DeJesus Trade Rumors?

• DeJesus is just all right: The Royals would seem more likely to trade a relief pitcher or two than a position player before the deadline. But one Royals regular about whom we're starting to hear other teams speculate is center fielder David DeJesus. GM Dayton Moore told Rumblings that at this stage in the Royals' development, "we'll evaluate anything." But though Moore won't talk specifically about any potential deal, he did say, "David DeJesus is a guy you can win with." Also, DeJesus' contract is so club-friendly (with salaries of $3.6 million, $4.7 million and $6 million through 2011), the Royals would need to get a spectacular offer to persuade them to move one of their more consistent players.

Sounds like a lot of teams are interested in him, but it would take a really great deal to get DM to trade one of his better bats. Not sure we can afford to part with one of our only decent bats. Sounds like DM wants to trade arms instead.

3 months ago RoyalsRetro Comment 52 comments 1 recs |

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I'd trade him for...

1. Younger, good hitting corner OFer
2. Younger, very good hitting 1B
3. Younger good SS

If this younger player is a prospect (even if MLB-ready), then the other team is going to have to throw in something else in the package.

DeJesus so far has been on of the team’s better bats this year. I’m willing to trade some of this year for the future. As I’ve said many times before, Teahen and DeJesus are starting to look like the same player. We only need one of them.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on May 23, 2008 12:52 PM EDT 0 recs

would you do...

DeJesus for Lillibridge? Lillibridge has had a rough go this spring, but he’s still a good prospect. The Braves might not be a fit, but is that the caliber you think he could reap? More? Less? How about Andy LaRoche? He’s listed as a poor defensive 3B, so he could be an outfield corner or 1B candidate. Not sure if the Dodgers are ready to punt on Andruw Jones yet, and they’ve already got a glut in the OF, but nobody ever lost money overestimating the idiocy of Ned Colleti. The Brewers could use a lefty in their lineup—Matt LaPorta? Am I dreaming? If Edmonds spits the bit, could we get Vitters? He’s pretty hacktastic, but is he available? The Braves have a guy named Brandon Jones who could be interesting…

Hillman made some comments the other day about wanting to get Gathright more time in CF—it sounds like the Royals believe that Gathright’s a much better fielder than DeJesus which I’m not able to watch enough games in person to know.

by billexgordler on May 23, 2008 1:17 PM EDT up 0 recs

gathright

has more upside in CF than DDJ, but he isn’t as good yet.

I think im with the guys at MVN that DDJ is more valuable to this team people give him credit for as a consistent hitter at the top of the lineup, something we don’t really have a lot of. We can plan around upside all day and have the perfect team ready for 20XX, but we need to be competitive now to break the cycle of perception that we are a bad organization. hurts us in attendance, free agency, media coverage which ultimately effects Glass’s bottom line, and that matters as we all know.

by ZeppelinDZ on May 23, 2008 1:27 PM EDT up 0 recs

Gathright has little or no upside

At Gathright’s age, we can’t expect great improvement. And this season we’re seeing the opposite of improvement. Right now he appears to be an ok 4th/5th OFer. I really don’t think he is now or ever will be good enough to be a starting CFer (unless he goes to a team which doesn’t care about hitting at all).

I’m suggesting we trade DeJesus for someone who would upgrade the team overall in 2009 and beyond. That wouldn’t hurt attendance, free agncy, media coverage or anything else.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on May 23, 2008 1:47 PM EDT up 0 recs

+1

Talking out of my rear end (as always, after all, I’m a baseball fan!), I think Gathright’s upside is 4th OF. I know I don’t “see” everything on the field, but for all the talk about how fast he is in the outfield his RZR is consistently lower that DDJ’s (yeah, I know it’s a relativelly small sample size, but it’s all we’ve got). If TPJ wasn’t around, people would actually notice what a terrible hitter he is.

I like him, he’s fun, but from my (admittedly limited) perspective, it would be foolish to make moves based on the idea that Gathright could be an everyday starter.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on May 23, 2008 2:16 PM EDT up 0 recs

to clarify

i was speaking to his CF defense only, DDJ is now and will always be a better hitter

by ZeppelinDZ on May 23, 2008 2:22 PM EDT up 0 recs

The Royals...

are last again in the AL in attendance this year. People in KC go because it’s an event and something to do. Unfortunately no one has went for years because we’re competing for a playoff spot. With prices rising every year I just hope people don’t decide to spend their shrinking entertainment elsewhere.

by djk royal on May 23, 2008 1:52 PM EDT up 0 recs

I wouldn't trade any of those prospects for DeJesus straight up

A cheap, fairly young and proven major league player is worth more than those players. They are still prospects. Nobody knows if they’ll pan out. Most prospects fail. None of those guys are locks. DeJesus is locked down with a cheap contract for multiple years, so the Royals wouldn’t be trading a rental. We’d have to get equal value. None of those prospects is equal value.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on May 23, 2008 1:45 PM EDT up 0 recs

DeJesus is better than Teahen

I like the creativity of trying Teahen in CF, and while I doubt he would embarass himself in short stints there, he would cost runs over time. He just does not have the same instincts and range as DeJesus. The stats supports this. UZR had Teahen at +5 runs in RF, but DeJesus at +13 runs in CF. Before factoring in the significant degree of difficulty between the two positions, DeJesus is almost one win better than Teahen. Solidly above average corner outfielders become below average centerfielders—just ask Gary Matthews Jr. The difference in their defense is worth between one to two wins (10-20 runs) over the course of a season.

The other concern is that DeJesus can play everyday because he lacks Teahen’s significant platoon split. Platoons are easy to do at the corners, but more difficult in CF, so Teahen creates an additional roster construction difficulty.

This is not to say that DeJesus should be untouchable. He is not. But trading him is going to create a big hole at a premium position with a scarcity of available talent to replace him.

by Gopherballs on May 23, 2008 1:34 PM EDT up 0 recs

Teahen has had little time in the OF

I think he would improve with time and experience. And DeJesus has proven that he’s not quite an everyday player in that he spends time on the DL in every season. Taking all of this into consideration, I don’t think trading DeJesus would leave much of a hole in CF. I think Teahen would fill it nicely and, quite frankly, I think he’d hit a little better there over the next few years.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on May 23, 2008 1:42 PM EDT up 0 recs

+1

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on May 23, 2008 1:52 PM EDT up 0 recs

And while DeJesus has the edge defensively, I think Teahen is the better hitter

DeJesus
2006 108 OPS+
2007 89
2008 99

Teahen
2006 122
2007 98
2008 90

I’d be more than happy to have a better hitter with slightly worse defense in CF, as long as we get good value in trading DeJesus.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on May 23, 2008 1:55 PM EDT up 0 recs

DeJesus has the better career OPS+

DeJesus
2005 114 OPS+
Career 101 OP+

Teahen
2005 82 OPS+
Career 99 OPS+

As for defense, I just think we just disagree about Teahen’s defensive skills and the degree of difficulty between RF and CF.

by Gopherballs on May 23, 2008 2:39 PM EDT up 0 recs

I think that puts a little too much weight on a rookie year

2005 was Teahen’s rookie year. It’s pretty common for players to have poor rookie years. By 2005, DeJesus already had 108 MLB games under his belt. Also, Teahen is almost two full years younger than Dejesus. So, for 2009-2011, DeJesus will be 29-31, while Teahen will be 27-29. Given the better hitting we’ve seen from Teahen over the last 3 years, I’d rather have him in CF for the next 3 than DeJesus who is two years further down the development/decline curve.

And, again, this assumes obtaining something for DeJesus which fills an area of need. We’ve got two very similar players in DeJesus and Teahen and some significant holes on the team.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on May 23, 2008 2:48 PM EDT up 0 recs

It is also skewed

By Teahen’s 2006 season, which really looks like an outlier now.

I think DJ is better now, with a much greater chance to be more valuable in the future. I’m not even convinced Teahen will be a regular two years from now.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on May 23, 2008 3:15 PM EDT up 0 recs

Agreed

I’d take DDJ over Teahen.

Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.

by doublestix on May 23, 2008 4:30 PM EDT up 0 recs

Reality check: the Royals won't get much for DDJ

As of today (before tonight’s game), DDJ’s career OPS+ is 101. He’s neither the sort of player which would be greatly overvalued or undervalued by OPS+ despite the stat’s imperfections, so what exactly do you expect to get for a guy who embodies league mediocrity?

Nobody would trade a 1B or corner OF who could actually hit (meaning OPS+ of around 115) straight up for DDJ. Since most SS’s are below league average with the bat, that would be a reasonable possibility to get a SS with OPS+ around 85-90 (like Jason Bartlett, but not one who is also young and a former top organizational prospect like Lillibridge.

GMDM won’t be able to get anyone as good as, say, Buddy Bell for DDJ.

by Stat Ninja on May 23, 2008 7:57 PM EDT up 0 recs

my confidence in dayton moore takes another hit

by royalsreview on May 23, 2008 2:18 PM EDT 0 recs

You've gone and done it now...

Prepare for the onslaught.

by djk royal on May 23, 2008 2:20 PM EDT up 0 recs

What was it that did it?

“We’ll evaluate anything.”
or
“David DeJesus is a guy you can win with.”

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on May 23, 2008 2:29 PM EDT up 0 recs

we'll evaluate anything

I want him close minded

no seriously…i can see that DDJ actually might be a good guy to trade for all kinds of reasons, but unfortunately the royals don’t have a CF to replace him… and I still don’t trust Moore regarding all things gathright

by royalsreview on May 23, 2008 2:33 PM EDT up 0 recs

A couple of things

First, the article (or paragraph to be more accurate did not state or imply that Moore is shopping DeJesus. It said that other teams are interested and have speculated that he might be gettable. Moore basically responded by saying that he’d evaluate an offer he gets, as he should. So even if you hate the idea of trading DeJesus, I don’t know why the above “rumbling” would cause your confidence in Moore to take a hit.

Second, do you really think DeJesus should be off the table? Do you really think he is that irreplaceable? Teahen has good range and a better bat. If trading Dejesus can fill another hole (and fill it well), I’m all for it.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on May 23, 2008 2:39 PM EDT up 0 recs

do you think teahen can handle CF?

I used to think so. Now, I don’t know. He’s had a rough year defensively.

by royalsreview on May 23, 2008 2:50 PM EDT up 0 recs

Yes, I think he can

He had a rough transition to LF. I think most players are going to experience a transition period going to a new position. He also had a difficult month or two transition to RF last year and then he became much better. I think he’s been good in RF this year. I believe a few misreads have been blown out of proportion. And I think with more OF time, he’s going to become an even better defensive OFer. He’d be a downgrade from DeJesus defensively and an upgrade offensively. And, if we can get something good to fill an area of need on the team, I’d be happy to trade DeJesus and replace him with a player who is downgrade defensively (but who can handle the position) and is an upgrade offensively.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on May 23, 2008 2:53 PM EDT up 0 recs

Upgrade offensively?

If anything, he’s the same offensively. I think he has a chance to be worse, with a small potential to get better. I think they’re pretty even right now though.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on May 23, 2008 3:16 PM EDT up 0 recs

Teahen has been better over the past 3 years

While 2006 may look like an outlier for Teahen, I think 2008 so far is a bit of an outlier too.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on May 23, 2008 3:18 PM EDT up 0 recs

2008

Looks a lot like 2005 and 2007 to me. He’ll improve his SLG a bit this year, but he’s probably a .280/.350/.410 type hitter, which is just what DJ is.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on May 23, 2008 3:23 PM EDT up 0 recs

"which is just what DJ is"

My estimation of Teahen is a little better than that, but this is essentially my point. They are very similar players. Very, very similar. Therefore, one is tradeable. If we can get something good to fill a hole for one of them, do it.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on May 23, 2008 3:30 PM EDT up 0 recs

CF is easier than LF or RF...

especially as far as making the adjustment goes. The reads are easier: the point of view is greater and balls hit to center have less “life” than balls hit to the corners. Top-notch outfielders are in center more because of their great speed than any thing else. The only question, I think, becomes whether Teahan has the speed to cover center.

Also, is OPS+ adjusted for position? If so, then Teahan’s hitting would translate to a higher OPS+ if he were a CF. If we lose a little range for above replacement level offense, so be it.

This isn’t to say that I’m sold on Teahan’s numbers. Are they inflated from 2006? Can we please get some of that 2006 mojo back?

by stuckinstl12 on May 23, 2008 3:13 PM EDT up 0 recs

OPS+ is not adjusted for position

It is normalized for park and league.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on May 23, 2008 3:19 PM EDT up 0 recs

damn

by stuckinstl12 on May 23, 2008 3:24 PM EDT up 0 recs

Not really

Centerfielders get a better look due to the angle, but with the substantially greater space to cover, they have less time to make the read and make adjustments. Guys with Gathright-like speed can somewhat make up for lack of instincts and poor reads by covering more ground. Teahen does not have those instincts or the Gathright-like speed.

by Gopherballs on May 23, 2008 3:47 PM EDT up 0 recs

I think with the easier reads he'd have to make in CF

...he’d have at least average CF range. He’s got good speed and shows good corner OF range right now after only playing the OF for 1 1/4 seasons.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on May 23, 2008 3:51 PM EDT up 0 recs

Is that what the numbers say?

I though he did below average in range according to the metrics.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on May 23, 2008 4:03 PM EDT up 0 recs

Last season's metrics showed him having very good OF range

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on May 23, 2008 4:10 PM EDT up 0 recs

"Very good" may be a bit strong

UZR had him +5 runs, but he was closer to average (0) than the top RFs like Victorino (+20), Ordonez (+14), and Kearns (+13).

RZR had him below average (around -5 runs) when factoring in his relatively low number of out of zone outs (OOZ).

by Gopherballs on May 23, 2008 4:29 PM EDT up 0 recs

And, IIRC, Dewan's +/- liked him

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on May 23, 2008 4:35 PM EDT up 0 recs

I don't think Dewan rated him last year

by Gopherballs on May 23, 2008 4:43 PM EDT up 0 recs

Good corner OF range = below average CF range

Teahen is a 5 runs or so above average in the corners because the corners include immobile guys like Cuddyer, Hawpe, Griffey, and (last year) Guillen. The worst centerfielders (Matthews Jr., Hall, Melky Cabrerra, Wells, Roberts) rate as above average corner outfielders.

by Gopherballs on May 23, 2008 4:21 PM EDT up 0 recs

I understand that

I also think we need to take into consideration that Teahen has only been playing the OF for 1 1/4 years. His reads limit his range. His reads improved throughout 2007. I think they will continue to improve to the point where he is at least an acceptable defensive CFer.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on May 23, 2008 4:25 PM EDT up 0 recs

He would improve some but he is starting far enough behind that it would not matter

by Gopherballs on May 23, 2008 4:42 PM EDT up 0 recs

That's one way to interpret it

I don’t think he’s as far behind as you think he is. I also don’t think the difference between RF and CF is as big as you think it is. And neither of us knows how much he will improve.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on May 23, 2008 4:44 PM EDT up 0 recs

If the transition from a corner to CF was easy

you would see teams moving every LF or RF with decent range to CF to take advantage of the offensive disparity between the positions. In practice, it works the other way. Leftward movement on the defensive spectrum is pretty rare.

by Gopherballs on May 23, 2008 4:54 PM EDT up 0 recs

I don't think it is easy

But I think Teahen has the skills and athleticism to pull it off

If the transition from a corner to CF was easy you would see teams moving every LF or RF with decent range to CF to take advantage of the offensive disparity between the positions

I think this overstates it. I think most people in baseball overvalue defense up the middle. I think teams are hesitant to mover corner guys to CF because they overvalue CF defense which prevents them from taking advantage of the offensive disparity between the positions.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on May 23, 2008 5:01 PM EDT up 0 recs

I think teams do not move corner guys to CF

because the corner guys all started as CF or SS as teenagers, and player development departments moved them to corners when it became apparent they lacked the skills to play there at the major league level.

by Gopherballs on May 23, 2008 5:23 PM EDT up 0 recs

Baseball traditionalism and othodoxy

...says that you have to have a good defensive CFer. That’s the kind of thinking that leads player development departments to move acceptable CFers to corner positions and prevents guys like Teahen from moving to CF. Quite often traditional baseball orthodoxy is wrong.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on May 23, 2008 5:57 PM EDT up 0 recs

Based on the data we see at the MLB level,

teams should be more aggressive in moving players off CF, not the other way around.

by Gopherballs on May 23, 2008 6:31 PM EDT up 0 recs

If you value defense more highly than offense

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on May 23, 2008 6:34 PM EDT up 0 recs

No, if you are valuing defense and offense appropriately

A position player has more impact with his bat than his glove, but data for both offense and defense can be converted into runs so you are comparing apples to apples. A run saved is worth the same as a run scored.

For example, both Teahen and DeJesus have been around +80 runs with their bats. Using last year’s UZR, DeJesus adds a net +13 runs with his glove in CF, while Teahen adds +5 in RF. DeJesus is the more valuable player overall by +8 runs, almost 1 win better. If you move Teahen to CF and even if you assume that his defense would be average (0) (again, which I doubt), DeJesus’s value increases to +13 runs over Teahen, well above 1 win. If Teahen is -5 runs in CF, the difference is nearly 2 wins.

by Gopherballs on May 23, 2008 7:06 PM EDT up 0 recs