21-27

by royalsreview on May 24, 2008 1:30 AM EDT

With apologies to Hillman's we're planning on a 180 game season routine, the Royals have played 29.6% of the 2008 season and are now on pace to win 70 games.

Hillman, all early season basepath stupidity aside, has proven himself to be just another guy. Just another fifty-something strangely dressed in a player's uniform managing like the rest of his peers. Rany wrote a few weeks ago that one of the major disappointments regarding Trey was this very bland conformity. The Royals went all the way to Japan to hire the next Phil Garner, Tom Trebelhorn, Buddy Bell or Sam Perlozzo. And that's ok, I suppose, because apparently it's unavoidable, here in the sport without ideas.

Still, it would be nice if we could see some other tactical or managerial move beyond finding creative ways to get Joey Gathright and Tony Pena Jr. as many plate appearances as possible.

	AVG	OBP	SLG
2008 - Joey Gathright	.259	.311	.295

	AVG	OBP	SLG
2008 - Tony Pena	.162	.185	.208

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did it ever occur that maybe gathright was in there for his defense and the speed he brings..

He was on base 4 times outta 4 in that 3rd game of the boston series.. he looks like he is more relaxed at the plate.. so essentially this is the question…

Would you rather have Ross Gload playing first base or Gathright playing the outfield? because teahen moves to first which makes our outfield much better defensively that is of course when we dont run into eachother..

i go with Gathright over Gload.

Yasuhiko Yabuta is to Major League Baseball as Drew Carey is to The Price is Right

by focs on May 24, 2008 2:45 AM EDT 0 recs

Gathright isn’t on base enough for his speed to be relevant. As for his defense, I don’t know how much of an asset it actually is, nor do I think that the Royals are in a position to punt two lineup slots entirely. The rest of the lineup isn’t good enough to pull that off.

by royalsreview on May 24, 2008 3:36 AM EDT up 0 recs

Agree.

Gaithright sure is fast but he’s 12th on the team in OBP (behind Buck and Olivo). We already throw Pena out there every night for his defense, so Teahen-DeJesus-Guillen is good enough. Who cares about defense anyway when we score 1 run a night (besides Hillman)?

by hippdoghipp on May 24, 2008 10:29 AM EDT up 0 recs

His

options are limited. Gathright is a better option than Costa or Maier and those are the only two others he could use. The problem with the lineup is you have a #8 hitter who can’t bunt hits .160 in front of him so that doesn’t allow Gathright to use his skillset (bunting and speed). Too many times he comes up with 2 outs no one on. Instead of leading off an inning or a guy on first with one out or no one on.

sign Greinke a Evan Longoria type deal now.

by kcscoliny on May 24, 2008 11:22 AM EDT 0 recs

You can make all the excuses you want,

but Gathright’s .311 OBP and .295 SLG tell a very simple story. Hillman should not be going out of his way to get Gathright into the line-up. Not that the Guillen-DDJ-Teahen outfield sets the world on fire, but it’s markedly better than with Gathright.

Also, we’ve been over this in the past, but for focs or anyone else who might’ve missed this…Gathright consistently scores only around average for most defensive metrics. He does not give the Royals an edge on that score when he’s in.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on May 24, 2008 11:32 AM EDT 0 recs

He and DDJ

defensive metrics are based on past results. Thats like comparing his baserunning to the past. Both have improved this season with the help of the coaching staff. Our roster is setup with a free spot in which most games we have to play with either 4 OF’s or 2 C’s in the lineup. Gator isn’t a bad option in CF. David appears to have lost a step in my opinion. I don’t think Gator is our reason for our current losing streak. He shouldn’t be the one the fans are clammering to get rid of.

sign Greinke a Evan Longoria type deal now.

by kcscoliny on May 24, 2008 11:44 AM EDT up 0 recs

I know you aren't here to talk about the past

But what else are we supposed to go on? You know what else is based on past results? Induction. But maybe that’s a crazy idea. The metrics from this year also show Gathright to be inferior on defense as well, but, again, that’s all in the past…

Sure the sun has come up every morning before now, but that’s only for all the days before tomorrow, we don’t have any evidence about tomorrow...

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on May 24, 2008 6:35 PM EDT up 0 recs

Do you

even watch the games? Gathright is continously making plays DeJesus can’t. DeJesus is a average to below average centerfielder. Defensive Metrics are the most unreliable stat in baseball even Bill James states that. Watch the games and tell me who you want in center more DeJesus or Gathright.

Here are your stats Zone Rating by ESPN:

Joey Gathright, KC 35 28 263.0 62 62 0 0 0 1.000 2.12 .908

David DeJesus, KC 20 20 156.0 45 43 2 0 1 1.000 2.60 .872

Here are how innaccurate these stats are they have DeJesus rated above Hunter. You tell me who is better in CF? These metrics and all metrics are too subjective. You can rate Hunter as a worst CF because he makes more errors. Fielding stats are based largely on scorekeepers and we all know that they are out of there minds.

sign Greinke a Evan Longoria type deal now.

by kcscoliny on May 24, 2008 6:50 PM EDT up 0 recs

I can't

believe how everyone howles about Gathright. He is a problem I’m not denying that but he is about our 3rd or 4th problem.

sign Greinke a Evan Longoria type deal now.

by kcscoliny on May 24, 2008 6:50 PM EDT up 0 recs

Even if you're right (which I'm not conceding) about metrics

are the people making those evaluations and stuff any more subjective than you “watching the games?”

One doesn’t have to hold that metrics are perfect or unproblematic to give them some weight over “watching a guy play every day” which was/is the response every time it was pointed out how crappy Derek Jeter’s defense is.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on May 24, 2008 7:10 PM EDT up 0 recs

You may be right but both statistical and me watching says Gathright is better in CF than DeJesus. The DeJesus and Jeter arguments are similar to me. For both of those guys I don’t think there defense is that bad when they get to the ball I just don’t think they get to all the balls they should.

I say screw it. Lets call up Joe Dickerson from High-A Wilmington and Aviles to play SS. Trade off DeJesus, Pena and Teahan for whoever we can get in return, maybe a couple cases of beer.

sign Greinke a Evan Longoria type deal now.

by kcscoliny on May 24, 2008 7:31 PM EDT up 0 recs

Dayton and Hillman said they would go with Pena until the end of May. I hope they hold up there end of the bargain and when May ends the Pena time ends.

sign Greinke a Evan Longoria type deal now.

by kcscoliny on May 24, 2008 7:32 PM EDT up 0 recs

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on Gator

No matter what you think of him, good or bad, he would be missed, that’s for sure. There’s something prestigious about having “the fast guy who can jump over cars” on the team.

Anyway, we night be arguing at cross-purposes anyway. My own thoughts aren’t that he’s worthless, but that he’s just a good reserve at best, and shouldn’t be part of the teams plans as far as regular playing time goes. So maybe we aren’t that far apart in practical terms.

Not sure what the second paragraph was about, but I’m assuming you’re expressing frustration while being funny, and it definitelly made me chuckle.

BTW, does anyone know where there are free recent “scouting reports” on-line? I was trying to just see what “experts” thought of Gathright’s defense, and couldn’t find any. Not that it would be definitive either way (given that the “on-ilne expert” could be Joe Sheehan-esque…. or a Buzz Bissinger pseudonym), but it would be nice to have access to stuff like that. I checked Sickels’ website, but nothing was in his own postings about Gator’s D. It was all “He’s really fast, but I’m not sure he can hit” stuff from a few years back.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on May 24, 2008 7:37 PM EDT up 0 recs

Subjectively, I'd Say

I’ve seen an improvement in Gathright’s defense, including his arm, in the last month or so. If this truly is a sudden quantum leap, the proverbial light switch being thrown, that would be historical. That usually happens once we’ve given up on a player and he’s on some other team.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on May 24, 2008 8:33 PM EDT up 0 recs

Oh,

and I have to nail you on this, Will.

Sam Perlozzo? Really? No one’s as bad as Sam Perlozzo.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on May 24, 2008 11:41 AM EDT 0 recs

Tony Pena

is the HUGEST PROBLEM. His defense just doesn’t justify his spot not only in the starting lineup it doesn’t justify it on the 40 man roster. His production belies the problem within our organization. .160 !!! Do we really not have a SS in the organization that could do better? I’ll take 30-40 Aviles errors over this pathetic show of hitting. Pena’s on pace to make 21 errors anyway.

sign Greinke a Evan Longoria type deal now.

by kcscoliny on May 24, 2008 12:03 PM EDT 0 recs

Agreed

Well, I’m not sure that “30-40 Aviles errors” agree, but I do agree that TPJ is the biggest problem.

In addition, as I’ve said elsewhere, Pena’s presence also distracts people from how bad Gathright is as a hitter.

In addition, it’s curious to stand for Gathright by citing his defense, especially when the people who do so (rightly) say that TPJ’s defense isn’t good enough to justify his playing time.

But, anyway, that’s what fan posts are all about, isn’t it? Arguing about world-historical stuff like this?

(I love you guys)

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on May 24, 2008 6:38 PM EDT up 0 recs

ya’ll are crazy, gathright is a guy who will find a way to get on (base) he’s scrappy——good ball player!!!! pena needs some time in AAA we need offense at this point

by jrinekcmo on May 25, 2008 3:28 PM EDT 0 recs