Love that Treyball: 147 straight trips to the plate without a walk for the boys in blue. The Royals...

Love that Treyball: 147 straight trips to the plate without a walk for the boys in blue. The Royals have not drawn a walk since DeJesus drew a free pass in the finale of the Toronto series.

about 1 year ago royalsreview 35 comments 0 recs |

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That's because...

teams have figure out all you have to do is throw it down the middle every pitch and you’ll get complete games with under 100 pitches from your starters.

by djk royal on May 29, 2008 10:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

As long as Aviles is at the plate

Did you see his first plate apperance. I wish he would have swung at at least one of those three pitches straight down the middle. I hope he shows that he knows how to hit sometime soon.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on May 29, 2008 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

He looked like a deer in headlights…yikes.

by cookierojas73 on May 29, 2008 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wonder if they'll make him the nearly full-time SS for a while

I can’t imagine he deserves that kind of “shot” but it will be interesting to see how that experiment works. And if he doesn’t hit very well, I wonder how long it will be before the pro-Aviles people jump off his bandwagon. If they are expecting good hitting, they’re going to be disappointed. I’d still rather see Callaspo at SS and German at 2B (Aviles can get some of those 2B starts as well).

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on May 29, 2008 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You know who else doesn't

deserve that kind of shot. Pena.

by djk royal on May 29, 2008 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Is anyone debating that at this point?

I don’t think anyone is saying that Pena should get most of the starts at SS. Callaspo is the best SS in the Royals organization at this point. He should be playing SS, not Aviles.

When we’re talking about Aviles, we need to stop arguing with this strawman called Pena. The choice at SS is not merely between Aviles and Pena. Callaspo is also in the mix. He is likely a better defensive SS and I believe he’s likely the better hitter.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on May 30, 2008 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Callaspo

...is certainly the best hitting SS in the Royals organization.

I think it’s worth giving Aviles a look so that he may fit into the equation as the backup SS instead of TPJ. It seems like the FO is pretty set on TPJ playing some sort of role on the 25-man roster, and I hope that is revised expediently.

by Stat Ninja on May 30, 2008 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wouldn't mind having a backup SS who is a light hitting, very good defensive SS

...particularly if the #1 SS is not a plus defender at SS. Quite frankly, I think Aviles is going to be a below average hitting middle IFer. That is not the kind of backup SS I’d want to have unless the #1 SS has a great glove. So a lot depends on who the #1 SS is next season. It won’t be TPJ.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on May 30, 2008 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Aviles

I know what you mean and feel your pain, but it was also good to see him taking some pitches, too. TPJ does not take, even pitches in the dirt. Aviles didn’t walk tonight, but in order to eventually do so, a batter must be willing to take. Maybe Mike Barnett hasn’t completely corrupted his mind yet.

by Stat Ninja on May 30, 2008 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Taking pitches

In my opinion, good hitting is all about swinging at hitter’s pitches. You show patience and plate discipline by waiting for the pitcher to throw a pitch that you can make good contact on. Aviles took three fastballs right down the middle. That is an example of where “taking pitches” is not a good thing. I could go up there and take three fastballs down the middle. While it would show patience, it wouldn’t make me a good hitter. In fact, that is bad hitting. (I’m not saying Aviles is a bad hitter, but that was a horrible plate appearance).

Good hitting isn’t all about patience. It is about the right mix of patience/discipline and aggression. Wait for your pitch and then hit it. One can be too aggressive. One can also be too “patient,” by taking too many good pitches.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on May 30, 2008 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

taking pitches

I agree that he should not have taken all three strikes. Don Mattingly and Wade Boggs always took the first pitch, no matter what. Boggs was one of many who preferred to hit with two strikes. Taking pitches and hitting with two strikes are fundamental aspects of these very good hitters’ approaches, I think anyone would agree. Aviles has no chance of being that good, so maybe he should try to be a 1-strike hitter if not a 2-strike hitter.

by Stat Ninja on May 30, 2008 1:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

More on taking pitches

Yes, some great hitters always take the first pitch. Most good and great hitters don’t always take the first pitch. While I’m not against always (or almost always) taking the first pitch, I don’t think it is a necessary element to good hitting. It is one way to go about it. It isn’t the way most good hitters approach a plate appearance.

Good hitting is about taking bad pitches and swinging at good pitches. That can include taking first pitches. It can even include swinging at some very hittable first pitches. But I don’t think there are any hard and fast rules here.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on May 30, 2008 1:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Taking those pitches

In his first plate appearance all three pitches were on the outside edge. While every Royal in the lineup swings at those pitches it doesn’t make it right. When the count got 0-2 he should’ve swung and tried to foul them off and work the count for his pitch. What is exactly wrong with every hitter in the Royals lineup is that they think that just cause it’s a strike you have to swing. Yes with 2 strikes you do but not with 0 or 1. Work the count ala ManRam find your pitch and hit it hard. All 3 of Aviles plate appearances were forgetable but it was his first big league game and nerves come into play.

Billy at worst will be Sean Casey jr.

by kcscoliny on May 30, 2008 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If we gave Tony Pena 50+

games we can give Aviles 100 AB’s. He’ll be fine he got a bad ump call on his second AB and his third he just missed his pitch. If he actually goes away from every other hitter in this lineup and looks for his pitch he’ll be fine.

Billy at worst will be Sean Casey jr.

by kcscoliny on May 30, 2008 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"He'll be fine"

I wonder what that means? Will he manage an OPS over .700?

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on May 30, 2008 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree that his first game doesn't tell you anything

But in his first plate appearance, those pitches weren’t on the outside edge. Not particularly close. They were all very easily hittable fastballs pretty close to down the middle. There’s no excuse for keeping the bat on your shoulder for all three of them. I can understand taking the first pitch on principle. But not the second or the third. That was a horrible plate appearance. Hopefully it was just nerves.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on May 30, 2008 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bingo

by cookierojas73 on May 29, 2008 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Temporarily....

....oh, but just temporarily, all is right with the world!

Oh, I’ve killed my post-victory trademark phrase? Ah, to hell with it. I won’t use it again, anyway, or at least for a very, very long time.

SAVE THIS FRANCHISE NOW!

The Nation at large.

by Royals Nation on May 29, 2008 11:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

This has nothing to do...

With us facing three starters that don’t walk anyone in the first place, does it?

Probably not. Blame Trey.

Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.

by doublestix on May 29, 2008 11:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

but ZERO walks

zero?

two of the games went to extra innings

by royalsreview on May 30, 2008 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Did you see them swinging at a lot of bad pitches?

You really can’t argue with a MLB batter swinging at hittable pitches.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on May 30, 2008 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

so how many more games should be acceptable?

by royalsreview on May 30, 2008 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would argue that we should look at the actual plate appearances...

...instead of just saying that if we don’t draw any walks, then obviously the batters used a poor approach. Hacking at all kinds of first pitches and swinging at a lot of balls outside of the strike zone is a poor approach. Not drawing walks can be the product of pitchers throwing strikes. When pitchers are throwing strikes and you just take, take, take pitches, you end up with Aviles’s first plate appearance.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on May 30, 2008 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

our approach sucks.

how’s that for analysis?

by blue bandwagon on May 30, 2008 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's worth about what it costs

Actually I think the vast majority of fans don’t like the results and don’t pay much attention to the approach. Are we first pitch swinging too much? Are we swinging at too many balls out of the zone? Unfortunately, I think the problem isn’t as much with the approach as that our guys just aren’t getting hits when they are swinging at balls actually in the strike zone.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on May 30, 2008 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

essentially

the majority of our hitters aren’t good.

Accidentally not thedude925 anymore. I do hate this new name.

by wildthang on May 30, 2008 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The majority of our hitters haven't been very good so far in the first third of the season

I occasionally like to remind people that things that happen in one-quarter, one-third or even one half of the season do not necessarily dictate what happens in the other three-fourths, two-thirds of second half of the season.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on May 30, 2008 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You mean Miguel Olivo isn't the second coming of Josh Gibson?

Half-assed analysis:

I would say that for now, of the regulars, Gordon and Guillen are good hitters (I’m assuming Guillen will refvert to form and get over .800 OPS by the end of the season).

Teahen’s a mystery to me (sorry, I know it’s getting old, but he’s an enigma)
Buck - without looking, probably will end up at least average for an AL C
DDJ - good hitter, assuming his decline isn’t too serious this year
Grudz - maybe still above average for position,
Callaspo - hard to tell how far above average he’ll be
TPJ - worthy heir to Berroa’s bat
Gathright - Even better than TPJ
Butler - not good at the moment, hard to believe he won’t be, but maybe not this year, only 22
Aviles - only question is whether he’ll win 1 or 2 Triple Crowns in the next 5 years
Gload—hitting ability has exploded into a decline, although he might improve to the point of being an average AL middle infielder by the end of the season

So I guess that’s only two guys I count as being likely to be “good” (meaning good hitters this year). Other guys are hard to gauge for various reasons, in some cases, too young. Some guys can’t be expected to be good, in my opinion—TPJ, Gathright, Gload. Aviles is the only sure Hall of Famer.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on May 30, 2008 1:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd like to remind people

That even if our hitters get to their historical averages, we’re among the worst offenes in the big leagues.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on May 30, 2008 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

None.

But until hitters start pounding strikes for XBH, pitchers (with control) will not nibble. They don’t have to. The lack of walks isn’t necessarily the result of poor approaches (especially in a lineup devoid of TPJ). I’m not sure which analysis is more frustrating: 1) The Royals don’t walk because pitchers have nothing to lose by throwing strikes; or 2) The Royals don’t walk because aggressiveness is preached. Option 1 means the talent sucks. Option 2 means the organizational mindset is stuck in the 1960’s. I’m pulling for Option 1, I guess, but that is depressing.

by stuckinstl12 on May 30, 2008 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I take it I didn't miss a rousing comback?

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on May 30, 2008 12:16 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Treyball or Mike Barnett?

I personally don’t know which one has more to do with the Royals’ recent outbreak of “aggressive hitting”, so I wouldn’t blame Trey Hillman without a quote from him that he doesn’t think walks are important or something.

by Stat Ninja on May 30, 2008 1:00 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Royals have ten less walks than the Mariners

The next worse team in terms of bb. Almost half (13) teams have fifty more walks than the Royals and the Red Birds have over a hundred more. Embarrassing

by sal fasano on May 30, 2008 1:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The Twins

control pitchers are great at hitting their spots. Gordon, Guillen and Olivo right now are the only hitters in the lineup that a pitcher can miss his spot and be punished for it. If you miss with Teahen, Gload, DDJ, Callaspo, Grudz or Joey what is the worst that could happen a line drive single. That being said I didn’t see Slowey missing too much kept the ball out of the hitters real comfort zone. Our hitters just don’t know how to look for pitches they can drive. They swing at everything.

Also I love the way Olivo is playing the game right now but I question his calling of it. I think Buck is a better catcher at calling pitches but his arm concerns me.

Billy at worst will be Sean Casey jr.

by kcscoliny on May 30, 2008 11:15 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs