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Game 51 Open Thread - Royals (21-29) at Blue Jays (27-25)

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Kansas City Royals @ Toronto Blue Jays


This team may never win again.

The Royals turn to Brett Tomko (5.76 ERA) while the Jays counter with Shaun Marcum (2.80 ERA).

These early starts are destroying me.

Lineup

Kansas City Royals @ Toronto Blue Jays

05/26/08 12:37 PM EDT

Kansas City Royals Toronto Blue Jays
David DeJesus - LF Shannon Stewart - LF
Mark Grudzielanek - 2B Joe Inglett - 2B
Alex Gordon - 3B Alex Rios - CF
Jose Guillen - DH Scott Rolen - 3B
Billy Butler - 1B Matt Stairs - DH
Mark Teahen - RF Lyle Overbay - 1B
Miguel Olivo - C Marco Scutaro - SS
Tony Pena - SS Brad Wilkerson - RF
Joey Gathright - CF Gregg Zaun - C


 

0 recs | Comment 294 comments

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Why o Why

do they continue to play Tony Pena

sign Greinke a Evan Longoria type deal now.

by kcscoliny on May 26, 2008 12:03 PM EDT   0 recs

Angel Berroa

just needs a little more seasoning at Omaha, and they don’t want to ruin him by bringing him up too soon.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on May 26, 2008 12:09 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

The funny thing is

I can totally see Tomko pitching a great game today.

But wasted, because our offense if so anemic.

Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!

by cmkeller on May 26, 2008 12:12 PM EDT   0 recs

Tomorrows lineup if i was coach

DeJesus LF
Grudz 2b
Gordon SS
Guillen RF
Olivo DH
Butler 1b
Buck C
Teahan 3B
Gathright CF

sign Greinke a Evan Longoria type deal now.

by kcscoliny on May 26, 2008 12:45 PM EDT   0 recs

I predict Tomko will give up one run in 8 innings

and lose.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on May 26, 2008 12:58 PM EDT   0 recs

So much for that prediction.

Although I’ll still be half-right.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on May 26, 2008 1:07 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Today is "National Sorry Day" in Australia.

I wonder how Huber’s observing that.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on May 26, 2008 1:03 PM EDT   0 recs

They really should mix things up

with the lineup, it’s not fair to the rest of the team to let this ineptitude go on. Teahen is dreadful, as is Pena. If you want to look at the primary culprit for the team’s offensive struggles, it comes down to Teahen. We expected a lot more than this from him, and now there’s another hole to fill.

I would bring up Aviles, send down Pena, bring up Maier, send Teahen down. Fire Barnett. I realize that this team wasn’t expected to contend, but at least you’ve got to try to win as many games as possible.

One man with courage makes a majority - Andrew Jackson

by Home Run Tony Cogan on May 26, 2008 1:10 PM EDT   0 recs

Nonsense.

Of the 11 guys on this team with the most plate appearances, five of them have a worse OPS than Teahen. 405 at-bats have been consumed by guys whose OPS is under .600, and Teahen’s not one of them.

No, he’s not hitting right now, but he is getting on base more frequently than anyone except Grudzielanek and Gordon, and I’m tired of having to explain this to people.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on May 26, 2008 1:16 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm tired of people defending Teahen

Ok, so he’s the sixth-best hitter on the worst offensive team in baseball.

His ability to get on base at a not-exactly-Barry-Bonds-rate of .337 would be fine if he was playing SS, 2B, 3B, C, or maybe CF, but you can’t have an everyday RF sugging .337 with 2 HRs. Even if you’re the Royals. Teahen was a valuable hitter for about 6 weeks out of 3 1/2 seasons,

I agree that Costa/Maier/Lubanski probably won’t be much of an upgrade, but they won’t be much worse. Teahen can get on base at a decent clip, but he adds nothing else to the team. And he’s a pretty terrible defender.

by hippdoghipp on May 26, 2008 1:36 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

That may be true

but we don’t need Teahen to take walks and get singles. We need someone who can give us some power and the ability to drive in runs. The guy is hitting .245 and has 12 RBI, on pace for less than 40. That just isn’t acceptable. You put him on the Red Sox, sure he’s valuable, but for a team that already has too many weak bats, he’s killing us.

One man with courage makes a majority - Andrew Jackson

by Home Run Tony Cogan on May 26, 2008 2:28 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

My problem is not "bashing Teahen" so much

It’s threefold.

1) If Teahen were batting second, it’d be far less of a problem. Instead, he’s batting behind the only other guys who can get their asses on base, and in front of all the guys who can’t… so as a result he’s pressing.

2) His BAVG and XBH numbers are just a slump. No, he is not going to hit 20 HR. But last year, he did have 31 doubles. It’s reasonable to assume 2006 was a fluke. It’s not reasonable to assume he’s just going to keep getting worse and worse.

3) There are far more glaring problems than Teahen which need to be fixed, and will result in more obvious benefits than replacing Teahen with, say, Costa. “Fixing” the Teahen “problem” means nothing if Pena and Gathright continue to foul the bottom of the order.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on May 26, 2008 2:44 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Okay but...

you do know that bringing up Maier over Teahen accomplishes less than nothing, since Maier would be lucky to field a .300 OBP in the show? And that Aviles still can’t play short well?

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on May 26, 2008 1:17 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm so tired of

the Aviles can’t play short. Tony Pena is garbage. He is an average fielder at best. Even his stats dispute that 3rd from bottom of qualifying SS at FPCT and 5th from the bottom at Range Factor. Plus we could DH Bannister for him and it would be a definite upgrade.

sign Greinke a Evan Longoria type deal now.

by kcscoliny on May 26, 2008 1:25 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Whoa there!

I’m no TPJ fan myself, not at all. Just saying that I doubt Aviles is the answer. He’s basically a utility player who can’t play short, and there’s a reason players like that wallow in AAA.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on May 26, 2008 1:30 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Who

gives a shit. Pena isn’t even a AAA player. He wouldn’t hit .250 in AAA. He is worse than Berroa. They’ve never given Aviles and he can’t play any worse than Pena is playing right now. Pena isn’t the defensive wizard they think he is anyway

sign Greinke a Evan Longoria type deal now.

by kcscoliny on May 26, 2008 1:37 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Well,

I’m saying I don’t get the point of having Aviles up when we already have Callaspo to cover short in the short term. That’s why I “give a shit.”

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on May 26, 2008 1:41 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Nah,

the early starts are keeping the posting numbers down. People always seem to be more to gather ‘round the fire for a night game.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on May 26, 2008 1:25 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

on a saturday and sunday morning

these noon starts are ilke 9 AM to me

by royalsreview on May 26, 2008 1:29 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Course,

it is Monday, but its memorial day. GOD. Can’t we get a day off?

Maybe we should set up a “catch the day game after a night game” system where I do the early game threads to keep you healthy all year long. We have to maximize our value, right?

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on May 26, 2008 1:32 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I think you're probably more handsome than him,

but yes, kind of like that. :P

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on May 26, 2008 1:36 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

You Have Lost

A step.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on May 26, 2008 1:43 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Even the best

people who don the tools of ignorance need a break for day games sometimes, phillip.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on May 26, 2008 1:45 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

How's that possible?

He came in at 5.76

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on May 26, 2008 1:23 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Shouldn't be.

Did they charge him with the two runs that scored after Pena couldn’t catch the freakin’ ball?

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on May 26, 2008 1:25 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

That's it.

Take Pena out and shoot him in the fucking head.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on May 26, 2008 1:23 PM EDT   0 recs

He's overstayed his welcome

at this point, I think. Might as well see how well Callaspo can struggle at short.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on May 26, 2008 1:28 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Another fuckin Pena

error not called a error.

sign Greinke a Evan Longoria type deal now.

by kcscoliny on May 26, 2008 1:27 PM EDT   0 recs

If they don't

call up Aviles when they get back to KC I’m gonna be HIGHLY disappointed.

sign Greinke a Evan Longoria type deal now.

by kcscoliny on May 26, 2008 1:28 PM EDT   0 recs

I'm not against it.

But I’d rather see Callaspo play SS. I think he will really hit if given a chance to play every day.

by cookierojas73 on May 26, 2008 1:31 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Hillman's Response In

Yahoo Sports:

“There is no quarrel with the defense of shortstop Tony Pena Jr., but his puny offense brings up plenty of criticism.

With the Royals last in the American League in runs scored, they can ill afford to have an automatic out in the lineup despite Pena’s web-gem defense.

"Do you have to continue to look at it? Yeah," Royals manager Trey Hillman said. "I think we always have to continue to evaluate it. For me right now, his defense outweighs his offense. There’s no doubt we would like to have another slot in there contributing.

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"I’m going to stick with Tony for a little while. I look at his recent history, meaning last year, knowing he got off to a slow start, knowing he’s one of those guys who has not accumulated a ton of major league at-bats. We would like that to be a productive slot, as you would any other slot."

Pena Jr. hit .204 in April, 2007, but rebounded to hit .330 in May and finished with a respectable .267 average. Pena has not crossed the .200 threshold this year.

"I’ve toyed with the idea—I won’t deny it—of putting (Alberto) Callaspo there for a week and seeing what happens," Hillman said.

Pena does save the Royals’ runs with his glove, which so far has kept him in the lineup.

"He does so many things," Hillman said. "It’s almost every other game he makes a tremendous play defensively that if you replay the inning it might have saved us a run. I’m not smart enough to tell you how many runs Tony has saved. Nobody is. You can replay the inning and guess.

"I’ve seen a lot of the American League shortstops live now with the teams we’ve played and there is nobody that ranges with him."

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on May 26, 2008 1:36 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Of course,

Trey Hillman’s observational range estimation, oddly enough, doesn’t mean everything…

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on May 26, 2008 1:37 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

take that Stairs

by royalsreview on May 26, 2008 1:30 PM EDT   0 recs

live the dream

maybe one day Gordon’s OPS will be over .800

by royalsreview on May 26, 2008 1:32 PM EDT   0 recs

But first

He’s got to do more against lefties.

by cookierojas73 on May 26, 2008 1:32 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

He WAS

over during the Sox series. It was very cool to see him playing that well in Boston, even if the rest of team went all street pizza.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on May 26, 2008 1:33 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Yep

But still he is hitting .196/.286/.232 vs. lefties…it’ll come, though.

by cookierojas73 on May 26, 2008 1:36 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I know,

I just looked at the splits, and I really didn’t realize it was that bad.

and .320/.396/.516 against the normals. Good catch by you to point that out. And yes, I think he’ll make progress in that regard.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on May 26, 2008 1:38 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

DAMN !!!!

sign Greinke a Evan Longoria type deal now.

by kcscoliny on May 26, 2008 1:40 PM EDT   0 recs

Tith TPJ On

Deck, Olivo had to try to hit it if he could reach it.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on May 26, 2008 1:41 PM EDT   0 recs

Good point

Another reason not to play Pena…he makes others press!

by cookierojas73 on May 26, 2008 1:44 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Then,

there’s the fact that the reason Olivo is a reserve catcher us that he swings at:

1. Strikes
2. Balls
3. Intentional Walks
4. Wild Pitches
5. When the pitcher throws the ball in to ask for a new ball
6. Cutoff throws from the outfield
7. Low hanging clouds
8. Seagulls
9. Paper airplanes
and MUCH, MUCH MORE!

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on May 26, 2008 1:44 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

*is that, not "us that"

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on May 26, 2008 1:44 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

So, you're saying he's Vlad.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on May 26, 2008 1:45 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Vlad without

any redeeming qualities against RHPs.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on May 26, 2008 1:46 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Nonsense.

She’s just slid into girl-next-door hotness.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on May 26, 2008 1:48 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I'll defend my future wife

even more vehemently than I defend Teahen!

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on May 26, 2008 1:50 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Not The Same,

Is it.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on May 26, 2008 1:54 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Wait, she "slid" into

Elisha Cuthbert territory? :P

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on May 26, 2008 1:54 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

At least that bumps

Scarlett Jo up the list further. You should be pleased. I’m pleased.

Anyway, if pitchers can make successful TJ recoveries every year, Alba can be hot again.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on May 26, 2008 1:50 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

It's not a problem

That was easy

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on May 26, 2008 1:57 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Oh

Will… she’s pregnant.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on May 26, 2008 2:00 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

hahaha

I wanna know what love is, I want you to show me

by LeoBloom on May 26, 2008 2:35 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Gathright:

3 XBH in 130 PAs. I’m rather sick of him in our line-up.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on May 26, 2008 1:48 PM EDT   0 recs

I'm telling you:

LF Guillen
CF DDJ
RF Teahen

is the best outfield on the team and that when I said “DDJ might need a sub once or twice a week,” I didn’t mean “work endlessly to get Gator in there every fucking game.”

Could Costa outhit Gathright? Probably. But Joe is soooooooo speedy.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on May 26, 2008 1:52 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

+1

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on May 26, 2008 1:54 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Guillen glaring at TPJ

as he ran back to the dugout.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on May 26, 2008 1:49 PM EDT   0 recs

the sad thing is

I really can’t trust Dayton Moore anymore. And that’s sad.

by royalsreview on May 26, 2008 1:50 PM EDT   0 recs

I don't understand this, Will

Name the three most potent weapons in the lineup, and tell me what the two not named “Gordon” have in common?

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on May 26, 2008 1:51 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah, but really

what shortstops could he get? I mean, I suppose we coulda ponied up $30 mil a year for A-Rod…

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on May 26, 2008 1:54 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs