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Who will be the Royals 4th outfielder in 2009?

Just for the sake of the exercise, which of the current group of 4th outfielder candidates do you think the Royals should focus on in 2009? 

 

Joey Gathright – 27 years old.  Out of options.  Will cost either $400K or go to arbitration in the off season.

 

MLB career numbers – 1,101 at bats, .262/.326/.304, 76/103 SBs (73%).

 

Can he help the Royals in 2009?  I say he is a fine 4th outfielder but could only earn a starting job if he got his OBP to over .370 and kept stealing bases at the 70%+ rate.  In my eyes, he is fine until someone better comes along.

 

Shane Costa – 26 years old.  He burned his last option this year.  To keep him he will need to be retained on the 25 man roster next year and paid about $400K.

 

Career MLB stats – 443 at bats, .254/.289/.366, 2/3 SBs.

Career MiLB stats – 1,571 at bats, .311/.368/.474, 41/53 SBs, 131/160 BB/K ratio.

 

Can he help the Royals in 2009?  I say he probably would be about a league average 4th outfielder right now.  He doesn’t do anything well, but he hits OK, he has a bit of base speed and he is not a hack in the outfield.

 

Mitch Maier – 26 years old.  I think he burnt his second option this year so the Royals can be flexible with him.

 

Career MLB numbers – only 13 at bats.

Career MiLB numbers – 2,629 at bats, .297/.344/.457, 97/133 SBs (73%), 187/415 BB/K ratio.

 

Can he help the Royals in 2009?  I think he might be the best of the lot.  Apparently Maier is a plus fielder already, so he would be at least as good as Gathright.  Over the last three years his OBP has been .357, .320, .363, while his slugging has been .473/.428/.467, which makes him consistently pretty good.  He can steal bases pretty well, but will not rack up huge totals here.  He has no stand out skills but he seems to be overall pretty good.

 

Chris Lubanski – 23 years old.  So he is the youngest of this group.

 

Career MiLB numbers – 2,423 at bats, .280/.344/.464, 56/94 SBs (59%), 239/576 BB/K ratio.

 

Can he help the Royals in 2009?  I doubt it.  His numbers have declined each of the last two years.  He is repeating at Omaha this year and not showing much improvement yet.  Last year he OPSed .636 at AAA, this year it is up to .696.  Lubanski has the most power in this group, a skill the Royals have a shortage of in their organization, however Lubanski’s HR% has declined badly since 2005 when he hit 28.  Lubanski should be the best of the lot here, but he seems to be broken.  He can declare minor league free agency after this year.

Poll
Which 4th outfielder candidate do you think the Royals should focus on in 2009?
Joey Gathright
29 votes
Shane Costa
12 votes
Mitch Maier
69 votes
Chris Lubanski
13 votes

123 votes | Poll has closed

2 recs | Comment 55 comments

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Gathright

Everyone knows I am no Gathright fan, but at least he brings something to the table – speed. He also has shown a limited ability to draw walks. As a fourth outfielder, I am fine with a player like that.

I do think the Royals should consider carrying a fifth outfielder next season. The bench is awfully thin, and we could use a guy who at least has the possibility of hitting a home run or at least a double. A guy like Costa would fit that role well.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 15, 2008 3:01 PM EDT   0 recs

Gathright

Is a fifth outfielder at best. He can’t hit. I’m sorry, he just can’t, not enough for a fourth outfielder. Meaning—he shouldn’t be starting unless there’s a desparate injury or a double header or something. He’s a late-inning defensive fill-in and pinch-runner. He’s probably a bit better than Maier, but if some other stupid GM thinks that Gator’s “speed” is a super-duper weapon and, that at 27, he still has time to develop 5 HR/year power (one can always dream), then trade him and use Maier in that 5th outfielder role.

A fourth outfielder needs to be able to hit acceptably. I don't know if "that guy" is in the system. but  assuming that a big name isn't signed as an outfielder next year, I've been thinking than the Royals could do worse than to find a right-handed fourth outfielder who could platoon with Teahen and fill in at either corner when Guillen has multiple pulled groins, etc. Unfortuneatley, Lubanski's splits don't put him in that role. Someone who is blocked like Jhonny Gomes might not be bad, if he was cheaply attainable. Hasn't been dynamite, but he was hurt last year and Maddon hardly ever plays him. That would be a good fourth outfielder who could Dh occasionally, make the RF numbers more acceptable (in platooning with Teahan) and wouldn't kill the Royals when filling in for Guillen. It doesn't necessarily have to be Gomes - I'm assuming there are a number of guys like that out there - they won't all turn out like Marcus Thames, but even Matt Diaz-types fill that role well. Having a guy like that fourth puts Gathright more into his role (and if Gathright is gone, a fifth outfielder is something you can fill with a AAA journeyman without too much impact -- Maier, etc.)

What are Costa R/L splits like?

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Jul 15, 2008 3:15 PM EDT   0 recs

that's what she asked

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Jul 15, 2008 3:19 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

What is with the grey thing?

That was my main paragraph. Here is sort of what I had there.

The fourth outfielder needs to hit something like an average MLB guy. Gathright won’t ever come close again. Assuming the Royals don’t obtain a big-time OF in the offseason, I’ve wondered if finding a right-handed Corner OF type might not be a good idea. He could platoon with Teahen, thus “gussying up” the numbers there to make it closer to acceptable for a corner guy. He could fill in for Guillen during groin-pull season. Even DH sometimes. Someone like Jhonny Gomes might not be a bad idea, if he could be had cheaply. He’s not awesome anymore, but he is blocked and Maddon obviously doesn’t like him. He’s not awesome, but he would be good in that kind of roll - and he has lots of power. Not necessarily Gomes, of course, but I imagine that such “types” are out there - too bad Marcus Thames isn’t going to be let go that cheaply any more, but he’s the “type” of guy who could be got on the upside—how hard can it be to get a half-decent right handed corner OF who could smoke lefties at a decent rate. A Matt Diaz-type.

What are Costa’s splits like? Too bad Lubanski bats from the “wrong” side for this situation.

That’s a truly useful 4th OF, and pushes Gathright into a role he’s better suited for. Heck, it would enable a trade of Gathright—a fifth outfielder can be filled with AAA journayman types like Maier or something.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Jul 15, 2008 3:21 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Thanks

I thought about it, but it’s only this year, right? Which I can also get at milb.com. this year he sucks against lefties.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Jul 15, 2008 3:34 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes

Minorleaguesplits.com lost the historical splits in their latest “update.” Some update, huh?

Still, it does now have the semi-cool, semi-dangerous Minor League Equivalency calculator.

by Gopherballs on Jul 15, 2008 3:40 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

speaking of....

the MLEs say that Moustakas would have a 485 OPS right now…compared to our SS and his 380 OPS…thats fun

TPJ...you're dead to me

by billybeingbilly on Jul 15, 2008 4:57 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Maier

I don’t like Costa for reasons I don’t quite understand. I never thought he was a very good outfielder. I have these memories of him taking really poor routes to fly balls and turning singles into extra base hits. I wish Lubanski would live up to his draft position.

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Jul 15, 2008 3:18 PM EDT   0 recs

I vote for Costa...

I don’t think I am alone in thinking that we shouldn’t give up on this guy yet. He was a high draft pick, but has seemingly always been treated by Royals fans as an afterthought.

(I’m not looking anything up b/c 1/2 the websites are blocked by my fascist company, so if my facts are wrong below, let me know about it…)

He was called up initially after right around a year in the Minors. He’s never been given consistant AB’s in KC for an extended period of time. When I look at his career path, I think he could easily wind up like a Raul Ibanez. The kind of guy that once he gets a shot somewhere, and he gets those consistent AB’s, he could blossom fairly quickly.

I’ve said it before, the second I saw this guys swing on the scouting video the day we drafted him I fell in LOVE with that swing. He’s got a quick bat, has some quicks on the bases (obviously not Joey quicks, but he ain’t slow), and just always struck me as a guy that would do the little things to stick…I hope we see him this year in September, and next year in April

by GoBabies!! on Jul 15, 2008 3:21 PM EDT   0 recs

+1 for my new favorite Royal's phrase, "house options."

I picture a Royal’s fan saying this while shrugging his shoulders and looking down.

“Well, that guy sucked. What other house options do we have to kill time between now and October?”

www.rockchalktalk.com for pretty good KU baseball coverage

by James Quinn on Jul 15, 2008 3:33 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Teahen

or if Moore insists on keeping Teahen as a starter, a right-handed platoon partner with enough glove to spot for DeJesus during his hive episodes. Right-handed platoon outfielders usually can be found as minor league free agents, roster or salary relief trade targets, or the shallow end of the major league free agent pool. And if Moore cannot find one to play an adequate CF, keep Gathright or Maier as the 5th OF/pinch runner.

San Diego might be interested in Costa to form a pinch-hitting platoon with Huber. If Teahen is traded/non-tendered, Costa might be fine as the backup outfielder/left-handed bat off the bench as mentioned above by RoyalsRetro.

Lubanski has three options left if he is added to the 40-man roster, but should not be a candidate for a major league job yet.

by Gopherballs on Jul 15, 2008 3:34 PM EDT   0 recs

Yes!

Teahen it is.

Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.

by doublestix on Jul 15, 2008 3:35 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Ahhh come on now!

Teahen is clearly better than this fist-full-a-futility. Sure he is just barely passable as a RF as it is, but he is a league above this gang.

www.rockchalktalk.com for pretty good KU baseball coverage

by James Quinn on Jul 15, 2008 3:39 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

If the goal is to win more games than the other teams

it helps to have a few players who are more than “just barely passable” at their position. A league average or better RF plus a better than average semi-regular bench bat (a/k/a Teahen) would be a significant improvement over the current Teahen/Gathright situation.

by Gopherballs on Jul 15, 2008 3:45 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Any comment on my suggestion

the one above—if there isn’t better RF/LF that the Royals are able to sign, that bringing in a right-handed hitting corner guy to platoon with Teahan might be a good solution, at least in the short run?

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Jul 15, 2008 3:58 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I am all for burying Adam Dunn in cash this off season

and moving Teahen to the 4th OF/ Utility 1B/3B guy.

But we really shouldn’t group Teahen in with Gathright et al. Teahen brings a lot more to the plate. Great baserunning, good fielding, good OBP, some power.

www.rockchalktalk.com for pretty good KU baseball coverage

by James Quinn on Jul 15, 2008 4:02 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

+1on Teahen's immense superiority to the rest of the field

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Jul 15, 2008 4:17 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

No comment

(Other than liking the suggestion enough to re-write it with a “good enough to play CF” spin—kind of like the guy who took the clock radio and said, “hey let’s make it AM and FM.”)

by Gopherballs on Jul 15, 2008 4:18 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Well, of course that would be nice

But that’s why you keep a fifth outfielder like Maier or Gathright around, for those desparation situation. Teahan can play in a pinch, too.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Jul 15, 2008 4:23 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

With three reserve 2B on the roster, there will be no room for a fifth outfielder

A Marlon Byrd-like, soon-to-be-non-tender type would save a roster spot and a second salary. If there is room, sure, keep Maier or Gathright for pinch running and emergency situations.

by Gopherballs on Jul 15, 2008 4:41 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Are Grudz and TPJ going to be around next year?

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Jul 15, 2008 4:54 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

He's a decent player

But don’t the Royals have 4 second basemen when Callaspo gets back?

Just because they never play German doesn’t mean he isn’t on the roster. But I bitched about that on another thread. I have assumed that, if Callaspo gets his head on straight, he has the inside track on starting at 2B. If Aviles can hit OK, he’s got the shot at SS. Don’t they just need one or two more utility MIs after that? TPJ needs to be gone. Callaspo and Aviles might suck it up at Defense at SS, but still. Then they only need German OR Grudz or whatever, maybe both, but that’s only two reserves.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Jul 15, 2008 5:03 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

The "three reserve 2B" was a joke based on the current reality

Callaspo and Aviles are actually very complementary—Callaspo switch hits with Ichiro-like contact skills (but not Ichiro speed or modest power) and takes walks, while Aviles bats right-handed with a decent average/low walks/decent power profile. Aviles has held his own at SS so far, but looks like a 2B over the long-term. If the elusive regular shortstop finally comes to town, a combination of New SS-Aviles-Callaspo should be sufficient to handle the middle infield.

With Callaspo’s “injury” problem, I could see Moore bringing back Grudz for one more year, but the money would be better spent on a SS or corner bat.

Too bad German is right-handed. Otherwise, he might have carved out a second career as a Frank Catalanotto-type platoon bat.

by Gopherballs on Jul 15, 2008 5:44 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

In order to make it Teahen....

DM would realistically have to bring in TWO bats—one for LF/RF, and one for 1B. If a bat is brought in for just the outfield, then Teahen become the guy that replaces the abortion currently at 1B known as Ross Gload.

But if the lineup becomes good enough that Teahen is on the bench as a supersub, then the Royals will have had an awesome off-season.

by Top Ramen on Jul 15, 2008 5:52 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes, at least two bats

Two OF bats works too—Guillen to DH, Butler to 1B.

by Gopherballs on Jul 15, 2008 6:15 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

you mean, like

Matt Diaz, for example?

by loyal2sdad on Jul 16, 2008 2:36 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes

One particular concern with this Diaz is that he might be limited to playing LF defensively.

by Gopherballs on Jul 16, 2008 2:49 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Diaz

Should probably be limited to DH…

From what I remember he was a butcher.

Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.

by doublestix on Jul 16, 2008 3:00 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

i think it HAS to be gathright...

you’ve got a guy with 2 plus tools…which is fine for a 4th outfielder…he’ll get 6-8 ABs week and fill in on defense and pinch run.

if we have a guy go down for any extended period of time, then you call up maier….otherwise leave him down in omaha

TPJ...you're dead to me

by billybeingbilly on Jul 15, 2008 4:51 PM EDT   0 recs

Is speed two tools?

Even if you think defense is a plus tool for him, he can’t hit or get one base. No way speed and defense make up for that. And no way Hillman can resist starting him more than once a week (which is too much anyway).

Gathright sucks.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Jul 15, 2008 4:55 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

you dont think costa and maier will suck as well?

and they’ll suck with zero tools that are useful. im no gathright fan either, but having him as our 4th outfielder is the least of our worries…

hit for power, hit for average, speed, arm, defense….he’s got two of them covered.

do any of those 3 have 1 plus tool?....MAYBE maier with his defense

TPJ...you're dead to me

by billybeingbilly on Jul 15, 2008 6:12 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Gathright's defense is average at best and his power and arm grade as a -20 on the scouting scale

Costa is a better player overall with the balanced set of tools, but may not fit the Royals’ needs as he should not play center for any length of time. Maier may be better too—his defense is at least a plus, and he projects as a better hitter than Gathright. The more important point may be that Costa and Maier will make the league minimum while Gathright will be arbitration eligible.

by Gopherballs on Jul 15, 2008 6:23 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

how much more will he get in arb?...200K?

not enough to matter…and gathright has been much improved in center this year….he’s better out there in center than davey is and davey is pretty good.

TPJ...you're dead to me

by billybeingbilly on Jul 15, 2008 6:26 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Gathright will get at least a $1 million more in arbitration

Defensively, Gathright is currently 17 out 19 qualifying CF in RZR (tied for 16th in OOZ). DeJesus would be 13th if he qualified.

by Gopherballs on Jul 15, 2008 6:39 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

ehhh...a million more makes it questionable...

although i dont see how he’d get that much

TPJ...you're dead to me

by billybeingbilly on Jul 15, 2008 7:45 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Gathright vs. Maier

Power: Clearly Maier. He probably could slug about .400 at the MLB level now.

OBP: An edge to Gathright here. I assume in 2009 Gathright would probably settle in around .330 or .340. He could do better, but that is based on wishful thinking rather than likelihood. Maier is at .344 in MiLB now so he probably would be around .310ish in the MLB in 2009.

Defense: I haven’t seen Maier play but I understand he is above average. I think he might be a bit better on D then Gathright. But this probably is a close call.

Stolen Bases: Gathright. Maier has plus skills here but he is not as good as Gathright.

So the Royals could go with the guy who has a bit more power and more upside, or the guy with more speed, a bit higher OBP but who will costs more. If they had to choose only one I favor Maier.

www.rockchalktalk.com for pretty good KU baseball coverage

by James Quinn on Jul 16, 2008 12:30 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

maier was considered our best defensive outfielder by baseball america

at one point. don’t know if that changed, though

This space intentionally left blank.

by marbotty on Jul 16, 2008 1:30 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

it's changed

but only because D. Robinson has turned into a freakishly good defender. he’s got natural instincts and is extremely fast.

Maier is plenty good though.

Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.

by doublestix on Jul 16, 2008 2:07 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

or a power hammer

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Jul 16, 2008 1:54 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Definitely need

another outfielder who bats right handed.

With the current roster, if Hillman wishes to rest any of his left handed OFs, he can only replace them with Gathright, or by putting German in a position he really shouldn’t be asked to play.

This is yet another example of something Moore needs to fix. Of course, other concerns dwarf this one, so this probably won’t be addressed until we are ready to contend. (2075?)

by loyal2sdad on Jul 16, 2008 2:41 PM EDT   0 recs

The Royals can get to it after they acquire 3-4 more AAA middle relievers

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Jul 16, 2008 3:04 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Adding a right-handed OF with the potential to post league average numbers could be done on the cheap

Juan Rivera is a lot like Jose Guillen, and coming off a serious injury and with the lack of playing time in Anaheim, he might be available as a free agent on a one-year contract (unless he becomes an October hero). Nelson Cruz deserves another chance in the majors after making some improvements in his plate discipline this year. Texas would not give him away for free, but he would not cost a top prospect. Oakland has 112 different outfielders with the potential to post league average numbers. The asking price for RR Favorite Wlad Balentien is probably down considerably. And this is just the AL West.

by Gopherballs on Jul 16, 2008 3:13 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Why is everyone stealing my idea?

I assume because it’s SO. DANG. AWESOME.

League-average platoon in RF NOW.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Jul 16, 2008 3:16 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Because it is so much fun

My idea is a little different—the preference is for a right-handed hitter who could potentially replace Teahen as an everyday outfielder, not strictly platoon with him. Teahen would still play a lot against RHP, filling in at 1B/3B/LF/RF/DH and as injuries dictate. If it does not work out, a platoon with Teahen is a good backup plan. Rivera, for example, has hit RHP a little better than Teahen, even with the platoon disadvantage. The overall plan would be to get one right-handed OF on the cheap, leaving enough money or prospects to get the big bat at 1B/DH/corner OF.

by Gopherballs on Jul 16, 2008 4:14 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Do we have a list of such players who will be free agents next year?

I’m too lazy. Is Rivera? how about Gomes? thames isn’t, I’m sure, and will be too expensive for he role if he is (isn’t he 31 or 32)?

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Jul 16, 2008 4:22 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Cot's Contracts

Rivera is a pending free agent, but the best candidates may not be major league free agents because they will cost more—non-tender candidates, backups, Rule 5 draft candidates, blocked minor leaguers, decent prospects who scuffled in first major league audition, guys with the AAAA label but flashing major league skills, etc. Gomes and Thames are in their arbitration years, so they are under club control for a couple more years. Gomes might be a non-tender candidate if he is not traded, as the Rays have a serious 40-man roster crunch approaching.

by Gopherballs on Jul 16, 2008 4:46 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes, those poor Rays

with their difficult decision? “Who should be no. 40, the guy who could be pitching #4 for the Royals, or the guy who would be hitting cleanup for the Royals.”

Not so much a statement on the Royals, as Tampa Bays frightening talent base.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Jul 16, 2008 7:45 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Gathright has speed and nothing more. After four years in the majors, he’s proven to be fairly useless at the plate. You can do better than that while picking through the scrap pile in spring training.

Longlorious.
Free Kila Kaaihue!

by RATW on Jul 17, 2008 11:32 AM EDT   0 recs

Teahen

should be the team’s 4th OF/superutility player if we are going to be a contending team.

One man with courage makes a majority - Andrew Jackson

by Home Run Tony Cogan on Jul 18, 2008 11:18 AM EDT   0 recs

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