Winter Meetings Day Four Overflow Thread
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 1:55 PM EST
499 comments
This has been an interesting day.
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Royals acquire OF Jordan Parraz from Houston
As compensation for Lumsden
http://minors.baseball-reference.com/players.cgi?pid=11003
Great deal! Parraz is just 24 with a lifetime .370 OBA.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 1:57 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
He walks way too much for this organization
It takes 46 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip 'em the bird.
by kcscoliny on Dec 11, 2008 1:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
no grit?
… i thought i smelled a wimp
by CollininCalifornia on Dec 11, 2008 1:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He was the #12 prospect in the Astros organization
According to Sickels
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 2:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, I was figuring the return was going to be cash
by Top Ramen on Dec 11, 2008 2:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
or a nice fruit basket
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
by buddyball on Dec 11, 2008 2:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A Lovely Parting
Gift.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 10:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Damn good deal.. wow
How bout that year when he was 21 .336/.421/.494 for a .915 OPS
Werd.
by focs on Dec 11, 2008 1:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah...why has he not spent any time in AA ball yet?
by DarthYoshi on Dec 11, 2008 2:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
hmm. good question
he is tearing up A
Werd.
by focs on Dec 11, 2008 2:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
he's an ok prospect, not a great one
languishing at that level at that age doesn’t bode well. We knew we wouldn’t get a truly good prospect for Lumsden.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 2:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
he's a secret weapon
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 3:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
it would be better if he was a double secret weapon
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
by buddyball on Dec 11, 2008 4:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This Guy Was
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 10:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
my hero
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
by buddyball on Dec 12, 2008 12:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He Died On
My birthday; really bummed me out.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 12, 2008 1:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
so what you are telling me is that you are, in part, responsible for this tragedy?
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
by buddyball on Dec 12, 2008 3:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Damn good deal there
Something good happened today.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 2:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thank Jesus and Overflow Thread
It takes 46 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip 'em the bird.
by kcscoliny on Dec 11, 2008 1:57 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Ahhh
i feel refreshed.. all that negativity in the other thread was draining me
Werd.
by focs on Dec 11, 2008 1:58 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I feel much better now
(putting on a brave face)
Brave! now I’M obsessed!
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 1:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
These Are The
Days that make Valium, Xanax, Prozac et al perennial best sellers.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 10:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Scouting report for Parraz when he was drafted
Speed and power part two. Jordan Parraz has both. Parraz was a freshman at CCSN this year. He was their regular centerfielder. He was also the starting pitcher in 8 games. In 44 games this season Parraz led CCSN in avg (.398), slg (.542), and obp (.507). In just 118 at-bats he hit 11 doubles, 2 homers, and had 29 RBI. He also had 13 stolen bases in 18 attempts.
Unlike Pence, Parraz has a power arm. In high school last year Parraz was clocked with a 95-97 mph fastball. In his junior year of high school Jordan broke a bone in his right (pitching) elbow. That clearly didn’t affect his velocity, but may be one reason the Astros want him to play CF. He was healthy all year this year so it’s unlikely he’ll have a continuing problem.
He was drafted by the Phillies last year in the 6th round as a pitcher. He expected to go a round or three higher and so expected a good chunk of change. The Phillies offered him six figures, but Jordan turned them down and put his hopes on the 2004 draft. His coach expected Jordan to be taken no later than the third round. It appears he made the right call. Parraz can expect at least a third round level signing bonus. As an added benefit Parraz prefers to be an everyday player and was drafted by the Astros who agree with him. If the Astros offer him what he considers a fair deal expect Parraz to sign and be assigned to Greeneville, the Astros new rookie league affiliate.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 2:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
this is already way too positive a post
someone curse!
by CollininCalifornia on Dec 11, 2008 2:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Douche!
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 2:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bite Me
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 10:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
J Parraz
Yeah, his number look good, but I’m with NYRoyal… it’s not a good sign he was stuck in A ball for this long… obviously.
by CollininCalifornia on Dec 11, 2008 2:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Could be dumbness by the Astros
They’re not known to be good with minor leaguers.
And let’s not forget, Soria was “stuck” in A ball and exposed to the Rule 5.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 2:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
there is no breaking the positive spins
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
by buddyball on Dec 11, 2008 2:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Admit it: Our savior DM is Allard Baird with more money to spend
I always thought that if Allard was given a $75 million payroll, he’d put a Michael Tucker at every position and a Scott Elarton at every spot in the rotation.
I think DM is finally realizing Allard’s dream.
BTW, I think he got really lucky with Meche. That signing should have been a disaster, too. Good thing Andruw Jones was too smart to sign here. I’m not too impressed with our boy GMDM.
by hippdoghipp on Dec 11, 2008 2:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
fair enough...
but i’d prefer to give GMDM the benefit of the doubt on Meche — that he actually knew what he was doing. Also, nabbing Soria was good. And oh yeah, nabbing RamRam and HoRam (twice) also seem to be good moves.
I respect your opinion (b/c this is the positive thread) but I think GMDM is smarter than Baird… with or without the $$$
by CollininCalifornia on Dec 11, 2008 2:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We don't have to be in one ditch or the other
Let’s give Moore credit for the good things he’s done (Meche, Soria and many more) along with the bad things he’s done (I can’t bring myself to list them right now).
