals win more games.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 10:58 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

$13 million

Could have landed you Rafael Furcal AND Juan Rivera, or simply Adam Dunn.

I think I’d rather land one big fish, than lots of little fish, especially if the little fish are replacement level

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 11:01 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well, I don't know if it could get Furcal and Rivera

But it could certainly get you Furcal, or maybe Dunn, or maybe Bradley.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 11:02 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

MIKE ARBUCKLE NOW!

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 10:59 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So much for making room in the payroll for Furcal

what a fucking joke. Maybe the Royals will contend once Moustakas and Hosmer are in their prime.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 11:00 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You seemed rather mildly optimistic after the Jacobs/Crisp deals.

I thought they made the team a little better and the development of young players would get the Royals to .500. But the succession of bad moves makes it look more and more like Dayton Moore isn’t the kind of guy who helps you get over the big hump which lays between .500 and contention.

Farnsy doesn’t really change that much. At worst, he’ll suck and we’ll just be out the money.

 We were in the running for Furcal and reportedly trying to make payroll room to sign him. Now you can forget about that. And there isn’t money left to get any impact players this offseason, so .500 mediocrity is the most we can hope for. And this stupid two-year commitment somewhat hurts our flexibility to sign an impact player next year.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 11:06 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What's the succession of bad moves since the Coco deal?

Getting Cuevas? HoRam?

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 11:11 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The succession of bad moves this offseason

Jacobs (clearly bad)
Coco (a little bad…overall ok impact, but a wrong headed move to acquire a CFer when we didn’t need one)
Farnsworth

That’s a horrible combination of moves to spend all of the available payroll budget on. And taken as a whole, that’s fucking awful. Making no trades and spending the money on one good player would mean having Furcal, R. Ramirez and Nunez on the same team. That is considerably better, and a little cheaper.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 11:14 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So with Farnsworth and HoRam signed

Do we have roster space left for a Rule 5 pick?

by AxDxMx on Dec 11, 2008 11:41 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Neither has officially signed yet

Farnsworth has to take a physical and then sign the deal. HoRam hasn’t even been announced yet. So there is room. But with their addition, and a Rule 5 acquisition (if we do it), two will have to come off the 40-man to make room.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 11:43 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well that's not really a problem

There are at least a couple guys we could do that to isn’t there? Like TPJ and ROSS GLOAD!! If we trade Guillen for a Turkey sandwich, do we have to put the turkey sandwich on the roster?

by AxDxMx on Dec 11, 2008 11:44 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If they want to make a pick

they can make the pick, put the player on the 40 man roster, and drop someone like Mario Lisson a few days down the road when HoRam’s deal is finalized. That would let them pick someone without having to worry as much about losing the guy they drop from the 40 man roster.

by Top Ramen on Dec 11, 2008 11:50 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

OK, Now I'm

In the “glass half broken” mode.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 11:02 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm with you

The really sad part about this for me, is that I was hoping the Royals had a pretty good general manager. Now I’m hoping he’s going to do some things to make me believe he’s average.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 11:03 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If He Can

Trade Hoagie for a leftover turkey sandwich all will be forgiven.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 11:04 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Maybe If It's

A decent dry red.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 11:07 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Done. I'm Getting

My hammer and shopping for supplies right now.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 11:34 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Your analysis is top notch as ever!

Wrong on part one, wrong on part two. Thanks for playing.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 11:07 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's All About

The hyperbole!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 11:09 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He gets an A for hyperbole

I won’t grade the rest.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 11:09 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That Red "x"

was supposed to have been more !1’s and a 2/9.25.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 11:12 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Today is the 19th anniversary

Of the Royals signing Mark Davis, if that tells you anything.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 11:04 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Fortunately, There Is

No comparison between Farnsworth’s and Davis’ deals, especially in constant dollars.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 11:11 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

True, but there is a good comparison in the Sullivan, Henry, Elarton, Redman and Sanders deals

That’s a real murderer’s row of awful signings.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 11:12 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

