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Nyroyal3a_tiny by NYRoyal on

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I love come from behind wins.  Thank you Miguel Olivo.  Even cooled off, you still hammer lefties.

 

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Oh yeah

And maybe Horacio Ramirez isn’t the worst pitcher in baseball. Too soon to tell, but maybe. Regardless, it’s not like Team Ramrod, Mahay and Soria can pitch every relief inning. Are you more comfortable with Gobble pitching in the middle innings? Peralta? If so, why?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 30, 2008 11:33 PM EDT   0 recs

3 2/3 innings

Um, yea its too early to tell.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 1, 2008 10:33 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Exactly

I liked Peralta as much as anybody going into this season, but he hasn’t been himself. Did anyone really want Peralta coming into this game in a good HR hitter’s park? I sure didn’t. I think H.Ramirez was as good a choice as any at the time. Mahay can’t go 4 innings.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 30, 2008 11:43 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't know what purpose this serves

After all, the game was over after the Orioles took the lead, don’t you know anything?

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jun 30, 2008 11:44 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

honestly...

I do enjoy ripping Ho-Ram, but at this point, I think that basically bullpen analysis is pretty limited. There are just so few known entities. Look at how CLE/CWS have completely switched positions this year, going first to worst/worst to first more or less, with mostly the same guys. The Tomkos/Ho-Rams of the world might be aight in relief, or they might suck. It’s honestly not a bad idea sending them out there…

by royalsreview on Jun 30, 2008 11:45 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

"It's honestly not a bad idea sending them out there..."

Particularly when the Royals bullpen outside of Soria-R.Ramirez-Mahay-Nunez has been truly awful. No other pitchers in that pen can be counted on.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 30, 2008 11:47 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

"Off the hook"...

I don’t know if you watched the Royals postgame or not, but after a reporter told him that he basically said he had never heard that expression before.

It was pretty funny.

by rockchalk on Jun 30, 2008 11:56 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Ovules

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jun 30, 2008 11:42 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

(which is Latin for “babies”, doncha know)

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jun 30, 2008 11:42 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Indians lost

We’re a game up!

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jun 30, 2008 11:45 PM EDT   0 recs

Great, my mom comes to town, and I miss a big comeback win

No sitting in my office, watching Gameday, and waiting to type “That’s what she said” into the Gamethread at the first opportunity for me.

So, does Ho-Ram get 3 or 4 years?

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Jun 30, 2008 11:45 PM EDT   0 recs

two years guaranteed

but then the royals have a team option for 4 straight years

by royalsreview on Jun 30, 2008 11:46 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Jose says you're a (bleep)ing baby too

If you were a man, you’d kick your moms to the curb until the post-game’s over

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jun 30, 2008 11:47 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I say he gets a 1-month contract

With team options for August and September.

Here’s a question. If he pitches ok out of the bullpen for the remainder of the year, will there be complaints if the Royals sign him to a one-year deal for 2008?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 30, 2008 11:49 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

depends on the money

and expectation/role he has

one thing that really amazes me is that teams constantly do this with bullpen guys: find fungible talent off the scrap heap, ,plug it in, get decent performance, then play player X, instead of just grabbing another guy

by royalsreview on Jun 30, 2008 11:51 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

"But, but, but

we CAN’T let Mike Myers go! We’ve gotta give him a 5-year deal!“

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jun 30, 2008 11:53 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

But, if they give him scrap heap money

...then it’s no different than picking up some other scrap heap guy. It’s not like they are going to give him $1M (fearless forecast).

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 30, 2008 11:57 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

true

then again, we would have never thought Gload/Grudz would have been extended either

i honestly think Davies would make a better reliever than Ho-Ram, maybe that can be next years move

by royalsreview on Jun 30, 2008 11:58 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I agree on Davies

But there may be an open bullpen spot which H.Ramirez could fill. We’ll see how it shakes out.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 1, 2008 12:00 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

There will always be compliaints

If you’re asking me if I would complain, well, it depends on what “OK” is and how big the deal is, and what his role is. I can’t imagine that, at this point, he’s the kind of guy who at his best would ever be anything more than a mop-up guy when the other relievers are at their best. What kind of deal are those guys worth? And hopefully Kyle Davies will be getting shoved into that role anyway, with Soria/Rosa joining the rotation.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Jun 30, 2008 11:52 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

If he pitches at an average or better level

(both in ERA and key peripherals), then I wouldn’t mind giving him a one-year $500K deal. Maybe even $750K deal plus incentives. That’s pretty bargain basement considering that league minimum is around $400K.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jun 30, 2008 11:59 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I think it's way too early to even be talking about it

After all, at one time Tomko was 1-0 with a 1.29 ERA and Jimmy Gobble was unhittable.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 1, 2008 12:01 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

That's why I put a significant condition on it

I’m not predicting anything with regard to his performance, much less suggesting Dayton call HR’s agent.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 1, 2008 12:03 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

No, I realize that

it’s just that in a week, we could just as likely be clamoring for him to be DFA.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 1, 2008 12:04 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes, he has not even pitched 4 innings yet

Considering he has walked nearly as many batters as he has struck out in 600+ major league innings (and he has not struck out that many) and is the rare sinkerballer who gives up home runs instead of suppressing them, the HoRam love has an expiration date.

by Gopherballs on Jul 1, 2008 1:13 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Is there any HoRam love?

Anyone?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 1, 2008 1:30 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Does "If he has a few more good outings,

I’ll start airing up the tires on the bandwagon” count?

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 1, 2008 11:03 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Relief

He’s also never pitched in relief where his stuff can play up. And let’s be honest, his stuff has actually looked quite decent so far.

Let’s give the guy a chance.

Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.

by doublestix on Jul 1, 2008 3:02 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Give him a chance?

Now you’re talking crazy.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 1, 2008 3:08 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

No kidding...

Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.

by doublestix on Jul 1, 2008 3:53 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

No doubt

I’m just wondering if people would be willing to have him around in 2009 if he pitched at a decent level for the remainder of 2008.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 1, 2008 1:30 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Did you read what I wrote?
So if Shane Costa got called up today and went 2 for 5 would it be too early to raise the idea of giving him a guaranteed major league contract for next year?

Did you read the part where I said “what if he pitches ok for the rest of the season?” I didn’t say that the Royals should start considering extending him right now. That’s a pretty big condition, no? Now if Costa came up and played well for the rest of the season, I would think that he should get some consideration for being on the team next year as well.

Apparently no matter what conditions are put on it, one isn’t even allowed to consider the possibility of having H.Ramirez on the team next year no matter how well he pitches. Sorry for going out of bounds.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 1, 2008 1:21 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Dude

It’s not that signing him for next year if he pitches well the rest of the season is a bad idea.

It’s that starting to discuss whether he’s going to pitch well for the rest of the season after a couple of decent innings is silly, regardless of any disclaimers or caveats.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 1, 2008 3:11 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Hubes!

Justin Huber was 2-4 with a HR last night. If he continues to hit well, should we consider trading for him?

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 1, 2008 3:23 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Good lord

So much for bringing up hypotheticals. Clearly I struck a nerve. Apparently “what if” scenarios are a real hot button issue.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 1, 2008 3:32 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Did I at any point discuss the likelihood of him pitching at a decent level for the remainder of the season?

Did I predict it or even say that it’s likely? Actually I think it is quite unlikely.

But is it stupid to even present the hypothetical? If you’re saying that is silly to even pose a hypothetical, then I don’t even know how to respond. Granted the hypothetical is likely to occur, but I shouldn’t even bring it up? Now that is silly.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 1, 2008 3:31 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Oh, just stop it.

You know that if we’d called up Chris Lubanski a month ago, and he’d gone 3-4 with 2 HR in his first game, and some over-exuberant soul had broached the subject of locking him up if he keeps hitting like that… you’d have bristled up and said it was silly to even talk about that sort of thing based on one game.

You’re only defending it now because it’s self-defense. You KNOW it’s silly, just chuckle and say “Okay, you got me”, and let’s all move on to arguing about how many former first-round draft picks we need to send to Colorado.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 1, 2008 3:38 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm not against hypotheticals...ever

You’re way, way off base here. If Lubanski came up and performed well for the remainder of the season, I would certainly consider having him on the team next year. No hypothetical is off base. If someone said it is likely that he’d perform at a decent level for the remainder of the year, I’d very much disagree with that.

But is there anything wrong with posing the hypothetical? Posing a hypothetical is not the same as arguing that it will happen. Arguing against the even posing a hypothetical is really bizarre, at best.

My whole point with bringing up the hypothetical (which I thought would have been obvious) is to determine how important people would think this half+ season of performance is, and whether a decent performance would be viewed as him turning things around. And then, if so, how much risk he’d be worth.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 1, 2008 3:50 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

That's why I put a significant condition on it

I’m not predicting anything with regard to his performance, much less suggesting Dayton call HR’s agent.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 1, 2008 12:03 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I will complain

Relievers are volatile, especially ones that can’t strike anybody out like Horacio.

I think DM understands how fungible relievers are.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 1, 2008 10:34 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

so is your mother staying in your basement?

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Jul 1, 2008 12:03 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

bako/la rue >>> buck/olivo

"I've seen the future and it's much like the present only longer." - Dan Quisenberry

by Safe@First on Jul 1, 2008 12:08 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

No.

Here’s the thing: did you actually see Olivo’s at-bat?

First pitch: low and away. Olivo flails.
Second pitch: low and away. Olivo flails.
Third pitch: Hernandez sets up on the inside corner. Sherrill throws absolute freakin’ meatball. Olivo’s eyes get as big as saucers. Not tea saucers. FLYING saucers. I think TPJ woulda gotten extra bases on that pitch.

If Sherrill makes any kind of pitch on 0-2, 2 outs, bases empty, the Orioles win. Think about that before praising Trey’s genius too much.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 1, 2008 11:07 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Theoreticals

Sure, if Sherrill makes a great pitch, O’s win. He didn’t. And Trey put a guy in there with the best chance of taking advantage of a mistake – Olivo. Making great managerial moves isn’t about making moves that are guaranteed to succeed. They’re about putting your players in the best position to succeed. And Trey did that.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 1, 2008 11:11 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

+1

Trey’s the man. Has been all season—-even during the losing streak. – TL

by timlacy on Jul 1, 2008 1:28 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Trey's been as good...

...a manager as the capabilities of his players allow him to be. – TL

by timlacy on Jul 1, 2008 3:09 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Except...not at all

His strategies have robbed the team of scoring opportunities, and he’s wildly overplayed crappy players like Gload and Gathright, while underplaying decent players like German and Callaspo.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 1, 2008 3:33 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

+1

Though I can’t really say that German losing playing time has that much to with Hillman, Hillman has had some definite bumps in the road.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 1, 2008 3:54 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Enough with that BS

We have disagreed vehemently with each other in the past and will so again in the future. Our debates last year were epic.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 1, 2008 4:01 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I missed those past...

...debates. My informal statistics on your agreements--per this year—indicate a high correlation of agreement. – TL

by timlacy on Jul 1, 2008 4:08 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Another lesson in small sample sizes

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 1, 2008 4:14 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

All too...

...true, I’m afraid. ...The same could be said, perhaps, about those who claim Soria would be a better starter. The sample pool on his success in that role is larger than in starting. I saw something here the other day that pointed out Soria actually relieved more than he started in the Mexican league. – TL

by timlacy on Jul 1, 2008 4:20 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

We're not saying he'd make a good SP because of his large sample of SP stats

We’re saying he’d make a good SP because he has the stuff and control of a good MLB SP. But the issue of whether or not he should be tried as SP shouldn’t be about how certain we are that he’d succeed in that role. We don’t need to be certain to try him in that role. If he proves that for whatever reason he can’t succeed as a starter, then he can go back to closer. 2008/09 is the perfect time to try this as we likely won’t be in contention. And if the worst thing that happens is that we lose a couple more games than we otherwise would have, it’s definitely worth a shot. The upside potential greatly outweighs the downside risk.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 1, 2008 4:27 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Just to be clear:...

...I’m not opposed to his being tried as a start in the future (i.e. 2009 or 2010), but not this year. Some RR readers are overly enthusiastic about moving him into the starting role. I’ve said this before, but it bears repeating. We don’t disagree as much as it might appear in some of the comments. – TL

by timlacy on Jul 1, 2008 4:34 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Why wait?

The reason he needs to start making starts this year is that the research is pretty clear that it is very dangerous to greatly increase IP from one year to the next. So he needs to be stretched out this year to get up to around 100 ip. And then about 130 the next year. Then, by 2010, he’d be ready to be nearly a full-time SP.

What do the Royals gain by waiting until 2009 or 2010? If he’s more valuable to the team as a SP than a RP, why should the Royals postpone that advantage?

Some RR readers are overly enthusiastic about moving him into the starting role.

I wonder what constitutes over-enthusiasm? I think the vast majority of people are basically saying that they think he’d be a good SP and that he’d be more valuable to the team in that role. Is that overly enthusiastic?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 1, 2008 4:38 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Why wait?

BECAUSE OMG WE MIGHT MISS THE PLAYOFFS THIS YEAR IF WE TRY!!11oneone

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 1, 2008 7:19 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Who recommended this?

This is a snarky, pointless comment that adds nothing to an actual baseball discussion. Whoever did it, be a little more reserved next time with you rec.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 2, 2008 11:25 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes, even though...

...I wrote the comment, it doesn’t deserve a recommend. I didn’t do it. But don’t sweat it. It was a heat of the moment thing. – TL

by timlacy on Jul 2, 2008 11:42 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

No sweat

You can’t rec your own comments, anyway. Believe me, I’ve tried. ;)

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 2, 2008 3:28 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

This is poppycock.

First, would Teahen have been down 0-2 on the crap Sherrill threw to start the at-bat? No.

Second, do you seriously think Teahen’s incapable of parking a fat-ass 87-MPH meatball in the seats?

It wasn’t a stupid move, and was probably the best percentage move, but it worked out not because Olivo was at the plate rather than Teahen, but because Sherrill threw one of the worst 2-out, bottom 9, 0-2 pitches in history. Lionizing managers because shit like this works out is why people think Tony LaRussa is a genius.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 1, 2008 3:07 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Hubes!

Justin Huber was 2-4 with a HR last night. If he continues to hit well, should we consider trading for him?

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 1, 2008 3:22 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Oops

Wrong reply. But my reply to this is that managers don’t win games, they put guys in the best position to win games. Could Teahen have hit that pitch into the seats? I don’t know, but his track record against lefties isn’t that great. And I doubt Sherill pitches a lefty exactly the same as he pitches a righty. We’re not lionizing Trey, we’re simply saying he did a really good job last night for one night. If we’re going to criticize when he makes dumb moves, I think we should give credit when he makes a good move.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 1, 2008 3:24 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Lemme put this a different way.

If Sherrill throws the same pitch on 0-2 that he threw on 0-0 and 0-1, and Olivo flails away at it again for strike three, does anyone - anyone - talk about how Trey made a good move?

Before you can give credit (or blame) to a manager for a decision, you have to be able to say you think it would have been a good (or bad) decision even