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A Word on Alex Gordon's Struggles

I have much longer post in the works that centers around our catching situation and a few of our more questioable roster decisions, but this topic has been burning a hole in my head for  a little while now. I'm not going to call specific people out or anything--though maybe I should if everyone would improve the way Jome Run Jose did after I dissed his plate discipline--but I've seen numerous comments in game threads and fanposts that go something like "over/under for pitches Gordon sees in his AB: 1" or "of course Gordon goes after the first pitch" or "Gordon kills another rally." I'm not going to tell people to take a different attitude towards Gordon, because that would be prententious of me, but I feel as if overall the negativity towards A-Gord is a bit misdirected. Not wishing to pick on Will, let's look at part of what he wrote on Alex in his nicely done "Auto-Interview II" piece, as I feel as if i should expand a bit on the subject of what kind of hitter Alex has shown himself to be in the majors thus far.

In over 800 big league PAs he's a .253/.322/.408 hitter. He is 24 years old, so he's right on the hinge between still being young and being in his prime. Look at his comparables on his baseball-reference page and tell me how I should feel. Whatever it is that we expected he'd be... we may have to give up those dreams. Fortunately, this is an experience that most of us should be familiar with.

Will's right, of course, in that Gordon has been disappointing relative to what was expected. In hindsight it's easy to say that perhaps Gordon would be better off right now if he had done been learning in AAA rather than being sent right up to the majors, despite the consensus at the time that Alex had nothing left to prove in the minors. The issue that I feel the need to expand on, as this was already brought up in the last couple game threads, is that saying Gordon is a number/number/number hitter for his very short career in the bigs or this season doesn't tell the whole story. Just because it now appears that Alex isn't going to be a superstar doesn't mean we can't still be excited about him improving this year and down the line.

For one, let's look at something that should be clear to everyone by now: Alex Gordon has, in fact, improved overall since last season. Last year's HBP-boosted .247/.314/.411 line isn't exactly blown away by Alex's current .265/.345/.419, but there's definitely caveats here. That .314 OBP had a lot to do with getting plunked 13 times last year, and this year's .345 figure is only slightly boosted by 4 HBPs. After walking only 41 times in 151 games last year, Gordon has already taken 32 free passes. Gordon is also seeing 3.95 pitches per plate appearance this year, which .03 more than David DeJesus. The former is critiscized by many Royals fans as being an impatient hitter at the plate, while the latter is considered to have a very good plate approach. It's also worth noting that that 3.95 P/PA is highest on the team. Now I know this will bring up the totally reasonable argument that patience is not the same thing as working the count effectively to drive the ball--because clearly Alex still needs to work on that--but Gordon is the last player on this team that should be dismissed as someone who isn't working the count.

Now, if you're next reaction is to say something like "okay, but .265/.345/.419 isn't that much better than the career numbers, and it still isn't good for a 3B" then...we are in total agreement. But there's another interesting thing going on with Gordon right now, namely his RHP-LHP splits.

  • Alex Gordon 2008 vs. RHP: .294/.370/.505
  • Alex Gordon 2008 vs. LHP: .195/.286/.218
  • Alex Gordon Career vs. RHP: .270/.344/.440
  • Alex Gordon Career vs. LHP: .209/.274/.343

That 2008 vs. RHP line is a lot closer towards what everyone wants, isn't it? Noting that Gordon's overall line has been unimpressive in the majors is fine, because unlike derisions of his plate discipline, it's true. However, it makes sense to parse the splits, especially in the case of a young player. It is far too early in Gordon's career to label him a player who can't hit lefties at all, as that career vs. lefties sample is in 200-something PAs (barely a third of one season's worth). Nonetheless, it has be pointed out that Gordon is killing right-handed pitching this year, while he turns into Freddie Bynum against left-handers. Is this necessarily better than him OPSing 730 vs. righties and lefties, you ask? To my way of thinking, yes. It's not all that uncommon for a young left-handed hitter to struggle against same-sided pitching and then find his feet against them with experience. Maybe Gordon will never be a lefty-masher, but if he can keep up his current vs. RHP clubbing and combine that with, say, a .250 BA against LHPs--hardly an unrealistic goal--his overall line will give us a lot less to complain about. It's not as if Gordon came up with some major caveat such as "this kid is awesome, but he can't touch lefties." The talent is there, the plate discipline is coming, and an improvement versus lefties would vault Gordon up into triple-slash numbers where he would be a plus for his position.

If there's anything we should be getting on Alex for in particular, it's his weak hitting versus left-handers and the fact he's not exactly thrilling defensively overall, despite several gold glove plays this year. Alex Gordon is not a superstar, or a lost cause. I think we all know that a player can be quite good while falling somewhere in-between these extremes.

 

 

Poll
Is Alex Gordon officially a disappointment?
Yes
28 votes
No
38 votes
You're kidding, right? He's played all of a year and a half in the majors.
193 votes

259 votes | Poll has closed

1 recs  |  Comment 144 comments

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Comments

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Great post

Patience is a good thing. Royals fans could use some.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 25, 2008 4:28 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Right now 50 votes, only 8% say yes.

I would have expected higher, honestly. Maybe its a vocal minority.

Nobody will celebrate harder when the Royals make the playoffs!!

by juano on Jun 25, 2008 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What is the precedent

For guys struggling with splits turning it around? Do most good players do that?

I think there is just a frustration with Royals fans seeing Gordon and Butler struggle, while many rookies and second year players around baseball succeed. These guys were sold to us as “can’t miss” and while I still think they will both be solid players, even All-Stars, I have to admit, I’ve been pretty disappointed thus far.

But no one has seriously said “this guy is a bust, get rid of him,” have they? I mean, most of the criticisms are…well because he hasn’t been better than mediocre. We’ll be patient, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t expect more out of him now.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jun 25, 2008 4:41 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Of course we should

I was pointing out that some of the critiscisms levelled at Alex just don’t hold much water. And that versus righties he’s doing very, very well this year.

Chase Utley is one of the best examples of a guy who couldn’t hit lefties at first turning it around. Trot Nixon, one of my old Sox favorites, had a couple good years versus lefties after not touching them early in his career. Raul Ibanez was useless against portsiders in KC but has had some good showings versus them in Seattle.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 25, 2008 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't forget TPJ

Look at how he developed to where he can hit both righties and lefties equally.

by jsolo on Jun 25, 2008 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm Pretty Sure

He hits LHP’s from the left side about as well as he does from the right, he just hasn’t tried.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jun 25, 2008 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

In fairness

I think the “another rally killed by Alex Gordon” was a tongue-in-cheek comment made after he hit a home run. I know I’ve made the comment on more than one occasion.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jun 25, 2008 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

In fairness

I wasn’t directly quoting anyone’s comments, Retro. I was just trying to illustrate the perhaps disproportionate negativity. Your continued efforts to show that home runs kill rallies is, as always, appreciated. ;)

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 25, 2008 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Patience may be a virtue

but I’m hardly going to bash other Royals fans for not being thrilled with Gordon’s 1.5 MLB seasons after seeing Braun, Upton, Longoria, Bruce, and Tulo dominate from almost the second they stepped in an MLB batters box.

The fact of the matter is that Gordon was right up there with Justin Upton as the top prospect in the 2005 draft, and was the #1 overall prospect heading into the 2007 season. To be happy with his results thus far would basically be accepting that he was slightly overrated.

Founder of the Rowdy Hardy Fan Club

by eazyb81 on Jun 25, 2008 4:48 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Put Gordon in any of those lineups with the guys you mentioned...

Batting lower in the order to start
Not being rushed to the majors
With guys like Fielder/Hart, Griffery/Dunn, Holliday/Helton, Pena/Crawford in the lineup
In far better hitters parks (except maybe TB)

And I think you’d see an upward adjustment to his numbers as well

by jsolo on Jun 25, 2008 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Prospects get overrated all of the time.

A lot of prospect hounds tend be irrationally excited, and often predict the world for a young player who hasn’t cracked AA yet. I’m not “bashing” anyone. I’m attempting to show what Alex is really doing wrong, and it isn’t hitting in generall…it’s hitting vs. lefties.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 25, 2008 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just to put it in perspective though

Taking out Upton (because I don’t recall the circumstances of his major league arrival) the other guys are in big time hitter’s park and in most cases were considered (by the media/fans) to have been in the minors too long before their callups. Remember all the noise surrounding guys like Longoria and Bruce not making the team out of spring training? Samething happened to Braun the year before.

On the other hand, Gordon made the team when most of us thought he would start in AAA and had to deal with a much more pitcher friendly environment.

by jsolo on Jun 25, 2008 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Of course they do

and I didn’t mean to imply that you were bashing anyone. All I’m saying is that, overall, Gordon’s numbers are disappointing, and certainly don’t warrant the attention that was heaped on him as a young prospect.

Founder of the Rowdy Hardy Fan Club

by eazyb81 on Jun 25, 2008 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Very good prospects often become

average or “only” above average major leaguers. Prospect experts might have you believe otherwise, but it’s true.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 25, 2008 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Braun: 199 minor league games at five levels over three years; 767 at-bats.
Upton: 216/ 3-2 /823
Longoria: 205/ 4-3 /785
Bruce: 353/ 5-4 /1341

Gordon: 130/ 1-1 /486

Which of these five guys would you least expect to immediately succeed in the major leagues?

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jun 25, 2008 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe the least experienced?

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 25, 2008 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The least experienced

but that would be Upton and Bruce, since they didn’t have the benefit of playing three college years at an elite D1 program.

And frankly, I don’t believe playing more minor league games magically made those players better at the plate than Gordon.

Founder of the Rowdy Hardy Fan Club

by eazyb81 on Jun 25, 2008 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Now you're REALLY being crazy.

Between college and his one year in the minors, Alex Gordon 1086 AB.

Jay Bruce had 1341, against better competition than Gordon had for the most part, except for one year.

Upton’s had only a little less experience than Gordon, again mostly against tougher competition, and he plays his home games in a bandbox now.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jun 25, 2008 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Experience

Bruce made him MLB debut at 21 years old; Gordon made his at 23 years old. Thus, Gordon had two years of OVERALL baseball experience on Bruce, regardless of the minor league AB numbers.

Yes, Bruce had more MILB AB than Gordon, but that’s not counting the extra practices, batting cage experience, work with coaches, etc, than any reasonable person would see that Gordon had on Bruce and Upton considering the difference in age when they made their debut.

Founder of the Rowdy Hardy Fan Club

by eazyb81 on Jun 25, 2008 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

I don’t see how your argument really fits together in a way that makes sense, eazy.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 25, 2008 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

+2

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 25, 2008 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm saying

that the 2 year difference in age underscores the fact that Gordon has received more overall baseball experience than Jay Bruce had when he reached the majors. Alex Gordon reached the majors on April, 2007 – 23 years and 1 month into life. Jay Bruce reached the majors in May, 2008 – 21 years and 1 month into life. Thus, Gordon had two years on him, and he didn’t just twiddle his thumbs and read books during that time.

Disagree if you want, but lack of experience is a laughable excuse as to why Alex Gordon has been an MLB disappointment.

Founder of the Rowdy Hardy Fan Club

by eazyb81 on Jun 25, 2008 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Which isn't, I don't think, what people were arguing.

Rather that Gordon’s transition to the majors was tougher because he had exactly one professional season under his belt, and that was at AA.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 25, 2008 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Look up

People were in fact arguing that Gordon should have seen less success at the early MLB level because he supposedly had less experience. Again, I feel that excuse is BS.

Founder of the Rowdy Hardy Fan Club

by eazyb81 on Jun 25, 2008 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And I disagree

I think that skipping AAA did make his debut a bit rougher than it might have been. If Gordon had gone to AAA, we might’ve seen more warts and his game and been more ready for him to learn on the job.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 25, 2008 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Of course it made his MLB debut rougher

Without a doubt.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 25, 2008 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And I agree with that

but damn, it’s doesn’t excuse everything. I can’t believe any of you are sitting here and claiming that if Gordon only faced pitchers like Matt Wright in AAA for a few weeks instead of pitchers like, uh, Matt Wright in AA, he would have blown the f up in MLB. That’s BS, fantasy stuff right there.

Bruce had only 437 AB in minor league ball above High A, Justin Upton had 259, and Gordon had 486. I’m sorry, but I’m not going to buy the company line that the lack of AAA-specific experience for Gordon had any real effect on him, outside of starting slow last year.

Founder of the Rowdy Hardy Fan Club

by eazyb81 on Jun 25, 2008 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is anyone saying that some AAA time would have necessarily turned Gordon into a star this year?

Anyone? I didn’t think so.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 25, 2008 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Many

are implying it.

I’m not the one that started this ridiculous argument to begin with.

Founder of the Rowdy Hardy Fan Club

by eazyb81 on Jun 25, 2008 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No one is implying it. You are inferring it.

And if you think the argument is ridiculous, you need to do a little navel gazing.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 25, 2008 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't pull that stuff out, please.

It’s not a valid point to debate a point with someone for so long and then say “i didn’t start it!” as if this somehow means any relevant to the discussion.

And if that’s what you think I was “implying,” you’re wrong. I wasn’t. Go back and read my posts and show me where I said that a year of AAA would’ve made Gordon a star. I’ll save you some time: I didn’t. I said it probably would’ve helped him find his level the majors quicker once he was promoted.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 25, 2008 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Then what are we arguing?

Because I don’t disagree with your last sentence. However, if you think his lack of AAA experience is still hindering him from “finding his level at the majors”, then I would disagree with that.

Frankly, I just don’t think AAA experience is all that beneficial in the long run, and I certainly don’t think it should excuse or even come up in comments now as to why Gordon in underperforming.

Founder of the Rowdy Hardy Fan Club

by eazyb81 on Jun 25, 2008 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I believe I was making that point

because you thought that NYRoyal or someone else thought AAA would’ve made Gordon into a star. He didn’t say that either.

And the only thing I was saying in regard to AAA is that Alex’s career major league numbers might have been a tick better if AAA ball had helped make a smoother transition to the majors. Not that it would’ve made Gordon into David Wright.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 25, 2008 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Do you really think

that the training regimens, instruction, and competition level of a professional organization to which players can devote their full attention isn’t superior to playing for the best team in a mostly-mediocre college conference?

A player is going to develop more playing low-A ball than they are playing in college. End of story.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jun 25, 2008 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's not what I was saying.

It’s rather cloudy right now when it comes to establish any set of rules when it comes to when a prospect should be moved up. Different prospects, different people, different expectations, different treatments.

I’m not arguing, nor is anyone else, that playing in AAA would’ve turned Gordon into a star. I’m saying that if he had played in AAA he probably would’ve found his true MLB hitting level faster. In other words, if Alex is an 800 OPS hitter…he would’ve hit closer to that level faster instead of struggling for a whole year. Capice?

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 25, 2008 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's certainly a compelling argument

but personally I just don’t buy it. If a player is truly great then he would have made the adjustment by now. Oh well.

Founder of the Rowdy Hardy Fan Club

by eazyb81 on Jun 25, 2008 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're right.

Apparently, the one year that Alex played high school baseball or little league baseball or T-ball or whatever which Jay Bruce did not spend doing so makes all the difference.

You can’t count FORWARD. You have to count BACKWARD.

The year before their MLB debuts, Gordon was in AA; Bruce was in A, AA, and AAA.
The year before that, Gordon was a senior at Nebraska; Bruce was in A ball.
The year before that, Gordon was a soph at NU; Bruce was in rookie ball.
The year before that, Gordon was a freshman at NU, and Bruce was a senior in high school.

You see where your “two years” sort of falls apart here now? Alex has only had ONE more year of practical experience than Bruce. Not two, regardless of the two-year age difference.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jun 25, 2008 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Huh?

Bruce was a high school junior during Alex Gordon’s sophomore year at Nebraska, not in rookie ball.

Founder of the Rowdy Hardy Fan Club

by eazyb81 on Jun 25, 2008 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who then went to rookie ball...

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 25, 2008 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Eh

he went to rookie ball in 2005, when Gordon was a junior.

Founder of the Rowdy Hardy Fan Club

by eazyb81 on Jun 25, 2008 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're missing the point.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 25, 2008 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Oh, god, pay attention.

Re-read my comment until it makes sense, unless “the year before they made their major league debuts” is too complex.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jun 25, 2008 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, it doesn't fall apart at all

The bottom line is that Bruce made his MLB debut two years younger than Gordon, period. End of story. You can rationalize it all you want but I’m simply not going to agree that Bruce was somehow more ready than Gordon despite being two years younger.

Founder of the Rowdy Hardy Fan Club

by eazyb81 on Jun 25, 2008 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Then you've got a lot of people

disagreeing, since Bruce clearly had more professional experience by the time he made his major league debut. If we followed the logic of what you’re saying, older prospects should be more ready than someone with the same skill set who is younger. This is just not always the case.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 25, 2008 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, it does.

Prior to his major league debut, Jay Bruce spent three full seasons being trained professionally to excel as a baseball player. Prior to that, he presumably spent some number of years playing baseball in high school.

Prior to his major league debut, Alex Gordon spent four full seasons playing organized baseball; one professionally, and three in college. Prior to that, he presumably spent the exact same number of years playing baseball in high school as Bruce did, so that’s a wash.

You with me? 3 years for Bruce, 4 years for Gordon. Four minus three is one. It is not two. One. Obviously, Alex must have graduated high school when he was 19, not 18.

So now, I want you to tell me at what level of organized baseball Alex Gordon received that second extra year of baseball training which you insist he received, and what level of importance we should place on it. Was it Little League, or T-Ball?

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jun 25, 2008 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

(Correction)

It’s not that Alex was only 19. I forgot something important.

Alex graduated in May of 2002, and his freshman season at Nebraska didn’t start until February 2003.

Bruce graduated in May of 2004… and two months later was playing professional baseball.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jun 25, 2008 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow, you're serious, aren't you?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 25, 2008 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is it really

that difficult to understand?

Founder of the Rowdy Hardy Fan Club

by eazyb81 on Jun 25, 2008 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, we all understand it

It’s clear that some of us very much disagree.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 25, 2008 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

BTW

Although, Bruce’s start was amazing, he has really cooled off lately, just saying, he has way too small of a sample size to put him in with these other players.

by I need more Esteban on Jun 25, 2008 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think Alex is fine.

He’s already a solid all around player showing steady improvement. My complaint isn’t with him but with the front office for having him skip AAA. Skipping levels is not a good idea for any prospect. Especially on a team who was/is rebuilding. That’s not hindsight talking that should be an organizational mandate both for developmental and service time reasons.

by djk royal on Jun 25, 2008 4:51 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Sorry

but I’m not buying the “skipping AAA” excuse for his lackluster results. Many, MANY top prospects have skipped AAA and have not missed a beat. Furthermore, I could see that excuse explaining why he started slow at the beginning of last season, but at this point it should be a non-issue.

Founder of the Rowdy Hardy Fan Club

by eazyb81 on Jun 25, 2008 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Some skip AAA and don't miss a beat. And some do.

Maybe he needed that extra step and because he didn’t get it, it is slowing his development. It’s a possibility and I certainly wouldn’t dismiss it out of hand.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 25, 2008 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sure it's a possibility

but if it’s still messing with him at this point, then again, maybe he wasn’t the caliber of prospect he was hyped up to be.

Founder of the Rowdy Hardy Fan Club

by eazyb81 on Jun 25, 2008 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lots of maybes

Maybe he isn’t. Maybe he is. We sure don’t know yet. And maybe pushing him up so quickly hurt his development. It happens.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 25, 2008 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

It’s just an excuse at this point.

Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.

by doublestix on Jun 25, 2008 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agree, but

I think in Alex’s case, maybe that time in AAA should have been the last month of 2006.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jun 25, 2008 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What does worry me a bit

Is that he had very high strikeout numbers in the minors. Not even Adam Dunn had high strikeout numbers in the minors.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jun 25, 2008 4:52 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

But some good MLB hitters did have high strikeout numbers in the minors

David Ortiz comes to mind.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 25, 2008 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Perhaps

Ortiz only had one really bad strikeout season (I guess you could say the same about Alex) but it was at a much younger age.