They're almost for the same amount of money in absolute dollars

I believe Davis signed for 3 years $9.25 million, not too far off, although off by one year.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 11:12 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Davis Magically Transported

from 1989 to 2008 would probably get 5/75 from someone.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 11:14 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Probably more like K-Rod's deal

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 11:17 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+2

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 2:43 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think there must be an error in the text

I’m certain it’s actually a 9 year $9.25m deal.

by jsolo on Dec 11, 2008 11:12 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree, he overpaid for Farnsworth...

which to me makes no sense. If you’re going to deal RamRam/Nunez, you gotta know where those arms are going to come from, and you can’t convince me Farnsworth at 4.5M+ was part of that plan. I think he panicked.

by Bart41 on Dec 11, 2008 11:14 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The two worst signings of Moore's tenure have both seemed like he panicked

Jose Guillen and Kyle Farnsworth. Neither one had much in the way of suitors, they both fit the hole that had to be filled, and the Royals offer was far above what the market should’ve been for them.

by Top Ramen on Dec 11, 2008 11:21 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yea, who else was after Farnsworth?

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 11:21 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Haven't heard rumors of anyone else

There was the interview where his agent said he was going to pimp him to the Royals, but didn’t mention any other teams.

by Top Ramen on Dec 11, 2008 11:23 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

good point

make that “had” to be filled, though

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 2:44 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

There isn't 100% confirmation yet I'm holding out hope that it is a club option on the

second year

It takes 46 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip 'em the bird.

by kcscoliny on Dec 11, 2008 11:15 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It is on the Royals official team site

That’s 100%

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 11:15 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wait, I figured it out. It's definitely a typo

Site says 2 years 9.25m, I think it’s actually 20 years 9.25m. They just left off a zero. It’s okay. We’re okay. No need to panic.

by jsolo on Dec 11, 2008 11:17 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Farnsworth is the bane of my existence

I'm about to change my username to DannyDuffyfan

by jackie ballgame on Dec 11, 2008 11:17 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Overpaid, sucks, and he's an asshole too!

He’s the complete player. Had to have a pitcher to complement Guillen.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 11:18 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

How many jerks can we have on one team?

This must certainly make us the favorite for Milton Bradley. And I bet we get Elijah Dukes too.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 11:22 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Consider

Furcal for $44 million = huge injury risk
Rivera, Dunn, Burrell – horrible defenders on a team that is already bad defensively.

The point is, if we signed Furcal or anyone else we’d all be shitting all over ourselves talking about the negatives of those signings as well.

I agree that we’ve overpaid for Farnsworth, but let’s take a breath and put it in perspective.

Besides, look at the bright side, nobody is going to fuck with this team, they will kick some serious ass!

I hereby resign from this post.

by Home Run Tony Cogan on Dec 11, 2008 11:18 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The point is, if we signed Furcal or anyone else we’d all be shitting all over ourselves talking about the negatives of those signings as well.

No, we wouldn’t be shitting ourselves. We’d be happy about it, but recognizing the risks. The key difference between signing Furcal and acquiring Jacobs/Crisp/Farnsworth is that Furcal has the upside to really help a lot. Those three do not. Their upside is just ok performance.

I agree that we’ve overpaid for Farnsworth, but let’s take a breath and put it in perspective.

I have. The opportunity cost of these three moves is staggering. It’s painful to see what we could have got, and what we got instead, for more money, and that we had to give up talent for some of it.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 11:21 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes, but only because of Kevin Seitzer

155-7!

