Winter Meetings Day Two Open Thread
by royalsreview on Dec 9, 2008 11:53 AM EST
351 comments
Vegas baby, Vegas.
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If Greinke is traded to Atlanta
…it will include top prospects and genuinely good players. Francoeur might be involved, but certainly not as the centerpiece. Referring to it, even in rumor, as a Greinke-for-Francoeur trade is ridiculous.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 11:59 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
i wouldn't say its ridiculous
maybe misleading, but not ridiculous
by royalsreview on Dec 9, 2008 12:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the resemblance between
the F-Gut euphoria followed by the Jacobs horror and the excitement about the Milton rumors followed by this is not reassuring
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 12:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You say Hochevar, I say Hochevar
It’s not like the Royals are considering trading Greinke straight up for Francoeur. That would be ridiculous.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 12:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't everyone jazzed about the possible Russ Springer signing?
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 9, 2008 12:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
right, because DMGM only signs former Braves!!111
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 12:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the braves hats and uniforms are so damn ugly
by royalsreview on Dec 9, 2008 12:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Mark Buehrle made fun of that facial hair, too
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 12:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
we signed russ springer?
Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.
by 306008 on Dec 9, 2008 12:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
no, not yet, I don't think
He said he’d never blog for Royals Review anyway
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 12:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I have to say that
the Olivo pickup makes less sense to me when I see guys like David Ross getting 2/$3M. I wonder what Zaun, Bard, and Valentin will get? Even if you’re sick of Buck, all those guys are way better than Olivo.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 12:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
thats an absolute lie
you think a .290 OBP grows on trees
by royalsreview on Dec 9, 2008 12:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We're close to signing Professor Farnsworth
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 9, 2008 12:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Royals close to signing Farnsworth
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 9, 2008 12:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That link is an example of why people consider baseball fans
NERDS
It takes 46 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip 'em the bird.
by kcscoliny on Dec 9, 2008 12:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, The Infamous
Rick Roll. He’s still rolling.
http://www.rickastley.co.uk/
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 9, 2008 12:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Royals asking about Michael Young
He’s awesome on defense! HE WON A GOLD GLOVE!
Young is owed $80 million over the next five seasons.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 9, 2008 12:28 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
This is why these rumors have little value
Like the Royals can afford 5/80 on anyone. They probably wouldn’t spend that on ARod or Pujols.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 12:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe the Rangers will eat $79 million?
That would more sense.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 9, 2008 12:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I am amazed that anyone would seriously consider trading for Michael Young
I am sure the Rangers would happily foist him on anyone willing to eat his ridiculous salary, but still.
by DarthYoshi on Dec 9, 2008 12:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
oh
and I loved that McToolface refers to Young as a “shortstop extraordinaire.”
by DarthYoshi on Dec 9, 2008 12:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I love that Texas figured out they might need to trade him
in the first year of his horrific 5/$80M extension… yeah… let’s see, Marcel has him as a 0.6 hitter, CHONE as a -9 defender = -8, let’s say (generous). Let’s call that -.75 wins for generosity (almost as much as not adjusting for this bandbox park), then give him the +2.5 AL RL bonus. Let’s pretend he’ll play every game next season. That’s a 2.5 WAR player. Check the salary chart: over 5 years, a 2.5 WAR player is worth $43.5M given a normal decline curve.
Nice job, Texas!
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 12:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
You think they would have learned something after, I dunno, the Chan Ho Park fiasco.
by DarthYoshi on Dec 9, 2008 12:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I like that the extension is just starting
just in time for the steep part of the decline curve!
I also like that (at the time) A-Rod’s contract was too big, especially for them. And then, years later, they give a similarly huge (although obviously not as big) contract to a guy who is older, and far, far inferior as a player.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 12:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
but arod wasn't clutch
and wasn’t a good clubhouse guy
by royalsreview on Dec 9, 2008 12:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wish he was still in Texas
somehow, the whole Madonna thing would be even funnier there. Can you imagine them starting a massive Kabbalah (or, as a rabbinical scholar once said it to me: “Kabbalah with a ‘C’”) Center in Arlington.
I think A-Rod is a potentially HUGE unintentional comedy underdog. HoF player + cults + multiple therapists + “she-male types” = awesome.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 12:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What Is It
With guys named Philip Berg?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Berg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phillip_J._Berg
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 9, 2008 1:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Career UZR/150 at SS:
Overrated Defensive Liability Derek Jeter: -5.9
Underrated Team Leader Michael Young: -12.0
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 12:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
in his defense, he volunteered to move from 2b to SS....
it’s not like he was brought up as a savior SS like Fist Pump Jeter.
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Dec 9, 2008 7:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
it is an unfair comparison
Jeter’s much, much better and always has been, fashionable overrating or underrating of him aside
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 8:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Neyer's at it again:
Jeremy (Salt Lake City): I don’t mean to ruin your day, Rob, but have you seen this Francoeur for Greinke rumor? /snicker
Rob Neyer: (12:30 PM ET ) I have. And while there’s a part of me that wishes it could ruin my day, I’m afraid I’ve pretty much given up on the current management team already.
by djk royal on Dec 9, 2008 1:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Poor analysis by Neyer
Allowing yourself to get clouded to that extent in future analysis is unprofessional. Neyer deserves every bit of criticism as an analyst, at this point.
by Royals Nation on Dec 9, 2008 1:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Understatement of the century
Founder of the Johnny Giavotella fan club.
by doublestix on Dec 9, 2008 2:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Is Rob Neyer ever postive?
He’s such a Negative Nancy.
by Royal from Queens on Dec 9, 2008 8:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Indians are close to signing Kerry Wood
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 9, 2008 2:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Let's see what they pay him
Marcel has him as about a .5 WAR reliever, times 2 pLI for closer leverage = 1 WAR player = 1 $5.2, 2/$8.3. I’m leery of using pLI quite like that for future performance… But if they plan on using him as a closer and get him for, say 1/3 or 2/5, that’s a good deal for the team.`
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 2:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i really trust shapiro to make a good move
by royalsreview on Dec 9, 2008 2:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
he got one hell of a year out of Joe Freaking Borowski a couple years back
I’m pulling for Jensen Lewis to win the role.
Yes, he’s on my fantasy team.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 2:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But Borowski in 2008
He just forgot how to save. He forgot how to close. He lost that special closing magic mentality. Oh, wait….
by Royals Nation on Dec 9, 2008 3:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
C'MON DAMNIT
Lets get the show on the road
Werd.
by focs on Dec 9, 2008 2:40 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Greinke-Francoeur
1:38pm: ESPN’s Steve Phillips says there’s nothing to this rumor.
He’s as credible, not credible as any rumor monger.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 2:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I was never worried
but now that Phillips says there’s nothing to it, I’m betting a bit nervous
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 2:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
1:39pm: ESPN's John Kruk asks "who is Zack Greinke?"
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 9, 2008 2:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I call bullshit
not even John Kruk is that stupid
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 2:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Your faith in Kruk is misplaced
I don’t think he even follows baseball anymore. He’s there for comic relief.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 2:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My favorite John Kruk moment
January 2005,
John Kruk: With the Yankees offense, Randy Johnson is going to win 30 games. He’s going to go 30-0!
Any other Kruk moments people would like to share?
by Royal from Queens on Dec 9, 2008 8:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
wow
Kruk must have really had the ball to say that.
Founder of the Johnny Giavotella fan club.
by doublestix on Dec 9, 2008 8:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think you can top his quote:
“You can’t pull fat”
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
by buddyball on Dec 9, 2008 9:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Read for yourself
Kruk the same genuine guy off camera
‘’The hardest part is remembering the names and remembering what teams they’re on. I couldn’t tell you who plays for the Royals right now if my life depended on it. Thank God it’s not dependent on it.’’
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 9, 2008 3:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
WOoooooooooooooooooo!!
Steve Phillips : There is nothing to the Jeff Francouer – Zack Greinke rumor
Werd.
by focs on Dec 9, 2008 2:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
That's What GMDM
Wants everyone to think.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 9, 2008 5:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Riiiiiiight...
because there is such a crazy trade market for Jeff Francoeur right now. Better keep your cards close to the vest on that one.
Maybe he just wants to invite more phone calls from other teams with crazy offers for Greinke. If I were a GM and heard about the rumor, I’d be on the phone in a heartbeat offering whatever random OF I could to Dayton.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 9, 2008 5:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Whoever thought
Steve Phillips would be the voice of reason?
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 9, 2008 2:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I have a feeling the Boston Globe guy was just recycling an old rumor
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 2:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't think this rumor amounted to much
But now that Steve Phillips says there is nothing to it, I have a bad feeling it is about to go down. Nothing he ever says is true.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 9, 2008 2:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Jinx!
Now that Steve Phillips in on the tube, this is starting to feel like the awesome thread to end all threads of 2008: the Draft Day thread.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 2:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Unfortunately, expecting "reporters"
to behave ethically is akin to expecting politicians to do the same.
Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!
by loyal2sdad on Dec 9, 2008 2:44 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
No
but i think we just signed some CC Sabathia guy.. never heard of him
Werd.
by focs on Dec 9, 2008 2:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
bad body, fat boy
not worth worrying about. Organizational filler. Maybe a LOOGY.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 2:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He was a Brave for one year!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Obsession! Killing! The! Royals!
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 2:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
half this roster is either a former brave
or… weirdly
a former mariner
we need to increase our awareness of BOTH trends
by royalsreview on Dec 9, 2008 2:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wait, I thought it was half Braves, half Mariners, half Rockies
And 100% born again Christian! Four trends that are killing a once proud franchise.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 3:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
half cajun as well
I wanna know what love is, I want you to show me
by LeoBloom on Dec 9, 2008 3:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
All of these trends that are killing the Royals are becoming overwhelming
How did the Royals possibly win 75 games with all of these freakish obsessions of Dayton Moore?
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 3:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
cajuns don't age well
I wanna know what love is, I want you to show me
by LeoBloom on Dec 9, 2008 3:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
When we do
I will prepare for the parade on the Plaza
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 9, 2008 2:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
with hillman marching the boys in in military formation
followed by a “See You at the Pole” rally
by royalsreview on Dec 9, 2008 2:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
only the flag will hear our prayers
I wanna know what love is, I want you to show me
by LeoBloom on Dec 9, 2008 3:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
From Rotoworld - this made me laugh:
WFAN’s Sweeney Murti says the Braves are in serious discussions with the White Sox regarding Jermaine Dye.
It had been previously reported that the Braves had interest, so this is believable. Obviously, a Dye acquisition would clear the way for the Braves to trade Jeff Francoeur to the Royals for Zack Greinke, Joakim Soria and 1,000,000 shares of Walmart stock
by jsolo on Dec 9, 2008 2:59 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
must be gleeman
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 3:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So long as we don't have to give up Jimmy Gobble
I am fine with that deal
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 9, 2008 3:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
is this the lamest winter meetings ever?
seriously…
someone DO SOMETHING
I wanna know what love is, I want you to show me
by LeoBloom on Dec 9, 2008 3:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
be careful what you wish for
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 3:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
K-Rod signs with the Mets
3 years $37 million
Pretty reasonable deal IMO, even if K-Rod is a bit overrated.
Also, our old buddy Grudz is drawing interest from Philly and San Diego
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 9, 2008 3:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
surely
The Giants will make a play for him. I mean, he IS over 35 and available so he meats their requisites…
by GoBabies!! on Dec 9, 2008 3:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno
they paid him like a 2.75 WAR player… Now, straight-up, without leverage, there’s no way. Of coures, there’s not way any reliever is that good without leverage taken into account (again, not a measure of ability, but the quality times the leverage of the innings). He’s young, so it’s a bit early to call for a decline, but still.
I’ll just use ERA-RAR since it’s kinder to him. Marcels projects him for 9.8 ERA-RAR. “Standard” closer bonus for LI is 2 — that’s 19.6 ERA-RAR (Justin Inaz has him at 19.8). That’s not even a 2 WAR player. I guess if you think (and it’s not unreasonable) that he won’t decline at all, and we round up to 2 WAR (which he isn’t, quite), then he gets 6 WAR over the next three seasons… like a decline-phase 2.5 WAR player, whose market value would be about 3/$33.
So even giving him all the breaks, he’s still not quite worth it. Not a mind-numbingly awful deal, I guess, but I wouldn’t call it smart.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 3:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
PS
Using the same method (ERARAR*2) on Soria, he does project as a 2.5 WAR player next year.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 3:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it is a case where this is a market value contract, but not a true value contract. Closers are over-valued in the market. They get paid more than their contribution is really worth. But that’s what it costs to get them. It is standard, inside the box thinking.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 3:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, that's what the market value thing does
what an extra $4M to a team that gave Luis Castillo 4/36 or whatever they gave him
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 3:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
I don’t believe in investing a ton of money in the closer position. But if you’re going to do it, and Minaya pretty much has to after last September’s debacle, that’s not a terrible contract.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 9, 2008 3:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"Not a mind-numbingly awful deal, I guess, but I wouldn’t call it smart."
Classic Omar Minaya, right there.
by Royals Nation on Dec 9, 2008 3:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I am stunned it is that low actually
by royalsreview on Dec 9, 2008 4:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+10M
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 9, 2008 5:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yawn.
Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.
by 306008 on Dec 9, 2008 3:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
lipsmacks.
Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.
by 306008 on Dec 9, 2008 3:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So what # supplemental pick do we get for Grudz?
Around 85?
Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.
by 306008 on Dec 9, 2008 3:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
should be in the 40-45 range
Founder of the Johnny Giavotella fan club.
by doublestix on Dec 9, 2008 3:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
do you think there is any interest in Jack Wilson?
kind of a Greg Gagne move
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
by buddyball on Dec 9, 2008 3:39 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Here's a serious development...MLBTR
This afternoon we have word from a source out in the Dominican Republic, where free agent pitcher Runelvys Hernandez is pitching. The Orioles are one of several teams to inquire on Hernandez, who is apparently reaching the mid-90s with his heater. Contrary to previous reports, Hernandez was not suspended.
There’s a lot of jokes to be made here.
by Bart41 on Dec 9, 2008 3:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
His resting heart rate is also reaching the mid-90's
Someone will sign him to a minor league deal. He might get a cup of coffee in the majors and fail horribly, as his weight approaches 300 lbs.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 3:53 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Sign him as Sabathia insurance
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 3:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
those buffets aren't going to devour themselves
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 3:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I like the Orioles chances of landing Runelvys
If they trade for Pie.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 9, 2008 4:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bada bing!
Only if they can also sign Veal in the Rule V 5 (5) draft…
I hereby resign from this post.
by Home Run Tony Cogan on Dec 9, 2008 4:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think they are changing it to the Rule Cinco Draft
(as MLB attempts to reach out to the Latino fanbase)
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 4:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
neyer always had a rant about people using the roman numerals for no reason
or was it the other way around…
by royalsreview on Dec 9, 2008 4:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
always taking on the big issues
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 4:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking...
the Dominican might be looking for some reverse extradition. He’s the human famine.
by Bart41 on Dec 9, 2008 4:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
DM denies Greinke for Franceour rumors
“There’s nothing to the Greinke-Francoeur story,” he said with a smile, then went on his way.
Note that he did not call them a “lie” or “disturbing”. So does that mean they might actually be true?
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 9, 2008 4:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
In my mind, the trade has already been made
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 4:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
tick tick tick
how is this supposed to help me not be productive if nothing happens
by royalsreview on Dec 9, 2008 4:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yesterday there was almost no Royals news until after close of business. I think there will be more rumors and unconfirmed reports this evening about things that did/did not happen during the day today.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 4:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm going to make one up
Mark Teahen for Jonathan Sanchez
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 9, 2008 4:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Moore has yet to call it a lie
…so it might be true.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 4:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A source close to the Royals is whispering...
expecting to see it on MLBTR any minute
by Grace's Dad on Dec 9, 2008 6:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
if you want to raise your blood pressure, just read some of Moore's quotes from the links you provided
yeah, I know they’re spin, but the whole MIke Jacobs being a “power hitter in the middle of the lineup” and the Crisp acquisition meaning the Royals FINALLY have a “legit center fielder” (as opposed to DDJ, who’s only been worth about 6 more wins than Crisp the last three years).