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 2:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i choose to be in the
positive, give the benefit of the doubt to Moore, “ditch”. Of course you can lay in the middle if you want… but when comparing GMDM to Baird, I’m going to say GMDM smells better, eats healthier, has a lower carbon footprint and makes better baseball moves than Baird.
by CollininCalifornia on Dec 11, 2008 2:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Moore is better too
Based on the moves they made (and I have no idea if Baird’s moves were forced by ownership), I’d tentatively give them the following grades:
Baird D
Moore C
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 2:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
but of course you're right
that in his own right, without comparing him to Baird, GMDM makes some bad decisions. I’ll for sure grant you that, NYRoyal
by CollininCalifornia on Dec 11, 2008 2:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
GMDM's ability to get Glass to open up the checkbook on the draft and the payroll
makes him smarter than Allard and that is before we get to any moves made by either.
It takes 46 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip 'em the bird.
by kcscoliny on Dec 11, 2008 2:11 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
We don't know if Moore is the reason Glass is more willing to spend money
Could be, but we don’t know.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 2:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
what other options are there?
being visited by the ghost of christmas past?
by Bart41 on Dec 11, 2008 2:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i'm telling you
it’s because GMDM smells better — a pheromone thing.
by CollininCalifornia on Dec 11, 2008 2:18 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Realizing from the failure going cheap that he needed to invest more to win more.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 2:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I Must Strongly
Suspect GMDM had something to do with this, especially given his background in scouting and player development. Also, why wouldn’t he want to pick over the players he helped scout/develop in Atlanta over the last decade? It only makes sense.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 10:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Changes to Revenue Sharing in 2003?
The changes to the structure are what changed Glass. Moore is a by product, as is the money they have agreed to spend.
by Big Guy on Dec 11, 2008 2:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The opening of the renovated K....
and an overall down economy may also be driving this. I think Glass knows he’s got to put a competitive product on the field this year to help drive ticket sales in this economy. And I think he genuinely feels like he owes the fanbase a little more in light of the hundreds of millions of tax dollars spent. Plus, Glass has probably been doing well (see Rany’s post on the performance of Wal-Mart’s stock) while other owners may have felt the dramatic swing in the market a little more (as in “swing to the nuts”).
by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 11, 2008 2:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Farnsy needs the $$$
did you see, the son doesn’t even have a proper pair of blue jeans!
I hereby resign from this post.
by Home Run Tony Cogan on Dec 11, 2008 2:13 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Now I feel bad about saying bad things about Mr. Farnsworth
I want to buy that kid some jeans for Xmas now.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 2:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bah! Humbug!
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 10:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I've got a permanent smile on my face today...
I think all of this wailing and gnashing of teeth is absolutely hilarious.
Paging Mr. Neyer…
I hereby resign from this post.
by Home Run Tony Cogan on Dec 11, 2008 2:18 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Rany's take on Farnsworth:
More and more, it’s clear that Moore is aggressively trying to make the Royals into a contender in 2009-2010, with the caveat that he won’t do anything that might hamstring the Royals from building a year-in, year-out juggernaut in 2012 and beyond. In that vein, I understand why he’d sign someone like Farnsworth over Juan Cruz, who several readers have pointed out is a Type A free agent and would have cost the Royals their second-round pick. All Farnsworth costs the Royals is some of David Glass’s money. If you’re of the opinion that the Royals are still two years away from contention, then this move doesn’t matter one way or the other.
But if you’re of the opinion that the Royals can contend in 2009 or 2010 – and so long as Zack Greinke is under contract, I think they can – then you have to ask yourself, was there a better way to spend this money to win more games over the next two years? Maybe Glass’s bank account is inexhaustible, and there’s still money left in the till for Furcal. But if there isn’t, then Moore just blew his chance to sign an impact everyday shortstop for a hot-headed, over-rated, meatball-grooving middle reliever.
by djk royal on Dec 11, 2008 2:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I don't think Glass is willing to spend an infinite amount of money
But if there isn’t, then Moore just blew his chance to sign an impact everyday shortstop for a hot-headed, over-rated, meatball-grooving middle reliever.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 2:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Will someone tell Rany this is the positive thread
go post that shit somewhere else
Werd.
by focs on Dec 11, 2008 2:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Is there anyway KC says Farnworth failed the physical after signing Waechter
and pulls the offer off the table. I would love that ruthless move.
It takes 46 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip 'em the bird.
by kcscoliny on Dec 11, 2008 2:26 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Sure, they could do that
But they want him. Inexplicably they want him and they want to pay him that much money over two years.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 2:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
would herpes cause him to fail the physical?
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 3:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dayton is a born again Christian. He doesn't allow that.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 3:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So Is This
Guy.
And he’s no longer a homosexual, either.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 10:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
who is that?
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 10:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Colorado evangelical preacher who was once a big wheel
…until he got ratted out for buy drugs and sharing sex with some guy in the city.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 11:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It is encouraging that KC is thinking about adding Furcal.
I thought they could get payroll to 90-100M with a renovated stadium its nice that they are actually thinking about it.
It takes 46 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip 'em the bird.
by kcscoliny on Dec 11, 2008 2:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I don't think they are thinking about that for a second
I think Moore is working hard to try to trade Guillen. The only way the Royals have enough money to sign Furcal is if Guillen’s contract goes bye-bye. The payroll won’t be anywhere near $90M, imo. They aren’t particularly close now (about $77M now.)
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 2:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good luck with that Dayton
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 2:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Furcal+77M = 88
I don’t see Guillen going anywhere in this market. What’s his value in this market? I just eat it hope he comes to camp in shape and performs his way out of KC.
It takes 46 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip 'em the bird.
by kcscoliny on Dec 11, 2008 2:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Right and I don't think there is any chance that Glass is willing to do an $88M payroll this year
I think the Royals pursuit of Furcal is happening at the same time they are desperately trying to trade Guillen. Of course they are very unlikely to succeed in that effort, but I appreciate Moore working at it.
