Royals Review: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:



Around SBN: Check out our NFL Scoreboard: scores, schedule and blogs Bar-right-arrows



You wanted something, you got it. Tomko DFA'd, Rosa Called up.

Nate Bukaty on 810 just reported that Brett Tomko has been designated for assignment and Carlos Rosa has been called up to the big club.  For all those wanting changes, here they are.  I just hope Rosa isn't being called up too early.  He will probably get a chance in today's game, as he hasn't pitched since June 7th.

Discuss amongst yourselves, discuss amongst yourselves, discuss amongst yourselves.  Discuss amongst yourselves.  Discuss amongst yourselves.

0 recs | Comment 67 comments

Read Related

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

It seems like a move that people

on this board would make. Kind of like, we are bad right now, I don’t know what to do so lets call up our best prospect in AAA. We’ll see, I guess.

by I need more Esteban on Jun 12, 2008 12:52 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I'd rather DFA Gload

And either recall Butler or call up Musser or Ducky.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jun 12, 2008 12:54 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Me neither

Strikes me as a panic move to be honest. Tomko’s peripherals aren’t terrible, and Rosa seems like he’s being rushed.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jun 12, 2008 12:53 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Rosa

is he going to be put in the pen, now, too? That seems to panic-y. We all want stuff done now, but not brash stuff, especially if it ends up using one of Rosa’s options for a couple of relief appearances.

On the other hand, maybe Nunez’s injury is worse than originally thought. I’m don’t think this would be the right response to that anyway, but it would make it more understandable.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Jun 12, 2008 12:57 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Maybe DMGM is trying to teach us a lesson!

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Jun 12, 2008 12:58 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

+1

althought when I saw Rosa he dominant at AAA. I would have DFA tomko and brought up Ducky also sent down Fulchino and have Musser replace him.

by gordonrules on Jun 12, 2008 12:55 PM EDT   0 recs

Hard to see how DFA'ing a 35 year old with an ERA of 7 as being panicky.

I think they should have called up Duckworth instead of rushing Rosa however.

by djk royal on Jun 12, 2008 12:59 PM EDT   0 recs

good point -- we should separate the Rosa call-up from the Tomko DFA

How much of Tomko’s salary (if any) are the Royals on the hook for?

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Jun 12, 2008 1:02 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

On 810,

they were also curious as to whether Soria could be banged up. He definitely was unavailable again last night, and Hillman said he was “getting better” and Soria would not comment. Hopefully it’s nothing but if it is, we are just screwed…...even more.

by I need more Esteban on Jun 12, 2008 1:01 PM EDT   0 recs

I love this move

Tomko is a disaster whenever he comes into games with a lead. He is a disaster in tied games. He deserved his walking papers. As for Rosa? All I’ve heard is good. Is it too early to call him up? Only time will tell. Can’t judge this move until he pitches.

Never giving up on your team is what makes you a good fan.

by kcisbetterthanstlateverything on Jun 12, 2008 1:05 PM EDT   0 recs

If you can listen

Bukaty is reporting from Kaufman this hour, I’m sure he will talk about the move and Lavebvre, amongst other things.

by I need more Esteban on Jun 12, 2008 1:07 PM EDT   0 recs

nice

I’d love to go today and see what kind of fireworks go off.

by I need more Esteban on Jun 12, 2008 1:15 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Tomko served his purpose (just not very well)

He bought the young pitchers some extra development time, but the HRs allowed did him in. I bet he ends up back with the Dodgers or another NL team with a pitcher friendly park, and he reverts to his old comfortably-below-average-but-above-replacement-level self.

With Rosa’s step forward with his control this year, he might be ready to succeed as a major leage reliever right now, but he would be more valuable as a starter. Going forward, he has more promise as a starter than Davies.

by Gopherballs on Jun 12, 2008 1:23 PM EDT   0 recs

Did this really happen?

That is too early

Billy at worst will be Sean Casey jr.

by kcscoliny on Jun 12, 2008 1:30 PM EDT   0 recs

This is a total Panic move

and I don’t like it at all.

Billy at worst will be Sean Casey jr.

by kcscoliny on Jun 12, 2008 1:31 PM EDT   0 recs

It could be a move

just in case Bannister gets in trouble. It’s his day to start today, so it might be a move to try and save the bullpen. Who knows.

by I need more Esteban on Jun 12, 2008 1:32 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I like this alot

I like bringing young players up earlier, just to give them a taste. I think just getting a few big league innings and going back to the minors is good for development so Rosa himself will kinda know where he stands.

I think Tomko is the right guy to drop, if we keep him, still have veteran depth, but luckily, with his contract (only a half a season now), someone takes the money off our hands.

Gload would be hard to dump like that, no one else will take his contract, we would just be stuck with an expensive AAA player

by ZeppelinDZ on Jun 12, 2008 1:39 PM EDT   0 recs

I don't think I would have done this

I probably wouldn’t have given up on Tomko so quickly, but he has been surprisingly awful. As far as Rosa goes, I probably wouldn’t have called him up so soon, but we don’t really know if it is rushing him. He is 23. It’s not like that age is too young, per se. And he’s shown good stuff and control at both AA and AAA. We’ll see how he handles it.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 12, 2008 1:40 PM EDT   0 recs

Age doesn't bother me

Its the 167 innings above A ball that worry me. Ah well, its probably temporary until Leo gets back.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jun 12, 2008 1:47 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Six minor league seasons..

...including stops at every level and handling batters very well at every level. I’m not saying he’s definitely not being rushed. But I also don’t think we can say that he’s definitely being rushed, particularly since he’s likely not going into the rotation.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 12, 2008 1:54 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah

A sinking fastball/slider combo with okay command is usually enough for a major league reliever. To stick as a starter, he needs to work on his change (and the best place for that is the minors).

by Gopherballs on Jun 12, 2008 2:32 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

According to the scouting reports (as seen at BA, among others) he has a good change right now

It is one of his 3 good pitches.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 12, 2008 2:40 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Looks like BP and BA disagree

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 12, 2008 3:50 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't have it handy

But BA does say that he has a 91-95 fastball which can hit 97 with some movement, as well as a good curveball, good change and a bad slider.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 12, 2008 4:59 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I've seen him on milb.tv...

He breaks off a nasty breaking pitch, I think it is a slider. I’ll watch again sometime and review.

Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.

by doublestix on Jun 12, 2008 10:49 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Tomko's 6.94 ERA

... isn’t too far from the 7+ ERA I predicted for him in March is it?

I agree with you though about this move. It makes me wonder if Dayton has some kind of trade brewing.

Blown Save

by BlownSave on Jun 12, 2008 9:39 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Why I really don't like this move

We get rid of Mrs. Tomko:

Playboy model Julia Schultz

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jun 12, 2008 1:46 PM EDT   0 recs

Get Kris Benson's agent on the phone! Now!

Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!

by cmkeller on Jun 12, 2008 2:38 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Tomko needed to go

but I probably would have called up Duckworth or Musser. I know we don’t need another lefter but Musser could be a 2 inning stopgap type of guy. All that considered this team isn’t going anywhere and giving Rosa a extended look in the bullpen will be alot funner to watch than Tomko’s gopher balls flying out of the K. If Banny struggles tonight I hope they dont let Rosa get his feet wet against Texas’s offense. That could be a rude awakening.

Billy at worst will be Sean Casey jr.

by kcscoliny on Jun 12, 2008 1:57 PM EDT   0 recs

I could be wrong

But my impression was Musser is not your typical LOOGY, he’s more like Mahay. So yea, I think you’re right, he could be a useful 1-2 inning kinda guy.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jun 12, 2008 2:29 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I like it

Tomko was a joke and in my opinion, there was nothing down in AAA except Rosa.
Lets keep the youth movement going.

by BlueBloodRoyal on Jun 12, 2008 2:22 PM EDT   0 recs

absolutely hate the move

would it really hurt to put Rosa in AAA for a good 3 months? No? Any good he’ll do in MLB bullpen, not really. Tomko has hardly been our worst pitcher, we can do a lot worse than him. Now if somebody takes his full salary that’s one thing, but if he have to pay him in AAA it doesn’t make one lick of sense, I somehow doubt Rosa would be much of an upgrade over the real Tomko(not his current ERA) and if he is, do you keep him in the bullpen? The Joba/Soria argument all over again. This is pointless, would rather see Gload DFAed and Butler up

by playingwithfire on Jun 12, 2008 2:48 PM EDT   0 recs

Rosa

It’s hard to call him rushed, but it makes me nervous.

Tomko, sadly, just doesn’t look as if he still has major league stuff/command. Happy trails, Brett.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 12, 2008 3:26 PM EDT   0 recs

Rosa was hardly dominating AA ball last year

4.36 ERA with a 43/70 BB/K ratio. Granted, he did pitch quite well in A ball in 2006, but stats-wise, he had a pretty mediocre season last year and he’s already in the bigs. To me, that sounds like he’s being rushed. I don’t like that part of the move (I’m fine with axing Tomko, it’s almost halfway into the season and he’s proven to be a complete dud—but I’d rather call up Musser or someone else, at least until Nunez is off the DL).

by DarthYoshi on Jun 12, 2008 3:32 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

He finished strong in AA with some great outings and then dominated this year

...performing very well in both AA and AAA. So how he pitched in 2007 means he’s being rushed now? Is it relevant how he has pitched in 2008, and that he’s had 6 minor league seasons and had stops at every level?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 12, 2008 3:52 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

The guy has had a whopping five starts in AAA

...totaling 25 innings pitched. That is barely enough of a sample size to make any conclusive determinations. I’m honestly stunned that you of all people are defending this move, because “too small of a sample size” is usually your mantra.

If we followed your logic of “hey, it’s fine that he was just okay last year because he’s dominated this year,” then we’d also see promotions for Kila Kaaihue, Jason Smith, and Mitch Maier. C’mon. How Rosa has pitched in 2008 is relevant, but it would be significantly more so once he had several more starts under his belt.

by DarthYoshi on Jun 12, 2008 4:08 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Evaluating minor leaguers

First, you can’t just look at stats. You have to have a generous mix of both stats and scouting in your analysis. So “sample size” is crucial if you are hanging your hat primarily on stats. The reason he was called up was as much about 3 good pitches and plus control as it was about any particular stats. And his stuff and control have been consistently good.

If we followed your logic of "hey, it’s fine that he was just okay last year because he’s dominated this year," then we’d also see promotions for Kila Kaaihue, Jason Smith, and Mitch Maier.

Uh, no. We saw improvement throughout Rosa’s 2007 season. Rosa is not too old for his level like Kila. Rosa has had other good minor league performances, unlike Kila. Rosa has plus skills (stuff and control), unlike Kila. Rosa is a genuine prospect, not a poor journeyman like Smith. Rosa has had a great season, unlike Maier whose season is merely ok. I could list several more important distinctions between Rosa and those other players, but I’ll leave it at these most obvious and important points.

As I said above, this could be rushing Rosa and I probably wouldn’t have called him up yet. But they think he’s ready. And for all we know, he might be. This isn’t analogous to Nunez or Burgos’s call ups. They were younger, with much less minor league experience. We’ll see how he reacts to it. If he implodes, then I’ll agree that he was rushed. We certainly don’t know yet. His age and experience certainly not mean that he has necessarily been rushed.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 12, 2008 4:19 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Rosa's experience

He has a grand total of 167 innings pitched above A ball, only 65 of which were this year (representing less than 40% of his AA/AAA experience). I’m not looking simply at stats-and granted, his peripherals (especially his BB/9 rate) have improved this year, but I’d rather see them keep improving before he gets the call-up. I just happen to think that he isn’t too far removed from a lot of the struggles he had in the beginning and middle parts of last year in terms of experience, and frankly, there isn’t an imperative reason to call him specifically up-Nunez is off the DL soon, and Musser has been pitching well, so we have a couple candidates to replace Tomko in the bullpen. Given his lack of AAA experience, I just don’t see why calling Rosa up so soon could be so rewarding as to take him out of his regular six-ish innings of work every five days. I’d rather Rosa get innings than ride the pine at the end of our bullpen’s bench.

Now, if this is a temporary move (ie, Rosa is only here until Nunez is off the DL), then that is more understandable. But if Rosa is here to stay for any significant length of time, then, like I said before, based on his post-A ball experience, it seems like he is being rushed somewhat.

Re: Kaaihue et al—it was simply a rebuttal to your argument of “aren’t his 2008 stats relevant?” My point was, yeah, they are, but you have to take them with a grain of salt given at this point in time. Rosa has way more upside than the three guys I named, but that doesn’t necessarily justify calling him up so soon.

by DarthYoshi on Jun 12, 2008 4:37 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

How much experience does a really good pitching prospect need?

He’s certainly not the only good pitching prospect who has had 167 innings above A-ball. In fact, many get less than that before they make it to the majors. This guy is an advanced prospect with plus stuff and plus control. Good pitching prospects are supposed to come into their own at 23 or 24 (or perhaps I should say by 23 or 24).

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 12, 2008 5:01 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Simply because others have done it

Doesnt justify us doing it.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jun 12, 2008 5:07 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

That's certainly true

I’m just saying that 6 years in the majors with stops at every level of the minors and age 23 doesn’t really fit the profile of a “rushed” prospect. If it is, then even forward thinking, sabermetric, analytical, “to hell with the conventional wisdom, we’re going to do things the right way!” organizations rushed Clay Buckholz, Jon Lester, Joe Blanton, Rich Harden and Huston Street (to name but a few). Each of those pitchers was called up to the majors as young or younger than Rosa with less minor league experience. Think those organizations know what they’re doing? Think they are committed to doing things the same wrong way that they’ve always been done?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 12, 2008 5:16 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Those are some good examples

But they only serve as anecdotal evidence. I’m sure we could come up with several contrary examples. I think you’re focusing too much on the “six years in the minors”. That’s not the issue. The issue is the lack of experience at upper levels. There is a vast gulf between A ball and AAA as far as talent, and a big jump between AAA and MLB. Rosa has yet to demonstrate he can repeat mastery of the AAA level. Yet the Royals feel fit to throw him to MLB batters. I think that is a mistake.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jun 12, 2008 5:19 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

It is not at all uncommon for good pitching prospects to spend little time at AA or AAA

I could list many more in addition to the ones I listed above (and from “new thinking” organizations like the A’s, Bosox and Blue Jays). So this is not an uncommon move, nor is this a mistake that only stupid old traditional organizations make. Was it a mistake for the Sox and A’s to rush the players I listed?

BTW, Rosa has what amounts to a full season of AA under his belt over two seasons. 25 AA starts constitutes a full season. So this is Rosa’s experience:

Rookie – 2+ seasons
Low-A – 1 1/3 seasons
High-A – 1 season
AA – 1 season
AAA – 20% of a season

And now called up at age 23. This could be rushing him, but I don’t know. Looks like he’s spent a good deal of time at every level except AAA. And I don’t know that every or even most very good pitching prospects need a full season of AAA.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 12, 2008 5:33 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

"6 years in the minors"

That is taking quite a bit of dramatic license. Rosa pitched a whopping 32 innings during his first year of rookie ball, followed by 69 innings and 46 innings the next two years. Rosa pitched more minor-league innings in 2006 alone than he did in the years 2002-2004 combined. I know rookie leagues have shortened seasons, but if you’re trying to pass those off as full years in the minors, I’m going to call shenanigans.

by DarthYoshi on Jun 12, 2008 5:50 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Thank god he didn't pitch 150 innings per season

Rookie league seasons are short with very strict limits on pitch counts and innings pitched. His rookie league seasons were pretty normal ones.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 12, 2008 6:02 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

my take

First of all, I’m glad to see the new regime demonstrate an understanding of “sunk costs”. This is in stark contrast to the past, when underperformers were allowed to continue hurting the team because of their salaries (see Scott Elarton)

Secondly, I don’t really think they are rushing Rosa anymore than they rushed Gordon or Butler. Rosa was completely dominate at AA, and after only one bad start at AAA, he has been pretty damn good there as well. (His last appearance was 4 perfect innings – had to leave the game after a hour and a half rain delay). On top of that, he is 23, not 19 or 20 or something.

Put me down for pleasantly surprised with this move. This has turned into more of a developmental year sooner than any of us thought it would, so let’s get on with the evaluations…

by loyal2sdad on Jun 12, 2008 3:29 PM EDT   0 recs

Sunk costs

The next step is to DFA Ross Gload and the $2.5 million or so owed him.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jun 12, 2008 3:51 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Who would have thought that Leo Nunez would be such a key component

to the Royals bullpen. His absence in the 8th inning has caused everyone’s role to change. Nunez in the 8th and Ramirez/Mahay/ Yabuta/Gobble in the 7th or 6th then long relief fodder like Peralta earlier in the game. Since Nunez has been out, no one has been able to pin down a solid role.

My thoughts on Rosa are similar to yours, Loyal2sdad. Rosa was at AA almost all of 2007, he is 23 or 24, and he has been in KC’s spring training for 2 years. Plugging him into a long relief role and letting him mop up 1-3 innings will help him out. Yeah, he’ll have rough games but he can learn from them unlike veterans like Tomko. Feel the same way about Musser – let him come up and get a chance.

Time to see how well GMDM can work the trade routes for KC’s moveable parts like Grudz, bullpen types, Gload or German. Holding Grudz just allows him more time to get hurt like Reggie Sanders.

by daveyork on Jun 12, 2008 3:34 PM EDT   0 recs

We saw similar bullpen issues last year

when Dotel first went on the DL—we tried Riske as a closer, which was a disaster, before settling on Soria, but even then, the bullpen turned out a lot of its best work when Dotel got back and everyone settled into semi-permanent roles (until Dotel got traded).

I personally would rather see Rosa consistently getting innings, even if it is at the AAA level. I’ve always thought a September call-up for him was a distinct possibility this year, but calling him up in June after less than two months at AAA ball is too soon. Pitchers usually struggle to adjust to a new level, and we’ve just had Rosa jump two levels in as many months.

by DarthYoshi on Jun 12, 2008 3:38 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Finally, Tomahawk is gone.

That was the most worthless pick up that GMDM made this season. He should have been gone when they moved him out of the rotation. I am anxious to see what Rosa can do. He is has looked good at every stop since ST so give him a shot. He is 24 and probably starting in the bullpen is a good thing right now. I would like to see Musser brought up too. Why isn’t Gload on the DL for a hangnail or something. Give Maier a shot it worked Aviles. The way this team is playing now why not give some of the young guys a shot.

Be loyal, Be Brave, Be Free.

by hardyguy on Jun 12, 2008 4:07 PM EDT   0 recs

One thing about bringing up younger guys like Aviles, Rosa, and Maier

is the fans can root for kids who have potential and are looking for a chance to prove themselves in the majors. I would think they’ll play with enthusiasm and energy. Veteran guys like Tomko and Gload just don’t say promise for the future. Personally, I’d rather see the young guys than Grudz. Having the vets aren’t helping in the wins dept. in 2008.

by daveyork on Jun 12, 2008 4:26 PM EDT   0 recs

But what about

the grit department. We all know rookies don’t have any grit.

by Stook on Jun 12, 2008 7:27 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I'd take less grit and more wins at this stage of the season.

Contenders need gritty veterans to come off the bench and show their leadership. When they play for teams like KC, it just makes for a long summer for everyone including the fans.

by daveyork on Jun 12, 2008 11:47 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

This is a good move

Tomko is done. While the readiness of Rosa could be debated, we really have little to lose here. If he does poorly, we send him back down to regain some confidence. If he does well, we have a nice bonus. We all know what Duckworth brings – no need to try him out.

by Dubya on Jun 13, 2008 1:19 AM EDT   0 recs

+1 for forward-thinking re: stats.

SmartBall™

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Jun 13, 2008 11:17 AM EDT   0 recs

This was supposed to be under juano's "brilliant gamble" comment

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Jun 13, 2008 11:17 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog about Kansas City Royals.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Fredo-corleone_pictureboxart_160w_small
Projecting the Royals' 2009 Pitching With Bill James (Seriously, It's Just a Title)
Royalsretro_small
The Best Free Agent Signings in Royals History
Small
Value Over Replacement Defender
Nyroyal3a_small
Royals 2009 Payroll (including projections)

Recent FanPosts

Nyroyal3a_small
Royals Confidence Index - December
Small
One move that will improve the Royals
Small
Projected wins?
Clemente_small
OK SO MAYBE JACOBS AT 3B WAS A JOKE, BUT KC WINNING THE CENTRAL IS NOT