Bannister is Rubbing off on Greinke
Hey guys, we know by now Bannister and Greinke have the "Who's Got the Lowest ERA?" game going. While that friendly competition may lead to problems like tonight, (where I bet some part of Greinke wanted to complete the game because Bannister did) it also leads to quotes like this [courtesy the KC Star]:
“One thing I noticed when Bannister was pitching,” Greinke said, “is he kept the ball down really well. When he misses over the plate, he doesn’t miss thigh-thigh. He misses at the knees or shins. That’s what I focused on this time.”
I think Greinke paying attention to/getting pitching tips from Bannister can only be a good thing. Can we imagine how Bannister's brain might help ZG pitch better? I can't think of a better pitcher for Zach to emulate in terms of control, efficiency, and game-planning.
I'm also thinking: we know Bannister reads stat blogs and the like. If we can put together some solid stat analysis on him or Greinke, maybe Brian can pass it along for us? I think this could be a really awesome way for us to help the Royals. For example, there's been a lot of debate about pitch counts the last few games. Someone should compile the debate into a succinct form and try to get Brian's attention about it. He could refute it if he wants, offer his take on it, or take it into consideration AND pass the knowledge onto Zach/McClure. At the very least, we would get some interesting takes on the debate from the pitcher himself. What do people think? I think we have the brains around to pull it off, but it is very late and I might be imagining this is possible.
Now if we can only get Hochevar involved somehow . . .
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When I read that article, I was thinking the same thing
about Greinke and Bannister. I love the fact that Greinke follows Bannister in the rotation so he can see what a pitcher can do with location, changing speeds and working hitters. Bannister has to do that in order to be successful. With Greinke’s stuff, it could put him into an elite category. Zack is learning to be a professional with his head and his arm. He has always seems like an intelligent kids – just needed to focus on the craft. Bannister seems to be helping him to just that.
Greinke also mentioned
That in the cold weather certain guys looked uncomfortable at the plate and he used that to his advantage. Seems like he is learning from Bannister that context is important, and he needs to think about his approach, rather than just chucking it up there.
How awesome was it to see Greinke pitch last night? This it the Zack I have dreamt about since 2004. He threw first pitch strikes on just about every single hitter. He got a ton of ground balls. He had absolutely terrific command. He seemed to get stronger as the game went along, getting swinging strikeouts in the 8th and 9th, throwing 95 mph in the 9th. He had an easy complete game, relatively stress-free on his arm. He had a huge grin from ear to ear in his post game interview. I felt so great for the guy. It was simply awesome to watch. Watching this team have not only an effective, but a dominating pitching staff is so much fun to watch.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Another one for the title bar...
Royals Review: Grown men (and women) dreaming of Zack Greinke since 2004!
And that’s not a shot at you Retro, I’m right there with ya.
Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
by SittinByTheFoulPole on Apr 15, 2008 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I also have dreams of Bannister
But I probably shouldn’t talk about that.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Let me tell ya....
It was awesome watching him pitch in person… Sharp movement (I could see it well from the front row in right field), good command, and a CG to boot (yes, I know some people here don’t like that, but I was elated to see him again in the 9th).
So, after witnessing this last night, I’d ready to get ‘Greinke, 23’ put on the back of my jersey. Can anyone recommend a good after market place to get this done? I will probably need to send it in, as I am in Seattle. Also, does anyone have any experience dry cleaning a signed jersey (Sharpie was used for sigs…)? Can it be done?
Last observation: Butler looked decent on 1st last night, including that slick attempt at the 3-6-3. I don’t know how it looked on TV, but his backhand and throw were well executed. I hope he can make that transition to 1B.
Here is a pic of 60% of my family last night at the game. Hailey, on the right, loves Billy Butler and Shane Costa. She got to meet Billy last year at a Tacoma Rainers game, and is pissed as hell that he married over the offseason.

Finally coming back to the 'K'!!!! I'm going to be there 7/11/08, vs the SEA Mariners, of course!
by RoyalsFanInMarinerTown on Apr 15, 2008 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
i think all of us are pissed as hell that billy got married ;)
just kidding. I think I’ll have a day of mourning when Greinke ties the knot. Except not really.
Boyfriend of the Year 2008: It's gonna be big!
by loyal2theroyals on Apr 15, 2008 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Hope you had fun watching Zack
He was grinning ear to ear after the game. It was a treat to watch.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
What is so stunning
to me about Greinke piching so dominantly this year is that he is doing it with a very low k rate. Strange with his stuff? That’s what also brings home the Bannister connection to me.