You may be willing to just “eat it” and throw another $11M at Furcal, but I don’t think Glass is willing to do that with his money. He’s not Steinbrenner (the elder or younger).
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 2:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fuck Glass.
He has a ridiculous amount of money and could easily support a 100MM dollar payroll.. pisses me off he just cant go up to 88 mil
Werd.
by focs on Dec 11, 2008 2:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
not to mention revenue sharing + his business is booming + renovated stadium.
$88M SHOULD be the minimum KC fans expect, not the max
by GoBabies!! on Dec 11, 2008 2:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
With very, very few exceptions, pro sports owners don't put their own money into the payroll
The re-invest revenues into the payroll, after taking some profit. These big money enterprises are usually run like businesses, not hobbies. By all estimates, the Royals are spending a very normal percentage of revenues on their payroll.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 2:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"never put your own money in the show.!"
by Steve Hovley on Dec 11, 2008 10:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But Do Take
The profit when you sell the franchise. I wish Mark Cuban would buy this team. He’s nothing like Mr. K, but he wants to win and knows he’ll make money in the long run.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 11, 2008 10:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
Mark Cuban pisses me off, but he’ll sink money in, and strikes me as a guy with a progressive mindset for finding people to run things
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 10:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, absolutely agree
He’s a side show but the Royals would definitely be winners soon.
by kabrink on Dec 12, 2008 12:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and they'd get nice terricloth robes, too!
At least he’d be banned from the dugout
It would make me want to work for the Royals, except that I’d probably have to hang out with him on the road to keep the job…
“Screw Fangraphs, D_F, let’s go get hamered with Farns and JoGui!”
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 12, 2008 12:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, at least at this point,
The KC writers should finally be assuming that Guillen’s the one that has to go if Furcal is coming.
It was getting a little old seeing, “The Royals can afford him, but they’d likely have to trade or non-tender Buck, Teahen, Bale, Gobble, Peralta, and probably Sluggerrr to free up enough room on the payroll”, while they ignored the giant elephant in the room.
by Top Ramen on Dec 11, 2008 2:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
12 pitchers
Meche
Zack
Davies
Hoch
Banny
HoRam
Waechter
Farns
Mahahay
Tejeda
Bale
Soria
In the Royals game of life, Neifi Perez is the rake.
by Matty486 on Dec 11, 2008 2:43 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Zack – 1
Meche – 2
Davies – 3
Banny – 4
Hoch – 5
LRP – Ho Ram
LRP – Bale
MRP – Tejeda
MRP – Waechter
SU – Mahay
SU – Farnsworth
CL – Soria
Werd.
by focs on Dec 11, 2008 2:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think I'd rather have brad penny over furcal...
call me crazy but that 3-4-5 isn’t confidence inspiring.
by Bart41 on Dec 11, 2008 2:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Peralta is better than one or two guys in that 12
And yet he’ll probably get non-tendered. Another mistake.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 2:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
better
is such a strong word, he’s comparable, not better
In the Royals game of life, Neifi Perez is the rake.
by Matty486 on Dec 11, 2008 2:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
not better than Waechter?
He’s at least comparable to Farnsworth.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 2:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No, he doesn't
The stats over 3 years tell a different tale. He had a flukey/unlucky HR/FB rate in 2008. Over the last 3 years, Peralta has been as good as Farnsworth.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 2:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Jose Lugo
would have a spot in that pen wouldnt he ? who would be the odd man out? Bale ?
Werd.
by focs on Dec 11, 2008 2:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Traded to SEA for cash
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 2:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
really ?
i thought you guys were just kidding
what a waste of a rule 5 pick
Werd.
by focs on Dec 11, 2008 2:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not really....
if there was no one that we truly liked then take someone and get a little cash. I know it isn’t much but better than nothing. It was probably an arranged deal.
by powder blues on Dec 11, 2008 2:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There isn't much talent out there
The rule changes make it much more difficult to find an Uggla or Soria. The only players worth a spit IMO were Veal and Morlan. The rest aren’t likely to stick.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 3:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I read on the other
thread that we sold him to Seattle…..is this accurate?
by powder blues on Dec 11, 2008 2:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I know it is just one year...
but Waechter was WAY better than Peralta in 2008.
by DarthYoshi on Dec 11, 2008 2:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Right
one year. Look at a 3-year sample. Look at Peralta’s flukey hr/fb luck. THIS is how you find, acquire or keep good, cheap relievers. You don’t dump cheap guys like Peralta and acquire expensive guys who likely aren’t better like Farnsworth.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 2:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
when does flukey
begin to = gives up an obscene amount of HR’s becuase he sucks?
by GoBabies!! on Dec 11, 2008 2:58 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Research has shown that HR’s are a function of FB’s. A pitcher is likely to give up a HR on about 11% of his FB’s. Deviation from 11% is about luck.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 2:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So getting Coco was brilliant!
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 3:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't buy that
deviation is about luck argument. If you are gawd awful, you are going to give up more HR’s because you suck, not because of bad luck.
By that logic, you could call up any average, no potential A pitcher to MLB and expect 11% of his flyballs to leave the yard, and be throuroughly shocked when 25% of them do.
by GoBabies!! on Dec 11, 2008 3:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Have you read the research?
It is quite persuasive and widely agreed to. We’re talking about major league pitchers here, not anyone off the street or a 17 year old in rookie ball.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 3:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
but who is judging Peralta as a MLB pitcher?
