Hardball Times article on Greinke
Would anybody actually consider trading Greinke away for some minor league talent?
over 2 years ago
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Very good article
I wouldn’t trade Zack. He’s one to build around.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
Best player we have, not named
Soria.
No way you trade a guy like that at age 24, with 3 years of service remaining under team control.
I’d prefer signing him to a 6 or 7 year deal, and watch him pitch game one of the WS some year wearing Royals blue instead of some other uniform.
Great writeup
If GMDM can lock up Greinke for the next 4-5 years, I’d be willing to throw a parade for the guy.
Me too
even if his girlfriend does sorta look like a drag queen
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by Matt Klaassen on Jun 24, 2008 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions
A bit harsh?
Maybe? Not every woman can be Pam. You’ll just have to come to terms with that.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
It was a bad pic of her
Other pics on her website were sheer hotness.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
K
Yeah, I just wanted to say it under that picture. I was worried Zack was going to kill me, but it had to be said. That picture was really bad for her face.
And Adam’s Apple.
Sorry Zack! You’re still the (Space)Man! Way to use your jock wiles and money to defeat the odds and land a toned and tanned princess!
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by Matt Klaassen on Jun 24, 2008 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Some guys at Royals Corner seriously think it would be great if we did this trade:
Greinke
Grudz
Blake Johnson
to Milwaukee for
Laporta
Gamel
An ace, plus a decent 2B rental, plus a decent pitching prospect for two not yet ready for MLB prospects.
Sounds nuts to me. Sounds like some people overvalue prospects and don’t understand that no one is “can’t miss.”
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
Two words
Rowdy Hardy
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by Matt Klaassen on Jun 24, 2008 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Milwaukee has a Rowdy Hardy too?
If so, I’d do the deal if the Brewers build the trade around him.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
That is one of the more sane trade proposals from Royals Corner
Much more sensible than their usual “Jimmy Gobble for Alex Rodriguez” nonsense.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
???
You don’t actually think anyone is actually being serious with that, do you?
Founder of the Rowdy Hardy Fan Club
I was exaggerating
But there have been some pretty ridiculous trade proposals on that site.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jun 25, 2008 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Um...
wow. That’s one hell of a trade for Milwaukee.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
But those are great prospects!
They are guaranteed All-Stars.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
Well, you have to help out your weaker, less affluent brethren.
After all, Milwaukee’s gone over FIFTY years without winning a championship.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
True Story:
I decide who I’m going to root for, in general, based on how long they’ve suffered. In 2004, I was just as big a Red Sox fan as NHZ.
Until a few years ago, I had three ironclad exceptions, and a couple of soft ones (which, because they were Montreal and Houston, were irrelevant anyway).
1. Obviously, I’d rather the Royals win than even some other team that’s suffered longer.
2. The Yankees could go 40 years without a title, and I’d still root for the other team even if they were going for a seven-peat.
3. Same for the Brewers. But then Bud finally sold off his little conflict of interest, so now I’m okay with them again.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
Selig sure didn't help them much
And yes, Red Sox fans sure haven’t suffered much lately.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
this has to get you excited
If you asked me which pitcher will be the most successful over the next seven years I would take Zach Greinke.
Makes we scratch my head a bit
He’d really take Greinke over King Felix? Lincecum? Kazmir?
Founder of the Rowdy Hardy Fan Club
Davis? Clippard? Hardy?
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by Matt Klaassen on Jun 25, 2008 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Horacio Ramirez?
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jun 25, 2008 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes
One can certainly make a case for Greinke being better than each of the above. As well as some other chinks in their armor, both Felix and Kazmir have had some injury issues and Lincecum is still not yet entirely proven. He looks great, but will it last? And will he be able to stay healthy with that small body and power delivery? I don’t think anyone would be surprised to hear that his labrum suddenly got shredded.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
A case could be made
but it’d be an incredibly weak one.
Yes, Felix and Kazmir have had slight injury concerns, but Greinke has had mental concerns. Furthermore, we are talking about a guy who has still not put together a full season of above-average MLB pitching. 04 was great, 05 was awful, 06 was nonexistant, 07 was great as a reliever and poor as a starter.
In 08 he has done pretty damn well as a starter, but his numbers are still below what Felix, Lincecum, and Kazmir are doing. Don’t get me wrong, I’d do backflips if we lock this kid up; in fact, it should be at the top of DM’s priority list. But I’m not ready to claim he will be the best young pitcher over the next ten years quite yet.
Founder of the Rowdy Hardy Fan Club
by eazyb81 on Jun 25, 2008 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Greinke has no problems with mental concerns
now that he’s found the right dosage.
And Greinke isn’t that far behind Hernandez this year, and is ahead of Kazmir in VORP because he’s stayed healthy and productive all year.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/sortable/index.php?cid=204030
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
Not entirely true.
The body has a tendency to adjust itself, and the right dosage (or even medication) may not be the right one next year.
So it’s not accurate to say that there are no mental concerns, although you can say that his issues are being appropriately managed in a way that one’s physical injury risk cannot be.
Unless, of course, you’re Tom Cruise, in which case what’s being done to Zack is a travesty, allowing the enthetans to take control of his being.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
Okay,
perhaps saying there’s no problem is a bit much, but they’re generally in the past now and it’s silly to assume that Greinke’s going to suddenly have the problems he did in 2006 again.
My point about the VORP of the pitchers mentioned still stands.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
What about prior years?
I don’t think 1/2 season of baseball this season is enough to leap Greinke past Kazmir and Felix, and I’d guess that the large majority of non-Royals fans would agree.
Kazmir had an insane season last year and had 200+ IP. He’s the same age as Greinke, has 107 career MLB starts, and sports a 128 ERA+. Greinke has a ridiculous ceiling, but so does Kazmir, and today I couldn’t justifiably put Greinke ahead of him.
Founder of the Rowdy Hardy Fan Club
"the large majority of non-Royals fans would agree"
Oh I’m sure that’s the case. The large majority of non-Royals fans have never heard of Greinke, or Gordon or 90% of Royals players. the large majority of baseball fans are ill-informed people who just like rooting for their team. The real question is if you asked 100 intelligent, knowledgeable baseball analysts (and I’m not talking about ESPN’s “analysts”) who they think will be better over the next 7-10 years out of Greinke, Hernandez, Kazmir and Lincecum (taking into account performance, injury and everything), I wonder who would be the plurality winner. I don’t think any one pitcher would run away with it. And that’s the point.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
Depression and social anxiety disorder are often fairly easily treatable
Those are very common conditions which are very treatable through meds and therapy. The fact that he’s had no problem in two years should tell us that there is a very low likelihood of this “injury” happening again. The chance is never zero, but it is very, very low.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
No, there is not a very low likelihood.
You’re just going to have to trust me on this. The body’s chemistry can alter quickly enough that a serious chemical issue can set in before you even realize you need an adjustment to your medication. Sometimes, you can even exacerbate the problem by continuing to take the meds which have thus far managed your issue.
My point, however, since apparently y’all stopped reading before getting to the “being appropriately managed in a way that one’s physical injury risk cannot be” part of the comment, is that regular maintenance and consultation does serve to substantially mitigate the risk, whereas you can go visit your orthopaedist every day and it won’t stop you from suddenly blowing out your labrum tomorrow.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
I guess my "data" is merely anecdotal
...but I’ve known many people who suffered from dysfunctional depression who had their condition treated through therapy and meds and didn’t suffer a significant problem at any point thereafter. And I would think that the fact that he hasn’t had a problem which affected his pitching over the last two years is strong evidence that the problem should remain under control for the forseeable future.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
I think you again stopped reading mid-comment.
Yes, the problem should remain under control, because one presumes he is continuing to receive care. But even then, there is a chance of something going wrong. It is not a problem which is forever behind him simply because he’s gotten treatment.
I know a few people, including a family member, who routinely have to adjust dosages or switch medications entirely from time to time because they just aren’t working anymore.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
I just originally put it badly,
my intent was to say basically the same thing you’ve said…which is that it can be managed more effectively than a physical injury.
None of us, of course, know very much about Greinke individual case and it’s rather obvious that there could be complications. Still, when I say there’s little concern, I mean there’s little concern of a relapse. Not little concern since the condition has magically gone away or somethign ridiculous like that.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
Yes, one of the reasons that his condition(s) shouldn't be a problem for his baseball playing in the future...
...is because he can and will have his dosages adjusted as necessary.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
This is me, repeatedly bashing my head into the desk.
A chemical imbalance, even while under treatment, can slide out of whack before it’s actually observed. You can appear fine, yet you’re already in trouble.. By the time it becomes apparent there’s a problem, you’re already spiralling out of whack, and it can take some time to re-adjust medication or dosage.
You can’t just make these adjustments on the fly. In fact, if Zack’s doctor decided to change his prescription because Zack seemed a little off one day, I’d recommend a new doctor. You have to be sure that the mood and/or behavior alteration is a real problem because if you do alter the medication and it WAS just a bad day or two, you could make things even worse. Even if Zack’s seeing a shrink every DAY, there’s still a risk that he can suffer an alteration which will in fact affect his performance before the doctor is able to determine that it is in fact something which calls for an adjustment, and then it’s going to take some time after that before it is corrected.
And yes, since I have a close relationship with this sort of thing, the naivete as to how it must obviously be all under control now really bothers me. Is it likely that Zack will suffer a catastrophic relapse? Not terribly. Is it so unlikely that we may as well just write it off as an irrelevant factor? Hell no.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
We'll agree to disagree as to the likelihood of catastrophic relapse
:)
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
I don't think it is a weak case at all
Felix’s injury concerns haven’t been slight at all. And Greinke’s “mental concerns” are in the past. For two years now he’s been on medication which effectively deals with his issues and there had no problems. There’s a reason lots of scouts, front offices and statistical analysts love Greinke. The THT guy who wrote this article isn’t alone in thinking that Greinke might be better than Felix, Kazmir and Lincecum. I’m not saying that he definitely will be the best young pitcher over the next ten years. But he’s on the short list.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
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