I hope he bought Grudz a steak dinner
After all the work he put him through last night.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Apr 15, 2008 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Not to mention the...
hit by pitch and the foul ball off the shin. Give that man a day off.
bban's brain + greinke's arm = cy young
I really hope this early season trend keeps up for the two of them.
Bannister said in an interview the other day that a pitcher always has 3 really good starts, 3 really bad starts, and then the other 4 starts determine what kind of pitcher he is, whether he’s above or below average. I really hope that these past few games were the really bad starts…just think how good those good starts would be ;)
Boyfriend of the Year 2008: It's gonna be big!
by loyal2theroyals on Apr 15, 2008 10:33 AM EDT reply actions
Anyone else pleasantly surprised with Butler's fielding?
One of his throws to second on a DP attempt was a little off, but he got a few hard grounders and liners hit to him, and he at least pretended like he knew what he was doing. Not to jinx the guy, but maybe he isn’t a total hack at 1b after all.
And to actually be more on-topic...
I wonder if this outing represents an overall bigger shift in Greinke. He’s usually been more of a flyball pitcher, and Safeco would be his kind of park.
He Apparently Learned
The importance of keeping the ball down from Bannister. This could explain the grounders.
Let's go, boys, to the toppermost of the poppermost!
by philofthenorth on Apr 15, 2008 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
This could also explain
the Royals pitching woes of the past decade… it took Brian Bannister to teach a guy who came up through our system the importance of keeping the ball down. Wow.
Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
by SittinByTheFoulPole on Apr 15, 2008 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
ugh.
I hadn’t thought of it that way. Let’s hope it is just Greinke listening more to a peer than a coach… I mean, they are all professional coachs right? Surely one of them in the past said keep the ball down. Right??!
Don't Stop Believing!
We don't have a lot of info to go on, but maybe Greinke does listen to peers more than coaches
Last year Greinke said in some interview that he learned some really important things from Riske last year, but didn’t really learn anything from McClure (he put it a little more diplomatically than that).
I probably disagree with you.
by Scott McKinney on Apr 15, 2008 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
Zack might also be a little wary of pitching coaches (coaches in general) after the Guy Hansen debacle. Zack has said that he’s an “I’ll believe it when I see it” guy. With that mentality, it’s probably easier to see Riske and Banny going out there and mowing guys down versus listening to Bobby Mac or anyone else talk about pitching philosophy. If any of this speculation is true, then following Banny and Meche in this rotation could be very, very good for Zack. Let’s hope so!
Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
by SittinByTheFoulPole on Apr 15, 2008 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Am pleased
But it will take more than one game to convince me. I do like how Trey is handling it though. Put him, let him get some confidence, but let Gloadie finish, so that Butler doesn’t hurt his confidence by costing us a game. Eventually we’ll have to let Butler finish games too, but now is not that time.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Apr 15, 2008 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
I would love it
but I really doubt we’d get Banny to comment back to us on pitcher abuse. I would obviously love to know what he (or any other MLB pitcher) thinks about it, but I know I wouldn’t ever want to come off the hill during a game, so I would probably never think the manager was abusing me. One thing I’d really like to know is if Hillman and McClure are on the same page…
I’ve found these arguments back-and-forth about abuse to be a little over the top (and quite combative). Is there cause for concern, maybe, but none of us really know what’s going on in the clubhouse, the dugout, training room, etc… so speculting as to if 100+ pitches consistently will cause Greinke’s arm to fall off, or if running Banny out there for 100+ a couple of times is going to cause what happened last September in July this year… is ridiculous. I’d love to hear from any of the MLB pitchers about this, but my guess is we could ask Banny and Greinke the exact same question, and get polar opposite answers. So until these guys start showing signs of fatigue, I see no reason not to keep running them out there if they feel good. And at that point, our dominant bullpen can pick them up. I’m pretty sure Hillman knows it’s in the Royals (and his) best interest to have a healthy pitching staff.
Don't Stop Believing!
My point was not limited to pitcher abuse . . .
I realize that may not be the best one, but I’m saying we should keep our eyes open. If we see a trend emerging we can pass on, we actually have a slimmer of hope we can get it to the team.
That would be really cool and I hope it can happen.
I didn’t mean to single out the pitcher abuse argument, i was just fresh on my mind from going back and reading some of the game thread posts. I have no interest in getting into that argument either! :)
Anyway, I would love to get some insight into how they all interact. Does Greinke ever listen to Bobby Mac? Does Bobby Mac ever try to talk to Greinke, or does he just send Banny in with suggestions? I’m mostly kidding, but you never know I guess.
Don't Stop Believing!
I like what I am seeing...
Watching the game last night made apparent the relationship that Greinke and Bannister have working. I noticed Greinke pitching to contact rather then focusing on the strike out. Allowing his “stuff” to work low in the strike zone caused many ground balls. Only in the 8th as Greinke tired did he elevate one which was caught against the wall by Teahen. Bannisters approach to out thinking the batter and force him to hit pitchers pitches is actually what Greinke needs to continue to do. Greinke has the ability to strike out 10 a game but pitching smart as he did last night will allow Greinke to be more success giving that he allows less hits and walks. I like to focus on WHIP rather then ERA early in the season and Greinke’s WHIP at the moment is .92. This is down from 1.32 last year. I also feel that pitching like hitting can be contagious I expect Bale to have a good performance tonight.
What I'd like to see rub off on Greinke
In my opinion, Bannister’s greatest skill is his pitch selection. He seems to always know what is the best pitch and pitch sequence to throw to a batter, so they are always off balance even when he’s throwing them a seemingly quite hittable pitch. I know his selections come from a great deal of research and studying the batters he’s facing. But I hope he can teach some of this to Greinke. If nothing else, perhaps he can give him some pointers about pitch sequences that work against particular players or types of hitters. And/or, I hope that when Greinke is facing the same team that Bannister faced the prior day, he watches the films of that start to see what kind of pitches and sequences worked against those hitters.
I probably disagree with you.
On a similar note...
I wonder if there is a new dimension to how Greinke works with Buck, and if that has affected Greinke’s pitch selection at all. Buck already does a pretty good job of handling pitchers, and he has caught all of Greinke’s and Bannister’s games so far, so I wonder if he’s improved in that department as well. He called a pretty good game last night.
What I'd like to see
is someone asking the guys to what extent they’re working together on approach. For all the credit Leo Mazzone got in Atlanta, people forget that Smoltzie, Glavine, and Maddux (and Millwood, later) were pretty tight, and there’d be occasional references in articles to those guys feeding off one another—I think I need to expand this now. Some pitching staffs, the guys compete with one another vigorously, but don’t help each other out so much (negatively competitive). Other staffs, guys help each other out a ton, but don’t have a huge sense of competition amongst themselves (“we’re all just a team here”). Atlanta… those guys were trying to outdo one another every which way to Sunday, but at the same time they wanted that sense of accomplishment to mean something, so they helped each other out and pushed one another to be better every day. Even Maddux, who’s well-known for the attitude that he’s “going to take his pitching secrets to the grave”, opened up to his buddies; it’s just the press he’s not going to talk to about it.
My impression (which may well be totally incorrect) has always been that a pitching coach doesn’t have much impact on approach; they’re more in tune with keeping an eye on a pitcher’s mechanics and helping them make corrections there when necessary. I liken it to, say, my English professor in college. They teach you how to write, but how you apply that knowledge is all on you. I suspect the same is probably true of a pitching staff.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
Can they teach Meche?
I’d like to see Meche being a bit more “cerebral” as well. He’s got the strikeout pitcher’s mentality that means he’ll consistently have 90 pitches by the 5th inning. Perhaps a little pitching to contact might do him a little good as well.
Strikeouts are fascist. Throw some ground balls, they’re more democratic.
in 2007
Meche was efficient enough to get to 6-7 innings in most of his starts. I wouldn’t worry about his ability to eat innings.
meche had the highest k/9 among starters, and led all starters in ERA
same goes with Soria in the pen.
So, more K’s pls.
This space intentionally left blank.
K's are good
In fact, I would say that they are almost an unqualified good. The very little bit of downside is vastly outweighed by the upside.
At the same time, I think Crash Davis’s advice to Nuke LaLouche was sound, particularly for a young pitcher. I don’t think the best way to pitch is necessarily to try to strike everyone out. That mindset can lead many young pitchers to overthrow and/or nibble at the corners, which leads to more walks and fewer K’s. I always thought Crash was telling Nuke to not try to strike guys out so he would just trust his stuff and throw strikes.
But Gil Meche isn’t in the same situation as Ebby Calvin LaLouche. Meche is a veteran major league pitcher. He knows that K’s are important and he knows how to get them. He has a proven ability to do so. He has the right approach; he’s just been having some control problems. He’ll get back on track, rack up some K’s, drop his ERA and even get some W’s too.
I probably disagree with you.
by Scott McKinney on Apr 15, 2008 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions

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