Huber out of Options?

by SittinByTheFoulPole on Feb 5, 2008 11:43 AM EST

I came across this article from CBS Sportsline and was unaware of the point mentioned in the final sentence.

http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/teams/report/KC/10618825

"Huber was a catcher in the Mets' organization before the Royals acquired him in a trade, then was switched to the outfield and later to first base. He is out of options, so the Royals must make a decision on him."

Maybe I'm the only one, but I hadn't noticed that Hubes was out of options. Is this true? Is it just me or does this guy have Matt Diaz (w/ more power) written all over him? Or better, he seems like a Jeff Conine-esque player. I understand that he's likely a defensive liability, but it seems like he'd potentially be a good role player for somebody. I'm probably unreasonably biased, but I'll be disappointed if Hubes never gets a serious look in KC. And sadly, I'm guessing by this point his trade value would be akin to that of Jeff Keppinger or Donnie Murphy. Maybe we'll get some cash and/or a tub of sunflower seeds for his toils.

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From a post at Royals Corner

Courtesy of "El Chupinabre"

Players out of options:

Gathright - option years used 2004, 2005, 2007
Nunez - option years used 2005, 2006, 2007
Huber - option years used 2005, 2006, 2007
Costa - option years used 2005, 2006, 2007
Callaspo - option years used 2005, 2006, 2007
German - option years used 2002, 2003, 2004
Gobble - option years used 2003, 2004, 2005
Gload - option years used 2002, 2003, 2005

Davies, Shealy, Peralta, Braun, Hochevar, Lumsden, Musser, Pimentel, Rosa, Tupman, Lisson, Sanchez, and Maier still have options left.

Up in the air - JDLR I have been told he is out of options and I believe it, but the only years I can confirm were used as option years is 2003 & 2004 so take it for what it's worth.

I still love Huber, but I think the boat has sailed on him. He'd be a useful bench player in the NL, but I can't see us getting much value for him anymore. He's fallen into the Josh Phelps/Brad Eldred career path. Maybe if he's lucky he can turn into Kevin Millar or Jeff Conine. Hey, maybe we can trade him to Baltimore.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Feb 5, 2008 12:03 PM EST reply actions

Good information

I am fairly sure De la Rosa is out of options. If memory serves me this was one point made when he was acquired from the Brewers on the cheap in 2006. Plus he was DLed instead of optioned last year when he was struggling.

I did not know Nunez was out of options, but am sorta glad to learn this. I have a lot of faith in Nunez and want to see him given every chance in 2008. Maybe this will force the Royals' hand to have him start the year in the #5 rotation slot.

Callaspo, German, Gload and Gobble are on the team. Barring a trade of DeJesus, Teahen or (God, let it happen!) Guillen - I expect only two of Costa, Gathright and Huber will make the cut. If the situation has not resolved itself by late March look for one of them to come down with an "injury."

Me personally, I've been ready to sell Gathright since late 2006. I don't see him ever being better than a 4th outfielder. There are a few clubs looking for CF help still. Padres and Twins come to mind.

Rock Chalk Talk for pretty good KU College Baseball Coverage

by James Quinn on Feb 5, 2008 12:25 PM EST up reply actions

Gathright

He should be expendable, but the downside is that would leave Costa as the default back up in CF. Costa might be okay in CF for a few innings here and there, but the defense would suffer if DeJesus had to miss a few games or go on the DL.

by Gopherballs on Feb 5, 2008 1:36 PM EST up reply actions

German can play CF

by DarthYoshi on Feb 5, 2008 1:48 PM EST up reply actions

Okay, I think that...

was a little too far. German in Center for an extended time? Come on

by MileHighKCfan on Feb 5, 2008 1:56 PM EST up reply actions

We've put German in center for a few games before

and the world didn't end. :)

If DDJ goes on, say, the 60-day DL, I would not advocate German as the solution either. But if DDJ needs several days off to deal with a muscle strain or something, I'd probably be fine with German taking a week in CF.

by DarthYoshi on Feb 5, 2008 1:58 PM EST up reply actions

Gathright is better than Costa

Please dump Costa's nearly worthless but.

I probably disagree with you.

by Scott McKinney on Feb 5, 2008 2:10 PM EST up reply actions

Agreed

Or how about Teahen in CF?

