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Butler in the Ten Pack

Amen, KG. Could we call the guy up already?

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For those who think I agree with everything Dayton does

I didn’t really mind sending Butler down for a little while. But keeping him down there this long is just stupid. He’s got nothing left to learn or work on there. Whatever confidence benefit he could get there has been achieved. And we’ve got the worst 1B in MLB making a huge hole in the lineup. The KC Royals need Butler desperately and his development isn’t being helped by further minor league time. He should have been called up weeks ago. This is GM malpractice. I’m considering suing.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 24, 2008 5:39 PM EDT   0 recs

While I'd hold of on suing,

I agree there’s been little point in leaving Butler down in Omaha. I really wasn’t all that thrilled with sending him down in the first place, but I think that point’s quite moot….really the issue now that there’s no reason that Billy Butler should be in AAA.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 24, 2008 5:42 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

The rumor on talk radio...

is that butler was sent down more for attitude issues than anything. Soren Petro says sources from the organization stated they were unhappy with his approach and he was the “baby” Guillen was referring too. Take it with a grain of salt but Soren is usually pretty solid with his reporting. This may be more of a message now than anything.

by djk royal on Jun 24, 2008 5:46 PM EDT   0 recs

If it's a message

to keep one of our best young hitters in the minors for no other reason than some unconfirmed attitude problems and Jome Run Jose’s ridiculous rant, then that is the kind of “old school,” bush league crap that this organization doesn’t need. The kid hits. Call him up.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 24, 2008 5:52 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Hang on time out, pardner

You’re conflating the organization’s observation of Butler with Guillen’s rant. The timing does make it look suspect, but if Butler was having an attitude problem, I’m pretty damn sure that management was aware of it before Jose shot his mouth off, if you know what I mean.

This whole “Guillen got Butler sent down” meme is bad juju.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jun 24, 2008 6:41 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Hang on time out, pardner

to you as well. I wasn’t saying Guillen got Butler sent down. I was responding to this bit of djk royal’s post:

Soren Petro says sources from the organization stated they were unhappy with his approach and he was the "baby" Guillen was referring too.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 24, 2008 6:43 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

So, according to that, the problem wasn't with his attitude or anything like that, but with his approach

Is it bad to send him down to Omaha to work on his hitting approach?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 24, 2008 6:44 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Ugh.

Obviously not. Did you notice the last part of that block quote?

and he was the “baby” Guillen was referring too.

That seemed to suggest that Soren thought the attitude might have something to do with it, and, by extension, Guillen calling out the babies. I was arguing against these having any effect on the organization decision. Also, there seem to some people on this blog that place some kind of weight in Guillen’s rant having helped. I disagree with them.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 24, 2008 6:48 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Clearly Soren Petro is conflating the Royals optioning of Butler with Guillen's rant

But unless he has some source in the Royals organization, he’s just a radio talkshow host making guesses. I disagree with the thought that Guillen’s rants help anything. I also disagree with the idea that Guillen’s rants lead Moore to make roster moves. Whether one likes Moore or not, he’s not idiot enough to make moves based on Guillen’s emotional outbursts.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 24, 2008 6:53 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Agreed

Again, I seem to be not making my points clearly enough the first time around. That’s obviously my fault. I’ve just really had it with the inferences that Guillen busting the team’s balls in the past or the future helps at all. I also very much doubt that any more of a “message” needs to be sent to Butler.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 24, 2008 6:55 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

You're forgetting Bull Durham

They are just kids. They need a daddy figure like Guillen to yell at them.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 24, 2008 6:57 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Good movie

So’s The Natural, though.

I’d much rather have Roy Hobbs’s production than any inspirational Bull Durham daddy figure.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 24, 2008 6:58 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

WRONG

They need Jimmy Dugan.

“THERE’S NO CRYING IN BASEBALL, YOU (blank) (blank) (blank) BABIES!”

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jun 24, 2008 7:02 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

We need

All The Way May to hit clean-up.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 24, 2008 7:03 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

But but but YOU said
If it’s a message to keep one of our best young hitters in the minors for no other reason than some unconfirmed attitude problems and Jome Run Jose’s ridiculous rant, then that is the kind of "old school," bush league crap that this organization doesn’t need.

I read that as you thinking it’s entirely possible, and if so then you’re angry. Did you, instead, mean “this organization isn’t that stupid, get real”?

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jun 24, 2008 7:00 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes, the latter.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 24, 2008 7:01 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

And my anger has to do with

this entire blog having too many babies who don’t know how to comment.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 24, 2008 7:01 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Then, good sir,

you’ve my apologies for assuming you were stoopid, although you’re still a poopyhead. So there.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jun 24, 2008 7:03 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

No worries

I am a poopyhead, where poopyhead = someone who apparently sucks as snarkiness today.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 24, 2008 7:04 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

The thing about snarkiness

is it’s hard to interpret through reading….it’s much better suited by hearing…Idea, Royals Review Audio/Video section!.........hmmmm maybe not, that could get intense when TPJ bats.

by I need more Esteban on Jun 24, 2008 7:06 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Maybe we should do podcasts

or something. That why everyone can make fun of our voices in the same way we haze Rany for his hair.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 24, 2008 7:07 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Even if it is a message that needed to be sent

...the message has been sent. His wrist has been slapped, now it is time to call him back up.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 24, 2008 5:54 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

But Jose might get mad!

The Royals don’t want to lose him in the middle of this totally sustainable hot streak!

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Jun 24, 2008 5:55 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Totally sustainable

He really is scaring me with this whole “I don’t need walks to OPs 1.000!!!” thing he’s got going.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 24, 2008 5:57 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

So far, he's doing what jonfmorse talks about for Aviles

Pitchers are throwing him strikes and he’s hitting them. I’d much rather he hit those strikes than take them. I like walks, but I like extra base hits more.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 24, 2008 6:08 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

yeah

I don’t understand the worry about his OBP as long as his SLG continues to climb higher and higher.

by I need more Esteban on Jun 24, 2008 6:10 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

No kidding.

And I frigging hate XBH. I’m merely pointing out Guillen’s walk rate is a concern.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 24, 2008 6:11 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I know, and I wasn't disagreeing with you

And I know you recognize the value of XBH. But one could argue that he’s taking balls and swinging at strikes. And, therefore, it is possible that if pitchers start pitching around him, he’ll take those balls and start drawing more walks. I don’t know if that is what will happen, but it is possible.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 24, 2008 6:16 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Agreed, it's possible

it’s just a concern I have in the back of my mind right now as I watch Guillen destroy pitcher after pitcher. It’s neat to have him so locked in, and of course everyone would rather have a HR than a BB, it’s just that with his history of being a rather impatient hitter I’m hoping that this walk rate so far is a product of his odd year and not a sign of his plate discipline declining. Either way, if he keeps hitting the way he has…it won’t matter much this year.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 24, 2008 6:18 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

The good news is that plate discipline usually doesn't decline much with age

And certainly not at his age.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 24, 2008 6:22 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Eh,

depends on the type of player. It’s not that uncommon for plate discipline to recede with age when it comes to non-elite players.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 24, 2008 6:25 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Clearly Guillen read your posts yesterday

2 walks. He’s almost certainly going to turn into a walks machine now.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 25, 2008 2:51 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

My only point with the "totally sustainable" thing

(aside from the obvious joke, which was the main point) was that Guillen is historically streaky, as low BB rate hitters usually are. So he’ll downstreak eventually, probably not as bad as April, and then he’ll upstreak some more later, and so no. RIght now he has his highest OPS since the 2004 season (caveat: I know OPS sux compared to BA, but bear with my little brain). It will be interesting to see where he ends up. His LD% is higher than it has been (good sign), and his G/B& is lower (another good sign). His walk rate is bad even for him right now. Curious. I have no idea whether this will turn out to be his best year since 2003 or whatever.

It’s a great streak now, and he’s “tuned in,” but eventually the pitchers are going to figure that out, and he’ll have to adjust enough to keep his value up (by taking pitches he can’t drive) when they aren’t giving him his pitches. I really have no idea what will happen. I’ll go out on a limb and say that he won’t keep up the > 1.000 OPS pace of the last few weeks, though.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Jun 24, 2008 6:26 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

+1

Well said.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 24, 2008 6:30 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Now, this is an interesting topic

especially since I have been invoked.

The thing with Aviles is that we don’t know, from eyeballing him, whether he’s prone to impatience or over-agressiveness. His stats do indicate he’s not (and probably never will be) a walkin’ machine, but it’s not like he draws 4 unintentional passes a season either.

Guillen, on the other hand… we know he’s hacktastic. He truly is. He doesn’t start drawing more walks when he’s not tearing the cover off the ball. So he IS going to regress, and sharply, at some point. But, as our friend mano cornuta notes, he’ll bounce back. That’s just who Guillen is.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jun 24, 2008 6:51 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Right,

I was suggesting the possibility of his plate discipline getting even worse long term based on his abysmal walk rate this year.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 24, 2008 6:52 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm a doofus

I forgot to make the point I had intended to make at the end of that comment. Here you go:

The problem, if anything, is that having been so locked in that he’d probably have been able to hit every pitcher in history over the last six weeks, when he DOES go cold, he’s still going to be swinging at everything, so it will in effect cause his plate discipline to look even worse.

