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It's Time to Acknowledge Reality

Royalsreview_tiny by royalsreview on in News

“I’m going to stick with Tony for a little while. I look at his recent history, meaning last year, knowing he got off to a slow start, knowing he’s one of those guys who has not accumulated a ton of major league at-bats. We would like that to be a productive slot, as you would any other slot.” - Trey Hillman on Yahoo! Sports

Dayton, Trey, you're doing a heckuva job evaluating talent and putting together a roster/lineup.

Tony Pena Jr. is not hitting. Even if we pretend that he's the best defensive shortstop in the league, there is a certain level of competence at the plate that simply isn't being displayed. This is compounded by the dirty little secret that Pena's play at shortstop is uneven and not beyond criticism either.

Think of it this way, and I'll use batting average since, well, we all know how important OBP is around these parts. If Pena improved his batting average one hundred points, he still wouldn't be hitting enough to justify regular playing time. We hear all the time about how a great bullpen shortens the game, which may be true. What then of the free inning the Royals hand right back each and every game?

As jonfmorse mentioned in the game thread today, Pena has done absolutely nothing to earn this blind faith and patience. I'm not a huge fan of Ross Gload the player, but there's a solid body of evidence that he'll hit at a certain level and that he's probably not going to be sporting an OPS under .600 at the end of the year. Compared to Pena, Gload is Jim Thome. But to date, after Dayton Moore acquired him with almost no experience in the upper levels of professional baseball, Pena has been given over 700 plate appearances. Why? Even if you accept that last season was a lost cause and he was a stopgap, how do you explain 2008? The Royals left Surprise with barely a backup second baseman that they trust, much less a shortstop. The Royals have had plenty of time to address this situation, and it's frankly damning that it has been allowed to reach this point.

The Royals are now last in baseball in runs scored. They've been outscored by the Orioles, Padres and Giants. The Nationals have outscored the Royals by eighteen runs already. They are fifty runs from being a middle of the pack AL team, much less a good one. Sadly, the AL Central suddenly looks much tamer than we originally thought -- it might only take 88 wins to claim the division -- and the Royals are wasting a legitimate shot at contention thanks to a lineup that simply isn't good at anything. Anything.

Predictably, Hillman believes that Pena is saving something absurd, like "a run a game" with his defense. He isn't. Everyone understands that defense matters, especially at shortstop. But there has to be a limit, and at a certain point you're out-smarting yourself and hurting your ballclub, all while congratulating yourself on how old-school and gritty you are.

 

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Can anyone say Mike Avilies?!?

But seriously folks, I think it’s time to give Callaspo the majority of the SS at-bats and either DFA Pena or use him exclusively as a late game sub. He would make sense to carry on the roster in that capacity.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on May 26, 2008 3:52 PM EDT   0 recs

I've been screaming for Aviles

And being mocked for it on this board for the better part of two months. I’d also like to see a Maier for Teahen swap at this point.

by Dubya on May 27, 2008 10:15 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

No mocker I

but I confess to being sarcastic here. I see no point in bringing Aviles up unless the Royals get rid of German.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on May 27, 2008 1:10 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Agreed

Callaspo would be a huge upgrade just by being an average hitter. And how bad can he be defensively? Certainly not bad enough to not make this move.

by cookierojas73 on May 26, 2008 4:21 PM EDT   0 recs

I will repeat: Callaspo is a temporary solution

If/when we deal Grudz, Callaspo will and should become the everyday second baseman. If we were to shift Callaspo to short and deal Grudz, we’d go from having Gold Glove-caliber defense at both middle infield positions to pretty abysmal defense at both positions (assuming German takes Grudz’s place).

Make no mistake: moving Callaspo to SS means taking a major hit not only in SS defense, but in 2b defense as well. Not worth it.

by DarthYoshi on May 26, 2008 7:16 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

This has been...

apparent for some time. Pena was horrible last year. Probably in the top five of worst hitters in all of baseball. Everyone ignored this and commented how he exceed expectations by hitting an empty (and by empty I mean EMPTY) 260. He is twice as bad this year and his defense is so overrated it’s ridiculous.

Let’s not even talk about his bunting or baserunning or I may pass out.

by djk royal on May 26, 2008 4:33 PM EDT   0 recs

Hey go Royals

I liked the tease of being a game below .500 like a week ago. Then the perfectly time 8 game losing streak to cruh basically any and all hope we had of ever reaching .500 again.

