Time for a more positive post from me
And that means, it's time to look longingly to the minors for hope. (Royals fans would be absolute suckers for Obama and his message, don't ya think?)
I'm looking at 3 Omaha guys today:
Maier: 341/376/512 129 ABs 9 BBs 17 Ks. He's too old now to be considered a prospect, but he looks like he could easily be a contributing 4th OF - especially on a team like the Royals. Unfortunately, he bats left handed, just like 75% of the current OFs. His numbers are aided by a BABIP of 371, which is unsustainable. Another negative is the low walk rate - but the K rate is actually decent. He is a good defensive player, and could play all 3 positions, so in my mind, he makes including Gathright in a trade a viable option.
Aviles: 335/367/608 209 ABs 10 BB 23Ks. He's also too old now to be considered a prospect, but don't we owe it to ourselves to look at him as a potential utility man? On the negative side, that walk total is low, but the K rate is low as well, the BABIP is only a bit high at 348, and the power is off the charts for a middle infielder. Sure, it may be a career year, but shouldn't we find out how much would translate to the bigs? I know he lacks the range for SS, but supposedly would be OK as backup at both 2B and 3B. Why not let him play 3B against lefties, moving Gordon to 1B or on the occasional day off Gordon needs? The skinny is he has always been an "overachiever" type - you know, the kind of player that keeps stinging the Royals in every series we play.
Lubanski: 258/333/461 128 ABs 15 BBs 37 Ks. Despite being seemingly written off by the organization, this guy is still making (albeit slow) progress at every level. After a horrific start at Omaha, he has his numbers up to the point where we should take him serious again. (Remember his penchant for starting slow at every stop, and then improving - isn't that what you're looking for in a big leaguer?) On the positive side, the walk rate is not bad at all. Isolated Power looks acceptable as well. Negatives are the K rate, and the batting avg. His BABIP is probably sustainable at 325. If you ask me, if he can continue to improve on these stats, it makes trading either DDJ or Teahen viable. Unfortunately, he is yet another lefthanded bat (an apparent prerequisite for being an OF in the Royals minor league system)
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Calling any of these guys up from Omaha
...means taking someone off of the 25-man roster. Do we DFA Gathright, Gload or German? Do we option Butler? W can’t let the tail wag the dog. If we genuinely want to dump a player or send a player down, then sure call one of these guys up. But calling one of these fringe prospects up to give them a look shouldn’t be a priority at this point. None of them are worthy of forcing a player off of the 25-man roster based on their own questionable merits.
I probably disagree with you.
an extension of that
maier to me is gathright, and in almost every sense. i think fielding/base stealing/obp/slg all would be near identical numbers. so i think l2dad has it right that he gives us flexibility to move gathright if there is a taker out there
aviles is callaspo/german lite. he brings nothing to the team that callaspo and german don’t already do better. if you replace either with aviles, this team gets weaker.
lubanski is a big uncertainty. i don’t think he is ready; plus he is young enough to think he can still improve in the minors. we will see what we have in him come september.
Obviously,
the roster spots would open due to trades, if we can find any takers.
Lubanski would require a move to the 40 man, but I believe we have a spot open.
This team could actually use an injury or two to make taking a look at Maier or Aviles a viable option. Most years we have injuries in spades, but this seems to be one are where we have improved – health.
I don’t think Lubanski is ready yet either – just been encouraged by his recent strides. Considering his age, and the fact that he hasn’t had a real shot yet, I think calling him a fringe prospect is perhaps a bit harsh, isn’t it? Sure, he is not listed among the top 10 prospects on anybody’s lists, but he was a first round pick, and he was among the orgs top 10 prospects for more than a season or two, so I’m not ready to call him a fringe prospect just yet.
As long as we wait for good trade offers for guys like Grudz/German/Gload/Bale/Gobble, then I'm fine with it
I would rather wait for the best trade opportunity than rush a trade and get less value so we can call someone like Aviles up sooner (I’m not saying you are suggesting the latter, but some have suggested that).
I probably disagree with you.
by Scott McKinney on May 27, 2008 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
The season is shot – Moore might as well wait for the best offer he can. I think Grud, Gator, and Gload would all be players to move, and the roster could be easily manipulated from the minors (Aviles, Maier) and from the existing bench players (Callaspo, German) without any real drop.
The idea being, even if we only get marginal prospects for Gator and Gload, maybe we get lucky and we get a guy who develops unexpectedly. (I would insist that the fringe prospects that are still in Low A or lower – that increases the chance of a screw-up by the other team’s GM)
Meant to add
At the trading deadline, given the right injury situation, Grud should be able to bring us a viable shortstop prospect (or am I overvalueing him?)
Over the past couple of years, rentals of aging players who are merely pretty good usually don't bring that kind of return
Look how little it took for the Mets to get Castillo last year. Two really prospects at about the AA level.
I probably disagree with you.
by Scott McKinney on May 27, 2008 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey, Matt Wieters isn't even in AA yet, I bet we can get him!
[Yes, this is a joke. I know it’s obvious, but given some of the “prospect” related discussion elsewhere on this site at the moment, I thought I should tag it.]
