Hillman's pitching philosophy?

by JobDDT on Jul 14, 2008 2:38 PM EDT

I was so frustrated listening to yesterdays game when Hillman left Davies in until he coughed up the lead, and THEN took him out. This seems like it has been happening all year. I came to the following conclusion:

Dayton Moore leaves pitchers in until they run completely out of gas (most times coughing up the lead), or until they have 120 pitches.

He never takes people out after 5-6 mediocre innings. He ALWAYS has to trot them out for the 7th to get shelled.

Is anyone else as perturbed at Trey's pitching management this year as I am?

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there have been a few times where ive disagreed with him...

he’s left guys in too many pitches a few starts, pulled some after 80 pitches in other, used guys like Peralta in non-peralta situations, etc…however, his management of the pitching staff IMO would be his strongpoint so far. The rest of the game….not so much.

TPJ...you're dead to me

by billybeingbilly on Jul 14, 2008 2:47 PM EDT reply actions

Actually, with our young staff, I...

...like it that Hillman seems to be trying to coach some mental toughness. It’s bad enough that starters today, across the league, only really pitch 7 innings: we can’t let them slip below that, to say 6 or 5 inning starters. I don’t think, of course, that Hillman wants them to cough up the lead. I wouldn’t question his competitiveness. However, the way the staff has been worked is indicative of a young one that needs to learn all the in and outs—-including endurance (both mentally and physically). Overall, Hillman has handled our entire pitching staff better than the position players. – TL

by timlacy on Jul 14, 2008 2:49 PM EDT reply actions

Is there evidence that younger pitchers learn and/or improve from having longer outings?

I don’t have any counter-evidence, I’m just asking if there is any reason to believe this would help, i.e., objective evidence. (One might also speculate on the wisdom of longer outings in relation to pitcher health…)

Like I said, I don’t know. This just reminds me of how some people think that todays pitchers aren’t as durable as they were in the past because in the good ol’ days pitchers got more innings in the minors. I think we all know how that turned out.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Jul 14, 2008 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions

I certainly don't believe that...

...pitchers necessarily need more time in the minors. But learning has to take place somewhere. If you’ve got your best pitching coaches at the MLB level, and the young pitcher is showing signs of success (i.e. 1-2 seasons in minors), then get him up here. After that, let his performance determine his stay. But we’ve got 3 of 5 rotation spots (Hoch, Bannister, Davies) with less than two years MLB experience. With that, I think the learning curve is in full operation for another year or so. – TL

by timlacy on Jul 14, 2008 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions

Radio listeners were probably especially frustrated yesterday

Basically, the announcers presented the situation thusly (including subtext):

Here comes Clement to the plate, and Mahay’s getting ready in a hurry. Here comes Buck out to the mound, probably buying some time for the reliever. Now McClure’s out to chat, another stall tactic to help Mahay get ready. Sure seems like Trey thinks Davies is gassed! Well, hmm, I guess he’s staying in anyway. And here comes the 3-2 pitch to Clement…

by andrewmiller on Jul 14, 2008 3:15 PM EDT reply actions

Dont agree with anything you said

Why when a pitcher has 80 pitches and has dominated do you not put him back out there for 7 or 8 innings to perserve your pen… it just seems like we get more than often that our pitcher will get hit hard in that 7 or 8

Yasuhiko Yabuta is to Major League Baseball as Drew Carey is to The Price is Right

by focs on Jul 14, 2008 3:20 PM EDT reply actions

+1

by I need more Esteban on Jul 14, 2008 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions

we'd probably need to actually dig into the game logs and see what the boxes say...

by Freneau on Jul 14, 2008 3:49 PM EDT reply actions

Going into the 7th, Davies was in great shape

His pitch count was in the 80’s, the bottom half of the Seattle lineup was due up, and he had given up just one run, which was originated off of a bloop single by Willie Bloomquist. Even despite allowing a baserunner on before Clement’s homer, Davies only made one really awful mistake pitch—which unfortunately was the hanging pitch that Clement went yard on.

Besides that, Davies simply did not lose the game for the Royals. The fielding mistakes in the 9th inning and the offense’s complete inability to bring runners home (scoring just three runs off of 10 hits and one walk is pitiful) were to blame for losing that game. Given the information available at the time, Hillman absolutely made the right move by keeping Davies in to pitch the 7th. Period.

by DarthYoshi on Jul 14, 2008 6:11 PM EDT reply actions

I don't think this is a sign of philosophy

but rather it is a sign about Kyle Davies. He has been burned by two or three bad pitches a lot of times this season, usually after the 4th inning. This is very common. In fact, Brian Bannister has had similar issues. As many baseball people concede, pitchers fare much worse against opponents’ lineups the second and third times through. Does Trey leave them in too long? Possibly, but it seems to vary from pitcher to pitcher. Meche and Greinke seem to have shown the endurance and ~~grit~~ toughness to finish their starts into the 7th inning.

Never giving up on your team is what makes you a good fan.

by kcisbetterthanstlateverything on Jul 15, 2008 3:11 PM EDT reply actions