I mean, I’m sure there are examples of guys that had high strikeout numbers that ended up being good, just like there are examples of Mike Aviles-type players getting good at age 27, but I wonder if that is the exception or the rule.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jun 25, 2008 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I believe Ortiz had two years with a strikeout rate very similar to Gordon's (including one season in AAA if I remember correctly)

I don’t know if it is the exception to the rule or not. We’d have to look at a lot of data to know. But I would be surprised if it were particularly rare.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 25, 2008 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The flip side

is that he also had good walk rates in the minors, too. I think if he had gone to AAA we might’ve seen his up-and-down rookie season coming a bit easier.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 25, 2008 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Plus when you only control a player for six years.

You would like him to step in and contribute right away. Not be okay for two years while he learns burning service time.

by djk royal on Jun 25, 2008 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ideally, of course you would.

But a lot of players who go on to be quite good struggle comparatively in their first big league exposure.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 25, 2008 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Scott Rolen

had similar K numbers his first few years.

Founder of the Rowdy Hardy Fan Club

by eazyb81 on Jun 25, 2008 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Alex Gordon

was Sold as the “Next George Brett” a midwest born and bred sequel to the original King of Kansas City. So to not be disappointed by his 1.5 year line in the bigs would be crazy. Everyone read the headlines, listened to the expectations and were sold the goods it is just a reaction to what they were sold.

I myself watched Alex at Nebraska heard all the hype in Lincoln/Omaha watched him at the CWS and regionals and was never expecting more than a average to good player. He is almost Too Intense Too Mechanical Too Drago (“Rocky IV”) to ever develop into a superstar superstud. He puts too much pressure on himself until he loosens up a bit he is gonna be average in my opinion. That and he is too young to be hitting 3rd in our lineup I really think he just puts too much pressure on himself to make that big hit drive in the run because he looks at himself as the Leader.

Have you see him in the dugout, in the line after a win? Is this a job or a game?

Billy at worst will be Sean Casey jr.

by kcscoliny on Jun 25, 2008 5:03 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Alex Gordon was Sold as the "Next George Brett" a midwest born and bred sequel to the original King of Kansas City. So to not be disappointed by his 1.5 year line in the bigs would be crazy.

God, you people just astound me sometimes.

Brett wasn’t exactly rookie of the year, and he had more experience in the minors than Gordon had between college and the minors combined.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jun 25, 2008 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

That's kinda silly

He wasn’t being billed as “having similar numbers to George’s rookie year.” He was sold to us as another George Brett. And when George was Alex’s age, he was already having his third straight MVP-calibre season.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jun 25, 2008 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

George also made his major league debut at age 20.

I mean, come on.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jun 25, 2008 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Well

As soon as hire Charlie Lau, I’ll feel a lot better about Alex’s chances then.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jun 25, 2008 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It doesn't matter what George Brett did as a Rookie.

I didn’t expect Alex to live up to the expectations to play to George’s ability but many fans did. And why? Because the organization sold him as that. For fans not to get excited then you are being unreasonable. I mean come on this team has been a wreck since George retired and here comes another young third base left handed hitting so called stud. To ask fans of a team in a 20 year losing span to temper expectations you’re being unreasonable.

Billy at worst will be Sean Casey jr.

by kcscoliny on Jun 25, 2008 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No,

it’s being realistic. Alex Gordon is not George Brett. He’s not about to become George Brett. To fairly evaluate Alex as a player going forward, we need to set aside the prospect hype and look at what kind of ballplayer he’s actually becoming.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 25, 2008 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You two aren't exactly the Fans that are being sold the goods

Typical fans are up and down, bad and good, loud and boisterous not reasonable acting people. KC hyped Gordon, no one can deny that. Why did they do it? To sell jerseys, tickets, etc. etc. Once a team does that all reasonable expectations fly out the window. This is a Mt. Dew drinking give me more society fans/people want stuff now and they have A.D.D and want results now. To expect people to change is as crazy as the craziness they spout out of their mouths.

IMO Alex will develop into a .280-300 BA 20-30 HR 75-90 RBI consistently. Will he be the next A-Rod, no. But I wouldn’t be surprised if he develops into a perennial All Star incumbent.

Billy at worst will be Sean Casey jr.

by kcscoliny on Jun 25, 2008 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, wow,

you don’t need to lecture me on American culture. I live in it, and it’s a blast.

To expect people to change is as crazy as the craziness they spout out of their mouths.

So, you’re telling me that it doesn’t make any sense to try and point out what the actual negatives of a player are because everyone’s so disappointed he’s not George Brett? People need to get over it, eventually, or their dislike of Gordon will just become silly and irrational.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 25, 2008 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ya that is exactly what I am saying.

There dislike IS silly and irrational but no more silly and irrational than your expectation of others.

Billy at worst will be Sean Casey jr.

by kcscoliny on Jun 25, 2008 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So because I posted

that we should look at the actual negatives of Gordon’s game-hitting lefties and defense-with statistics to illustrate my points in an effort to contribute to a serious baseball blog, I’m being just as irrational as someone who is mad at Gordon for not being Brett?

I’m sorry you feel that way. I don’t see it that way at all, and I wish you wouldn’t resort to insults such as this.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 25, 2008 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hey I'm right with the guys that think Gordon will be average to good

I’m not in the superstar area. All I said is that you and jonmorse shouldn’t be shocked by the reaction of the rest of the fans on here and in the stadiums to be disappointed if Alex isn’t George Right Now. That is what they were sold.

I’m a bit different than most around here because I was fortunate to see Alex play alot of college games. jonmorse has obviously been around a lot longer so he saw George play early and knows the 80’s George wasn’ the same as the 74 George. NHZ, you have seen progress and weren’t expecting Ryan Braun like numbers. I’m just not surprised at peoples expectations of him. I don’t think I layed out any insults by the way.

As for the comparisons come on. Only Braun has better numbers than Gordon thus far really. Bruce has been on the slight decline since his fast start 103 Ab’s is hardly a sample size. Upton, Longoria are hardly gang busters thus far no matter how much hype on BBTN.

Billy at worst will be Sean Casey jr.

by kcscoliny on Jun 25, 2008 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The insult,

a rather obvious one, was saying that I was being silly and irrational for writing about Gordon’s actual negatives in an effort to show people who are negative about him in general what he is actually doing wrong.

I’m not all surprised that a lot of people feel like they’re not getting what they were sold by PR in terms of Gordon’s production, but I see nothing silly or irrational about pointing out that it makes much more sense going forward to evaluate Gordon for what he is and not what we wanted him to be.

The rest of what you’re saying, I agree with.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 25, 2008 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Even better

I was just a dumb kid, and I kept asking “Why’d we get rid of Paul Schaal?”

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jun 25, 2008 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The point is

that Brett was also a “disappointment” when he came up, at first. I realize it’s hard for people to understand this unless they’re grumpy old bastards with long memories who remember Municipal Stadium, but that’s just how it goes.

If you compare someone to George Brett, as someone who saw George Brett play as a rookie, that means “someone who will struggle, then explode.”

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jun 25, 2008 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Then maybe this has a lot to do

with the prospect hype machine, as well as having to do with Gordon not tearing the cover off the ball?

I don’t place any weight in him being too intense. I don’t know exactly what you’re trying to say with “Is this a job or a game?”

Either way, maybe next year people shouldn’t be so ready to hail a young kid who never played AAA ball as the next HoFer to step on the diamond.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 25, 2008 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Prospect Hype Machine

certainly wasn’t broken when looking at Upton, Braun, Longoria, Bruce, etc.

Founder of the Rowdy Hardy Fan Club

by eazyb81 on Jun 25, 2008 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Do you know that a very high percentage of top prospects fail?

The fact that some succeed doesn’t mean that the prospect hype machine is just making realistic projections and that the vast majority of hyped prospects actually will succeed.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 25, 2008 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, really?

tell me more grandpa! Jesus, enough w/ the condescending BS.

Yes, prospects fail. That said, of the top prospects in recent years, Gordon looks to be one of the biggest failures at this point in time, along with Delmon Young.

Founder of the Rowdy Hardy Fan Club

by eazyb81 on Jun 25, 2008 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Then don't act like the "prospect hype machine" is something that should be defended

“Boy the hype machine was sure right about players X, Y and Z!” Please

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 25, 2008 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I will defend it

Even though prospect-gazers aren’t perfect, prospects that are hyped up succeed far more often than they fail.

Founder of the Rowdy Hardy Fan Club

by eazyb81 on Jun 25, 2008 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But

the “prospect hype machine” was a figure of speech I used, not a real machine with gears and widgets and such. :P

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 25, 2008 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Seems like you are contradicting yourself

I said that a “very high percentage of top prospects fail.” You responded by telling that is obvious and that I shouldn’t condescend to you. And then you later say that “hyped prospects succeed more often than they fail.” They don’t.

I guess it depends on what you mean by “succeed.” Do most of them become good enough to stay on a MLB roster for several seasons? Yes. Do most of them become good MLB players? No. Most top prospects fail to become good MLB players.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 25, 2008 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is just an extraordinary claim, eazy.

Let’s set aside your ad hominem attack for a second.

Alex Gordon is “one of the biggest failures at this point in time”? How? Because he’s OPSing league average in the bigs? Nope. There are hundreds of prospects who never make the big leagues and do as well as Gordon, and each one of those guys is ahead of Gordon on this “biggest failure” list.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 25, 2008 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He may be the biggest failure in major league history

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 25, 2008 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Man

Even more of a failure than Joe Charbonneau?

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jun 25, 2008 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

A million times bigger

Maybe a billion. We’ll have to see how he does tonight to be sure.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 25, 2008 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Perhaps a sequillion

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 25, 2008 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Charbonneau Chugged Beer

Through his nose and had a song written about him; case closed.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jun 25, 2008 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You missed the first part

That said, of the top prospects in recent years, Gordon looks to be one of the biggest failures at this point in time….

So, I’m not comparing him to the Ben Grieves and Todd Van Poppel’s of the world, I’m comparing him to his highly-ranked peers over the last two years. Outside of Delmon, who has underperformed more from that group?

Anyways, this was fun but I have to crank out some work so I’m not here all night. Adios.

Founder of the Rowdy Hardy Fan Club

by eazyb81 on Jun 25, 2008 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Eh,

there are plenty of very high ranking prospects that never become more than average or merely “good” major leaguers. It’s the way things go. NYRoyal and I have, at length, discussed in the past how prospect people tend to overrate almost every single prospect.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 25, 2008 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And FTR

Van Poppel was very highly rated.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 25, 2008 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He was about as highly regarded as prospects get.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 25, 2008 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think you misunderstood

Of course Van Poppel was a top prospect, but he wasn’t a recent prospect. I named Grieve and Van Poppel as past top prospects of different eras.

Founder of the Rowdy Hardy Fan Club

by eazyb81 on Jun 26, 2008 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Do you think that the value of prospect hype has suddenly improved in the last two years?

You’re not suggesting that prospects used to be over-hyped and now the hype is much more realistic, are you? Surely not.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 25, 2008 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I definitely am

The information on players and the emphasis on scouting and development has most certainly improved by leaps and bounds over the past few years.

Founder of the Rowdy Hardy Fan Club

by eazyb81 on Jun 26, 2008 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

By leaps and bounds over the past few years?

The amount of information that fans have access to over the past few years has increased by leaps and bounds. But the amount of information that the sports news media has access to, BP, BA, etc. has not increased appreciably or even noticeably in the past few years. The prospect hype machine is no more accurate today than it was 5 years ago. Not a bit.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 26, 2008 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

And the prospect hype machine isn’t actually a real machine, either.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 27, 2008 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is too.

I’ve been keeping this a secret from you all, but the prospect hype machine is in my utility closet. Has been for years. Every few days, I have to go stuff another washed-up utility infielder into the intake chute in order to fuel and grease it.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jun 27, 2008 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Upton is hitting okay

in a great pitcher’s park. Braun’s OBP is dragging him value down, Longoria has awhile to go before he’s a well-rounded hitter, and Bruce has come back to earth after a great start. There are warts with any prospect not named Pujols.

I’m just saying that comparing any prospect to a HoFer is STUPID because it sets you up for disappointment. Most baseball prospects fail. The guys you are talking about, obviously, are exceptions.

and “the prospect hype machine wasn’t broken” doesn’t actuality make any specific point, you know. It’s twisting a figure a speech I used into something unrecognizable.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 25, 2008 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

Bruce has 6 hits (5 singles) in his last 37 ABs with 1 HR and 2 RBIs!!!! Wow, he is the next MVP of the league!!!! Alright, in seriousness, he will probably be a good player but I don’t understand why he is even in the conversation. That start was very impressive, but let’s just take it easy here, he hasn’t done crap for weeks now.

I’ll agree with NHZ about Upton, while I still believe he will be a very good player, he is really hitting just OK.

I

by I need more Esteban on Jun 25, 2008 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gordon's development

We should have had him pinch-run more often last year. The Justin Huber Development Track gets results!

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jun 25, 2008 5:04 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The Royals clearly ruined Huber

On top of his bad stats in SD, he’s off to a bad start in the minors too. .214/.313/.286 A great player wasted.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 25, 2008 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

all part of the master plan to move AG off of 3rd base too

lets get either him or Teahen at 1st asap, where they will be much less valuable!

by royalsreview on Jun 25, 2008 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Eric Chavez & Splits

I had no idea his splits were that dramatic…

Eric Chavez has had a similar issue throughout his career (.239/.308/.397 career v LHP)

he seems to have been able to improve some versus lefties, especially during his 03-05 peak period, but the issue never really went away

L/R splits can be very weird though, both for pitchers and hitters. There are numerous cases of guys being used as LOOGYs, and the numbers showing them actually having a reverse split. Moreover, from year to year it can be fickle. Its something of a mysterious topic…

by royalsreview on Jun 25, 2008 5:15 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I opened Eric Chavez's B-R page immediately after reading the main article

Chavez is Gordon’s No. 1 PECOTA comp. Like Gordon, Chavez was touted as a future superstar. Chavez, however, never quite made it to that level (injuries certainly did not help), yet was good enough during his peak years to garner MVP votes. Was Chavez disappointing? If Butler has a career like Chavez, will he be appreciated, or considered a disappointment?

by Gopherballs on Jun 25, 2008 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If Gordon

ended up being Eric Chavez without injuries, we should all be pretty happy with him, I think.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 25, 2008 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's not star enough for me

I want a supernova!

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 25, 2008 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can't have one

Jeez, this was not meant as a general appeal to the Royals’ universe to get off Gordon’s back, it was supposed to highlight to this blog what his real live weaknesses have been. Ech.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 25, 2008 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's good, I suppose.

People need to talk out their feelings on Alex.

And I killed NYRoyal with a trident by accident.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 25, 2008 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That was uncalled for

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 25, 2008 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Harpoons cramp my style

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 25, 2008 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Real Men Use

Gaff hooks.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jun 25, 2008 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Um...

where can I order one?

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 25, 2008 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with you

My supernova comment was a joke.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 25, 2008 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know

my blood is up. Sorry.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 25, 2008 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

At least you don't have it coming out of your head like Brain Onora

I hope that guy is ok.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 25, 2008 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Eek

Seconded.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 25, 2008 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Eh

Well, I don’t see many people on the fence, here.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jun 25, 2008 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm going to play scout and ignore the stats for once

First of all, nobody has pointed out something – Bell often rested Gordon versus lefties last year, while Hillman (rightly) has tried to foster his development by letting him play most every day. (What Bell did was OK, too, in my opinion – it’s the same thing they did with DDJ as a young player – ease him in versus lefties). I think this is possibly masking what I see as real development this year.

From an amatuer scout perspective, I see a hitter who too often tries to pull everything. This approach works OK versus righthanders, because he does have awesome raw power. Unfortunately, lefties, with ball breaking away from him, not so much.

I think Gordon is capable of learning this lesson, and to improve his platoon splits he absolutely has to hit more to the opposite field against the lefties (at least often enough so they throw him at least an occasional fastball inside).

FWIW, although obviously he most likely will not be as good as Brett, I can remember George having to make the same adjustment. He was a dead pull hitter when he first came up, but eventually improved on that approach. Of course, Brett reached the majors at a significantly younger age, so Gordon probably shouldn’t be expected to reach that level.

I still think he has the potential to end up being somewhere between 850 and 900 OPS during his prime, which should probably start around 2010.

by loyal2sdad on Jun 25, 2008 6:45 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

+1

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jun 25, 2008 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Analysis

Gordon attempting to pull everything is a common young hitter problem and as his power develops even more he’ll trust himself to go the other way. I’ve seen he also has a propensity to swing at the high fastball above the zone. The more he can lay off that pitch the better he will be.

Billy at worst will be Sean Casey jr.

by kcscoliny on Jun 25, 2008 7:11 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

switch hitting

When is it too late to learn to switch hit? Isn’t he a natural righty?

by Trey Hillman's Chin on Jun 25, 2008 7:17 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

He's hit lefthanded since he was young.

Billy at worst will be Sean Casey jr.

by kcscoliny on Jun 25, 2008 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What is wrong with Nebraskans?

Alex is a righty who hits left-handed, Joba is a lefty who pitches right handed, and Pat Venditte pitches with both arms. Why do we have to screw so much with mother nature?

by Trey Hillman's Chin on Jun 25, 2008 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Have you been to Nebraska?

What else is a guy to do than learn to throw with the opposite hand. Either that or use your primary hand for some real fun.

Billy at worst will be Sean Casey jr.

by kcscoliny on Jun 25, 2008 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I live there...

I guess I shouldn’t have needed to ask.

I saw an interview once where they asked Joba why he throws with his off hand, and he was like “I don’t know, that’s just how my dad taught me to throw.” He can hit 100 as it is. I wonder how hard he’d be throwing if Harlan had known what he was doing and taught his son how to pitch with the correct hand.

by Trey Hillman's Chin on Jun 25, 2008 7:30 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

(Bleep) you guys, I have work to do!

But NOOOOoooo, you obviously wanted me to make an ass out of myself by posting about something other than Jenna Fischer’s scouting profile, Lionel’s Hutz’s greatness, or what tags need to be added (nice analgoe to accompany anal goe, by the way). So, off we go to the dumbass fan races, starring me.

I don’t know what to expect of Alex Gordon. Maybe a guy who averages .275/.360/.510 with 25-30 jacks (and, if he keeps running, 10-20 steals) in his prime isn’t exactly A-Rod, and maybe some people got so worked up by the hype that they expected .300/.400/.580, 35-40 HRs, but, heck, isn’t the first option not so bad? Eric Chavez without injuries indeed!

That kind of performance and improvement (.275/.360/.510) from Gordon would make him the best hitter on the Royals this year (unless you think Guillen can keep up the current hot streak… which would make him one of the best hitters ever. Maybe I’m just an bastard pessimist, but I’m going to go out on a limb and say that’s unlikely), and probably next. If Butler has a similar developmental curve, then KC, with a smart free agents addition on offense or two (what that is a whole ‘nother debate) and the pitching keeping on, can definitely contend, I would think.

I guess the question for me still other there as to whether and when Gordon can reach something like the .275/.360/.510 level. I’m not saying I doubt it, I’m asking if that’s a realistic expectation for next year. Cause that would be cool, seriously.

More more mild irony: for all the “next George Brett” talk, I think it’s sort of funny that as a hitter, Gordon’s “style” (lots of walks, Ks, and power) much more closely resembles Mike Schmidt’s (in style, not quality) than Brett’s.

I really hope they don’t move him off of third, although I’ve only read fan speculation about that.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Jun 26, 2008 12:09 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The only similarities b/t George and Alex

are that they both play 3B and they both struggle (relatively speaking) against lefties. George’s avg was .318 v R and .280 v L. And believe it or not, George had a BB/K ratio of 1.50 v R and .77 v L (more Ks than BBs v L for the KC great one?). (Strangely, in George’s first two complete seasons (‘74&’75), he hit .288 v R and .299 v L, better from the L and higher than his career average from the L. But his BB/K v R was 1.16 and v L was .38.)
Alex doesn’t quite have two full seasons yet, but so far his avg is .269 v R and .209 v L. On the other hand, his BB/K ratio is .37 v R and .31 v L. Very weak, but equally weak. The real culprit (other than K-ing to much) is his BAbip: .328 v R and .251 v L. Maybe he should strike out more v L (like George) and hit fewer weak grounders to second (smiley face that is winking and sticking out it’s tongue, possibly with a mohawk). (Again, somewhat strangely, George’s BAbip in his first two years was higher from the L side: .300 v R and .329 v L.)

by benfunke on Jun 26, 2008 12:45 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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