Royals Review: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Sports blogs for fans, by fans.
Around SBN: Cal RB Jahvid Best Seriously Injured, Carted Off Field

Match Made In ______?

So the Mariners released Richie Sexson.  The Royals could maybe possibly use a first baseman with power.  Boy could they ever.  Sexson ~had~ power.  Check out his history:

SEASON TEAM G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
1997 Cle 5 11 1 3 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 .273 .273 .273 .546
1998 Cle 49 174 28 54 14 1 11 35 6 42 1 1 .310 .344 .592 .936
1999 Cle 134 479 72 122 17 7 31 116 34 117 3 3 .255 .305 .514 .819
2000 Cle 91 324 45 83 16 1 16 44 25 96 1 0 .256 .315 .460 .775
2000 Mil 57 213 44 63 14 0 14 47 34 63 1 0 .296 .398 .559 .957
2001 Mil 158 598 94 162 24 3 45 125 60 178 2 4 .271 .342 .547 .889
2002 Mil 157 570 86 159 37 2 29 102 70 136 0 0 .279 .363 .504 .867
2003 Mil 162 606 97 165 28 2 45 124 98 151 2 3 .272 .379 .548 .927
2004 Ari 23 90 20 21 4 0 9 23 14 21 0 0 .233 .337 .578 .915
2005 Sea 156 558 99 147 36 1 39 121 89 167 1 1 .263 .369 .541 .910
2006 Sea 158 591 75 156 40 0 34 107 64 154 1 1 .264 .338 .504 .842

Could Sexson rediscover his power under the tutelage of Mike Barnett?  Could he at least be a stopgap---a worthy experiment?  Would a reunion with Guillen help---Guillen (hah!)?  Would Sexson help with the team's leadership void?  Tune in below for answers.  PS/Update - Every comment should begin with Heaven, Hell, or Purgatory. - TL

0 recs  |  Comment 135 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

if it gets ross gload off the team...

im all for it. He’s really tall which is awesome

TPJ...you're dead to me

by billybeingbilly on Jul 10, 2008 3:25 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Tall is...

...good when one is a first baseman. – TL

by timlacy on Jul 10, 2008 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

semi-jinx

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Jul 10, 2008 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

(so... many.... jokes... can't... think....)

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Jul 10, 2008 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

they're the same place as his 07-08 bat

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Jul 10, 2008 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I left them off...

...because they stink. They weren’t useful to me. – TL

by timlacy on Jul 10, 2008 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hope DMGM isn't using that method of player evaluation

(winky face)

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Jul 10, 2008 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But could Barnett...

...help a guy like Sexson? Is it worth a shot? I mean look at this history. – TL

by timlacy on Jul 10, 2008 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

theres at least been a history of awesomeness with sexson...he's not THAT old...

so, that puts him ahead of like half of our lineup

TPJ...you're dead to me

by billybeingbilly on Jul 10, 2008 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

His skills are gone now, and they went away two years ago

Unathletic, low contact, high strikeout, moderate walk hitters tend to fall off a cliff in their early 30s. Sexson’s two top PECOTA comps are Cecil Fielder and Dale Murphy.

by Gopherballs on Jul 10, 2008 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

How does PECOTA account...

...for improved nutrition and exercise via team trainers over the past 25-30 years—-almost a quarter century? I mean, comparing someone today to Dale Murphy is a pretty hazardous endeavor. – TL

by timlacy on Jul 10, 2008 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Uh, Murphy was in...

...his prime in the early 1980s. And there have been a lot of improvements since. Anyway, the thrust of my comment above was whether PECOTA accounts for environmental changes or just ballparks. – TL

by timlacy on Jul 10, 2008 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Murphy played until 1993

He was Sexson’s age in 1989. They knew about nutrition and exercise then too.

And no, PECOTA does not take into account the new flavors of Gatorade introduced since 1989:

PECOTA compares each player against a database of roughly 20,000 major league batter seasons since World War II. In addition, it also draws upon a database of roughly 15,000 translated minor league seasons (1997-2006) for players that spent most of their previous season in the minor leagues. (When minor league comparables are used, they appear in ALL CAPS). PECOTA considers four broad categories of attributes in determining a hitter’s comparability:

1. Production metrics—such as batting average, isolated power, and unintentional walk rate for hitters, or strikeout rate and groundball rate for pitchers.

2. Usage metrics, including career length and plate appearances or innings pitched.

3. Phenotypic attributes, including handedness, height, weight, career length (for major leaguers), and minor league level (for prospects).

4. Fielding Position (for hitters) or starting/relief role (for pitchers). PECOTA doesn’t require that a comparable hitter play the same defensive position; it is a factor that is evaluated along with many others, and assigned a relatively substantial weight. Consideration is also given to the ‘similarity’ between two positions; for example, a shortstop will be compared to a second baseman before he is compared to a left fielder. In most cases, the database is large enough to provide a meaningfully large set of appropriate comparables. When it isn’t, the program is designed to ‘cheat’ by expanding its tolerance for dissimilar players until a reasonable sample size is reached.

PECOTA Glossary on Comparable Players

by Gopherballs on Jul 10, 2008 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

does Ken Harvey play into any of them?

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Jul 11, 2008 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gopherballs: It's not a question...

...of knowing about nutrition and exercise--of course they’ve known about it!-but of improvement.. Is this clear? The issue is whether PECOTA can account for career prolongation. Based on your excerpt above, it can’t—and it doesn’t. – TL

by timlacy on Jul 10, 2008 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry about...

...the weird italics. That’s a slip-up, not an emphasis. – TL

by timlacy on Jul 10, 2008 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You Were Yelling

Anyway, even if unintentional.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jul 10, 2008 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you yell in...

...your mind, can anyone hear it? – TL

by timlacy on Jul 10, 2008 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exercise and nutrition have nothing to do with Sexson's collapse

Or Dale Murphy’s for that matter. His bat speed is gone, and no amount of jamba juice boosters or pilates is bringing it back.

And really, what improvements are you talking about? Sure, the treadmills in 1989 did not have a place to hold your iPod (or Discman), but they still worked just fine.

by Gopherballs on Jul 10, 2008 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

Really, a wane in bat speed his killed Sexson’s production in a way that often happens.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 12, 2008 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i dont think cecil knew about diet coke and regular cheeseburgers intead of doubles....

sexson doesnt appear to have that problem. He may very well be done, but comparing him to cecil fielder doesnt really seem too legit to me.

TPJ...you're dead to me

by billybeingbilly on Jul 10, 2008 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So, how fat a guy is means more than the factors PECOTA considers?

And if you do not like Fielder, how about Dale Murphy, Jose Canseco, Deron Johnson, Boog Powell, Larry Parrish, John Mayberry, Kent Hrbek, Eric Karros, Ryan Klesko, Carlos Delgado, and a bunch of other guys whose careers fell apart by age 35?

by Gopherballs on Jul 10, 2008 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

those are better comparisons...

but it seems like you’re cherry picking on his list of comparables…

willie stargel is his number 2 comp…and was a great player until he was 40.

Tino Martinez is #4 and he was above average until he retired at age 37.

Klesko was good through his age 34 season.

Strawberry minus his coke season was good until he retired at age 37.

Im not saying Sexson is the savior, but he is very likely to be better than Ross Gload and it’s possible that we might get a season or two of Oakland Frank Thomas from a couple years ago when he came back from nowhere to a top 5 or so MVP finish. These are chances that the royals should take….instead of running known terrible guys like Gload out there everyday

TPJ...you're dead to me

by billybeingbilly on Jul 10, 2008 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

It was PECOTA's comparables, not mine

Dale Murphy, Jose Canseco, Deron Johnson, Boog Powell, Larry Parrish, John Mayberry, Kent Hrbek, Eric Karros, Ryan Klesko, and Carlos Delgado are all from PECOTA’s Top 20 Comps for Sexson, so no cherrypicking involved.

You know who is not on any of Sexson’s comp lists? Frank Thomas. Why not? It might have something to do with Frank Thomas’s high contact, high walk, and moderate strikeout rates.

by Gopherballs on Jul 10, 2008 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can Barnett build a time machine?

The history says to me (granted that I’m an amateurish amateur) that it’s not that he “doesn’t know how” to hit, it’s that he can’t hit for power anymore.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Jul 10, 2008 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oops

Can’t hit for anything anymore

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Jul 10, 2008 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd prefer to see Barnett help

Gordon and Butler.

If he can’t, what good is he to us? Our team can’t be an endless string over over-the-hill reclamation projects.

Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!

by cmkeller on Jul 10, 2008 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He can help...

...more than two players at once. – TL

by timlacy on Jul 10, 2008 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I mean, let's see that he's helping

Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!

by cmkeller on Jul 10, 2008 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My answer: Purgatory

It would depend on whether Barnett and Hillman thought they could help him? – TL

by timlacy on Jul 10, 2008 3:40 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Rather not

He’s oldish, a FA, and I’d rather see what Shealy can do.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 10, 2008 3:54 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Let's platoon Shealy and...

...Sexson at first and see who performs. – TL

by timlacy on Jul 10, 2008 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What kind of platoon would that be?

They’re both right handed.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 10, 2008 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It would be...

...a performance platoon. Whoever’s hot gets the pt. But I’m not at all pretending like this is THE answer to our offensive problems. I’m just playing armchair GM and rifling through the scrapheap for a deal. – TL

by timlacy on Jul 10, 2008 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The classic "hot-hand" platoon

Because it’s easy enough to predict who’s going to be hot, or to distinguish who’s streaking from who’s just had an 0-for-4, or whatever. I hope Trey Hillman’s been reading the Summa Contra Gentiles, because it’s going to be easier to turn a catfish from the Mississippi into herring than to run an effective platoon thusly.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Jul 10, 2008 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nah...

...4-5 games is enough to see who’s hot and cold. It’s not medieval theology or rocket science. – TL

by timlacy on Jul 10, 2008 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, just rely on your guy

Hmmm, my gut tells me to play Shealy today. He is hot. Oh wait….that’s indigestion.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 10, 2008 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hey, at least...

...Sexson has proven he can do it at the ML level. Shealy might yet be just a AAAA player. – TL

by timlacy on Jul 10, 2008 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And lately

He’s proven he can’t do it at the ML level. We don’t know what Shealy is this year.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 10, 2008 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

A change in...

...scenery didn’t hurt Edmonds. – TL

by timlacy on Jul 10, 2008 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yay!

One guy resurrected his career when it seemed done.

Maybe we should sign Juan Gonzalez too! He was a two time MVP!

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 10, 2008 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm just showing...

...optimism in our coaching staff (which admittedly seems unwarranted at times—-sigh).

Wow, Gonzalez was a waste here, wasn’t he? But I think his problem was more attitude than talent. Didn’t St. Louis have him in ST this year? He’s fooled a lot of folks. – TL

by timlacy on Jul 10, 2008 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Our coaching staff

isn’t going to bring back Sexson c. 2005.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 12, 2008 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

A devastating righty-rightly platoon

How many washed-up/mariginal prospect 1bs/DHs does a team like the Royals need to have?

I understand the attraction to Sexson, but I’m just not sold on it. I think the pro-Sexson people need to give at least one positive argument from recent season that indicate that there’s positive potential there. “Maybe Barnett can help him” or “he’s not as fat as Cecil Fielder” or “he was good 2 years ago” don’t meet that requirement.

Geez, I’ll even fish one up for you: he actually OPSed .875 on the road this year.

But that was only in about 37 games, and he sucked at home. In 2007 he sucked on both home and the road, although on the road in 2007 he did out-OPS Tony Pena, Jr.

If the Royals didn’t/don’t think Frank Thomas and Barry Bonds are worth the time, then Ritchie Sexson sure as heck isn’t.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Jul 10, 2008 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Sorry for the bad typing

eating potato chips and laptops don’t mix

Maybe I should actually do work instead of spending the day like Comic Book Guy

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Jul 10, 2008 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wish we had a marginal 1B prospect.

Instead we have Gload, sub-marginal 1B prospect.

This space intentionally left blank.

by marbotty on Jul 11, 2008 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can't we give our own

garbage (Shealy) a shot before we bring in someone else’s?

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 10, 2008 4:26 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The problem is...

...that, in terms of power, all we really have is optimism and garbage at the first-base position. – TL

by timlacy on Jul 10, 2008 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Which is exactly what Sexson

would be if we gave him a shot. He sucks.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 10, 2008 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

For the pessimists:...

...Look what Gerald Perry and Lou Piniella did with Edmonds. He’s older than Sexson, I believe. Could we do this too? – TL

by timlacy on Jul 10, 2008 4:33 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Are you implying

Steroids?

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 10, 2008 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No Hablo...

...your post. Explain further. – TL

by timlacy on Jul 10, 2008 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Eh

I don’t like it…Sexson seems done

by I need more Esteban on Jul 10, 2008 4:43 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

why not give a guy a shot these last two months....

people are clamoring for Shealy who hasnt really dont that much at any level…once you normalize those crazy colorado springs stats. Shealy sucks. Shealy hasnt ever been good. What is it going to hurt for us to give sexson 150 ABs late in the season…outside of butlers development at 1b…which isnt happening anyways.

TPJ...you're dead to me

by billybeingbilly on Jul 10, 2008 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Whats the upside though?

If he happens to hit well, we maybe win a few games more. Then Sexson has resurrected his career and signs with someone else. Yippee, that was a great three months Richie.

Shealy is out of options next year. Either we see what we have with him or we risk losing him to waivers. This is our time to find out definitively if he’s a AAAA hitter or a legit power hitter. There is much to be gained, and not much to be lost.

With Richie, there is not much to be gained, and not much to be lost.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 10, 2008 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

i just dont get the infatuation with shealy....

he’s ALWAYS played in great hitters envivronments…always been about two years too old for the league. His numbers this year in Omaha arent even good. The only upside I can possibly see to bringing shealy up here is to see if Kila hits in omaha

TPJ...you're dead to me

by billybeingbilly on Jul 10, 2008 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

No infatuation

just realistically thinking he might hit a home run or two.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 10, 2008 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

See below.

I forgot to reply here. – TL

by timlacy on Jul 10, 2008 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

It does nothing for us long-term and probably nothing short term

by I need more Esteban on Jul 11, 2008 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If Sexson found...

...his stroke here, it could buy time for our #1 draft pick? I like Hosmer better than Shealy anyway. – TL

by timlacy on Jul 10, 2008 4:55 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Sexson is a free agent this fall

And I would not want us to sign him to any kind of long-term deal. Hosmer won’t be in Kansas City until 2011, at the earliest.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 10, 2008 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If I had any kind of...

...vision for a reinvigorated Sexson, it was for about 2 years or so. Short term. – TL

by timlacy on Jul 10, 2008 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you had to vote one way or another...

Is a washed up Sexson better or worse than curren Gload?

by Grace's Dad on Jul 10, 2008 5:33 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

that's a better question

just quickly looking at their stats,

sexson’s ops is .696 and gload’s is .666

ops+ is 90 vs 78

11 vs 1 HRs

so… this convinces me that sexson might be an upgrade over gload… but he’s not great enough or young enough… so there’s no real reason to block younger players

by AtTheWall on Jul 10, 2008 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

3 HRs is fine for a corner infielder

This space intentionally left blank.

by marbotty on Jul 11, 2008 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

How about this reason

If they sign him, and he beat the odds and regained his stroke somewhat, wouldn’t the Royals qualify for a compensation draft pick when he became a free agent?

Wouldn’t that be worth a pro-rated minimum salary for the rest of the year, especially considering that he is likely to be at least a marginal upgrade over Gload?

by loyal2sdad on Jul 10, 2008 6:18 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Very unlikely for two reasons

(1) Sexson is very unlikely to qualify as a Type A or B free agent.

(2) Even if he did qualify, the Royals would not offer him arbitration and risk paying him around $15 million next year.

by Gopherballs on Jul 10, 2008 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

THE major impediment...

...to doing anything with Sexson is that 15 million salary. – TL

by timlacy on Jul 10, 2008 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

that's why i don't understand the resistance to the idea

the royals literally have nothing to lose (except games, but they’d do that anyway with Gload.)

Even in Sexson’s craptacular state, he’s still a better hitter, and would cost us less than Gload is costing us this year. (Assuming we waive him, and someone picks him up.)

This space intentionally left blank.

by marbotty on Jul 11, 2008 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

because we aren't trying

to “win now” so Sexson on this roster wouldn’t make any sense even if he could contribute…which he can’t.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 11, 2008 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If they're going to sign someone like this, it should be Bonds way before Sexson

at least that’s how I look at it

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Jul 11, 2008 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

They should sign you

before they sign Sexson.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 11, 2008 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

but not you

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Jul 11, 2008 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I already lifeguard

I don’t need the money.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 11, 2008 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

that's right

money, babes, free sun screen…

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Jul 11, 2008 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's where it's at

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 12, 2008 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

SEXSON NOW

This space intentionally left blank.

by marbotty on Jul 11, 2008 9:07 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

If we aren't bringing up Shealy

and Butler isn’t going to “learn” 1B at the ML level, then I see no problem with taking a flyer on Sexson.
1. He’s wouldn’t be “blocking” young guys from playing. Moore and Hillman are doing a fine job at that themselves, thank you very much.
2. He hasn’t lost a “power bat”. He’s got 11 HRs (which would all but lead the Royals). And we have no one on our bench with any power at all.
3. He’s doing fine against lefties. .344/.423/1.046. Smallish sample size, which begs the question why the Ms didn’t have him in more games against lefties? He’d be a fine platoon with Gload; Ross would be better off just trying to get hit by a pitch against lefties. They are both batting well over .300 against the opposite hand pitcher.
4. We’ve got cash on hand and can afford the roster spot. If signing Sexson meads DFA Pena, I think this deal would have even more fans.

by Big Guy on Jul 11, 2008 12:47 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Wait...
2. He hasn’t lost a "power bat". He’s got 11 HRs (which would all but lead the Royals). And we have no one on our bench with any power at all.

The dude is slugging .381, with an IsoP of .166. In his heyday, his IsoP was almost .300. Explain to me how that isn’t a power bat in steep decline.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 11, 2008 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

is ross gload not in steep decline?

and 5 times as expensive?

TPJ...you're dead to me

by billybeingbilly on Jul 11, 2008 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh,

so it totally solves the problem of Gload to sign another washed up piece of crap?

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 11, 2008 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

nobody has said that he will take us to the pennant...

but we should do whatever we can to improve the team…and sexson will improve the team…for the league minimum….and hell…who knows, he COULD turn it around

TPJ...you're dead to me

by billybeingbilly on Jul 11, 2008 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You are right

He COULD turn it around…but probably not….and it’s just another 1B/DH to take away ABs from Butler, which I think you would agree, is not a good thing.

by I need more Esteban on Jul 11, 2008 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

oh...I most definitely agree...

but its become blatantly obvious that this regime has no desire to allow billy butler to learn on the job as a fielder….might as well upgrade our first base play…and hell, maybe billy could learn a thing or two about hitting the ball hard from sexson.

TPJ...you're dead to me

by billybeingbilly on Jul 11, 2008 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sexson's defense is as bad as or even worse than Butler's defense

and the Royals are stuck paying Gload whether or not they pick up Sexson.

Picking up something interesting off the scrap heap to replace Gload is a fine idea, but what remains of Sexson is not worth the trouble.

by Gopherballs on Jul 11, 2008 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

At least Johnson

is young enough that he wouldn’t have been a completely wasted experiment.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 12, 2008 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i can't believe people would settle for gload

it is mind boggling. even if Sexson comes here and he sucks, we’re still better off.

and if he’s got two or three above average seasons left, then we’ve solved a problem in the short term, assuming he signs with us. (which is more likely, as he’d probably be more loyal to the team.)

nobody knows with absolute certainty that he’s finished. even there’s only a 10% chance that he can turn it around, it’s a “gamble” the Royals ought to take, as there’s a 100% chance that gload will never be a power hitter

This space intentionally left blank.

by marbotty on Jul 11, 2008 7:08 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Ditto

There are a number of RR folks who pretend know things that are impossible to foresee. – TL

by timlacy on Jul 11, 2008 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

As a "historian" you should know

that virtually NOTHING is impossible to foresee.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 11, 2008 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually, as an historian I know...

...that past circumstances almost never repeat themselves. The context of an event makes all the difference. That’s precisely why I have some optimism that if Sexson came here, there is the possibility for positive change. The past is a very imperfect predictor of the future, no matter what Solomon said in Ecclesiastes. – TL

by timlacy on Jul 11, 2008 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wait, I'm confused

Are you making the argument that the Royals should pick up Sexon because he was good in the past, like you were at the beginning of the thread? Because the most relevant past performance indicates a washed-up dude, based on numbers, trends, age, and relevant stastistical comparison.

But that’s certainly better than the current argument (whatever it is)—that past performance isn’t all that relevant “Contradiction” in relation to the earlier arguments might seem a bit unfair; more generously, it seems to be “in tension” with the earlier argument. So, if the past isn’t all that helpful in predicting the future, well, then there’s absolutely no reason to prefer one player to the other based on past performance. If the past doesn’t repeat itself, then, heck, maybe Ross Gload will suddenly turn into Ritchie Sexon circa 2005.

That’s obviously a caricature of whatever it is you are arguing, but then we’re right back to doing the best we can with the evidence we have—which is that Sexson is washed up.

I do understand the temptation. Sexson’s limited road numbers this season and his platoon split are the only positivese, and the pro-Sexon people haven’t even bothered to argue from that, only from “possibilities,” which are only barely better than Ryan Lefebvre’s Frank White-based optimism regarding TPJ. Anyway, if Sexson can be a good right-handed platoon guy away from Safeco—well, that’s the kind of cog that a contending team would sign, not the Royals.

Yeah, there might be an improvement on Gload (and it shows how far Sexson, who I really did like as legitimately good slugger only a few seasons back, has fallen that I feel obligated to put “might”). But, again, if the Royals are going to sign someone just to fill a 1b/DH slot for this year just to be a bit more respectable, I again say it should be Bonds, or even someone like Dan Johnson if the Rays will give him up for a little or nothing, before Sexson. Sexson offers neither confidence he perform now (Bonds) now the possibiilty, if he does perform well, that he would stick around with the Royals and maintain an average performance over the next couple years (Johnson or another older “past prime” non-prospect like him). Anything Sexson might possibly offer can be had just as or almost as cheap and with better possibilities elsewhere.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Jul 11, 2008 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually, my little blurb...

...above was given generally in isolation from all arguments above. I was primarily responding to johnfmorse making a bit of a mockery of my status as an historian.

But, yes, we can’t throw out all past performances; I just said that the past is an imperfect predictor of the future—-it could be valid in some circumstances. That is why we study history, yes? ...But enough philosophizing about the nature of history. – TL

by timlacy on Jul 11, 2008 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It would be worth it

For someone with knowledge of the metatheory and/or philosophy of social science to reflect on the “new” philosophy of social science (i.e., post-empiricist philosophy of natural science in relation to social science, economics, and hermeneutic approaches in philosophy of science) to give us an understand of the reflexive nature of statistical analysis with respect to the game. Baseball would provide in interesting case study in the application of social technology, and also a blurred boundary between social and natural science, in that it does deal with social beings (humans) in institutional relations (rules of baseball, agenting, economics, in relation to social trends), but also with the statistical analysis of human performance and behavior, i.e., both “natural” capabilities and social developed practices for maximizing them.

Oh, man, I gotta go watch Futurama.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Jul 11, 2008 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Although you drive me to mockery on occasion, Tim

I wasn’t actually mocking you there. I was more questioning a contradiction.

History in and of itself does not “repeat”, but certain trends do make projecting likely consequences and results a reasonable science. For instance, if I tell you a country with industry and a sizable and educated population is preparing for all-out war, you can make a fairly safe set of assumptions as to what will happen to that country’s economy. If the general mindset of a populace swings too far to the left or the right, we can make reasonable assumptions as to the effect of this swing on public policy.

And we can also project with reasonable certainty what will happen to different types of players as they age. Can we do ANY of the above with ABSOLUTE certainty? Of course not. Just as there is always order within chaos, there is also always chaos within order. Not every player with Sexson’s profile is done in his current situation. But it is BAD decision-making to HOPE maybe he’s the exception. The only way taking a flyer on him is a good percentage move is if you have absolutely nothing to lose in the bargain.

Considering the Royals have an in-house option who projects to be more useful in the long run, the Royals definitely have something to lose by making this type of move.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 11, 2008 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i argued based on his significantly higher OPS+ which takes into account the

home and road numbers and normalizes them. 90 isnt spectacular by any stretch of the imagination, but it represents a HUGE upgrade over gload with a possibility, however slim it may be, that he turns it around.

TPJ...you're dead to me

by billybeingbilly on Jul 11, 2008 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's impossible to foresee

Sexson is done when he’s been terrible now for two years in a row? We’re not dealing in absolutes, here, tim, that much should be clear. The point is that the small chance of a Sexson resurgence doesn’t seem to be worth the money with Shealy languishing in AAA. Why is it better to get an old player who probably won’t work out than to give another chance to a young player who probably won’t work out who is already on the payroll?

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 12, 2008 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But seriously,

it’s not an unreasonable argument to say that I believe Sexson is done. I do, and so I don’t see how it’ll help us.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 12, 2008 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, it's not...

...unreasonable to make a claim that he’s done. I mean, I though Greinke might be done when he had his down time. I thought maybe Grudz was done when the Cubs let him go. I also thought Affeldt was a lost cause when we traded him. My point? The beauty of baseball is that players can renew themselves in different settings. It’s not unprecedented that Sexson might regain his confidence. KC is a small market team that needs power bigtime. It’s not unreasonable to consider taking a chance. – TL

by timlacy on Jul 12, 2008 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The difference is I never called you

or anyone else unreasonable while arguing my point. This…

There are a number of RR folks who pretend know things that are impossible to foresee. – TL

...is the kind of crap that contributes nothing to the discussion while making other people justifiable angry that we should be staying away from.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 12, 2008 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Please Relax

NHZ & Others,

1. If you read my post carefully, I was talking about arguments that are unreasonable, not people. There’s a difference. The first is called debate, the second ad hominem. Please don’t take things personally.

2. I do not retract the statement you highlighted. It’s not a particularly hurtful phrase--unless one is reading things personally. The phrase was certainly not aimed at you. But it is true, nonetheless, that many here have insisted-in this thread-things they just cannot know. I aimed my collective generalization at those who believe this: “Sexson is washed up. Period.” That just can’t be known-yet. Yes, he flopped in Seattle—for the last two years. No question. But he might yet be a reclamation project.

I plead with you, NHZ, and others, to just read the comments for what they are. You seem to be seeking a level of control over the discussion here that is unnecessary. I’m not the enemy. I simply make points and defend them. When I’m in the right mood, I’ll stay on a discussion for a couple of days. Sometimes I’ll let things lie.

In sum, I’m not the problem: I never swear, never call anyone names, and never ever made an ad hominem argument. Peace. – TL

by timlacy on Jul 12, 2008 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You are right

but the thing about it is that almost every thread people are saying things they truly don’t know. When someone comments about the lineup being terrible BEFORE THE GAME, they don’t know it’s going to be terrible, they just assume based on past histories. When people say that, THIS GAME IS OVER, in the 2nd inning, when we’ve gone down 5-0, they don’t know that it is over, but based on past experiences they aren’t very confident we can come back. Then if we do, their statement seems silly….My real point is that this site is full of statements that people DON’T TRULY KNOW what will happen, it shouldn’t be relegated to just this thread and the people arguing against signing Sexson.

Further, by your logic of us not knowing what will happen, Then don’t we NOT KNOW that Gload’s power numbers won’t start to improve? I think it’s safe to say they won’t, but the same argument can be made by that logic.

by I need more Esteban on Jul 12, 2008 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

you're correct....

but ill take my chances on something that has happened in the past, happening again…over something that hasnt come close to happening in the past happening.

I’d put my money on Jared Allen getting another DUI before Mike Sweeney does.

TPJ...you're dead to me

by billybeingbilly on Jul 12, 2008 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And I agree also

Sexson regaining power is much more likely than Gload all of the sudden developing it….......Yeah, is it bad that I am kind of hoping he gets in trouble again????

by I need more Esteban on Jul 12, 2008 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

im not a chiefs fan,

so im hoping he wins defensive MVP, leads them to a super bowl, and the 3 picks the chiefs got all go down the Ryan Sims route…although i doubt that b/c i thought they did a good job in the draft.

TPJ...you're dead to me

by billybeingbilly on Jul 12, 2008 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

whose

your NFL team of choice?

by I need more Esteban on Jul 12, 2008 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i cannot stand the NFL....

im a nebraska fan…

TPJ...you're dead to me

by billybeingbilly on Jul 12, 2008 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Er

Wow, your previous comment is a bit hateful. For not liking the NFL, you sure have something against the Chiefs.

by Mully on Jul 13, 2008 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Stop telling me to relax.

How do you picture me? Flaming at the nostrils as I sit here and type?

I’m not playing thought police here, tim, and I certainly know the difference between ad hominem and debate. I’m saying that I think usually it’s not a great idea to dismiss or attempt decry an argument using diction such as “you don’t truly know”. We don’t “truly know” anything 100% when it comes to baseball, as everything we debate here deals in probability. Therefore, when you point that out in the way you did “there are people here on RR” it makes it seem like a rather unpleasant statement, given that I think we all know that none of us is the ultimate authority on baseball.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 12, 2008 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So, Sexson might be good enough for...

...the Yankees, but not the Royals? They’re willing to take a chance on him, but not us? – TL

by timlacy on Jul 12, 2008 10:35 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Boy, when you get a goofy idea in your head

it just grabs hold of you and won’t ever let go, doesn’t it?

