Meche to the Cubs?
by gordonrules on Jun 9, 2008 8:17 AM EDT
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PrintAs I was watching Baseball Tonight last night, Peter Gammons mentioned that the Cubs are looking for another SP. He mentioned Randy Wolf by name and someone else and then mentioned Gil. He wondered if the Cubs ownership would allow them to trade for someone with that much money remaining on their contract. Now the rest of his contract after this year, I believe, is 3/33 million. If we do trade Meche that would free up quite a bit of $ for potential free agents. I also think that Meche has a no trade clause. I would be willing to bet that he would waive it to go to a contending team. My question to you is what would expect back in return? I was thinking something along the lines of Hill, Cedeno and Gallagher/Marshall. Too much, not enough? I thinking of taking a chance on Hill in hopes that Mac could help him find his control. Discuss.
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Well personally
I’ve given up on the season. I give it the green light for the right price. A few young bats is what this team needs. While we have plenty of middle infielders that can play 2nd, the only one that can hit .294 is Grud on a tear. Hill looks like he could be a serviceable swingman right now. I’d rather have Gallagher than Marshall.
If we could get those 3 I would say yes hands down.
Pecota, watch over us.
his contract is not 3/33 left
the deal was backloaded and is 3/35 09-11. not a big difference. i seriously doubt this trade is desired from either end. GMDM signed meche for a reason and last thing he is gonna do is trade the 2nd best starting pitcher on our roster
Agreed
I don’t know what the Cubs are offering, but if the Cubs are willing to take on a substantial portion of Meche’s contract as well as offer at least 2 close to MLB ready prospects, no doubt GMDM has to jump on that. The problem with this, I think, is that Meche’s value is at a real low. He’s been highly inconsistent this season, and it’s only June. If the Royals do decide to trade Meche, I would give him more starts and try to maximize the return value prior to the trading deadline.
In retrospect, Dayton should have shopped Meche during the offseason, when his value was at its peak and teams were scrambling to find proven starting pitching (witness Carlos Silva’s absurd 4 years/ 48 mm contract). Hindsight is always 20/20 however, and I think if Dayton would have traded Meche in the offseason the move would have caused an uproar of backlash amongst Royals fans. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. That’s the game of russian roulette that comes with running a baseball team.
True. Blue. Third Place in 2008.
It may make some baseball sense
But I think trading a big free agent we just signed would be a poor PR move by management. The common fan will think “this team cannot afford to keep its high priced players and is not serious about winning.”
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
are there free agents to be out there
worth spending that kind of savings on?
Success is counted sweetest by those who ne'er succeed. - Emily Dickinson
Emil Brown
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by Matt Klaassen on Jun 9, 2008 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe
But I’d rather lock up Ross Gload, Joey Gathright and Tony Pena to long term deals.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Leave aside $50,001 to bring back Huber, too
(longing sigh)
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by Matt Klaassen on Jun 9, 2008 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I doubt Hill or Gallagher would be available for Meche
Why pay $40+ million for the next 3.5 years for a guy nearing the end of his peak when you already have essentially the same guy, only younger and under team control for four or five more years?
Nah, Lou just likes good players
Every starter on his World Series champion Reds was under 30 except Tom Browning, who was 30.
Um...
Because the Cubs haven’t won a world series in 100 years, have a legitimate shot to win it this year, and Meche is better than Hill (BY FAR THIS YEAR) and Gallagher.
It’s simple. Don’t over analyze it.
Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.
Gallagher has been better than Meche this year
and the Cubs are going to look beyond Hill’s one bad month earier this year. The Cubs are going to over analyze the deal. This isn’t Playstation baseball.
It's called "win-now"
I’m not saying this trade would or could happen, but contending teams trade future potential for certain immediate production all the time.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jun 9, 2008 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
But in this particular instance, the immediate production offers little or no difference
Gallagher is outpitching Meche right now, and Hill has essentially been a left-handed version of Meche over his 300+ IP in the majors. This is not a “trade the hot AA prospect for proven major leaguer” scenario.
True
If Gallagher keeps pitching this well through July and if they are confident in that continuing, then they would have no interest in trading him. They could easily trade for Meche, but they won’t subtract a key regular to add anyone. Hill is a possibility, as he has been awful this year and they would have Meche for multiple years.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jun 9, 2008 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
If the Royals are going to win in the next few years they need good starting pitchers
Trading Gil away just is a talent drain from the 2008-2011 rosters in exchange for risk and cash. The Royals have plenty of risk and cash as it is. What they need is good players.
I would hate to see the Royals trade Gil away unless they received a ton in return. Like a van load of A and B prospects, ... or Fukudome. But that last part goes without saying.
www.rockchalktalk.com for pretty good KU baseball coverage
Still got Fukudome-fever?
That OBP is nifty, but I’m surprised he hasn’t hit for more power.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
by NHZ on Jun 9, 2008 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions
SLG update
Fukudome .425
Guillen .473 (before today’s HR)
And Fukudome is in a tremendous power park. His power drop off from Japan is very common for players making that switch.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jun 9, 2008 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Certainly you can't still believe,....
oh never mind.
www.rockchalktalk.com for pretty good KU baseball coverage
Yeah, I still wish he were a Royal
.425 Slugging is roughly what I expected, maybe a notch lower but certainly in the neighboorhood.
Anyway, I see the Cubs are thinking about moving him to center field.
So he is delivering more than he was projected. Great defense. Plus baserunning. Tremendous OBP. Hits for okay power and average. The guy is gold.
www.rockchalktalk.com for pretty good KU baseball coverage
The guy is solid
If we needed a CFer, he would have been a good choice. What we needed was a power hitting corner OFer. Fukudome is 31 now. Where do you think his numbers will go in his 32-34 year seasons?
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jun 9, 2008 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Fukudome probably will not supply good power ever,
and that’s fine. He is still a great player.
In my mind the Royals don’t need a good power hitting corner OFer, they simply need good players. I don’t care if the team wins on homeruns or baserunners, I just want the team to win.
If the Royals simply needed a good power hitting corner outfielder with no other skills factoring into the decision they should have just retained Craig Brazell.
www.rockchalktalk.com for pretty good KU baseball coverage
Because lots of teams
win without any power hitters?
by I need more Esteban on Jun 9, 2008 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions
It is possible!
I want power as well, but I don’t think the Royals would be best served by being single focused on that one skill when looking for roster upgrades.
www.rockchalktalk.com for pretty good KU baseball coverage
I definitely agree it's possible,
but, I don’t feel like researching that, who has been in the World Series in this decade with no Power Hitters?
by I need more Esteban on Jun 10, 2008 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Craig Brazell was projected, at his best,
to OPS 740. Guillen will comfortably outdo that.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
by NHZ on Jun 9, 2008 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I expect he will, but Brazell probably has as much HR power as Gullien
Obviously Guillen is the better player, but if the only criteria is power hitting, Craig Brazell fits the bill.
The point I am making here is that the Royals do not need a good power hitter, they just need good players in whatever form they become available.
www.rockchalktalk.com for pretty good KU baseball coverage
Obviously it is not the only criteria
First off, to say that Brazell has as much HR power as Guillen is silly and baseless. Have you seen how Brazell hit throughout his professional career, particularly in the majors? He had a bit PCL season and that’s about it. He wouldn’t make enough contact to hit a lot of HR’s.
Second, Guillen is a good overall hitter. He’s not a very high OBP guy, but he’s also not a very low OBP guy. Look at his track record. In recent years, he’s usually been a .350ish OBP guy, plus good power. And I’m not talking about a nebulous power skill. I’m talking about real, meaningful power, as measured by SLG. Guillen has it. Fukudome does not. The Royals have multiple players getting on base at a decent clip at the top of the order. They desperately needed someone with some power to drive them in.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jun 9, 2008 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Long story short
I’m as big of a fan of OBP as anyone and more than most. But I think a team needs balance. The Royals were and are longer on pretty good OBP guys than pretty good SLG guys. There was and is a lot of station-to-station hitting and guys getting stranded on base. Both last offseason and right now (and next offseason), the Royals need(ed) more power more than anything else. We can’t keep getting 8 hits and 1 or 2 runs. We need more power, period (and I’m not talking about a guy with a good IsoP who can’t make contact; I’m talking about productive power; I’m talking about SLG).
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jun 9, 2008 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Such as Jose Guillen?
Guillen HAS been a good hitter overall more often than not. Brazell would struggle to OBP .290.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
No, this team needs more speed and defense!
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jun 10, 2008 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
was I hallucinating?
or was there an extended debate around here regarding the alleged “undervaluing” of BA as a metric for offensive performance?
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by Matt Klaassen on Jun 10, 2008 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Can we really
NOT talk about that? It wasn’t so much a debate as a clinic.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
I find it both interesting and sad...
...that every year I have to get into some debate with someone on some website or message board about the value of the batting average statistic. I don’t mind if someone inquires about why I think BA is a really poor stat to use to evaluate any player. But seriously arguing that one can or should evaluate a player based on BA or that it is more meaningful than OBP or SLG is, at this point, similar to arguing against evolution.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jun 10, 2008 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
How well does a player need to hit to be a "great player"?
Is an .823 OPS corner OFer in the weaker league in a hitter’s park really a “great player”? Is his defense enough to make that merely ok OPS into a “great player”?
If the Royals simply needed a good power hitting corner outfielder with no other skills factoring into the decision they should have just retained Craig Brazell.
Yeah, except for the fact that there was no reason to believe Brazell would hit well (for power or not) in the majors.
So you think what the Royals needed was an OFer with good OBP, good defense, and little power? We have enough of those. We needed power. We still need more.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jun 9, 2008 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Neither Guillen nor
Fukudome are “great players.” They’re both “good players” are they’re above average corner outfielders.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
I think what makes Fukudome better than just "good"
are the other factors. Great defense. Plus baserunning. Those skills added to an OPS over .800 and you have at least a very good player, if perhaps not a great player.
www.rockchalktalk.com for pretty good KU baseball coverage
by James Quinn on Jun 9, 2008 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'll give you "very good" on both players
They are both very good, but with different skill sets.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jun 9, 2008 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Jury still out on Fukudome
Guy has only played 2 full months of MLB. He has a while to go before his is considered a great player. Yes he had a good April but lets wait and see on this guy. His .592 OPS away from Wrigley isn’t too impressive just yet.
He might turn out to be great but I bet he settles into that .750-790 OPS. We already have two of those guys Teah/DDJ. As we all know that is far from great.
Billy at worst will be Sean Casey jr.
Just not convinced that the Cubs have what KC is missing
I am underwhelmed with Hill, Gallagher, Cedeno, Pie or Patterson. Don’t see a Grade A prospect in the bunch. Pie has always had big reputation but hasn’t delivered. He might be a buy low type. KC and the Cubs aren’t a good match.
I would tend to agree, although Gallagher has impressed me some
Pie’s weak hitting is still a bit of a disappointment, especially compared to his light offensive output during parts of 2007. But he’s still young.
And FWIW, this is all a moot point—Bob Dutton at the Star pointed out that Meche has a complete no-trade clause, and he is quoted as having no interest in waiving it.
The Cubs need Meche more than KC needs to trade him
After looking at their minor league prospects. I just don’t see it as being worth it. Meche is a inning eater, an expensive one at that but at lease he does do that. KC needs bats and Chicago doesn’t have much to choose from in that area. Here is a list of their top 10 prospects.
1. Josh Vitters, 3b (prob off the table )
2. Geovany Soto, c/1b (off the table)
3. Tyler Colvin, of (23yo .235/.308/.356 Double A)
4. Jose Ceda, rhp
5. Sean Gallagher, rhp
6. Donald Veal, lhp
7. Josh Donaldson, c (22yo .205/.278/.352 Low Class A)
8. Jeff Samardzija, rhp
9. Tony Thomas, 2b (21 yo .279/.324/.437 Adv A)
10. Kevin Hart, rhp
Only Tony Thomas has been actually able to hit when on the field the others are projects in the making and at ages at their levels where they should be producing except for Vitters of course and I doubt they would trade him already. KC doesn’t really need arms so I think they need to find another dance partner if they are looking to trade Meche.
Billy at worst will be Sean Casey jr.
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