I think Mitch Maier could handle CF quite well if he needed to be promoted should DJ get hurt for an extended period. Maier is no great hitter, but he's a good defender, and you may as well see what he can do.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Feb 5, 2008 2:18 PM EST up reply actions

I think Huber is done with the Royals

has been for at least a year now

i'm sad, but, yea...

the real choice i think is with Gathright and possibly Costa, for different reasons

by Freneau on Feb 5, 2008 12:23 PM EST reply actions

Huber Could Be

A fine PR.

I'm not getting older....oh, wait, yes I am....and slower.... and weaker. God, this is great!

by philofthenorth on Feb 5, 2008 8:48 PM EST up reply actions

oooh

I sense some left over bad feelings for how Buddy handled Huber during the call-up period at the end of last year's season.

I would rather have Huber than Costa. I have never liked Costa very much and maybe it is just a reaction to a player that Buddy didn't care for, that I like him.

Success is counted sweetest by those who ne'er succeed. - Emily Dickinson

by buddyball on Feb 5, 2008 10:41 PM EST up reply actions

options

I'm so glad we moved him from behind the plate. I allowed myself to believe it was because he was too great of an offensive prospect to be subjected to the abuse that catching puts on one's body. Realistically, he probably stunk defensively there too.

Thanks to RoyalsRetro for the good "options" information. I'd be all for a Gathright trade. Wouldn't his trade value be as high now as it's been since his rookie year in TB? Well, aside from the fact that he's out of options...

Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.

by SittinByTheFoulPole on Feb 5, 2008 12:38 PM EST reply actions

Huber and the out of options

odd men out will be trade bait in ST for teams looking to fill major league holes. Huber hasn't gotten the chance to show what he can do for 2 years now. That tells us all we need to know about KC's plans for him. They don't even know what position to play him 1B or LF.

I'd like the kid to get a chance to play so the NL would be a good place. Wouldn't be the first KC to blossom somewhere besides the K.

by daveyork on Feb 5, 2008 1:00 PM EST reply actions

Costa is gone too

Hillman, you're on notice.

by FireBell on Feb 5, 2008 1:31 PM EST reply actions

Trade Huber and Costa

and there is room for the rest on the 25-man roster.

I probably disagree with you.

by Scott McKinney on Feb 5, 2008 2:12 PM EST reply actions

What I think is likely

Is that the Royals demote them right before opening day and hope to sneak them through waivers.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Feb 5, 2008 2:19 PM EST up reply actions

Can't just demote them

You have to use a procedure within the rules to send them down. They could be outrighted to the minors, but then they would refuse the assignment and become free agents. Since they don't have guaranteed contracts, there would be no reason for them to accept the minor league assignment. They would have to be DFA'd which would give the Royals 10 days to trade, waive or release them. I think they'd try to work out a trade before going the DFA route.

I probably disagree with you.

by Scott McKinney on Feb 5, 2008 2:26 PM EST up reply actions

That's what I meant

I'm sure they'll try to work on a trade, but I really don't see them having much value and in the end they'll try to demote them and have them clear waivers. Teams are usually too busy to juggle their rosters to bother claiming a guy like that, unless they are really deficient or have an injury - which could happen.

If they clear waivers, I believe they have to accept assignment the first time they are outrighted. After that, they have to accept assignment. I'm not sure if that's still the rule though.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Feb 5, 2008 2:36 PM EST up reply actions

I think this is the rule:

When a player is sent outright or outrighted to the minors, then he has cleared procedural waivers and been removed from the 40-Man roster. A player may be outrighted once in his career without a choice. After the first time, the player may choose to accept the assignment and report or refuse the assignment and opt for free agency. After the assignment is made, the player has 72 hours to make a decision about his status. Players who are outrighted to the minors may return to the major-leagues by having their contract purchased (sometimes referred to as "selected") or being signed to a major-league contract with another team as a free agent. If the player has five years of service time, he may reject his assignment regardless of whether it is his first outright.

I don't think Costa or Huber have been "outrighted" at all in their career, but I could be wrong.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Feb 5, 2008 2:37 PM EST up reply actions

I don't think they can be sent down

If they are out of options, I don't think they can just be sent down to the minors. If so, then being "out of options" would be meaningless.

And these players won't have to be waived, because they could both be easily traded. I'm not saying the Royals would get a great, or even equal player in return. But they both have value as marginal major leaguers and it wouldn't be hard to trade them for something.

So, Moore would try to work out a trade late in spring training (unless injuries come up which would put someone on the DL, opening up a roster spot) and then if he can't work one out, he'll DFA them and pull off a waive-trade.

