Average wOBA by Position

Yes, the dastardly Sox site has done something that was asked about last week when Fangraphs added wOBA -- the offensive stat we should all be using. Thanks to Sky for pointing it out and also for agreeing with me that Colin made a mistake with the 3B adjustment. The methodology isn't perfect (to be more precise one would need to judge each position in relation to league average wOBA year-to-year) but it isn't meant to be. It's rough. He has a little chart that includes adjustments for defense, but I'm not going to deal with the headache of arguing about that here (the positional adjustment thing is bad enough, sometimes). So... here are the averages Colin has, and then how some Royals (and new Royals) did in relation to those averages in 2008 -- this is retrospective, not predictive. I'm using StatCorner's version of wOBA because, among other things, it's park-adjusted (wOBA*). Some guys are listed in more than one position for obvious reasons.

C .306
Olivo .313 (+.07)
Buck .300 (-.06)

SS .326
TPJ .189 (-.137)
Avilanche .364 (+.038)

2B .335
Grudz .345 (+.010)
Callaspo .341 (+.06)
German .294 (-.041)

CF .335
DDJ .361 (+.026)
Gathright .277 (-.058)
Crisp .334 ( -.01)
MITCH .288 (-.047)

3B .335
Gordon .351 (+.016)
Teahen .315 (-.020)

RF/LF .354
Teahen .315 (-.039)
Guillen .329 (-.025)
DDJ .361 (+.07)

1B .364
Gload .304 (-.060)
Butler .326 (-.038)
Jacobs .342 (-.022)

about 1 month ago devil_fingers Comment 19 comments 2 recs |

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Great stuff

I think I asked for this. Thanks for finding it.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 3, 2008 2:13 PM EST 0 recs

always thinking of you, Johnny Drama

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 3, 2008 2:18 PM EST up 0 recs

You be Johnny Drama

I’ll be Turtle. Actually, I don’t much like that show and find all of the characters annoying.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 3, 2008 2:41 PM EST up 0 recs

it's pretty lame

I love Johnny Drama though. I know, it’s hard to imagine me enjoying a loudmouth idiot… I’m not sure how Kevin Dillon does it, but he really takes the character into Bill McNeil territory. Not that Dillon is on Hartman’s level in general, but I love the guy overacting as an actor who overacts.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 3, 2008 2:56 PM EST up 0 recs

No DH?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 3, 2008 3:02 PM EST 0 recs

2B=3B=CF is interesting and a bit surprising

I wonder how this compares to other years. But now I’m asking too much.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 3, 2008 3:03 PM EST 0 recs

The Sox guy has 3B doing something else -- .345 avg

that was what Sky thinks is a mistake. One of the questionable things is that this wasn’t this year’s offensive average for each position, but is (I think) simply based on a realignment of wOBA over a certain number of ABs with Tango’s positional adjustments. So it isn’t quite what you’re looking for, I don’t think. I assume you’re looking for something like B-R’s average for each position each year.

But the difference gets into all Tango’s convoluted arguments for why 2b=3b=cf, which I admittedly don’t completely follow. One issue with doing it this way is that I don’t think he gets to those adjustments by just considering offense or defense alone, but by the talent pool of both.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 3, 2008 3:31 PM EST up 0 recs

One of the questionable things is that this wasn’t this year’s offensive average for each position, but is (I think) simply based on a realignment of wOBA over a certain number of ABs with Tango’s positional adjustments. So it isn’t quite what you’re looking for, I don’t think. I assume you’re looking for something like B-R’s average for each position each year.

Yeah, I’d really like to see the actual positional averages, as opposed to taking the overall average and running it through positional adjustments to come up with what the positional averages “should” be. In short, actual data is always better than theoretical data.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 3, 2008 5:05 PM EST up 0 recs

I don't think it's that it's theoretical data

it’s just a difference way of thinking about how to evaluate a player.

It shouldn’t take me too long to generate what you’re looking for. I’ll see if I can get to it later this week.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 3, 2008 7:17 PM EST up 0 recs

I don’t think it’s that it’s theoretical data
it’s just a difference way of thinking about how to evaluate a player.

Well, it is running actual data (wOBA) through a theoretical model of positional adjustment. Even though this model is based, in part, on empirical evidence, it is inherently theoretical. Therefore this model of “average wOBA by position” is inherently theoretical. It’s not worthless or baseless. They underlying theory is sound. But actual data showing the true average by position is much more valuable and would show, dare I say, the true average wOBA by position.

It shouldn’t take me too long to generate what you’re looking for. I’ll see if I can get to it later this week.

Do you have all the necessary data on every player who played SS in 2008? Or are you going to have some minimum AB’s or games at the position cutoff?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Dec 3, 2008 7:49 PM EST up 0 recs

Couldn't you take the B-R splits by position

and plug them into the wOBA spreadsheet?

by Gopherballs on Dec 3, 2008 8:30 PM EST up 0 recs

i'm doing that right now

did someone else make a wOBA spreadsheet? The one Colin Wyers did for calculating WAR is OK, but isn’t comprehensive.

Anyone have any opinion on whether you prefer with or without reaching on error (I prefer it, because I’ve always wondered why the hittter got no credit for that) or with or without steals?

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 3, 2008 9:44 PM EST up 0 recs