A Note On Lineups
There’s been a consistent interest in lineup talk this spring, despite the fact that the Royals don’t really seem to have the kind of roster composition that would make it a truly meaty subject. Because the Royals don’t really have an elite hitter yet, it doesn’t even really fit to dream about having your DH with a huge OBP hit leadoff or anything like that. No, regarding this cast of likely starters, with their lack of extreme power or patience, the only looming problem of any consequence is the likelihood that one of the killer Gs – Grudzielanek or Gload – will end up wasting our time near the top of the lineup, where their veteran presence and grittiness won’t do much to help their sub-par, batting average based, offensive profiles. (Can you tell I got started on this before Opening Day?) While it still isn’t clear how the Shealy/Gload/Butler logjam will sort itself out, lets take a look at the numbers generated by Pinto’s lineup toy and the mega-projections generated by NyRoyal.
Note, for time purposes I could only get into what appears to be the default scenario: Gload and Butler in the lineup, Buck catching. If anyone wants to play with Gathright, Callaspo and Olivo scenarios, I welcome your help. It seems unlikely Olivo would change much, since he’s basically the same hitter as Buck, perhaps ditto for DeJesus/Gathright. I'm less sure how Callaspo would jumble things, however.
The interesting thing that emerges here is that using the model based on the more modern scoring environment (Pinto offers two choices), a strong case is made for a rather extreme lineup:
1. Teahen- .280/.352/.434 (the numbers listed are the mega-projections)
2. Butler- .290/.358/.462
3. Grudz- .283/.324/.392
4. Guillen- .275/.336/.449
5. Gordon- .267/.340/.450
6. Buck- .240/.309/.411
7. Gload- .292/.335/.425
8. Pena- .264/.292/.357
9. DeJesus- .278/.355/.410
Despite the fact that the computer spits this out as the most productive batting order at 4.865 (788 over the full season) runs per game you can rest assured that Trey Hillman will never send this batting order to the home plate umpire at the beginning of the game. Basically, it’s clear that Teahen is a better overall hitter than DeJesus, and might be a better hypothetical leadoff man, but dropping DDJ all the way to 9th seems strikingly odd. Perhaps it’s the whole "second leadoff man" concept, I suppose. Nearly all of the top lineups generated have Teahen leading off, with DDJ hitting 9th, with some version of Gload/Grudz flipping between the third and seventh slots. An interesting approach in lineup theory is avoiding the totally lost cause inning, and that may be driving the weird decision to hide Grudz in the 3-hole and throwing David at the bottom, and thus avoiding, those magical McEwing-Buck-Gathright sort of affairs. Automatic out-machines are bad, but having two of them back to back can really short-circuit things. One thing is abundantly clear however, Tony Pena Jr., according to this simulator, should always bat eighth. Always. Pena shows up as the eight hitter in nearly every good lineup spit out by the program. With Pena 9th, he's just too close to the better hitters in the lineup.
Pinto’s toy also has a model based on a broader set of data however, a 1959-2004 model, which might be seen as the less extreme one. To tell you the truth, I really have no idea what the real point is, only that one has about forty years more data, much of which is actually irrelevant. This isn't 1960, and Bob Gibson isn't going to walk through that door, throw 250 pitches, and walk out. Nevertheless in this simulator, DeJesus reemerges as the consensus leadoff choice. Here’s the most productive lineup, averaging 4.838 runs per game:
1. DeJesus- .278/.355/.410 (again, all these numbers are the mega-projections)
2. Butler- .290/.358/.462
3. Guillen- .275/.336/.449
4. Teahen- .280/.352/.434
5. Gordon- .267/.340/.450
6. Gload- .292/.335/.425
7. Grudz- .283/.324/.392
8. Buck- .240/.309/.411
9. Pena- .264/.292/.357
Once again, a run of the numbers suggests that Butler should be hitting second, a proposition that again seems unlikely. How does this lineup compare to the one rumored to be favored by Hillman? Trey reportedly wants Grudz hitting 2nd, followed by Gordon, Guillen, Butler, Gload and Teahen. Dropping Teahen to seventh, would likely be a mistake, wasting his OBP in front of Buck and Pena, and having Butler hitting 5th doesn’t seem much better. (On Opening Day, Hillman did just this, though he had Teahen 6th and Gload 7th.) Neverthless, Hillman’s lineup scores 4.802 according to the simulator, only six or seven runs less over the course of the season that the lineup above. As with all these discussions, the most important thing to remember is just that: discounting obviously insane choices (TPJ leadoff!), we are dealing with very small marginal differences when it comes to batting order. Those six or seven lost runs might easily be re-gained if you believe in psychological factors or if L/R ordering can be readjusted a little bit, or perhaps in the occasional instance of another player really and truly getting better pitches because of the guy on deck.
To conclude however, while lineup order is actually many many times more irrelevant than it is commonly made out to be, it is not entirely irrelevant. While running the risk of comparing apples to oranges, I'd hazard to guess that, over the season, smart lineup design is still more valuable than having a good locker room, or having players "know their roles" or how many crunches Hillman made guys do in Spring Training. Moreover, for teams on the very edge of contention, those six or seven runs may very well be the difference between the playoffs and an early off-season. Then again, for teams in that situation, every small detail matters, and its a truism to say so.
Still, it's frustrating that there's less creativity throughout the game regarding lineups, but you can say that about many things going on in baseball, most of which are more important. Particularly, the spreading out your very good and very bad hitters concept, seems at once illogical and intuitively sound. In other activities, we do this naturally and to great effect, although the benefit seems more emotional than quantitative. For whatever reason, baseball doesn't have a Don Nelson or a Bill Walsh, and hasn't in a long time. Someone who sees the same players and does something completely different. In baseball, we have Tony La Russa, who has given us the one-inning, handle with care, only use in one situation closer, and the situational lefty. Why it has worked out this way, I don't know. That remains a topic for another day.
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23 comments
Comments
I really like the idea of Butler batting second
Both because it is part of the optimal lineup and because it makes for a good L-R-L in this kind of lineup:
DeJesus L
Butler R
Gordon L
Guillen R
Teahen L
Buck R
Gload L
Grudz R
Pena R
By the way, according to our good friends at Baseball Prospectus the difference in run scoring over the course of a season for the optimal lineup vs. the worst lineup (TPJ leading off, Butler last, etc.) is about 24 runs or 2 1/2 wins. Usually the difference between the optimal lineup and the actual lineup a manager uses is less than one win.
I probably disagree with you.
by NYRoyal on Apr 2, 2008 6:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
They have run the sims, but no tool on their site. They devote a whole chapter to this issue in their book
"Baseball Between the Numbers". They talk about running thousands of computer sims (basically the same as this baseball musings tool) and the various results they got from it.
I probably disagree with you.
by NYRoyal on Apr 2, 2008 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Such a good book.
I have that one also. I loved the study that they did on clutchiness, too.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places/
by NHZ on Apr 2, 2008 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lineup
For the most part I agree and I would actually be happy if that was the lineup that Trey ran out there 4 times a week or so. The one switch that I could see possible would be Teahen and Gordon, but that is only if Teahen continues to show good plate discipline and drawing walks like he did late in ST I believe and if Gordon continues to show a lacking knowledge of the strike zone. I know some calls may have been bad, but if you have two strikes and it's close, there's a chance that the ump is going to ring you up.
Disclaimer: Comments may not be suitable for young children or women who are pregnant, or women who think they may be pregnant. Side effects could include nausea, dizziness, or yelling at the monitor in disbelief.
by MileHighKCfan on Apr 2, 2008 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that lineup looks pretty nice
Though I'd still rather have Callaspo in for either Grudz or Pena, especially when flyball guys like Greinke is on the mound. (Grudz hot start notwithstanding.)
This space intentionally left blank.
by marbotty on Apr 3, 2008 4:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd love that lineup
It would impress me greatly to see Trey pull that out.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Apr 3, 2008 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So far no manager thinks that far outside the box
I probably disagree with you.
by NYRoyal on Apr 3, 2008 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
mixin' and matchin'
I too am intrigued by that idea. In a sick way, we should just stick TPJ in between butler and gordon and have him bunt 140 times a season. Better than what he's doing otherwise.
I wanna know what love is, I want you to show me
by LeoBloom on Apr 2, 2008 6:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Surprisingly
I didn't actually grimace when I read that, I actually said "Hm, that could actually work". Of course, it would probably be better served in the N.L. or over in Japan as giving up outs that regularly in the A.L. seems hard to fathom.
Disclaimer: Comments may not be suitable for young children or women who are pregnant, or women who think they may be pregnant. Side effects could include nausea, dizziness, or yelling at the monitor in disbelief.
by MileHighKCfan on Apr 2, 2008 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To me
Butler seems like too quality of an RBI guy to put in the two hole. Now three-hole? That is a different story. He seems perfect for that.
by I need more Esteban on Apr 2, 2008 6:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
but he can drive in DDJ right off the bat
I wanna know what love is, I want you to show me
by LeoBloom on Apr 2, 2008 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why not DDJ
and our early BA leader, Grudzy!
by I need more Esteban on Apr 2, 2008 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it's all about OBP, baby
And I think Butler has a good chance to put up a significantly above average one.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
by NHZ on Apr 2, 2008 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would hazard a guess
That Trey-san won't be monkeying with the line-up as long as we are undefeated. 162-0, baby!
Success is counted sweetest by those who ne'er succeed. - Emily Dickinson
by buddyball on Apr 2, 2008 6:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I need an avatar
sorry, just needed to say that
Disclaimer: Comments may not be suitable for young children or women who are pregnant, or women who think they may be pregnant. Side effects could include nausea, dizziness, or yelling at the monitor in disbelief.
by MileHighKCfan on Apr 2, 2008 6:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I envision something like snow-capped mountains for you.
I probably disagree with you.
by NYRoyal on Apr 2, 2008 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Spend My
Work days looking at the second tallest coastal mountain range in the world with an 11,000'+ active volcano in the center of my view.
Let's go, boys, to the toppermost of the poppermost!
by philofthenorth on Apr 2, 2008 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I spend my
work days looking at a poster of Alaska!
Success is counted sweetest by those who ne'er succeed. - Emily Dickinson
by buddyball on Apr 2, 2008 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I spend my work days looking out my window across the Harlem River and into the Bronx.
Talk about natural beauty!
I probably disagree with you.
by NYRoyal on Apr 2, 2008 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We Are A
Part of nature, and our creations are so by extension. Plastic is a natural occurrence.
Let's go, boys, to the toppermost of the poppermost!
by philofthenorth on Apr 3, 2008 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sweet Lou
Lou Piniella already tinkering with his lineup
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Apr 3, 2008 12:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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