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 11:23 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I hope Seitzer can improve Farnsworth's slider

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 11:25 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

McClure Will Turn

Him into a crafty lefry.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 11:35 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Or Maybe Even

A crafty lefty.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 11:36 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Now that idea I like

Lemons -————- lemonade

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 11:36 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Crafty LeFry

wasn’t she one of Olivia Newton-John’s sidekicks in Grease

I should probably stop commenting, here, since there’s been an overflow

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 2:45 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Pirates are about to sign

Ramon Vazquez’s mustache to a two year $4 million deal

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 11:23 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Clearly German has some trade value then

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 11:24 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So now a Furcal deal

Almost has to hinge on dumping Guillen and nearly 100% of his salary?

by Top Ramen on Dec 11, 2008 11:25 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes, unless Glass is willing to increase payroll even more (it's up to $75M now)

So forget about Furcal, or Dunn or Bradley or any potential impact FA. It’s over. We chose Farnsworth instead.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 11:27 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wouldn't it hinge

by your rational that Farnsworth is costing us Furcal, then wouldn’t it hinge on KC eating $4.25 M?

by GoBabies!! on Dec 11, 2008 11:29 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 11:34 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Farnsworth

I’m not a fan of this deal, but I don’t think it is going to be a factor in us going or not going after a Furcal/Rivera/other FA…..

$9+ M over 2 years is high, and I think it could have been better spent, but it isn’t by any means a crippling deal. i.e. comparing it to 3/36 for Guillen is not valid IMO.

I personally would have preferred Lyon, even at $1-$2M more per year, but I’m not cursing GMDM about this one. He filled a need.

While Farnsworth is hardly a leader in terms of charachter (not that he’s JoGui or anything), he is a frigging COMPETITOR. He’s the kid of guy, like Pierzinski that if you are playing against him, you freaking HATE his guts, but if he is on your team, you have to love his fire.

by GoBabies!! on Dec 11, 2008 11:27 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He's such a competitor

His team last year dumped him in the middle of a pennant race.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 11:31 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Do you think Moore and Glass are lying about the payroll budget?
I’m not a fan of this deal, but I don’t think it is going to be a factor in us going or not going after a Furcal/Rivera/other FA…..

Moore said his ceiling was $70M and that he has to get Glass’s permission to go over that. With Farnsworth signed, we’re now at $75M. They had an outside chance to trade most of Guillens’ contract away to make room to sign Furcal. Now they’d have to trade all of his contract away. Now that they’ve wasted $4.6M on Farnsworth, where is the money for an impact FA?

While Farnsworth is hardly a leader in terms of charachter (not that he’s JoGui or anything), he is a frigging COMPETITOR.

Oh great. Jose Guillen is also a COMPETITOR. You know what is more important than being a competitor? Being a good baseball player. Guillen and Farnsworth are lacking. But maybe their competitiveness will overcome the fact that they suck.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 11:31 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You too

You’re out of control!!!!!!!!!!!!111

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 11:34 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm a realist

I’m not a negativist, nor a Moore basher. I call it straight. Always have.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 11:35 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I

agree that you believe you call it straight, but you definitely have a more negative view toward the bulk of moves. Your arguments are generally (if not always) sound & based in reality.

I just think this is at worst a ‘meh’ type of deal. Like I said, it’s not going to cost the ability to sign anybody else. And, lets face it, a good deal of yesterdays discussion was about how we SHOULDN’T sign Furcal, and now this deal is, in some peoples mind (not mine) not allowing that to happen.

by GoBabies!! on Dec 11, 2008 11:39 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I just think this is at worst a ‘meh’ type of deal

Wildly overpaying for a bad reliever is not ‘meh’. It is doubly not ‘meh’ when it is two guaranteed years (hurting your ability to sign good players for two years). It is triply not ‘meh’ when it makes certain you can’t sign an impact FA.

Like I said, it’s not going to cost the ability to sign anybody else.

Did you read my post? Are you not familiar with the payroll budget and that we’re over it already by about $5M? Of course this is keeping us from signing a genuinely good FA.

nd, lets face it, a good deal of yesterdays discussion was about how we SHOULDN’T sign Furcal, and now this deal is, in some peoples mind (not mine) not allowing that to happen.

Nope, yesterday’s discussion led to a consensus that we should sign Furcal for the right price. Some thought 3/36 was a smart ceiling. Some thought more like 4/44.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 11:47 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

the majority of people

thought anything OVER 3 years was bad

by GoBabies!! on Dec 11, 2008 11:48 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And the "payroll Budget"

You are referencing is complete speculation.

I don’t give a shit what GMDM has said publicly, we can spend a LOT more than what they have said publicly. Again, estimates from local & National media have placed revenue sharing at OVER $50M for ’08. Glass has a large share in one of the few business in America that is profiting greatly over our current economic crisis. Plus we are opening up a majorly renovated ball park next year and were sold on that as taxpayers with promises of a competitive product.

There is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON that KC can’t have an $80-$90M OR MORE payroll in ’09. NONE. ZERO.

by GoBabies!! on Dec 11, 2008 11:52 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And the “payroll Budget”
You are referencing is complete speculation.

Moore said in the Star that $70M was about the top of the payroll budget. Do you think Moore is just speculating too?

I don’t give a shit what GMDM has said publicly, we can spend a LOT more than what they have said publicly

So you think Glass is wiling to take the payroll up to 85, 90, 95M? What do you base this on? Spoken with him recently? You may want him to spend that much, but thinking he’s willing to do it at this point, especially in this economy is like believing in Santa Claus.

There is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON that KC can’t have an $80-$90M OR MORE payroll in ’09. NONE. ZERO.

Is there “absolutely no reason” to think that Glass doesn’t want to spend that much? In reality, you have no reason to believe he’s willing to kick the payroll that high. You’re living in a dream world.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 11:58 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not wanting to

And not being able to are two differnt things

by GoBabies!! on Dec 11, 2008 11:59 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He has every ability to do so, and remain in the black as an owner. It sure appears that GMDM is prying some of that cash away from him.

by GoBabies!! on Dec 11, 2008 12:03 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think just about every team can afford to spend much more on payroll than they do

But they have budgets nonetheless. Owners aren’t willing to just spend every penny of revenues, or even 90, or even 80. So yes, Farnsworth has killed the Royals chance to sign an impact FA, because like every team the Royals have a budget and limited payroll flexibility. This is the real world.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 12:04 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Rany's recent post...

on the relatively incredible (given overall economic conditions) performance of Wal-Mart stock may have Glass feeling particularly randy, financially-speaking, these days.

Of course, like you said, it’s all speculation until the money is actually spent.,

by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 11, 2008 1:06 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

what?

I know we are going to disagree on this, but Jacobs, no upside? Come on.

In the Royals game of life, Neifi Perez is the rake.

by Matty486 on Dec 11, 2008 11:28 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He's at his peak

He’s likely to have a .300 OBP and a .500ish SLG. Think he’s still improving at his age?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 11:35 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ops

872 out of florida last year

In the Royals game of life, Neifi Perez is the rake.

by Matty486 on Dec 11, 2008 11:39 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

By that small sample of data tells me all I need to know, doesn't it?

If you’re going to use stats, use them right.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 11:59 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

IM AWAKE

Furcal cmon over. welcome farnsworth ? ok

Werd.

by focs on Dec 11, 2008 11:33 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not surprisingly

The Farnsy deal is going over well at Royals Corner.

I can’t wait for Rob Neyer to bitch and moan about it.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 11:36 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What is up with those people?

Who are they? Toolsy prospect junkies?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 11:37 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Any move is a good move

To them.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 11:38 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Never Confuse Motion

With progress.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 11:39 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And bag of crap

Would still field better than Mike Jacobs!!!!

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 11:56 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If We're Lucky

The only thing Jacobs will regularly defend is home plate when he has 2 strikes on him.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 11:57 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I dont mind it.

Farnsworth isnt worth the money we gave him but

he had a very unlucky bapip and surely his HR rate wont be as high next year in kauffman.

Also I thought we all agreed upon not criticizing moores bullpen consruction CMON NY GET ON TOP OF IT

Werd.

by focs on Dec 11, 2008 11:39 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So long as it doesn't keep us from signing Furcal

I’m okay with it. Sure we overpaid, but Farnsworth has a decent chance of being okay.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 11:42 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

if we are truly after Furcal

this deal wouldn’t cost us him at all

by GoBabies!! on Dec 11, 2008 11:44 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs