Love That Treyball

by royalsreview on May 5, 2008 11:07 PM EDT in News

Walks Drawn: 0

Caught Stealings:1

Extra-base Hits: 1

---------------------

Runs Scored: 0

Oh, and Joakim Soria never appeared in a game that was tied 0-0 going into the 9th. Instead, the 9th inning (with the heart of the Angel order coming up) was left in the hands of Ramirez, Gobble and Peralta. Gobble and Peralta are probably fourth and fifth best relievers on the team.

But, if the Royals had been winning 4-1, and the 7-8-9 hitters were due up, Soria woulda totally slammed the door. Totally.

p.s. I would be remiss without paying respect to Brett Tomko tonight: seven innings pitched, two walks, seven strikeouts, no runs allowed. Your Tomko ERA Update stands at 4.98, and he is now 30th amongst active pitchers in innings pitched.

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Chalk the Cinco de Mayo loss to Hillman

With home field advantage, there is simply no reason Soria shouldn’t have entered the game to begin the 9th inning. No reason at all.

The Nation at large.

by Royals Nation on May 5, 2008 11:14 PM EDT reply reply 0 recs

gooo

i had night class (can’t wait for next week, it’s almost done!) then dining with my wife (it’s my bday…) and missed the whole damn thing. it seems that was a good thing.

The first thing I know about someone in a KC hat is that they're loyal.

by grantfunk on May 5, 2008 11:16 PM EDT reply reply 0 recs

maybe trey...

thought we were the visiting team.

by blue bandwagon on May 5, 2008 11:18 PM EDT reply reply 0 recs

Well, the Angels have fountains, too, right? And it was above 40 degrees. I can see how he might be confused.

by Professor Chaos on May 5, 2008 11:19 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

Hillman did not distinguish himself, but I wouldn't put the loss entirely or even mostly on his head

Santana pitched an amazing game. He won that game for the Angels.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on May 5, 2008 11:18 PM EDT reply reply 0 recs

Agreed. But at what point do you say...

CMON!! PERALTA are you kidding me, why in the world would you bring him in, in the 9th inning.. he sucks so bad.. i hope all of you are happy about your cries for peralta when nomo was doing bad. because now instead of nomo giving up 4 we have peralta who will only give up 3 so hey.. we got the better pitcher :)

A lot of you wont like me... by I assure you my opinion will be voiced GO ROYALS!

by focs on May 5, 2008 11:26 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

It was clearly a mistake

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on May 5, 2008 11:27 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

true true

it really isn’t Hillman’s fault, not 90% or even 98% of tonight’s game

but as the manager, its his job to control and maximize that 2% at the margins, and he didnt do that tonight

by royalsreview on May 5, 2008 11:33 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

Agreed

I think he was playing for a longer extra inning game. And you just can’t do that.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on May 5, 2008 11:35 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

Yes

I thought the same thing, which might be the only way to (sort of) explain his poor decision to let Pena bat in the eighth instead of sending up Callaspo (a lefty and infinitely better hitter than Pena).

by cookierojas73 on May 6, 2008 9:37 AM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

Would Santana have shutout any team tonight?

I have to think that while he looked spectacular, an average or good or great offense would have tallied one run off the guy.

With that in mind, wouldn’t Soria have entered the ninth? And judging by his recent track record, he probably would have shown his usual ‘G’ form.

I advocated using Soria in the 9th before it even started, but then again….that was just me….and I’m certainly not qualified to be manager.

The Nation at large.

by Royals Nation on May 5, 2008 11:45 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

He entered the game with a 5-0 record

and an ERA under 3.

I wouldn’t have bet against him shutting out any team.

Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!

by cmkeller on May 6, 2008 10:50 AM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

"I'm certainly not qualified to be manager."

Maybe you should start drinking more.

Grow a mullet, too, while you’re at it.