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by Matt Klaassen on May 28, 2008 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Note: I apologize for using "we" with reference to the Royals
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by Matt Klaassen on May 28, 2008 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Lubanski
It depends what one means by “fringe prospect.” When I use that expression, I mean someone who isn’t a good prospect but also isn’t a complete non-prospect. But I do think he’s on the outer fringe of the guys we could list as genuine Royals prospects. His stock has fallen a lot, and I think rightly so. Part of it is performance, but a lot of it is what the scouts are saying. From what I’ve read at BP, BA and scouts.com, his tools don’t look good. His bat and foot speed were both down last year. He doesn’t project as a particularly good hitter or defender in the majors. Right now I think he’s a longshot to be a good 4th OFer.
I probably disagree with you.
by Scott McKinney on May 27, 2008 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
OK, now that you've defined fringe prospect,
I think we are more or less in agreement on Lubanski.
NY, one of the reasons to continuously give these type of prospects shots, is every once in a while, one will defy the scouts and bloom overnight in the big leagues. I don’t know if Lubanski is one of these types – who does, but I do know the Royals have nobody in the current OF good enough to justify not giving him a semi-serious look (like the did Costa) to find out. I don’t think he is ready for the call-up yet, but he might be by September, and also should be given serious consideration in Spring 09 if he continues to improve at AAA.
I guess
NY, one of the reasons to continuously give these type of prospects shots, is every once in a while, one will defy the scouts and bloom overnight in the big leagues.
Perhaps. But the problem with Lubanski is that scouts don’t like him and his performance is unimpressive. He was inconsistent with good half seasons and bad half seasons before AAA. Since he’s been in AAA, he hasn’t been good (in an extreme hitter’s league). Maybe he’ll turn it around (maybe he’s already turning it around) this season. But when the scouts don’t like you and you’re not performing well, there isn’t much reason for optimism.
If a roster spot opens up, I’d rather give it to Costa, Maier or Aviles than Lubanski.
but I do know the Royals have nobody in the current OF good enough to justify not giving him a semi-serious look (like the did Costa) to find out.
Really? Are you saying you’d bench any of the Royals OFers to give Lubanski a serious look? His lack of skills and poor performance do not warrant him playing over Guillen, Teahen or DeJesus. I wouldn’t mind if he took Gathright’s bench role for that kind of “look” but that’s about it.
I probably disagree with you.
by Scott McKinney on May 27, 2008 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Gathright, yes...
but remember, I said only if he continues to improve. I need to look up some stats for Lubanski – he really was horrific early on, and I think that may be skewing his numbers at this point. I read the minor league boxscores every day, and I’ve noticed quite a bit of improvement since the first few weeks, but I need to document that so my argument might make a bit more sense.
I think that I'd want Lubanski
to keep making progress at AAA before I’d give him a look at a September call-up.
You made a good point about Maier’s BABIP…that’s not something he can keep up and it won’t translate to the majors.
And as for Aviles…he’s Esteban German without any plate discipline, from what I can tell. Give him a shot at a utility role? Sure, but we need a spot to open up first.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
Aviles = German without the OBA skills
(or the speed) So wouldn’t that actually be a worse player? Why downgrade?
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
I wasn't advocating
going out of our way to give him an opportunity, retro. I was saying that he could make the bigs if we trade some middle infielders in july.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
Sorta different from German
Same negatives, as in limited defensive abilities, but that slugging percentage is a stark contrast to anybody currently on the Royals not named Olivo, Gordon, or Guillen.
I don’t know if it’s for real, but if he keeps it anywhere in the neighborhood of 600 like it is now for any length of time, the Royals need to find out what it means. It’s early, and his line is either the product of a small sample size, a career year, or a breakthrough. If you’re the GM of the worst offense in baseball, don’t you have to be tempted to find out which it is?
Aviles's SLG
There are a few reasons why Aviles’s SLG doesn’t mean much to me and I don’t think it is very telling about how he’d hit in the majors.
1. He’s doing this in the PCL (an extremely hitter friendly league)
2. He’s now in his third year in that league, older than the genuine prospects at his level. It’s common for older players repeating a league for multiple times to suddenly perform well (See Craig Brazell and Timo Perez)
3. He hasn’t hit for impressive power in any other minor league season.
I probably disagree with you.
by Scott McKinney on May 27, 2008 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Those are good points,
I guess what I’m saying is what if the improvement is real? Sure, the odds may only be, say 1-5% or so that this is the case, but my God, the Royals are so bad offensively right now, I’m willing to take that gamble! What’s to lose? He certainly wouldn’t be taking ABs away from anybody key to the future, right?
by loyal2sdad on May 27, 2008 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
My opinion will change somewhat if he performs well for the remainder of this season
His numbers aren’t that great now (.794, which is well below average for a corner OFer in the PCL) and as recently as May 21, I think he was below .750). I haven’t seen anything to be impressed by yet. He could still impress me, though.
I probably disagree with you.
by Scott McKinney on May 27, 2008 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
How the heck did you get that "green" effect
with the asterisk?
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
It's what happens
when someone recommends your comment.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on May 27, 2008 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I sure as hell wouldn't want him taking at bats away from superior players like Callaspo and German
And those are exactly the players he would be taking AB’s from.
I probably disagree with you.
by Scott McKinney on May 27, 2008 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I see all three
As MLB bench players if they’re lucky. I’m still a bit more optimistic about Lubanski I suppose simply because of his age, but he’ll probably never be anything more than a bench player either.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
maier's an upgrade over Gathright
supposedly the best CF in the organization, and he’s got decent enough #s in the minors. won’t be a star, but could easily match Gathright’s offensive contributions while being superior defensively. you might even argue he’d be a better base stealer.
i have no faith in aviles, but i think if Lubanski can get his OPS above .900 this season, he may have a decent chance of living up to his draft position. i’d put the odds of that happening at about 30% though
This space intentionally left blank.
Maier is an unknown in the majors
At this point, it is a guess to say that he’s an upgrade over Gathright. Personally, I’d say that Gathright is better defensively (Gathright looks A LOT better in the field this year, getting really good reads). There is no way that Maier matches Gathright’s range. And can Maier hit in the majors at all? Even at Gathright level? Hard to say.
I probably disagree with you.
by Scott McKinney on May 27, 2008 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Let's not forget
Joey Gathright dominated AAA as well:
Joey
2004 .326/.376/.373 Age 23
2005 .305/.388/.407 Age 24
2007 .341/.457/.422 Age 26
Mitch
2007 .279/.320/.428 Age 25
2008 .341/.376/.512 Age 26
Gathright > Maier
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on May 27, 2008 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
What this team needs is a good injury or two...
think about it, have any of the position players been on the DL during the regular season yet? Is this a time when good team health is NOT good?? I don’t like to wish pain on anyone, but you often see marginal players step it up during with extended action when there is really no pressure since they otherwise wouldn’t be there. It would allow a good look at other players without having to make a roster move.
“Hey Tony, you looked a little gimpish running down to first, are you SURE your hammy’s okay?”
“running to first?? what does that mean?”
“Sorry, I meant, that throw in the 3rd was a little off line, are you SURE your arm is okay?”
I have many leather bound books...
I wanted Huber to get 100 AB's last year just like I'd like Aviles to get 100 AB's this year, and for the same reason
And that reason is…so they could actually show how mediocre (or worse) they are and put out the fire of fan enthusiasm for these unimpressive players and thus end the issue. But, of course, Costa has had more than 400 MLB AB’s including extended stretches of regular PT and that doesn’t stop many fans for calling for this sub-mediocre player to get called up yet again. I wonder how poorly he’d have to hit in the majors and for how long before everyone would just end the love affair for this guy.
I probably disagree with you.
+1
I’ve said it elsewhere, I’ll say it again. The Costa talk has to end!
BTW, remember when Buddy put him in the four hole a few times last year? Wow that made me cringe.
by I need more Esteban on May 27, 2008 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
One of the Laws of baseball fandom
If some player has good numbers in AAA, many fans will call for him to be called up. His skills, age, league, park and prior performance be damned. CALL HIM UP!!!!!!
I probably disagree with you.
by Scott McKinney on May 27, 2008 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Maier > Gathright
I’d rather have Maier right now, honestly. At least he’d give a fighting chance at the plate (and has a little bit of legitimate upside)...and he plays nearly as good of defense.
Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.
Okay,
but even if we assumr he’s a better hitter than Gathright, that doesn’t make him worth caryying on the roster. His BABIP is absolutely unsustainable, and when that comes down he’ll be the same old pretty good AAA player that he really is.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
In other words
worse than Gathright.
But not that much worse.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by Matt Klaassen on May 28, 2008 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
In other words.
Total bubkis, just like the rest of the Omaha heroes we’re stuck debating about.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
Yup
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by Matt Klaassen on May 28, 2008 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Some splits on Lubanski
OK, I arbirtrarily looked at Lubanski’s low point as the cutoff for this:
Start of the season thru April 13th: 181/250/394, with 3 BBs and 14 Ks
April 14th – current: 290/364/484, with 12 BBs and 23 Ks
Analysis:
Obviously, both sample sizes are too small, and all stats count, regardless.
That being said, considering his strong tendency to do this at every single stop he has been at, this is sorta encouraging, no? Granted, it does look like the only real improvement was in plate discipline, but that’s a very important area. (The ISO is about the same in both timeframes)
All I’m saying is if he continues the latter line the rest of the way, or perhaps continues to improve it just a bit, I think he can contribute positively at the ML level.
I agree that his bat will have to constitute most of his value, as his foot speed and defense are average at best.
Go back to the core of my argument: this is a guy who gets to a new level, struggles for a while, and then apparently makes the necessary adjustments to improve. To me, that shows one critical ability to succeed in the big leauges, if his raw ability is sufficient. He will keep losing numbers as he is promoted – the key will be if he can continue to adjust to the new league.
Lubanski
is more interesting to me than either Aviles or Maier, even if he probably isn’t starter material. I’ll be keeping a close eye on him throughout.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
If he hits well this season, his stock will go up in my eyes
But he’s going to have to hit a lot more like the last couple of weeks, than the prior weeks. He’s had some good flashes and short hot streaks this season and they have always been followed by mini-cold streaks. I hope he improves and gets some more consistency at the plate.
I probably disagree with you.
by Scott McKinney on May 27, 2008 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll be eager to see
How he does in June-August. By then, any adjustment period should be over. He should be raking in AAA, or else its probably time to relegate him to organizational filler status.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Final Lubanski comment
He is the youngest player on the Royals Omaha roster – only Carlos Rosa is close, as the second youngest.
I am going to remain hopeful. At the very least, it gives us all something interesting to look up in the morning (minor league boxscores) – an alternative to reading another sad litany of stories about the big league club…
What I look up everyday
I go to MiLB.com to look up the box scores of every Royals affiliate. While there are some ok position players in the lower levels (and, of course, Moustakas), I love looking at the progressing stats of guys like Rosa, Cortes, Wood and Cegarra. On the pitching side, there’s lots to look forward to. Still a lot of work to be done on the hitting side.
I probably disagree with you.
by Scott McKinney on May 27, 2008 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Lubanski doesn't hit
for enough power to be a corner outfielder. He looks to be just another 4th or 5th outfielder. He doesn’t have the power that Aviles or Costa do and doesn’t have the speed that Gathright has. If he was worth a look wouldn’t someone have grabbed him in Rule 5 draft when they had a chance? Unfortunately for KC fans the roster is full of too many similar players.
Of – Maier/Gathright/Teahan/DeJesus/Costa/Lubanski – Feels like you could reach in to that mixing bowl and grab the same piece of crap. Average speed (Gathright being the exception) with little to no power. I doubt if Maier is the answer his speed and range aren’t that of Gathright’s. (0-1 SB)
If – Pena/Callaspo/German/Aviles/Berroa/Grudz – Little to no plate discipline, limited range, little to no ML seasoning (Grudz being the exception) and no pop at the plate (Aviles with no chance to show he has no power yet)
For the most part I blame Allard the Idiot and the scouting department under his regime. How you continue to make the same mistakes over and over again is mind boggling. The Twins get the same players over and over again yet they work. Allard continued to get the same players over and over again. Yet it continued to not work. The proof is in the minors as NY pointed out.
As for GMDM comments about the roster I am just perplexed. Would losing German really be that big of deal? The guy is 30 and a .203 hitter with 6 XB hits since Aug 1 of last year his defense tonight was disgusting. I didn’t know 30 yr old middle infielders who can’t play SS and are proving can’t really play 2b are that hot of a commodity. I would be more pleased to watch a 27 year old do the same in the admittance of seeing if we have a diamond in the rough. If Aviles doesn’t pan out so be it at least the questions and wondering would end. Some guys do develop late you know (Jack Cust, Cecil Fielder, Ryan Ludwick, Casey Blake, Phil Nevin, Jeff Conine) not often but has happened.
I do believe September trades are the answer. The other answer is shipping away someone young with some value. Maybe limiting Nunez (I will say it not the answer at closer) role so he doesn’t blow his value and send him away. Teahan, DeJesus and Grudz would definitely be on the block as well as Mahay or Gobble. The head of player personnel told a friend of mine just yesterday that Rosa should be ready to come up by the end of the year. With Cortes dominating in AA and by any stroke of luck (I SAID LUCK DON’T jump on me) maybe Wood and he could be ready by mid season next year. This group of pitchers could be a nice replacement for some that we have now.
Davies, Rosa, Cortes and Wood all have overpowering stuff it appears and could be used out of the bullpen if they don’t continue to develop as starters.
sign Greinke a Evan Longoria type deal now.
September trades?
Usually those don’t net you much because players acquired after Aug 31st cannot be added to playoff rosters.
And…no surprise here, but I have to disagree with your rather careless assessment of the outfield players. Costa has already failed at the major league level. Maier is a fifth outfielder wannabe with no standout skills. Gathright’s skill is his speed. Lubanski has given us no reason to call him up.
My real point is that Teahen and DDJ are much better than any of these guys. They’re not the “same piece of crap,” they’re players with actual major league skills…
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
Teahean and DDJ...
are proven below average to average players depending on the year. Maier and Lubanski are in their first full year of AAA and were both first round picks. They still have potential. Neither have proven enough to get called up but it’s still to early to give up on them. They’re not crap either.
DDJ
has been above average more often than not. Those years might be over now, but I have to point out that to defend my boy.
Maier is nothing that you won’t find in a hundred other journeymen outfielders. Him being a first round pick means nothing. His results have consistently shown him to be someone who’s always going to have to fight to stay in contention for the next injury call-up. He is “crap,” if “crap” equals “not even remotely a big league starter.” Lubanski, as I’ve said. is more interesting, but will still need to pick it up to have a big league career.
DDJ and Teahen are better than both these guys, and right now it’s not close.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
They are better now...
but both have pretty much topped out. Maier and Lubanski at least have potential to improve. Odds are neither will be better than DDJ or Teahen but you or I would be premature to say that with any certainty this early into their first full year of AAA season.
Disagree, then
I don’t see Maier as having any upside at all. He’s topping out right now by having a totally unsustainable BABIP in a hitter’s league. Lubanski is more interesting since he’s adjusted well to previous levels, but I wouldn’t better on him becoming a better player than DDJ. He might have a shot at passing Teahen…but that’s just idle speculation of his best case scenario. Average prospects turn into below average major leaguers, usually.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
well
Of – Maier/Gathright/Teahan/DeJesus/Costa/Lubanski – Feels like you could reach in to that mixing bowl and grab the same piece of crap. Average speed (Gathright being the exception) with little to no power. I doubt if Maier is the answer his speed and range aren’t that of Gathright’s. (0-1 SB)
Maier actually is quite fast with 86 career steals in the minors. plus, BA had him our best defensive outfielder in the minors for 2006 and 2007.
I guess I just don't get the DDJ hate
or dismissal from various people. I realize he isn’t an superhero, but he gets on base at a decent clip (amazing by Royals standards), plays good defense, and has a reasonable contract. He’s “proven himself” in the majors. Leaving aside the Teahen issue (even more contentious, I have no idea what to make of his future, and there is a whole different thread about him), All the other guys are either marginal prospects who might be 4th or 5th outfielders (Lubanski might be more, if the Royals are lucky), or guys exactly like that except everyone is enchanted by their speed (Gathright).
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by Matt Klaassen on May 28, 2008 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Who hates DDJ?
I like him and he is good for a Royal. His career line is 281/357/411 for an OPS of 768. It’s right around average. The last year and a half he’s been below average. Again, he’s okay which makes him good for a Royal.
"Proven below average to average"
That sounds like “DDJ hate” to me. In the very least it is entirely inaccurate. Either that or you don’t know what average is for a CFer.
I probably disagree with you.
by Scott McKinney on May 28, 2008 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Last year DJ was below average
In a down year. .758 OPS was average for a MLB CF in 2007, DJ was at .723. Usually though he is above average as he was in 2006, when the average CF was at .761, while he was at .810.
I’d say DJ is probably about average to slightly above average. He’s basically had one average year, two above average years, and one below average year.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on May 28, 2008 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
But too many think DDJ is irreplaceable and/or special
He’s not the sort of player one builds a championship team around. He’s not going to get better, and he may begin to decline soon. Trading him now for just about anything good the Royals can get makes perfect sense. Those who are anti-tradeDDJ are drinking too much blue kool-aid, and if any other GM’s have been drinking it, then GMDM needs to take advantage of that.
That’s not to say that Gathright would be every bit as good as DDJ, but that the Royals aren’t going to realize the full potential of both players at the same time anyway, so they may as well package DDJ in a trade for a stopgap SS who can actually hit. Then the combo of CF and SS would be an overall improvement over the past couple of years.
Maier and Lubanski and Costa should see some time this year in a competition to replace Ross Gload (and save a couple million off the payroll).
Please don't put words
in my comments. I don’t hate DDJ I just think his skills might be diminishing and with the majority of players on this 25 man roster I think if we could trade him based on his past numbers might not be a bad move.
sign Greinke a Evan Longoria type deal now.
"Maier/Gathright/Teahan/DeJesus/Costa/Lubanski"
I don’t want to pick on kcscoliny, but I vehemently disagree with putting DDJ in the same caregory with the other guys (once again, I must qualify the Teahen mystery)
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by Matt Klaassen on May 28, 2008 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
If they're not Aviles, they're no good
I probably disagree with you.
by Scott McKinney on May 28, 2008 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
DDJ is better than the rest
but I think over the last year to year and half he has proven his limited range in CF. His ZR and RF have went down every year from 06-08. Meaning he is more of a corner OF’r. I don’t think his arm or OPS/SLG numbers are that of a corner OF’r that we want. DDJ probably holds the best trade value of the group so he should be the most able to be traded and bring something back in return
sign Greinke a Evan Longoria type deal now.
ZR and RF are poor metrics because they do not use actual play-by-play data
UZR had him +13 runs over the average CF. He may not be that good, but he is at least a league average defensive centerfielder, which is immensely valuable because there are so few players in baseball with the skills to both play defense and hit as well as a league average CF.
The problem with trading him is that it leaves the Royals with a TPJ-like hole in CF, another premium defensive position that is difficult to fill.
by Gopherballs on May 28, 2008 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe you don't...
understand reality. His OPS in 2007 was 723 with an OPS + of 89. His OPS in 2008 thus far is 701 with an OPS + of 92. Maybe instead of blindly defending the status quo and saying that every member of the team is fine and should never be replaced you should look at things objectively. These numbers are below average and minor league prospects who hit well in AAA can post similar below average numbers. Maybe DeJesus will hit better than average in the future but he appears to be losing a step in the field and at the plate.
News for you. Teahen is not a power hitter. Pena is not a plus plus plus defender. Tomko is not an amazing # 5 pitcher. Guillen has not yet turned out to be a good player for the Royals and Grudz is surplus that is taking away from similar cheaper players.
I know you will break this comment down point by point as condescendingly as possible so fire away.
And it also should have included better statistical analysis
I would direct your attention to Retro’s reply to my comment in which he showed you how much above average DDJ has been for a CFer most of the time. While an OPS+ of 100 is average for all players, it is not the average for every position. 100 is below average for a corner position and above average for positions up the middle. Get it now?
I probably disagree with you.
by Scott McKinney on May 28, 2008 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
And maybe you don't get...
that 2006 was his last above average year. Centerfield is not equivalent to SS where it has to be seperated out. Centerfielders generally hit as well as defend.
2008 doesn't count
He is yet again above CF average this year. And different positions have different averages. DeJesus has usually be above average for his position. Facts are facts.
I probably disagree with you.
by Scott McKinney on May 28, 2008 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Where did you decide that...
2008 didn’t count?
When you said "2006 was his last above average year"
So far, he’s been above average for a CFer this year. And it appears from your analysis of other players, that you think this year’s stats count too.
I probably disagree with you.
by Scott McKinney on May 28, 2008 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
I sorted AL centerfielders...
There are 16 in 2008 with at least 100 at bats. He is 12th. One of the four he is ahead of is Gathright.
Thankfully, no one who figures league position averages uses your methodology
I probably disagree with you.
by Scott McKinney on May 28, 2008 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, and with regard to the laundry list at the end of your post...
...I’m not taking the bait. Your post is full of knee-jerk “I’m so pissed off that this team is losing” emotion and you’re lashing out at pretty much every move Moore has ever made or failed to make. I would suggest you take a few deep breaths.
I probably disagree with you.
by Scott McKinney on May 28, 2008 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Re:Oh, and with regard to the laundry list at the end of your post...
sign Greinke a Evan Longoria type deal now.
The problem is when emotion taints one's analysis, or is substituted for analysis
And, BTW, I’ve been suggesting a DDJ trade since last fall, but not because he’s an average or below average player.
I probably disagree with you.
by Scott McKinney on May 28, 2008 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
No but I'm an expert on yours
you have an undying love and affection for him. Running to his defense at every turn. At this point morse will jump in and the three of you will start scissoring. JK
sign Greinke a Evan Longoria type deal now.
I'm guessing you haven't read any of the many contentious arguments NHZ and I have had
You’re new. You’ll learn.
I probably disagree with you.
by Scott McKinney on May 28, 2008 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
That was one ugly, drunken fight
over the coffin of Justin Huber.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by Matt Klaassen on May 28, 2008 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes,
but it wasn’t one where anyone said the other was going to “scissor” with Justin Huber. :P
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
Yeah, I noticed that right after i hit "post"
ah, South Park, teacher, mother secret lover
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by Matt Klaassen on May 28, 2008 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Good grief.
That’s really mature. I’m sure you get win a lot friends by using the wit and charm you’ve displayed in the above post. All complete with that middle school girl “just kidding” trick at the end. If that’s the best you can do, it’s pretty pathetic.
NYRoyal, as with many other posters here (not you), has earned my respect in part because he can successfully argue a point on which people disagree with him without resorting to ad hominem attacks. You would do well to learn something from such examples.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
ad hominem
big word
“replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the person making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim”
Thank you, Zeppelin.
Was that dictionary.com or did you recite that from memory? :P
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
Wikipedia is great
It told me that Brian Bannister is a Wiccan and that “On July 14 2007, Bannister broke the Guinness world record for juggling the most flaming tennis balls (9)”
I probably disagree with you.
by Scott McKinney on May 28, 2008 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Hee hee
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Pe%C3%B1a%2C_Jr.#See_also
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
No need to hit a man while he's down
You should be doctoring the entry of a successful player.
I probably disagree with you.
by Scott McKinney on May 28, 2008 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Like this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_Gload#Major_League_Career
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
kcscoliny
It’s fine for any and all of us to argue our opinions very passionately. We can even point out the mistakes, illogic, etc. of the arguments of others. But let’s try to keep this from getting personal. We need not moderate our opinions or our arguments, but we can moderate our tone and the personal attacks.
I probably disagree with you.
by Scott McKinney on May 28, 2008 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
You need to hang around longer
And then you’ll undoubtedly see an argument where NHZ and I gang up on NY, and later you’ll see one where NY and I gang up on NHZ, and even later you’ll see one where they gang up on me, and at some point we’ll all be politely calling each other idiots.
In fact, if all three of us actually agree on something even down to the finer details, that in and of itself is probably a good indicator that we’re probably right.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on May 28, 2008 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Personal
sign Greinke a Evan Longoria type deal now.
Please
The whole “scissoring” thing was as personal as it was immature (and it was amazingly immature). And if you think using the phrase “ad hominem” is a big deal then….well, I won’t say what I want to say. Let’s just say that that phrase is a common part of English parlance with which we should all be familiar.
I probably disagree with you.
by Scott McKinney on May 28, 2008 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
No way, NY Royal
and you aren’t off the hook for “intellectualizing” either, kcscoliny, bringing up dinosaurs or something in that last sentence
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by Matt Klaassen on May 28, 2008 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Heaven forbid
anybody use a word right out of a thesaurus. Yup, that’s right. got my thesaurus right here. That’s what I do all day, sit here with a fucking thesaurus.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
Dammit!
Will you assholes stop talking about dinosaurs? And how the hell do you “get words” out of them, your freakin’ prevert!
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by Matt Klaassen on May 28, 2008 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I couldn't find scissoring in my thesaurus
I probably disagree with you.
by Scott McKinney on May 28, 2008 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
You have to scissor it,
you affect-lacking dinosaur.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
(SIGH!)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribadism
Epistemological Question:
What has more authority?
a) wikipedia
b) a former D-I batboy who went 1-6 but that 1 was as rope
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by Matt Klaassen on May 28, 2008 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
You statheads underestimate bat boys
I probably disagree with you.
by Scott McKinney on May 28, 2008 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
People shouldn't complain about seeing words they don't understand
They should look up the word, learn it’s meaning and usage, add it to their lexicon and then quietly thank the person who exposed them to the word and expanded their vocabulary.
I probably disagree with you.
by Scott McKinney on May 28, 2008 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Take it how you
want I’ll wait for morse and NHZ to comment before I make my next comment. You guys are the ones turning this into personal attacks. You’ve talked on other post about how you got rid of fans and I won’t let you get rid of me. I will not let this mediocre attempt of a team go unnoticed here.
Keep dreaming for DDJ/Teah/Pena/German/Callaspo to turn into players and I’ll dream that this GMDM decides to say scrap the bums and lets see what we got in Omaha.
sign Greinke a Evan Longoria type deal now.
by kcscoliny on May 28, 2008 2:54 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
On a baseball topic
DDJ, among others, is, if I’m following the train of thought, considered a “bum.” (Lumped in with TPJ!) Huh. Hey, he probably will need to be traded as soon as a god offer comes up, but I still don’t think he’s a “bum.” But that’s a debate already taking place elsewhere. Or was it here?
I don’t see how the Royals should be scrapping Callaspo when he hasn’t even had a real shot.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by Matt Klaassen on May 28, 2008 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
So wait,
according to your own logic, “you’d have to know [us] guys to make something personal.” And yet now it’s “you guys are the ones turning this into personal attacks.” Do I have a point here, or am I violating your code of “trying to exercise intellectual superiority on a baseball website.” I don’t get it, and I really don’t know what got you so peeved at me in the first place. I disagree with you. I get your point, which is that Aviles should get a shot.
As for “getting rid of fans,” I believe exactly once has someone been banned from RR. And, since Will is the admin, it was him who got to deal with that. And his hand was pretty much forced. No one’s trying to drive anyone off the board.
And once again, you disagree. I frigging get it, already. You still haven’t listened when I’ve said I don’t think Pena is any good, or that Teahen is much of a hitter, or that German is anything but a decent infield bat with a bad glove. See, I think we actually agree on some of these player evaluations, but you’re hung up on Aviles-Pena-Callaspo and you don’t see that.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
"Getting rid of fans"
I’ve seen two people threatened to be removed from the site in the last few weeks and one put on “probation” in the comments I have read in the last few weeks.
By who?
I haven’t threatened to ban anyone. I believe we had a bit of fun at billybutlerformvp’s expense, but he’s not banned (and he kind of walked into it).
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
If I remember correctly...
Steve Phillips was warned as was Billy Butler for MVP. Devil Fingers was put on probation. Not by you or by Will.
Clarification
Billybutler4mvp was indeed warned because he was crossing the line. I reminded Steve Phillis (Joel) to be nice because he had repeatedly crossed the line several times in the past and been banned and come back under different user names (as he did recently by using steve phillips).
And, I was joking with devil_fingers (which was very, very obvious to anyone who read it) when I said I was putting him on “probation.” Let’s not get silly.
I probably disagree with you.
by Scott McKinney on May 28, 2008 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Okay,
so two people, including one who had a little bit of a history, got warned. That doesn’t constitue “talking about people we’ve banned” or, you know, actually banning anyone. Can someone please enlighten me as to what the problem is here?
NYRoyal, do you have front page access now? I can’t seem to remember if Will bestowed it on you.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
Yes, I do. Will did that a month or so ago.
I probably disagree with you.
by Scott McKinney on May 28, 2008 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Just to be clear
I have no problem with anyone on the site, but re: the “probation,” djk royal, if you’re referring to me, I’m pretty sure that was a joke in a series of posts between NYRoyal and myself. If that’s what you’re referring to.
At least I hope it was a joke, since I’ve got a big piece of mudslinging coming out on all you dirty Teahen Lovers! (winky face)
I’d track it down and link to the original exchange, except I’m lazy and can’t figure out how to link to comments.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by Matt Klaassen on May 28, 2008 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, someone should find the "probation" joke
It was silly and some of the most obvious sarcasm I’ve ever attempted. Quite frankly, I think djk knows this.
I probably disagree with you.
by Scott McKinney on May 28, 2008 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll do it, since I brought it up
but can someone post how to link to comments, since I’m to stupid/lazy to figure it out myself. I’m going half the work.
(Man, between this and the pork chops, bloggers stereotype jokes are getting less and less funny for me today)
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by Matt Klaassen on May 28, 2008 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
You can just link to the fanpost or fanshot under which the comment rests
Anyone cares can then do a text search under that post for “probation”. Or, you can just cut and past the relevant back and forth which gave rise to my joke.
I probably disagree with you.
by Scott McKinney on May 28, 2008 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
OK, here's the probation link
http://www.royalsreview.com/2008/5/20/523747/still-confident-i-am-and-h#6233219
You can read up and down to get the whole context, since it spans a couple different subcomments. it was so long ago (last week, talk about virtual time compression…) Ah, remember the ol’ “is Soria more valuable as a reliever than as a starter debate?” At least we put that one to bed…
great joke in there by you, djk royal, about “twice on Sundays,” too.
Can’t we all just get along?
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by Matt Klaassen on May 28, 2008 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Just so everyone knows
You’re on Double Secret Probation now.
I probably disagree with you.
by Scott McKinney on May 28, 2008 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
That does it
right after I (1) Prove that we should sign Soria to a 10/$100 Million contract contingent on him never coming into a game unless it’s a save situation; (2) show that DDJ, Callaspo, and Teahen are all TPJ level drags on the offense; and (3) demonstrate that the mistreatment of Huber will lead to a tailspin resulting in the move of the Royals to Tulsa by 2020, I’m going to TOTALLY ruin the homecoming parade, steal your significant other, and become a U. S. senator.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by Matt Klaassen on May 28, 2008 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I knew it
Well, at least devil_fingers has plus-plus defense.
I probably disagree with you.
by Scott McKinney on May 28, 2008 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh man
I was referring to Animal House, and now I just feel really, really old. NHZ wasn’t even close to born when that came out.
Urgh.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by Matt Klaassen on May 28, 2008 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I was born! I even remember watching it the first time it was on HBO
I probably disagree with you.
by Scott McKinney on May 28, 2008 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
You lost me
You guys are the ones turning this into personal attacks.
Well, let’s just avoid personal attacks entirely, and particularly references to other posters have sex with each other. We should all be better than that, no?
You’ve talked on other post about how you got rid of fans and I won’t let you get rid of me.
I’m not sure what you’re talking about unless you’re talking about a poster getting banned, which as a moderator I can do. But I’m confident you won’t let things devolve to the point where I have to do that.
I will not let this mediocre attempt of a team go unnoticed here.
What is the “mediocre attempt of a team”? NHZ, jonfmorse and me? Or the Royals? If you’re talking about the Royals, then comment on the team all you like. Some will agree with you and some will disagree with you. That’s great. Just keep it clean, respectful and avoid personal attacks. Attack arguments, not people.
Keep dreaming for DDJ/Teah/Pena/German/Callaspo to turn into players
It amazes me that you somehow think DDJ, Teahen, German and Callaspo are bad players and that any of them should be benched in favor of anyone in Omaha. That is simply astounding.
I probably disagree with you.
by Scott McKinney on May 28, 2008 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
MOVE ON
I did mean the Royals. I don’t think DDJ or Teah are bad I never said that. I said they are totally average. I think German is on the downside of his completely avg career. As for Callaspo he is and was a good prospect and I have no prob with him on the team.
I’ll repeat my above points and try to clarify more for each member.
DDJ- Highest trade value of the group (Maier,Lub,Costa, Gator or Teah) in my opinion. His range seems to be declining and therefore his OPS and Arm aren’t what you want in a corner OF’r. Trade him and try to obtain value.
Teah- Suffer thru it
Maier/Lub/Costa- Take the bullet as to which lefty you wanna call up to replace DDJ. Why couldn’t one of them be RH? My pref would probably be Maier he hasn’t been given a shot and maybe (but I doubt it) his speed could be +Speed. Giving another PR option.
Gator- I’m not really as depressed by Gator as everyone else seems to be on this site. The guy is playing to max potential for the most part. His d has been good this year, stealing bases effectively and the last two weeks his eye has improved. He is a solid PR, who when I saw him in person (Balt series) applied a lot of pressure on the pitchers when he was on.
Pena- Cut Bait and run he is in no way a +Defender and I and everyone on this site could at least bunt if we couldn’t hit. No options oh woops. I’ll take Aviles 30+E at SS if he sees the ball like he has all spring and so far this year.
Callaspo- Start him at SS and hope he hits closer to his April than his May.
German- Why do we carry he and Gload on this team? Do we need multiple backup 3b options. He proved last night he can’t play 2b.
Aviles- Platoon him between 2b, SS and 3b ala Jason Smith last year. Give him 200 Ab’s. I think he has earned it. Spring- .419Avg/571Slg PCL 1.003 OPS
I heard a depressing little stat today. Since ‘05 we are now on our 5th 9 (includine 1 19 gamer) game losing streak. Minnesota, Chicago and Cleveland have none in that same time.
sign Greinke a Evan Longoria type deal now.
By the way NYR
you said you look at MILB everyday have you seen the dream matchup in Adv. Single A tonite.
Pedro v. David Price St Lucie v. Vero Beach
sign Greinke a Evan Longoria type deal now.
Actually, I said what I look at on MiLB.com everyday is for the box scores of Royals affiliates
I hadn’t seen that Pedro vs. Price is the matchup tonight. That should be interesting. I must confess I’m more interested in Ed Cegarra’s first start tonight for Wilmington.
I probably disagree with you.
by Scott McKinney on May 28, 2008 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Wilmington
has the best radio announcers of any of our MILB affiliates.
sign Greinke a Evan Longoria type deal now.
off topic...but
seriously?
Kansas City Royals
Chicago Bulls
New England Patriots
Florida Gators Football
Florida Gators Basketball
which of these is not like the others?
not a criticism, just weird
My dad and George Brett doomed me to the Royals
I grew up listening to every game every night and it was lovely until Brett retired. I am giving KC until 2011, I won’t doom my son to them as well. He’s 2 they got til he’s 5. All easy to explain too. Michael Jordan, duh?, Steve Spurrier, Drew Bledsoe (yes I wanted Tom Brady’s head until he delivered) and Gators b-ball just goes with the foosball.
Brett, Jordan and Spurrier all had fire and showed passion as does Tom Brady.
sign Greinke a Evan Longoria type deal now.
If you feel like being a Royals fan is "doom" then shouldn't you be looking for another team?
I’m not trying to run you off and you should be a fan of whatever team you choose, but if you think being a Royals fan is being “doomed” and that you won’t allow your son to be “doomed” like that, shouldn’t you be jumping on some contender’s bandwagon?
I probably disagree with you.
by Scott McKinney on May 28, 2008 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
http://mvn.com/milb-royals/2008/05/28/seriously-isnt-it-time-for-mike-aviles/
sign Greinke a Evan Longoria type deal now.

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