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The Royals Are 3-0

The Royals are 3-0. Deal with it, America.

And no, this isn't the second time in twenty eight years thats happened -- as was reported on Baseball Tonight, last night, about 2-0 -- it's the second time in five years actually.

Someone call Desi Relaford, Ken Harvey and Michael Tucker.

Star-divide

Quick hits as we celebrate:

  • It's three games. It's three games. If this were an NFL season, by my calculations, we'd be about two minutes into the second quarter of the first game.
  • The team is not winning because of small-ball, attitude, or Tiger complacency, they are winning because of absurd pitching. Period. The offense has been adequate, but not even that good. In 29 innings, the Tigers scored five runs. I could have been the leadoff man and Jenn Sterger could have hit cleanup this series, and the Royals would likely have still won all three games.
  • The bullpen threw nine innings against the Tigers, and allowed one run, the Tomko, surrendered homer in the Opener. Insane.
  • For the curious, 38% of the runs the Royals scored this series were courtesy of the long ball. Another 15% have come from doubles.
  • Some were suggesting, Denny included, that the ball was carrying today in Detroit. I don't know. I was in Iowa. That being said, it was Detroit and it was cold. The three starters -- Meche, Bannister, Greinke -- managed 12 strikeouts combined, which I still believe is a little too low. Twelve K's isn't hideously low, far from it, but, it still suggests the boys may have been a smidge fortunate. Thankfully, just like last season, the bullpen doesn't mess around and rely on guile.
  • As a team, the Royals drew seven walks in three games.
  • Tony Pena Jr is hitting .111/.111/.111. But his only hit was the game-winner on Opening Day. Obviously, he doesn't care about stats. He just cares about winning. I credit Hillman.

1 recs | Comment 123 comments

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Display:

Please

Don't call Ken Harvey.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Apr 3, 2008 4:38 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yep, only 3 games

any stat heads wanna tell me the last time we did three in a row? for the sweep? July 07?

it's hard to not be positive

it's the most wonderful time of the year...

The first thing I know about someone in a KC hat is that they're loyal.

by grantfunk on Apr 3, 2008 4:39 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Prediction:

We will not lose another game, so long as Angel Berroa is the last featured "100 Greatest Royals"

Sort of a good luck charm.

Or maybe more like garlic to a vampire.

Let's Go Blues!

by powderbluesfor08 on Apr 3, 2008 4:42 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Too late

Clint Hurdle # 63 article was already posted here, even though he's not yet listed in the Royals Review side-bar.

Not to mention that Max's (RoyalsRetro) own blog posts about 6 players ahead of what he re-posts here.

Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!

by cmkeller on Apr 3, 2008 4:46 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's okay

As long as Emil Brown is the last one featured on his blog, I think the principle holds.

by jonfmorse on Apr 3, 2008 4:47 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Heh

The next one coming up is really crappy too. Maybe the key is exorcising the demons of past Royals teams.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Apr 3, 2008 4:59 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

How crappy can he be

if he's ranked ahead of Raul Ibanez and Emil Brown, who for all that he represents three rotten seasons, was our RBI leader for 3 years running?

Are we talking about a poor player who racked up win shares through long service time like David Howard and Bill Pecota? U. L. Washington, maybe?

Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!

by cmkeller on Apr 3, 2008 5:08 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Unfortuantely

Yes. He is really awful. I am surprised to see him this high.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Apr 3, 2008 5:15 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Four years as a lineup regular

will get you pretty far on that list. After Patek, we had no one better at SS until Kurt Stillwell (and that's saying something right there!) Onix Concepcion? Buddy Biancalana? Angel Salazar? Yuk.

Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!

by cmkeller on Apr 3, 2008 5:20 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Just remember:

We still haven't seen Tom Goodwin or Brian McRae show up on the list yet. There are still stinkers in the pipeline.

by jonfmorse on Apr 3, 2008 5:22 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

McRae wasn't too bad

Terrible 1992, but otherwise solid, and had enough pop in his bat to get over 20 doubles every year, a lineup regular for 4-1/2 seasons.

I don't expect we'll see Goodwin. His service time with the Royals was roughly the same as Raul Ibanez's and his stats were considerably worse.

Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!

by cmkeller on Apr 3, 2008 5:32 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Odd

It felt like Goodwin was there for 38 years.

by jonfmorse on Apr 3, 2008 5:34 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The hitting

Without crunching the numbers, I think we hit pretty damn well considering that we faced Verlander, Rogers and Bonderman in one of the best pitcher's parks in baseball.

This team is pretty good.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Apr 3, 2008 4:42 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

point taken re: verlander

and maybe bonderman, not sure about Kenny in that group...

by royalsreview on Apr 3, 2008 4:44 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Kenny's human

But he's kinda given us fits in the past.

by jonfmorse on Apr 3, 2008 4:48 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My point was that the Royals faced one great pitcher, one good pitcher and one pretty good pitcher

...in a great pitcher's park. One shouldn't expect a massive offensive explosion from any team in such circumstances.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Apr 3, 2008 4:48 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Good point on the pitchers (with an assist to the Detroit bullpen)

After moving the fences a few years ago, however, Comerica plays as a neutral park these days.

by Gopherballs on Apr 3, 2008 4:56 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

last year in July

the royals won the final two games in Boston, then came to Detroit and won the first game there

that was probably the best three game stretch all year, in terms of competition

by royalsreview on Apr 3, 2008 4:45 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Great Post, Will

I was just re-reading the opening post to the game 3 thread as well.

I just want to thank you for doing this, day in and day out. I went 15 years here in Seattle and in the Navy not finding a Royals friend, and now I have a place to come and read great information with dashes of sarcasm and humor, while bantering with fellow fans.

Really, this could go under anyones post on this board, but you are certainly making it happen.

That being said, I guess I am a bit emotionally caught up in a season opening series sweep of the fatcat Tigers. But I wouldn't be a fan, if I wasn't. I'd just be an analyst.

Finally coming back to the 'K'!!!! I'm going to be there 7/11/08, vs the SEA Mariners, of course!

by RoyalsFanInMarinerTown on Apr 3, 2008 4:46 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

awww

where were you in the navy

by royalsreview on Apr 3, 2008 6:31 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Good Question ---

Boot camp - Great Lakes (Chicago Area), IL
Training - Great Lakes, IL, Virginia Beach, VA, Pensacola FL
Stationed - USS Abraham Lincoln (CVN-72) Everett, WA
USS Carl Vinson (CVN-70) Bremerton, WA
Naval Air Warfare Center, Point Mugu, CA

1 6th month deployment and 1 10 month deployment under my belt, in which I was able to visit Hong Kong, Pearl Harbor, Singapore, Thailand, United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Italy, Spain, the Azores, Perth/Sydney/Hobart Australia, and last (and certainly the least in my mind) Bali.

Finally coming back to the 'K'!!!! I'm going to be there 7/11/08, vs the SEA Mariners, of course!

by RoyalsFanInMarinerTown on Apr 4, 2008 12:33 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

New win total prediciton...

the Royals will obtain 67 wins by June.

HOLY CRAP THIS "WINNING" THING IS AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If the Royals don't look out, I'm going to start expecting them to win. Those are dangerous expectations my friend.

Blown Save

by BlownSave on Apr 3, 2008 4:56 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hey Will

I live in Iowa too (I go to Grinnell College) and I was just wondering if you had access to the games on tv? MLB.tv blacks out Royals games in my area.

by RoyalFlush on Apr 3, 2008 4:57 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

no, I had not heard that

that is insanely lame that they do that, if they consider iowa the royals home territory, they might as well also consider NY

i basically don't watch the games on TV, unless some coincidence makes it possible

last season i had the online radio thing, which was definitely worth it

by royalsreview on Apr 3, 2008 7:04 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

DirecTV

It's fun, it's easy, it's downright unaffordable for a college student but maybe your mom will help! :P

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Apr 4, 2008 12:36 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

MLB sucks

In my zip code in Iowa MLB blacks out the Brewers, both Chicago teams, the Twins, the Cardinals, and the Royals. Of course, only the Cardinals games are on TV here. I guess I'll just stick with radio and gamecast until the summer when I go back to KS and get the games on TV. I would love the DirecTV thing, but I live in the dorms where it is impossible to get.

by RoyalFlush on Apr 4, 2008 4:15 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

slingbox....

Have you looked into setting up a slingbox in your kansas residence? This would get you around the blackouts..

by KCctrell85 on Apr 4, 2008 8:30 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

thats what I plan on doing

but I won't be back in Kansas for awhile, so that's the plan for next season. I think I'm screwed this season

by RoyalFlush on Apr 4, 2008 10:41 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think this series was emblematic of what we'll see from them this year

Not a 1.000 winning percentage, but this is how they'll succeed. I don't think anyone thought this team was going to win its games by being a 1,000-run scoring offense, or even 900, or probably even 800. They are going to succeed with good pitching and sufficient offense to get the wins. That isn't the profile of a playoff team, but it is the profile of a .500ish team.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Apr 3, 2008 5:03 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Arizona...

... wasn't the profile of a playoff team either and they won the most competitive division in baseball last season. (They won a series too.)

Blown Save

by BlownSave on Apr 3, 2008 5:05 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It was a competitive division, but not a good division. There were no really good teams in that division.

The AL Central has the Tigers and Indians. It will be hard for the Royals to squeak through.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Apr 3, 2008 5:20 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The Royals are now

the last undefated team in the major leagues. The Nats and Brewers just lost their games today.

Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!

by cmkeller on Apr 3, 2008 5:16 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Whoa

Now that is interesting

Finally coming back to the 'K'!!!! I'm going to be there 7/11/08, vs the SEA Mariners, of course!

by RoyalsFanInMarinerTown on Apr 3, 2008 5:17 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

if only

the sandwich round didnt exist

:(

Accidentally not thedude925 anymore. I do hate this new name.

by wildthang on Apr 3, 2008 10:22 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The sandwich picks really screw bad teams trying to rebuild themselves

But this year it helps the Royals get 3 picks in the top 50 overall.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Apr 3, 2008 10:35 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I have a feeling the RCI would be through the roof right now

A 3-0 start is a hell of a drug.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Apr 3, 2008 5:35 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

although it was a typo

I think that in a game in which he opposing team scores just one run, referring to that run as "The Tomko" is a pretty durned good idea.

This space intentionally left blank.

by marbotty on Apr 3, 2008 5:41 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

MLB.com article

Imagine, the Royals in first place.

"We're going to get used to it," Gordon said.

Gotta love that confidence baby!

Disclaimer: Comments may not be suitable for young children or women who are pregnant, or women who think they may be pregnant. Side effects could include nausea, dizziness, or yelling at the monitor in disbelief.

by MileHighKCfan on Apr 3, 2008 6:17 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Historic Series

What's more impressive is that they held the Tigers to just 5 runs over the three game span. In all the three-game series' between the two, the Royals kept the Tigers to five runs only twice (2002 and 1988). Of the Tigers who played that series in 2002, only one batter had ever been on an All Star team (Robert Fick 1). This season's Tigers? A combined 41 All Star appearances (Ivan Rodriguez 14, Gary Sheffield 9, Magglio Ordonez 6, Edgar Renteria 5, Miguel Cabrera 4, Carlos Guillen 2, Placido Polanco 1).

Read more on this series at my blog: TomsBombs.blogspot.com

by habetw4 on Apr 3, 2008 6:21 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The news keeps getting worse for Detroit

Sheffield apparently tore a tendon in his finger during today's game. His status is uncertain. Bonds might have found a job.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Apr 3, 2008 6:42 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i want to see bonds keep playing

I might be the only one, but i honestly do

of course, that will also mean coverage of bonds, and more posturing, and more delirious OH MY HE WAS BOOED stories, but nevertheless

by royalsreview on Apr 3, 2008 7:08 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

PED's or no, he's an ass

Quite frankly, I think the public rebuke he has received is the most fitting punishment for his juicing. I really doubt he's been blackballed. If a team with the money to get him wanted him, they would have signed him by now. And if someone comes to have a real need for him, they'll snatch him up. I don't look forward to him playing again because he's one of MLB's biggest arrogant jerks. Mostly I just hope he doesn't come to the AL Central.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Apr 3, 2008 7:11 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

if he can play, and wants to play

he should play. suppositions about his character are irrelevant to me.

by 390 on Apr 4, 2008 12:34 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah.

Last time I checked, Ty Cobb was in the Hall of Fame.

by jonfmorse on Apr 4, 2008 12:36 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If 1) he can play, and 2) wants to play, AND

3) a MLB team wants to pay him the millions it would take to get him to play.

While the market for him at this time appears to be completely inactive, Bonds pride would not allow him to sign for something like $1M (in my opinion). He sees himself as a great star who deserves star money. Given his age and the limited market for him, he'd certainly give what he sees as a discount. So I think it would take $7+ million to sign him.

Pretty much everyone sees him as a DH only at this point, and rightly so. So how many AL teams
1) Need a DH upgrade
2) Can afford his price tag, and
3) Are close enough to contention that such an outlay makes sense for them

I can't think of one. THAT is the reason he hasn't been signed yet.

The fact that he's one of the biggest A-holes in baseball isn't the reason he hasn't been signed, it is just a reason that I'm happy he hasn't been signed. Back in the day, I would have been happy for Ty Cobb to be out of a job, even though he was extremely talented.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Apr 4, 2008 12:42 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

do you

1) possibly have a 2) chip on your shoulder about this 3) whole thing?

i see about 15 weird assumptions in the above post. if i'm bonds, yes, i'd want to be paid, because a-hole or no he'll put butts in seats. that's not about some very strange assumption about his sense of pride, imo. i'm not an apologist for bonds, but you're laying on the judgement frosting pretty thick (again, imo).

by 390 on Apr 4, 2008 1:08 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Is it a chip on my shoulder to think that he wants big money?

Some players would for whatever the market will bear. Some players just want to play, so if the market will only offer them $1-2M, they'll take it. I don't think Bonds is like that. I don't think anyone thinks Bonds is like that. He has a high opinion of his value. He has always had a high opinion of his value. Like it or not, Barry Bonds is an arrogant jerk. I don't base this on his steroid use. I (and pretty much everyone else) recognized this long before the steroid rumors started circling. That's just part of his makeup. There are a lot of A-holes in baseball (A.J. Pierzynski, Jose Guillen, Milton Bradley, etc.) and Bonds is at the top of the list.

I don't see why people feel the need to rush to his defense. What he is is pretty clear:

1) A great and extremely talented baseball player
2) On the downside of his career
3) An arrogant jerk
4) A PED user/abuser

Whether he plays this year or not depends on whether his skills and price tag fit into any AL team's plans. So far, they do not. And that makes me happy.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Apr 4, 2008 1:39 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

"I don't see why people feel the need to rush to his defense."

ignoring assumptions about character is hardly a rush to defense. what's clear is that you really, really dislike the man. i think that calls your objectivity into question.

by 390 on Apr 4, 2008 2:47 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Huh?

I'm certainly speculating as to what he's thinking, but my feelings on Bonds are based on his words and actions. And my opinion on what he's thinking and what he wants/needs in a contract in order to play is based on what he has done throughout his career.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Apr 4, 2008 3:00 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

your feelings and opinions

are just that - you tend to present them as undeniable fact. it's called bias.

by 390 on Apr 4, 2008 3:37 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I expressed them as opinions

While these are obviously opinions, to make sure that was clear, I sprinkled in phrases like "in my opinion" and "I think". I am, of course, speculating on his mindset. He and I don't have heart-to-heart talks very often.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Apr 4, 2008 3:45 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

my point is

you made your mind up about bonds a LONG time ago. you don't like him, and that colors your opinions about his present abilities. the reason bonds hasn't been signed has nothing to do with the level of talent he has, today (imo, of course).

by 390 on Apr 4, 2008 3:53 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Why do you think he hasn't been signed?

I think it is talent (defensive), age, fragility and money.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Apr 4, 2008 3:56 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

he's a big headache

for whoever signs him. the question is whether he's worth the hassle, not the money.

by 390 on Apr 4, 2008 4:00 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

For a lot of teams, $7M (theoretically) is a lot of money

...that they apparently don't want to spend on a guy with Bonds limitations and negatives (which include, but are not limited to the hassle).

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Apr 4, 2008 4:05 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

taking into account

the market rate for a similar line, the hassle is the limiting factor.

by 390 on Apr 4, 2008 4:06 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

you guys realize . . .

the tigers are about to fall to 0-4!!!!

we could have a four game lead over them by tomorrow morning.

lets enjoy our royals and forget about bonds.

by royalstern05 on Apr 4, 2008 4:10 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Or we could do both!

Actually, I'm about Bonds'd out. He'll get signed or he won't. Who knows. I hope he gets bunions.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Apr 4, 2008 4:12 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Interesting...

Apparently after a while when the posts get far enough over to the right, the replies don't get indented anymore.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Apr 4, 2008 4:13 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

bonds'd out

yep...

just a friendly argument though - i enjoyed it.

by 390 on Apr 4, 2008 4:14 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Me too

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Apr 4, 2008 4:29 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If Adam Dunn, Raul Ibanez, and Pat Burrell are good enough to play left field regularly in 2008, then so is Bonds, as we was actually better than any of those guys defensively last year. Bonds isn't spry anymore but he's no butcher out there.

Of course using Bonds as a DH would make sense for a lot of AL teams, as he would indeed represent a substantial "DH upgrade" for the majority of them. But even if he signs with an AL team, he's likely to see some time in the outfield, because the value of another bat in the lineup would be greater than the value of a better glove in left.

Anyway, there's really no reasonable argument that Bonds doesn't suit somebody's needs. I'm with Joe Sheehan on this one -- he'd make just about any team better.

by 2X2L on Apr 4, 2008 1:43 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Bonds

Even factoring in defense if he had to play the field, Bonds would be an immediate upgrade over what Cleveland, Detroit, Toronto, Tampa Bay, Seattle, Anaheim, Oakland, and Texas have in LF or DH (and that is just AL teams). With his trial pushed back, he would be available for the full season.

I think Oakland hangs around in a weak AL West and ends up signing Bonds.

by Gopherballs on Apr 4, 2008 2:10 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My guess is that a contending team with high expectations that underperforms in its first 50 or so games will sign him. Whatever flak they might take for it would be a temporary hazard; fans looking at a chance at a championship but a deficit in either the standings or on the roster will embrace him as means to get to the playoffs.

The Tigers could find themselves in that position, with Sheffield taking pitches like a hitter whose bat speed is largely a matter of reputation. So could the Cubs, who could probably work up a defensive alignment with Soriano somewhere other than left.

by 2X2L on Apr 4, 2008 2:46 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The Tigers also have the history

of ignoring Selig and going well over slot in the draft.

by Gopherballs on Apr 4, 2008 2:53 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

When Oakland is rebuilding, why would they spend millions of dollars on any one-year free agents?

So they can win 83 games this year instead of 78? Beane clearly isn't looking to contend this year or he wouldn't have traded Haren. Now he's likely shopping Harden and/or Blanton. The A's are going to be sellers, not buyers. Beane knows how to commit to rebuilding and not waste money to buy a few more meaningless wins.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Apr 4, 2008 3:07 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The AL West is lousy this year, especially with the Angels' injuries

85-86 wins may win the division. Most of the talent the A's acquired in the offseason is near major league ready, so the A's are likely to have a better team by mid-year just through internal promotions. Plus, nobody is better than Beane at finding talent off the scrap heap during the year.

by Gopherballs on Apr 4, 2008 3:19 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I really doubt Beane is going to go all out in a rebuilding effort in the offseason

And then suddenly change course during the season and go with a "win now" strategy. Expect more trades and no multi-million dollar signings.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Apr 4, 2008 3:46 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You are underestimating the A's chances this year

PECOTA Projected Standings
AL West W L RS RA
Angels 85 77 806 777
Athletics 80 82 731 751 (without Bonds or external upgrades)
Mariners 75 87 687 748
Rangers 73 89 780 867

He did not go "all out" rebuilding, as he held onto Blanton, Harden, Street, etc.

by Gopherballs on Apr 4, 2008 3:56 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

When you trade away your best starting pitcher and best hitter for guys who won't help the team much at all this year

...then you are 100% into a rebuilding mode. He also signed bargain basement place fillers like Brown and Sweeney. That tells me that part of his rebuilding strategy is saving money for the future, when they genuinely are contending.

Beane isn't the kind of GM who would trade away his best players in Swisher and Haren for prospects and then change course in midseason by spending a lot of money on a one-year guy like Bonds.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Apr 4, 2008 4:00 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You forget the Hudson and Mulder deals

Beane has money to spend and if the A's are in contention, he will be allowed to use it.

by Gopherballs on Apr 4, 2008 4:03 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So all of these teams are taking a moral stand on Bonds and are intentionally refusing to sign a player they know would upgrade their team?

I don't buy that for a second. There are two reasons he's a DH only:

1) Poor defense
2) Fragility

If he plays in the field for very long at all, he's likely to come up injured yet again, then the $7+ million some team spends on him would be entirely wasted.

Again, someone tell me which team needs a DH upgrade, and is close enough to contending where spending $7+ million makes sense for them.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Apr 4, 2008 3:05 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I've said nothing about why I think no one has signed him yet. Is that something you want to talk about or do you want to continue to set up strawmen and then knock them down?

To answer your points: the quality of his defense has been established. It's better than several regular left fielders playing regularly right now, which is to say that it's comfortably within the established range of major league quality. Lower end, sure. But within.

About his health and availability: he hasn't demonstrated fragility, i.e. that he's prone to frequent injury. Every indication is that his knee problems of 2005 left him slower and achier but not prone to recurring injury. For example, he played the 2nd highest total of defensive innings among Giants' outfielders just last year.

What he has demonstrated is the need for longer recovery times than MLB schedules allow, so you can't play him every day. You can't play him defensively in a day game after a night game, for example. As a DH, however, he might be able to play 6 games a week.

Seattle is the most obvious answer to your question as you've framed it. So let me ask you a question: do you really think that Seattle has chosen to stick with Jose Vidro as their primary DH and not sign Bonds solely for the reasons you've mentioned?

by 2X2L on Apr 4, 2008 3:27 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He played 110 games in LF last year

and ranked as a better fielder than Manny, Burrell, and Ibanez. Detroit can bench their LF platoon and switch Sheffield and Bonds between DH and LF. Toronto is playing Matt Stairs in LF, so defense is not a priority for them. Cleveland can play Bonds in LF and give him spot starts at DH with Hafner playing 1B or getting a day off. Seattle is using Vidro at DH. Anaheim is using Matthews. Oakland is using Sweeney and Johnson. In about a month, Texas can move Bradley to OF and open up DH.

by Gopherballs on Apr 4, 2008 3:28 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

2X2L and Gopherballs

As you've shown, he has to be handled very carefully in order to be kept healthy enough to play. And at his age, recovering times get longer and susceptibility to injury increases. He's a year older, which means a year worse and a year more fragile. A poor defensive LFer who can't play everyday, who really should just be a DH isn't worth $7M to many teams. I don't think he's worth it to any team this year, at least until some DH on a contending team goes on the DL for a long time.

do you really think that Seattle has chosen to stick with Jose Vidro as their primary DH and not sign Bonds solely for the reasons you've mentioned?

Yes. The alternative is that they think he's a significant upgrade who is worth the big money that it will take to sign him and that they think they can afford it, but they aren't signing him for moral reasons or because all of the teams have gotten together with MLB and decided to blackball him. I think my reasons are more likely than either of the latter two.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Apr 4, 2008 3:42 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think your $7 million assumption is faulty

A team can also protect itself with an incentive heavy deal -- Bonds only makes $7 million (or whatever figure you want to make up) if he gets 350, 400, 450, 500+ PA.

by Gopherballs on Apr 4, 2008 3:59 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It is mere speculation on my part

Teams could protect themselves with an incentive-laden deal if Bonds would take it. Most players value themselves by the contracts they sign. I don't think Bonds would lower himself to sign a $2M deal with incentives that would push it up to $7M. He wouldn't want to read the stories in the paper and watch on ESPN when they say "Bonds signs a $2M contract." That's my read of him.

I have a strong feeling that multiple teams contacted Bonds agent in the offseason to feel him out and see what kind of money and role he would require. His agent probably reported that he wanted big guaranteed money and he wanted to play in the OF. That's the kind of thing which would lead to no offers.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Apr 4, 2008 4:03 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think Bonds would do the Clemens contract

where he signs a "$X million" contract, but is much less when pro-rated.

by Gopherballs on Apr 4, 2008 4:05 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Agreed

The open questions are how much X equals and who he'd be willing to play for.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Apr 4, 2008 4:09 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't think he's worth it to any team this year

So basically it doesn't matter that we've already shown, backed by the data we have about his performance from last year, that this is dead wrong. You'll choose to think so anyway.

I don't have a problem with that. It pretty much renders further discussion pointless, however.

by 2X2L on Apr 4, 2008 5:13 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Further discussion is, indeed pointless

I hope you don't think that your "data" proves that he's a great benefit to multiple teams and that he'd definitely be worth the money it takes to get him. Clearly you are convinced. Clearly I am not. Clearly 30 MLB teams are not. This guy is full of negatives. And I'm not talking about intangibles. I'm talking about tangibles like his age, fragility, defensive abilities and cost. Those negatives are important considerations, as well as his OPS.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Apr 4, 2008 5:17 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Clearly 30 MLB teams are not.

No. The only thing that's clear is that 30 teams have passed on signing him to date.

You've said you think the reason for this is because they don't value him enough to justify the cost, mainly because you find the possible alternate reasons less likely. You've enumerated the alternates as follows: 1) observance of a moral stance and 2) some form of collusion.

This is false reasoning. There are other possible reasons, and I think that none of the ones you've enumerated is especially likely. I'll follow up with 390 later on when I get a chance.

by 2X2L on Apr 4, 2008 5:42 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Why do you think he hasn't been signed by any team?

I've yet to see you put forth any suggestion for why he hasn't been signed.

By the way, just because you disagree with an argument doesn't make it "false reasoning." We are both putting forth sound reasoning. Two well reasoned positions can be in opposition to each other.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Apr 4, 2008 5:45 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Your reasoning isn't false because I disagree with it. It's false because it's faulty.

by 2X2L on Apr 4, 2008 5:47 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oh please

"If I think you're wrong, then your reasoning must be faulty."

They haven't signed Bonds because they don't like the overall mix of his negatives and positives. But if you disagree with that, then my reasoning must be faulty! Please

So why hasn't he been signed yet?

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Apr 4, 2008 6:02 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

See below.

Your reasoning is faulty because any attempt to apply a process of elimination is faulty in which the possibilities aren't fully enumerated.


they don't like the overall mix of his negatives and positives.

I can't argue against that -- it's vague enough to be unassailable. I can and did argue against the specific negatives that you cited earlier: his defense and his susceptibility to injury.

by 2X2L on Apr 4, 2008 7:26 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

you'll have better luck

convincing rush limbaugh that hillary is a nice person.

by 390 on Apr 4, 2008 5:27 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Indeed

Our debates on this site tend to be more about a lively exchange of ideas than about changing each other's minds.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Apr 4, 2008 5:42 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

a little discouraging

"Our debates on this site tend to be more about a lively exchange of ideas than about changing each other's minds."

there really is no debate if both sides are completely inflexible about their positions. that gets boring fast, and results in the wearying goal of "winning" every argument, shouldn't we be trying learn a bit here and there? don't you really want a fuzzy little barry doll to sleep with?

by 390 on Apr 5, 2008 2:37 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I was going to reply above but the indenting was getting severe. Here are my thoughts about Bonds' status.

I don’t think you have to look very far for reasons why Bonds isn’t signed, because the same two reasons that sway these organizations in most of their other decisions are sufficient to explain this outcome as well: 1) they are risk-averse and 2) they compete only for resources that are perceived to be scarce.

1) Contracts for management positions are relatively short, the people who fill those positions are typically scapegoated when things go wrong, and performance on the field can fall short of expectations for a wide variety of reasons beyond management's control, in spite of best intentions, solid planning, and good execution on the part of the front office. Result: anyone in a position of responsibility is naturally reluctant to do anything that's widely perceived as risky. Dayton Moore has been unusual in this regard, but he has been operating in an environment of lower expectations, and perhaps even he might become more risk-averse after experiencing a period of improved performance.

Regarding Bonds, it's "common knowledge" that Bonds is a cancer, so much so that the number of folks who subscribe to the position that the Giants will play better without him this year are legion -- even my mailman says so, and he's otherwise a pretty reasonable guy. (Also he's the only other Royals and Giants fan I know personally.) If a team signs Bonds and falls short of expectations, regardless of the actual causes, the Guy Who Signs Bonds will be scapegoated for bringing all that negative energy into the room. Even if it's total hogwash, as most people will assume it isn't.

In sum: even a GM who knows that Bonds can help his team (and I think that this is most of them) also knows that signing Bonds 1) doesn't guarantee success and 2) opens the door to very undesirable fallout in the event of failure. The risk, very simply, outweighs the reward.

At least it has from the time he filed for free agency last fall through opening day, and it will continue to do so right up until a team gets finds itself in a position in which goals that seemed obtainable during the offseason start to seem elusive, because of unanticipated injury or other shortfalls in performance. At that point the assumption of risk will become acceptable, even laudable.

This is the same reason that prospects that teams refuse to part with in the offseason become movable quantities in the heat of a pennant race. If you make a failed trade when your team isn't in peril, you're an idiot. But if you make the same failed trade when it restores hope of a flag, you made a laudable effort. (Of course you'd better make some good trades eventually or you'll lose your job anyway.)

2) Given the risk-aversion noted above, why make a move today when you think you'll still be able to make the same move tomorrow? In other words, if every GM thinks every other GM will hold off on Bonds (as every team's situation, still early in the year, is far from dire anyway), there's very little incentive for them to get something done.

That's it. Those are the two reasons I think he's unsigned.

In the end, I wouldn't be the least surprised if Team A in a good situation in June, say, signs him as soon as Team B that's performing below expectations falls significantly behind, because GM A will start to perceive Bonds as a desirable commodity to Team B. In that scenario, the reward of blocking Team B's recovery plan might be perceived as outweighing the risk.

by 2X2L on Apr 4, 2008 7:15 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think your reasoning is faulty

;)

If they thought he would upgrade their team, that they wanted that upgrade and that he was worth the money he costs, they would sign him in a second.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Apr 4, 2008 8:10 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You can think what you want. However, if you wish to disagree, unless you respond to the two very specific reasons I raised for them to postpone signing him in spite of his value on the field, you will probably fail to engage my interest.

1-0 in the first. Time to hop over to the game thread.

by 2X2L on Apr 4, 2008 8:21 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Believe it or not, I'm not responding to "engage your interest"

I find your agument unpersuasive because, as I said above, if they thought he would upgrade their team, and if they wanted his particular upgrade and if they though he was worth what he cost, then they would sign him in a second, period. I'm sure you find my reasoning faulty. Thats' cool. I'm done.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Apr 4, 2008 8:59 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think

Baseball Tonight was saying that it was the first time in 20 years the royals have started off 3-0 on the road which is true.

I love life. Life = Royals

by focs on Apr 3, 2008 6:57 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

possibly

I mean, when i heard it, i was really annoyed, because it wasn't just wrong, it was REALLY wrong, so you are probably right

i heard stuff all the time on different broadcasts about the royals not having had a winning season since the strike or, whatever, 2003 is frequently overlooked

it was a fluke, but it did happen

by royalsreview on Apr 3, 2008 7:07 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's what separates us from the Pirates

Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!

by cmkeller on Apr 3, 2008 7:19 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

take that

pittstain.

The first thing I know about someone in a KC hat is that they're loyal.

by grantfunk on Apr 3, 2008 7:39 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Q:

Anyone know how often they'll be wearing these?

Congrats to the Royals on the great start. In news that will interest no one, I'm jumping on the burgeoning bandwagon by making the Royals my second favorite team.

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Apr 3, 2008 7:42 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Welcome

watch out for dropping jaws.

The first thing I know about someone in a KC hat is that they're loyal.

by grantfunk on Apr 3, 2008 7:48 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Greinke

I wasn't able to tune in today.. I know class is no excuse.. but I was wondering how Greinke looked today? His line looks good enough (thought he would have more Ks to hold them to 1 run but whatever..) but I wanted to know if he looked dominant or was the benefactor of good defense or what?

by KCctrell85 on Apr 3, 2008 7:52 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He didn't dominate by way of the strikeout, no, but he was plenty good enough to prevent the Tigers from striking the ball with authority, except for the 3-1 pitch he grooved to Inge and whatever it was that Ordonez murdered for a Comerica double.

by 2X2L on Apr 3, 2008 9:31 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I am insanely happy!!

I'm giddy. Like I said yesterday, KC is becoming a baseball town again. Looks like this season could be quite interesting. We're not winning the division, but we're going to be breaking some hearts. Let's not forget that the Twins are not as potent as they have been in year's past. We could win 2 or even all 3 of those games if our pitching keeps showing up. A 6-0 start heading into KC on Monday would be huge!!

by royaldaddy on Apr 3, 2008 9:39 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

wow

i may send him an email

by royalsreview on Apr 4, 2008 4:40 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Fantasy update:

He's on my bench, oh well!

Bill Hall has 2 bombs and 5 rbi today.

by royalstern05 on Apr 4, 2008 4:19 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Former Royal garbage update:

Mark Redman has already loaded the bases and allowed 1 run in the top of the 1st against the D-backs - he's only retired one and is still laboring.

by royalstern05 on Apr 4, 2008 4:21 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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