1) The Yankees have yet to demonstrate that they’re “willing to take a chance on him.” Cashman says he’s “interested,” which is GM-speak for “Oh, there’s an available player, and I have two guys hurt, and maybe he can fill in temporarily.” Not “OH MY GOD WE MUST HAVE HIM NOW.”

2) The Yankees would be using Sexson as a bench player at best, even with Damon and Matsui injured. He’s SURE as hell not coming in to take over for Giambi.

3) You know perfectly well that if Trey Hillman were handed the keys to Richie Sexson, he’d be seeing time at DH while Butler either rots or goes back to Omaha. If your need to waste two months on a washed-up old guy who we CANNOT keep next year without paying him $15M is greater than your need to develop a promising young hitter, then your the general manager equivalent of Buddy Bell.

Maybe you’d like Jason LaRue back, too?

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 12, 2008 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

If we signed Sexson and he took ABs from Billy....thats terrible....

and a sign that we need a new manager

TPJ...you're dead to me

by billybeingbilly on Jul 12, 2008 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You know perfectly well that if Trey Hillman were handed the keys to Richie Sexson, he’d be seeing time at DH while Butler either rots or goes back to Omaha

That sort of suggests we can never upgrade at 1B or DH. Wouldn’t it be more likely Gload be DFA’d? Or Esteban?

This space intentionally left blank.

by marbotty on Jul 12, 2008 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually, I probably would've let...

...this post/idea go but I was intrigued by the Yankees’ interest.

But I don’t seriously believe that Hillman would put Sexson in the DH slot. He’s a first baseman.

LaRue? Is that the best you’ve got? The Juan Gonzalez rip above was better. – TL

by timlacy on Jul 12, 2008 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Juan Gonzalez

didn’t take any playing time at ALL away from anyone, much less someone more deserving. If I’m discussing the awfulness of taking PT away from Butler, why would I bring up Juan Gone rather than LaRue? Indeed, Tim, why do you think I mentioned LaRue? Can you possibly think of the connection there? I’m sure there was a very pointed reason I chose that option. I wonder what it was.

And yes, I seriously believe Hillman would put Sexson at DH, because putting him at first base would require benching the guy he’s got such a burning passionate man-crush on that he wishes he had 25 of him. I’m not entire certain that Ryan Freakin’ Howard could dislodge Gload from first base with Hillman in charge.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 13, 2008 5:29 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Yankees, obviously,

have cash to burn and are trying to do anything they can to stay in a pennant race. They also picked up Sidney Ponson. Did you want Ponson, too?

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 12, 2008 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We need...

...power, not pitching. So no, I wouldn’t have suggested Ponson. I will concede that I’ve always been fascinated by reclamation projects. Look what Dave Duncan does with old washed up pitchers in St. Louis. I can’t immediately think of a good reclamation coach for batting. -TL

by timlacy on Jul 12, 2008 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gary Gaetti in the mid-1990s

I remember wondering at the time why the Royals signed a washed up old guy who had just been released by the Angels. He turned out pretty well.

by jbrocato on Jul 12, 2008 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

Thanks for the supporting example. Wasn’t McRae our batting coach then? – TL

by timlacy on Jul 12, 2008 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Damn Cardinals

have all the good coaches. The St. Louis reclamation has everything to do with Dave Duncan, though, he deserves to go to the Hall of Fame someday. Wasn’t McRae our manager then? I’m not sure if I remember right, though.

by I need more Esteban on Jul 12, 2008 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know, they signed Sidney PondScum...

and I would have been upset if the Royals had done that

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Jul 12, 2008 10:42 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog about Kansas City Royals.
Start posting about the Royals »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

Small
Questions about Analyzing Defense
Glencoco_small
Mike Moustakas in the AFL Futures game
Small
JT20 Dynasty League
Royalsreview_small
KU-KSU Links: Battle for Mt. Sunflower!
Small
Royals ownership...how'd it happen?
Royalsretro_small
Royals trade Mark Teahen to the White Sox for 2B Chris Getz and 3B Josh Fields
Royalsreview_small
Rays Send Aki Iwamura to Pirates for Random Prospect
Glencoco_small
One Fan's Vision for the Royals
Img_0208_2_small
World Series Poll
N1309620122_30067195_1714_small
Offseason time

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


Managers

Royalsreview_small royalsreview