Backlash
Interesting post by Sam Mellinger regarding Guillen's tirade: http://royalsblog.kansascity.com/?q=node/122
I'm a big fan of a good tirade, and its nice to see that Jose actually cares. It will be interesting to see if anyone actually responds...to be a clubhouse leader, you have to be that EVERYDAY, not just on convenient occasions. I do agree that is time to get out of the "Milk and Cookies" era, though and this could help.
I was fortunate enough to hear the rant on the radio this morning, too bad about the censoring...He must have dropped 50 f-bombs in the span of 2 minutes...it was one of the best f-bomb rants since Steve Martin at the car rental counter in planes, trains and automobiles.
DeJesus update...Rumor has it he broke out in hives after an allergic reaction to "having the lead"!!!!!!!!!!!1
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I agree
was glad to hear that Guillen went off. He looked really pissed last night after we blew it.
by I need more Esteban on May 29, 2008 10:18 AM EDT reply actions
Anyone in the KC area
810 is going to play the Guillen rant after the next commercial break. I’m sure it’s possible to hear on the internet but just thought I’d throw it out there.
by I need more Esteban on May 29, 2008 10:21 AM EDT reply actions
I am really beginning to hate his selfish attitude
Only caring about how this losing affects him!
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Milk, Cookies, Babies, and tantrums
Keep in mind I’ve only read about Guillen’s outburst, haven’t been able to hear it from where I am. But, anyway
Yeah, the Royals definitely lost because of the players’ attitudes, not because Hillman panicked and brought in a flyball pitcher to face an all-or-nothing hitter, or because he decided for some reason to not switch Teahen and Gload (seriously, I don’t understand that. Is there some rule I don’t know about that you can’t have guys switch positions?). Or just bad timing and dumb luck.
I’ll admit that I had and have my doubts about the Guillen signing. Despite that, I do think he’s a good player who should have decent numbers at the end of the year. I don’t think he’s “selfish,” at least not especially so. His problems over the years are less selfishness than just immaturity and temper problems. Whatever. I don’t think his rant is a big deal. It happens all the time in sports.
Having said that, I don’t know Mellinger’s writing in general, so I don’t want to make a global judgment, but that piece is idiotic. And predictable. I know it’s a reaction to a streak, and the last two losses have been really awful, but the fact remains - the Royals are losing right now because they just aren’t very good yet. It isn’t because of an “attitude.” Uh, Mike Sweeney’s problem wasn’t that he was too nice, no matter what some brave Royals player anonymously said to some reporter. It was that he got hurt - hey, that sucks, it wasn’t his fault. Hey, I probably wasn’t as generous to Sweeney as I should have been either. But facts worthless ol’ “nice” Mike, even after his decline, has an career OPS+ of 119. New leader Jose Guillen, the man who “knows why the Royals are losing?” Career OPS+: 100. Awesome. A league-average hitting corner OF. Guillen’s “leadsership” better be worth a lot (intangibles!) if he’s just going to hit his career average. Yes, for the record, think he’ll be better than that by the end of the season. Frankly,. he’d better be if he’s going to talk shit like this.
I think all the puff-pieces which talk about the “new culture” brought on Moore and Hillman are silly, especially when they bring in the religious stuff. People have a right to be skeptical and mock that when it’s implied that it’s going to make a difference in winning baseball games. But I sure hope those same people take writers and Guillen to task for thinking that “milk-and-cookies” is the problem, and that tantrums and “calling people out” is the real answer, and not waiting for the talent to improve, a bit of luck to turn, and, yes, for the manager to make some better decisions.
So I think that Guillen’s rant is silly, but it’s the usual sports stuff, no better or worse than dreamy puff pieces. Mellinger’s endorsement is stupid, though, if he thinks this sort of rant makes a real difference.
But you want a piece of emotional over-reaction? Here’ s mine, and take it with a grain of salt (yes, I’m prepared to be ripped, I guess):
Jose, you’re a good hitter and a good player. I hope that you are still able to be above average (hey, a B+ isn’t bad!) when the Royals are contending in a couple of years. But are you sure you know so much more about winning than the “babies” in the locker room (who, oddly enough for babies, didn’t throw a tantrum which said that “we’re all responsible” while pretty much implying that you are the only one who has the right attitude)? I haven’t followed your career that closely, so I’m not quite sure what to make of your incredible contributions to those monuments to winning baseball like the 1997-1999 Pirates, the 1999-2001 Devil Rays, the 2002-2003 Reds, the Nationals, and the Mariners. I know, maybe my sarcasm is misplaced, you did play 45 games with the As in 2003, and I’m sure your 45 games of 101 OPS+ (above average!) in addition your winning attitude pushed them right over the top into the playoffs that year. Not to mention your awesome contribution to the 2004 Angels, as you were obviously seen as having indispensible leadership qualities, shall we say, by your teammates and management going into the playoffs.
Jose, I realize that there might be a language barrier here, like when you thought you had been promised the start in right field this year. I also know that sarcasm doesn’t always transmit over the intertubez, like when someone in a game thread thinks I’m serious when I respond to one of your awesome one pitch at-bats by demanding you be traded for Donnie Murphy or something. Hey, a slump is a slump, and you’ve been pretty freakin’n’ hot lately.
But I just think it’ s a bit much for a guy with your., um, outstanding record to talk crap about not knowing how to win and whatnot. Now, I realize that the reporters eat that shit up. They also might be a bit afraid of you, but who wouldn’t be, given your awesome maturity and non-baby-record of not losing your cool, and now that you’ve shed those 25 extra pounds that accompanied you to spring training (only immature babies who “don’t know how to win” work out in the offseason, I guess), and even at their best, sportswriters are even bigger out-of-shape-fatasses than you were at the beginning of March.
You know how to win and lead a team in the locker room. That’s obviously why the Royals brought you in. That’s obviously why you’ve changed teams so often—there’s just so much demand for your rocket arm, often above-average hitting, and, above all, winning attitude, which was so much in surplus in 2004 that the Angels decided that any more “winning attitude” would be too much in the playoffs. Trey Hillman needs you. And maybe you need him, a bit, since he was smart enough not to bench you during your slightly underpowered performance the first month of the season. I’m sure that has nothing to do with you having his back, though.
You should have called out pussies like Gordon and Greinke by name, though. Who cares if you make Zack’s list of people he doesn’ t want to be around? Just because he’s been one of the best pitchers in the AL doesn’t mean he’s not responsible for the “baby” attitude that isn’t helping the team win. Unlike you, he wasn’t asked to leave a team, he did it voluntarily because of a mental health condition (that was probably made up anyway). And Gordon… sheesh. What a spoiled whiner. He only has a higher OPS than you because he’s the “golden boy.” Stop smirking and start throwing stuff around, college boy!
But, in the end,. Jose, while I think you are a good player, and I don’t think you are selfish (at least no more than your average ballplayer), given some… questions about your past record and performance, maybe you should tone down the totally un-baby-like tantrums. At least until your on-base percentage is higher than a Royals regular not named “Tony Pena, Jr.”
/emotional over-reaction to Guillen’s emotional over-reaction
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by Matt Klaassen on May 29, 2008 11:14 AM EDT reply actions 4 recs
+1
Piling on and pointing fingers when you’ve underachieved, are the highest paid player on the team and showed up for camp 25 pounds overweight for the second straight years because you were banking on your mandatory steroid vacation are not exactly team leader qualities.
yeah, Manwich should shut his trap
especially in the offseason, when he’s thinking about stuffing some food in it
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i gave it a rec for length
no way in hell i am reading all that, but i’ll probably agree with you on effort alone
by ZeppelinDZ on May 29, 2008 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
haha
fair enough
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by Matt Klaassen on May 29, 2008 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I Actually Read
The whole thing, and, though I’ve not heard the rant in question, I think you make valid points. I don’t know enough specifics to agree or disagree definitively, but I agree that emotions, aside from releasing a little extra adrenalin, have little to do with performance in sports.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on May 30, 2008 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
I was with you
...until the slams on Greinke and Gordon. Those two were instrumental when the Royals were winning earlier this year (which seems like last year or several years ago now) while Jose was in a slump. I know you probably meant this sarcastically, but I’m really sick of Greinke-bashing in general.
Bygones.
Yup, sarcastic
hard to tell there because I switch back and forth without good markers. Greinke has by far been the Royals best pitcher (and player, probably—Soria’s awesome,but in limited innings), and Gordon is the best hitter. The slams were sarcastic swipes at Guillen.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by Matt Klaassen on May 30, 2008 1:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Jose's reaction is good
Whether people want to admit it or not having an attitude works for some teams. I would rather this team follow a guy like Guillen than Teah’s laissez faire joke it off mentality. It sucks to lose and Butler and Gordon should care about it. I’m not saying that this team has the talent to win a division or a title but its these lean years and what the young players learn from it that will develop their attitude and mentality for later in their career when hopefully they have enough talent on this team to win.
sign Greinke a Evan Longoria type deal now.
I just think
that everyone already cares…and that Jose’s rant was unnecessary. Still, much ado about small beer.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
I would have preferred
he do this behind closed doors – that’s what a leader should do. Stuff like this is important, but it does no good to air it publicly.
Think about your own work situation. Would you respect a colleague who had a problem with your work and confronted you privately in your office, or who discussed it publicly in a company meeting?
FWIW, Guillen did not exclude himself from blame in his tirade, nor did he throw his manager under the bus. I think those are both good things.
I like Jose, even if he is a "hothead"
I’m very happy that Jose stood behind Trey, I mean.. it is the guys first year as a major league manager. He’s going to make plenty of mistakes. It’s called learning. Even if he has managed before in Japan/minors.. nothing is quite like the bigs.
maybe Jose will/did tear into the young guys behind closed doors for all we know. I think that’d be good, from my personal experiance in sports; The coaches/older players that were more rough on us ended up getting more out of us. I’m not saying constantly yelling and punishing but when things go wrong when they shouldn’t, its not always bad to bite some peoples heads off so that they can pull them out of their asses. And get back to work with more tenacity.
Crap, lost the original post
It was another one that was too long, and I won’t re-do it here. Just to reiterate: I want to like Guillen (although he makes it awfully hard), and I don’t mind a big of hotheadedness. I think his stats at the end of the year will be decent ($11 million decent? I really don’t know. Too complicated for here.) Yeah, it would have been better behind closed doors.
I will say that his statements including “everyone” need to be put up against his calling people “babies.” That’s clearly aimed at others. I think that’s crap, especially for a guy who is still underperforming after a giant hot streak—unless you accept the “loser” Royals standard where a .702 OPS from a corner outfielder who is your highest paid player is acceptable. Exactly what are these winning techniques and attitudes (aside from the obvious ones… I’ll leave aside obvious snide comments here)? Does he really think this rant is going to ring true with young guys like Gordon and Greinke who are obviously outplaying him right now? Are they going to help Butler develop faster? Is Tony Pena, Jr.’s problem just a bad attitude, or that he sucks?
I’m glad he stuck by his manager, which he should do. But, in context, it was in the process of throwing the “babies” under the bus.
I’m going to stop now, because it isn’t that big of a deal. I hope Guillen does well for the Royals (and, full disclosure, for my fantasy team). A lot of players come to camp overweight and out of shape. Some of those players are the highest paid players on yiou team. Many players called out those on steroids. Some of those players later got busted for it. A lot of players have a reputation for losing it in games, throwing bats, and getting asked not to come back to the team during a season. A lot of players underperform. I would humbly suggest, however, that if all those things are are true of one particular player, that he might be a bit more circumspect before publicly ranting about the “losing atmosphere” of his current team.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
I have to hand it to you...
you’re a talented writer.
No, I'm not
Thank you, I’m flattered. But Joe Posnanski, royalsreview, and Bill Simmons are examples of talented writers. I’m a loud and fast talker/bullshitter with too much time on my hands given my alleged career, marginal typing skills given my demographic, a derivative sense of humor, and a desparate need for attention. But thanks, anyway. You the Man, too.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by Matt Klaassen on May 29, 2008 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Just curious...
have there been other players recently who have been essentially kicked off the team midseason like Guillen was in Anaheim? I can’t think of any offhand. Elijah Dukes maybe.
Let's not go nuts
Elijah Dukes basically entered the Tyson Zone ([TM] Bill Simmons), bent it over, made his, um, wilderness bride, and renamed it the Elijah Dukes F*ck Shop last year, so Guillen’s not even close to being the same category as that.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by Matt Klaassen on May 29, 2008 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Anyway
I can’t think of it in baseball, but Keyshawn Johnson and T.O. in football come to mind from the recent past.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by Matt Klaassen on May 29, 2008 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I can think of
Julio Lugo in Houston for allegedly beating his wife
Julio Mateo in Seattle for the same
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on May 30, 2008 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
It worked for that manager in Bull Durham
The manager asked Crash what to do. Crash told him, “they’re kids – scare ‘em”.
Manager unleashed the funnest tirade in baseball ever (this is a simple game…)
maybe Soria
needs to sleep with Gordon’s wife accidentally. Seemed to work for them
Billy at worst will be Sean Casey jr.
i like how
seamlessly the jokes switched from Bull Durham to major league
besides our problems are because we don’t get enough ground balls, they are more democratic and will free Iraq
Actually
it was 32 f-bombs in 4 minutes and with about 5 to 6 shits in there for good measure, one of the guys on 610 this morning actually counted them
Marriage is a great institution, for those that like being in institutions.
but did he throw a bottle of jim beam at someone?
me thinks not
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