I just remind myself that he’s just spinning. He’s a smart guy. He has to know that Jacobs sucks as anyhthing other than a platoon DH/pinch hitter, and that, even if he isn’t a “legit center fielder,” that DDJ is a far superior player to Crisp.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 4:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I was wondering about that Crisp quote too
DDJ was a good centerfielder who did bat at the top of the order
did GMDM just forget about that?
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
by buddyball on Dec 9, 2008 4:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
DDJ isn't a speedy base stealer
That’s what a lot of people think of as the best kind of top of the order guy.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 5:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And Coco
doesn’t fake injuries
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 9, 2008 5:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Coco's injuries are REAL and well earned
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 5:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Hives? GMAB with that…
JoGui was right, babies indeed.
by Top Ramen on Dec 9, 2008 5:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If he were going to fake an injury...
right after this would have been an ideal time. But he just kept on trotting out to center. That moose is lucky that Coco didn’t go all James Shields on him.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 9, 2008 5:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
diaper rash
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
by buddyball on Dec 9, 2008 5:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
well, he clearly didn't like DDJ's defense there too much
and, there is some stat support for DDJ’s dropoff (although bUZR [the Fangraphs version of UZR shows this year as the only year he’s been below average), and Crisp probably is better. He certainly has a better reputation… for whatever that’s worth (not much to me).
NYRoyal (among others) has written before that DMGM seems to have a sort of old-fashioned, almost naive view of offense and position players in general. OBP is important, but more important for some players than others. Same with power. And even defense (apparently it’s much more important in CF than at fist, where if Jacobs plays, he will give away more far more runs than CoCo could ever save). He seems to think of batting order in the same, old-fashioned way. Well, except that speed is apparently more valuable than OBP at the top of the order.
Now, models have shown that batting order isn’t all that important relative to who is in the order. But there are some things that are clearly wrong. And the notion that giving CoCo Crisp more bats that DDJ will help the offense just because he’s “faster” is clearly wrong.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 5:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If Crisp is leading off, I sure as hell hope DDJ bats second
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 5:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and then the problem is who should hit third against RHP
To me, it makes more sense (with the current roster, assuming Teahen doesn’t start) against RHPs to go
DDJ
Crisp
Gordon
Guillen/Butler (whichever. sigh)
Jacobs
Guillen/Butler
Aviles
Catcher
Callaspo
Gotta split up the lefties, although there’s a whole lotta double plays going on in that 4-6. But I’ve read a lot of stuff that indicates taht 1, 2, and 4 are all more important that 3 for scoring, so if Crisp does lead off, it’s not the end of the world:
Crisp
DDJ
Guillen/Butler
Gordon
Guillen/Butler
Jacobs
Aviles
Catcher
Callaspo
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 5:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I epxect DDJ will be relegated to the Joe Randa lineup spot
and we’ll have callaspo or teahen as the #2 hitter
by royalsreview on Dec 9, 2008 6:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Crisp is a far better defensive CF than DeJesus
“Defensive stats” be damned.
Ask 100 scouts who is better in CF and 100 would say Crisp.
Founder of the Johnny Giavotella fan club.
by doublestix on Dec 9, 2008 5:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
but how much better? like or dislike defensive stats, how do you quantify it?
Given that DDJ is 5-10 runs better on offense?
I don think the Royals are better off with DDJ in LF and Crisp in Center, particularly if Guillen is the one displacd, because DDJ will be really good in LF. But straight up, if I had to pick one of those guys to play center and lose the others, I’d pick DDJ.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 5:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I DO thinl that the Royals are better of with DDJ in LF and Crisp in CF...
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 5:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think part of Moore's decisionmaking process...
also focused on the thought that if the Royals picked up another corner OF or gave Teahen the starting LF spot (keeping DDJ in CF), and DDJ lost any significant time again to injury this year, then the Royals would be trotting either Maier or Gathright out there every night. Or, more importantly, the Royals would be putting Maier/Gathright in the 9 hole every night. Moore clearly thinks that the organization lacks almost ANY depth in quality, starting CF talent. (See also, Orlando, Paulo; acquisition.) And who can blame him for thinking that?
by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 9, 2008 5:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that makes sense
I should reiterate that I think Crisp is a better defensive CF than DDJ and makes the KC outifield better no whether it’s Teahen or Guillen who is displaced. But I think DDJ is clearly the overall more valuble player, even leaving aside their contracts.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 5:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely
And I think that if you put everything else aside, the Royals might be better off trading DDJ for a more “true” corner OFer (i.e. a lot more power, little less defense). Might. But when you add his contract to the equation, and DDJ’s contract is RIDICULOUSLY team-friendly (even playing him in a corner OF spot), then I just can’t see the Royals moving him…unless they can somehow find that “true” corner OFer with a nearly equally-friendly contract.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 9, 2008 5:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the previously mentioned, Jeffrey Francoeur
french heart?
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
by buddyball on Dec 9, 2008 5:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
it depends on how good you think DDJ will be in the corner
good defense stil counts over there. 2007 was the only year of the last 4 he didn’t hit well enough to be an average corner OF (that is, more than 7.5 runs above average). Now, I don’t think he’ll necessarily do that every year (the projections I’ve seen so far have him a few runs lower than that next yer), if you figure in him “only” being +7 runs in left, then he’s still average-to-above average in left. That’s worth at least $10M/yr on todays market. Inferior (yeah, I said it) players like Burrell, Ibanez, and Abreu might get even more than that on todays market.
By the way (those who don’t like defensive stats should avert their eyes), DDJ’s career bUZR/150 in LF is +21.8.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 5:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
what does BUZR/150 mean
really I don’t know.
Founder of the Johnny Giavotella fan club.
by doublestix on Dec 9, 2008 6:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
UZR is “Ultimate Zone Rating.” The older version that MLG (the creator) used data from STATS INC. I think he now has licensing agreements that prohibit him from sharing it publicly, at least as a whole.
He now is letting Fangraphs publish a version of UZR that uses data from Baseball Info Solutions (BIS) that Plus/Minus and PMR also use. Predictably, the two data sources give different results (one of the main [and acknowledged] problematic issues with defensive metrics at this point). So in discussions comparing the two, the “joke” is how to tell what we’re talking about. The “convention” starting to form is sUZR and bUZR. Insert jokes about whether it’s pronounced “Busser” or ’boozer," and garnish to taste.
Anyway, bUZR/150 is just how many plays above/below average a guy is in that position prorated per 150 games.
So it isn’t really predictive (or meant to be) in itself. I think it is pretty clear that we can take from this that DDJ has been really good in LF during his time playing there, as one would expect from a guy who’s been a pretty good defensive CF.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 6:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If Guillen Is
Patrolling RF next year, CC’s speed will have plenty of opportunities to run down balls in the RCF gap. I don’t care how good Guillen’s routes are (Moore’s answer to my question re Guillen in RF), he probably can’t even cover the zone out there, much less go out of it.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 9, 2008 5:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i'd take DDJ too
if including offense…i don’t think that is disputable. also, like i’ve said in the past, putting DDJ in LF likely helps him stay on the field for more games, and that is obviously good.
i’d just rather use scouts opinions for defense…and they all say crisp is a plus, if not plus-plus defender in CF. which kinda helps out in a huge ball park.
Founder of the Johnny Giavotella fan club.
by doublestix on Dec 9, 2008 6:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, most of the stats like him, too
it’s just weird… almost everyone who uses defensive stats agree they have a long way to go. see my stuff above about different data sources. It’s like batting average, except more fluctuations from true talent due to luck, park effects, etc. It needs a lot of regression and multiple data sources, although apparenlty if/when HIT f/x comes out, it will help a great deal (not that i know exactly what HIT f/x does).
But yeah, although not as precise as offensive stats (and here is something non-technical about the nature of inferential stats that helped even a math doofus like me), there is an analogy — lots of players can get hot with the bat for one year (Darin Erstad is one classic example), but you really need a few years data to get a read even on hitting. And the same is true for defense, except there are fewer statsistcal peripherals than in hitting (in hitting — BABIP, K/BB ratio, etc.). So the defensive stats guys all say that you really don’t start to get a grip on a guys true talent until after three years of data.
And like everything in baseball, the less data (and the less reliable the data is) you have, the more scouting is important. And the more data you have, the more it takes precedence over the data. It’s analogous (sorry) to judging the hitting or pitching stats of a n 18-year old minor league player to judging the stats of a 23 year-old in AAA (I think).
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 6:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
As I’m sure you know, the monkeys have him as a steal at under $3M.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 6:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Rosenthal says KC is in on Furcal
Founder of the Johnny Giavotella fan club.
by doublestix on Dec 9, 2008 7:13 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Furcal's agent says the Royals are in the running for him
6:47 p.m. — Agent: Four teams eye Furcal
Paul Kinzer, the agent for Rafael Furcal, said four teams remain in the running for the free-agent shortstop — the Dodgers, Blue Jays, Royals and A’s.
“Toronto and Kansas City told me the only guy they would go to ownership for is Furcal,” Kinzer said. “They’re serious.”
He is seeking a four-year guaranteed contract. The Dodgers have been unwilling to go to that level, and the A’s withdrew temporarilly last week after Furcal rejected their four-year proposal.
If the Royals signed Furcal, they would move Mike Aviles to second base.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 7:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Pass
I still don’t see the big rush to move Aviles off SS…unless we’re planning on Jacobs/Butler playing everyday at 1B. Aviles at SS isn’t outstanding, but is still above-average, I believe, and his defense at second could help compensate for Jacobs/Buter lack of glove at first.
Just seems like trying to improve on something that we already have an answer on…which on second look, has typically been the theme for the Royals so far this offseason (though I do think we improved the club to some degree with Crisp at CF and DDJ in left).
I don’t know, everyone thinks Aviles will regress at the plate…is there the same expectations for his glove?
by RoyalsFanInBillings on Dec 9, 2008 7:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I still don’t see the big rush to move Aviles off SS
It makes for an offensive and defensive upgrade at both SS and 2B positions.
Just seems like trying to improve on something that we already have an answer on
The Royals don’t have two solid, reliable players at SS and 2B. Bringing Furcal and moving Aviles to second upgrades both positions by essentially replacing Callaspo and making him a good utility IFer.
I don’t know, everyone thinks Aviles will regress at the plate…is there the same expectations for his glove?
I don’t think that 4 months of defensive metrics necessarily provide reliable data on how good of a defensive SS he is. I think he’s roughly average, all tolled (range, glove, arm, defensive instincts and judgment).
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 7:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He'll certainly regress some
There just aren’t many +14 (well, +29 over a whole season prorated) SS out there. Simple regression to the mean indicates regression. I have no problem moving him around. It’s a rare bird at SS who isn’t better at 2B.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 7:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Tend to agree. I wouldn’t be horribly upset if we signed Furcal, depending on the money, but I certainly think the money could be better spent elsewhere.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 9, 2008 10:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Where?
I don’t mean that snarkily. But where would the money be better spent? On Bradley (if he could be signed for that kind of money)? Elsewhere?
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 10:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A corner outfielder
But I guess that ship has sailed with the Coco deal. I suppose with the situation we are in now, Furcal makes some sense, but I’d much rather have a corner outfielder for that kind of money rather than a middle infielder with back issues.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 9, 2008 10:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
O-DOG!
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 10:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
havent heard that rumor in awhile
is that dead, and the eclamation point a mock??
At least Wally Joyner's not on the team....
by tcon125 on Dec 9, 2008 10:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I haven't heard the Royals rumored to be interested in him
Very few O-dog rumors out there.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 10:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, probably won't happen
but the monkeys have him as as good or better than Furcal. I don’t see why they Royals shouldn’t as least kick the tires and see what the market is.
Furcal plays a more valuble position. There defense is about equal (Hudson has the better rep, slightly, but both have seen a decline in their numbers, at least). But Hudson is the better hitter. So it balances out. Both have had health problems lately, with Furcal’s being less frequent, but more serious.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 10:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I know its silly intangibles
But I love, love, love O-Dawg’s personality. I think that could have somewhat of a positive impact on a young team like this.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 9, 2008 10:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Subjective ideas sometimes end up having tangible and real
results, however they often don’t. I like O Dog too, what kind of salary would he fetch in the market today?
At least Wally Joyner's not on the team....
by tcon125 on Dec 9, 2008 10:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The tangible, real results would be better fashion choices for Royals players
actually, I like O-Dawg too. I’ve been interested in the Royals trying for Furcal and O-dog for months.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 10:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would imagine
4/40
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 9, 2008 10:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that doesn't seem out of line to me
I know it is kind of silly to compare a 2nd baseman to a corner outfield, but does he compare favorably to Guillen in terms of ops or +.
At least Wally Joyner's not on the team....
by tcon125 on Dec 9, 2008 10:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think that would be the upper limit of what he'd get
In this economy he may get less than that
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 9, 2008 10:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I go 4/40 for him, easy
Monkeys say 4/47 is market value.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 10:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't 4 years a lot of risk?
Is that a good idea? I like a 3-year deal.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 10:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
me too
like I said, he would be a GOD in KC.
Somehow he’s smooth, smart, cool, AND gritty all at the same time.
Oh, and he’s actually a pretty good baseball player
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 10:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with the concept of spending it on a corner OFer
…but with this FA crop? Given their net benefit (offense-defense), I don’t want Dunn or Burrell, unless we’re talking cheap, short-term contracts. There just aren’t really good corner OF options out there.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 10:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Huber Now!!!!!!!
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
by buddyball on Dec 9, 2008 10:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think
We’ll all be surprised how little Dunn signs for.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 9, 2008 10:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps
But you might be surprised how little Dunn is worth. D_f has some numbers on that. His awful defense really drags down his value. And by all accounts he hated playing for a perennial loser in Cincy and wants to go to a contender. I keep hearing that from multiple sources. Not just anyone will come play in KC.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 10:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds like the market for him is really deflated though
He may want to play for a contender, but the feeling may not be mutual. His defense does suck, but we do seem to have two plus defenders at the other positions (I’m assuming we move Guillen). And we can hide him at DH from time to time.
We’ll see!
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 9, 2008 10:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd love to have Dunn at the right price
giants who hit toweing homers rule
Milton is better
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 10:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not against it for the right price
I just think that my “right price” doesn’t match Dunn’s “right price” for playing in KC. He’ll get multiple offers for decent money from teams that might contend. I know the market is deflated and he isn’t going to get huge money, but he’s also not going to be crazy cheap, I don’t think.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 10:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
if dunn is having trouble finding a home
And I’m not sure how true it all is, how are we going to find a home for Guillen.
Dunn’s potential salary seems to be declining to the range of Guillen’s.
At least Wally Joyner's not on the team....
by tcon125 on Dec 9, 2008 10:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This scares me..............
I’m just not sure about taking this risk (back-challenged SS.) Is this really the leap we want to take?
by Steve Hovley on Dec 9, 2008 7:18 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I don't know
But I am confident that if the Royals don’t take some risks, they’ll be a mediocre at best team for the forseeable future.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 7:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm pretty sure I wouldn't offer more than the As
was is 4/32 or 4/35?
Furcal could really help the team, but it could f- the Royals over, too, if he gets hurt and/or ages badly. 4/40 could really work out, but probably wouldn’t be worth it down the road., at least not without vesting options and the like. But 4 guaranteed straight up? No way, not for $40M+, not for me.
For every Gil Meche stroke of genius, there’s several Jose Guillen contracts out there that have been hung around teams necks. Furcal’s a way better player than Jose Guillen. But Milton Bradley’s a better player than Furcal… I’d feel a better about 3/36 to Bradley than Furcal, even with the jam up, because if Bradley can’t play defense, his bat plays at DH. Once Furcal loses a step…
At least see what O-Dog wants first.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 7:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Most think the A's offered 4/36
I wouldn’t top that offer. Or, I guess 3/36 is better for Furcal and I do that. I doubt that is the best Furcal could get, but maybe.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 7:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
it’s only a good “risk-reward” if rewards outweigh the risks.
I’m thinking of Dayton saying (I think) that Jose Guillen was a “risk-reward” signing — um, the “risk” is that you have a big contract for an aging replacement level OF who can’t be moved, the reward is a league average player who is still overpaid…
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 7:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If we can get Furcal
For less than $10M a year, for less than 4 years its worth it.
Potentially that is a productive top of the order…
Furcal
Coco
DDJ/Jacobs/AG/JoGui/BB
by GoBabies!! on Dec 9, 2008 7:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, if he turned down 4/36, he isn't going to take 3/29
You’re right that’s the BA Hillman would use. Gotta love the logic
1. Average NL hitter
2. Below Average hitter
3. Above Average hitter
4. Average hitter with terrible OBP
5. Above average hitter
6. Bad hitter
….thing going on there. Giving Crisp ~50 more ABs than Gordon won’t make much if any difference, really, but it will frustrate me.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 7:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I meant no more than 4 years...
I think 4/36 is a decent deal, but I’d do a pretty frigging intense physical on him to make sure tha back isn’t something chronic…
by GoBabies!! on Dec 9, 2008 7:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I still don't think the Royals will get Furcal
1. Agents will say anything to help their clients’ causes. This could be manufactured. It could be that the Royals have some interest but can’t afford them and have communicated that to Kinzer. But Kinzer talks them up to sell the A’s and Dodgers that there is a lot of demand for Furcal.
2. I doubt the Royals would end up making the biggest/best offer to Furcal.
3. I think signing Furcal would necessitate trading Guillen and most of his conract, which will be difficult.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 7:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I bet the Dodgers end up resigning him for too much
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 7:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Could be
And the A’s are throwing significant money around too.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 7:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They are
but 4/36 is a smart offer. It’s not crazy, but it is 4 years. But if it’s spread out fairlly evenly, then even with a steep decline or injury, they don’t take a total bath on the back end. But here is where my knowledge grows dim.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 7:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
it could be posturing
on DM’s part if there is truly a Zack to Atlanta for Escobar+++ plan. might make Wren increase his offer if he thinks DM will just move on and sign Furcal instead. this is a completely hypothetical situation on my part.
Founder of the Johnny Giavotella fan club.
by doublestix on Dec 9, 2008 7:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Give him a Royale!
Just kidding. Intriguing, though…
by cookierojas73 on Dec 9, 2008 7:56 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'm not as torn
If Furcal can be had, you get him. It’s not everyday free agents come here.
He’s certainly not Guillen, he’s actually an impact player on both defense and offense.
Although both of these are rumors, what’ the preference? Bradley or Furcal?
They both basically have the same cons.
by Royal from Queens on Dec 9, 2008 8:23 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Probably Furcal
I think trying to predict Furcal’s offensive output is going to be difficult because 2007 was clearly an outlier for him offensively (he was generally OPSing around .800 before that season, and before he went on the DL in 2008, he was OPSing a whopping 1.012), but it is the last full season of data to go off of. I do think Furcal has another couple of years before he starts declining, which is why if (and it is a big if) we were to sign him, I’d much prefer it be a three-year deal with a club option for a fourth year rather than a four-year deal.
If Furcal loses a step defensively and can’t handle SS, we could probably switch him with Aviles again—2B is a demanding position, but not quite to the degree that SS is.
But a big reason why I would prefer Furcal is that 2008 is the first season since, I think, 2001, where Furcal has had to miss a substantial number of games due to injury. Between 2002 and 2007, he consistently put in 140+ games per season at a very demanding defensive position. 2008 is the first year since 2004 that Bradley has played more than 100 games, and even then, he still missed out on almost a quarter of the season. Furcal may have had the worse injury bug this year, but he has the better track record overall as far as durability is concerned. So, I take Furcal.
by DarthYoshi on Dec 9, 2008 8:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good point
I’m sure we don’t want to get into a big debate, but I should point out that the only season (pre 6 weeks of 2008) Furcal ever posted an OPS over .800 was 2006.
I have him just over replacement level in 2007.
It is time for another freaking annoying Google Spreadsheet?
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 8:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, generally, Furcal was good for a .780ish OPS
Which, for a SS, is still pretty durned valuable. And, if I had to predict Furcal’s offensive output next year, I think he’d probably put up a similar OPS barring injuries.
by DarthYoshi on Dec 9, 2008 9:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's close, and I'm sure some will differ, but for equal money I'll go with MB
(Ah, Marion Barry, is it time for another shipment?)
Furcal’s had some excellent seasons in the past, but his main value lies in his being an SS. He has a good defensive reptuation, but a lot of that is based on past feats and the fact that the SS almost always looks like the best defensive player on the field (naturally, because the SS almost always is, position aside). But while some stats have him as pretty good, or even great pre-2007, most of them now have him average or worse. I think “average” is a pretty fair estimate. Now, he’s about an average hitter, and that’s very, very valuble in an SS. But I wouldn’t call him an “impact” player His upside is above average (about 3 WAR) — again, very valuable, but for context, DDJ has been better than 3 WAR 3 of the last for years, and was about 2.4 in 2007. Is that an “impact” player? And then there’s the injury… We aren’t talking about Frank Thomas here, either, where once his defense (such as it was) is gone and he can’t run, can still sit there, hit homers, or walk trying his way into .850 OPs seasons. Furcal’s athleticism was part of his appeal, and as that slides, well.
Anyway, I’m not trying to slam Furcal, for the right price he can really help a team. Average or above average players are very valuble, and the Royals in particular are thin at SS, with Aviles being arguably the only SS in the whole organization (unless TPJ counts) who can play in the majors at all.
But for equal money, and despite the crowd in the OF and at DH, I’ll go with Bradley. Yeah, OFs who might need to DH a lot to stay healthy aren’t nearly as valuble as SSes. Yeah, he’s makes JoGui look calm and stable. And yea, he might kill Ryan (wait, I’m going through the disadvantages). Yeah, he gets hurt an awful lot.
But I was just glancing at some numbers — even in the years where he played half a season, he put up about 1.5 WAR. Think about that — that’s freaking incredible. It’s important to play, but that’s above replacement, which takes into account when you aren’t there and have to be replaced. For perspective, Jose Guillen played 150+ games this year and in the most charitble estimation was .4 WAR. Bradley knows the AL pitchers. Yes, Texas was a bandbox, and I wouldn’t expect him to repeat those numbers (lucky BABIP, too, although Furcal was also extremely lucky in the short time he played this year). But this is a dude with a .370 lifetime OBP. Both James and Marcels have him projected for about.390 next year. with wRAA (Woba-batting runs above average), even as a DH he looks like an average to above-average player. And if he can play the field even a few games, then, well, so much the better, since he’s been a plus defender his whole career, pretty much.
Going off what I said above — in signing Guillen, the “reward” was that he’d be an overpaid average corner OF, but the risk (other than catastophic injury) was, well, basically, the Royals got the risk — replacement level with two years left on the deal.
With Furcal, the risk is a replacement level player due to injury (he missed almost tis whole year after a hot start) or replacement level (2007’s disaster), the reward is an above average dude declining into averageness. Not bad, and depending on the deal, one can live with that latter option.
With Bradley, looking at his history, the risk is injuries cutting him down to slighlty below average, he’s overpaid, but at least, unlike Guillen, give some return on your money (and his better than either Guillen or Teahen) The reward is a 5 WAR stud.
The main other problem with Bradley is money, of course, and a crowded OF situation. But money would be a problem with Furcal, too. As for the crowded OF, well, they’d probably have to get rid of Guillen to afford Furcal, anyway.
But I didn’t mean to write that much. I actually really think Furcal would be good on the right deal, and advocated for him earlier, but I’ve changed my mind.
Ask me in two hours, I’ll probably have changed it again.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 8:50 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Man I have a tough time view Furcal as just an average player
But the thing with both players is health. Whether it is Furcal or Bradley, being injured for a significant ammount of time is killer especially consider the cost.
In sports there is nothing more irritating, a bigger pet peeve than having a player make so much money to be injured, I hate that, I can’t stand that.
To me although I like Furcal a bit more because of the position and I personally feel that again, he can help the team on offense and defense. I view it as either would be fine with me.
We can talk about both their positives and the upside of Bradley being higher but they both have the same concern.
I will say however that Bradley’s crazy boy act can get old fast.
I don’t want to make it a “debate” but certainly something worth discussing.
by Royal from Queens on Dec 9, 2008 9:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I also think Furcal's an above average player
but 1) he’s in a decline phase, so it’s really only reasonable to expect him to be above average for the first year, first two years, of any deal at most and
2) playing time does matter — so the less any player plays, the less marginal value he has, and the closer to 2 WAR (average) he gets.
Average is still valuable.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 10:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you forgot your obligatory "I'll make this brief" disclaimer
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
by buddyball on Dec 9, 2008 9:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
important to note
Take a look at this part of the quote again.
"Toronto and Kansas City told me the only guy they would go to ownership for is Furcal," Kinzer said. "They’re serious."
It really doesn’t mean anything. So, DM might have said “the only guy they would go to ownership…” This, however, doesn’t mean that he DOES want to go to ownership, or that he WILL BE going to ownership. It really could be as simple as the agent quoting him out of context as a positive spin for his client. Perhaps DM simply said to an inquiry, “Well, I’d have to go to ownership”. Could even have been followed by “but no thanks.” The agent is in no way going to state that part.
by kabrink on Dec 9, 2008 8:39 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Excellent point
The agent, of course, is looking to create some demand for his client. Who knows how serious Moore is.
by cookierojas73 on Dec 9, 2008 9:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Moore, Probably
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 9, 2008 9:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dutton says Royals close to signing a reliver
Linkage
Dutton says the “preference” is Farsnwroth.
Choices are Farnsworth, Russ Springer, and I guess Brandon Lyon.
I’ll say its Springer. Either way, I think it’s a positive.
by Royal from Queens on Dec 9, 2008 9:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Actually
Thinking about it more, although I won’t be “devasted” and I’ll just accept it, I hope its not Farnsworth, he’s just not very good. I seen him pitch alot and although his fastball is fast, it’s gotten flat. Not good.
by Royal from Queens on Dec 9, 2008 9:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It has also gotten slower
I think Brandon Lyon is ok, but if it is true that he wants to be a closer somewhere, we may not be able to entice him.
Springer doesn’t excite me any more than Farnsworth does, though. Maybe a tiny bit more. But if Moore gives either guy more than a 1-year/$2M deal (maybe with a few performance-based incentives if need be, or a club option for a second year), I’ll be disappointed.
by DarthYoshi on Dec 9, 2008 9:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Farnsworth isn't worth more than $1.5M
Even if Moore and his people love him, in this market Farnsworth isn’t going to get more than that from any team. If they sign him, I hope to hell they sign him cheap.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 9:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Couple of differences between Springer and Farsnwoth
And that is Springer is good and has been successful recently.
Springer has a sweeeeeet goattee.
Springer would probably come cheaper and if not then for less years.
by Royal from Queens on Dec 9, 2008 9:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think Springer would come cheaper
Hopefully either of them would only be signed to a one-year deal
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 9:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well then
the goattee would be worth the extra “intimidation factor” money.
by Royal from Queens on Dec 9, 2008 9:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
DM has earned the benefit of the doubt when it comes to relievers
in my opinion
Founder of the Johnny Giavotella fan club.
by doublestix on Dec 9, 2008 9:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That does make me feel more positive about any reliever he brings in, but I can’t expect any and every reliever he signs to be good. Moore’s not 100%. And Farnsworth has been pretty awful. Even if you neutralize his luck, he wasn’t very good the last two years.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 9:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
MLBTR
Says one team is looking for Lyon to be a starter. I would assume not us.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 9, 2008 10:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Was he ever? I don't know much about him
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 10:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dutton says the Royals are close to signing a reliever
He doesn’t know who it is. He speculates that the Royals preference is for Farnsworth.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 9:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Farnsworth and Guillen and Gibbons
Hilarity is sure to ensue.
by Top Ramen on Dec 9, 2008 10:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
now they HAVE to sign Bradley
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 10:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Its almost like
DM looked at some of our problems last year and decided we needed to double down.
Jose Guillen is a jerk? Go for Milton Bradley and Kyle Farnsworth!
The team had major OBA and defense problems – sign Mike Jacobs!
Callaspo had DUI problems? Sign Rafael Furcal!
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 9, 2008 10:07 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
tremendous
At least Bradley and Furcal would be good players
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 10:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We Could Go
MMA.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 9, 2008 11:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Kyle Farnsworth's velocity
I misrepresented it in another thread. While it isn’t upper-90’s, it has dropped in recent years
2005 96.3
2006 96.2
2007 94.7
2008 94.9
Thankfully he’s had some bad BABIP luck and bad HR/FB luck in 2008. I still don’t like this choice (if he is the choice), but I think he should be better in 2009 than 2008.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 9:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
To be fair
That Yankees OF defense was BRUTAL.
by Royal from Queens on Dec 9, 2008 9:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
In fact just looking at his team defenses over his career
They’ve all been bad. He’s more a flyball guy so it might make a slight difference. As a reliever ever little out definitely counts.
by Royal from Queens on Dec 9, 2008 9:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
tRA still kills him
despite all the luck neutralization
hope he’s cheap
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 10:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Does tRA neutralize for batted ball luck and HR/FB luck?
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 10:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought that was sort of the point
I might be wrong about that. Certainly tRA* incorporates some of that, I believe, but I’ll admit to being a bit confused about the whole thing. But I think those adjustments (as well as park adjustments) are why tRA is supposed to be superior to FIP.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 10:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Right
I’d have to go re-read the whole thing to be sure, but IIRC, it was intended to capture more “batted ball reality” but I didn’t think that included HR/FB luck.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 10:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I thikn tRA* covers at least some of it with regression
and Farns fares a little better with that stuff. Still isn’t that impressive, of course, and coupled with his FIP and ERA projections, $1M guaranteed would be my personal maximum (incentives are possibilities, of course).
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 10:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't underestimate
The effect Kevin Seitzer will have on him. I know he’s the hitting instructor, but still…
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 9, 2008 10:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bradley would have a .600 OBP with Seitzer
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 10:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Arbuckle?
I guess we won’t know anything until a couple of acquisitions occur, and maybe never. But, do we have any indication based on Arbuckle’s history on what kinds of players and talents he prefers? And, so, how it might play into the current rumored choices before us?
by kabrink on Dec 9, 2008 9:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
He's more of a draft guy
I’d expect him to stick pretty close to evaluation…
by GoBabies!! on Dec 9, 2008 9:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
man, for some reason the name "Arbuckle" makes me laugh to myself every time
anyone else here from Oklahoma? Familiar with “Arbuckle Wilderness?” Is that still there?
Also Jon Arbuckle, Garfield’s owner…
I hope the draft isn’t on a Monday…
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 10:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fatty Arbuckle
Was a famous early 20th century comedian
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 9, 2008 10:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Arbuckle Wilderness
Oklahoma’s Premier Wild Game Park – or something like that
http://www.arbucklewilderness.com/
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
by buddyball on Dec 9, 2008 10:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I've Driven Through
The Arbuckle Mountains several times; northeast Oklahoma at its finest. I think it’s probably the western edge of the Ozarks, but I could be wrong geologically.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 9, 2008 11:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
no, they start there
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 11:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Arbuckle is more of a draft guru
And he is big on raw tools guys. Very big.
The Phillies first round pick this year is a very bad baseball player right now, but if he pans out, he’s basically another Hanley Ramirez. He has absurdly good tools. Then again, it’s easier to take chances like this when you have a good MLB team already in place. Arbuckle won’t have the last say either, in all likelihood.
Founder of the Johnny Giavotella fan club.
by doublestix on Dec 9, 2008 11:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I can't wait till we start acquiring former Phillies who Arbuckle likes
Arbuckle’s obsession with ex-Phillies is killing the Royals!!!!!!!!!!111
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 11:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the triumphant return of Matt Stairs
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 12:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
reminiscent of the Atlanta connection debate on other board
I had completely forgotten that Furcal was a Brave. So…, the obsession continues??
by kabrink on Dec 10, 2008 12:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
other board?
here or elsewhere?
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 12:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
sorry, I meant
on this board, other post talking about the Franceouaeuaiour for Greinke straight up silly rumor.
by kabrink on Dec 10, 2008 12:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder what ever became of that Utley kid he drafted
probably just another white stiff
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 11:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
last i heard
he was flipping burgers at a NYC mcdonalds. complete bum.
Founder of the Johnny Giavotella fan club.
by doublestix on Dec 10, 2008 12:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Is seitzer offering free memberships to mac n seitz for the Royals players??
Thats TPJ’s only hope
At least Wally Joyner's not on the team....
by tcon125 on Dec 9, 2008 10:15 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The other nugget from the recent Royals articles....
Teahen even less likely to be traded:
Moore indicated the Royals have a similarly high price for DeJesus and have no interest in trading Teahen — even though Teahen lost his spot in the outfield recently when the club acquired Coco Crisp from Boston for Ramirez.
Maybe it’s all BS to drive up his trade value….but that seems less and less likely. Seems like most of the recent speculation was coming from the beat writers speculating based on salary to a reserve.
by Top Ramen on Dec 9, 2008 10:23 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
DM's going under the radar!
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 10:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Please god no
9:21pm: Peter Gammons says the Royals have also been talking to Orlando Cabrera.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 10:25 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
with jo gui, bradley, and cabrera
we would have the all A hole team.
At least Wally Joyner's not on the team....
by tcon125 on Dec 9, 2008 10:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dayton was having a nostaglic bowl with Angel Berroa
and thought they made an appointment with Miguel Cabrera
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 10:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
When I read that I just shook my head.
by Royal from Queens on Dec 9, 2008 10:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll withhold criticism unless and until they actually sign him
But if the Royals sign O-Cab, I’m going to lose my shit.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 10:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t even want to write about all the negative aspects on Cabrera. THe post would be too long and I would end up incredibly angered.
Just… no!
by Royal from Queens on Dec 9, 2008 10:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
would you take him...
even if it was for free?
Is he better than Aviles? And is he still going to call the press box and tell them to reverse the errors they called on him??
At least Wally Joyner's not on the team....
by tcon125 on Dec 9, 2008 10:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
O-Cab's defense is good
And his hitting is awful. He’s basically a .700 OPS hitter with good SS defense. Acquiring in middle IFer means that the player is functionally replacing Callaspo. Is O-Cab better than Callaspo? Considering his defense, maybe (depending on what kind of hitter you think Callaspo is).
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 10:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah but
The thing about Cabrera is he’s going to be sticking around for longer than 1 year. It’s going to be 2 maybe even 3 years.
I want no part of that.
by Royal from Queens on Dec 9, 2008 10:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Cabrera projects about the same as a hitter
and far superior as a defender, and at SS. Still, he’s not good enough to go nuts on a rebuilding team.
His durability is a major plus, but he’s not good enough for me to get excited about losinghte opportunity cost, etc.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 10:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
hee hee
I’m sure once he’s signed we’ll all start talking ourselves into him. I wish Gopherballs was here…
it all dependson the money, of course. I was really, really negative on Cabrera earlier, but I was about E-Rent, too, and he got signed to a reasonable deal (although he wasn’t for the Royals). The monkeys see him as a 2 WAR player, and given his revent years, he might actually exceed that playing time figure.
Rally has him as a 1 defender, and Furcal as +12, and that’s what the monkeys go with. On the other hand, bUZR hates Furcal the last three years, and LOVES Cabrera. (insert critic of defensive metrics and projections here). so on that account, Furcal’s 1 win advantage in offense is erased by Cabrera’s 1 win advantage in defense and AL experience.
The monkeys see Cabrera’s value as as 1/$9.9,2/$18.0, 3/$24.0. This is one case where I definitely wouldn’t want ot pay market value. If they can get him for 1/7.5, 2/13/, 3/16 or something like that with incentives (fat chance), I could live with it, although I don’t really see the point.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 10:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I won't be talking myself into O-Cab
HIs defense softens the blow, but not by enough (and the defensive metric picture on him is murky).
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 10:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I can't wait for you to have an equivalent meltdown
to the one I did with the Jacobs deal
I just hope John Gibbons is there to talk you off the ledge
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 10:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My meltdown would involve more weeping than snark
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 10:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
put those emotions to the page!
I can’t be the only one here who will write mocking one-act musicals to react to awful trades/signings.
by DarthYoshi on Dec 9, 2008 10:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
do we lead him off or place his hacking #2 is my only question
by royalsreview on Dec 9, 2008 11:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Crisp and his as-high-as-.330 OBP have to lead off
Cabrera and his superb bat control 2nd, Guillen and his RBI ability third. Doesn’t really matter after that.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 11:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Do you see them signing a non elite type A free agent?
Yea, me neither.
Founder of the Johnny Giavotella fan club.
by doublestix on Dec 9, 2008 11:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't think so
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 12:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that's mostly shocking
because I really, really can’t believe Gammons even knows about the Royals. Heck, they’re all the way west of the Berkshires.
by kabrink on Dec 10, 2008 12:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Previously the Royals were not considered serious contenders for Furcal, although general manager Dayton Moore did not rule out the possibility here at the Winter Meetings.
Asked on Tuesday night if the report was true, Kinzer said only, “Yeah,” and then excused himself to go to a meeting.
“Toronto and Kansas City told me the only guy they would go to ownership for is Furcal,” Kinzer said in the report. “They’re serious.”
Werd.
by focs on Dec 9, 2008 10:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think Moore is kinda serious about Furcal
But I think he knows that Guillen would have to go first. So I think Moore is working fairly hard to trade Guillen. If he trades him and Furcal is still available, then I think he’ll go hard to the hoop. If he can’t unload Guillen and most of his contract, the issue is moot.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 10:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ya..
But who wants guillen… thats the tough part.
Werd.
by focs on Dec 9, 2008 10:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Does anyone?
Any news of any interest whatsoever?
At least Wally Joyner's not on the team....
by tcon125 on Dec 9, 2008 10:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I havent heard anything
I dont know if I should be worried or happy
Werd.
by focs on Dec 9, 2008 10:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
what team wouldn't want 97 RBI's?
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
by buddyball on Dec 9, 2008 10:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Only the insane ones
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 10:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bob Dutton wrote earlier today
that the Braves would be willing to take on Guillen’s salary, but as part of a ridiculous trade of like Francoeur + good prospect for Greinke + Guillen.
by DarthYoshi on Dec 9, 2008 10:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Seems like the Mets were vaguely interested
If we did a contract swap for Castillo, which wouldn’t make sense if we also picked up Furcal.
Supposedly the Braves would be willing to take on Guillen under the right circumstances.
I really hope the M’s would just take him back
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 9, 2008 10:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think DMGM kept the receipt
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 10:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The mariners seem like the best bet.
To take him for nothing and pay all his salary. A good deal for the Royals in my opinion.
Go Royals!
by BabyBlues on Dec 9, 2008 10:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
too late
they’re smart now
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 11:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Stats department!
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 11:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Moore
needs a time machine and trade Guillen to one of the 8 teams he’s played for in his career.
by Royal from Queens on Dec 9, 2008 10:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Might as well wipe the slate clean and deal guillen
And just use the money to sign a new FA to a similar 30 plus million deal.
Does that ever happen, do teams trade players for nothing? ha
At least Wally Joyner's not on the team....
by tcon125 on Dec 9, 2008 10:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Sometimes they trade them for pratically nothing
Like for a piece of organizational filler, or a PTBNL.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 10:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldnt be against it.
Totally random note. I’m watching texas Nova play on espn at the garden and they showed the Nova cheerleaders. Almost all italian looking cheerleaders, haha, went for the hometown gals.
At least Wally Joyner's not on the team....
by tcon125 on Dec 9, 2008 10:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Texas Nova?
sorry… don’t get it
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 11:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Texas vs. Villanova?
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 11:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
oh, right
tcon125 — are we talking “good Italian” or the other kind?
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 11:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Heres the question :
Are the Royals better now with what they have
Or are they better with Furcal and Guillen gone and the pieces that we could get back for guillen
Werd.
by focs on Dec 9, 2008 10:39 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Does Aviles move to 2nd?
At least Wally Joyner's not on the team....
by tcon125 on Dec 9, 2008 10:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Royals would be much better with Guillen gone and Furcal added to the team
(regardless of what the Royals got back for Guillen)
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 10:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
jinx!
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 10:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Somebody owes somebody a Coke. If you’ll pay for 75% of it, I’ll give you a post to be named later (PTBNL).
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 10:43 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
done
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 10:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Now I can use the money I saved to go buy what I really want
Dr. Pepper.
I win!
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 10:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Did something change?
I remember in NYC we could never find Dr. Pepper (especially not in restaurants). Drove my wife nuts.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 10:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I can usually find some
It is in short supply, but it’s around. Diet DP is harder to find.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 10:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
In stores, but never in restaurants
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 10:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
wife?
devil,
do we or your wife see you more often?!
by kabrink on Dec 9, 2008 11:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
literally or figuratively
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 11:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
once again
Guillen is barely an above replacement level player. If the Royals could get back Cal Pickering and a $25 gift certificate to the Cracker Barrel for Guillen and the other team picking up 75% of his salary, they should do it without giving the other team time to think.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 10:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I am guessing
That is not the first time “Calvin Pickering” and “Cracker Barrell” have been used in the same sentence.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 9, 2008 10:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You think he eats at the Cracker Barrell?
He IS the Cracker Barrell, M-therf-cker!
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 10:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He eats the Cracker Barrell
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
by buddyball on Dec 9, 2008 11:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Better with Furcal and no Guillen
Heck, they’re better with just no Guillen.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 9, 2008 10:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
percentage chance that guillen gets traded is???
I was thinking there was not a very good chance in September, but it seems to be rising after reading other posts. (maybe just wishful thinking)
Rest of you guys think its a real posibility, or just like i said your own wishful thinking?
At least Wally Joyner's not on the team....
by tcon125 on Dec 9, 2008 10:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think it is a hard trade to pull off
Money is tight this offseason. Teams aren’t going to line up for a chance to pay him $12M per year. The Royals will have to eat a significant amount of it. If the Royals eat 1/4, hopefully some team will bite. I still think it is unlikely. I hope I’m wrong.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 10:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Unfortunately it would probably be a lot easier to trade in July
Werd.
by focs on Dec 9, 2008 10:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If he has a pretty good first half, yes
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 10:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wishful thinking
as someone else’s much “earthier” mother said:
“Shit in one hand and wish in the other, and see which fills up first.”
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 10:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
IIRC, if the Royals sign O-Cab, they lose their second round pick
Do. Not. Do. It.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 10:53 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I was just getting ready to post that
Werd.
by focs on Dec 9, 2008 10:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yikes!
what about Furcal or Hudson?
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 10:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, not Furcal
I don’t know about O-dog
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 10:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I just heard today
that the diamond backs offered hudson arb.. so i believe he would cost a pick
Werd.
by focs on Dec 9, 2008 10:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What type FA was he?
If Type A, we pay. If Type B, we don’t.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 10:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Then it looks like O-dog has an added cost
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 11:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hope he does,
But i still bet the royals would be afraid to sign another FA with Guillen still on contract, so a signing or trade next offseason of a double digit million a year player seems unlikely to me this winter.
Wishful thinking fills up ballot boxes, though..haha
At least Wally Joyner's not on the team....
by tcon125 on Dec 9, 2008 10:53 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Furcal versus Bradley
not that anyone cares at this point, but here’s a spreadsheet with their last four years of total value on them. Not that it’s likely to matter.
Anyway, even when Milton’s missing half the season, he’s pretty dang good. The defensive stats would ideally be averaged against others, but the fangraphs UZR is the most readily available at the moment.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 11:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
So what you're trying to say is
is that Milton Bradley has a funny name?
by Royal from Queens on Dec 9, 2008 11:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would like to have Milton Bradley and Coco Crisp on the same time, along with Dr. Frankenberry.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 11:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
am I the only one that loves that line from the Simpsons?
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 11:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
there
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 11:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How about packaging Guillen with other players...
Say you get Guillen and your choice of one or more of the following major leaugers.
Buck or Olivo
Gathright
Gload
Mayhey
German
Smith
Gobble
Insert other players here
all for nothing!!!
How do we do it?
Volume!!!
Go Royals!
by BabyBlues on Dec 9, 2008 11:18 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
are you tryig to make me feel bad about not getting anything done all day?
other than that stupid spreadsheet that won’t refresh to fix the mistake I corrected?
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 9, 2008 11:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the freaking suspense is killing me
I hope it’s worth it once we know
by kabrink on Dec 9, 2008 11:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Don't be surprised if nothing happens at all (or very little)
Often there is lots of talk about big things being considered, but in the end the Royals sign one reliever and pick up one in the Rule 5 Draft.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 9, 2008 11:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We have to find a way
To bring back Tony Graffanino for a third tour of duty.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 10, 2008 12:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And then we can turn him into DLR – R. Ramirez – C. Crisp.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 1:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I know
I guess I’m just wishful. I just don’t see the Furcal thing happening because the Guillen thing ain’t gonna happen. So, we’re in the small moves category. I still have hope that we can move Teahen for a middle infielder. Although, I’m sure the Cubs are pretty busy right now with bigger fish to fry to worry about Teabag.
by kabrink on Dec 10, 2008 12:06 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
BTW
did you really get rid of that Cubs guy?
by kabrink on Dec 10, 2008 12:07 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I gave him a short-term timeout
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 1:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No way do we pass on Furcal
He doesn’t even cost us a draft pick!
Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.
by 306008 on Dec 10, 2008 12:38 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
greetings from AN, I covet Billy Butler
any chance of a Bobby Crosby for Billy Butler trade?
They're called RUNS for a reason.
by connie mack on Dec 10, 2008 12:40 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
sure, just
change “Bobby Crosby” to “Jack Cust” and “Billy Butler” to “Jose Guillen.”
Also, change “Royals Review” to “Dayton Moore,” and “AN” to “Billy Beane.”
seroiusly, though, grettings
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 12:42 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Then why did you trade for Mike Jacobs?
& why are you looking at Furcal? what’s wrong with your shortstop?
They're called RUNS for a reason.
by connie mack on Dec 10, 2008 12:46 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Why did the Royals trade for Mike Jacobs?
First, it wasn’t a good pickup. Second, the Royals have two positions in 1B and DH, and Butler can only play one at a time. There was a hole at the other. Now yes there were other guys who probably should have gotten a shot instead of trading for the unimpressive Jacobs. But my point here is that acquiring Jacobs doesn’t mean that Butler is now expendable. He isn’t. He has a lot of talent and upside. So the fanbase has no interest in trading him. The GM claims to have no interest in trading him; hopefully he’s telling the truth.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2008 1:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Furcal
if we DO sign him, i guarantee there will be people immediately barking about how much money he gets. so long your OK with the injury risk, I don’t see this as a big deal. athletic shortstops are not the type that normally start breaking down early. he’s only 31.
Founder of the Johnny Giavotella fan club.
by doublestix on Dec 10, 2008 1:03 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
it all depends on the amount of money he gets
He was hurt almost the whole season, and back injuries… well, Eric Chavez was once a better than Furcal, and I think an SS needs hiis back even more than an SS.
Also, Furcal was horrible in 2007 — replacement level stuff, and he played the whole year. So his last good year was 2006.
That said, if the Royals get him for not much more than the As offered, it wouldn’t be so bad. For the right contact, an average-to-above average player can really help a team (sorry to keep repeating this), especially one like the Royals, who have exactly one middle infielder (Aviles )who looks capable of being a league average starter next year at the moment, and he’s hardly a sure thing .
I think O-Dog’s slightly better (the only significant thing Furcal’s got on him is position, but that matters — Hudson’s an equal defender and a better hitter), but costs a draft pick, and probably more money, too.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Dec 10, 2008 1:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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