Hope is not a strategy. And neither is playing Tony Pena every day. (Rany Jazayerli)

by devil_fingers on May 6, 2008 1:49 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

I won't defend Hillman stupidly using Peralta

But regarding sending Ramirez out to pitch the 9th: Ramirez has been absolute money for us so far, and I don’t think he had thrown a ton of pitches in the 8th. Soria has pitched the previous two games and might’ve needed a night off—if that were the case, then Ramirez is, aside from maybe Mahay, the most reliable alternative we have right now.

I probably would’ve put Soria in as well, since it was the 9th of a tied game and we were the home team. But I can at least understand why Hillman would leave Ramirez in.

Throwing Peralta at the Angels, though, was just plain stupid.

by DarthYoshi on May 6, 2008 12:03 AM EDT reply reply 0 recs

yea... I actually have been thinking about this

Maybe soria was unofficially unavailable more or less… we’ll probably never know

You are right, it’s the peralta call (no Mahay? no Nunez?) that just completely baffles…

by royalsreview on May 6, 2008 12:49 AM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

I agree about last night

as Peralta hasn’t been quite right this season, but he doesn’t totally suck. I thought he was pretty good the previous two seasons.

Hope is not a strategy. And neither is playing Tony Pena every day. (Rany Jazayerli)

by devil_fingers on May 6, 2008 1:51 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

+1

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on May 6, 2008 5:27 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

I'm still caught up on him not walking Kotchman to put runners on the corners with one out.

A ground ball and you’re out of the inning with no damage. That has to be better odds than letting the hottest guy in their lineup hit with a runner on third and one outs, right??? I think Hillman out-managed himself.

Blown Save

by BlownSave on May 6, 2008 12:53 AM EDT reply reply 0 recs

and of course my favorite stats to look at when we don't score runs

Pena At Bats – 3
Ground Outs/Put Outs to Shortstop – 1

This space intentionally left blank.

by marbotty on May 6, 2008 1:18 AM EDT reply reply 0 recs

I don't get all the hard feelings toward Hillman

He’s trying to win a race with one leg. He has no offense whatsoever. The pressure is on the front office. No offense to Dayton Moore. He’s been wonderful with bringing in pitchers, but we’ve got to get some runs at some point. This whole philosophy of “waiting for the young guys to come around” is stupid. Maybe I’m just drinking the Hillman kool-aid, but I think the guy’s doing a hell of a job with what he’s been given. Maybe he’s overmanaging. At least he’s trying different things. You gotta do something when you’re lucky to score one per game.

by royaldaddy on May 6, 2008 2:33 AM EDT reply reply 0 recs

I don't think anyone is saying that the Royals have a losing record because of Hillman

...or that the losses are Hillman’s fault. From what I’ve seen, the criticisms of Hillman have been about specific moves he’s made. When he fucks up, he should be called on it. He’s giving up outs and baserunners freely. He’s robbing this team of runs. He is of course not the primary reason the offense has sucked. But his “aggressive on the basepaths” BS has hurt this team’s chances to score runs. He deserves criticism for that. He also deserves criticism when he uses the wrong pitcher.

The fact that he’s “trying to do something” isn’t any kind of justification for screwing up and hurting your team’s chance to win a game. When you make the wrong move and make it harder for your team to win, you screwed up.

Remember when Buddy Bell sacrificed too much and sometimes used the wrong pitcher. Didn’t it make sense to criticize him for those bad moves?

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on May 6, 2008 2:53 AM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

He wouldn't make as many mistakes

were the offense scoring more runs on its own. Watching this team bat is like watching a car wreck that takes 3 hours to happen. You have to try something, don’t you?

by 390 on May 6, 2008 5:10 AM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

Mistakes

If the team were scoring more runs, his mistakes would be masked better and their negative impact would be lessened.

You have to try something, don’t you?

You can either do something to help the team, or something to hurt the team. If you are running and sacrificing the team out of outs and baserunners, you’re hurting the team. It doesn’t make these bad moves ok just because he wants to do something, anything to help the team score more runs. What if he reacted to the poor hitting by making everyone bunt? That would be trying something, right? Would that make it ok? Would that make it a positive move to help the team win? Certainly not. He is responding to the poor hitting with an offensive strategy which actually makes it harder for the team to score runs. That’s not really defensible.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on May 6, 2008 12:31 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

I had typed up a response and it disappeared into internet purgatory...

Anyway, I think it is defensible and we might as well have bunted everyone last night. We would all be bitching if he wans’t doing anything – as that would be indefensible.

I’m curious how many of the outs on the basepaths are player caused as opposed to HIllman calling for something. I would think Joey (and probably Gordon and others) had the green light early on, so pin the early woes on them. I doubt Hillman told Ross Gload try to steal 3rd. Anyway, I think Hillman has reeled that in based on the fact that we aren’t going nearly as often as we were. I didn’t get to see the whole game, but was DJ getting caught the only issue?

I think Hillman is trying to get the most out of his mediocre players. Botching a hit-and-run or not being able to get a bunt down is solely on the players. A lot of the blame lies on those underperforming players and possibly Dayton for not geting better players. Hillman is to blame for running TPJ out there so much and using Nomo in a tied ballgame (WTF was that?).

I hate baserunning blunders, botched hit-and-runs, etc… as much as any of you guys, but (I assume) we all hate losing more. So as long as there is a concerted effort to win games, I’m for it. It’s still pretty early in the season, we aren’t far behind, and there are plenty of options for getting better that we can use. I will be significantly disappointed if our offense is not performing better by late May – early June. I don’t care whether it’s through players figuring out how to stop sucking, or Dayton goes out and nabs a slugger. I think Hillman will adjust as needed, and that the ridiculous running into outs will drop to a normal level sooner rather than later.

Go Royals.

Don't Stop Believing!

by KC Chris on May 6, 2008 3:13 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

My response

Anyway, I think it is defensible and we might as well have bunted everyone last night. We would all be bitching if he wans’t doing anything – as that would be indefensible.

The “something” he needs to do is work on plate discipline, hitting skills and scouting reports with his players. I’m sure he’s doing that, at least to some degree. But it is entirely wrong to say that he should just do something, anything in an effort to score runs. What is indefensible is robbing a poor offense of outs and baserunners. It’s like treating an anorexic by putting her on a diet. He, she’s sick, we have to do something, right?

I’m curious how many of the outs on the basepaths are player caused as opposed to HIllman calling for something. I would think Joey (and probably Gordon and others) had the green light early on, so pin the early woes on them. I doubt Hillman told Ross Gload try to steal 3rd.

Everytime a runner attempts to steal a base, he has the green light from Hillman. It’s either a green light at that specific time or a perpetual green light. These guys are running like crazy and it is often the wrong guys at the wrong times against the wrong pitchers and/or catchers. THAT is on Hillman. He can put up the green light and he can put up the red light. He’s giving them the wrong light.

I think Hillman is trying to get the most out of his mediocre players. Botching a hit-and-run or not being able to get a bunt down is solely on the players.

Wrong. First, you use the strategy in a circumstance which is appropriate for the players. I’ve seen him hit-and-run with Pena at the plate and Gload first. There couldn’t be a worse time for a hit-and-run. Second, hit-and-run is inherently a risky and usually bad strategy in that it the risk is usually greater than the benefit. Again, the mere fact that he’s trying “something” doesn’t make it a good move.

A lot of the blame lies on those underperforming players and possibly Dayton for not geting better players.

The fact that the Royals are hitting poorly is not Hillman’s fault. The fact that the offense has scored so few runs is mostly not Hillman’s fault. He is to blame for a small percentage of that. But he does deserve blame for decreasing the run scoring potential of this offense by giving away outs and baserunners.

I hate baserunning blunders, botched hit-and-runs, etc… as much as any of you guys, but (I assume) we all hate losing more. So as long as there is a concerted effort to win games, I’m for it.