I’m becoming increasingly impatient with Hillman and Moore. I know we need to give them time, but I’m just not seeing Hillman as the savior at manager.

Accidentally not thedude925 anymore. I do hate this new name.

by wildthang on May 26, 2008 4:37 PM EDT   0 recs

Bring back Berroa!!!!!

or…. just start Callaspo. Ahem.

The really sad part about Pena was that we could have picked him up on waivers, but instead we chose to trade for him. And a top 10 prospect at that, in Eric Cordier.

Now, I’m sure a lot of folks may say, hey, so what, Cordier was injured. Well, he suffered the exact same kind of injury that the player we spent $55 million on that offseason had just gotten over, so it’s not exactly like we didn’t have faith in the ability to rebound from that injury.

This space intentionally left blank.

by marbotty on May 26, 2008 4:42 PM EDT   0 recs

Reality is

The Padres and Giants also have a 9-hole problem. In fact, pretty much every team in the NL has a 9-hole problem. Many of these teams still score. The Royals have hit 25 home runs. Their team slg. avg. is .360. Their OBA is .314. Pena isn’t the only hole in the boat. In fact, he isn’t even the most serious hole.

by Hearditbefore on May 26, 2008 4:51 PM EDT   0 recs

?

Your lead-off hitter has a .327 OBA and your 5 and 6 guys are averaging .339 slg.

by Hearditbefore on May 26, 2008 5:03 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

He's not the only problem...

for sure. But he sucks the worst for sure.

by djk royal on May 26, 2008 5:14 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

RF and 1B/DH?

I know Pena sucks like a Dirt Devil. But I think he’s one of three problems, with Teahen’s bat and 1B/DH (wherever Billy isn’t) being the other. In the AL, yeah, there are a lot of really good offensive shortstops, but there are also a lot of really good outfielders and 1B/DH types, and we are running Teahen and Gload out there. All three of those positions need to be drastically upgraded. Once that happens, we pretty much have to hope Butler, Gordon and Guillen don’t flop.

by Eppenweb on May 26, 2008 5:03 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

as of right now

Teahen and Butler suck at about an equal pace

by playingwithfire on May 26, 2008 10:29 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

doesn't mean that Teahen is the only problem now

Both+Gathright+TBJ+God I hate John Buck+bullpen arm not named Soria, Ramirez or Nunez are all our problems.

by playingwithfire on May 26, 2008 10:35 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

That

is the most ridiculous thing I’ve heard on this site. HE IS THE HISPANIC HOLE is terrible bat sucks in everything around it.

sign Greinke a Evan Longoria type deal now.

by kcscoliny on May 26, 2008 5:02 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

No

but I do expect a .250 OBP and this myth of him being such a good defensive SS is disgusting. Teahan is a problem as is Gathright OBP and Grudz ability to drive in runs.

sign Greinke a Evan Longoria type deal now.

by kcscoliny on May 26, 2008 5:13 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

So the team isn't generating enough runs to win

But Pena is the biggest problem? Please elaborate.

by Hearditbefore on May 26, 2008 5:17 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

he sucks on defense and he's the worst MLB hitter by far...id say thats a big problem

he sucked for 7 years in the minors, he sucked last year, he sucks this year…he would not be in professional baseball if he had a different last name

TPJ...you're dead to me

by billybeingbilly on May 26, 2008 5:18 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

lets not get crazy....

we have other huge holes in the lineup, but tony pena junior is OPSing 397 good for an OPS+ of 8….he’s by far the biggest hole we have

TPJ...you're dead to me

by billybeingbilly on May 26, 2008 5:03 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Billy

is a development prospect and no one was bitching about him for the first 2 weeks of the season. I think he will come on the second half of the season he just has too much plate awareness not to.

sign Greinke a Evan Longoria type deal now.

by kcscoliny on May 26, 2008 5:15 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I think

they need to make some big changes. Aviles is probably good enough to be at least a everyday 2b. In that case could we trade Grudz/Teahan or DeJesus and either a minor league pitching prospect or Meche for Holliday.

sign Greinke a Evan Longoria type deal now.

by kcscoliny on May 26, 2008 5:05 PM EDT   0 recs

I 'm not saying changes shouldn't be made

Esp. SS. But you have to put this in perspective. Royals mgmt has been poking big holes in the boat for a long time. Stop-gap/expensive solutions are not the way to go. Fix the pitching first (70% there already). This isn’t roto ball. Wins are first, stats are 2nd.