I probably disagree with you.

by Scott McKinney on Feb 5, 2008 2:42 PM EST up reply actions

I agree with you

You run the risk of losing them to waivers.

I just don't think there's much of a trade market for them. Trying to pass them through waivers may be our only option.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Feb 5, 2008 2:46 PM EST up reply actions

DFA waiver-trades

Typically, if a player has some MLB value and doesn't have a prohibitively large contract, when a player is DFA'd, then waived, there will be some claim(s) put in on him by other teams. Then, the waiving team will try to work out a trade with one or more of the claiming teams.

Both of these guys have some major league value. By late spring training, some teams will be looking for a 5th OFer or another bat on the bench (particularly in the NL). Huber and Costa will look tradeworthy to some teams, particularly since the asking price won't be high. Moore will try to work out some kind of trade and then finally DFA them if he has to. But even if DFA'd and put on waivers, I still think they'll end up being traded.

I probably disagree with you.

by Scott McKinney on Feb 5, 2008 3:00 PM EST up reply actions

Gathright vs. Costa

I'm more than a little surprised that it appears that people would rather dump Gathright than Costa. In my opinion, Costa has little upside potential. He has shown precious few skills and I don't know if he'll ever make even a decent 4th OFer. Gathright, on the other hand, at least has good on base skills and makes for a good pinch runner, or someone who can put bunt down when you need one. I think Gathright is clearly the superior 4th OFer and bench player. Costa, on the other hand, offers the team virtually nothing.

I probably disagree with you.

by Scott McKinney on Feb 5, 2008 2:29 PM EST reply actions

You may disagree with me

But I agree with you. Costa does a lot of things okay, but nothing really well. Gathright at least brings speed. He hasn't translated that to great defense or stolen bases yet, but its worth seeing if he can. And he can bunt for hits, which is something. And he does seem to have a decent eye for walks, which is more than I can say for Shane.

Guys like Costa are a dime a dozen.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Feb 5, 2008 2:39 PM EST up reply actions

Agree, but...

I'm not in favor of Costa over Gathright, I'm just suggesting that Gator's trade value has to be higher than Costa's, especially given the solid numbers from 2007. I'd at least seriously kick the tires on a Gathright trade before resorting to essentially giving Costa or Huber away.

Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.

by SittinByTheFoulPole on Feb 5, 2008 3:42 PM EST up reply actions

I agree

I'd see what the market is for him and see if the Royals can get something good for him. But I really don't think there is a lot of demand for Gathright as he is a light hitting 4th OFer with questionable defensive skills. He clearly has some skills and with his youth, he has upside potential. So, he has more trade value than Costa, but I doubt we'd get something genuinely good.

So, I'd shop all three of them and see what kind of interest is out there. Unless we got a really good offer on Gathright, I'd dump Costa and Huber for whatever we can get. This Costa and Huber dump should only be done very close to opening day when it is clear that there is no room on the roster for them (a spot could open up if one or more players is placed on the DL).

I probably disagree with you.

by Scott McKinney on Feb 5, 2008 3:48 PM EST up reply actions

Who are the GMs

That love toolsy fast guys? Get Jim Bowden on the phone, quick!

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Feb 5, 2008 4:18 PM EST up reply actions

I'll bet this sounds weird,

but if choosing between Costa and Gathright, I'd pick Gathright to be the 4th OF, because of the "contributions versatility" he brings - i.e., he can pinch-run, pinch bunt, play 2 of the 3 outfied spots at least OK, etc.

On the other hand, if the Royals lacked outfield depth and had to pick one of these two to start, oddly I'd gamble on Costa and hope he developed some pop.

I guess what I'm saying is I know what Gathright is most likely to do, and I think most will agree it's not quite enough to warrant starting, and while I think Costa most likely isn't good enough to start either, I think there may be a 1% or 2% chance that he could improve enough. Gathright, on the other hand, I feel is as good right now as he will ever get.

by loyal2s dad on Feb 5, 2008 4:13 PM EST reply actions

One key unknown

I guess what I'm saying is I know what Gathright is most likely to do

One thing we don't know is if Gathright's massive OBP surge in 2007 was the real deal. If it was, then he is clearly better than Costa in any role. I'd really like Gathright to be the 4th OFer so we can see if that was for real or not. Costa, on the other hand, has never shown me anything in 421 at bats over three major league seasons. I don't think he has one plus tool.

Even for a starting OFer role, I'd rather have Gathright and his OBP and speed (the OBP I think he'll have as a major leaguer) than Costa and his .255/.290/.365. I think we pretty well know what we have in Costa.

I probably disagree with you.

by Scott McKinney on Feb 5, 2008 4:21 PM EST up reply actions

I think what's hard to know sometimes

is how a player will respond to playing every day, rather than in a backup role.

I could be wrong, but I don't think Joey can post a 371 OBP playing everyday.

My point about Costa, which I did a poor job of explaining, is that I am at least a little bit intrigued by his awesome performance in Omaha last year.

That being said, there is a very large likelihood that he is the proverbial AAAA player; on the other hand, there might be a 1% chance he could blossom if given a chance.

If Teahen sustained a season ending injury on March 30th, and no trades were available, I think I would roll the dice and start Costa every day for a couple of months, just on the small chance that something clicks.

If no injuries occur, then I'd just as soon cut Costa and let Gathright fill the 4th OF role - one I think he is very much suited for.

I guess what I'm saying is, and this is just an opinion, not necessarily backed up by any stats, I don't think Gathright could be an effective every day starter. I also think Costa is ill-suited for the 4th OF role, even if he had a better track record.

by loyal2s dad on Feb 5, 2008 4:29 PM EST reply actions

But its not like Costa hasn't had a chance

He's had 449 MLB plate appearances, and for the most part they have been utterly forgettable.

I think we know what we have in Costa. I think Gathright has a bit more upside.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Feb 5, 2008 4:34 PM EST up reply actions

he needs another chance

by test on Feb 5, 2008 4:38 PM EST up reply actions

Hard to say

I'm sure it is true that some players do better in part-time roles than as starters. Whether right or wrong, I've heard that said of German. But I don't think this is true for the vast majority of players. Gathright gets his hits by making some contact or bunting and then beating out throws. He isn't really a streaky or fluky hitter. His unique offensive skills (slap contact and speed) are very repeatable.

My point about Costa, which I did a poor job of explaining, is that I am at least a little bit intrigued by his awesome performance in Omaha last year.

I would be intrigued by that except for that fact that in that great season, he also had 103 MLB at bats in that season and hit an abysmal .223/.257/.301. That is sub-Berroa hitting. If Costa's great 2007 AAA performance was because he improved and figured something out, shouldn't we have seen some glimmer of that in the majors? Instead, what we saw was his worst MLB partial season yet.

I don't think Gathright would be a particularly effective everyday starter. I think he's just a 4th OFer and that is all he'll ever be. But I think he'd be better than Costa in either role.

I probably disagree with you.

by Scott McKinney on Feb 5, 2008 4:37 PM EST up reply actions

those at bats weren't enough

by test on Feb 5, 2008 4:38 PM EST up reply actions

NY, you have hit upon my intrigue

The two lines for Costa last year make no sense.

Either he was way over his head in his performance in Omaha, or way under his head with his performance in KC.

I think it's likely that he had a year over his head in Omaha - but you have to wonder, what if KC is wrong about that? What if his KC performance was poor due to inconsistent playing time?

I don't pretend to know the answer - but in general, sabermetrics has taught us that minor league numbers are translatable to the big leagues.

The problem, like any stats, are that they are translatable in general, and specific cases may often not adhere to the norm. Costa most likely is the odd case, the so called AAAA player, whose stats do not translate well.

Bottom line to me, in a case like this, is we need to trust in the organization to know more than just the data, and therefore have the ability to make the right interpretation.

I think due to the track record of this organization since Kaufmann passed away, a lot of people have much difficulty just trusting the organization to make competant decisions. Hopefully, this has begun to change in the Moore era. I, for one, think it has and it will.

by loyal2s dad on Feb 5, 2008 4:52 PM EST reply actions

Costa

The two lines for Costa last year make no sense.

Unless he's really just a AAAA player, in which case they make perfect sense.

What if his KC performance was poor due to inconsistent playing time?

I might be inclined to think this is possible, except that he's never shown much hitting ability at any point in the majors, in 3 seasons and 449 plate appearances.

I don't pretend to know the answer - but in general, sabermetrics has taught us that minor league numbers are translatable to the big leagues.

You can translate them mathematically by creating some kind of MLE like BP's Davenport Translations, but many players never actually realize those MLE's. Many players can't make the jump. It is very common.

I probably disagree with you.

by Scott McKinney on Feb 5, 2008 5:05 PM EST up reply actions