Isn’t it possible that 07 was the abberation, and ’08 was the real Peralta?
by GoBabies!! on Dec 11, 2008 3:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ABSOLUTELY NOT
why would you even suggests that !! IDIOT
Werd.
by focs on Dec 11, 2008 3:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What an odd question
Career ERA of 4.45 in 248.2 MLB innings. Does that sound like a major league pitcher to you? Think a random A-ball pitcher or guy off the street can pull that off?
Struggled but held his own in his rookie season. Pretty good 2006. Good 2007. Bad/unlucky 2008.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 3:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
go ahead and say it.
Shitty, embarrassing, make you wanna puke, 2008
Werd.
by focs on Dec 11, 2008 3:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And when evaluating a player, the most recent season is all that matters
Batted ball luck and HR/FB luck should also be ignored. Hey, let’s just look at his number of IBB’s, that should tell us all we really need to know.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 3:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That is why I am decidedly NOT a Metrics guy
And damn proud of it.
I watched Peralta pitch last year, and I don’t give a shit what his numbers WERE, or statisticaly SHOULD BE. I saw a BAD PITCHER with no confidence, giving up 850 Ft Homeruns damn near every time he was in the game.
His curveball was terrible and his fastball didn’t move. I’ll watch him again in ST, and if I see the same, he’s done, what he did his rookie year – 07 hardly matters
by GoBabies!! on Dec 11, 2008 3:21 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Amateur scouting is better than statistical analysis
If you say so.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 3:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Condenscending tones
Are the last resort to every lost argument
by GoBabies!! on Dec 11, 2008 3:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You ended the argument by saying that your subjective amateur scouting judgment is worth more than any and all stats. Do you know what hubris is? Objective, rational measures are worth much more than your or my subjective amateur scouting opinion…buy a lot. But I won’t argue with your irrationality. It won’t go anywhere. Keeping trusting your own scouting eye.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 3:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Did I say that? I dont remember saying that? No wonder you dont get my points, you read into them what you choose, as opposed to what they say
I never said my scouting eye is worth more than statistical analysis, I implied that I TRUST my eye more than I trust statistics from >1 year ago.
Statistics are valuable. They are valuable to validate or invalidate what we see with our eye. A guy may look glossy as HELL to the eye – Shane Costa. But the stats don’t validate what the eye sees. On the other hand, the eye could tell you a guy will never produce – Mike Aviles, and the eye is wrong.
by GoBabies!! on Dec 11, 2008 3:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
yes, of course that's what you said
“I don’t care what the numbers were…I saw a bad pitcher.”
I never said my scouting eye is worth more than statistical analysis, I implied that I TRUST my eye more than I trust statistics from >1 year ago.
So you’re scouting eye plus one year of stats is all that is really important. Stats before that don’t really matter? Wow.
They are valuable to validate or invalidate what we see with our eye.
What you and I think we see with our eyes isn’t one-tenth as trustworthy as the stats. Are we good, experienced MLB scouts? So should our fan opinion of a guy’s stuff and control mean more than his actual performance. Please, you can’t be serious. Tell me you’re not serious.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 3:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This is so typical
from everything that i have ever read by NY……people think differently. You love statistics……some people like them but they are not the end all be all. I hate the ridiculous stats that are used today but understand that we need them to evaluate players for past and future performance. There is also scouting that doesn’t involve stats. There is a place for both of them. It doesn’t make one right or wrong in my opinion or for that matter one more or less important. Just because we are amateurs thought doesn’t mean we can’t tell with out eyes who is a great, good, decent, poor, or horrible player. I respect your opinion NY but just happen to not agree with all the statistical analysis. Just love the fact that in the end we just all hope for us to get a winner back in KC.
by powder blues on Dec 11, 2008 3:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You love statistics……some people like them but they are not the end all be all.
I completely agree. I think good evaluation requires both stats and scouting. I think good MLB scouts add something vital to player evaluation. I think the scouting opinions of fans like me and you is worth very, very little.
I think scouting reports and the opinions of good analysts are worth a lot. Fan scouting opinion is just not very reliable or meaningful.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 3:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agree
with you 100%…..our eyes are not anywhere near a scout’s eye, but we can pretend to think we know who is a good player or not. I just think that it’s great that a team like the Royals can have such passionate fans after years of failure. The year they were in 1st place at the break and in contention in August was truly incredible and wish it could happen every year.
by powder blues on Dec 11, 2008 4:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you
IMO, I don’t think future projections are reliable or meaningful. I’ve been hearing a lot of those numbers thrown around about how many wins players will add and what they will hit based on projections.
There is no way of knowing what a signing will do or wont do for a team until that season happens, just ask the Tampa Bay Rays.
by I need more Esteban on Dec 11, 2008 4:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
BP's own PECOTA
predicted the Rays breakout year. PECOTA is known widely as the most reliable projection system.
Alex Gordon in '08
by RoyalJHWKR on Dec 11, 2008 4:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This is the same reason I don't buy Stadium Adjustments
When the Royals had the worst bullpen of all time Kauffman was one of the best hitter’s park in the game… Hmmm… I wonder why. If every player were equal these arguments would hold, but they aren’t.
by AxDxMx on Dec 11, 2008 4:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
looking at a three year sample is not advisable
since Waechter’s previous 2 years were as a starter (before labrum surgery), so his stats are bound to be worse.
The other thing is, Peralta is way older and probably on the decline. Waechter turns, I think, 28, next year. Peralta may have been unlucky, but I also think age will be catching up with him, because he also had pretty heavy workloads for a reliever in 2006 and 2007. Peralta wasn’t simply the victim of bad luck.
And don’t confuse my argument—I’m not contesting Peralta vs. Farnsworth. But I am saying that, in all likelihood, Waechter > Peralta.
by DarthYoshi on Dec 11, 2008 2:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
From one year of relieving stats, you feel confident in saying that in all likelihood Waechter > Peralta? Peralta put together multiple good relieving seasons. We don’t know if Waechter is the real deal or not.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 3:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i would also say waechter is better for whats it worth
Werd.
by focs on Dec 11, 2008 3:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I just don't see the support in the statistical record
Nor do I think Waechter’s combination of stuff and control is better.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 3:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
but when Hillman looks him in the eye during ST
he’ll know
by royalsreview on Dec 11, 2008 3:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Moore has already checked his teeth
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 3:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 3:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
well, duh, you're not going to see it in the statistical record
that is because Peralta’s best years (the 3-year sample you talk about) came when he was 30 and 31 years old and in his prime. Waechter just last year or so entered into his prime. Peralta is on the decline, he’ll be 33 by opening day and is unlikely to be any better. Waechter should be decent for the next several years.
by DarthYoshi on Dec 11, 2008 3:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The decline curve for pitchers is not the same as the decline curve for position players
It can start to get steep for position players at 33. It isn’t at all steep for pitchers at 33, especially relief pitchers.
And my point is that you have very little data on which to draw any kind of conclusion that Waechter is better than Peralta. He may well be, but that small sample of relief work isn’t enough. I’d rather go with a known quantity that is pretty good and shouldn’t experience much decline at his age.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 3:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Especially If He's
Cheaper.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 12, 2008 12:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and Farns.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 3:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Uh, he's only making the minimum
therefore, he’s not as good
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 3:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
13 hitters
c olivo
1 jacobs
2 callaspo
3 gordon
ss aviles
dh butler
lf ddj
cf coco
rf guillen
c buck
ut teahen
if shealy
maier? german?
In the Royals game of life, Neifi Perez is the rake.
by Matty486 on Dec 11, 2008 2:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Something's got to give at 1B
I don’t think they can go into the season with Butler, Jacobs, and Shealy all on the roster.
by Top Ramen on Dec 11, 2008 2:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
actually if we got furcal
we wouldnt need german or maier..
there for Jose Lugo would be in our pen
Werd.
by focs on Dec 11, 2008 2:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Missing Gload
You might not want to see him there, but he’s under contract. No sign that he’s being traded or released.
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
by cmkeller on Dec 11, 2008 4:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
or
olivo
jacobs
aviles
gordon
furcal
ddj
coco
guillen
butler
buck
teahen
shealy
callaspo
In the Royals game of life, Neifi Perez is the rake.
by Matty486 on Dec 11, 2008 2:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
DM still has a lot of work to do on this roster
He is by no means done
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 2:57 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Where is he getting the money from?
Or do you think he’s going to trade a bunch of players?
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 3:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Im just saying.
It could go either way. maybe he miraculously gets the green ligh for furcal.. maybe he signs some shitty ass o-cab.. maybe he trades some players but i know he probably isnt done
Werd.
by focs on Dec 11, 2008 3:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Probably trade a bunch
Teahen will probably be dealt, possibly Guillen (not counting on that). And don’t forget Greinke for Franceour.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 3:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
only way guillen is traded
A) if the royals eat at least half his salary
B) if nothing is given back in return
by royalsreview on Dec 11, 2008 3:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd take (B)
In a heartbeat
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 3:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I've been preaching B) since at least August
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 3:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
is C) all of the above
an option
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Dec 12, 2008 2:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's going to be sad when it's finally done and all we have left to do
is argue over batting order.
by Top Ramen on Dec 11, 2008 2:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
there'll be a stupid Hillman quote to argue about
every week or so as well
can’t forget that
by royalsreview on Dec 11, 2008 2:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 3:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We still have Gload!!!!!!!!!
and TPJ for that matter
Mike Jacobs you're 2009 AL MVP
by eboston on Dec 11, 2008 3:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i want to see a TPJ vs. Farns Rec-Specs goggles showdown on the mound....
who can fire the straightest, hardest fastball? kinda like a circus act type of deal.
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Dec 12, 2008 2:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What the hell
wheres all the Furcal rumors at today
Werd.
by focs on Dec 11, 2008 3:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Gammons
On the radio today said he thought Furcal would sign with KC for what its worth
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 3:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Just to clarify
That is his speculation, not some inside info or a source telling him that, right?
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 3:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Probably his speculation
Based on inside info he has
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 3:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
gload
I don’t think there is any way he makes the team. Who is he in for? non tendered. And then all of this is worth while.
In the Royals game of life, Neifi Perez is the rake.
by Matty486 on Dec 11, 2008 3:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
You can't non-tender a guy who has a guaranteed major league contract for the coming season.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 3:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
not what i meant
I meant just released. sorry about that.
In the Royals game of life, Neifi Perez is the rake.
by Matty486 on Dec 11, 2008 3:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hope so
The bench could be
Buck
Teahen
utility IFer
Gload
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 3:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If There Is
A god (help me here, DY and BrR) the bench will be :
C Buck or Pena
UI German or Callaspo if MI acquired
Teahen 4 Corner guy
Shealey 1B/DH
If Hoagie is traded then Teahen moves to RF, of course. I don’t care who takes that bench slot if this happens.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 12, 2008 12:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I've been away and missed a lot; here are my thoughts
1) NY and I have had debates in the past about the relative merit of putting all your eggs in one basket; i.e., I’ve been in favor of signing one impact bat that you KNOW will produce, even if said bat costs 15 or 18 million. I think some of the misguided moves of this off-season sorta, indirectly, make my point. Mediocre players simply cost too much, and probably should be avoided, if possible. Unfortunately, Moore is impatiently trying to contend in 2009-10 instead of the more realistic 2011-2013 timeframe, and his farm system still lacks the depth needed to “fill in” the roster with mediocre players, so he is overpaying for them on the market.
2) I am happy that Glass may be increasing payroll to at least near the level I think his market can support – I still say the Royals should have a payroll somewhere in the mid 80 million range in 09. Mind you, I wouldn’t say this if Glass himself wasn’t on the record as saying he was content to break even and not make a profit, and had the Royals not turned a significant profit during both 2007 and 2008. A normal return on investment is about 10%; so with Glass saying he does not require the team to be profitable, that adds a good 10 million to the payroll they could theoretically support each year, because his original investment was around 100 million.
3) I think it is pretty clear that Moore believes this team is closer to contending than most other experts do. While I find that pretty hard to justify, I certainly hope he is correct.
Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!
by loyal2sdad on Dec 11, 2008 3:03 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
+1
Agree on all three points
Re: (1) this reminds me of how we couldn’t afford Jermaine Dye, but we got Neifi Perez, Michael Tucker and Brent Mayne, who made as much as Dye.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 3:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think that GMDM
knows he can win 81 games. This coupled with the payroll may help to open up the books in the near future. We’ll have some Moose, Hosmer, Giavotella, PITCHERS, and then have money to fill in the wholes and come out under where we are now with the ability to inflate the payroll. It looks like a plan in the making.
Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.
by 306008 on Dec 12, 2008 9:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
if furcal signs
this site may crash
by royalsreview on Dec 11, 2008 3:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Is that a Furcal DUI joke?
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 3:06 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 3:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
can't wait for this dude to hit the town with callaspo
by royalsreview on Dec 11, 2008 4:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
like I said months ago
make sure and leave the K before the players do
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 7:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd bet a paycheck it doesn't happen
I think we are engaging in some very understandable wishful thinking. Given the day’s events, it is a needed defense mechanism.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 3:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It needs to happen sooner rather than later
Mike Jacobs you're 2009 AL MVP
by eboston on Dec 11, 2008 3:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, you're that confident that the Royals will sign Furcal?
Why? What am I missing?
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 3:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Or it could be
That he’s so happy he just gives his whole paycheck to the Salvation Army
by labbadabba on Dec 11, 2008 3:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why couldn't the 70M payroll be GM Speak?
Glass is in a good spot financially maybe GMDM feels KC spot to contend is now rather than later.
It takes 46 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip 'em the bird.
by kcscoliny on Dec 11, 2008 3:17 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
So you are guessing (without support) that Glass would be fine with a $88M payroll?
It is possible, but I think it is unlikely. If you think it is likely, why?
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 3:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think it is likely
but I don’t think it is entirely unlikely. KC has a new stadium coming and has an opportunity with a rebuilding youth organization to build a longterm winner. Maybe Glass sees that? Also look at KC’s overall organization Glass’s NW Arkansas team is the gem of AA ball there is gonna be talent at the upper levels of the Royals minor league levels soon and Glass is doing well with his personal finances. You say that an owner doesn’t put his own personal money in a team but if he is doing better financially he is more apt to spend some extra do ray mi thats just true no matter how you look at it.
KC has an opportunity to build a longterm success with the rise in talent on the lower levels and maybe Glass/GMDM think now is just as good a time as ever to make that jump. Alot of these deals are also short term liability with the exception of a Furcal deal if that would happen.
It takes 46 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip 'em the bird.
by kcscoliny on Dec 11, 2008 3:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
KC has a new stadium coming?
Those renovations don’t have anywhere ear the revenue impact of a new stadium.
I’m sorry, but this sounds like wishcasting. I hope it happens, but it isn’t realistic.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 3:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We were sold
by the Royals as seeing 90% of the revenue boost of a new stadium.
They have to live up to that or have hell to pay IMO
by GoBabies!! on Dec 11, 2008 3:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"hell to pay"
What does that mean? Jackson county residents are going to be grumpy? Grump all you want. It ain’t happening, and no one should have swallowed that line of bull.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 3:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The renovations are still going to make Glasses original 96M over 300M that is solid.
I think it is realistic for these reasons.
The Dodgers haven’t been a team to offer more than 2 years let alone the 4 years Furcal wants.
The BlueJays are having budget contraints just based on the Canadian currency versus the Dollar.
The A’s are the chief competition and would put them in the lead myself but its not like they have endless amounts of money either in fact they are in pretty similar spot financially as KC. New stadium trying to fill it with fans but they are also linked to DeRosa, Giambi and Randy Johnson.
It takes 46 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip 'em the bird.
by kcscoliny on Dec 11, 2008 3:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't the Canadian Dollar
Pretty strong compared to the US dollar right now?
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 4:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Very
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 4:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I heard someone on the radio
yesterday say that it just dived with the rest of the international market? No?
by I need more Esteban on Dec 11, 2008 4:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Everything is diving, but the Candian dollar is still worth more than the US$
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 4:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Really??? Hmm
its down 20% for the year. $1 canadian was worth 1.01 January 1, 08 today its worth .82
It takes 46 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip 'em the bird.
by kcscoliny on Dec 11, 2008 4:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
$1.82!
I thought the Canadian dollar was still strong against the US$
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 4:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
thats $.82
It takes 46 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip 'em the bird.
by kcscoliny on Dec 11, 2008 4:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
$11.82?
Wow!
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 4:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bluejays Team Value
It takes 46 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip 'em the bird.
by kcscoliny on Dec 11, 2008 4:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
crap it cut it off
It takes 46 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip 'em the bird.
by kcscoliny on Dec 11, 2008 4:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Do you have a Royals team value graph?
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 4:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Correct
take it from me… the Canadian dollar was very strong (although it never exceeded the U.S. dollar, not for very long), relatively to the rest of the post-Trudeau era, but it’s taken a dive again, at least relative to the dollar, as others have known.
I love it here, but between the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and the currency, post-Trudeau Canada often resembles a politically correct Mexico.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 8:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
US Currency Value
The US Dollar made a huge comeback over the last 3-4 months. As traders unwound their trades from overseas they went back into dollars, pushing the demand back up, thus making it more expensive to buy dollars. So it came back. It’s still not as strong as it was though. Plus, part of the reason for the rise in oil prices was the weak dollar because it buys less oil. So the same barrel costs you more. The rise in the Dollar has coincided with oil prices dropping back to low levels.
by AxDxMx on Dec 11, 2008 4:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
From ESPN
Mike (New York): What’s going to be the biggest surprise of the off-season?
Karl Ravech: royals getting furcal and becoming a threat in the al central
by djk royal on Dec 11, 2008 3:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the info
I’ll give my take on it now: if Karl Ravech says it, it must be true!
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 3:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My thanks was genuine
I’ve spent so much time yacking about this that I haven’t been checking MLBTR or any of the talking heads. I appreciate the heads up.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 3:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well then you are welcome.
I’ll say this at the risk of being mocked by many but with Furcal the Royals could realistically contend in 2009. 89 games won the division last year. The addition of Crisp and Furcal would improve the depth of this team tremendously both offensively and defensively.
The Royals for once would have the potential to be above average in pitching and defense and a chance at being average on offense. The fact that he accomplished this while simultaneously building the farm system would deserve major kudos.
by djk royal on Dec 11, 2008 4:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll say this at the risk of being mocked by many but with Furcal the Royals could realistically contend in 2009.
I think that depends significantly on how much these 3 signings have improved the bullpen.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 4:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think they could do it without furcal
but he obviously makes it easier as our top of the lineup would be HELL ON WHEELS!!
Furcal
Crisp
DeJesus
Although i think I like Aviles more in the 2 hole. 2 leadoff type guys… what a problem to have with crisp and furcal.
by AxDxMx on Dec 11, 2008 4:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
except that Aviles was super lucky on BABIP and still only OBPed .333 against RHP
…with a .313 batting average. I’ll take the under.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 8:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Batting Orders Revisited
Against RHP:
Crisp CF (because it is inevitable and he’s a SH) CF
Furcal SS
DDJ LF
Hoagie RF (because he’d be a big baby otherwise)
A-Gor 3B
Jacobs DH
Butler 1B
Aviles 2B
Buck/Pena
Against LHP:
Crisp CF (see above)
Aviles 2B
DDJ LF
Hoagie RF
Furcal SS
Butler DH
A-Gor 3B
Olivo C
Shealey 1B
This leaves a bench of Buck/Pena, Callaspo, Shealy/Jacobs and Teahen. Against RHP’s, I find a lot of playing time for Teahen somehow. Hoagie’s nagging injuries would usually oblige; I’d keep him out of the DH slot and even on the DL as much as possible. Maier on the bench would be a better option.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 12, 2008 12:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The difference between Ramram's '08 and Farnsworth's projected '09
is around 2 wins. that pretty much cancels out the most optimistic Crisp upgrade projections.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 8:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
it would probably be better to compare
Farnsworth’s projected ‘09 vs Ramirez’s projected ‘09. They won’t be the same, but it will be closer.
by kcdc1 on Dec 11, 2008 8:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
almost one win
I compared the years that I did, though, because we’re talking about the team improving over /08. Ramirez probably will regress, but he’s not bck — Farns, a below-replacement pitcher, is in his place.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 8:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good sign that a few pundits seem to think this
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 4:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
what is this a response to?
no offense meant, just can’t line it up with anything!
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 8:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Gammons and Ravech both predicting that Furcal will end up with the Royals
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 9:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
what is Ravech's toupee reporting?
that’s who I REALLY trust!
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Dec 12, 2008 2:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Click the "up" button
Royals, NBA, Golden Hurricane, Hawkeyes, Chiefs, and KU basketball, in that order.
by Rowyal on Dec 12, 2008 9:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ok
you probably kill my teacher’s salary, except how could you make money when you type 50,000 words on this site per day.
In the Royals game of life, Neifi Perez is the rake.
by Matty486 on Dec 11, 2008 3:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You'd be surprised
What am I missing, guys? Why do you think the Royals will get Furcal? It must be more than optimism and a gut feeling. What don’t I know?
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 3:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Us = Positive Outlook
You = Negative Outlook
Werd.
by focs on Dec 11, 2008 3:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No
Realistic outlook. I try to look at things realistically so I don’t get blindsided one way or another. So your prediction is just based on optimism? You want him to get signed. I get that. I want it too.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 3:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok Realistically
Realistically he has declined the A’s offer
Realistically he has a 2 year offer with an option from the dodgers which he doesnt want
Realistically the blue jays are probably hardly in it
Realistically the royals are said to be the front runners even in the situation they are in from a lot of people
Werd.
by focs on Dec 11, 2008 3:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Things will come back to earth soon. It may take up to a week.
The payroll budget is not infinite.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 3:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But what I said was "Realistic" though right
Werd.
by focs on Dec 11, 2008 3:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and realistically
maybe he really, really liked GMDM from their time together in ATL and sees a future in Royal Blue working for his boy DM?
by GoBabies!! on Dec 11, 2008 3:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and realistically
No one on the corner has swagga like us
Werd.
by focs on Dec 11, 2008 3:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Players sign with a team because they want to play under a particular GM?
Since when?
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 3:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
since the royals signed every ex-brave
Werd.
by focs on Dec 11, 2008 3:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You're kidding, right?
Most of them have been waiver claims and minor league contract signings. That has nothing to do with a friendly relationship. Offer those guys $30K and they’ll come running. Then there were the trades, which obviously the players had no say in.
So who are the former Braves that Moore has wooed to come here and who agreed to sign here over other teams because they were such good friends with Dayton Moore? Mahay? Have any evidence of that? Anyone else?
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 3:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Farnsworth!
HoRam!
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 3:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Think Adam Dunn future Bluejay...lol
It takes 46 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip 'em the bird.
by kcscoliny on Dec 11, 2008 3:38 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
+1
that would be funny
I’m not sure we should feel very smug about J. P. after today, but ymmv
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 3:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They were actual arguments, yes
I appreciate that. It’s much better than your gut or optimism. But there is little reason to believe the Royals can afford to eve match the A’s offer (which is still on the table) much less top it. And the Dodgers are likely to up their offer. And then there’s the Blue jays.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 3:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I hope I see farnsworth's wife around the park.
Werd.
by focs on Dec 11, 2008 3:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The best only good thing about his signing.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 3:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Pic?
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 3:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
its towards the end of the first thread of the day
Werd.
by focs on Dec 11, 2008 3:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bizarre
Why is the kid on the right photoshopped?
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 3:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That kid is like 10
and a huge METROSEXUAL already..
Werd.
by focs on Dec 11, 2008 3:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Matt, you have mail
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 3:49 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The absolute worst part about this Farnsworth signing is....
He’s guaranteed to be dogshit, and we will continue to run him out there. Because we owe him 9 million dollars. Just wait and see how many games this guy loses us the first couple months of the season. To me it’s not even about the money, it’s about the awful numbers he’s going to put up over many games because we owe him SO DAMN MUCH MONEY.
realistically speaking
by slayor on Dec 11, 2008 3:49 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
everyone said the same about HoRam
OH HE’s gonna lose so many games for us
Werd.
by focs on Dec 11, 2008 3:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They also said the same about Tomko
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 3:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
actually, McClure will struggle to get the Prof to be as good as Mr. Shultz
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 8:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dude, we didn't pay HoRam 9 mil over 2 seasons.
He was a freebie. If he sucked, we could have dumped him.
realistically speaking
by slayor on Dec 11, 2008 3:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ya ya ya
im just saying give the guy a chance..
Werd.
by focs on Dec 11, 2008 3:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If it was like, 1 year, 3 million that would be fine.
But WTF, afaik Farnsworth has never had two good back to back years. If his ERA is below 4 it will be due to an act of god.
realistically speaking
by slayor on Dec 11, 2008 3:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
God is Dayton Moore's close friend
So we’ve got that going for us.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 3:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
lol
I’m with you, slayor, I’m just laughing because yesterday we were arguing over whether 1 or 1.5 would be OK for Farns. If you had said he signed for 1/3 we would have been furious…
now it woudl be a relief
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 8:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Moore has given him a chance
I’m not going to pretend that he’s likely to be good, or even average.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 3:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Im not saying he is gonna do good
im just saying none of us know what he is gonna do.. give him a fucking chance then bitch about then
Werd.
by focs on Dec 11, 2008 3:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
When a GM signs a bad player for too much money, I think that's a good time to bitch
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 3:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Think about how much we'd bitch if he gave David Eckstein this deal
note: David Eckstein is a better baseballplayer than Kyle Farnsworth at this point
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 8:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not bitching about Farnsworth, it's not his fault he sucks and GMDM still handed him 9 milli
It’s Moore’s fault for thinking we need to pay 9 mil over two years for an over the hill fireballer with lackluster control that lacks movement on his fastball.
realistically speaking
by slayor on Dec 11, 2008 3:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Huh?
If Farnsworth sucks, it’s gotta be at least MOSTLY his fault, right?!
by kabrink on Dec 11, 2008 7:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the devil made him serve those meatballs
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 8:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
Taking a cheap flyer on a guy who you think has some talent makes sense. I have no problem with the Waechter signing. If it doesn’t work out, no big deal, release him. If Farnsworth sucks, it really hurts given the investment.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 3:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm excited about Doug... Waechter profiles good for the bullpen...
90-93MPH fastball, very good slider – he can be successful with those two pitches. I think he could be a solid pickup. His numbers were skewed last season due to a 5 run outing and one other pretty awful one I believe.
realistically speaking
by slayor on Dec 11, 2008 3:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yea
That signing actually looks pretty decent
At least in comparison to the others
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 4:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
it defines "taking a flyer on a guy"
as opposed to…
oh forget it
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 11, 2008 8:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I call it
The Gload Effect
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 4:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
NY
would you be offended if the royals signed furcal and i said
HAHA NY FUCK YOU I WAS RIGHT HAHAHAHA
Werd.
by focs on Dec 11, 2008 3:55 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Can we just give away Guillen and sign Adam Dunn instead?
Please jesus? One time baby?
realistically speaking
by slayor on Dec 11, 2008 3:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely not
Dunn’s OBP is WAAAYY to high for this team
Werd.
by focs on Dec 11, 2008 3:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He clogs the bases
And he doesnt’ care about baseball!
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 11, 2008 4:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I mean as long as you wouldnt take it personal.
you can do the same to me if we dont sign him
Werd.
by focs on Dec 11, 2008 3:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Please do
seriously. I’m looking forward to being wrong.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2008 3:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
(just don't do it for too long)
You gloat a little. I’ll apologize profusely and say I was stupid to doubt you.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong