"Jose Guillen was pinch-hitting for…Alex Gordon.
Alex Gordon, who’s hitting .280/.365/.492 against right-handed pitching.
Gordon, who’s just a tick behind David DeJesus as the best hitter on the team against right-handers.
With Guillen, who’s hitting .257/.275/.420 against RHP.
I dare say it’s unusual to deliberately give up the platoon advantage when pinch-hitting in any situation, unless the batter is a pitcher or his dad used to manage the club but quit in the middle of the night or something. But to pinch-hit for one of your best hitters in a key situation and surrender the platoon advantage at the same time…I’m sorry, but this doesn’t add up.
I suspect there is more to the story here. After the game Hillman said, "I didn’t really like the way Alex was swinging the bat today." O-kay. If you say so, Trey. Gordon walked in the first inning. He struck out in the third inning – both those at-bats against a left-hander, and we all know Gordon has had trouble against left-handers this year. Against Carrasco in the fifth, he hit a soft line drive that Cabrera caught – not a screaming line drive, but certainly one that would have gotten through for a hit had it been placed better. Miguel Olivo, to that point, had a worse game than Gordon – and he’s garbage against right-handed hitters. But for some reason Hillman decided that Gordon was the problem.
There has to be more to the story here. Maybe Gordon wasn't showing enough effort, or he was insubordinate, or he made a pass at one of Hillman’s relatives. But somehow he has gotten on Hillman’s bad side. That’s the only explanation that makes sense here. Whatever the explanation is, it’s not good for Royals fans. Either we have yet another clubhouse crisis that needs to be defused, or our manager is just astonishingly stupid. There’s no way to spin this as a positive going forward.
But today, it was brilliant. Rarely in the annals of Royals history has such a clearly bad move played a more significant role in helping the Royals win."
Anyone else notice Rany trying to one-up RR with "Hillball?" How weak is that? We all know the proper term is "Treyball." As in, "Love that Treyball," or "*&&^% Treyball, we want COSTA NOW!"
Rany on the Royals, Royals Today: 7/20/2008
4 months ago
devil_fingers
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It was a bizarre, illogical and essentially indefensible move
But I reject what I have inferred from some that “Treyball” or “Hillball” means bad strategy or stupid managing. Yes there are pinch hits, pitching changes and sac bunts which I have disagreed with. In fact, I very much disagree with many of his tactical choices. But he’s a very normal, average, pretty-much-like-every-other manager. He runs a game much like Scioscia, Torre, Gardenhire or dozens of other managers would with the same personnel. I don’t mind criticisms of a manager. But I hope those criticisms are made with a recognition that these problems are not in any way unique to Hillman, that few if any managers would do things significantly different from how he does them, and that any replacement would almost certainly use the same tactics with this personnel. I’d love to have a manager who eschews the sac bunt 99% of the time, only steals bases in high percentage situations, goes strictly by the numbers in pinch hitting and relief pitching matchups, but those managers are very, very few and far between. Anybody know of any that are looking for a job? Yeah, I can’t think of any either.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 21, 2008 12:03 AM EDT 0 recs
It was great.
Very relaxing, romantic, beautiful and all that jazz.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on
Jul 21, 2008 12:24 AM EDT
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The wife and I are leaving for Jamaica on Saturday -- yes, it's a Sandals
I’m hoping to bring a little bit of that “island living” to my own “work.” and blogging.
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OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on
Jul 21, 2008 12:30 AM EDT
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You'll love it
Our resort was much like the Sandals family of resorts, but it’s called “Couples.” They have four of them in Jamaica. Ours was in Negril which isn’t far from Montego Bay. I think most of those all-inclusive resorts are pretty much the same. Good accomodations, lots of good food, as many activities as you could want. The good thing about the Couples resorts is that they are adults only, so I didn’t have the chance to be annoyed by kids. It also means that one of the resort’s beaches was clothing optional. Needless to say, neither I nor Mrs. NYRoyal partook of the clothing optional beach. Oh, and since it wasn’t a Hedonism resort (which they also have in Jamaica), there wasn’t any swinging. Or at least there wasn’t any that we knew of. We didn’t take advantage of all of the resorts activities…
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on
Jul 21, 2008 12:36 AM EDT
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My wife really wants me to take off my shirt while we're there
but I don’t think it would be fair to the other vacationers to intimidate them with my pythons blind them with my stunning, um, skin tone.
I’m there for the food. ANd the sitting around. And the drunkenings. We’re meeting some friends down there, but it isn’t that sort of thing…

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on
Jul 21, 2008 12:42 AM EDT
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I blinded everyone
I’m as white as human beings come without being albino. Unsurprisingly, I burn easily. So we packed more than enough SPF 50 and 70 suntan spray and lotion. Despite the fact that practically bathed in the stuff, I got a moderate sunburn on our first full day there. Thankfully it was only on my shoulders, upper arms and upper back. When sunscreens say they are “waterproof” that’s like TPJ saying he’s strike out proof. It simply isn’t true. It was about 89 degrees with a lot of humidity everyday there, which I dealt with by being in the water (either ocean or pool) most of the time I was outdoors. That much time in the water washes away most of the sunscreen. Oh well. It’s just so hard being a white guy.
Tip: don’t order a “Bob Marley” unless your goal is to get as drunk as possible as quick as possible. It’s basically a Jamaican Long Island Iced Tea. Something like eight kinds of liquor with an umbrella in it. The 20-somethings at the swim-up bar raved about it, but binge drinking hasn’t been my idea of a really, really good time since I was…..20-something.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on
Jul 21, 2008 12:53 AM EDT
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The Urge To
“Binge Drink” usually returns soon after marriage.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on
Jul 21, 2008 1:25 AM EDT
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Davey Johnson perhaps...
Your point is valid, but I don’t think it means that we can’t complain about Trey. Its pretty disappointing that Dayton Moore’s chosen guy has turned out to be just another robo-manager.
And, in this specific instance, it was a weirder move than simply your typical Treyball gambit. Speaking of which... who did we have get caught stealing today? DDJ (x2) and the Explosion? WTF? I don't know if Sociosca or Gardy keep sending guys a-runnin who legitimately are not good baserunners. The last few years of the Torre Era, the Yankees were actually a very efficient stealing team, posting high success rates. Dumb is dumb.
by royalsreview on
Jul 21, 2008 12:17 AM EDT
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i have no idea why that formatting got all effed up...
basically, i said something like “Speaking of which, the guys who got caught today were DDJ (x2) and The Explosion (his 4th CS of the season) and that sending poor basestealers a-runnin is not something that Sociocsia or Gardy have done”
by royalsreview on
Jul 21, 2008 12:19 AM EDT
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I have no problem with complaining about Trey
In fact, I complain about Trey. I just think it should be done with the proper perspective. When one complains about having a first baseman with an OPS+ of 72, that makes a lot of sense, because there are many, many first basemen out there who hit a lot better than that. It’s not hard to go out and find a significant upgrade there. The same is not true for managers. I would say that at least 90% of MLB managers (and probably more like 95%) are very average, traditional, by-the-book managers. Progressive, sabermetric, new-thinking, unorthodox, let’s-challenge-what-we-think-we-know-about-winning-strategies managers are about as common as five-leaf clovers.
Dayton Moore is not particularly progressive. He’s a pretty good, traditional GM. So, like the vast majority of organizations, he hired a traditional manager.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on
Jul 21, 2008 12:31 AM EDT
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yea
its really impossible to truly know…. but its also looking like Hillman has no done well with young players and loves his vets… which kinda sucks
by royalsreview on
Jul 21, 2008 12:36 AM EDT
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I think we can all agree
that, barring some amazing revelation we’ll all be waiting for, the Guillen-for-Gordon move was just unbelievable on so many levels. I kept waiting and waiting to hear that Gordon was hurt (I’m on Gameday)... but, Geez.
It worked, though. I mean, when’s the last time Gordon’s been hit by a pitch. Oh, yeah.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on
Jul 21, 2008 12:40 AM EDT
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I don't know what that means
its also looking like Hillman has not done well with young players
How so? Are you saying he hasn’t played young players enough? Or that young players haven’t performed well under him and that this is because of Hillman? I think the vast majority of managers go with vets over young players. Hillman has stuck with Gordon. He stuck with Butler for a long time until he got sent down, and has played him a lot since his recall. He’s sticking with Aviles. He’s relied heavily on young pitchers in the bullpen like Soria, R.Ramirez and Nunez. And I don’t think we should really blame a manager for the poor performance of any player.
Also - and this is completely off topic - at what point should we stop ridiculing H.Ramirez (and, by extension Moore for signing him and calling him up, and Hillman for using him)? How long does he have to pitch well before we can stop treating him like the worst pitcher in the history of baseball?
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on
Jul 21, 2008 12:46 AM EDT
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1) yea… i was talking about some kind implied dislike or frustration with Butler/gordon. I was in favor of demoting Butler for baseball reasons, but the rumblings are that it really wasn’t because of that. As for today, PHing for a guy in the 8th, in a one run game… when he’s a good hitter, well… thats pretty hardcore. Remember, this is moral universe wherein Frank Robinson breaks into tears for pulling a catcher mid-inning. Anyway, who knows whats really going on… but it does seem unfortunate that part of Hillman’s act/stance/schtick/teaching method as a manager seems to be a proclivity for thinking butler and gordon have attitude problems. If it was all the same, I’d have preferred a guy who was better with younger guys. Then again, maybe this is all a house of speculative cards, and or his PHing for Gordon was a brilliant kick in the pants that Gordon will be praising in two months… who knows
2) Ho-Ram. Yea, I’m ready to say the pickup has worked. Not so sure to say it was inspired or that it is more than randomness.
by royalsreview on
Jul 21, 2008 1:13 AM EDT
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1. I don’t think that there is any good evidence that Butler was demoted for anything but baseball reasons. Rumblings from sports talk radio aren’t even worth the paper they’re not printed on. And this PH move was stupid and indefensible but I don’t think one incident of PH for Gordon means that Hillman hasn’t done well with young players. It appears to be more of an aberration or outlier.
but it does seem unfortunate that part of Hillman’s act/stance/schtick/teaching method as a manager seems to be a proclivity for thinking butler and gordon have attitude problems.
a. We have no idea if Butler or Gordon have attitude problems or if this affects their performance in any way.
b. We have no idea if anything Hillman or Moore has done with or about Butler or Gordon has anything to do with their perception of an attitude problem. Do we have any evidence that personnel or tactical moves involving them have anything at all to do with attitude?
If it was all the same, I’d have preferred a guy who was better with younger guys.
Again, I still don’t think we know that he isn’t good with younger guys. It seems to me that from the little evidence we have, he’s ok with younger guys and vets. Pretty average.
2) Ho-Ram. Yea, I’m ready to say the pickup has worked. Not so sure to say it was inspired or that it is more than randomness.
I think it was a typical minor league deal reclamation project. Moore recognized the following about H.Ramirez:
a. He’s got pretty good stuff
b. He’s got pretty good control
c. He’s still only 28 years old
d. He’s a LHP
e. He’s dirt cheap
When the front end of your bullpen has pretty consistently sucked, spending pennies to take a shot on a guy like that makes sense.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on
Jul 21, 2008 1:25 AM EDT
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I am as surprised as anyone
to see how well Ho-Ram has worked out.
And seeing how well Moore assembles the pen I guess we have to give him a lot of credit. A lot of these teams with crap bullpens can’t seem to get anyone worth a damn to pitch for them.
Accidentally not thedude925 anymore. I do hate this new name.
by wildthang on
Jul 21, 2008 2:33 AM EDT
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Or
“When the front end of your bullpen has pretty consistently sucked, spending pennies to take a shot on a guy like that makes sense.”
Or say, when your first baseman has sucked.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on
Jul 21, 2008 9:16 AM EDT
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Ramirez is still lousy
How long does he have to pitch well before we can stop treating him like the worst pitcher in the history of baseball?
Maybe when he has a sample size larger than spring training.
Ramirez does not miss bats, he has poor command of mediocre stuff, and his performance so far is fueled by giving up no walks (which will not continue based on his history) and an ultra-fluky BABIP of .207. He is a one-trick pony with his sinker, and the good news so far is that it appears to be sinking. He might be adequate as a pitch-to-contact, low-leverage innings eater, but in terms of roster construction, that is about as important as a good fifth outfielder or an excellent third catcher.
by Gopherballs on
Jul 21, 2008 2:35 AM EDT
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It remains to be seen if he's still lousy
The stats so far do not reflect crappy pitching. But it is clearly a small sample size. No one expects him to maintain this low of an ERA or FIP. But so far he does appear to be a more than competent front of the bullpen pitcher. Even when he regresses from his current numbers, he may well continue to be a decent low leverage reliever.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on
Jul 21, 2008 2:47 AM EDT
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Back to the manager issue
I guess Ned Colletti has kind of pushed Jim Bowden to the background, but it strikes me as odd that Bowden, of all people, hired the first manager (Manny Acta) that I know of that publicly admits to reading and liking Prospectus, shows familiarity with VORP, etc.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on
Jul 21, 2008 12:56 AM EDT
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Also
I thought our robot manager idea was really great and has serious potential. I’m thinking it’d be a baseball cross between Wall-E and Pimpbot 5000. Can we get a Royals uni ‘shopped onto this guy?

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on
Jul 21, 2008 1:03 AM EDT
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I was thinking Johnny Five from "Short Circuit"

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on
Jul 21, 2008 1:14 AM EDT
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I want Hedonism Bot

Accidentally not thedude925 anymore. I do hate this new name.
by wildthang on
Jul 21, 2008 2:34 AM EDT
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I never realized, until this moment, that the Futurama writers were such Sidney Ponson fans
I like both suggestions, but PimpMan 2008 is still it.
“I pinch-hit for Gordo,
Turn out Ozzie like a fat ho”
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on
Jul 21, 2008 10:21 AM EDT
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Just don't mess with his Jose
Or he’ll cut you.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on
Jul 21, 2008 10:45 AM EDT
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Congrats on getting hitched!
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on
Jul 21, 2008 10:42 AM EDT
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Thanks :)
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on
Jul 21, 2008 11:07 AM EDT
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There is a difference with this Royals team
We allow other teams to lose games. In past years, if another team played crappy enough to lose, we’d usually “out-crap” them and blow it. This year, we seem to allow teams to blow it against us, which is what non-groin-grabbingly bad teams do.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 21, 2008 9:17 AM EDT 1 recs
+1
If the Royals had lost this last game (i.e., if Guillen hadn’t gotten hit, or had somehow failed to throw out Wheels Pierzynski, or something), fans could legitimately say that the talent was there, that Hillman lost the game. That wasn’t as true in the recent past.
Still, to expand the Hillman discussion beyond the Gordon/Guillen incident - I think all the outs given away on the bases are exceptional. Having Chone FIggins or Carlos Beltran get caught once on the bases is understandable - those guys are excellent basestealers. This game didn’t show ambiguous things like “bad plate discipline,” since it isn’t clear how much we should credit/blame Hillman (or even McClure) for that. But Having David DeJesus get caught twice and G-Load once, especially against a struggling pitcher who’s giving up walks and XBHs left and right, and in situations where the Royals are up (not to mention the “brilliant” Guillen pinch-hit-by-pitch)—that’s just bad managing, even by traditional standards. I’m not saying he should be fired this morning or whatever, but it was just bad. Dusty Baker, Grady Little in the 2003 ALCS bad (at least for one game). And the baserunning stuff isn’t atypical, either.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on
Jul 21, 2008 10:19 AM EDT
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"Atyptical" for the Hillman-led Royals, that is
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on
Jul 21, 2008 10:20 AM EDT
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AJ is really bad at throwing out runners
He’s thrown out just 19% all year. So I guess I understand taking some gambles. But Ross Gload? That was beyond insane.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 21, 2008 10:44 AM EDT 0 recs
Not an opinion on H-Ram, but a prediction
Don’t know if I agree, but I’m predicting this roster move today:
Nunez activated, Bannister sent to Omaha.
H-Ram inserted in the rotation.
Bale activated later this week, with either Gobble waived or traded, or Peralta sent down.
by loyal2sdad on Jul 21, 2008 12:04 PM EDT 0 recs
Bold prediction
Not crazy though. But I doubt they’d send Bannister down.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on
Jul 21, 2008 1:14 PM EDT
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Can JoPo receives texts from Omaha?
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on
Jul 21, 2008 1:17 PM EDT
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I hope so, if not, I'm sure the Star will kick in for a different plan
I kind of feel bad… I wonder if they still text, and, if so, if some of the joking about it got back to him so he stopped putting it in his columns.
That’s probably not the case. Some things are just too personal.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on
Jul 21, 2008 1:25 PM EDT
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Kaegel knows all; doesn't inspire confidence
From todays royals.com mailbag:
Immediately after the game, manager Trey Hillman explained: “I didn’t like the way that Alex was swinging the bat today. I thought (Sox manager Ozzie Guillen) might go to the bullpen and go to (left-hander Matt) Thornton against Gordon, but I’d already made my decision. I felt like Jose would inject a little more fear and he was able to get his back loose.”Gordon has been scuffling lately. His average, .272 on June 18, has dropped to .250. He’s had a tough month; in his last 26 games, he’s batted .185 (17-for-92) with three homers and 14 RBIs. On July 10, Hillman dropped Gordon from third in the lineup to sixth. If there was a message, that was certainly one.
Utility player Esteban German, whose three hits Sunday included the game-winning double, provides an interesting option to Gordon.
“We’ll see how Alex does,” Hillman said. “I’m not thinking about taking Alex out of the lineup but, you know what, right now he’s not swinging it very good. It’s just a fact. We need to see more energy and more contact ratio from Alex and from [Mark] Teahen. It might be a case for Hermie [German] to get in there more because he’s versatile and we’ll continue to mix-and-match depending on who the starters are.”
Hey, I like German, but he’s just an option for Gordon? Not for Gload? Not for trotting Gathright out there?
Trey, there’s this thing called the “platoon split,.” Some might say it’s a “no-brainer…”
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Jul 21, 2008 5:30 PM EDT 0 recs