by Hearditbefore on May 26, 2008 5:12 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I meant Grudz + DeJesus/Teahan + Meche/Minor league P (Rosa, Wood, etc)

sign Greinke a Evan Longoria type deal now.

by kcscoliny on May 26, 2008 5:06 PM EDT   0 recs

hollidays 809 road ops doesnt bother you?

he seems like a coors field production…good player, but not great outside of denver

TPJ...you're dead to me

by billybeingbilly on May 26, 2008 5:15 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Considering

we don’t have 1 current everyday player witha .809 OPS, NO !!!!!!!!.

sign Greinke a Evan Longoria type deal now.

by kcscoliny on May 26, 2008 5:32 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

you'd be giving up players worthy of a 950 ops player when in reality, you're likely...

to receive back a player with around an 800 ops which like i said…good, not great. id be more interested in Jason Bay…he’d be far cheaper money/prospectwise and has hit in a legitimate hitting environment

TPJ...you're dead to me

by billybeingbilly on May 26, 2008 5:37 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

What the heck makes you think

that the Rox would trade Holliday?

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on May 26, 2008 9:35 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

are you serious

What terrible start? The .321 average or the 8 hr. perhaps the .952 OPS?

by playingwithfire on May 26, 2008 10:32 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

and then he's going to get REALLY expensive...

they’re supposedly shopping him like the Rangers did with Tex last year…probably hoping for a similar return for 1 1/2 years of the player

TPJ...you're dead to me

by billybeingbilly on May 26, 2008 10:35 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

yep, but i DO think they'll trade him this year or this offseason...

and try to have Tulo lead this team into ‘real’ contention…like year after year…he’s signed up for quite a few years at a reasonable price and then they’ll try to get people that fill in around Tulo from the Holliday bounty.

TPJ...you're dead to me

by billybeingbilly on May 26, 2008 10:38 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

You bring up terrible starts

and then you bring up Tulowitzski, he is the definition of terrible start this season.

by I need more Esteban on May 27, 2008 12:58 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I’ve been calling for the release of TPJ on here for 10 months now. U either find a major league shortstop you can acquire through trade, or you find a prospect, start callaspo at short until you can give him 2nd, drop TPJ, bring up Aviles because for adding 100 points to your SS batting average and God knows getting more power on this team could be pretty big. If Aviles is brought up and hits (at the least) .250 with 8-10 homers and 45-55 rbis with an ops of 650 (mediocre numbers, my gawd,,) It’s better than TPJ’s from his “golden year” last year. I don’t give a s* if he saves a run a game. In our losses we lose by more 3.5 a game (and that stat was a week and a half ago) and God knows wins are few and far between lately…. There is no way you can say that if Aviles even had 25 (damn near terrible) errors during the rest of the season (Jeter averages 19 an entire year, Reyes averages 18, and ozzie smith had 5 years with more than 20, and Oz Guillen had 4) the Royals are in worse shape with a bat that even any scout can guarantee is better than TPJ’s. Aviles has earned a shot with this team to prove if he’s capable and we have a position that he can play that should definitely be up for grabs. Even if you don’t bring him up, Callaspo deserves the shot that he deserves as long as he practices 500 double-play balls a day before the game (could be the ugliest turn I’ve seen…).
Ozzie Smith could hit a bit. at least he was timely. Ozzie Guillen never sniffed .300 or had more than 4 homers in a year. Some naysayer tell me the defensive prowess that makes Pena the best option for a team that is last in the league in runs and by the way pena has 6 errors this year and is on his way to another post 20 E season…
Aviles or Callaspo will not make the royals a contender but being a GM is making the necessary steps to create a better ball club.

My next post will be about how Buck drains and has drained this club and how Olivo with Tupman as his backup would have given the royals (at least) 4 more (second place…) wins this year…

by Royal2103 on May 26, 2008 5:14 PM EDT   0 recs

I

disagree. Our Catchers I believe are actually bright spots this year. Buck has a 1 run better CERA than Olivo and they have both hit well in important spots. Buck hasn’t been good against stolen bases but his CERA doesn’t reflect that yet as opposed to Olivo. Buck calls a better game and KC should consider playing Olivo at 1b or DH more and leaving Teahan, DeJesus or Gathright on the bench most games.

sign Greinke a Evan Longoria type deal now.

by kcscoliny on May 26, 2008 5:29 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

CERA is a junk stat, man.

But Buck and Olivo have combined for decent production from the catcher’s spot.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on May 26, 2008 9:36 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

John is batting 50 points less with 4 homers less in more playing time. He has thrown out 0 baserunners (if I’m correct… no more than 1) and the starting pitchers era is only .75 lower though he has gotten Grienke and Bannister for EVERY one of their good starts (Can we say bloated! Olivo gets Tomko and half of Meche…). Olivo has had a poor pitching staff to deal with and a poor offense that doesn’t get people on base and has still performed. Buck had one good power year, has never had a good arm, and the best complement we can give him is he’s a pretty decent battery mate? Come on now…

by Royal2103 on May 26, 2008 5:22 PM EDT   0 recs

Cherrypicking?

You really think Olivo will be this good all year? Yes, he’s played better than Buck thus far. However, it’s fluky: Miguel Olivo has a track record of only really hitting vs. lefties and posting very low OBPs. Buck was the better hitter last year when they were both starters.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on May 26, 2008 9:37 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Two things:

1) Olivo is playing so far above his career line it’s not even funny; he’s going to come back down to earth. And as I have said on numerous occasions both here and elsewhere, he has never, ever, EVER, NOT EVEN ONCE posted an OBP over .300 for a full season.

2) Even with Olivo playing out of his mind, Buck still has a higher OBP while playing a bit below his career line. Now imagine when Olivo crashes back to terra firma.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on May 27, 2008 2:47 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

You

could replace Pena with Julio Lugo and we would win 4 more games. He is an absolute hole at the 9 spot.

sign Greinke a Evan Longoria type deal now.

by kcscoliny on May 26, 2008 5:30 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

All stats

don’t take in to consider a 20+ Error SS that hit’s .165 and CAN’T BUNT EITHER.

sign Greinke a Evan Longoria type deal now.

by kcscoliny on May 26, 2008 5:40 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

im THE head of the hating pena fan club....

but lets at least stick to realism…theres plenty of reality that can be used to talk about how bad pena is…but lets not just make up stuff like 4 games difference b/w pena and another horrible shortstop in lugo….theres plenty there….the 6 errors, the numerous other shoulda been errors, the terrible offensive numbers, terrible baserunning, complete inability to bunt, etc.

do you really think that upgrading from the worst shortstop to one of the worst that makes 9 million/yr would take this team from 70 wins to 82 wins over the course of the season?

TPJ...you're dead to me

by billybeingbilly on May 26, 2008 5:45 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm saying

if you keep Pena on this team you won’t win 70 games. This isn’t last years Tony Pena this is this years and pitchers have scouted him and know how to get him out. He isn’t gonna bust out of this slump. He’s not a hitter bring Aviles up or play Collaspo. Look at his stats R/27 is .59 compared to Lugo 4.14 and their Runs Created is 17.8 vs. 2.7. 15 runs probably would have gave us 3-4 wins already.

sign Greinke a Evan Longoria type deal now.

by kcscoliny on May 26, 2008 6:08 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

i highly doubt this but, whatever....

we’re on the same side as long as that side doesnt involve trading for julio lugo….pena needs to go

TPJ...you're dead to me

by billybeingbilly on May 26, 2008 6:10 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm all for Pena gone too

But you can’t truly believe that this team is fixed if Aviles or Callaspo are at short? There are a lot of problems with this team’s hitting, especially during this 8 game losing streak. Pena needs to go, but it’s not going to make a huge difference unless the rest of the lineup starts hitting! Ya know, the ones who get 4 ABs a game.

by I need more Esteban on May 26, 2008 7:59 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Hmm, seem to have struck a nerve here.

At least it was nice to generate some discussion

by Hearditbefore on May 26, 2008 5:32 PM EDT   0 recs

I believe GMDM

has done a good job of finding arms (Meche, Ramirez, Cortes, Mahay) and now he needs to address the offense. Holiday, Burrell, Ryan Howard, whoever he needs to get to address this complete lack of power pull the string draft Smoak or Alvarez and this team could compete in ‘09 r 10.

sign Greinke a Evan Longoria type deal now.

by kcscoliny on May 26, 2008 5:36 PM EDT   0 recs

Guillen, Olivo?

That’s 1/2 the home run total of the club. Looks like he’s already started.

by Hearditbefore on May 26, 2008 5:44 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

+1

When your backup catcher is tied for your team’s lead in home runs, it is hard to think of a bigger red flag.

(I know, I know, Olivo has DHed a lot too. But still, it had to be said).

by DarthYoshi on May 26, 2008 7:13 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

What I don't understand

Is where people stand with pitching versus hitting – which comes first. Let me know how you feel about it. I see a GM with limited resources (cash, prospects, players) who attacked the highest priority first. Do you take your limited resources and use it to secure bats first? Not on my planet. Has Pena been playing SS for 20 too many games? Sure. Why? I don’t know. Maybe the management is old style and will make the switch at the all-star break. It sure must be aggravating to be a Royal fan + watch Tony in the box.

by Hearditbefore on May 26, 2008 9:57 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

and with regards to pitching/hitting...

it doesnt matter which one you have…you’re gonna be bad if one of those two sucks…and shockingly enough, even though pitching is ‘the currency of baseball’ we still suck. however, we could have good hitting and the pitching staffs of old and wed still suck. Moore has to be able to do both…ive seen his ability with regards to pitchers…lots of swings and misses in the hitting department…

TPJ...you're dead to me

by billybeingbilly on May 26, 2008 10:03 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

for every one of those guys, ill give you gator, gload, shealy, etc....

he’s not proven himself to be an even good evaluator of offensive talent

TPJ...you're dead to me

by billybeingbilly on May 26, 2008 5:46 PM EDT   0 recs

I see your point

He probably should have been able to get Tulo instead of Shealy, Crawford instead of Gator and Javier Vasquez instead of Gload.

by Hearditbefore on May 26, 2008 5:49 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Strike Javier

and make that , hmm Crozinski.

by Hearditbefore on May 26, 2008 5:51 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

no...those guys had worn out there welcome here, but clearly had talent and affeldt turned it into performance...

but dayton seemed to think shealy was the long term solution at 1st base even though he is not good

TPJ...you're dead to me

by billybeingbilly on May 26, 2008 6:08 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm

not gonna start complaining about GMDM yet. He was given an Absolutely bare franchise to work with. He has done a great job with the pieces he had so far. My complaint is Pena and Hillman continuing to run him out there.

sign Greinke a Evan Longoria type deal now.

by kcscoliny on May 26, 2008 6:11 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

i dont know how this isnt a reflection on DM

he believes in this defense up the middle crap, he traded a viable prospect for pena who wouldve been dfa’d a week later, he hired a manager who decides that running pena out there 6 days a week was a good thing….his hands are not clean in this fiasco

TPJ...you're dead to me

by billybeingbilly on May 26, 2008 6:14 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

What the hell...

Do you expect DM do? It’s not like offensive minded SS’s are hanging from trees. DM has made a bunch of low risk moves to temp. fill needs on this team and he has certainly done that. If you think Cordier is some kind of stud prospect, you’re kidding yourself. Pena was a low risk move that has not turned out. To blame that on DM, is insane.

by adschofield on May 26, 2008 6:31 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

i cant blame him for having the worst player in the league as...

the starting shortstop on the team that he put together…two years in a row? he is the general manager…if he signs/trades for bad players…it is his fault

TPJ...you're dead to me

by billybeingbilly on May 26, 2008 6:33 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

He is not the worst player...

in the league…He’s pretty bad, but he’s not the worst. He traded for TPJ to fill a hole at SS. It hasn’t worked and all we gave up was a pitcher who looks like he’ll never make it to the MLB. You’re expectations are a bit to high. What would you have liked DM to do instead of trading for TPJ? Start Berroa? Because there were no other options.

by adschofield on May 26, 2008 6:38 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

he has had a year to find a replacement

there isn’t another all-glove no-hit guy that can at least hit .270?

by royalsreview on May 26, 2008 6:51 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Adam Everett has an arm?

You are right, though…if DM had just signed Adam Everett we would easily be in the race. His .189 average and .235 OBP would surely take this team to the top. Every other hitter would be inspired by his mashing ability.

Get serious, if we had signed him, you’d be complaining about that signing.

by I need more Esteban on May 26, 2008 8:05 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

no i wouldnt.

but if you’re going to go with a dead spot in