Effort isn’t the only thing that is important. I’m sure when Hillman gives Gload the green light or calls for a sac bunt or hit-and-run, he’s doing his best to help the team win. Unfortunately, those strategies are hurting the team. His “concerted effort” is decreasing the chances that the Royals will win. I’m not for that.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on May 6, 2008 4:31 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

It's simple.

If a manager fails to understand that the left-handed hitter coming to the plate hits lefties 40 points better over the course of his career (and is hitting .525 against them this year), and thus brings in a lefty to face him? He’s not doing his JOB. Last night, Trey Hillman made a mindless, by-rote decision that may well have cost us the game by giving the Angels’ hottest hitter the platoon advantage; in doing so, he was attempting to play for one out (taking the risk that said out would score the runner anyway) rather than doing the intelligent thing and putting Kotchman on, leaving Ramirez in the game, and trying to double up Hunter.

That one move failed on multiple levels, every single one of which can be chalked up to “bad percentage decision-making”. Hillman is managing a team with little margin for error; if he can’t even play the percentages properly, what good is he?

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on May 6, 2008 3:18 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

This team just can't hit right now...

It’s becoming really depressing. Six of our starting nine are veterans with three others in their second year. It’s time to produce. Not sure what you do if this group we decided to make our core is really this bad. There just isn’t any extrabase power and very little plate discipline.

by djk royal on May 6, 2008 11:05 AM EDT reply reply 0 recs

I've read that...

defense is more important at the start of games than at the end because you’re relievers tend to have higher strike out rates since they don’t have to pace themselves. (See Soria, Ramirez, etc..). Maybe we could start Pena at SS put him in the 9 hole offensively and get 2-3 innings of defense out of him before pinch hitting with Callaspo. Or let him bat once to get about 5 innings of defense. Silly I know, but I’m trying to think of anything that might even marginally help the offense. German at first would help the OBP as well.

by djk royal on May 6, 2008 11:14 AM EDT reply reply 0 recs

I"m not opposed to those ideas.

Don't Stop Believing!

by KC Chris on May 6, 2008 2:38 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

Here's the thing,which nobody is really talking about except Rany...

Who mentioned it in his most recent blog post: You have one of the TOP THREE OBP THREATS ON THIS TEAM, in Esteban German, ROTTING on the bench. This is a guy who we can depend on to put up a .350 OBP. We have gotten him NO AB’s. You have to get this guy going and in the lineup. He is one of the best utility players in baseball and we can not get him AB’s? GMDM and Hillman have ruined his trade value and he is absolutely rotting on the bench. It’s totally inexcusable, and he or Callapso should be starting every day. One of them.

winning records follow good bullpens

by slayor on May 6, 2008 4:57 PM EDT reply reply 0 recs

Did I mention that he actually knows how to work the count and take a walk?

winning records follow good bullpens

by slayor on May 6, 2008 4:57 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

I agree

I’ve definitely lost a little of the love I had for Esteban when I first joined this site at the beginning of last year. But he still hasn’t had a chance to prove that he can’t do the things he did two years ago in a utility role. Without looking it up, I believe he had about a .320 BA and like slayor pointed out, is very good at working a count and drawing walks. Plus, who wouldn’t enjoy a nice bat flip here and there.

by I need more Esteban on May 6, 2008 5:26 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

It is all relative to who German would be replacing

With Grudz and Callaspo around, there is no reason why German should ever, ever, play second base. Sticking German in the outfield for any substantial length of time would make us reminisce about the fielding prowess of Emil Brown. At best, German can give Gordon a day off here and there.

Which leaves us with SS…And German is NOT an everyday SS. Neither is Callaspo. Much as we might like to delude ourselves into thinking otherwise, the only player on the 25-man roster capable of playing good defense at SS on an everyday basis is TPJ. And his defense is really good—almost gold glove-caliber good. A part of my soul dies every time TPJ steps up to bat, but we do NOT have an everyday replacement for him who would provide so substantial an upgrade in offense that the hit in defense would be worth it.

by DarthYoshi on May 6, 2008 6:11 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

Tell me this line up wouldn't be better than what we run out on a daily basis.

CF David Dejesus
DH Esteban German
3B Alex Gordon
LF Jose Guillen
1B Billy Butler
RF Mark Teahen
C John Buck
SS Tony Pena Junior
2B Mark Grudzsldjfieslksdf

Seriously.

Why can’t this happen?

winning records follow good bullpens

by slayor on May 6, 2008 6:43 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

Does trading Gload for German really help much at all?

And Grudz has hit pretty well so far. No idea why he’d go to the 9 spot.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on May 6, 2008 6:49 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

Because German is the exact same bat as Grudz.

And the bottom of our line up as is is an absolute wasteland.

Esteban’s OBP’s have been in 279 AB’s .422, and in 348 AB’s .351. In gload’s last 2 seasons, 320 AB’s and .318, 156 and .354. It’s pretty obvious who is better at getting on base – Esteban is faster also. Esteban had a worse slugging percentage last year, but he’s also right handed. He needs more playing time than he’s getting – Gload already showed last season that he sucks playing full time.

winning records follow good bullpens

by slayor on May 6, 2008 7:03 PM EDT up reply reply 1 recs

Huh?

Because German is the exact same bat as Grudz. And the bottom of our line up is is an absolute wasteland.

So you move Grudz down because he’s hitting relatively well so we can beef up the bottom of the lineup? That doesn’t make any sense. If he’s hitting fairly well, then defiinitely keep him up higher in the lineup.

Gload already showed last season that he sucks playing full time.

Is it at all relevant that Gload hit better than German last year? Overall, it certainly isn’t clear that one player is much better than the other with the bat.

German – .281/.367/.388/.755
Gload – .292/.333/.427/.760

When a RHP is starting, I’d definitely want Gload in there. When a LHP is starting, I’d rather have Butler at 1B and Olivo at DH and that is exactly what has been happening.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on May 6, 2008 7:19 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

Totally disagree...

Olivo is still a bad hitter against left handed pitchers – just not AS bad.

winning records follow good bullpens

by slayor on May 6, 2008 7:27 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

Actually, I take that back. I didn't look at his career splits.

winning records follow good bullpens

by slayor on May 6, 2008 7:30 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

Yeah, he's definitely not a good hitter overall. But he hits lefties quite well.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on May 6, 2008 7:31 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

To be fair though, in Gload vs. German you're using their 162 game averages

Gload has his numbers beefed up by multiple seasons under 200AB’s. German is the better on base threat, any additional power Gload offers is negligible IMO. I’m batting German over Gload as often as possible.

winning records follow good bullpens

by slayor on May 6, 2008 7:32 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

Look at Gload's career splits

He actually hits left-handed pitching substantially better than right-handed pitching.

by DarthYoshi on May 6, 2008 7:55 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

Grudz is a much better

hitter than German. Put German in the 8 or 9 spot and it wouldn’t be bad.

by I need more Esteban on May 6, 2008 7:32 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

I think if you played them the same number of games this year, they'd put up nearly identical lines

.270-.285 BA, .340-.360 OBP, .400-.450 SLG.

Another thing in Gload vs. German, is German fares very favorably against RHP as well as LHP – the splits aren’t nearly as bad. Only different is worse SLG percentage.

winning records follow good bullpens

by slayor on May 6, 2008 7:37 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

I hear ya

But I think there is a reason Grudz has been a starting 2nd baseman for years and German a utility infielder. Defense aside, German got the most AB’s of his career last year (348) and hit only .264. Where as Grudz hit .302 in 453 AB’s. No one would like to see Esteban get more at bats than me but I think it’s easy to see why Grudz plays more.

by I need more Esteban on May 6, 2008 7:56 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

last night

was full of very poor decisions late in the game. nothing that was done helped the royals come out on top. this is hillmans first year as a mlb coach, and he admitted in post game interviews that he made mistakes, especially with soria. hopefully he will be learning from this experience.

over the line smokey

by saintalfonzo on May 6, 2008 6:18 PM EDT reply reply 0 recs