I think what happens to him is that after it’s obvious to everyone on the planet that he’s turned into a .200 hitter, THEN he realizes he really has gone cold, and starts to make adjustments. His plate discipline improves again, until he starts to lock in again, and the wheel of life spins on.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jun 24, 2008 6:58 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

That would be the positive

outlook, yes. Here’s hoping that’s what happens when he cools off.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 24, 2008 6:59 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

yeah

I think that is really rediculous radio talk, ya know the kind that they start so everyone will call in.

by I need more Esteban on Jun 24, 2008 6:09 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't either

It does bug me that he is getting “credit” for being a leader for saying stuff that, if posted by someone here, would get totally ripped.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Jun 24, 2008 6:27 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

But that's doesn't mean anything about Jose being a good hitter

He is, and has been carrying the offense (well, him and Avilanche)

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Jun 24, 2008 6:28 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

(and Teahen, lately)

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jun 24, 2008 6:51 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

+1

Too bad certain mediocre British authors couldn’t figure out how to “lately” certain Teahen-esque redheaded fan favorites.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Jun 24, 2008 10:40 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah, Guillen is no leader

He’s a good player who will occasionally spout off about things because he’s an A-hole. He’s not a leader, he’s a loose cannon.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 24, 2008 6:29 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah

I wasn’t that upset about the move, orginally, because it just seemed like Butler was really struggling and it gave Aviles a shot. But now it seems like it’s definitely time for him to be back up. The way our offense has been rolling it seems like the perfect time to put him back in the lineup.

by I need more Esteban on Jun 24, 2008 5:47 PM EDT   0 recs

who does he replace?

again.. basically no one on the roster has options left… we’ll have to DFA a position player basically

by royalsreview on Jun 24, 2008 5:52 PM EDT   0 recs

Ross Gload comes to mind

in fact, he kind of jumps into my mind instantly.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 24, 2008 5:53 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Or, actually,

Pena or German. Gload makes the most sense, the way I see it.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 24, 2008 5:55 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

By far the most sense

I still think German can be useful. But you know the old saying: “Something’s only useful when it is actually used.” Or something.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Jun 24, 2008 5:55 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Me too

I’d much prefer Gload. I think Pena and German can still help a major league team.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 24, 2008 5:57 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

pena may have optons left

german would need to be DFAed

by royalsreview on Jun 24, 2008 5:59 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I'd still DFA Gload

but I, obviously, am not a GM. Pena’s option might make more sense to the people in charge if he still has one.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 24, 2008 6:01 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Pena has no options left. Nor does German or Callaspo.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 24, 2008 6:09 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

if callaspo gets DFA'd somehow

i’ll flip out

This space intentionally left blank.

by marbotty on Jun 24, 2008 6:29 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Don't worry. It won't happen.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 24, 2008 6:29 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Only players with options

are Teabag, Gordon and Aviles. None of those 3 will get optioned the Only way Butler probably gets called up is if someone gets let go. Only 3 could possibly fit that bill
Gload
Pena
German

Billy at worst will be Sean Casey jr.

by kcscoliny on Jun 24, 2008 6:38 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

i wasn't worried until you put his name out there

but, yeah, it’ll almost certainly be Gload or German or Fulchino

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by marbotty on Jun 24, 2008 6:39 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Fulchino was sent down yesterday or the day before

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 24, 2008 6:41 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

then the odds of him being sent down

are somewhat lower

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by marbotty on Jun 25, 2008 9:15 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

If Gordon gets DFA'ed, someone's ass is gonna get kicked!!111

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Jun 24, 2008 6:35 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Greinke's on the bubble though

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 24, 2008 6:38 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Ross is who it should be

There’s no downside to DFAing him. Either someone takes is salary or he gets sent to minors and if he refuses the assignment, the contract is voided (because he has fewer than 5 years of service time, h/t to G).

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 24, 2008 5:55 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

he probably would take the assignment

just for that reason. I would probably ship Pena or German IF Hillman thinks Callaspo can play SS. No matter who gets optioned a move needs to be made as much of it was a message for attitude he has to have proven he got the message by not sulking during a 16 game road trip. If the move was due to attitude that is a pretty tough punishment to keep him on that entire road trip.

Billy at worst will be Sean Casey jr.

by kcscoliny on Jun 24, 2008 6:01 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Why not German?

Does German have some history of truly great hitting I haven’t heard about. From my recollection, he’s not that much better of an “historical” bat than Gload, and certainly he’s not performing better than Gload this year. Couple that with the lacking leather he’s always had and I can’t see any reason to keep him.

In the one-eyed man in a world of blind men schtick, Gload and Pena have one eye and German is blind.

by Big Guy on Jun 24, 2008 6:04 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

What the hell is Gload's eye?

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 24, 2008 6:05 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

German

was really great in a utility role 2 years ago. He hit .326 with a OBP of .422. At the beginning of the next season I joined RR and created this s/n…sadly, he has regressed since then, proving that I have the power to jinx.

by I need more Esteban on Jun 24, 2008 6:08 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

He was still good last year,

he just had a predictable drop in BA. You should never change your screenname…ever.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 24, 2008 6:10 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah, even with the BA drop, he still had a good OBP

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 24, 2008 6:11 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Esteban forever

I still wish he’d get a hit this year, though…

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 24, 2008 6:13 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Because German is better than Gload

German has some value. Gload has next to none. Have you seen German’s stats with the Royals. There’s more to him that what he hasn’t done this season.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 24, 2008 6:10 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

and his Bat Flip is worth

much more than any stat can show you!

by I need more Esteban on Jun 24, 2008 6:13 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs